72 Transcript

072 The One About LEAN


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0:08.1

0:12.4

Welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast for
water treaters by water treaters where

0:12.4

0:16.7

we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems hello Scaling UP!

0:16.7

0:22.1

Nation Trace Blackmore here your host
for Scaling UP! and folks can you believe

0:22.1

0:26.9

it
it is 2019 it’s a new year we’ve got new

0:26.9

0:33.2

goals to set and that’s what we’re going
to be talking about today before we get

0:33.2

0:37.1

into that I want to talk about some
things that are coming up that are very

0:37.1

0:41.4

near and dear to me of course I’m
talking about the association of water

0:41.4

0:47.2

technologies annual training that we do
each and every year folks it is my

0:47.2

0:51.0

favorite thing to do I meet so many
people out there in the Scaling UP!

0:51.0

0:56.4

Nation from going to these trainings and
I also find new Lister’s because people

0:56.4

1:00.2

said hey I didn’t know there was a
podcast about water treatment but now

1:00.2

1:06.8

that I do I want to listen to the show
and my most favorite thing to do ever is

1:06.8

1:12.4

to teach proper water treatment and
there’s so many people out there that

1:12.4

1:17.5

want to do the best job they can and
they need to get more information so

1:17.5

1:22.7

they can do that and folks if this is
you that I am describing this is where

1:22.7

1:29.8

you need to be it is one of the best
training programs for water treatment on

1:29.8

1:35.2

the planet and the Association of Water
Technologies puts it on twice a year and

1:35.2

1:40.3

this year the AWT is putting that on in
San Diego California that’s going to be

1:40.3

1:46.3

February 27th through March 2nd and
we’re going to do it one more time in

1:46.3

1:53.3

Annapolis Maryland March 27th through
March 30th folks I can’t say enough good

1:53.3

2:00.2

things about this training I hope you
attend and I hope I see you there if you

2:00.2

2:05.6

see me please come up to me give me some
show ideas let me know what you think

2:05.6

2:09.4

about the show and I just want to shake
your hand and thank you for being part

2:09.4

2:16.7

of the Scaling UP! Nation folks as I said
before it’s 2019 and I hope you are

2:16.7

2:21.6

already off to a good start thinking
about things

2:21.6

2:27.1

2018 might have been a great year for
you and might have been a year where you

2:27.1

2:33.5

were learning how to do things better so
either come off a 2018 as a spring born

2:33.5

2:38.3

on things that you’re going to do to
make yourself better or keep the

2:38.3

2:46.2

momentum that you have had or keep the
momentum that you had coming out of 2018

2:46.2

2:52.4

to just make 2019 that much better so
I’m hoping that you are thinking about

2:52.4

2:58.4

some of the goals that you are going to
accomplish this year you’re writing

2:58.4

3:03.1

those down and you’re sharing that with
somebody who is going to hold you

3:03.1

3:08.3

accountable one of the goals that I have
every year is to read and for the

3:08.3

3:13.4

longest time I was not able to read
because I’m just too busy driving around

3:13.4

3:18.5

seeing clients which of course in and of
itself is a great thing but windshield

3:18.5

3:24.5

time can absolutely kill your
productivity so a lot of people enjoy

3:24.5

3:29.7

this show because they get to listen to
it too and from their customer locations

3:29.7

3:35.3

but another tool that you can use is
audible audible is a great service

3:35.3

3:41.0

because it allows you to multitask while
you’re driving folks please make sure

3:41.0

3:44.4

you’re paying attention while you’re
driving whether you’re listening to this

3:44.4

3:49.3

podcast or you are listening to audible
but if you’re driving responsibly and

3:49.3

3:55.1

you’re listening to an audiobook audible
I think is the best service out there to

3:55.1

3:58.9

do that now if you want to try audible I
can get you a free month and a free book

3:58.9

4:04.2

by going to http://scalinguph2o.com/audible and you can try this

4:04.2

4:10.7

service for yourself audible is how I
read so many books in a year and it’s

4:10.7

4:17.0

how I continue to get more information
that I can share with you on the Scaling UP!

4:17.0

4:20.3

program so I hope you try that I know
you’re gonna love it

4:20.3

4:24.5

today we’re gonna be talking about
problem solving now many of us will go

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4:29.5

into problem solving by fighting a
problem and solving it it is my hope

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4:34.7

that you are skilled are becoming
skilled to find what the

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4:41.0

ah per issue is that really needs to be
identified and then solved so many of us

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4:46.4

just don’t realize that a lot of the
problems that we’re facing day today are

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4:53.0

symptoms of an issue that if we identify
properly we can not only solve the one

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4:59.2

problem that is right in front of us but
also the 20 other symptoms of that so

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5:06.0

next time you were trying to solve an
issue ask yourself is this the underline

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5:12.2

issue that’s causing this with all
issues or is this just simply a symptom

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5:18.8

of an issue that I have not identified
yet with that in mind we are going to

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talk to Jason Berg and he’s going to
tell us about lean manufacturing and

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5:29.4

you’re thinking okay Trace why are we
talking about manufacturing when so many

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5:34.7

of us are out there servicing well I
learned from Jason that we are thinking

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5:41.0

about lean incorrectly it is a
problem-solving tool and I want you to

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5:47.6

learn what I learned from Jason Berg
my lab partner today is Jason Burtt lean

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5:52.8

production expert and Jason we’re going
to talk about all things lean and why

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5:56.7

people need to think about their
processes and make sure they’re

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6:01.0

efficient but I want to thank you for
coming on Scaling UP! and educating the

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6:05.2

Scaling UP! Nation about what you do oh
thanks for having me Trace I really

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6:13.1

appreciate it absolutely so what exactly
does a lean production expert do well I

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6:18.0

guess first of all you know I don’t use
expert very often because it’s tough to

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6:22.0

be considered one of the best I don’t
know that anyone can really put

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6:24.6

themselves there there’s always so many
other people out there that you can

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6:29.5

learn from but you know what I do is a
ling consultants our business consultant

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6:33.3

I work with a lot of different
individual businesses mostly

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6:37.6

manufacturing some service some other
companies and I use lean manufacturing

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6:43.2

to help them fix their businesses to
help them become more profitable to turn

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6:47.3

around their companies I’ve been trained
in lean manufacturing work directly with

