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0:08.0
0:12.7
welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
where we’re Scaling UP! H2O on knowledge so
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0:18.4
we don’t Scale UP! our systems Scaling UP!
Nation Trace Blackmore here and we are
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0:24.8
doing answers from the audience of
course I call that pinks and blues this
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0:30.9
is where you write in a question to me
and I try to answer it the best that I
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0:35.9
can now I’m gonna go ahead and do
another show that’s all themed around
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0:42.4
particular types of questions and these
are all questions based on testing so
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0:46.7
you’re out there you’re a water treat
you are trying to figure out what’s
0:46.7
0:50.2
going on in the system and of course you
do that by your powers of observations
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0:55.1
what do you see that’s different between
this time and last time from your visit
0:55.1
1:00.3
you get all of that information and now
you’re gonna grab a water sample and
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1:04.3
you’re going to start testing it we
already know that we want to make sure
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1:10.3
that that water sample is not off of a
low-flow area that that water sample is
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1:14.9
indicative of all the water that is
floating around that is circulating
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1:20.0
around this system so we can get a good
accurate sample so we’re gonna assume
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1:24.8
that all of that has taken place and the
next thing we’re gonna do when we get
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1:28.7
into our test kit or even when we’re
taking samples especially when the
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1:32.4
samples are hot or they might be in a
dangerous location we want to make sure
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1:38.7
that we have all of our PPE in place
that’s personal protective equipment and
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1:44.9
what that does that protects us that
gives us a barrier for getting hurt now
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1:49.6
one of the things that I see far too
often that I don’t like is people going
1:49.6
1:54.3
into the mechanical rooms and they don’t
have hearing protection folks the
1:54.3
1:59.4
equipment in those mechanical rooms is
loud and if you know somebody that’s
1:59.4
2:05.1
been in this industry for a long long
time they probably have some sort of
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2:10.2
hearing loss let’s learn from their
mistake and make sure that you have
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2:15.2
hearing protection each time you go into
these rooms yes it might make it
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2:20.9
difficult for you to talk to your
customer yes it might feel different yes
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2:25.1
you might not
like having hearing protection on but
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2:32.0
wouldn’t you prefer all those
inconveniences to losing some or all of
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2:37.8
your hearing same thing with your eyes
folks make sure that if you are working
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2:43.4
as an industrial water treater you are
using eye protection it just takes a
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2:50.0
second for something to get in your eye
that could change your life permanently
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2:54.8
and then the last thing I’ll mention
about that is gloves folks if you’re not
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2:59.1
carrying around nitrile gloves with you
and I say nitrile because I’m not a big
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3:03.5
fan of latex a lot of people are
allergic to latex nitrile is very
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3:06.3
compatible with pretty much everything
that we would have in our industrial
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3:10.7
water treatment test kit if you are not
putting on gloves before you open up
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3:15.5
your test kit there’s just no reason to
take that risk and don’t think there’s
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3:20.8
not nasty stuff in that test kit because
you’re carrying it around if you get
3:20.8
3:26.5
some of that stuff on you it is not good
so make sure you take care of yourself
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3:31.4
before you take care of anything else
now here are a couple of questions now
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3:37.2
that I’ve gotten off of my sScaling UP! H2O soap box that people have written in
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3:43.0
so my first question is from an earlier
episode and the person is asking about
3:43.0
3:47.9
when iron interferes with a hardness
test and I’m sure we’ve all had this
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3:54.7
issue happen we just can’t get an
endpoint on our hardness tests so on an
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3:59.5
earlier show I shared a tip that
somebody shared with me and they were
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4:03.4
asking me to go back through that so Oh
fine I will do that so you’ve got
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4:09.1
different reagents in your hardness test
kit one you’ve got a buffer because
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4:15.1
we’ve got to bring that pH up to a
certain pH in order for the stuff to
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4:20.7
work then we have some sort of color
indicator that we add and that tells us
