The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.0
0:12.6
welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast for
water treaters by water treaters where
0:12.6
0:16.5
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems hi folks
0:16.5
0:21.9
Trace Blackmore here your host for
Scaling UP! and I am so excited we are
0:21.9
0:27.8
welcoming Kevin cope back Kevin cope was
so gracious to teach us all about
0:27.8
0:32.6
wastewater systems and it was just so
much information we couldn’t pack it in
0:32.6
0:38.2
just one show we have it in two shows
and folks I don’t want to keep going on
0:38.2
0:44.4
so you have to wait any longer
please welcome Kevin Cote back for part
0:44.4
0:50.8
two of our waste water series my
returning lab partner is Kevin cope of
0:50.8
0:55.5
Brent AG North America and folks I know
you’re tuning in because last week you
0:55.5
1:01.2
heard the best definition possible of
what you can expect to see in a
1:01.2
1:06.2
wastewater plant well today Kevin is
back and he’s going to share with us
1:06.2
1:11.7
what a water treatment professional
needs to do during the survey process
1:11.7
1:16.5
are you ready for this Kevin I am I’m
definitely ready all right so why don’t
1:16.5
1:20.0
you just take it from there you did a
great job explaining all the equipment
1:20.0
1:26.4
so we’ve all visually toured the plant
now we’re coming out with our brain and
1:26.4
1:30.5
we’re putting our brain to what we
learned last week and how do we help the
1:30.5
1:34.5
customer how do we solve problems how do
we even begin to know what the problems
1:34.5
1:39.0
are well that’s the great way to start
we already understand now the potential
1:39.0
1:42.5
pieces of equipment that someone could
see when they go to a typical waste
1:42.5
1:46.2
treatment plant we’ve already asked the
questions on what are you trying to do
1:46.2
1:52.0
we’re trying to decrease sludge
dewatering meet discharge limits or you
1:52.0
1:55.0
know reduce costs we already already
know that so now we walk through the
1:55.0
1:58.7
plant the first thing we want to do when
we walk through a plant any plant is
1:58.7
2:04.5
collect as much data as possible I loved
as you guys all know I’m an artist so I
2:04.5
2:09.2
always draw the plant you know one place
at a time I’m not real good at reading
2:09.2
2:13.7
the engineering diagram so it’s better
if I can draw circles and clarifier and
2:13.7
2:17.3
things along this line I also when I’m
walking through the plant I look for
2:17.3
2:21.1
sampling points where do I get samples
what samples can I take
2:21.1
2:26.0
how are you treating this you know I
read the issues a lot of times I’ll ask
2:26.0
2:30.8
the operators two about issues they’re
having not just necessarily what you
2:30.8
2:34.3
know the contact is said you know what
are other issues you’re having well
2:34.3
2:37.8
we’re having issues making this polymer
dot it just doesn’t go into solution
2:37.8
2:42.5
very well or you know these pumps just
we’re constantly losing prime on these
2:42.5
2:47.3
pumps whatever the case may be
so I also when I’m touring a plant I’ll
2:47.3
2:51.4
ask you know not only will I know the
issues that the decision makers trying
2:51.4
2:56.9
to to achieve meet discharge limits I’ll
ask the operators because you know one
2:56.9
2:59.8
of the things that’s going to come up
and you know it’s gonna come up too and
2:59.8
3:04.3
bitter on the discussion is have money
treatments ever been sabotaged well they
3:04.3
3:08.0
have but if you start working with the
with the operators and really get to
3:08.0
3:12.0
know these guys and and and women
wherever the case may be get to know
3:12.0
3:15.8
them you know you start understanding
what their concerns are and why they
3:15.8
3:19.4
like them maybe the company that’s in
there or what to cut me in there isn’t
3:19.4
3:23.3
doing and really focus a little bit on
that so once you’ve determined the
3:23.3
3:26.7
issues and you know you’ve walked
through the plant now you want to run
3:26.7
3:32.3
some dark jar tests and this I still
like the Gangstar it you get your
3:32.3
3:36.4
gangster out according to trace and you
you start to run some tests with your
3:36.4
3:41.6
gangster all right again I was like ten
years old and my defense my father was
3:41.6
3:45.2
introducing equipment I had no idea what
it was being used for and I thought he
3:45.2
3:50.6
said gangster no listen I I think it’s
great as you know I steal from people so
3:50.6
3:54.6
I’m gonna use that the next please wait
for a training class you know the first
3:54.6
3:58.8
thing you want to do is verify the
current program does the program work in
3:58.8
4:03.1
the jars like it works in the system you
know what are the differences are to
4:03.1
4:08.0
sludge bit is this fought bigger any
jars or smaller in the yards then they
4:08.0
4:11.9
settle faster so you really want to
verify the current program and its
4:11.9
4:16.6
effectiveness and understand exactly
what that program is doing and what it
4:16.6
4:21.4
isn’t doing you know it isn’t meaning
discharge limits or it’s not Hickey
4:21.4
4:25.1
picking up all the pin flock whatever
the case may be you already know this
4:25.1
4:30.3
but in your jars you kind of want to
verify that to see how you know what
4:30.3
4:34.6
it’s doing and then once you know that
then you want to verify what your
4:34.6
4:39.8
Oh Graham can do to make it better how
can your program so Kevin the starting
4:39.8
4:42.9
point is that always the current program
is that where you want to start
4:42.9
4:47.6
typically for me it is I mean a lot of
times they won’t give you the polymer
4:47.6
4:51.6
from the competitor to run your tests
but if they do I always like to run that
4:51.6
4:56.4
first just so I could visually look at
what they’re doing if they weld in in
4:56.4
5:01.2
many cases they won’t then you just
start out running the jar test looking
5:01.2
5:05.4
again always remembering in the back of
your mind you know we’re trying to meet
5:05.4
5:10.5
lead or we’re trying to get better
settling what am I trying to do you know
5:10.5
5:15.0
so ideally it’s nice to run the
competitors program first if that’s
5:15.0
5:19.8
impossible
jar test with inline what are you trying
5:19.8
5:24.4
to achieve you know am i trying to
reduce sludge can I go from an inorganic
5:24.4
5:29.8
coagulant coagulant to reduce flood is
that something that’s possible
5:29.8
5:34.5
so when you’re doing your test if you
can’t run the competitors program
5:34.5
5:40.2
remember what you’re trying to do what
am I trying to improve the issue of I
5:40.2
5:46.6
always have is there’s so many variables
involved so I try to come up with a
5:46.6
5:51.4
process and I don’t think I’ve ever have
come up with a process I like so I ask
5:51.4
5:56.8
you this question what is your process
at this step to make sure you cut out
5:56.8
6:02.5
some of the variables so you’re working
towards a solution faster well my the
6:02.5
6:07.4
way I like to do it I always like to do
this and I talked about this on the very
6:07.4
6:12.2
first one we did for industrial water
week I like to go out and physically
6:12.2
6:17.6
sample and look at what’s happening in
the plant what does the flock look like
6:17.6
6:22.8
what does a settling look like and even
again now with the new digital cameras
6:22.8
6:26.4
you can do listen to me
you can take pictures and get a sense on
6:26.4
6:31.1
how fast it’s settling even take a
little video I like that process I think
6:31.1
6:37.4
those cameras have been out for 20 plus
years yeah I guess you’re right they’re
6:37.4
6:41.5
like like kids will listen to this and
tease me about it but but I I really
6:41.5
6:46.8
like doing that I really like to
visually look at what they’re doing you
6:46.8
6:50.1
know what what is
happening and then my process and and I
6:50.1
6:54.4
and I wrote a paper on how I do my Jar
test and I do my Jar testing the same
6:54.4
6:59.4
way every time you know I start out with
the coagulants the primary chemistry’s
6:59.4
7:04.3
for coagulants and i’ve zero in on those
and then and well let’s step back if
7:04.3
7:08.7
you’re doing precipitation i look at the
best way to precipitate house the best
7:08.7
7:12.7
way to precipitate nickel house the best
way to precipitate phosphate whatever
7:12.7
7:17.7
the case may be that’s the first step
second step then is coagulation i go
7:17.7
7:21.7
