76 Transcript

076 The One with the Consulting Client


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hello Scaling UP! Nation Trace Blackmore
here your hosts were Scaling UP! H2O the

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podcasts where we’re Scaling UP! on
knowledge so we don’t Scale UP! our

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systems folks so excited to be here
today I have someone coming into the

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studio I don’t know if you guys know
this but most of my interviews are done

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remotely so I don’t get to see the face
of the person that I am interviewing all

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0:43.2

the time but today I am so today I am
interviewing a good friend of mine Brian

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0:50.0

Waymire of innovative water consultants
and I got to tell you Brian and I were

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0:53.9

not great friends when we first started
he’s going to tell you that story a

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little bit later but we entered into our
relationship as I was his consultant so

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1:08.3

his partner asked me to come to his
company and look at not really some

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1:12.9

issues they were having but they really
wanted to find issues that they didn’t

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1:19.0

know that they had kudos for that and
they also wanted to know what they could

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1:26.2

do better so Brian’s going to tell you
the story when we first met but after we

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1:29.7

met I played one of my favorite games
and we’re going to talk about this as

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1:35.4

well but it is my favorite game to do
it’s called let’s see if I can steal

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your business and of course that is not
me going out and really stealing your

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1:47.4

business but what I do is I go in as
myself there’s no role or anything

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1:53.6

involved I’m just playing myself and I
am looking for things that I would look

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2:01.7

for in a survey if I were working with a
new prospect with a new client to see

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2:07.5

what I would do differently and I have
baseline things that I look for with any

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water treatment program and I just look
to see if those are there and if they’re

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2:17.0

not there I make note of that if they
are there I make a note of that too and

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I say hey they’re doing a really good
job in these areas

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2:26.4

but these are some that you may want to
pay attention to so I did that with them

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and I believe that that was the moment
in time that Brian said you know what I

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2:40.1

think this guy that my partner brought
here to this account without my blessing

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actually I think I had his blessing but
I didn’t have his friendship at the time

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2:48.6

I definitely didn’t have his trust that
was the moment in time where he saw

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2:56.2

value in what we were doing so let me
ask this question have you ever used a

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3:01.7

consultant and that’s what I was I was a
consultant in that relationship and it

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3:08.1

was just to find out what could those
guys be doing that they could be doing

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better and I got to tell you they run a
fantastic organization and for somebody

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to be vulnerable enough and say hey I
want you to come on and I want you to

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look at my most valuable account and
make sure that if somebody like yourself

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3:31.5

comes in here is there anything that we
could do better and we found some items

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like that and they immediately put those
into place so that customer without a

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doubt is getting so much better water
treatment because those guys cared

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enough to make themselves better so what
should a consultant do for you well if

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you look up what a consultant is the
dictionary defines it as someone who

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provides expert advice professionally
well what the heck does that mean and I

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know we’ve all heard those that can’t do
what do they do yes of course they

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consult and folks I say that
tongue-in-cheek I know some exceptional

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4:18.6

consultants out there many of them are
mentors of mine that you have heard on

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4:26.0

this show so what exactly should a
consultant do so yes the consultant

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should give you advice but it should be
advice that you can in Mead

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do something with so for example when I
was working with Brian if I just told

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4:43.2

him something but I didn’t give him any
handles to use it I don’t think I would

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4:48.2

be a very good consultant so that’s what
we did we talked about things that we

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4:53.0

found we talked about things that we
could do better and then we talked about

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4:59.2

why those things were the way that they
were and a lot of those was maybe it was

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how they serviced the account maybe it
was how they had access to the account

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so in all the conditions that they had
all the parameters that they had to do

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their job in if we didn’t look at that
and we maybe didn’t change those a

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little we were always going to be
getting the same result now I’m not

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speaking specifically from this
experience I’m speaking from all

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experiences where if a customer doesn’t
give us access to things that we need

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and we can’t see these things it’s
difficult for us to treat them so you

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5:37.0

might have to go out of your way you
might have to make sure our customers on

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site or you have access to a particular
area so you can see all of the key

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components of the system to make sure
that you are treating it right and then

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hopefully you can record some sort of
data while you’re there so each and

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every service visit you can determine if
those metrics are in range or if there’s

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an issue and hopefully those metrics
will help you discover if there’s an

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issue before there’s a real huge issue
you should have metrics on everything

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that you do that’s something else a
consultant might be able to help you

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6:17.3

with if you’re just running tests and
you’re not doing anything with the test

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that you’re running out of your test kit
you guys are really missing the boat you

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are the water treatment professional and
all of the tools that you have whether

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you’re reading instrument logs whether
you’re taking tests out of your test kit

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you’re looking at logs that your
customer might be running with tests

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that they’re running it’s your job to
put all of that stuff together and then

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make sure that when you leave
that location is better than you found

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it that customer knows more about what
you did when you left and when you

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6:58.3

showed up and you’re getting information
from that customer about what happened

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in between the last time you saw them to
the time that you are right now and

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you’re putting all that together and
that’s why you are a professional water

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treater and if you want to try to get
better perhaps using a consultant might

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be something that you can try but again
a consultant is more than what the

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dictionary says provide expert advice
professionally it’s making sure that

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that expert advice is provided with
action items so you can actually do

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something so again you are gonna hear
about the experience that I had with

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Bryan Waymire I know you’re gonna enjoy
this interview so let’s go ahead and get

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started my lab partner today is Bryan
Waymire of innovative water consultants

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Bryan you are in the Scaling UP! studios
thank you so much for coming so good to

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see you buddy how are you good to see
you trace absolutely wonderful it’s nice

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8:03.0

to see the studio so much to talk about
today we’ve got a gamut of topics I’m

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8:07.8

trying to figure out where we’re gonna
start so does it make sense to talk

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about your business first how we met
where you want to go with that sure as

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you said I’m the CEO and founder of
innovative water consulting we do have

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another company called Legionella
management plan solutions which is a DBA

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that we work with it’s we do all that
stuff on the Legionella side I know it’s

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8:29.0

a long name I get so much crud about
excuse my language it’s you know search

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engine search engine optimization and my
marketing manager that’s how we came up

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with the name of the company so for all
of you out there it does work just so

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you know a little tag words and you’re
in your title of your company so yeah

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that’s that how I met you trace is
through my business partner at the time

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great guy right Thompson he brought me
in because he met you at the AWT

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training he was brought on to help me
start this new business and he met trace

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and we needed some help with some
consulting so trace got called in

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I think like I said tres we were talking
before the start I was a little

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skeptical at first because you come on
you know I know everything little did I

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know I did not know everything and trace
was you I guess yes was a pretty awesome

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partner in helping us get our new
business started and moving forward with

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that well I want to paint the picture
for the Scaling UP! Nation of how our

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first interaction actually went so you
guys picked me up from the airport

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and they had lost my test kit and in the
luggage so I had to deal with that so I

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think there’s about a half an hour late
to actually coming out where you guys

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picked me up and then we went to Cracker
Barrel of course the happiest place on

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the planet and I’m glad I was not your
eggs cuz you were stabbing your eggs in

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an angerly fashion and Wray was
definitely all on board about me coming

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on and you not so much you know is
sometimes you have to eat crow I guess

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is the easiest way to say it yeah trace
you know I was in the water treatment

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world for 14 years before that you know
I thought I knew it all you’re

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absolutely right and you know I was how
old at the time 30 35 36 years old at

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the time trying to you know you start
this new business go out on my own I

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knew everything the whole clients well
little did I know as Tracy’s famous

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tagline I think if I get it right you
you don’t know what you don’t know is

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that exactly close it’s pretty close and
I stole that from somebody by the way I

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don’t okay fair enough
but skeptical is the word I thought I

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knew it all in low and behold I really
didn’t and have really grown as a

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business owner and a CEO from that
experience well I appreciate that and

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we’ve got a great friendship yes that
experience and and I enjoy talking to

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you on a regular basis and I’m trying to
remember after the Cracker Barrel

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experience we we went to one of your
accounts and I think I played my

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favorite game let me try to steal your
business from you of course you did

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you absolutely did and since then you
should see how we have changed how we

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operate from cleanliness from you know
you want to walk in and this is one of

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traces things he says I want to walk in
and see something that has your name on

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it
it’s proudly serviced by your company

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and it looks good you know the pumps are
primed the you know the the chemicals

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not all over the floor you have a
containment unit you have what did you

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call those things that keep the now
you’re giving away trade secrets where

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those are those are wands and I’ll shut
up now no that’s that’s so scary

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domination what we do if you’re dealing
with product especially neat product out

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of a five gallon drum or a 15 gallon
drum and you’ve got to move those

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11:37.3

flexible pickup lines that are off the
pump well we’ll put those inside a piece

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of PVC with the coupling on the bottom
of them and that allows us to not get

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our hands dirty and also keep that foot
valve in the perfect up and down

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position so that way we can minimize non
priming situations is that how you say

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yeah I’m priming and talk about a genius
move and I think the traces patent

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number on that is it is you know know
something starts with the T and has a

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12:05.0

long number on it but I think he has
that patent if you guys want to give him

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12:09.8

a few dollars when you learn how to do
that but you know it yes the consulting

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side and he could have taken my business
that day price-wise we’ve always been

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very competitive and we always done a
very good job for our clients but we

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just learned a ton that day and it was
well worth the money but we actually

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call tracin to give us an overview of
our business and how we can do things

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12:30.8

better so and it was a lot of fun you
and I still work together we do I’m a

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12:34.0

pilot also but we can talk about that a
little bit later but I oh trace a flight

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to yes you’re supposed to make me a
pilot yes I recall so the Scaling UP!