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4:26.8
when we’ve hit that setpoint typically
that goes from red to blue I think
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4:30.8
that’s where the term pinks and blues
came from and then finally we have an
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4:37.8
eID ETA ethylene diamine tetra sida Cass
that will simply cover up all of the
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4:42.3
hardness and when all that hardness is
bound up with that EDTA it changes the
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4:46.8
color and we can translate that into
parts per million well in this issue
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4:52.8
we’re just never getting there or it’s a
lot higher than we can back calculate it
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4:58.8
for it to be so what is going on with
that well nine times out of ten it’s
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5:03.0
normally because we have high iron and
there’s no mystery about that run an
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5:08.4
iron test and see how high your iron is
and if it is an iron issue you’ve got a
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5:12.7
couple of options with this anytime you
have something that’s interfering with
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5:17.5
your test you can always dilute that
interfere out so that’s why we carry
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5:24.5
deionized water in with our tests kits
is so we can dilute the sample and get
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5:28.2
whatever is interfering to a low enough
point where it’s not going to interfere
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5:31.9
with it and then we just need to
multiply however we diluted it back up I
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5:37.0
think I talked about that on an earlier
episode but in this specific technique
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5:43.1
what you’re doing is you’re adding one
drop of EDTA before you do anything else
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5:47.9
and you’re going to count that drop
later so when you start your testing if
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5:51.7
you put one drop in you’re gonna start
at two drops but what that does that
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5:56.5
starts to bind up any of those metals or
whatever the interfere is which in this
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6:02.3
case it’s iron in that test so it’s not
gonna interfere when we’re going after
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6:05.7
the calcium then we’re gonna run our
test exactly like we would before
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6:11.0
putting our buffer in putting our color
indicator in and then titrating with
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6:15.5
EDTA but again we’re gonna start with
the second drop or if you’re using a
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6:20.9
digital tie trader you’re not gonna
reset your dial in between preparing and
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6:26.4
that first drop so when you do that in
your procedure you should get to that
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6:31.0
end point a lot quicker and a lot
clearer so hopefully that will help you
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6:35.9
out another person ask a question that
can I just do this as part of my regular
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6:41.6
procedure well no I wouldn’t advise that
because you are deviating from how that
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6:46.1
test was developed and you’re doing that
because there’s a problem if you don’t
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6:49.3
have that problem
there’s no reason to deviate from your
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6:54.0
test methods remember every time you
deviate from the standard test method
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7:00.6
you’re adding another variable in that
could throw off your test if we change
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7:05.1
the dilution if we add DI water if we
change the order of reagent so those are
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7:10.7
all things that could potentially change
the end result of the final test so you
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7:15.0
don’t want to do that if you don’t have
to do that another person writes in and
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7:21.8
they ask why are they getting such bad
results on their sulfite and there was a
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7:25.4
long email that came with this instead
of reading the whole thing I’m going to
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7:29.4
sum it up basically they don’t have a
sample cooler on their boiler their
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7:33.9
sulfite results were always extremely
high and they figured they didn’t have
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7:38.2
any issues when they opened up that
boiler they saw pitting and that was
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7:43.2
oxygen pitting and if you’ve ever seen
oxygen pitting on a firetube boiler it
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7:48.8
looks like somebody took a shotgun and
just shot it that is exclusively what
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7:54.0
oxygen pitting looks like and they want
to know how could this be because they
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7:58.1
were running their sulfite tests and it
always said that they had plenty of
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8:01.6
reserve sulfite remember when we run a
test
8:01.6
8:06.3
it’s the reserve that we have so we’re
not testing what’s already been used up
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8:12.2
it’s what we have to be used in the
system so I talked to this person and we