through the exact same chemicals every
time i start with the organic chemicals
7:21.7
7:26.0
then I go to the inorganic chemicals
coagulants then I go to flocculants I
7:26.0
7:30.6
look at a charge I look at the different
charges which is the best charge then I
7:30.6
7:35.9
worked to best charge density and best
molecular way I do it the same way every
7:35.9
7:38.5
time
and everybody has her own way of doing
7:38.5
7:43.5
it I’m not saying mine is right this is
what works for me but when I’m doing my
7:43.5
7:48.6
tests I always try to visualize what
does it look like in the plant that it’s
7:48.6
7:53.6
settled very quickly did it settle
slowly I want to I want to mimic that or
7:53.6
7:57.6
be better than that
or improve on what they’re trying to do
7:57.6
8:01.2
we’re not getting enough we’re not
getting enough nickel out of the plant
8:01.2
8:06.3
so now I go back I look is it a
precipitation problem or is it a flag
8:06.3
8:11.9
ulation problem flocculation problem and
so I’m a big fan of when I’m running my
8:11.9
8:17.3
Jar test a lot after I run a jar and go
out and physically look at the plant I
8:17.3
8:21.0
mean that’s nice if you can be at the
plant doing a test there if you can’t
8:21.0
8:26.1
when you’re touring the plant look at
how quickly flock occurs how big the
8:26.1
8:30.7
flock is you know how wet is the sludge
look at all these things to get a handle
8:30.7
8:36.0
on when you go back to do your Jar test
how do i improve on that enough that
8:36.0
8:39.8
that answers but that’s kind of the way
I’ve I’ve done it I’ve always done it I
8:39.8
8:44.7
think it’s a great way to answer it and
I think the bottom line is is you the
8:44.7
8:48.5
individual have to come up with a method
and you need to stick to that method
8:48.5
8:52.1
otherwise you’re going to be all over
the map and chasing your tail yeah
8:52.1
8:58.5
that’s that’s really comes into a great
point is to often listen I’m as guilty
8:58.5
9:02.3
of it as the next person some
starts to work and you get excited you
9:02.3
9:06.9
know I mean you just like wow this is
great or you know and and you vary from
9:06.9
9:12.0
what you typically do and I always try
to pull myself back and say no go
9:12.0
9:14.8
through your steps
do it properly you’re the right way to
9:14.8
9:18.7
do by doing it and then and then you
just feel better that you you you’ve
9:18.7
9:22.5
actually accomplished something it’s
hard I got to be the first to a minute
9:22.5
9:27.8
when when I started doing a lot of my
specialty is really removing oil from
9:27.8
9:32.3
water I absolutely love to be involved
with removing oil from water just just I
9:32.3
9:36.5
find it fascinating and when I first
started and I started seeing some trends
9:36.5
9:40.4
and things along this line I would just
get so excited that I would just like
9:40.4
9:43.9
quitting wait to run to add the next
chemical to see what happened but I
9:43.9
9:48.8
eventually I realized no I’ve got to
settle myself I’ve got to do it the same
9:48.8
9:53.8
way every time so now that when I feel
when I’m done I feel very confident that
9:53.8
10:00.1
I can verify exactly what I did and and
it’s hard I especially when things are
10:00.1
10:04.2
going really well you know it were
conversely when things were going really
10:04.2
10:07.2
poorly
you’re constantly let’s try this let’s
10:07.2
10:11.4
try this but if you get if you come up
with a mechanism that works for you or a
10:11.4
10:15.9
procedure that works for you I think
that’s the the key to really becoming
10:15.9
10:20.9
you know a you know a person that can be
very valuable in a waste treatment plant
10:20.9
10:26.5
but again I and Kevin I got to
underscore that for the people out there
10:26.5
10:31.6
listening in the Scaling UP! nation that
have done waste water they are all
10:31.6
10:35.7
nodding their heads I can see them from
here and saying yes absolutely you have
10:35.7
10:40.0
to make sure you follow through that
procedure because you might have only
10:40.0
10:44.7
gotten it to one point but because you
went further you’ve wasted a lot of time
10:44.7
10:49.1
and then you had to back up to that
point and duplicate all your efforts so
10:49.1
10:54.1
for the new folks out there I think
that’s the biggest piece of advice that
10:54.1
11:00.0
you can start right from the start with
is to make sure you always follow those
11:00.0
11:04.4
procedures and you make sure you get it
right before you move on to the next
11:04.4
11:10.2
step I can’t tell you how much time I’ve
wasted because I get excited too you
11:10.2
11:13.8
know you know I do the waste treatment
plant
11:13.8
11:19.6
training with Steve litter Rick brusque
and Dave Ritz and each one of us have a
11:19.6
11:23.8
little different way of doing it and
some of them are very subtle some are
11:23.8
11:29.0
very dramatic but it works for all of it
just because I like the way I do mine
11:29.0
11:35.2
doesn’t mean that that’s the way for you
and so we we we all kind of you know we
11:35.2
11:38.4
joke around a little bit about this but
we all have a little slightly different
11:38.4
11:42.4
way of doing it but for the most part
it’s a procedure that we feel very
11:42.4
11:46.9
comfortable with when we’re doing our
testing and therefore we feel very
11:46.9
11:52.3
comfortable we come to the end that what
we’ve done is correct okay and again
11:52.3
11:56.7
it’s slightly different but find your
own way of doing it and then stick with
11:56.7
12:00.9
it you know as long as it’s correct you
know me but you know find your own way
12:00.9
12:04.9
the way you feel most comfortable with
you know and do it that way every time I
12:04.9
12:08.4
mean that’s just that’s something and
again that’s me I mean so that’s the way
12:08.4
12:13.6
I’ve done it for the most part I see
Steven and Dave and Rick doing it their
12:13.6
12:17.9
way but the same way every time
so Kevin if you don’t mind I’m gonna
12:17.9
12:22.1
take a little tangent for a second and
the people that you just mentioned
12:22.1
12:27.3
including yourself do the Association of
Water Technologies waste water training
12:27.3
12:35.0
and you guys do that for a fee of zero
to the AWT and one of the reasons that I
12:35.0
12:40.2
started this podcast was I wanted to
raise the bar in the in the industrial
12:40.2
12:44.0
water treatment industry and now it’s
gone to the entire water treatment
12:44.0
12:49.4
industry but you guys are doing that
with wastewater and I know there’s so
12:49.4
12:52.6
many people out there that don’t realize
that so I want to take this opportunity
12:52.6
12:58.4
since I’m talking to you too thank you
for raising the bar in the water
12:58.4
13:02.8
treatment industry well thank you I
think I can speak for the other three
13:02.8
13:07.9
Dave and Steve and Rick we just really
enjoy I mean we enjoy the four of us
13:07.9
13:12.5
enjoyed getting together we enjoy seeing
the challenges that we’ve put forth
13:12.5
13:17.1
every time we enjoy working with the
people whether it being veterans or
13:17.1
13:20.9
being new people we just really have a
good time and we we jokingly say you
13:20.9
13:24.8
know in our class and you know we do
this we always tease you know you guys
13:24.8
13:28.0
you’re doing a boiler
water class they say hey you’re having a
13:28.0
13:31.8
lot more fun over in the wastewater but
we just have a really good time doing it
13:31.8
13:35.7
and it’s so rewarding
you know for all of us to see you know
13:35.7
13:39.3
people will call us after class and say
hey how do we do this how do we do that
13:39.3
13:44.6
and again it’s it we get back more than
we put in on at least I do and it’s just
13:44.6
13:48.7
it’s appreciate the comments but it just
it’s just a lot of fun and I I really
13:48.7
13:51.9
look forward to seeing those three guys
you know we get to see each other you
13:51.9
13:55.6
know every other year it looks like it’s
gonna be started being every year now
13:55.6
14:00.0
but just really enjoy seeing them and
really enjoy you know one the class is
14:00.0
14:03.7
over you know all the comments and the
people we get to meet so thank you but
14:03.7
14:08.4
it’s been a great time you got a great
time well you guys do a great job but
14:08.4
14:15.5
let’s get back to our issue at hand so
now we’re in the jar testing part of our
14:15.5
14:20.4
process where do we go from here well
let’s say let’s say butt jar testing is
14:20.4