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6:51.4

Toyota but I’ve used that process and I
kind of use it at a very broad sense

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6:55.0

across the entire business to help lots
of different companies on a lot of

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6:59.6

different industries I’m curious how did
you get started in that well I worked at

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7:04.8

Herman Miller which is an office
furniture company for 16 years in very

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7:11.3

early on back in the mid 90s they were
looking for a way to help themselves out

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7:15.5

they were struggling particularly the
one facility that I was working in where

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delivery was horrible quality was
horrible our costs were completely out

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of line and they were looking for help
and they actually connected with Toyota

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7:30.9

and basically struck up a relationship
with them where Toyota became their

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mentors and started teaching them about
the Toyota Production system which is

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7:37.1

essentially lean manufacturing here in
the States

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so I was very fortunate back in 95 to
start working with Toyota who invented

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7:47.7

lean manufacturing and I worked with
them side-by-side for 16 years and with

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7:53.3

that I created a lot of connections and
a lot of different suppliers and

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7:58.3

customers and people throughout that
engagement and I eventually started

7:58.3

8:01.1

getting in a
phone calls of people asking me to come

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8:05.8

help them that my business just kind of
got teed up I wasn’t really planning on

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8:09.8

leaving or planning on starting a
business but I believe in one week I

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8:13.6

kind of turned to my wife and said you
know I got five phone calls this week

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8:17.1

for people wanting me to help them I
think it’s time for me to to pull the

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8:21.3

trigger and make this happen that seems
like a right sign right yes that’s right

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so it just kind of happened so there are
a lot of people listening today and they

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8:30.0

either own their company or they work
for somebody who owns the company

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8:33.8

obviously and they’re out servicing
accounts and they’re in the water

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8:38.5

treatment industry so why do these folks
even need to know what lien is they’re

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8:43.2

not building cars they’re not Toyota
yeah I think that’s one of the big

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8:47.0

misconceptions I really hate the
terminology and lean manufacturing

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8:53.1

because lean or the Toyota Production
system has been applied to so many

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different industries there’s a huge
movement right now in health care many

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9:02.5

many hospitals are embracing lean and
trying to figure out how to create that

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9:08.3

that lean culture to solving problems
and I think what the reality is is as

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9:13.2

much as lean is about you know there’s
there’s technical tools and these

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different processes that are put in
place more than that it is about

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developing people and teaching people
how to solve problems

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which if you think of it that way if you
think about developing people and

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teaching them to solve problems related
to your business related to efficiencies

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9:34.3

it can really be applied to any and all
industries and I’ve been very fortunate

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9:39.5

to work in service industries and
manufacturing industries did some work

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9:43.7

on commercial farm to the point of where
we’re picking cucumbers in a field how

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9:48.8

do we process it all the way to the to
the shelf in the store so any and all

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businesses at the end of the day they
have processes that people are involved

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9:59.2

in that there’s equipment involved in
and there’s always opportunity to remove

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10:03.8

wastes or to make them more efficient
and solve problems and for us to get

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10:07.8

better so for example can we pick a
particular process in the water

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10:11.9

treatment industry and maybe go into
that and explain how we can make that

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10:15.2

more fish
oh yeah definitely well of course to be

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10:19.2

in business we all need to have
customers so let’s talk about acquiring

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a customer yeah I think that’s a great
example that you know like we were just

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10:27.5

talking about how I think lean can be
applied to any and all businesses and

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10:31.2

I’ve talked with a lot of small business
owners about you know what does that

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10:36.3

sales funnel look like what does it look
like to acquire a customer and with lean

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10:40.4

once it’s once again like I said it’s
all about problem solving right it’s all

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10:45.2

about understanding what processes you
currently are using measuring how

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10:50.5

effective they are and trying to figure
out you know what the gap is for what

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10:54.7

you’re trying to make happen right so if
you’re reaching out to you know X amount

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10:58.5

of customers 100 customers and you’re
getting an acquisition rate of you know

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11:03.4

maybe 25% of those customers or 5% or
whatever that is you know first of all

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11:08.5

you have to be measuring it to be able
to figure out how big the gap is how big

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11:11.7

my problem is if you’re reaching out to
hundreds of people and you’re not

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11:15.5

getting any obviously it’s a big problem
if you’re targeting and you’re trying to

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11:19.1

hit some specific number from an
acquisition standpoint but first of all

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11:23.5

you have to understand what that gap is
and then you can start looking at the

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11:28.5

process what are the processes I’m I’m
taking am I trying to go through social

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11:33.1

media am I going through you know email
campaign am i doing some type of

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11:38.7

marketing campaign advertising campaign
each one of those approaches can be

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looked at and analyzed and tried to
figure out what is working or not

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11:48.2

working and trying to improve it to be
able to increase that acquisition rate

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11:54.1

so I know I know that doesn’t sound like
lean manufacturing but anytime we’re

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11:59.8

looking at a gap from what you’re trying
to accomplish that is essentially what a

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12:03.5

problem is right the that’s kind of the
the definition of a problem we have a

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12:07.7

standard and we’re not able to meet that
standard so every time there’s a problem