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12:44.8

Nation now is this this is this is a
this is a viable contract yeah okay deal

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awesome
awesome so you mentioned the CWT and CWT

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12:54.2

is a topic that comes up on the show so
often I know you’ve been in water

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treatment for a while you’re now
preparing to take that examination what

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are some of the things that you’re doing
to prepare well I try to stay awake when

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I do it but water treatment
books are not the best entertainment out

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there you know the probably the most
read thing that I actually what I take

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13:19.1

is a section of the a WTS technical
reference manual and I read it and I

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know it’s difficult and it’s a lot of
higher math I mean it’s taking me back

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to my college and engineering days but a
lot of higher math and it’s that’s kind

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13:32.1

of difficult but I also read a ton of
you know that like the analyst from a WT

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has a lot of good information in it and
I’ve also been getting the emails

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recently about the a WT forum yes that’s
been pretty good learned a lot of stuff

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you know about boilers and aluminum
boilers and ways that’s good good

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information you know I have a bunch of
old now code training manuals and

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there’s some GE training manuals I’ll
say the monitoring technology has

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changed there has been some technology
changes in polymers and some difference

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14:00.4

I think but for the most part Waters
water you treat it kind of the same way

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tres you got it yeah I mean I think a
good foundation and I did receive a

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phenomenal foundation from my previous
boss great man he was awesome and you

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know kind of pioneering the how is it
the the concentrated chemicals you know

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14:19.1

you know the five gallon drums so we
were huge into class I office space and

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we didn’t need to carry the 15 gallon
drums you know it was the five gallon

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14:27.1

drums our five-gallon pails up to the
top of these penthouses it just made

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14:30.6

life a little easier so he was kind of a
pioneer in that and he was also kind of

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14:34.1

a pioneer in the contract rate you know
and she was he worked for the now Kona

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14:38.5

GES of the world so they you know they
like to sell the chemical we like to

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sell the contract and then it’s up to us
to not you know dump a bunch of chemical

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14:46.2

down the drain and because then it’s on
us so I think that actually made us

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better water treaters because you know
if we dumped all of our chemical down

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14:54.4

the drain you know then we did something
wrong or we put too much on the in the

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14:57.1

building it made us better water
treaters as and we paid more attention

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15:00.0

cuz we’re not trying to sell you the
chemical we’re trying to sell you a

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15:04.1

service yeah I think it does change your
minds yeah and I think a lot of people

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do it that way some of the small most of
them smaller water treaters today now

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15:13.3

you worked for somebody as a water
treated and now you own your own water

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15:17.6

treatment business why the transition
you think it was just time like I said

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15:20.7

the man I worked for was a great man
he taught me I wouldn’t be where I am

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today I wouldn’t have the opportunities
that I he has given me it was just time

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15:28.0

you know sometimes you can’t teach an
old dog new tricks I guess is the word

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15:33.0

and I had a lot of ideas that I wanted
to wanted to go out and use and to build

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15:36.2

and to try out and so on and so forth
and it was just kind of hard to get him

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15:39.6

to come on board with that but he was
time for I think he was getting ready to

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15:41.9

retire
there’s that type of stuff just the

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15:45.9

right time it was the right time was
right time to move on and you know had

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15:50.9

the money and took the leap there you go
and now you’ve been in business for five

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15:54.3

years a little over a little over almost
three now yeah okay yeah and it’s been

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16:01.1

phenomenal we have grown I think this
year over 500% that’s amazing so a lot

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16:05.0

of it’s on the legionella side of the
business but we’re in 36 states I think

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16:08.3

he told you that earlier that’s amazing
yeah and we did all that through

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16:12.4

technology we made it just easy so Brian
let me ask after being in business for

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16:17.4

over three years after learning all the
things you didn’t know that you now know

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16:21.2

which of course uncovers a whole
plethora of items that you still don’t

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16:26.6

know that we all don’t know continuing
to find to endeavor to know would you do

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16:30.7

it again
and heartbeat and I think Tracy you can

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16:36.7

you can say this anybody out there that
is a owner CEO or CEO of one of these

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16:40.2

businesses and understands that it never
stops

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16:43.8

if you can take that risk and
understanding you have to I think it’s

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16:46.5

other thing you know I did tell my wife
when we’re gonna do this I said it’s

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16:49.9

gonna be difficult it’s gonna be a tough
couple years to get everything up and

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16:55.0

running and it was a lot of work a lot
of travel if you can put those that time

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17:00.0

in and you believe in yourself
you can do this water treatment and

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17:04.6

trace you and I are big believers in
this sometimes it’s a race to the bottom

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17:09.7

and you told me when we certainly Mets
like you know I we don’t want to race to

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17:13.8

the bottom we want to provide a really
good product to our customers and I’ll

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17:18.3

tell you in the how we’ve grown is we
provide a really good product at a

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17:21.9

reasonable price it’s usually not the
lowest but it’s at a reasonable price

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17:26.1

and we have a lot of good
recommendations behind us that’s how

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17:29.9

word-of-mouth the legionella side is a
little bit different that’s you know a

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17:34.7

lot of Internet traffic and of course
with the mandate that came out from CMS

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17:39.6

that’s brought us a ton of business but
the water treatment side it’s it really

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17:44.0

is how well do you keep your word can
you do what you say you’re going to do

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17:49.1

and can you back it up and the best
business to go out and get is the

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17:54.9

referral business and you are just
slamming that you had a great yeah like

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17:58.9

I said you know in the really awesome
part about both of these businesses the

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18:01.9

Legionella side you know if someone
calls me for a Legionella water

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18:07.1

management plan or remediation or
consulting or testing I mean we’re an A

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18:12.2

to Z company when it comes to Legionella
you know we do it all it usually leads

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18:14.8

into the water treatment side of it
because you know how many times I’ve

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18:19.0

walked in to do a you know a consult on
a on a building and you walk it to the

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18:22.4

cooling tower and the drums are
completely empty and they have a

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18:26.4

Legionnaires confirmed case or death and
they’re and they’re building they’re

18:26.4

18:32.3

like well why well you know this is why
well what do we do about that I said you

18:32.3

18:36.2

know you can call my operations manager
and he can help you out with that but

18:36.2

18:40.3

they’re really intertwined companies
they’re separate but they’re intertwined

18:40.3

18:44.3

usually one usually always leads to
another yeah and I think that’s true

18:44.3

18:50.9

that’s why the insurance agencies want
your auto your home yeah I don’t

18:50.9

18:56.0

remember the actual article I read what
magazine it was for but it said things

18:56.0

18:59.6

like insurance and cable companies if
they can get one piece of your business

18:59.6

19:04.2

they might have you for X number of
years if they got two pieces it was 2

19:04.2

19:09.7

times X if they got three pieces you
were a customer for life so when when

19:09.7

19:13.4

you can when you can do everything
within that customer and of course I’m

19:13.4

19:16.7

speaking on the water treatment scope
now not getting outside of our scope

19:16.7

19:21.1

that really does help you help the
customer and keep other people out of

19:21.1

19:23.7

your business I can’t tell you how much
business I picked up because we got

19:23.7

19:29.0

called in to look at somebody’s glycol
loop and there’s a cool that that’s

19:29.0

19:32.9

happened to me many many times too and
I’m not a real hard salesman you’re

19:32.9

19:36.7

probably the same way that I am you know
I walk in and I just say hey this is

19:36.7

19:40.5

this is what I see you can take it or
leave it and you’ve called me for a

19:40.5

19:45.9

reason and just telling them what what
the problems are because usually we get

19:45.9

19:48.2

called in when there
our problems let’s face it you know all

19:48.2

19:52.6

the water treaters out there if it’s a
referral business either one someone’s

19:52.6

19:58.1

very expensive or – it’s because there’s
a problem and that’s what we get called

19:58.1

20:02.4

in to fix and by the way we’re labeled
we do sell in the same way and I

20:02.4

20:06.7

remember out of one of my sales
textbooks we are called indifferent

20:06.7

20:11.4

selling take it or leave it I mean it’s
gonna give you the fat yes you’re

20:11.4

20:16.1

labeled now that’s a good one I do like
it that you know the Legionella side of

20:16.1

20:19.8

it they were required to have it now at
least you know the the Center for

20:19.8

20:22.4

Medicare and Medicaid Services
everything everybody knows about the

20:22.4

20:25.9

mandate I don’t know let’s not assume
that everybody in the nation knows about

20:25.9

20:29.5

that let’s talk about it oh wow I could
probably recite it for you came out June

20:29.5

20:36.6

of lat of 2017 it’s been revised 1/2
times from now and the most current one

20:36.6

20:43.2

came out S&C latter 17-0 3 I think is
the exact ones but it’s changed I

20:43.2

20:48.1

remember the new one but it came out of
July of this year again and has been

20:48.1

20:52.8

revised it’s a little bit less
restrictive on the testing side of it

20:52.8

20:57.5

but it still requires that a critical
access hospital a skilled nursing

20:57.5

21:02.2

facility or a hospital has to have a
water management plan in place to reduce

21:02.2

21:07.2

the risk of Legionella legionellosis or
other opportunistic pathogens in their

21:07.2

21:11.1

building surveyors state surveyors
depending on who you get are looking for

21:11.1

21:15.4

that water management plan I highly
suggest if anybody is going out and

21:15.4

21:19.4

doing it make sure it’s compliant with
ashtray 188 and the CDC toolkit and just

21:19.4

21:23.6

so everybody knows the CDC toolkit was
based off of ASHRAE 188 that is the u.s.