14:24.0
over we’ve come up with a program you
feel very confident we go into the
14:24.0
14:28.1
customer explain you know here’s what
our program can do compared to what
14:28.1
14:33.6
you’re doing now or here’s how that said
let me also recommend that you can also
14:33.6
14:38.2
jar test your own accounts you know jar
test your own accounts and say hey
14:38.2
14:41.5
here’s what we’re doing right now I
think we can improve by doing this so I
14:41.5
14:44.6
don’t want this always saying it’s like
you know you’re going in and competing
14:44.6
14:49.4
with someone you’re can also be
competing with yourself how do i improve
14:49.4
14:53.8
this because your competition is always
looking how can I improve what you’re
14:53.8
14:56.9
doing
so think of that all so that you can jar
14:56.9
15:02.0
test periodically to say how can I make
my program better so be clear there
15:02.0
15:06.3
let’s say we figured out a way to make
the program better be it the competitors
15:06.3
15:10.3
or be it yours the next thing you want
to do is present this to the customer
15:10.3
15:15.4
and explain to them why your program is
better where will they benefit what what
15:15.4
15:18.7
will happen you know we’re going to
change this precipitant it is more
15:18.7
15:23.9
effective on on Zink than it is than the
one you’re using now so I recommend
15:23.9
15:28.7
let’s change the specifically and then
present that to the customer in a very
15:28.7
15:34.0
timely very well organized manner and
then ask for you know basically ask for
15:34.0
15:38.1
a trial and you’re it’s let’s just for
the sake of this discussion you’re
15:38.1
15:40.9
granted
eyal you know you want to make sure you
15:40.9
15:43.7
bring the appropriate amount of chemical
and you want to make sure you bring the
15:43.7
15:48.4
right product in you want to make sure
you understand what the feed systems are
15:48.4
15:52.5
do you have to bring in feed systems can
you use the feed systems that are in
15:52.5
15:56.1
there now if you’re gonna use the feed
systems in there now make sure they’re
15:56.1
16:00.2
cleaned out then I had one problem when
somebody did not clean out a tank
16:00.2
16:04.3
properly and we brought an organic
chemical in on top of an inorganic and
16:04.3
16:08.2
it turned into gel and we had a mess and
needless to say we didn’t get that
16:08.2
16:13.7
business but you know yeah you i won’t
take responsibility for that one but
16:13.7
16:17.9
bottom line is you got to clean the
equipment so you know really understand
16:17.9
16:22.8
clean the lines out flush lines up you
know that’s a key to making sure your
16:22.8
16:28.2
trial is successful making sure you
cover every little part of what can
16:28.2
16:33.4
happen again the equipment is always a
big issue is it their equipment or are
16:33.4
16:36.8
you bringing your equipment in or is it
the competitors equipment if the
16:36.8
16:39.6
competitors equipment then you’ve got to
figure out a way to get your own
16:39.6
16:45.6
equipment in there so but then once that
starts once the trial starts again I’m
16:45.6
16:51.1
big on sampling looking at it how is it
settling what is it doing and and you
16:51.1
16:55.2
know don’t get too excited initially
that it’s really working well or too
16:55.2
17:00.9
excited it it’s not working because a
lot of times it takes longer than what
17:00.9
17:05.4
you think it’s gonna take to get your
chemical through the plant all right too
17:05.4
17:11.1
often I’ve seen the place look terrible
and you’re like oh boy this is not going
17:11.1
17:14.9
well and then all of a sudden it gets
really good or vice versa it looks
17:14.9
17:17.3
phenomenal
and then it gets in it you know it
17:17.3
17:21.9
doesn’t look too hot so give it ample
time Kevin let me ask you a question so
17:21.9
17:26.9
one of the issues that I’ve always had
is when we’re starting a new program you
17:26.9
17:31.2
know I’m always waiting to see okay has
it made it all the way back is there a
17:31.2
17:35.5
better way to figure out what that rate
is I’ve always struggled with that
17:35.5
17:40.7
ironically one of our guys just gave me
I’m working on the the the app with the
17:40.7
17:45.8
AWT app we’re trying to get some
wastewater calculations in the AWT app
17:45.8
17:50.4
and one of our one of my guys a guy
named Jim Collins he spoke at the last
17:50.4
17:56.0
conference he has some calculate
since that he uses to figure out how
17:56.0
18:00.7
long it takes from entrance to a plant
to discharge from a plant before when
18:00.7
18:05.5
you start seeing your program and I did
some gross calculations when I was in
18:05.5
18:10.5
the field where I do flow in and try to
calculate the volumes and then flow out
18:10.5
18:15.8
to get an idea it was close I’d be lost
retrace I’ve not really looked hard at
18:15.8
18:19.8
Jim’s calculations I just got him last
week and just having that time but there
18:19.8
18:24.6
are calculations and and and hopefully
that’ll eventually get onto the AWT app
18:24.6
18:29.4
but there are calculations that you can
come up with a ballpark idea on how long
18:29.4
18:34.6
it’s gonna take mine were when I’d use
mine they were okay they weren’t great
18:34.6
18:38.2
and I haven’t had a real chance to look
at Jim’s but there are basic
18:38.2
18:43.2
calculations that you can go through to
figure out potentially how long it will
18:43.2
18:47.2
be from point a the beginning of the
plant to its till at least yeah well as
18:47.2
18:51.5
you know I’m the math guy so I’m always
looking for you know that perfect
18:51.5
18:55.1
calculation and I’ve got some that will
get you in the ballpark too but then
18:55.1
18:57.2
when I hit that time and nothing’s
changed
18:57.2
19:01.2
I get disappointed and I haven’t found
something that hits it every time one
19:01.2
19:06.5
thing I’m terrible terrible is the size
of things I can’t tell if a clarifiers
19:06.5
19:12.4
25 gallons or 2.5 million gallons I mean
that’s how far off I can be so when it
19:12.4
19:16.8
comes to us it is I said yeah that’s
right baby I know things I can’t do in
19:16.8
19:22.7
sizing things is something I just
flat-out can’t do and and so what I do
19:22.7
19:26.7
might we do my old calculations I’d
always miss but let me look at Jim’s and
19:26.7
19:30.0
like I said I just haven’t had a chance
really look at his but he had shared
19:30.0
19:32.7
something with me and I haven’t had a
chance to look at it but there are
19:32.7
19:36.9
calculations or you can come up with
that can give you a ballpark idea is it
19:36.9
19:41.2
six hours is it three days is it 20
minutes whatever the case may be but
19:41.2
19:45.0
I’ve personally never had a lot of
success with that but that has more to
19:45.0
19:49.8
do with my inability to really know how
big something is I’m a whiz with math
19:49.8
19:54.6
but when it comes to looking at
visualizing how big something is I’m not
19:54.6
19:57.7
real good at that I’m not real good at
that all right well that was just a
19:57.7
20:02.1
little aside for my benefit hopefully
the nation enjoyed that dialogue so
20:02.1
20:06.6
getting back to the actual field trial
so now we finally have our
20:06.6
20:10.7
product that’s in the system it’s in
there long enough when we can actually
20:10.7
20:17.1
see the result of what we are doing what
we get credit for now what well firstly
20:17.1
20:21.8
we want to make sure that we sampled
prior to our program starting we want to
20:21.8
20:25.8
make sure we sample whatever the case
may be if we’re trying to reduce sludge
20:25.8
20:28.9
how many truckloads a day are they
taking out or how many truckloads a week
20:28.9
20:33.2
are they taking out if they’re trying to
meet a discharge limit for chrome
20:33.2
20:37.2
whatever the case may be what are their
chrome numbers how often are they not
20:37.2
20:41.7
making their chrome limits is it once a
month is it once a day whatever the case
20:41.7
20:44.8
may be
no those numbers going in then once you
20:44.8
20:48.3
know those numbers then you start
testing your numbers accordingly
20:48.3
20:53.2
we’ve gone from a truckload a day to a
truckload every three days we’ve taken
20:53.2
20:58.3
chrome from one part per million down to
three-quarters of apart familiar
20:58.3
21:03.1
whatever the case may be know what those
numbers are and have the customer agree
21:03.1
21:08.6
with those numbers okay agree with those
numbers so that they feel very