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12:12.4

like that we can use lean manufacturing
problem-solving techniques to try and

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12:14.7

close that gap and try and improve the
process

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12:19.4

do different tests whatever we have to
do to try and close that gap does that

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12:22.9

make sense Jase it definitely does and
Jason I got to tell you I’ve never

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12:27.9

thought about lean manufacturing
shirring outside of your building a

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12:32.3

product so the fact that we can apply
that to going out and acquiring a

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12:37.9

customer what the sales cycle is to what
we’re building indoors to sell the

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12:42.2

customer I just never looked at it that
way before yeah a great example of that

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12:46.4

is if you look at a lot of people that
are using digital advertising social

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12:51.2

media advertising and they talk about
a/b testing that is a form of

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12:56.4

problem-solving or using you know which
would be you know kind of a tool that

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12:59.8

you would learn if you started
investigating around lean and trying to

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13:04.9

develop that skill set because they’re
basically saying okay I’m getting X

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13:10.6

amount of clicks when I get you know I
put this post out on Facebook and it was

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13:14.7

viewed 10,000 times then I got 500
clicks well now they’re gonna take that

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13:19.7

exact same post and they’re gonna say
I’m gonna subtly change the image to see

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13:23.3

what kind of effect I have does it
change the amount of clicks or I’m going

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13:28.2

to change the wording subtly to see how
it affects so so that a be testing from

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13:32.6

a marketing and digital advertising
standpoint you know they’re just problem

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13:36.5

solving that’s what they’re doing
they’re trying to close that gap and see

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13:41.1

how efficient they can be within that
specific task and that’s really what

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13:46.7

lean is it’s it’s teaching people how to
problem-solve how to how to frame up a

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13:51.5

problem very clearly and then take a
very structured approach to solve it

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13:55.6

wherever that is in your business well
let’s take a more traditional process

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14:00.0

that most of us think about when we’re
thinking about lead which it would be

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14:05.5

manufacturing so I’ve now sold the
client and now we have our special juice

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14:10.0

that we that we make that we sell as
water treatment wares and I of course

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14:15.2

have a process on when I need to make
items when I need to down pack items

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14:19.0

when they need to ship out to the
customer what are some things we can do

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14:23.6

with that to make that more efficient I
think the first place you always start

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14:27.9

with is where is the biggest impact to
your customer what is the customer

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14:33.7

looking for so with your current process
you kind of need to pick and choose

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14:39.6

what’s most important right now let’s
say there’s a long lead time or

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14:44.8

where the quality level is or where the
cost level is there’s probably you know

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14:48.9

one or the other that’s more important
to the client at this point in time or

14:48.9

14:52.9

the end customer that probably has more
value for you to look at so let’s say

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14:57.4

it’s costs if it’s costs then the
question is is looking at that entire

14:57.4

15:01.2

process and starting to analyze where
are the big cost factors are the cost

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15:05.7

factors in terms of time and actual
processing what are the cost factors in

15:05.7

15:11.1

terms of material is there scrap or
wastes in the process you know is it

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15:18.2

delivery expenses logistics but I think
everything from a lean perspective you

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15:21.7

have to start with the customer because
at the end of the day that’s what that’s

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15:25.7

who we’re trying to service and that’s
what’s most important great example of

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15:31.4

that is you know I I constantly have
potential clients that will reach out to

15:31.4

15:36.3

me and say I have this process that is
you know it’s messed up typically

15:36.3

15:40.5

they’re manufacturing and they’ll want
me to go to the shop floor and help them

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15:45.8

fix a specific manufacturing process but
when I start digging into it this happen