21:23.6

21:30.5

standard it was revised in 2018 it’s now
ASHRAE 188 – 2018 I think they’re gonna

21:30.5

21:34.6

redo it again it’s coming up for another
rewrite and also there is a guideline

21:34.6

21:41.1

twelve of ASHRAE 188 or ASHRAE guideline
12 that is due for public review should

21:41.1

21:45.8

hopefully be out first quarter which is
a great piece of information or

21:45.8

21:51.2

literature for water management plans
now if I recall the Medicare document it

21:51.2

21:55.8

says if you don’t do these things we may
not reimburse you for any of you that’s

21:55.8

22:00.6

absolutely correct the the exact tag is
an F eight eight zero if I’m

22:00.6

22:04.7

actually the tag it’s an
infectious-disease tag so it falls under

22:04.7

22:10.9

that I’ve had many many people call me
to clean up that mess so hey we need a

22:10.9

22:15.5

water management plan what do we do we
come in we take care of it and we also

22:15.5

22:19.3

have another way to do it and you know
we can talk about that later if we want

22:19.3

22:23.1

but it’s very very helpful and we can
usually get a water management plan done

22:23.1

22:27.3

very very fast usually same day yeah
I’ve seen some of the stuff that you’re

22:27.3

22:30.8

doing and it is fantastic you guys are
doing just knocking it out of the park

22:30.8

22:33.3

thanks Tracy
I am curious though and I know the Scaling UP!

22:33.3

22:38.5

Nation is curious whether it’s on
the Legionella side whether it’s the the

22:38.5

22:44.2

water treatment side how are you finding
new business you know we have a really

22:44.2

22:49.5

fiery four foot eleven Italian marketing
manager her name’s Joe Linda and I think

22:49.5

22:51.9

she just scares people into come in and
sign it up with us

22:51.9

22:56.1

the path of least resistance it’s just a
contract and do business with you know

22:56.1

23:01.0

um you know we’ve partnered with some
very large companies on how we how we’ve

23:01.0

23:05.4

done it you know they need they had a
need for you know Class A office space

23:05.4

23:11.8

or for hospital chains or skilled
nursing facility changed chains that’s

23:11.8

23:17.3

one way we have gone to conferences a
lot of them health care conferences all

23:17.3

23:22.7

over the country we have been to search
engine optimization you know Facebook

23:22.7

23:26.7

LinkedIn everything so let’s talk a
little bit about that so we’ve got

23:26.7

23:29.5

people that own water treatment
companies we’ve got people that are

23:29.5

23:32.4

working for water treatment companies
but are kind of running their own

23:32.4

23:36.2

territory within that mhm so they want
to get involved in Facebook or LinkedIn

23:36.2

23:39.3

what are some tips you could give them I
wish I could give you that and then you

23:39.3

23:43.0

know what I’m gonna I’m gonna pimp Joe
Linda on this one I’m gonna have her be

23:43.0

23:47.5

on Scaling UP! H2O for one of these days
how about that trail ask some social

23:47.5

23:52.1

media commercial so many questions she
is phenomenal at it she has set up all

23:52.1

23:58.9

of our SEO all of our LinkedIn Facebook
all that she takes care of all of us she

23:58.9

24:02.7

post every single day she’s really
really awesome at it she takes care of

24:02.7

24:08.5

our blog she takes care of our landings
page we have videos she does all that

24:08.5

24:13.1

and it’s phenomenal how how awesome she
is so maybe one day we’ll get drilling

24:13.1

24:14.8

on that I
I could give you all that information

24:14.8

24:20.4

trace I am NOT that’s the why I hired
her yeah yeah you yes you realize that I

24:20.4

24:25.9

don’t do this yes and now you’re able to
do which I wish I could but she’s just

24:25.9

24:30.1

she’s awesome she ran a clothing company
before and just it was kind of hard to

24:30.1

24:33.0

get her to learn legionella I’m just
just kidding she’s a phenomenally smart

24:33.0

24:36.4

lady but we teach we taught of the
légion down the world and she really

24:36.4

24:40.9

targets the audiences that fall into us
and remember when I said Legionella

24:40.9

24:43.8

leads to water treatment water treatment
leads to Legionella so it’s kind of

24:43.8

24:49.1

works sure works together yeah and even
when I talk to people at AWT trainings

24:49.1

24:53.4

AWT conferences I’m still amazed at the
number of water traders out there that

24:53.4

24:57.9

still don’t get that we need to educate
not only ourselves but our customers

24:57.9

25:02.6

about Legionella people still have this
wait-and-see mentality and I don’t get

25:02.6

25:06.6

it
you know um we run into it daily you

25:06.6

25:09.8

know quotes we send out to clients and
so on and so forth

25:09.8

25:13.0

I’ll talk a little bit about my business
and I’m a very big proponent of knowing

25:13.0

25:17.3

your audience okay know who you’re going
to sell to if you go in and out for

25:17.3

25:20.1

somebody a product that they you know
they can’t afford they’re not going to

25:20.1

25:25.1

buy that product so I have structured
our business in a way that we did stuff

25:25.1

25:29.8

through technology – and to decrease the
price but still provide a very very very

25:29.8

25:34.1

good product a very thorough product a
very compliant product and a product

25:34.1

25:37.6

that very few people have there’s a
couple secrets I don’t want to tell you

25:37.6

25:40.4

about but and I’m not gonna ask okay
there’s some secrets I don’t want to

25:40.4

25:44.6

tell you about that’s kind of our bread
and butter that has really put us well

25:44.6

25:48.0

above everybody else when it comes to
legion on the side of the business and

25:48.0

25:52.0

and how we’ve approached it well how
about we we leave it with this you found

25:52.0

25:57.3

things that other people weren’t doing
right and issues that people were having

25:57.3

26:00.7

because of that and you solved you
filled that gap

26:00.7

26:07.7

yeah and we’ll segue for a second in any
business to be successful you can read

26:07.7

26:11.4

books and I think that’s great you need
to read you need to educate yourself on

26:11.4

26:16.6

a daily basis but you find someone’s
pain point you find the need is how I

26:16.6

26:21.7

always have put it you find the need and
you fill that gap at the best possible

26:21.7

26:26.2

way you can and at the best possible
price if you can do that you will always

26:26.2

26:29.8

be successful
and there’s all kinds in its Scaling UP!