21:08.6
21:13.9
comfortable that yes we are taking out a
truckload of sludge a day that is an
21:13.9
21:18.4
agreed-upon number now we’re taking one
out every three days so get those
21:18.4
21:22.4
numbers get them agreed upon then one
again use so now you start your trial
21:22.4
21:27.7
and you’re actually able to meet or
exceed what they’re doing okay
21:27.7
21:32.1
so key is have agreed-upon numbers
before you start because if you don’t
21:32.1
21:37.1
then it’s all over the place and then
then start your trial take your samples
21:37.1
21:41.0
know where you’re gonna send the samples
to if you need to have analytical work
21:41.0
21:45.9
done make sure you have the correct lab
or a lab set up for those samples make
21:45.9
21:50.2
sure they can run what you need to run
also the other thing potentially to do
21:50.2
21:54.8
is get the samples prior sent into your
lab so your lab runs them so you’re
21:54.8
22:00.1
comparing apples and apples so make sure
you have your data in place prior to
22:00.1
22:03.9
starting your trial with what they’re
doing now Kevin what are the issues that
22:03.9
22:11.6
I found is that how they test the actual
an illiterate and somebody might test it
22:11.6
22:15.7
as a certain species where the other lab
might not test it as the same species
22:15.7
22:20.3
can you speak to that a little bit on
that that’s not really been my lot
22:20.3
22:25.4
scene let’s add that again I think that
you and I but I can get it
22:25.4
22:31.1
so therefore you’d want to use the same
lab potentially the same lab or use your
22:31.1
22:35.9
lab and do it the same way so either
that I’ve seen I’ve not seen that a lot
22:35.9
22:41.7
but again we’re back to you know keeping
things as consistent as possible you
22:41.7
22:46.0
know we’re using the same lab with with
what’s going on now we’re gonna use the
22:46.0
22:50.3
same lab with ours or whatever the case
may be and worst case scenario if you’re
22:50.3
22:53.5
if you’re using two or more labs you
have to make sure that they’re at least
22:53.5
22:58.4
reporting the same way exactly but again
make sure you have those numbers going
22:58.4
23:03.1
in because if you don’t have those
numbers going in it’s an uphill battle
23:03.1
23:07.6
to convince someone that you’ve done
better thinking back about issues that I
23:07.6
23:11.9
have they probably all would have been
solved if I took your advice that you
23:11.9
23:16.3
just gave well I listened I wished I
could say I did it every time trace but
23:16.3
23:19.3
you know I mean you know this comes you
know things you learn you know you learn
23:19.3
23:22.9
them that you learn in the industry know
what your parameters are going in and
23:22.9
23:27.4
agreed-upon parameters and I’ve had
places where I’ve had agreed-upon
23:27.4
23:31.3
parameters I’ve met or exceeded the
parameters and those weren’t the right
23:31.3
23:35.0
parameters even though I had them
agreed-upon so these things happen but
23:35.0
23:38.5
it’s oh you always feel better if you
know what you’re trying to meet and so
23:38.5
23:42.4
that’s that’s a key for a successful
trial Kevin what are some other things
23:42.4
23:47.2
that we need to consider when we’re
doing field trials well the one thing
23:47.2
23:52.2
you did I know that has come up is how
long how long do you run a trial well
23:52.2
23:57.6
you run a trial based on what the
customers needs are I’ve had trials that
23:57.6
24:01.3
the customer has shut it down before it
even got started because we did really
24:01.3
24:05.5
high colonic ladies in Mexico wasn’t in
the states but you really want to make
24:05.5
24:09.8
sure you run a trial long enough to
verify what you’re doing if it’s a plant
24:09.8
24:14.1
that has a lot of changes you want to
make sure your trial is run through all
24:14.1
24:19.0
those changes not just for a day maybe
for a month for a week so saying how
24:19.0
24:23.8
long really is based more on what the
customer is trying to achieve and they
24:23.8
24:28.3
give up give a hard cold answer for that
is very difficult so work with the
24:28.3
24:32.3
customer to get how long a trial you
know if it’s a batch maybe run one or
24:32.3
24:36.7
two batches if it’s continued
us make sure you hit every one of the
24:36.7
24:42.8
potential changes they can have in their
plant during that trial period and so
24:42.8
24:46.1
now you’ve done that and you’ve had you
know you generated some successful
24:46.1
24:50.6
numbers and successful results you know
you need to talk with the customer and
24:50.6
24:55.8
show them in a very professional manner
what were you able to do you know during
24:55.8
25:01.3
the month of May a month of May you
exceeded your phosphate limit seven
25:01.3
25:07.5
times we started June first and from
June 1st to June 30th we did not exceed
25:07.5
25:12.3
phosphate ever we were always below it
and therefore I recommend we continue
25:12.3
25:17.5
with our program so whatever the case
may be you always want to show here’s
25:17.5
25:22.0
what we agreed on here’s how we better
that and then ask to continue your
25:22.0
25:27.2
program that’s a that that’s a key you
also want to make sure that you know
25:27.2
25:32.6
what what the chemistry that’s currently
in there how much do they have how much
25:32.6
25:37.6
they need to to go through before that’s
up to where your program can be put in
25:37.6
25:41.6
place permanently I should have maybe
mentioned that earlier but you know a
25:41.6
25:45.7
lot of times make sure there isn’t a
whole bulk load of chemical waiting and
25:45.7
25:49.6
it’s a year’s worth of bulk load of
chemical before they can switch to your
25:49.6
25:54.1
program understand what what the current
vendor or what the pro current program
25:54.1
25:59.0
has but then once you’ve had a
successful trial period present that the
25:59.0
26:03.2
customer well Kevin let me let me back
you up for a second what is your advice
26:03.2
26:09.0
if you found just so much of a better
solution than what their current vendor
26:09.0
26:14.5
is providing but yet their current
vendor has stockpiled them with a huge
26:14.5
26:20.1
amount of inventory is is that
opportunity over or in your experience D
26:20.1
26:24.5
what would you say to that customer well
what I would say that customers really
26:24.5
26:30.4
depends on how much how much of a what’s
or what I’m looking for of a problem
26:30.4
26:34.8
they’re having what kind of fees are
they paying right now based on the the
26:34.8
26:38.6
program they have in place if they’re
paying a thousand dollars a day in fines
26:38.6
26:42.8
and you can take that thousand dollars a
day away that pays for a heck of a lot
26:42.8
26:47.2
of chemical pretty darn quickly so it
really depends on how much you are able
26:47.2
26:50.7
to save that
and say look you know we can save you a
26:50.7
26:54.8
thousand dollars a day you can bleed
that chemical in maybe a gallon or two a
26:54.8
26:59.2
day just to get rid of it but think of
the amount of money you’re gonna save so
26:59.2
27:03.4
it really boils down there tres to do
the math to sit down and say if you
27:03.4
27:07.4
switch to my program here’s how much
money you can say even though you have
27:07.4
27:12.1
this amount of chemical in place so that
that’s that’s kind of it gets a little
27:12.1
27:17.0
dicey but if you’ve if you’ve got a
program it does so much better than by
27:17.0
27:21.6
gosh you can really sell that another
key and a lot of things come to me after
27:21.6
27:25.6
I think about it a lot of times if you
have you know you’re going after a
27:25.6
27:29.4
competitor you’re going to say to the
customer hey please don’t order any more
27:29.4
27:35.0
chemical into our trial is over or until
we’ve proved that because a lot of times
27:35.0
27:39.1
and some of the larger guys were
notorious for this the minute they heard
27:39.1
27:42.7
something was going on they would fill
up the ball tanks or fill up the
27:42.7
27:46.5
warehouse with their product and then it
made it difficult for the customer to
27:46.5
27:51.3
switch so you know be aware of that
going in but if you can save them if
27:51.3
27:55.8
they’re not mean discharge limits on a
metal or something then you know you
27:55.8
28:01.8
typically can force their hand to say
hey if we continue with this program or
28:01.8
28:04.0
user right now we’re losing a lot of
money
28:04.0
28:08.6