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15:49.8

multiple times as I start digging into
it what are you trying to solve for your

15:49.8

15:54.2

customer and you know most recently
probably about six months ago I had a

15:54.2

15:57.4

client say well we’re really trying to
solve lead time that’s the big thing

15:57.4

16:01.3

that they have an issue with while their
manufacturing process was probably two

16:01.3

16:05.9

days but the rest of their processes
were about was about three weeks I said

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16:10.2

well this is the last place you need to
be focusing is on the manufacturing

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16:13.5

floor oh we need to get into your office
and understand order entry we need to

16:13.5

16:17.4

understand the logistics I that we need
to understand where is the actual lead

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16:21.2

time coming from because that’s what we
should be doing to fix the problem for

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16:25.5

your customer so they were chasing the
wrong problem yeah exactly and I think

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16:29.1

that’s just another example where lean
as so many people think of lean

16:29.1

16:33.6

manufacturing and they only want to
think of the manufacturing processes but

16:33.6

16:37.7

you know no different with you guys in
the water treatment world you know I’m

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16:42.0

not as familiar with that world but of
those different processes when you stack

16:42.0

16:45.9

them up it’s important to figure out
what are you truly trying the impact for

16:45.9

16:49.4

the customer to know where to
Jason let me ask what are some of the

16:49.4

16:53.4

processes that you use to try to make
sure you’re solving the right problem

16:53.4

16:58.3

well I guess first of all is like I said
truly trying to figure out what the

16:58.3

17:03.6

customer wants right I mean that’s the
the first thing but when you start

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17:10.0

digging into a problem that problem
solving process can be very difficult

17:10.0

17:15.7

depending upon where you’re looking or
what you’re trying to solve many times

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17:19.0

you can get confused and you’re fixing
things that aren’t really going to

17:19.0

17:24.0

impact the you know the end result or
the metric that you’re trying to change

17:24.0

17:29.7

so I think it’s important to have a
clear image of what you’re trying to

17:29.7

17:33.7

accomplish so if it’s you know I’m
trying to affect cost what is the cost

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17:37.1

factor you know what is that number that
you’re trying to affect so you can

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17:41.5

measure your effectivity against that
problem so I think you know when we

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17:45.6

start talking about having some good
metrics or things in place that will

17:45.6

17:52.0

guide you – am i working on the right
thing first of all and when I am working

17:52.0

17:57.6

there am I actually having an effect on
the problem so whether that be a lead

17:57.6

18:02.8

time problem a quality problem a cost
problem you know those are all different

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18:06.4

types of problems and and there’s a lot
of different metrics can that can be

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18:12.4

underneath those headers that you can
put in place to help guide you to know

18:12.4

18:17.1

if you’re truly having the impact for
the customer that you’re hoping – well

18:17.1

18:23.7

metrics seem to be a key term in in what
you just said and was a Peter Drucker

18:23.7

18:29.1

that said what gets measured gets better
I believe so yeah who said that

18:29.1

18:32.8

all right let’s say well we’ll give it
to him somebody can ride in and tell me

18:32.8

18:36.4

I’m wrong but until I know otherwise
we’ll say Peter Drucker said it so just

18:36.4

18:39.9

by the simple fact we’re looking at
something we know it’s going to get

18:39.9

18:43.2

better because now it’s in the
foreground now we’re able to look at it

18:43.2

18:47.6

and Jason I don’t mind sharing with you
that when I work with other water

18:47.6

18:53.0

treatment companies something that I
find is that a lot of them don’t keep

18:53.0

18:58.6

score they do the day to day but as far
as doing some of the things that you’re

18:58.6

19:02.6

talking about and look
at how they’re keeping score with those

19:02.6

19:07.6

metrics they’re not doing that so what
advice do you have for them as far as

19:07.6

19:13.0

the metrics you know it’s such a
difficult thing with so many companies

19:13.0

19:19.0

of so many different sizes and it’s
amazing how many of them don’t have good

19:19.0

19:23.8

metrics in place I’m talking large
companies you 100 million other company

19:23.8

19:29.2

is that I will work with and I look at
the metrics and they don’t have the

19:29.2

19:36.3

controls in front of them to be able to
make good solid decisions what to work

19:36.3

19:41.4

on what to do next and it really amazes
me it’s it’s shocking that there’s so

19:41.4

19:45.1

many companies like that
and I think to have those right metrics

19:45.1

19:49.2

you have to be looking at a few
different things one you know the

19:49.2

19:53.1

popular thing that that everyone looks
at is financials and I think those are

19:53.1

19:57.7

you know obviously very important but
the problem with financials is those are

19:57.7

20:03.9

after the fact that it’s too late to
affect them right that the financials

20:03.9

20:09.3

are hey this is what happened last month
well that’s too late so I think the key

20:09.3

20:15.5

to developing metrics is developing
metrics that are close enough both in

20:15.5

20:21.6

real-time and at a low enough level to
the processes that are happening that

20:21.6

20:26.5

they’re giving you the feedback very
quickly as to what’s happening right I

20:26.5

20:31.2

don’t want to find out a month later
that I you know that my delivery was

20:31.2

20:35.5

horrible this past month right it’s too
late to change that path for those

20:35.5

20:39.9

customers I want to know on a daily
basis I want to know heck on an hourly

20:39.9

20:46.4

basis if I can so so I think the key to
good metrics is one as real-time as

20:46.4

20:51.3

possible and I know that’s not always a
reality to have it immediately but I

20:51.3

20:56.3

would rather know at the end of the day
how well my metrics are going then at

20:56.3

20:59.5

the end of the week or at the end of the
month and then like I said I think the

20:59.5

21:02.9

other thing is is trying to bring
metrics as low as possible everyone

21:02.9

21:06.7

typically wants to measure at the
highest level you know I’ve thrown out

21:06.7

21:12.6

lead time quality and cost those are
very much umbrella terms if you’re

21:12.6

21:16.4

measuring your
quality is an entire company in my

21:16.4

21:20.3

opinion that is way too high because
quality has so many different aspects to

21:20.3

21:25.2

it it’s difficult to guide you to tell
you whether or not you’re going in the

21:25.2

21:29.4

right direction or not same with cost
same with lead time I think you need to

21:29.4

21:33.2

bring those metrics those umbrellas and
bring them down and have very specific

21:33.2

21:39.3

metrics underneath that are tailored to
your specific business to your specific

21:39.3

21:43.9

customer base that makes sense so that
would be my advice is is turning them as

21:43.9

21:47.9

real-time as possible and as low level
as possible that it that it has some

21:47.9

21:54.3

specific value to on a day to day basis
Jason are lagging metrics useless so do

21:54.3

21:58.2

I not use the P&L anymore do I not use
the the balance sheet things like that

21:58.2

22:02.5

no not at all I mean those are obviously
you know I think critical for running a

22:02.5

22:06.7

business that’s typically one of the
first things I asked for when I come

22:06.7

22:10.3

into a business to start helping them
and evaluate them because I think it

22:10.3

22:15.8

tells you a story it is lagging like you
said it is a story after the fact but

22:15.8

22:20.2

it’s also going to at the end of the day
as a business you know that’s what

22:20.2

22:24.5

you’re trying to altom Utley effect by
being better for the customer by having

22:24.5

22:29.5

better performance so you want to see
that move as well but I want to make

22:29.5

22:34.2

sure that people understand that you
know what I do today I can’t wait a

22:34.2

22:39.3

month to find out if it was effective or
not that PL is going to be most likely

22:39.3

22:45.3

reflect many many many activities that a
business owner or a leadership group has