26:29.8

26:33.6

needs to know there are all kinds of
opportunities out there so many

26:33.6

26:38.0

opportunities in water so if you want to
branch out just think a little bit go

26:38.0

26:41.5

outside the box water treatments great
but it could be a stepping stone for

26:41.5

26:45.5

something even bigger which is what we
figured out well I would not be doing

26:45.5

26:50.2

justice to the Scaling UP! Nation if we
didn’t talk a little bit about sales

26:50.2

26:55.6

because you are masterful when it comes
and again sales is something where

26:55.6

27:00.0

you’re helping them solve an issue it’s
not something where I’m manipulating

27:00.0

27:04.1

somebody to do something they don’t want
it correct yep so I’m in front of a

27:04.1

27:09.2

client are let’s lift even back up
so I’m now driving around I’ve got some

27:09.2

27:14.5

extra time because I just serviced my
last account and it’s early in the day I

27:14.5

27:21.1

can pick up more business I could use
more business what do I do you know my

27:21.1

27:24.6

previous job it was really good I
there’s two there’s two ways you can do

27:24.6

27:29.3

it water treatment you remember I call
it cooling tower trolling you know I’m

27:29.3

27:32.5

talking about I know exactly what you’re
so well there’s a cooling tower and you

27:32.5

27:36.2

and we’ve all been there when we walk
into a building so you know what I’m

27:36.2

27:40.2

gonna stop there you know and that’s
actually what I did one in my previous

27:40.2

27:43.9

job you know you stopped into that
building and you’re gonna get the

27:43.9

27:46.7

gatekeeper or you’re gonna walk into
that building and they’re gonna look at

27:46.7

27:51.1

you and say no no no no but what I did
is I kept the yellow pad of paper just

27:51.1

27:54.6

like you’re looking right there and I’d
write that building down okay they do

27:54.6

27:58.3

have things nowadays you know the
Salesforce and a couple of those

27:58.3

28:02.1

companies have you know you know
tracking for all that stuff those are

28:02.1

28:05.8

expensive they work on a larger scale
they work really well but what I would

28:05.8

28:09.0

do is just go in there and give him my
cart they didn’t work real well trace

28:09.0

28:13.7

okay I always call them back and you
know just as well as I know if I’m

28:13.7

28:17.9

walking into a black more enterprises
building I know I’m not gonna get that

28:17.9

28:22.6

account okay but one thing I always did
learn is who had that account and it

28:22.6

28:26.3

took me a little while sometimes one or
two calls and then you can figure out

28:26.3

28:29.8

how to sell better once you know your
competition remember always know who

28:29.8

28:33.8

you’re selling to once you find that
it’s a little bit simpler I never start

28:33.8

28:38.5

out with price never even though that’s
what your customer is forcing that’s

28:38.5

28:40.8

what your customer want is that but I
never

28:40.8

28:45.4

with price I said hey let’s compare
apples to apples are you getting exactly

28:45.4

28:50.1

what you’re paying for that always helps
but one other reason how I’ve been

28:50.1

28:54.6

really successful is you find
conglomerates or you find a group of

28:54.6

28:58.5

abilities okay
and then you pitch that to them say hey

28:58.5

29:02.1

can I get a meeting and it’s gonna take
a little while that don’t just be

29:02.1

29:05.2

discouraged I’m gonna tell you this is
not for the faint of heart business okay

29:05.2

29:09.6

this takes some gusto this takes some
follow up this takes you to go out every

29:09.6

29:13.5

day and beat down the doors but if you
can find a group of buildings you know

29:13.5

29:17.8

for instance if you have a Class A
office space company okay they might

29:17.8

29:22.1

have twenty buildings and you know it’s
much easier to sell a really good

29:22.1

29:27.5

product across 20 buildings okay because
now we have standardization they love

29:27.5

29:33.7

that they love building one company they
love not having to call six different

29:33.7

29:38.7

people it works really well I’m a
goal-oriented person but I’m also a

29:38.7

29:41.8

dreamer his guess is easy way to think
about it’s like I can do this you know

29:41.8

29:46.0

I’m gonna go out there and I’m gonna see
if I can sell that account and I write

29:46.0

29:49.5

that on top of my listen said that’s the
one I want this year and then I go to

29:49.5

29:52.6

the next one and then the next one and
the next one but it’s worked very well

29:52.6

29:56.8

for me I know yeah you we didn’t mention
I’m a pilot but I’m a very SOP standard

29:56.8

30:01.8

operating procedure type person and you
would be amazed how the type of people

30:01.8

30:06.3

that you and I work with are very
logical and methodical okay they like

30:06.3

30:10.2

that standardization piece so everybody
out there all you sales guys all you

30:10.2

30:15.9

water traders it helps the one offs are
great but if you can get you know into a

30:15.9

30:19.9

larger client and sell them on that by
the way remember when I said the very

30:19.9

30:24.0

beginning do what you say you’re gonna
do though make sure you can onboard them

30:24.0

30:27.7

make sure you can get it done and get it
done the way that they want it done and

30:27.7

30:33.4

don’t give them headaches now you say
don’t give them headaches I’m sure

30:33.4

30:37.2

you’ve got some examples oh yeah say
that what are you speaking us so

30:37.2

30:40.9

remember I said that word onboarding if
you if you sell a twenty building

30:40.9

30:45.1

contract okay
and in that twenty building contract you

30:45.1

30:51.5

sell remote remote controllers that can
monitor everything because that was one

30:51.5

30:54.2

of your pitches hey we can take care of
your pro

30:54.2

30:58.4

remotely and fix something overnight and
we’re gonna know before you know because

30:58.4

31:02.6

we’ve all used that line haven’t we yeah
Wheatley but if we sell that to them

31:02.6

31:07.0

make sure you follow through on it so
and if you sell part of it say hey you

31:07.0

31:09.6

know we’ll install them for you so you
have a really good installer and you

31:09.6

31:13.1

just have to swap out the old one put
the new one on make sure you have a

31:13.1

31:16.5

realistic timeline and this is what I
say about headaches if you say you’re

31:16.5

31:20.8

gonna do it in a week you know what you
better do it in a week yeah and if

31:20.8

31:23.1

you’re doing twenty buildings you’re
probably not gonna get it done a week

31:23.1

31:27.2

but that’s what I’m trying to say be
realistic with your expectations and

31:27.2

31:31.8

don’t give them that headache because
and you know schedule things people

31:31.8

31:36.6

don’t like surprises so if you just show
up at their door one day and say hey

31:36.6

31:41.0

we’re here to do your new controller
that inconveniences people have a good

31:41.0

31:45.1

scheduling software a good scheduling
system that’s what I mean by don’t give

31:45.1

31:49.9

headaches and think ahead if you can do
that and if the onboarding is you have

31:49.9

31:54.8

30 days make sure you start this 30 days
before that onboarding starts and just

31:54.8

31:59.3

be ahead of the game and you’ll always
come out on the other end looking like a

31:59.3

32:02.5

rose or smelling like a rose smell like
a rose yeah that’s great advice

32:02.5

32:07.1

and I tell you I think where people get
caught up is they’re so happy and

32:07.1

32:11.7

excited that they got yeah they just
want to go as quickly as they possibly

32:11.7

32:15.9

can but if you can pause and take a
second and think about what are all the

32:15.9

32:22.2

things that are going to create an issue
and you mentioned remote monitoring on

32:22.2

32:25.8

on controllers well I can’t tell you how
many times with a customer thought was a

32:25.8

32:28.7

great idea we thought it was a great
idea but then when we actually started

32:28.7

32:34.3

talking to the IT people no way we were
going to their internet so you know now

32:34.3

32:38.0

when we do that we just look at the
cellular because we know we don’t have

32:38.0

32:41.3

that headache correct and then you know
and this is another thing I don’t know

32:41.3

32:44.8

what you guys do with this out there I
put it into my price because it just

32:44.8

32:49.5

makes my life easier oh absolutely I
built into the price they never see it

32:49.5

32:53.1

and then you know if you have a price
increase then you you you build that in

32:53.1

32:57.3

for the following year or whatever you
need to do but they don’t like ancillary

32:57.3

33:02.6

costs either they want a one number
budget now we all know that the stuff

33:02.6

33:07.4

pops up controller busts or pump busts
they’re okay with that but if you come

33:07.4

33:10.5

back to mitts
under bidness that’s the quickest way to

33:10.5

33:13.6

get thrown out
yes bait-and-switch yeah it is and it

33:13.6

33:18.0

does not work people get really
irritated with that I don’t do that but

33:18.0

33:22.0

I’ve got a lot of business from people
who have so I’ve you know I do a lot of

33:22.0

33:27.2

government work and you bid government
work you know it’s the lowest it’s the

33:27.2

33:31.6

lowball but I’ve gotten called back to
schools who’ve thrown me out and brought

33:31.6

33:34.8

me back because it was a bait-and-switch
gotcha

33:34.8

33:39.0

so I’m curious and I know you have
stories around this what and not don’t

33:39.0

33:43.6

mention any names but what is one of the
most bonehead things that you’ve seen

33:43.6

33:48.6

that you’ve been able to take over
business because of yeah I took over a

33:48.6

33:56.4

large closed-loop contract and closed
loops are great contracts if one they’re

33:56.4

34:00.4

treated well and you know you just have
to go in once a quarter and check it we

34:00.4

34:03.9

usually do quarterly if it’s a very good
loop usually you’re gonna find something

34:03.9

34:07.6

that’s wrong with it on a quarterly
basis unless it’s a disaster and we all

34:07.6

34:13.5

have seen those disasters I walked into
one once and it was had a it was out of

34:13.5

34:17.5

college campus and we had picked up a
bunch of closed loops walked into it and

34:17.5

34:24.7

there was a guy there and he was testing
a boiler and it was me and him and they

34:24.7

34:29.6

brought us both in to bid on this so he
already had the account and I came in

34:29.6

34:34.6

and Tracy taught me this one you listen
you don’t say anything unless someone

34:34.6

34:38.6

says something to you they brought me in
because it wasn’t working and they

34:38.6

34:43.7

brought him in because they wanted to
see what he had to say well I came in

34:43.7

34:47.9

introduced myself you know water
treaters you know in his competition I I

34:47.9

34:52.0

didn’t like that situation but it is
what it was and it we saw shook the

34:52.0

34:55.2

man’s hands it’s nice to meet you you
know let’s just see what we have to say

34:55.2

34:58.1

I’m the customer called me in I’m sorry
this is a little bit awkward but let’s

34:58.1

35:02.9

see how this goes customer asses will my
bore there’s two years old and I’ve had

35:02.9

35:09.4

to replace the entire thing just it just
rusted out and he goes immediately

35:09.4

35:14.9

defensive immediately defensive the the
customer or the the other person that we

35:14.9

35:18.1

were going against I guess is the
easiest way to put a melee defensive I

35:18.1

35:21.7

didn’t say word just sit there listened
and at the end of it he says well I’ve

35:21.7

35:23.7

been
I’ve been pouring this in there for the

35:23.7

35:28.5

you know infrared for an entire two
years I said well what are you pouring

35:28.5

35:33.2

in I said are you using sodium nitrite
you know usually in thali tries all I

35:33.2

35:37.0

mean it’s it’s just a closed-loop hot
water research boiler no important that

35:37.0

35:41.7

it be points at it
Traci love this he was pouring in sodium

35:41.7

35:47.9

hypochloride and so we just learned that
that is not the best equation in hot

35:47.9

35:52.2

loop system so the end of the
conversation was very simple I looked at

35:52.2

35:56.3

it I said okay I never said a word at
that point I said I think I have

35:56.3

36:00.4

everything that I need to know and I
laughed and told the customer I just

36:00.4

36:04.6

wrote up a little letter and said I
wouldn’t have chosen that and I kind of

36:04.6

36:08.5

gave that that’s pretty good have not
chosen that and I gave him the kind of

36:08.5

36:12.8

the the the bad parts about doing you
know why I would not have used that and

36:12.8

36:17.2

kept it in there for as long as we did I
think we tested it at 50 ppm of free

36:17.2

36:22.3

chlorine Wow what was the metallurgy of
the boiler it’s copper and galvanized

36:22.3

36:26.6

oops
so it was a fifty five thousand dollar

36:26.6

36:30.7

mistake so that was probably the biggest
bonehead one I’ve seen most of the time

36:30.7

36:35.8

you know you walk in and trace you told
me this to it it makes sense everybody

36:35.8

36:39.0

out there make sure your drums aren’t
empty you know it’s funny

36:39.0

36:43.1

out of all the things that can happen in
a water treatment account you know the

36:43.1

36:48.4

pail going dry for a day isn’t the worst
thing it’s not the worst thing but you

36:48.4

36:52.5

know and it’s always in the most
inopportune moment it’s like your

36:52.5

36:57.4

competition walks in all sudden oh but I
got to tell you when your customer finds