so Kevin let me ask you this so you’re
now doing the field trial you’ve talked
28:08.6
28:13.0
with a customer they like you but of
course the the incumbent vendor they
28:13.0
28:18.9
want to stay and while you’re doing your
field trial and over however many days
28:18.9
28:23.9
they get wind of what you’re doing and
now they try to duplicate your program
28:23.9
28:27.4
how do you handle that
well that just really comes to customer
28:27.4
28:31.0
relations you know and I’ve seen people
I’ve seen people do that I had that
28:31.0
28:35.2
happen to me and the con up in
Pennsylvania where I came in and this
28:35.2
28:38.4
was more on a D foamer
where I basically cut the D farmer from
28:38.4
28:44.2
600 parts per million to 12 and lo and
behold the incumbent came in and
28:44.2
28:48.8
switched their chemical chemistry to
mine it made me mad I mean and you just
28:48.8
28:52.5
wish it doesn’t happen but it does
happen I wish there was a you know a
28:52.5
28:56.7
magic wand that I could say here’s how
it happens but it just really boils down
28:56.7
29:01.9
to that the pre-selling is really what
it boils down to saying hey if I’m able
29:01.9
29:07.1
to switch and improve this operation
improve this situation will you go with
29:07.1
29:11.7
my chemistry and you know go with my
program you know for the most part I
29:11.7
29:17.2
think people are art are honest but you
are gonna get those ones that are gonna
29:17.2
29:21.8
say sure will change and then the minute
you’ve solved the problem they go with
29:21.8
29:26.6
their vendor I mean I wish I could say
it doesn’t happen but it does and you
29:26.6
29:30.9
know all you can do is just is try to
make sure upfront at least this is mine
29:30.9
29:33.8
I’m sure there are people who are much
better sales people I am have better
29:33.8
29:38.6
ways of doing it but making sure upfront
you come to that agreement as opposed to
29:38.6
29:42.8
when it’s over it’s better to have it up
front than what it’s over yeah
29:42.8
29:47.2
always always talk about your
expectations before you get started in
29:47.2
29:51.4
the process I love that advice exactly
and Kevin I got to tell you I had a
29:51.4
29:56.3
customer that it wasn’t wastewater it
was just regular water treatment and I
29:56.3
30:02.3
found several issues and it was when I
was relatively new and I of course
30:02.3
30:06.9
wanted to boast all the issues that I
found and they simply just gave that to
30:06.9
30:11.2
their current supplier and I asked the
gentleman I said well you know I don’t
30:11.2
30:14.7
think that’s very fair but the question
I have for you is what are you going to
30:14.7
30:18.8
do when the next problem comes up and
the gentleman looked me right in the eye
30:18.8
30:24.0
and said I guess I’ll get you to come
back and give us another free survey
30:24.0
30:28.8
yeah so I changed how I did things from
that point and I guess that’s my point
30:28.8
30:35.2
you have to learn from the results that
you get I totally agree that most people
30:35.2
30:40.3
out there are honest but we have to
protect ourselves for the very least
30:40.3
30:45.2
that we don’t have a lot of time to give
away because there are customers that
30:45.2
30:48.7
want us to help them and they’ll pay us
to do that so we just have to make sure
30:48.7
30:55.2
that we are doing things like setting
expectations and setting soft closes and
30:55.2
31:00.0
closing deals before we actually burn up
more of our time that we’ll never get
31:00.0
31:05.0
back sure I mean you know the thing and
one of the earlier discussions that I
31:05.0
31:08.9
saw some questions was you know what’s
the difference between wastewater and
31:08.9
31:11.8
boiler cooling water
well the biggest difference in my
31:11.8
31:15.3
opinion is in wastewater we can show
relative
31:15.3
31:19.8
quickly compared to boil the cooling
water on what our program has is able to
31:19.8
31:25.5
do but it doesn’t change the way we sell
as water treatment professionals we have
31:25.5
31:28.8
to make sure that we come to an
agreement prior you know if we’re
31:28.8
31:31.9
selling a cooling system
we’re gonna keep biological control
31:31.9
31:36.0
under control whatever these these
parameters are it’s the same for
31:36.0
31:40.0
wastewater as it is for boiling water or
processed water don’t think of it any
31:40.0
31:44.6
differently the only thing that’s
different is in wastewater we typically
31:44.6
31:50.2
can show our results more quickly
because we that it’s more of a visual
31:50.2
31:54.9
art for like a way to put it you can see
your app you can see your results
31:54.9
31:59.2
relatively quickly you know in a cooling
system if your start seeing pressures
31:59.2
32:03.5
going up across the heat exchanger you
know I have a problem are you seeing it
32:03.5
32:06.8
you know in a boiler starting to see
fuel consumption go up you know you have
32:06.8
32:11.7
a problem but that takes a little longer
in wastewater it’s pretty quick so
32:11.7
32:16.0
that’s really the only difference you
still need the same basic agreements
32:16.0
32:21.1
going in on a wastewater treatment plant
that you need on a on a boiler cooling
32:21.1
32:26.2
water application that’s a great way to
look at that yeah there’s really there’s
32:26.2
32:29.8
really no difference I mean that’s to me
that’s it’s selling 101 getting
32:29.8
32:33.6
agreements from the customer and then
and then meeting or exceeding those
32:33.6
32:37.8
agreements yeah
well Kevin let’s draw from you’re over
32:37.8
32:42.9
40 years of wastewater experience so
you’ve taken us through the process
32:42.9
32:49.2
where we now have a solution we’re happy
with it the customers happy with it and
32:49.2
32:55.7
then for some reason something happens
and it stops working what are some of
32:55.7
33:00.5
the most common things that you’ve
experienced that we can learn from so
33:00.5
33:06.8
maybe we can stop from happening on our
programs well the most common laughing
33:06.8
33:11.9
the most common never happens but it’s
the most common that happens and that
33:11.9
33:16.8
most common thing is somebody changes
something in the plant but they didn’t
33:16.8
33:22.3
change no nobody ever does that nobody
ever does that mean so so that’s the
33:22.3
33:25.2
most common
nobody’s ever does it nobody ever
33:25.2
33:29.2
changes anything the plantiffs hitter a
big grin on my face laughing
33:29.2
33:33.3
but that tends to be the most common and
again my background is very heavily in
33:33.3
33:38.2
oil and removing oils and things along
this line and in they all change the
33:38.2
33:41.6
surfactant they won’t even think about
it and that’s your fact that will then
33:41.6
33:46.5
screw up the ability for any polymer to
break and emulsion remove the oil but
33:46.5
33:49.9
that’s I mean it doesn’t happen all a
try but that’s really is the most common
33:49.9
33:54.6
the other the other more common is where
you know maybe they’re sampling problems
33:54.6
34:00.1
maybe you you know discharge limits
change and you’re unaware of that you
34:00.1
34:02.9
know you do get you know I know there
was some discussion about operator
34:02.9
34:07.9
sabotage but you know that I’ve seen
that happen but so rarely especially
34:07.9
34:11.0
once you get in and you work with those
guys but they’re really the biggest
34:11.0
34:15.6
problem I’ve seen or biggest change is a
change in the system that you’re not
34:15.6
34:21.3
notified about nobody tells you about it
we just put on a new a new a new line we
34:21.3
34:26.7
just changed from product data product Z
and you’re not told in advance that’s
34:26.7
34:31.9
typically the biggest problem that I’ve
seen is something changing the plant but
34:31.9
34:37.7
it takes it takes so long to figure out
that something has changed I think we’re
34:37.7
34:43.9
getting better as a as an industry on
dawn when things do change that we are
34:43.9
34:49.1
notified but it’s still not great so
that would be that’s my biggest
34:49.1
34:55.7
observation on what causes programs to
fail or not become as effective Kevin
34:55.7
35:00.6
when you were on the show for industrial
water week you mentioned that a lot of
35:00.6
35:07.8
times during ship changes somebody might
early make up a tank or they might late
35:07.8
35:13.8
make up a tank and now we don’t have
that constant dilution of the mixture
35:13.8
35:18.8
going into the plant what are some