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8:18.0
found out that they were taking a very
hot boiler sample and then they were
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8:23.4
immediately testing for sulfite and
folks if you do this this is not
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8:28.1
following the procedure it specifically
says in the procedure that for sulfite
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8:34.4
you have to cool your test and the rule
of thumb that I’ve always heard is less
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8:39.1
than a hundred degrees and a good friend
of the show good friend of mine Mark
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8:45.7
Lewis he carries a special bottle where
he can cap and then throw in a bucket of
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8:50.5
ice if there is no sample cooler because
what’s going on there if you have a hot
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8:54.7
sample and you start doing the sulfite
test well folks that’s a starch test
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8:59.1
it’s a starch test and you put iodine on
it and then that’s what creates that
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9:01.1
black color
well the starch
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9:05.6
comes from potatoes so essentially what
you’re doing is you’re cooking the
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9:10.9
potatoes and there’s not enough starch
in there to react with the iodine and
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9:16.3
you’re thinking you have more sulfite in
your sample than you actually do very
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9:22.6
simple easy way for you to fix this
problem and it’s to cool your sample now
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9:28.1
I don’t understand why it’s not a code
that every single boiler have a sample
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9:33.1
cooler on it for heaven’s sakes
engineers look out for the water treater
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9:38.7
we don’t like it and burned just like
anybody else put a 200 dollar sample
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9:43.7
cooler on that boiler and just make them
standard and we would never have this
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9:48.1
problem but there’s so many boilers out
there that don’t have sample coolers my
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9:53.2
first recommendation is you sell your
customer a sample cooler but the thing
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9:58.2
that will work each and every time is to
make sure that your sample is cool and
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10:02.3
the hottest that the sample you ever
want in anything you test is a hundred
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10:05.9
degrees
normally room temperature is is the
10:05.9
10:10.4
ideal but if it helps you a hundred
degrees is absolutely the hottest you
10:10.4
10:14.4
ever want to get that test so once you
do that you’re gonna get a more accurate
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10:21.3
sulfite reading and folks don’t look at
your test as the end-all be-all of
10:21.3
10:26.7
what’s going on in the system testing is
just one additional thing that you can
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10:32.9
do to grab more data from the system but
you’re using your powers of observation
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10:39.0
along with the testing when I talk to
this person there was no reason for him
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10:43.8
to assume that his tests were right
because when I looked at the logs of how
10:43.8
10:50.4
much product was being used on a weekly
basis there was not enough sulfite based
10:50.4
10:55.1
on the temperature of that water for it
to be that high so he should have
10:55.1
11:00.6
immediately said I’m not feeding enough
product my test does not seem to verify
11:00.6
11:04.4
that the little product that I’m feeding
is putting that much soft light in the
11:04.4
11:09.7
boiler so that should have keyed him off
that there was a problem so use
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11:14.1
everything you have available to you
including your
11:14.1
11:19.9
to verify your test and then you will be
able to use your test better and more
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11:24.9
effectively I’ve received several
questions around spectrophotometers and
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11:28.4
I’m really happy that more and more
people are investing in themselves
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11:33.4
investing in their companies and they’re
using spectrophotometry and what that is
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11:38.7
that takes the guesswork out of what
color is that I might see red a little
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11:41.6
different than somebody else somebody
else might see blue a little bit
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11:45.6
different than how I see it
so what a spectrophotometer is is we
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11:50.7
prepare a sample it shoots a wave of
light into that sample and then on the
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11:56.1
other side of that it has a sensor to
see how much of that light was absorbed
11:56.1
12:02.0
and it translates that into parts per
million and the number one issue that I
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12:07.2
see with this type of equipment is that
it’s dirty folks if you put your sample
12:07.2
12:13.8
cells down on a dirty floor and then put
that dirty flask into your nice
12:13.8
12:18.9
expensive spectrophotometer well that
spectrophotometer is now dirty so I
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12:23.3
suggest that you have better habits on
how you handle your sample cells so they
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12:28.4
don’t get that dirty and I also
recommend that you clean those on a
