79 Transcript

079 The One with The Waste Water Guy (Part 2)


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0:08.0

0:12.6

welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast for
water treaters by water treaters where

0:12.6

0:16.5

we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems hi folks

0:16.5

0:21.9

Trace Blackmore here your host for
Scaling UP! and I am so excited we are

0:21.9

0:27.8

welcoming Kevin cope back Kevin cope was
so gracious to teach us all about

0:27.8

0:32.6

wastewater systems and it was just so
much information we couldn’t pack it in

0:32.6

0:38.2

just one show we have it in two shows
and folks I don’t want to keep going on

0:38.2

0:44.4

so you have to wait any longer
please welcome Kevin Cote back for part

0:44.4

0:50.8

two of our waste water series my
returning lab partner is Kevin cope of

0:50.8

0:55.5

Brent AG North America and folks I know
you’re tuning in because last week you

0:55.5

1:01.2

heard the best definition possible of
what you can expect to see in a

1:01.2

1:06.2

wastewater plant well today Kevin is
back and he’s going to share with us

1:06.2

1:11.7

what a water treatment professional
needs to do during the survey process

1:11.7

1:16.5

are you ready for this Kevin I am I’m
definitely ready all right so why don’t

1:16.5

1:20.0

you just take it from there you did a
great job explaining all the equipment

1:20.0

1:26.4

so we’ve all visually toured the plant
now we’re coming out with our brain and

1:26.4

1:30.5

we’re putting our brain to what we
learned last week and how do we help the

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1:34.5

customer how do we solve problems how do
we even begin to know what the problems

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1:39.0

are well that’s the great way to start
we already understand now the potential

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1:42.5

pieces of equipment that someone could
see when they go to a typical waste

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1:46.2

treatment plant we’ve already asked the
questions on what are you trying to do

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1:52.0

we’re trying to decrease sludge
dewatering meet discharge limits or you

1:52.0

1:55.0

know reduce costs we already already
know that so now we walk through the

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1:58.7

plant the first thing we want to do when
we walk through a plant any plant is

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2:04.5

collect as much data as possible I loved
as you guys all know I’m an artist so I

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2:09.2

always draw the plant you know one place
at a time I’m not real good at reading

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2:13.7

the engineering diagram so it’s better
if I can draw circles and clarifier and

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2:17.3

things along this line I also when I’m
walking through the plant I look for

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2:21.1

sampling points where do I get samples
what samples can I take

2:21.1

2:26.0

how are you treating this you know I
read the issues a lot of times I’ll ask

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2:30.8

the operators two about issues they’re
having not just necessarily what you

2:30.8

2:34.3

know the contact is said you know what
are other issues you’re having well

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2:37.8

we’re having issues making this polymer
dot it just doesn’t go into solution

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2:42.5

very well or you know these pumps just
we’re constantly losing prime on these

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2:47.3

pumps whatever the case may be
so I also when I’m touring a plant I’ll

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2:51.4

ask you know not only will I know the
issues that the decision makers trying

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2:56.9

to to achieve meet discharge limits I’ll
ask the operators because you know one

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2:59.8

of the things that’s going to come up
and you know it’s gonna come up too and

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3:04.3

bitter on the discussion is have money
treatments ever been sabotaged well they

3:04.3

3:08.0

have but if you start working with the
with the operators and really get to

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3:12.0

know these guys and and and women
wherever the case may be get to know

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3:15.8

them you know you start understanding
what their concerns are and why they

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3:19.4

like them maybe the company that’s in
there or what to cut me in there isn’t

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3:23.3

doing and really focus a little bit on
that so once you’ve determined the

3:23.3

3:26.7

issues and you know you’ve walked
through the plant now you want to run

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3:32.3

some dark jar tests and this I still
like the Gangstar it you get your

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3:36.4

gangster out according to trace and you
you start to run some tests with your

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3:41.6

gangster all right again I was like ten
years old and my defense my father was

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3:45.2

introducing equipment I had no idea what
it was being used for and I thought he

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3:50.6

said gangster no listen I I think it’s
great as you know I steal from people so

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3:54.6

I’m gonna use that the next please wait
for a training class you know the first

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3:58.8

thing you want to do is verify the
current program does the program work in

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4:03.1

the jars like it works in the system you
know what are the differences are to

4:03.1

4:08.0

sludge bit is this fought bigger any
jars or smaller in the yards then they

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4:11.9

settle faster so you really want to
verify the current program and its

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4:16.6

effectiveness and understand exactly
what that program is doing and what it

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4:21.4

isn’t doing you know it isn’t meaning
discharge limits or it’s not Hickey

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4:25.1

picking up all the pin flock whatever
the case may be you already know this

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4:30.3

but in your jars you kind of want to
verify that to see how you know what

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4:34.6

it’s doing and then once you know that