22:45.3

22:51.3

taken to affect that P&L not just one so
we need to be able to see on each and

22:51.3

22:55.0

every problem how are we affecting
things and if that makes sense so I

22:55.0

22:58.8

think they’re both very valuable I think
they just kind of provide two different

22:58.8

23:04.2

purposes so definitely it makes a lot of
sense but I can’t help but thinking

23:04.2

23:10.8

again of Toyota where they have the
resources to do real-time measurements

23:10.8

23:14.2

and they’ve got monitors over every
single station and they know every

23:14.2

23:19.0

single unit as its being produced for
somebody who it doesn’t have the

23:19.0

23:24.3

resources like that how do they get
real-time metrics yeah so I think it’s

23:24.3

23:27.3

you know once again it’s different with
every business

23:27.3

23:31.3

you know I think you have to develop
what makes sense for you and I don’t

23:31.3

23:37.5

ever want you know a lean approach to
become an extra burden on someone

23:37.5

23:42.8

because that’s that can’t happen if it
becomes an extra burden or extra work

23:42.8

23:47.5

most likely the journey will end very
quickly so I think the key is how do you

23:47.5

23:53.6

figure out a way to institute lean into
your daily activity so if I have a

23:53.6

23:58.6

delivery route for example you know the
question is is how do I know instead of

23:58.6

24:02.6

just using very general hey I’m gonna be
there at 8 o’clock I’m gonna be there at