36:57.4

37:02.9

that there is nothing worse than they
can see so it’s definitely a perception

37:02.9

37:06.3

issue because it could happen over a
couple of hours and that’s of course

37:06.3

37:09.7

when your customer comes in and it’s so
easy of course if you have a malfunction

37:09.7

37:13.6

that may happen and and and you can’t be
held responsible for that if you’re

37:13.6

37:16.7

doing everything right maybe you could
depending if you aren’t but their

37:16.7

37:20.8

calculations out there you can figure
out and maybe a five gallon storage

37:20.8

37:24.3

isn’t enough maybe you’ve got to move up
to something bigger our operations

37:24.3

37:28.2

manager Larry is you know I call him the
Guru I think you know I tease him

37:28.2

37:31.9

because he has insomnia but he he’ll
call me at five o’clock five five thirty

37:31.9

37:35.0

six o’clock in the morning he says what
do you think of this calculation for

37:35.0

37:38.1

figured
how much chemikal we need Larry it’s

37:38.1

37:42.0

five o’clock six o’clock in the morning
what are you talking about well you know

37:42.0

37:45.2

I walked into a building last time when
I was almost out of chemical and for

37:45.2

37:51.0

this biocyte okay did you change it yeah
but I think we need to tweak it a little

37:51.0

37:55.0

bit more and I need to change my
services just to show up one day earlier

37:55.0

37:59.9

okay Larry you can do that so you’re
right there are formulas and stuff like

37:59.9

38:05.2

that we can use to make sure it’s gonna
happen we know it but you just don’t

38:05.2

38:09.5

want to happen every single time right
and you mentioned Larry great guy yes I

38:09.5

38:15.1

have received the same phone calls
oh I’m sorry trace no Larry’s phenomenal

38:15.1

38:20.0

he really is he’s been a huge integral
part like Chris’s to your team he’s

38:20.0

38:24.2

phenomenal and I could not do this
without him so I’m gonna ask you a

38:24.2

38:29.5

couple questions that people ask me and
get your perspective on so you and I met

38:29.5

38:34.9

each other because we did enter in that
consultative relationship there are a

38:34.9

38:40.0

lot of people out there that may think
they need a consultant may think they

38:40.0

38:45.9

never need a consultant why would why
did you hire a consultant um first I was

38:45.9

38:50.3

rye my business partner at time and and
it was his idea because he went to your

38:50.3

38:53.3

training and like I said you don’t know
what you don’t know but there’s all

38:53.3

38:58.1

kinds of issues you could have you know
for instance a biological growth in the

38:58.1

39:02.8

heat exchanger that you don’t understand
okay I’ve tried everything you know I’ve

39:02.8

39:06.5

acid eyes that we’ve clean we’ve torn it
apart we’ve cleaned it why is it still

39:06.5

39:09.7

plugging up you know there’s not we
don’t have high copper levels we don’t

39:09.7

39:13.4

have high iron levels you know we are
dissolved solids or low we’re not

39:13.4

39:17.0

getting you know the scaling potentials
not there what is going on in this heat

39:17.0

39:19.8

exchanger that’s when you would call in
a consultant because you know it could

39:19.8

39:23.2

be a huge client it could be a thousand
ton chillers that you’re dealing with or

39:23.2

39:27.1

a thousand ton you know heat pump system
in a building with the flat plate that

39:27.1

39:33.2

just is for some reason is not staying
efficient so that’s a great time we

39:33.2

39:37.5

called you in because we’re having
massive issues with I’m gonna call

39:37.5

39:41.7

Georgia clay okay but it was in a it was
in a different state we called you so

39:41.7

39:46.5

hey trace what do you think and we’re
also having corrosion issues but it

39:46.5

39:49.7

seemed they seemed to be interlinked I
think is what we finally came

39:49.7

39:53.2

– that’s a reason if you really are
having trouble with something it’s

39:53.2

39:56.7

really worth it because you know that
says something to your client also it’s

39:56.7

40:00.2

gonna cost you money but sometimes a
little bit of money is where is worth

40:00.2

40:04.7

keeping that client and it also goes a
really long way and tres does a really

40:04.7

40:08.9

good job tres does I’m sure all
consultants do we use a few consultants

40:08.9

40:14.4

that’s they write up what they’ve done
you know and it really says something to

40:14.4

40:17.6

you as a company it says hey I’m willing
to go out and figure out what the

40:17.6

40:21.6

problem was I learned this from my
flight instruction days and tres you

40:21.6

40:25.6

always know this and this is something
that you learn when you teach is if you

40:25.6

40:31.1

don’t know the answer don’t make it up
oh that’s huge I’ve always said I’ve

40:31.1

40:35.0

always looked at my clients said I don’t
know the answer to that but give me 24

40:35.0

40:38.6

hours and I’ll find an answer for that
you know it’s funny you bring that up I

40:38.6

40:41.3

was speaking with a younger water
treater

40:41.3

40:46.6

just this week and that’s his big fear
is that he’s gonna walk in someplace and

40:46.6

40:50.8

not know the answer I’m like dude it’s
okay get over that because that’s going

40:50.8

40:54.9

to happen yeah and that happens to me
every day well that’s how you learn that

40:54.9

40:59.6

is how you learn and you’ve I’ve learned
a ton in my life by asking a question or