then you want to verify what your

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4:39.8

Oh Graham can do to make it better how
can your program so Kevin the starting

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4:42.9

point is that always the current program
is that where you want to start

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4:47.6

typically for me it is I mean a lot of
times they won’t give you the polymer

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4:51.6

from the competitor to run your tests
but if they do I always like to run that

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4:56.4

first just so I could visually look at
what they’re doing if they weld in in

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5:01.2

many cases they won’t then you just
start out running the jar test looking

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5:05.4

again always remembering in the back of
your mind you know we’re trying to meet

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5:10.5

lead or we’re trying to get better
settling what am I trying to do you know

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5:15.0

so ideally it’s nice to run the
competitors program first if that’s

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5:19.8

impossible
jar test with inline what are you trying

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5:24.4

to achieve you know am i trying to
reduce sludge can I go from an inorganic

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5:29.8

coagulant coagulant to reduce flood is
that something that’s possible

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5:34.5

so when you’re doing your test if you
can’t run the competitors program

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5:40.2

remember what you’re trying to do what
am I trying to improve the issue of I

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5:46.6

always have is there’s so many variables
involved so I try to come up with a

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5:51.4

process and I don’t think I’ve ever have
come up with a process I like so I ask

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5:56.8

you this question what is your process
at this step to make sure you cut out

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6:02.5

some of the variables so you’re working
towards a solution faster well my the

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6:07.4

way I like to do it I always like to do
this and I talked about this on the very

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6:12.2

first one we did for industrial water
week I like to go out and physically

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6:17.6

sample and look at what’s happening in
the plant what does the flock look like

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6:22.8

what does a settling look like and even
again now with the new digital cameras

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6:26.4

you can do listen to me
you can take pictures and get a sense on

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6:31.1

how fast it’s settling even take a
little video I like that process I think

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6:37.4

those cameras have been out for 20 plus
years yeah I guess you’re right they’re

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6:41.5

like like kids will listen to this and
tease me about it but but I I really

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6:46.8

like doing that I really like to
visually look at what they’re doing you

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6:50.1

know what what is
happening and then my process and and I

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6:54.4

and I wrote a paper on how I do my Jar
test and I do my Jar testing the same

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6:59.4

way every time you know I start out with
the coagulants the primary chemistry’s

6:59.4

7:04.3

for coagulants and i’ve zero in on those
and then and well let’s step back if

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7:08.7

you’re doing precipitation i look at the
best way to precipitate house the best

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7:12.7

way to precipitate nickel house the best
way to precipitate phosphate whatever

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7:17.7

the case may be that’s the first step
second step then is coagulation i go

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7:21.7

through the exact same chemicals every
time i start with the organic chemicals

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7:26.0

then I go to the inorganic chemicals
coagulants then I go to flocculants I

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7:30.6

look at a charge I look at the different
charges which is the best charge then I

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7:35.9

worked to best charge density and best
molecular way I do it the same way every

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7:38.5

time
and everybody has her own way of doing

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7:43.5

it I’m not saying mine is right this is
what works for me but when I’m doing my

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7:48.6

tests I always try to visualize what
does it look like in the plant that it’s

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7:53.6

settled very quickly did it settle
slowly I want to I want to mimic that or

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7:57.6

be better than that
or improve on what they’re trying to do

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8:01.2

we’re not getting enough we’re not
getting enough nickel out of the plant

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8:06.3

so now I go back I look is it a
precipitation problem or is it a flag

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8:11.9

ulation problem flocculation problem and
so I’m a big fan of when I’m running my

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8:17.3

Jar test a lot after I run a jar and go
out and physically look at the plant I

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8:21.0

mean that’s nice if you can be at the
plant doing a test there if you can’t

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8:26.1

when you’re touring the plant look at
how quickly flock occurs how big the

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8:30.7

flock is you know how wet is the sludge
look at all these things to get a handle

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8:36.0

on when you go back to do your Jar test
how do i improve on that enough that

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8:39.8

that answers but that’s kind of the way
I’ve I’ve done it I’ve always done it I

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8:44.7

think it’s a great way to answer it and