things that we can do to help with that
35:18.8
35:23.3
well I think it does come back to
operator training making sure that
35:23.3
35:27.3
you’re they’re trained properly and tell
them a lie I mean a lot of times we just
35:27.3
35:32.0
say put it in when it gets to this level
okay well what happens if you put it in
35:32.0
35:36.1
too soon what happens if you put it in
too late here’s why here’s why it has to
35:36.1
35:41.3
go in at this specific time and explain
that here’s why and in the other comment
35:41.3
35:45.5
a lot of times you know they just don’t
understand and if you take time to
35:45.5
35:50.0
explain and train them and say here’s
why and you know look if it does go down
35:50.0
35:54.1
too low or you have to add it earlier
let me know you’ve done it so we
35:54.1
35:58.7
understand what’s going on I get it you
know you have to get to a recital for
35:58.7
36:02.7
your daughter so you got to make sure
you leave at exactly five o’clock I get
36:02.7
36:07.3
it and so you know you can’t you can’t
be putting it in right at five o’clock I
36:07.3
36:11.6
need to be out the door so if you
explain to them why this is important I
36:11.6
36:15.9
think that’s really kind of a key to
making sure that they understand why
36:15.9
36:19.3
they’re doing what they’re doing
too often we just tell them do this do
36:19.3
36:23.9
this do this I think that people Lisa
nowadays they want to know why why am I
36:23.9
36:28.7
doing this what are the ramifications if
I do it differently then if I if I do it
36:28.7
36:32.9
the way you say it you know and and I
think that’s really a key is is operator
36:32.9
36:37.8
training letting them know exactly why
you’re doing what you’re doing so that
36:37.8
36:41.9
that’s how I would answer that I’ve had
real good success with explaining to
36:41.9
36:45.5
folks you know in the plants me know
what I was doing the service which has
36:45.5
36:48.9
been a while but that’s what I used to
always do I’d go in and sit down and
36:48.9
36:52.5
talk with them maybe not maybe not
making a formal training but just sit
36:52.5
36:55.9
down and talk to him and say I know
sometimes you you know you’re late on on
36:55.9
36:59.5
turning this up or turning this stuff
here’s why it’s important to do it and
36:59.5
37:02.9
if you can’t get to it
I understand but let me know you know so
37:02.9
37:06.9
we know what why there was a problem at
this particular point in time
37:06.9
37:13.1
have you ever created a mix chart based
on the graduations of the mix tank and
37:13.1
37:17.3
if they have so many gallons left then
this is what you need to add or just
37:17.3
37:24.2
that over complicate the situation I you
know I’ve never done more Trace when
37:24.2
37:29.4
we’ve done batch treatments where we’ve
had a batch that we needed to treat and
37:29.4
37:34.1
it added the chemical according they’re
not so much in making unmake down
37:34.1
37:38.6
systems I mean a lot of times now the
customers have the automated make down
37:38.6
37:43.8
systems it’s not as Neanderthal as it
was when I was in the field I have done
37:43.8
37:47.6
that but more along the lines of you
know you’re treating a batch of a
37:47.6
37:51.2
thousand gallons here’s how much you put
in if the batch is only 800 here’s how
37:51.2
37:55.4
much put in I’ve done more along that
line where we’ve said here’s how much
37:55.4
38:00.4
chemistry you need to put in
as far as as far as dilution I get a
38:00.4
38:04.4
little worried I’m doing that because
you know if you think about emulsion
38:04.4
38:09.1
polymers you really need to be in a
certain range you start getting over or
38:09.1
38:14.4
under that range especially over I did a
cartoon one time where I where I a guy
38:14.4
38:18.9
was making a polymer make down in a
batch tank and instead of making a one
38:18.9
38:22.8
percent solution he made a ten percent
and it was like this monster coming out
38:22.8
38:28.7
of the tank because it turns into a gel
so I was all it’s just a decimal aw yeah
38:28.7
38:31.8
yeah try to make it a ten percent of an
emulsion die
38:31.8
38:37.5
you’ve been warned a dozen law but III
can see how you could do that I’ve never
38:37.5
38:42.1
really had an opportunity to do that my
need has been more for treatment of a
38:42.1
38:46.6
batch tank a lot of times you know when
you’re talking oils they’ll do batch
38:46.6
38:50.0
tanks and they won’t always be a
whatever the number is thousand gallons
38:50.0
38:54.3
sometimes they may be light some things
a me it may be heavy so I would do you
38:54.3
38:58.5
know calculations based on that you know
here’s at a gallon to a thousand and
38:58.5
39:01.8
three quarters of a gallon to 750
whatever the case may be
39:01.8
39:08.2
any advice you have for that one plant
that just can’t keep an operator and
39:08.2
39:12.3
you’re constantly training people are
there things that obviously you can’t
39:12.3
39:16.4
help their HR issues that’s probably the
real problem here but is there anything
39:16.4
39:20.9
that you can do to help since you know
you’re gonna have to Train somebody else
39:20.9
39:24.5
because you’ve trained ten other people
to make that process a little bit more
39:24.5
39:28.9
efficient and more effective for you the
one thing I would think and this just
39:28.9
39:33.5
companies just thinking off top my head
is potentially do it like you know we do
39:33.5
39:37.4
webinars periodically your friend tag
and record a webinar and have it
39:37.4
39:41.4
recorded that if they do get new people
at least the first step that they could
39:41.4
39:46.6
see would be the webinar the you’ve done
on how to you know what what are some of
39:46.6
39:50.4
the key points for the operator and so
they’re the original training could be
39:50.4
39:55.1
done through a webinar series and then
get in and then follow up with on-site
39:55.1
39:59.0
so that’s something that I would I would
think that could work very nicely would
39:59.0
40:03.9
be to do a basic little webinar training
of the plant walk the operator through
40:03.9
40:07.5
here’s the importance of coagulation
near the importance of flocculation
40:07.5
40:11.6
specifically around their facility that
might be and then
40:11.6
40:15.5
the customer could have that readily
available on YouTube that they could set
40:15.5
40:19.2
the guy down the person down on their
first day or second day whatever the
40:19.2
40:23.5
case may be and walk them through that
but then come in and follow up and make
40:23.5
40:27.0
sure you answer any questions they have
but I think that would be a way of doing
40:27.0
40:30.9
it I mean we used to you know have the
old PowerPoint ones that we leave with
40:30.9
40:36.2
the operator but I think nowadays you
know recorded one would be fantastic and
40:36.2
40:40.8
I hear those new digital cameras
actually take video sorry I couldn’t
40:40.8
40:50.4
resist I think that’s fine I I think I
really enjoy you know you know being me
40:50.4
40:54.0
I don’t say being I guess being older
and you know making comments like that
40:54.0
40:58.0
just laughing it I’m sure that I laugh
that some of the guys had taught me
40:58.0
41:02.4
years ago I mean I mean you know I mean
it you know it’s all in what you
41:02.4
41:06.7
remember what you do and you know but I
think I do think it’s funny when I made
41:06.7
41:11.0
made the comment about the digital
camera but I remember my very first
41:11.0
41:15.6
digital cameras when I was with Calgon
and it was a 1.8 megapixel digital
41:15.6
41:21.8
camera I do a lot of photography the
camera that I have right now if the car
41:21.8
41:27.9
that was in my original camera wouldn’t
even put one picture on that car I mean
41:27.9
41:32.0
that’s just the mind-boggling to me I
could not get one picture on the card
41:32.0
41:35.6
that came with my first digital camera
so that and that was back when I was
41:35.6
41:39.8
with my training manager Calgon so it’s
amazing how far it’s come
41:39.8
41:45.4
Kevin let me ask what has been the
funniest thing in wastewater that you
41:45.4
41:50.8
have ever seen well the funniest thing
of wastewater is the one I said there
41:50.8
41:55.4
there’s been one account in my entire
career that is different than any
41:55.4
42:01.3
account I was ever in and it was it was
it was at a railroad in North Bend
42:01.3
42:07.7
Roanoke Virginia I get called there and
they had put a brand new plant in and I
42:07.7
42:12.5