40:59.6

41:04.0

or a client asking me a question and
it’s in the flying world or it’s in the

41:04.0

41:07.5

water treatment worldlets in the
Legionella world I mean we hire we have

41:07.5

41:11.1

a really awesome consultant on our team
that basically wrote the book on ASHRAE

41:11.1

41:16.0

I call him all the time and yeah he
charges me but guess what I don’t want

41:16.0

41:19.4

to look go to my client and tell him
something that’s not right I would

41:19.4

41:24.4

rather say I don’t know but I’ll get you
an answer that goes a lot farther than

41:24.4

41:27.6

if you tell them something wrong and
then they go ahead and call my

41:27.6

41:30.8

consultant he tells them something
different that’s a yeah you look really

41:30.8

41:36.1

well you look a lot worse and I really
feel that if say you were to ask me a

41:36.1

41:39.4

question and I were able to rattle off
an answer

41:39.4

41:43.3

all right big deal but if you ask me a
question I say well probably that’s it

41:43.3

41:47.0

that’s a really good question I need to
find out for you but you have to commit

41:47.0

41:52.0

that I will find this out and I’ll let
you know by tomorrow at 3 o’clock

41:52.0

41:59.8

perfect and keep the deadline that’s
right yeah and I’m gonna let you know

41:59.8

42:02.7

what I found out you’re gonna remember
that more and

42:02.7

42:07.0

it’s gonna build that relationship more
and that’s gonna make you trust me it’s

42:07.0

42:10.4

gonna make me see more trustworthy then
if I just said yeah here’s the answer

42:10.4

42:14.4

another thing for everybody out there
follow through you know if you tell

42:14.4

42:18.6

you’re gonna have a quote by um next
Monday have that quote if you say you’re

42:18.6

42:22.9

gonna have if you say you can get the
leads in latests in 14 days you know by

42:22.9

42:27.3

the culture make sure you’re reaching
out to them at date 12 and have those

42:27.3

42:31.3

but it’s probably already there okay but
if it’s not make sure at day 14 they’re

42:31.3

42:36.3

there do what you say you’re going to do
yeah and I’ll also add be careful what

42:36.3

42:38.4

you promise when things are out of your
control

42:38.4

42:41.6

that’s true yep I would agree with that
too and that’s I think that’s back to

42:41.6

42:44.7

that whole expectations thing that we
talked about earlier I have a really

42:44.7

42:50.5

awesome consultant that we use she’s
from New Jersey phenomenally smart woman

42:50.5

42:54.5

and she does helps us with a lot of you
know operations side of the business

42:54.5

42:59.2

because we’re growing so fast I needed
to have someone who is awesome in the

42:59.2

43:02.9

operation side and also in the marketing
side she’s been helping our team with a

43:02.9

43:07.0

bunch of different stuff but she’s big
into workflows and I remember I come

43:07.0

43:09.7

from the flying world and that’s
standard operating procedures if you

43:09.7

43:15.2

have a if you have a sales thing say hey
we have this lead we sent the quote out

43:15.2

43:19.6

you know we close that deal have
something in steps one through ten did

43:19.6

43:22.5

you do all these things with checklists
on the side of them it’s really simple

43:22.5

43:28.6

if you do that you’re not gonna miss a
lot of stuff I got to you touched on

43:28.6

43:33.7

checklist and that is something that I
am really working on I’m going to do a

43:33.7

43:38.4

presentation for AWT this year actually
I don’t know if I want to do it or not

43:38.4

43:42.9

but I’m submitting it hopefully they’ll
pick it up on checklist because we’ve

43:42.9

43:48.1

got awesome SOPs here but they’re long
and because they’re long people don’t

43:48.1

43:53.9

use them the way they should but when
there’s a checklist they get used so

43:53.9

43:57.5

I’ve read numerous books on checklists a
lot of them deal with the flying

43:57.5

44:04.2

industry so I’m curious since you’ve
used checklists so many times what is

44:04.2

44:09.5

the making of a good checklist ease of
use is probably the simplest thing in my

44:09.5

44:12.2

world and one of my worlds I’ll put it
that way

44:12.2

44:15.9

checklists we live and die by them we
literally do it

44:15.9

44:20.4

in one thing about checklist that you
you might thinks it a little bit

44:20.4

44:25.7

different is in our world we have what’s
called a do and verify checklist okay

44:25.7

44:29.0

and I think this is something that’s
good for our teams as they build up to

44:29.0

44:33.1

this for instance say you’re gonna make
a checklist or state an operating

44:33.1

44:35.8

procedure for when you walk into a
building you know the first thing you’re

44:35.8

44:41.0

gonna do is survey the the condition of
the pumps and survey is the conductivity

44:41.0

44:45.6

is there any alarms or any of that stuff
okay what we call is called do and a

44:45.6

44:50.3

verify if you’ve done it a thousand
times do it and then pull out that

44:50.3

44:54.6

checklist and make sure you actually did
everything that makes it very simple and

44:54.6

45:00.8

then it’s come becomes rote memory but
then you it all of us forget something

45:00.8

45:05.7

at some time okay it’s rote memory but
then if you pull that checklist out yeah

45:05.7

45:09.1

I did it I did I did it in go down
through it real quick a checklist was

45:09.1

45:13.1

designed that you do something then you
verify it that’s probably the best way

45:13.1

45:16.4

now you know even doctors
anesthesiologists are doing that it’s

45:16.4

45:19.6

phenomenal what what checklists are
doing and they took it from our industry

45:19.6

45:23.2

from the aviation industry yeah I’m
trying to remember the doctor’s name he

45:23.2

45:28.0

wrote checklist manifesto and I cannot
remember his name but he said there were

45:28.0

45:32.3

two types of checklists there was the do
confirm that you just mentioned and then

45:32.3

45:38.0

the read yep do yeah and if I remember
the the to how he described the to was

45:38.0

45:42.4

if you do something all the time then
that’s where you have the do confirm and

45:42.4

45:47.6

the point with that was you don’t forget
the stupid stuff yes exactly and it’s

45:47.6

45:52.6

the stupid stuff that always gets you
into trouble for instance another thing

45:52.6

45:56.2

you know service reports you know you
can integrate that into a service report

45:56.2

46:00.4

I mean he’s you walk in and everybody
knows what they’re supposed to do and

46:00.4

46:03.5

the service service report goes along
with it kind of as a checklist as you go

46:03.5

46:08.3

down yeah I’m doing this this this this
and this saves time saves money you can

46:08.3

46:12.2

get into that building quicker now let
me think how the Scaling UP! Nation is

46:12.2

46:15.8

receiving all okay said I’m sure there’s
somebody out there that’s saying if I’m

46:15.8

46:20.1

using a checklist that means someone
thinks I’m stupid or it’s turning my

46:20.1

46:24.3

brain off and as a trained pilot how do
you feel about that

46:24.3

46:29.5

oh no I you know I have 15,000 hours of
flight time

46:29.5

46:33.6

like I said we live and die by
checklists I haven’t memorized but we

46:33.6

46:37.5

still do them because there is everyday
there’s never the perfect flight let’s

46:37.5

46:39.8

put it that way
so is there ever the perfect water

46:39.8

46:44.0

treatment day no we all know that
there’s never a perfect water treatment

46:44.0

46:47.2

day so if there’s never the perfect
flight and I have all those checklist

46:47.2

46:50.8

memorized and I still forget stuff just
because you might be thinking about

46:50.8

46:53.4

something else
I have a dinner the kids are six

46:53.4

46:58.2

something is going on that’s going to
divert your attention so yeah I think

46:58.2

47:01.8

checklist is a phenomenal thing to
implement into our industry

47:01.8

47:05.3

yeah I’m remembering the interview with
Captain Sullenberger and I don’t

47:05.3

47:09.9

remember the flight number and and in
his interview he wouldn’t take any

47:09.9

47:15.2

credit because he was following the
checklist and every body did what they

47:15.2

47:18.6

were supposed to do according to that
checklist and that’s why there were no

47:18.6

47:24.5

fatalities on that flight yep we
actually did ditching today and my

47:24.5

47:27.5

training session had is so cool I want
to talk about that but I have no idea

47:27.5

47:31.8

how I would even talk about I’m just
gonna leave that and say that’s so cool

47:31.8

47:37.8

so else we got trace well I want to ask
you what is something a new water treaty

47:37.8

47:44.8

would just benefit tremendously about
you know tres you’ve done this and this

47:44.8

47:51.2

is how I trained Larry and I’m a I’m a
visual learner in other words I can read

47:51.2

47:55.1

all the books that’s why I told you
reading that AWT technical reference

47:55.1

48:00.8

manual it’s painful at times however
taking someone out and actually showing

48:00.8

48:04.8

them same thing with flying taking some
I’ll actually show line hey this is what

48:04.8

48:08.8

a controller is this is what a heat
exchanger is doing that and

48:08.8

48:12.5

understanding your audience
understanding the person asked them how

48:12.5

48:17.9

they learn best I think that’s a really
good way to teach someone and this comes

48:17.9

48:22.1

from my background but to say hey if
they don’t get it the first time did I

48:22.1

48:27.3

fail maybe not maybe I didn’t fail maybe
I just didn’t get to their language I

48:27.3

48:30.2

think that’s a good thing for a new
water treaties

48:30.2

48:34.5

if you don’t understand something don’t
pretend you do keep asking the questions

48:34.5

48:38.4

until you get the answer or you
understand it alright great advice now

48:38.4

48:42.9

what if it’s not the the water treat
nobody’s coming to

48:42.9

48:49.4

how they learn best and now they’re not
getting what they need how do they

48:49.4

48:53.4

approach their boss or their trainer
with that yeah personalities are kind of

48:53.4

48:58.0

always fun with that one you know I I’m
a very non conflict person I don’t know

48:58.0

49:02.3

about you trace I don’t like conflict I
avoided it pretty much at all costs

49:02.3

49:06.2

but I will say this if you’re just
truthful with people like you and I are

49:06.2

49:09.3

pretty easy approachable
I think we’re easy approachable people

49:09.3

49:13.7

but some people aren’t yeah and it’s not
that it’s just they just give off a vibe

49:13.7

49:18.0

and if it’s your boss
I would really honestly appeal to them

49:18.0

49:22.8

and say hey I need some help I really
want to be successful and I would always

49:22.8

49:26.9

say I always never be combative you know
and then if you’re gonna go to in a

49:26.9

49:31.1

meeting like that and you need some help
have you have a point you know if you

49:31.1

49:34.4

couldn’t call a meeting make sure you
have a little bit of agenda and send it

49:34.4

49:38.3

to him say I really would like to talk
about these things because one it

49:38.3

49:42.1

doesn’t waste anybody’s time you keep on
task and then you move through the

49:42.1

49:45.9

problem I think that’s a really good way
yeah and the other thing that does is it

49:45.9

49:51.1

sets expectations awesome yeah and when
you know not only what the other

49:51.1

49:55.9

person’s expectations are but when they
know what yours are you can actually see

49:55.9

49:59.3

if they’re gonna meet or not right and
if they’re not sometimes it’s not the

49:59.3

50:03.3

right fit it’s just that’s how life
works but you know more often than not

50:03.3

50:08.4

people don’t have that conversation
right and that’s where almost every

50:08.4

50:13.4

problem can get traced back to yep and
it’s back to that conflict thing I don’t

50:13.4

50:17.1

think it’s necessarily conflict it’s
just how do we communicate with each

50:17.1

50:22.0

other yeah that’s and it’s a tough it’s
tough and I’m thinking about new

50:22.0

50:26.3

business and I’m thinking about issues
where I’ve worked with either other

50:26.3

50:29.8

water treatment companies owners and
their clients are directly with clients

50:29.8

50:35.6

and it’s always been that expectations
issue where people are so excited when

50:35.6

50:39.4

they get that business they don’t think
about all the things that could create

50:39.4

50:44.8

an issue like we talked about before but
if we talk about that right then when

50:44.8

50:50.0

the sale is made and now we can use the
client and their information to help us

50:50.0

50:54.1

understand what we don’t know they can
help us solve those issues

50:54.1

50:58.5

and we never have those issues are you
know let’s say we do have those issues

50:58.5

51:03.7

but they’re expected and now that issue
comes up and they actually give that A+

51:03.7

51:08.9

in our column because we anticipated
that or they anticipated that and we

51:08.9

51:13.5

knew how to deal with it so I guess my
whole point of that is yeah you got the

51:13.5

51:17.7

sale but make sure you don’t lose the
sale in spite of yourself being so

51:17.7

51:21.2

excited
visualize doing everything through there

51:21.2

51:26.4

and set those expectations like I said
Trace I’ve been successful one by the

51:26.4

51:30.6

follow-through and do we I’m gonna keep
repeating myself do what you say you’re

51:30.6

51:37.0

going to do why is that groundbreaking I
don’t know because I’ve it really

51:37.0

51:41.7

honestly I wish it wasn’t but it is it’s
just you know someone says they’re gonna