24:02.6

24:07.7

9:30 I’m gonna be there at 12
how do we get more specific just even if

24:07.7

24:11.2

it’s just from a learning standpoint to
say well how long should this

24:11.2

24:16.0

appointment have lasted yeah I gave
myself an hour but should it have lasted

24:16.0

24:22.1

30 minutes or should have lasted 45
minutes in evaluating yourself based on

24:22.1

24:27.3

that because if you can say yep it’s
consistently 45 minutes but what do I do

24:27.3

24:31.1

to be able to get it down to 30 minutes
now we can look at well maybe we can get

24:31.1

24:36.5

to within an hour right so it’s you may
not have an immediate impact but I think

24:36.5

24:40.6

we have to measure at that lower level
to be able to to see where the

24:40.6

24:46.0

opportunities are to improve if we’re
just at a very general hey I want to get

24:46.0

24:51.9

seven deliveries in today there’s so
much flex back and forth where some I

24:51.9

24:58.0

may be faster someone I’m late you kind
of lose the opportunity of where is my

24:58.0

25:03.1

opportunity to improve where can I get
more efficient does that resonate tres

25:03.1

25:07.5

absolutely it does they’re they’re great
places to start definitely good

25:07.5

25:12.7

questions to ask but then we probably
need somebody like yourself to help us

25:12.7

25:16.3

guide you through that process because
again until you and I started talking I

25:16.3

25:22.3

thought that lean production or lean
manufacturing always dealt with you know

25:22.3

25:26.0

the automotive industry or you’re
building something so you have really

25:26.0

25:31.1

opened my eyes that it’s it’s simply
problem-solving yes very much so

25:31.1

25:36.0

I think you know I wish I could go back
in time at some level and be able to

25:36.0

25:42.6

change some of the terminology and
you know change how the lien you know

25:42.6

25:48.3

movement and the Toyota Production
system started spreading and there were

25:48.3

25:54.0

a lot of misunderstandings early on they
were spread you know to many industries

25:54.0

25:58.5

and and I think there’s a lot of
industries now that are missing out on

25:58.5

26:05.4

the possibilities of how lien could help
them become much better companies I’ve

26:05.4

26:10.1

really enjoyed reading some books on
this process and I can’t remember which

26:10.1

26:15.1

one I read but they gave me the idea of
using Kanban cards is that something

26:15.1

26:19.2

that you use regularly yeah definitely
definitely do you mind talking a little

26:19.2

26:23.3

bit about those because we find that
that has solved a tremendous problem

26:23.3

26:30.9

here yeah so come on is it’s essentially
the Japanese word for card so here in

26:30.9

26:34.2

the States we most of us don’t know that
so we always say Kanban cards we’re

26:34.2

26:38.3

actually saying card card but but Kanban
I didn’t know that I just said it yeah

26:38.3

26:46.8

there it goes right so it’s interesting
Kanban is essentially the way Toyota or

26:46.8

26:53.6

the lean you know industry we use to
connect processes so both internal and

26:53.6

26:59.7

external processes so Kanban is a
communication tool that has specific

26:59.7

27:06.0

information that tells us potentially
when to order something when to

27:06.0

27:11.4

manufacture something it creates a very
specific customer-supplier relationship

27:11.4

27:16.2

so if we have two machines for example
in a manufacturing process we have an

27:16.2

27:21.8

assembly line and we have a you know
welding machine welding a door there may

27:21.8

27:27.5

be a Kanban that every time an assembly
car goes by a Kanban goes to the welder

27:27.5

27:32.1

that says you can now weld another door
it controls that connection between

27:32.1

27:39.6

those two processes and gives the
process authority to produce or to

27:39.6

27:45.5

potentially purchase more product and
put it into the system so it really kind

27:45.5

27:49.0

of limits and controls the amount of
inventory between one or two processes

27:49.0

27:53.1

so common is a you know it’s a very
broad

27:53.1

27:57.6

term because there’s a lot of different
uses for it whether that be a front in

27:57.6

28:03.5

an office and we’re talking about hey
I’m order entry and I’m ready for the

28:03.5

28:08.8

next stack of ten orders from the sales
team here’s a card and give me the next

28:08.8

28:13.2

ten and I’m controlling that flow of
information or controlling flow into

28:13.2

28:18.0

manufacturing floor week you can use
Kanban in a lot of different ways and at

28:18.0

28:21.7

the end of the day you know comma and
just like all lean tools are really

28:21.7

28:27.3

there to help highlight problems so we
can solve them so if for some reason

28:27.3

28:33.3

that assembly line example I produce a
card back to the welding area and they

28:33.3

28:38.3

don’t get me the door in time I can see
the problem very quickly so now I can go

28:38.3

28:41.4

down that problem-solving path because
at the end of the day that’s what lean

28:41.4

28:45.6

really funnels down to it’s that
problem-solving process and a lot of the

28:45.6

28:50.4

tools that they use are just ways to
help us see the problems easier in the

28:50.4

28:56.0

process it really was a great tool here
and the problem that we fixed it was it

28:56.0

29:01.7

was so silly everybody has access to
taking products or pails of products

29:01.7

29:07.0

that we have but only one person was
able to do the ordering or generate what

29:07.0

29:11.5

needed to happen to get something to
come in and people would forget to tell

29:11.5

29:16.5

that person so by simply just putting
that card on there we now have a process

29:16.5

29:21.4

where that card now goes to where those
cards go and nobody has to remember to

29:21.4

29:25.8

tell anybody because it’s built right
into the card yeah that’s great yeah it

29:25.8

29:30.6

was so silly and we’ve been using that
for about a year now and I kind of

29:30.6

29:34.2

wonder how we got along without that I
also realized I’ve been calling it a

29:34.2

29:37.3

card card so I’ll stop doing that no
that’s all right

29:37.3

29:41.5

that type of thing a long time ago I
actually tried to implement Kanban in my

29:41.5

29:45.3

kitchen and realized very quickly that
my marriage was much more important than

29:45.3

29:51.0

trying to bring ween so it was you know
I drove me nuts so like how can we be

29:51.0

29:55.2

out of ketchup you know or whatever the
item was and but I realized that you

29:55.2

29:59.0

know there’s a there’s a point in time
where you separate your personal life

29:59.0

30:03.7

and your work life so that was one of
them I also have made the mistake of

30:03.7

30:08.0

bringing some things that were very
successful here in business home and

30:08.0

30:12.3

they just don’t translate well that’s
right that’s right Jason what are some

30:12.3

30:16.9

of the biggest problems that you solve
for people well that’s a that’s a very

30:16.9

30:23.7

broad question many of my clients are
private equity firms where they’ll bring

30:23.7

30:29.4

me in and a company is distressed many
times and you know I’ve been very proud

30:29.4

30:34.1

to be able to turn some companies around
and you know where they were able to

30:34.1

30:39.6

succeed in in continue on where they
probably wouldn’t have otherwise

30:39.6

30:46.3

we had a aerospace company in Wichita
fewers back that basically there are 120

30:46.3

30:50.9

jobs there that they were significantly
behind I believe they were you know

30:50.9

30:54.9

there were a 15 million 20 million
dollar company and they were past-due

30:54.9

31:00.7

about three million dollars and we’re
losing significant amount of money on a

31:00.7

31:05.1

monthly basis in about a year we were
able to turn them around get them into

31:05.1

31:10.3

the black and you know allow them the
opportunity to continue producing

31:10.3

31:15.4

product and and being successful moving
on so so those are the the successes

31:15.4

31:20.1

that really get me excited is is when
you see a leadership team or a group

31:20.1

31:25.1

within the company that they’re really
embrace lean and and take it and and

31:25.1

31:29.9

take it to that level where they have
some just some extreme success whether

31:29.9

31:33.8

it’s you know both on the learning side
and then obviously from the business

31:33.8

31:37.2

process side as well
let me ask you this what are some of the

31:37.2

31:41.9

biggest mistakes that people you work
with make after you’ve started

31:41.9

31:48.3

implementing your new process I would
say the biggest mistake that I see is

31:48.3

31:58.5

when they stop it’s very easy to take
the success that you’ve had and be very

31:58.5

32:03.7

happy with it which you should be but
you’re so busy patting yourself on the

32:03.7

32:08.2

back that you don’t realize how much
more is there just the the overall

32:08.2

32:13.1

possibilities so so many I think
companies in general and a few of my

32:13.1

32:17.3

clients have gone on the path
where you know we get to a point and we

32:17.3

32:21.6

have some great success and you know
I’ll take that as a failure on me if I

32:21.6

32:27.0

wasn’t able to communicate and and still
with them the need to continue on you

32:27.0

32:32.9

know enough to where they realize how
much more was possible how much more was

32:32.9

32:37.6

you know there for them to be better for
their customer to develop their people

32:37.6

32:41.7

within their organization you know I’ve
had many companies that have that have

32:41.7

32:45.6

taken it on well beyond me and and and
I’ve been very proud of it in that way

32:45.6

32:50.0

but you know every time I see a company
that we we have some great success we

32:50.0

32:54.6

accomplish the short-term goal that they
had in their mind but I wasn’t able to

32:54.6

32:59.4

convince them of that long-term
possibility that’s that’s probably the

32:59.4

33:04.0

the greatest failure that I see in
companies and and that’s I think one of

33:04.0

33:08.9

the biggest struggles in my industry and
myself when you hate seeing that type of