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12:33.4
regular basis the cruddy or your
glassware is the cruddy or your results
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12:38.3
are going to be but this person
specifically asked if you can use a DI
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12:45.0
Blanc so they got di water in their test
kit and they want to use di as a blank
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12:50.3
in their spectrophotometer instead of
using the sample water let me try to
12:50.3
12:53.3
explain this a little bit better in case
you’re not tracking with what they’re
12:53.3
12:56.8
saying when you’re using a
spectrophotometer you have to put an
12:56.8
13:02.8
unprepared sample into the device shoot
the wave a light through it and now it
13:02.8
13:07.8
knows without anything prepared in the
sample so if I’m doing an iron test I’m
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13:11.0
going to put something in there to
prepare it to test for iron it wants to
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13:16.5
know in the absence of that what can it
expect to go through that water and
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13:22.5
somewhere in the water treatment
community we started using dummy samples
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13:27.9
to try to make our
less on those accounts so the answer is
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13:35.7
it’s not preferred because again you’re
using a deviation from the actual way
13:35.7
13:39.7
that the test was written or the
procedures were written but here’s the
13:39.7
13:45.2
short of it if you are testing say a
cooling tower or system that is just
13:45.2
13:50.5
perfectly clear you might be able to get
away with it what you need to be able to
13:50.5
13:56.7
do is realize when you can’t and I’ve
looked at this and I’ve actually used
13:56.7
14:01.5
this technique awhile ago and what I
found was I didn’t really save that much
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14:07.0
time if I had a repeatable procedure
where my muscle memory I didn’t even
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14:12.9
have to think about how I was running my
tests I could do one sample blank and
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14:17.4
folks it’s not that much more time
involved in pouring a sample blank than
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14:22.6
it is to squirt in your DI bottle so my
advice to you is that you follow the
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14:28.4
directions the way that the directions
are written and with any test whenever
14:28.4
14:34.1
you deviate from that you are asking for
potential issues that you may not
14:34.1
14:40.3
realize that they’re there now if you
have a sample that you know without a
14:40.3
14:43.9
doubt that there’s no difference go
ahead and do it and if you’re curious
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14:50.5
run both and see what the difference is
that’s the cool thing about our test and
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14:54.2
I get so many questions can I do this
what happens if I put this with that
14:54.2
14:58.8
well folks try it if you do want exactly
the way it’s supposed to be done and
14:58.8
15:02.3
especially if you have a sample where
you know what it’s supposed to be
15:02.3
15:06.5
testing has and then you run your
different ways of running the test
15:06.5
15:12.2
you’ll be able to find out very quickly
whether your hypothesis of making that
15:12.2
15:17.1
change will work or not so I hope that
helps and I want to thank all those
15:17.1
15:22.3
people for asking those questions to me
folks if there’s one thing that I can
15:22.3
15:28.5
leave you with is that your test kit is
a tool I have seen so many water
15:28.5
15:32.8
treaters get out of their car go into
the mechanical room spend the entire
15:32.8
15:37.3
time in
their test kit it write a report and
15:37.3
15:43.2
then they leave folks that’s not our job
but what we can’t hire is somebody that
15:43.2
15:48.7
understands all the aspects of water
treatment like the true water treatment
15:48.7
15:54.3
professional I’ll say it again water
treatment professionals use their powers
15:54.3
16:00.7
of observation to see everything that’s
going on in that system since the last
16:00.7
16:04.6
time that they were there they’re
looking at the equipment they’re
16:04.6
16:08.1
checking how much product was used
they’re talking to the people that are
16:08.1
16:15.0
on-site each and every day to find out
if there was a change and then after
16:15.0
16:18.9
they’ve already made an assumption of
what’s going on in the system that’s
16:18.9
16:25.3
when you get your tests out I already
know what my tests should be before I
16:25.3
16:31.7
even open my test kit and then I’m using
my tests to either verify or disprove
16:31.7
16:36.3
what I think is going on in the system
and then I’ve got to figure out the whys
16:36.3
16:42.1
of whatever I found out was going on
then I make those changes I talked with
16:42.1
16:45.6
a customer I make sure that any changes
that they need to help me with or be
16:45.6
16:51.0
aware of they are doing and then when I
come next time when I’m looking at
16:51.0
16:54.7
what’s going on in the system I’m
looking at the changes that I made last
16:54.7
16:59.5
time and make sure that all those
changes did take place and then finally
16:59.5
17:03.9
I’m running my tests and I’m hoping that
I see those positive results folks
17:03.9
17:08.8
thanks again for asking those questions
thanks for listening to Scaling UP! H2O
17:08.8
17:15.3
and if you have a question and you want
to get it answered on Scaling UP! H2O go
17:15.3
17:20.9
to Scaling UP! H2O dot com ask me your
question or you can leave me a voicemail
17:20.9
17:25.8
it folks if you do that I will give you
a t-shirt and you will be able to wear
17:25.8
17:29.8
that and you will be the envy of all
your water treatment friends but at
17:29.8
17:34.1
least make sure that you are asking me
questions because folks I’m doing a
17:34.1
17:38.3
weekly episode and I need all the
information that I can get have a great
17:38.3
17:45.2
week folks and I’ll talk to you next
time