51:41.7

51:44.1

fix something someone’s gonna say
they’re gonna do something I just never

51:44.1

51:50.7

gets done and it’s real simple to
irritate someone or to loose your client

51:50.7

51:55.2

will lose confidence in you if it just
doesn’t get done and I’m gonna tell you

51:55.2

52:01.0

this I’m I’ve done it before and I’ve
lost a client and I yeah it was my fault

52:01.0

52:05.7

I walked into his office and I said
you’re right I wish you best of luck I’m

52:05.7

52:08.5

sorry I let you down
shook his hand and said call me back if

52:08.5

52:13.0

you have anything I got a call back I
did because he actually appreciated that

52:13.0

52:17.5

it was a year later but I still got
called back and admit when you’re wrong

52:17.5

52:22.4

that goes a long way admit when you’re
wrong and don’t lie to them so we’re

52:22.4

52:27.0

gonna get into some lightning round
questions oh okay before we do so

52:27.0

52:31.4

somebody’s either just tuning in or
they’re just waiting for that huge

52:31.4

52:37.6

nugget of advice so if there was just
one thing that you want the Scaling UP!

52:37.6

52:42.6

Nation to get from this interview what
is it there’s a lot of opportunity out

52:42.6

52:49.8

there I think someone told me one time
that 90% of all water treatment is done

52:49.8

52:53.4

by regional and local companies out
there there’s the two big ones I think

52:53.4

52:57.6

we all know maybe three big ones and I
think they might have 10 to 15% of

52:57.6

53:02.5

market share okay if we all do our jobs
really well we can all make a tremendous

53:02.5

53:07.5

amount of money but I also want to say
this look for opportunities because

53:07.5

53:09.3

there
our other opportunities and wanted

53:09.3

53:14.0

treatment think outside the box see what
you can do better than someone else and

53:14.0

53:18.5

as we talked about the very beginning
fill that need to find the problem feel

53:18.5

53:22.0

fine find the problem filling in and if
you can figure out a way to do it better

53:22.0

53:25.8

than everybody else do it and it might
cost you money okay

53:25.8

53:30.2

but there’s there’s always risk versus
reward well excellent all right so let’s

53:30.2

53:34.5

go ahead for the first lightning round
question so you see the DeLorean back

53:34.5

53:38.5

there on my shelf there’s not a real
DeLorean but that’s the only a DeLorean

53:38.5

53:41.8

that I have right now so we are going to
get into we’re gonna shrink ourselves

53:41.8

53:46.1

down to get into that model okay we’re
then gonna set the time circuits back to

53:46.1

53:51.0

your very first day as a water treatment
professional you know everything that

53:51.0

53:56.3

you know now and we’re going to share
that information on your very first day

53:56.3

54:01.6

what’s the first piece of advice you
give yourself we all have our days and I

54:01.6

54:05.0

remember my first day as a water treaty
I was with my boss man I told you a

54:05.0

54:10.8

great guy very very intelligent and ask
enough questions and we did eight

54:10.8

54:16.5

buildings that day I wish I would have
said to him can we stop at least at one

54:16.5

54:22.8

and spend three four hours just going
over at all because you got everybody

54:22.8

54:26.6

knows water treatment is not just
treating the water you have to

54:26.6

54:30.3

understand the mechanicals you have to
understand you know where’s the water

54:30.3

54:34.7

going what’s it doing if you understand
that and what trace would you call it

54:34.7

54:41.0

heat efficiency engineers my favored
heat transfer efficiency that’s right

54:41.0

54:45.4

and I agree with you 100%
I think first day of a Water Treaty is

54:45.4

54:50.4

just to slow down and as you get better
you will get quicker but you need to

54:50.4

54:55.0

understand I call it the heart and soul
the operating of the building once you

54:55.0

54:59.2

get that the water treatment makes sense
awesome I love it

54:59.2

55:04.1

what’s the last book you read I’m kind
of an egghead or not egghead I like I

55:04.1

55:09.7

call it mine candy all right I love the
Mitch Rapp novels Vince Flynn you ever

55:09.7

55:11.9

heard of them
I haven’t now I wish I could say if

55:11.9

55:15.8

something cerebral like you know I mean
you know Einstein’s biography or

55:15.8

55:19.6

something like that but I read so much
stuff sometimes I just like to sit in my

55:19.6

55:23.7

chair and read mine candies
I call it a good novel and it’s a CIA

55:23.7

55:28.2

novel any anything with Mitch rap by
Vince Flynn unfortunately he passed away

55:28.2

55:32.9

there’s another another couple books
called this Scott hard math novels that

55:32.9

55:37.2

are still I like you know as my wife
calls him shoot-’em-ups I’m sorry I wish

55:37.2

55:41.2

I was more cerebral in that one but it’s
just great books but they’re mine candy

55:41.2

55:43.7

and it’s lets you turn your mind off
every once a while because I think we

55:43.7

55:47.6

all need it well I got to say I don’t
read them anymore but I read all of them

55:47.6

55:52.6

tom clancy’s both so but I digress we’re
asking you the questions here so

55:52.6

55:56.3

eventually Hollywood’s gonna find out
about your life they’re gonna write a

55:56.3

56:03.4

script they’re gonna make a movie
who plays Brian oh man who plays me they

56:03.4

56:06.9

have to be as good-looking as me I don’t
think that’s possible oh okay let me see

56:06.9

56:11.8

here um you know who I really like is
Christoph Waltz I don’t know if I know

56:11.8

56:14.2

who that is
you ever seen inglorious basterds I

56:14.2

56:16.7

don’t think I have but he won an Oscar
for it

56:16.7

56:20.9

okay everybody else besides you’ll no
credit okay fair enough I just think

56:20.9

56:23.8

he’s a phenomenal actor all right and he
speaks like four or five different

56:23.8

56:28.4

languages he’s just really awesome well
there you go you’ve heard it here django

56:28.4

56:33.4

unchained Quentin Tarantino yeah he he
plays the bounty hunter I know who

56:33.4

56:36.7

you’re talking about
took a while hey I got it alright last

56:36.7

56:41.4

question so you now have the ability to
talk to anybody throughout history who

56:41.4

56:45.3

to be with and why I would like to
actually sit down with my grandfather

56:45.3

56:50.7

again he was a two-star general he
started our family company and grew it

56:50.7

56:54.6

into a massive conglomerate that built
Spectator seedings companies all over

56:54.6

56:58.5

the world I would like to sit down with
him he passed away when I was 11 I like

56:58.5

57:02.2

to sit down with that man again
it’s a great answer so I wish I could

57:02.2

57:09.6

say it was someone really historical but
him he was kind of the founder the the

57:09.6

57:14.0

driving force behind a lot of our
families entrepreneurship I like to pick

57:14.0

57:19.3

his brain again just for an hour there
you go you know and I didn’t notice here

57:19.3

57:24.0

but there is one more question it’s in
small print here now know who’s the best

57:24.0

57:30.6

consultant you’ve ever worked well you
know I know one other consultant that we

57:30.6

57:35.4

do a lot of business with this gonna be
listening Scaling UP! H2O so

57:35.4

57:40.0

you know I think today I’m gonna say
trace Blackmore how’s that well buddy

57:40.0

57:43.1

thanks so much for having on the show
thanks for sharing so much with the

57:43.1

57:48.8

Scaling UP! Nation thanks Trey appreciate
it one nation I hope you can tell that

57:48.8

57:53.9

Brian and I are now good friends and we
joke about that first experience that

57:53.9

57:58.1

when we met each other at the Cracker
Barrel where he almost killed his plate

57:58.1

58:02.8

with his fork and that poor egg in
between the fork and the plate anyway we

58:02.8

58:07.2

went from that to really good friends
and I got to tell you I really respect

58:07.2

58:12.2

Brian as a water treat
I and just amazed that all the things

58:12.2

58:19.0

that he is doing with his company and
he’s making sure that he is not standing

58:19.0

58:24.6

still I think that is the biggest issue
that all of us water treaters have is

58:24.6

58:29.8

that we get to a point in our careers in
our accounts where we’re comfortable and

58:29.8

58:36.3

we just decide to stand still well folks
I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase and I