33:08.9

33:12.1

failure because there’s just so much
more you think a Toyota they’ve been

33:12.1

33:17.1

doing it now for you know gosh for 70
years they’ve been down this path and

33:17.1

33:21.9

they haven’t stopped it just shows how
long you can continue to go down and

33:21.9

33:27.0

keep improving your processes Jason let
me ask what is the one thing that you

33:27.0

33:32.0

want the Scaling UP! Nation to get from
this conversation well I think the best

33:32.0

33:36.6

thing that your audience can take away
from this and I’m actually going to say

33:36.6

33:41.9

two things I hope that’s okay so so the
first thing is is that lean is not just

33:41.9

33:48.1

a manufacturing way of thinking right it
can be if someone wants to learn about

33:48.1

33:54.5

it they want to you know go down that
path there is a lot of people that use

33:54.5

33:59.3

it in industries completely different
industries I’ve heard of dentists using

33:59.3

34:03.4

it I’ve heard of lawn care companies
using in fact I just posted an article

34:03.4

34:08.3

on my LinkedIn if anyone goes out there
and connects with me the a great article

34:08.3

34:13.1

of a lawncare company utilizing lean so
I think that’s the first thing is is the

34:13.1

34:17.8

fact that lean is not just a
manufacturing process and I think the

34:17.8

34:22.2

second thing is that so much of it is
about problem solving and self

34:22.2

34:27.4

development so so the way Toyota looks
at it whenever

34:27.4

34:30.7

someone goes through that
problem-solving process it’s also self

34:30.7

34:35.5

development so you go through and you
identify a problem and you work hard to

34:35.5

34:39.8

solve that problem whether you solve it
or whether you fail on that moment

34:39.8

34:44.2

you’re learning something and I think
that’s one of the best things that

34:44.2

34:49.4

that’s really impacted me personally is
taking that process of problem-solving

34:49.4

34:54.4

and realizing that it’s not just
something I do for work it’s something I

34:54.4

34:59.4

do for me and everything I do and that
it’s a way that I can continue to

34:59.4

35:04.0

develop myself I can use it to develop
people that I work with develop entire

35:04.0

35:08.8

companies by using that problem-solving
process and continuing to learn every

35:08.8

35:12.5

step of the way no matter what direction
we’re trying to get or what business

35:12.5

35:17.3

problem we’re trying to solve which is
we’ve covered a lot of information here

35:17.3

35:20.4

today but we still have so many more
questions I’m sure people out there in

35:20.4

35:24.1

the audience want to know where they can
get some more information so how can

35:24.1

35:28.5

they do that well I think the first
thing you know to contact me you know I

35:28.5

35:35.8

have a website it’s it’s not the easiest
domain I apologize but it is eh i IP

35:35.8

35:40.9

consulting that’s a hip consulting com
and we’ve actually created a welcome

35:40.9

35:44.6

page for your listeners so if you go to
a hip consulting comm and then do

35:44.6

35:48.9

forward slash Scaling UP! there’ll be a
welcome page for you guys there and and

35:48.9

35:52.9

once you get to that welcome page you
can connect with me on LinkedIn you can

35:52.9

35:58.8

connect with me through my signing up
for an email for some updates from me I

35:58.8

36:03.1

have a free download on my website that
you can grab that talks about you know

36:03.1

36:07.2

whether or not you should start your
Lane journey so I am on just about every

36:07.2

36:11.4

social media platform and I welcome
anyone and everyone to connect with me I

36:11.4

36:16.6

love building my contact list so feel
free and I gotta say you post some great

36:16.6

36:21.7

articles on LinkedIn thank you I try I
have really put in you know we talked

36:21.7

36:26.2

about the the problem solving process
and I’ve been trying to figure out what

36:26.2

36:30.9

the right strings to pull and changing
my process a lot on LinkedIn to try and

36:30.9

36:35.0

figure out how do you grow that group
your network on LinkedIn and I’ve been

36:35.0

36:40.4

slowly finding the ways to to grow that
network and how to provide value for

36:40.4

36:44.1

people up there through different
articles and and different content so

36:44.1

36:47.7

that’s a my own learning journey that
I’m going on from a social media

36:47.7

36:51.8

standpoint which has been fun Jason
we’ve now come to the point of the

36:51.8

36:56.7

episode where the point values are
double and you could walk away with some

36:56.7

37:01.0

very valuable prizes so are you ready
for the lightning round sure all right

37:01.0

37:06.4

there’s no prizes please please don’t
want oh right so here we go so uh we

37:06.4

37:10.8

talked about Toyota I am a huge Back to
the Future fan so Toyota didn’t make the

37:10.8

37:14.5

Delory and of course DeLorean made the
DeLorean so we are going to get into the

37:14.5

37:17.9

DeLorean we’re going to set the time
circuits back to the very first day

37:17.9

37:24.0

where you became a lien consultant you
get out of the DeLorean you see yourself

37:24.0

37:29.7

walking across the parking lot going to
your first consulting job what advice do

37:29.7

37:34.2

you give yourself yeah I thought about
this a lot when I saw it on your

37:34.2

37:40.4

question so I think the big thing for me
is I was not prepared for the sales

37:40.4

37:45.1

process as being an individual business
owner you know like I said early on I I

37:45.1

37:49.4

was very fortunate that I had a lot of
people looking for my service early on

37:49.4

37:55.6

but I had no thought or plan really for
that sales funnel so I’ve had I’ll do a

37:55.6

38:00.1

lot of using lean and the problem
solving process a lot to develop that

38:00.1

38:06.0

sales funnel and understand what do I
need to do to continue to keep the

38:06.0

38:09.7

business flowing in so that was that be
my biggest advice figure out the sales

38:09.7

38:14.0

funnel before you take the leap and
again before we had this conversation

38:14.0

38:19.7

I’m amazed that we’re talking about the
sales funnel the sales process with the

38:19.7

38:24.4

lean process that I just never put those
two together so again you have opened my

38:24.4

38:28.3

eyes and I’m sure other people in the
Scaling UP! Nation oh that’s great to

38:28.3

38:31.4

hear
so what are the best books that we

38:31.4

38:36.4

should be reading that help us
understand the lean process yeah there’s

38:36.4

38:42.1

a there’s a few that I really go to when
I’m recommending books one and I don’t

38:42.1

38:48.1

recall the exact name the creator of the
Toyota Production system his name is ty

38:48.1

38:56.6

Ishii oh no leave its ta cee hie o h
No and he has some books out there that

38:56.6

39:00.6

were basically translated from his early
journals when he was trading the Toyota

39:00.6

39:07.2

Production system and I always recommend
the Ono book because it is not technical