think I was with tree lighter Dearborne
I can’t remem I’ve been Dearborn so I
42:12.5
42:17.2
get down get down to the plant I’m a I’m
a model Rail Runner so model railroad
42:17.2
42:21.5
enthusiast I get down and I get there
and walk into the plant and there are
42:21.5
42:28.0
eight or ten open-pit Sam
altars right and five on each side I’m
42:28.0
42:32.2
pretty sure was five five on each side
and a conveyor belt that goes from one
42:32.2
42:36.0
down the middle
from one to the up to the other end a
42:36.0
42:40.9
conveyor belt right and they were having
problems with blinding of these sand
42:40.9
42:45.0
sores right they wanted to come up with
a polymer for treating these sand
42:45.0
42:49.5
filters right so I get on and I’m
looking at this that mean there’s the
42:49.5
42:54.3
pics there’s the Pittsburgh coming out
at me that I cannot say the word down so
42:54.3
42:58.0
anyways I go down to this account I go
in there and I’m looking and there
42:58.0
43:02.4
twitting there they’re putting water
into each money top said sand films the
43:02.4
43:05.9
water percolates down through the oil
gets stuck on the top in the water
43:05.9
43:09.7
percolates down through and goes out to
the waste treatment or the sewer
43:09.7
43:14.5
wherever case may be and they wanted to
make the polymers to be more effective
43:14.5
43:19.0
in taking oil on I go how did you get
the oil out of these things
43:19.0
43:25.1
once they you know they they fill up
they actually had their operators go
43:25.1
43:32.2
down with shovels this is how it would
design trace with shovels shovel the oil
43:32.2
43:37.0
off the top of the sand filters and
stick it up on the belt that was running
43:37.0
43:42.0
to remove the oil all right if you
started on one nd there was an incline
43:42.0
43:45.8
of I’m sitting there drawing with my
finger there was an incline of this
43:45.8
43:50.4
conveyor belt on the center by the time
he got that and not five the two at the
43:50.4
43:55.4
end I made a joke I said you’d have to
bring the Los Angeles Lakers in to put
43:55.4
43:59.0
the sludge on the belt because the belt
was like three feet over top of these
43:59.0
44:10.0
guys heads who designed this I mean it
was the most bizarre thing I have ever
44:10.0
44:14.1
seen in my life to this day it’s still
the one that stuck out most bizarre
44:14.1
44:18.8
thing I’ve ever seen in my life and and
the these guys were getting just covered
44:18.8
44:23.5
with oil because she could well imagine
taking a like a coal shovel putting on
44:23.5
44:28.6
oily was pretty liquidy and trying to
put it up over your head three feet and
44:28.6
44:34.7
stick it on to a belt turns out that the
guy that put the plant in knew he was
44:34.7
44:38.4
getting fired the engineer and so he
designed it that way
44:38.4
44:41.9
just
to make it a mess Wow this day it to
44:41.9
44:47.4
this day it is still it is still the
funniest thing most bizarre thing I’ve
44:47.4
44:52.8
ever seen a wastewater treatment plant
and it’s so much more fun when I can
44:52.8
44:55.6
actually draw the picture I shown
somebody how to do it but that’s
44:55.6
44:59.7
literally how they did it they and they
I don’t think the plant lasted about but
44:59.7
45:03.4
three months they they went back to the
old plant and put a new one in we
45:03.4
45:05.9
couldn’t help them do any what are you
gonna do you couldn’t help do anything
45:05.9
45:10.6
but yeah that higher taller people well
that was my point was get the Lakers the
45:10.6
45:17.0
do the number that’s the fifth fifth
sand filters but that’s what they did
45:17.0
45:20.3
they pump the water in the water would
percolate down through the oil would
45:20.3
45:24.6
step on the top and the goal was to go
in and then scrape it off and put it up
45:24.6
45:29.7
onto this conveyor belt but the end one
the fifth one or the very last one ever
45:29.7
45:34.5
you know two on each side and they came
down the center was up two feet over the
45:34.5
45:37.2
top I’m six foot tall it was two feet
over my head
45:37.2
45:42.0
Wow gonna be kidding me yeah still that
I won’t say the name of the company but
45:42.0
45:46.2
it was in it was in Roanoke Virginia and
it was a railroad in Roanoke Virginia
45:46.2
45:51.3
yeah still to this day that is the one
waste treatment plant that I’ve been in
45:51.3
45:56.5
that I’ve never seen anything remotely
close to the same so when they said
45:56.5
46:00.2
you’ll you’ll never see anything like
this again in your career and they they
46:00.2
46:05.6
are to this day 40 years was 835 years
later they still are the only waste
46:05.6
46:09.2
treatment plant that I’ve ever been in
but I’ve never seen anything remotely
46:09.2
46:14.8
close to that that time they meant it
yeah yeah well can’t you not only came
46:14.8
46:20.4
on this week you were on the week before
so somebody’s just tuning in they
46:20.4
46:24.8
haven’t heard this episode they didn’t
hear last week’s episode what’s the one
46:24.8
46:29.6
thing you want to leave the Scaling UP!
nation with well from a wastewater
46:29.6
46:34.4
standpoint for anybody and we’re really
focusing this on new people is really
46:34.4
46:37.9
know what you have a plan when you go
through the waste treatment plan I
46:37.9
46:43.0
understand what you’re trying to remove
what you’re trying to improve the
46:43.0
46:48.7
operation don’t just jar test the jar
test now for young folks a lot of times
46:48.7
46:52.7
it’s good just to go in and jar tests
understand how to do it
46:52.7
46:56.5
okay but as you become more seasoned
after you run two or three jar tests
46:56.5
47:01.8
make sure you have a plan how am I going
to improve what they’re doing what are
47:01.8
47:06.9
their needs and that’s really the key I
mean too often I’ve seen people run jar
47:06.9
47:10.8
tests just to run jar tests and that’s
the one thing I’d like to leave anybody
47:10.8
47:14.8
that’s new and waste water it’s great to
go out a lot a few jar tests to get them
47:14.8
47:18.6
under your belt but once you feel
comfortable make sure you’re doing it
47:18.6
47:22.4
with a plan and with a purpose so that’s
the one thing I would like to leave you
47:22.4
47:27.3
know the younger people in the
wastewater industry that is some good
47:27.3
47:32.8
advice Kevin this has been a lot of fun
I’m not quite done with you yet we did
47:32.8
47:36.8
not do lightning round questions last
week so that means we are going to do
47:36.8
47:42.0
them right now are you ready for the
challenge I am ready all right so my
47:42.0
47:47.7
first question if you could go back in
time and visit yourself on your first
47:47.7
47:51.9
day as a wastewater treatment
professional what advice would you give
47:51.9
47:56.9
yourself well what the advice I would
give myself and I’m I’m really proud of
47:56.9
48:02.5
this right now is understand all aspects
of our market when I started I started
48:02.5
48:06.4
in wastewater but then when I went to
Cal not I got to understand boiler
48:06.4
48:11.9
cooling water and process water I think
that if I knew then what I know now I
48:11.9
48:16.7
would have started understanding
function of scale function of corrosion
48:16.7
48:21.7
function of biological control back when
I started in wastewater I think as
48:21.7
48:26.9
wastewater professionals and as we see
water reuse water recycle becoming more
48:26.9
48:31.3
and more and more prevalent and more
needed I think that that is the piece of
48:31.3
48:36.3
advice I would have given myself 40
years ago get to understand everything
48:36.3
48:40.9
and so that would be the advice I would
give new people to now understand boil
48:40.9
48:45.7
corn water processed water and waste
water look at it all as water treatment
48:45.7
48:49.7
great advice
what are the last three books that
48:49.7
48:54.1
you’ve read well I’m actually reading a
book right now on the Indianapolis it’s
48:54.1
48:59.0
not the history of the Indianapolis and
then again I’m an artist but my last
48:59.0
49:03.5
three books have always been I read a
lot or look at a lot of books about art
49:03.5
49:08.0
looking at different artists that
they’ve done things I don’t remember I
49:08.0
49:12.3
think I’m a big van Gogh fans I think
probably one of the last books would
49:12.3
49:17.1
have been on Van Gogh I’m a big Vermeer
fan I think the other book would have
49:17.1
49:21.9
been Vermeer so I do I do
I rebelled so look at the pictures in a