58:36.3

58:40.1

can’t remember exactly how it goes but
if you’re standing still you’re

58:40.1

58:45.8

technically moving backwards because
someone is always learning more and

58:45.8

58:51.2

doing more and of course if we’re
standing still in our counts entropy is

58:51.2

58:55.1

course is happening and if we are
standing still in our accounts that

58:55.1

58:59.9

chaos of the universe is going on so our
accounts are getting worse if we are

58:59.9

59:05.8

simply just maintaining the status quo
of course our customer is putting more

59:05.8

59:09.7

load on the system there are adding more
machines though make up water quality is

59:09.7

59:14.4

changing and the things that we
installed ten years ago will folks

59:14.4

59:19.0

they’re not as good as the things that
we could install today so whatever it is

59:19.0

59:24.7

if we’re not striving to make our cells
better to make our accounts better to

59:24.7

59:31.2

make our customers understand what it is
that we do better I promise you you are

59:31.2

59:36.8

slipping backwards and eventually you’re
probably not going to have that account

59:36.8

59:43.3

and moreover I promise you do not like
your job if you are just

59:43.3

59:49.2

at the bare minimum you the status quo
you’re not getting excited when you go

59:49.2

59:53.4

to work in the morning because you’re
not learning new things folks my dad

59:53.4

59:58.0

told me that water treatment was an
opportunity each and every day to learn

59:58.0

1:00:04.8

something new and the day that I thought
I knew everything was the day I needed

1:00:04.8

1:00:09.1

to say that I lost respect for this
industry and I perhaps needed to find a

1:00:09.1

1:00:12.9

job in something like retail I can’t he
would always give a different example

1:00:12.9

1:00:15.7

for where I needed to find another job
so I don’t know where retail came from

1:00:15.7

1:00:21.3

but I’m sure he said that at one point
or another so make sure you continuously

1:00:21.3

1:00:26.5

getting better and as you heard Brian
and his company are definitely doing

1:00:26.5

1:00:31.2

that and I know for a fact Brian’s
having more fun now because he is doing

1:00:31.2

1:00:36.4

that by the way it was Brian’s birthday
when he was in the Scaling UP! studio so

1:00:36.4

1:00:42.2

Brian happy birthday from the scaling-up
nation so and of course as being a guest

1:00:42.2

1:00:47.3

on the show and for your birthday
you got that awesome Scaling UP! t-shirt

1:00:47.3

1:00:52.6

that everybody out there in the Scaling UP! H2O Nation wants several of you have

1:00:52.6

1:00:57.6

received those and you’ve sent me some
pictures of you wearing your Scaling UP!

1:00:57.6

1:01:02.8

t-shirt many of you are saying hey I
want that t-shirt how do I get one well

1:01:02.8

1:01:08.5

it’s really simple go to Scaling UP! H2O
comm and you will see on the right-hand

1:01:08.5

1:01:13.4

side of the page there will be a
floating button that will say voice mail

1:01:13.4

1:01:17.0

you click on that you leave me a
voicemail of your question you can leave

1:01:17.0

1:01:21.4

your name you don’t have to leave your
name but you have to leave me a question

1:01:21.4

1:01:27.8

and I air that you will get a t-shirt
now keep in mind I want to have to email

1:01:27.8

1:01:32.4

you get your address all that sort of
stuff so just expect that from me but

1:01:32.4

1:01:39.1

that’s just my little way of thanking
you for giving me some more items to put

1:01:39.1

1:01:45.9

on the Scaling UP! H2O podcast well folks
I hope that in the very least you were

1:01:45.9

1:01:51.5

thinking how do I make myself better and
here’s something that I want to leave

1:01:51.5

1:01:56.3

you with because it’s so easy for us to
become an island and water tree

1:01:56.3

1:02:01.7

because we work so autonomously or out
there we’re driving around in her cars

1:02:01.7

1:02:06.3

we’re going to see a customer then we
leave that customer when we go we drive

1:02:06.3

1:02:12.1

some more and we wash we rinse repeat
it’s so easy for us to become an island

1:02:12.1

1:02:17.2

where we are not associating ourselves
with other people that can make us

1:02:17.2

1:02:22.7

better I’m hoping that this podcast is
helping inspire you to do that it’s

1:02:22.7

1:02:28.8

giving you some things to talk to in
between accounts to make you better but

1:02:28.8

1:02:34.2

imagine if you were talking to a real
person outside of listening to this

1:02:34.2

1:02:39.4

podcast how you can hold each other
accountable of course I’m talking about

1:02:39.4

1:02:45.6

having a mentor you all know out there
in the nation that I owe a lot to the

1:02:45.6

1:02:52.4

people that decided to invest in me as a
water treat and I’m now a better water

1:02:52.4

1:02:57.9

treater because they did invest that
time so if you do not have a mentor I

1:02:57.9

1:03:04.8

want you to put that on your to-do list
and find somebody that will help make

1:03:04.8

1:03:11.7

you better find somebody who you can ask
questions to find somebody who’s going

1:03:11.7

1:03:18.5

to hold your feet to the fire for you to
get certified in the particular industry

1:03:18.5

1:03:23.0

that you are in when it comes to water
treatment so what’s the difference

1:03:23.0

1:03:27.6

between a mentor and a consultant a lot
of people get those confused

1:03:27.6

1:03:32.1

well mentor is somebody that is doing
that just to make the industry better

1:03:32.1

1:03:37.8

just to make you better to maybe give
back to the industry that has given them

1:03:37.8

1:03:43.5

so much so it’s an accountability
partner it’s a friend it’s somebody who

1:03:43.5

1:03:47.7

you can work with to make the water
treatment industry better so that’s kind

1:03:47.7

1:03:52.7

of my loose definition of a mentor where
a consultant normally has some sort of

1:03:52.7

1:03:57.8

financial component to it it normally
has some sort of legal component to that

1:03:57.8

1:04:04.2

but this is somebody that you might
engage to take a really deep look at

1:04:04.2

1:04:09.0

your business and what part of your
business may you use that in well maybe

1:04:09.0

1:04:12.0

it’s an
example like where Brian shared where we

1:04:12.0

1:04:17.5

were looking at specific accounts and
figuring out what we can do that wasn’t

1:04:17.5

1:04:22.5

currently being done or we could tweak
just a little bit and make something

1:04:22.5

1:04:27.7

faster easier cheaper better and
whatever adjectives that you want to add

1:04:27.7

1:04:32.5

there another thing that somebody might
come in to do is they might come in and

1:04:32.5

1:04:38.8

they might look at your books so maybe
this is a business owner and you know

1:04:38.8

1:04:42.7

that you’ve got money in your checking
account but besides that you really

1:04:42.7

1:04:49.8

don’t know what your financial data is
telling you about now folks if you don’t

1:04:49.8

1:04:55.3

own a company and you don’t know what
your personal finances look like you are

1:04:55.3

1:04:59.8

in the same boat and you don’t need to
hire somebody like me to help you with

1:04:59.8

1:05:05.2

that but I would advise you to go to a
financial advisor and somebody that you

1:05:05.2

1:05:09.9

can trust maybe you interview a couple
of them and make sure you know what your

1:05:09.9

1:05:16.1

personal finances are saying about you
your retirement your spending habits

1:05:16.1

1:05:21.6

about everything that you are working
towards now for those business owners

1:05:21.6

1:05:28.5

out there if you cannot take metrics out
of how you’re keeping score with your

1:05:28.5

1:05:35.5

bookkeeping you are missing a tremendous
opportunity to tell you where your

1:05:35.5

1:05:39.9

company is going and when you make
slight adjustments these metrics will

1:05:39.9

1:05:45.4

now tell you if something is working or
not so I tell you there is a wealth of

1:05:45.4

1:05:51.8

information in numbers you just have to
know where to look and one of my

1:05:51.8

1:05:56.9

favorite books is the e myth and the e
myth talks about how people that are

1:05:56.9

1:06:01.0

really good technicians ie water
treaters he doesn’t mention water

1:06:01.0

1:06:06.1

treaters by the way but I am they’re
very good at treating water but they’re

1:06:06.1

1:06:12.2

not good they never been taught on how
to run a business so that’s nothing to

1:06:12.2

1:06:17.0

be ashamed of I’ve worked with many
coaches I’ve taken many classes I’ve

1:06:17.0

1:06:20.0

read many books because I was never
taught

1:06:20.0

1:06:25.8

what to do with our numbers I was never
taught on how to forecast based on our

1:06:25.8

1:06:30.6

numbers I was never taught on how to
pull different numbers out of our number

1:06:30.6

1:06:35.6

so I had to seek that so don’t feel bad
about that and when I work with people a

1:06:35.6

1:06:39.1

lot of times they kind of feel like they
failed because they didn’t see this oh

1:06:39.1

1:06:43.0

they didn’t see that well folks you
didn’t fail because you’re seeing it now

1:06:43.0

1:06:48.8

and you’ve taken that step to make
yourself to make your company better so

1:06:48.8

1:06:54.4

I really hope that you’re thinking
outside of the box now when it stays to

1:06:54.4

1:07:00.1

being the status quo and you’re thinking
how can I personally make myself better

1:07:00.1

1:07:04.8

how can I make the customers account
better how can I make the industry

1:07:04.8

1:07:09.9

better how can I make my company better
folks thanks so much for listening this

1:07:09.9

1:07:15.9

week and I will talk to you next week on
Scaling UP! H2O

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