39:07.2

39:13.8

it is more philosophy in why lean the
Toyota Production system is what it is

39:13.8

39:18.1

and I always recommend that as an early
reading and that is a book that from my

39:18.1

39:21.8

opinion I’ve probably read it I would
say probably 50 times over the years

39:21.8

39:24.3

because every time I read it I get
something more out of it

39:24.3

39:28.7

another one is a newer one once again
not technical more on the philosophy

39:28.7

39:33.7

side called the Toyota Way by Jeffrey
Laker I would recommend that book and

39:33.7

39:39.5

another one would be the Lean Startup by
Eric Ries and the Lean Startup I would

39:39.5

39:44.1

recommend that one simply because it’s
not about manufacturing they’re talking

39:44.1

39:48.4

about product development and startups
that are outside of the manufacturing

39:48.4

39:52.3

space and I think that’s another good
way to hear about lean in a non

39:52.3

39:57.9

manufacturing way I’ll make sure to put
those on my show notes page now here’s a

39:57.9

40:01.1

question I don’t know if you can answer
or not but what’s your favorite movie

40:01.1

40:08.2

that revolves around Wayne well it’s
kind of a joke in our industry many

40:08.2

40:15.0

people that I talk with about the office
space consultants sadly enough you know

40:15.0

40:20.8

a Toyota Production system TPS they
refer to the TPS reports they have the

40:20.8

40:25.2

consultants coming in and even at the
end of the movie when the building is

40:25.2

40:30.7

burning down they show one of our lean
manufacturing books burning in the fire

40:30.7

40:36.8

so it is it is very much a and I will
say a satire you know a play on my

40:36.8

40:43.2

industry and as funny as it is I love
the movie it really kills me because you

40:43.2

40:47.2

know the entire movie is about you know
firing people and and this and that

40:47.2

40:52.5

which is for those of us that were
brought up from the toyota approach that

40:52.5

40:58.6

is very much against everything that
were for in the lean movement but it is

40:58.6

41:01.9

a great movie one of my one of my
all-time favorites I love it and I get I

41:01.9

41:06.5

get a good laugh out of it every time I
hear them talk about TPS reports and

41:06.5

41:12.3

that so so I have to ask as a lien
consultant how many pieces of flair

41:12.3

41:17.5

should somebody wear I believe it’s 36
but I I’m not gonna quote that right now

41:17.5

41:21.9

so alright well you heard it here all
right so now you’ve got the power to

41:21.9

41:26.3

talk to anybody throughout history who
would it be with and why you know man I

41:26.3

41:33.3

debated on this so much and there’s so
many great people through history I mean

41:33.3

41:37.7

I don’t know how I can every ever settle
on one but you know I get a little bit

41:37.7

41:41.2

sentimental here and I’ll have to say
that if I had a chance I would go back

41:41.2

41:45.5

and talk to probably my grandparents
just because I just be an adult now I

41:45.5

41:50.4

just love to hear their perspective now
on life versus when I was a kid just

41:50.4

41:56.1

like I said get a little sentimental
versus a good one but there’s just too

41:56.1

42:01.3

many great historic people to talk to to
build a nail down just one understood

42:01.3

42:05.5

and I think grandparents is a great one
well thank you for coming on the show

42:05.5

42:11.8

opening all of our eyes to what lean
actually is and how we should be

42:11.8

42:16.5

considering adopting some of those
processes for things we might have not

42:16.5

42:21.3

have thought about before like sales so
really appreciate you coming on the show

42:21.3

42:26.0

thanks they have been Trace I really
appreciate it was a lot of fun nation I

42:26.0

42:29.8

gotta tell you I never looked at lean
manufacturing outside of the

42:29.8

42:35.6

manufacturing process but after speaking
with Jason it is a great tool to do

42:35.6

42:39.7

exactly what we mentioned on the top
half of this show where you were trying

42:39.7

42:46.6

to identify the real issues that are
causing your problems and I knew I was

42:46.6

42:51.9

going to get phone calls and emails
about the quote that I mentioned so I

42:51.9

42:56.6

looked it up on the great Google and
Google said the quote what gets measured

42:56.6

43:02.3

gets managed was a quote from Peter
Drucker so for those of you that had

43:02.3

43:08.5

money on that there you go the Google
solved it and when we measure items we

43:08.5

43:13.9

now are able to manage them and that’s
what Peter Drucker said in his quote so

43:13.9

43:20.4

how do we know what we need to start
measuring and I love what Jason told

43:20.4

43:27.0

we ask ourselves what is our customer
going to get the biggest impact out of

43:27.0

43:32.7

and that’s what we should start
measuring so step back look at your

43:32.7

43:39.2

entire process and see where your
customer will see the biggest value and

43:39.2

43:45.0

that is where you should start now maybe
you can’t find anything with that and

43:45.0

43:49.6

I’m gonna suggest maybe you take a break
from that and look at where you’re gonna

43:49.6

43:55.5

see the biggest impact and then if you
can identify that go ahead and start

43:55.5

44:01.2

with that one and then come back to your
customer folks problem solving is a

44:01.2

44:06.8

skill and when you start looking at ways
to make yourself better to make your

44:06.8

44:12.2

company better you will get better every
single time that you will do that so

44:12.2

44:16.8

what are some of the metrics that you
have set for yourself this year we

44:16.8

44:22.5

started talking about goal setting if
you set a goal great now put some

44:22.5

44:25.7

metrics to it
what is the end date that you want to

44:25.7

44:32.1

have that goal done by and then come and
work backwards so you can figure out

44:32.1

44:38.4

each and every week where you should be
and if you are on or off track folks I

44:38.4

44:42.9

hope you learned something from this
episode I sure am looking at lean

44:42.9

44:48.2

manufacturing weigh differently than I
did before I use several the items that

44:48.2

44:54.1

Jason had spoken about in our business
and I hope that you start using some of

44:54.1

44:59.6

those too have a great week folks

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