49:21.9
49:26.3
lot of art books so those would be my
three my three answers Kevin what are
49:26.3
49:30.0
some of your favorite wastewater
treatment resource books
49:30.0
49:37.2
well back to really just the Internet I
really don’t have any real AWT resource
49:37.2
49:43.8
books we have a manual online through
the AWT that’s pretty good we’re
49:43.8
49:47.4
hopefully we can maybe redo that but
that was a tough one tres because I
49:47.4
49:51.7
really don’t have I think my resources
tend to be internet and then friends
49:51.7
49:55.4
within the industry that I call and ask
questions too so that’s the way I would
49:55.4
49:59.5
answer that I don’t really have any
really good wastewater books that I
49:59.5
50:04.0
would recommend okay fair enough so
here’s the one we’re gonna have some fun
50:04.0
50:10.1
with because I know some stuff about you
so if someone plays you in a movie and
50:10.1
50:12.7
we know it’s just a matter of time
before that happens
50:12.7
50:20.0
who would it be that’s plays Kevin cope
in that movie okay I know everybody
50:20.0
50:24.8
knows me is waiting for this answer so
so I the Mike Meyer it might my answer
50:24.8
50:29.8
would be I would say Michael Keaton
because he’s a Pittsburgh okay but but
50:29.8
50:35.1
but this is really a big big caveat here
Sharon Stone has to be in the movie
50:35.1
50:39.8
because a lot of my friends know this
that I was actually on a date in college
50:39.8
50:45.8
with Sharon Stone so yes the Shan Stone
in Basic Instinct I went to college with
50:45.8
50:50.4
Sharon now that said I was on a double
date with Sharon she was dating an
50:50.4
50:54.2
attorney brother of mine but we went on
a date together she rode in the back
50:54.2
50:59.5
seat of my Pinto station wagon and and
she would not remember me I see was a
50:59.5
51:04.1
she was a scuse me I think a sophomore
when I was a junior I don’t I know she
51:04.1
51:07.9
didn’t finish school at the Edinboro
State College in Edinburgh Pennsylvania
51:07.9
51:12.2
but somehow Sharon Stone would have to
be in that movie to make it truly a
51:12.2
51:16.9
Kevin Koch movie so my answer to you
Michael Keaton but Sharon Stone would
51:16.9
51:19.8
have to be in the movie somewhere or
sometimes so
51:19.8
51:25.5
now you guys didn’t have boiled rabbit
on this date did you boiled rabbit well
51:25.5
51:30.7
I didn’t remember I didn’t remember that
I did it’s been so long since I’ve seen
51:30.7
51:35.3
that movie but yeah just uh it’s just
funny because I there was a picture
51:35.3
51:40.0
taken of me and I was not dating my wife
time my wife had not a gun to college at
51:40.0
51:44.3
that point but it was me and a young
lady named Carol and then Sharon and
51:44.3
51:47.8
Pete and there was a picture of the four
of us standing it we went through a
51:47.8
51:52.4
house in a fraternity we went to another
fraternity down in Cambridge Springs and
51:52.4
51:55.9
there was a stairway when you walked in
and everybody that came in they took
51:55.9
52:00.1
pictures of us and there’s a picture
somewhere out there me and Carol and
52:00.1
52:05.0
Sharon and Pete but I’ll be darned if I
can find it but yeah but yes so I was I
52:05.0
52:09.1
was on a double date with with Sharon
Stone that’s my my Hollywood claim to
52:09.1
52:11.9
fame
I’ll get my team to comb the internet
52:11.9
52:17.6
and we’ll see if we can put that up on
the show notes page trust me there’s
52:17.6
52:20.7
been a lot of people coming here that
tried to fly that picture
52:20.7
52:24.2
all right and thanks for not knowing
about the boiled rabbit see now I just
52:24.2
52:29.3
seemed mean towards it sorry about that
sorry but sorry my final question for
52:29.3
52:34.1
you so you now have the ability to talk
to anybody throughout history who would
52:34.1
52:38.2
it be with and why well you know I
listen to Jim this was my answer before
52:38.2
52:43.2
I listened to Jim Lucca the truth saying
would be my mom and my dad they’ve been
52:43.2
52:47.6
going for about thirty years and it
would just be great for them to hear
52:47.6
52:51.8
what their kids have done there their
grandchildren and you know just that
52:51.8
52:56.1
would be my that would be my answer I
just I just would love to sit down with
52:56.1
53:00.9
them one time and say here’s what their
grandchildren have done and I just think
53:00.9
53:04.7
it’d be great and that would be that
believe up to be maybe my answer it’s a
53:04.7
53:08.0
good answer and I can’t have a
conversation with my parents either so
53:08.0
53:12.9
Scaling UP! nation if you have that
opportunity to talk with the people that
53:12.9
53:16.4
made you take advantage of that
opportunity
53:16.4
53:20.3
absolutely absolutely so all right I
don’t know where that came from that was
53:20.3
53:23.8
just a little public service
announcement Kevin this has been so much
53:23.8
53:31.7
fun you are a master of taking the
complex and explaining it simply so
53:31.7
53:36.5
everybody can get engaged
and everybody can visualize what you are
53:36.5
53:41.6
describing as I mentioned in the last
episode I’m definitely ripping off a lot
53:41.6
53:45.9
of the techniques that you use to
describe things because it’s so simple
53:45.9
53:50.9
and everybody can visualize it I want to
thank you for coming on Scaling UP! and I
53:50.9
53:55.3
want to thank you for educating the
Scaling UP! nation it’s been my pleasure
53:55.3
53:59.4
and as you can tell I really enjoy the
water treatment industry and any hope I
53:59.4
54:02.7
can give anybody that’s that’s what I
love doing so thank you again thanks for
54:02.7
54:09.2
having me nation I know that that did
not disappoint in any way shape or form
54:09.2
54:14.8
and I know a lot of you out there have
written in and you want to get into
54:14.8
54:19.7
wastewater you’re maybe into cooling
towers and boilers and closed loops or
54:19.7
54:24.1
maybe you’re treating some other type of
water and there’s also a wastewater
54:24.1
54:30.6
opportunity there for you well now I
hope you have a common frame of
54:30.6
54:37.8
reference on what wastewater is and what
the professionals job is who’s running
54:37.8
54:43.3
that program when it’s all said and done
in that wastewater plant this is
54:43.3
54:48.1
probably one of those interviews that
you are going to listen to again and
54:48.1
54:56.3
folks if you have not signed up for an
AWT technical training you need to do
54:56.3
55:02.4
this because we are now offering
wastewater every year and Kevin is one
55:02.4
55:07.9
of the speaker so in addition to Kevin
painting those awesome pictures in your
55:07.9
55:11.3
mind you know he’s actually a pane or
two I wonder if there’s some sort of
55:11.3
55:17.0
metaphor there anyway I digress so he
can put you there
55:17.0
55:21.5
at the equipment and then he’s also got
pictures in his slide deck so if you’ve
55:21.5
55:25.8
never seen a particular piece of
equipment before it’s right there
55:25.8
55:32.8
looking at you of course with his
fantastic narration so I hope that you
55:32.8
55:39.3
put on your calendar to attend the AWT
technical training seminars so go to AWT
55:39.3
55:44.4
or you can find out when those are going
to be of course I will be there
55:44.4
55:49.4
hopefully at each and
every AWT seminar because I’m enjoy
55:49.4
55:55.4
doing that and bringing my information
to you guys as well folks I hope that
55:55.4
56:03.9
you use today to make whatever you’re
doing one percent better if you can just
56:03.9
56:10.3
get one percent better each and every
day imagine where you’re going to be at
56:10.3
56:17.0
the end of a week at the end of a month
at the end of a year but you have to pay
56:17.0
56:23.4
attention to that what are you going to
do today that was better than you did
56:23.4
56:30.3
yesterday and again when you can hold
yourself accountable to somebody else
56:30.3
56:36.1
you’re gonna make sure that you get it
done how many of us decided that we were
56:36.1
56:42.3
going to work out each and every morning
in the new year and probably January 2nd
56:42.3
56:48.1
we hit that snooze and we did not keep
that commitment to ourselves commitments
56:48.1
56:53.4
we make to ourselves are the hardest
commitments to keep so tell somebody
56:53.4
56:57.9
else about them and make sure you’re
holding each other accountable folks
56:57.9
57:07.1
thanks so much for listening to Scaling UP!H2O and I’ll talk to you next week