I think the bottom line is is you the

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8:48.5

individual have to come up with a method
and you need to stick to that method

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8:52.1

otherwise you’re going to be all over
the map and chasing your tail yeah

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8:58.5

that’s that’s really comes into a great
point is to often listen I’m as guilty

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9:02.3

of it as the next person some
starts to work and you get excited you

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9:06.9

know I mean you just like wow this is
great or you know and and you vary from

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9:12.0

what you typically do and I always try
to pull myself back and say no go

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9:14.8

through your steps
do it properly you’re the right way to

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9:18.7

do by doing it and then and then you
just feel better that you you you’ve

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9:22.5

actually accomplished something it’s
hard I got to be the first to a minute

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9:27.8

when when I started doing a lot of my
specialty is really removing oil from

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9:32.3

water I absolutely love to be involved
with removing oil from water just just I

9:32.3

9:36.5

find it fascinating and when I first
started and I started seeing some trends

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9:40.4

and things along this line I would just
get so excited that I would just like

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9:43.9

quitting wait to run to add the next
chemical to see what happened but I

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9:48.8

eventually I realized no I’ve got to
settle myself I’ve got to do it the same

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9:53.8

way every time so now that when I feel
when I’m done I feel very confident that

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10:00.1

I can verify exactly what I did and and
it’s hard I especially when things are

10:00.1

10:04.2

going really well you know it were
conversely when things were going really

10:04.2

10:07.2

poorly
you’re constantly let’s try this let’s

10:07.2

10:11.4

try this but if you get if you come up
with a mechanism that works for you or a

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10:15.9

procedure that works for you I think
that’s the the key to really becoming

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10:20.9

you know a you know a person that can be
very valuable in a waste treatment plant

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10:26.5

but again I and Kevin I got to
underscore that for the people out there

10:26.5

10:31.6

listening in the Scaling UP! nation that
have done waste water they are all

10:31.6

10:35.7

nodding their heads I can see them from
here and saying yes absolutely you have

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10:40.0

to make sure you follow through that
procedure because you might have only

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10:44.7

gotten it to one point but because you
went further you’ve wasted a lot of time

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10:49.1

and then you had to back up to that
point and duplicate all your efforts so

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10:54.1

for the new folks out there I think
that’s the biggest piece of advice that

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11:00.0

you can start right from the start with
is to make sure you always follow those

11:00.0

11:04.4

procedures and you make sure you get it
right before you move on to the next

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11:10.2

step I can’t tell you how much time I’ve
wasted because I get excited too you

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11:13.8

know you know I do the waste treatment
plant

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11:19.6

training with Steve litter Rick brusque
and Dave Ritz and each one of us have a

11:19.6

11:23.8

little different way of doing it and
some of them are very subtle some are

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11:29.0

very dramatic but it works for all of it
just because I like the way I do mine

11:29.0

11:35.2

doesn’t mean that that’s the way for you
and so we we we all kind of you know we

11:35.2

11:38.4

joke around a little bit about this but
we all have a little slightly different

11:38.4

11:42.4

way of doing it but for the most part
it’s a procedure that we feel very

11:42.4

11:46.9

comfortable with when we’re doing our
testing and therefore we feel very

11:46.9

11:52.3

comfortable we come to the end that what
we’ve done is correct okay and again

11:52.3

11:56.7

it’s slightly different but find your
own way of doing it and then stick with

11:56.7

12:00.9

it you know as long as it’s correct you
know me but you know find your own way

12:00.9

12:04.9

the way you feel most comfortable with
you know and do it that way every time I

12:04.9

12:08.4

mean that’s just that’s something and
again that’s me I mean so that’s the way

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12:13.6

I’ve done it for the most part I see
Steven and Dave and Rick doing it their

12:13.6

12:17.9

way but the same way every time
so Kevin if you don’t mind I’m gonna

12:17.9

12:22.1

take a little tangent for a second and
the people that you just mentioned

12:22.1

12:27.3

including yourself do the Association of
Water Technologies waste water training

12:27.3

12:35.0

and you guys do that for a fee of zero
to the AWT and one of the reasons that I

12:35.0

12:40.2

started this podcast was I wanted to
raise the bar in the in the industrial

12:40.2

12:44.0

water treatment industry and now it’s
gone to the entire water treatment

12:44.0

12:49.4

industry but you guys are doing that
with wastewater and I know there’s so

12:49.4

12:52.6

many people out there that don’t realize
that so I want to take this opportunity

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12:58.4

since I’m talking to you too thank you
for raising the bar in the water

12:58.4

13:02.8

treatment industry well thank you I
think I can speak for the other three

13:02.8

13:07.9

Dave and Steve and Rick we just really
enjoy I mean we enjoy the four of us

13:07.9

13:12.5

enjoyed getting together we enjoy seeing
the challenges that we’ve put forth

13:12.5

13:17.1

every time we enjoy working with the
people whether it being veterans or

13:17.1

13:20.9

being new people we just really have a
good time and we we jokingly say you

13:20.9

13:24.8

know in our class and you know we do
this we always tease you know you guys

13:24.8

13:28.0

you’re doing a boiler
water class they say hey you’re having a

13:28.0

13:31.8

lot more fun over in the wastewater but
we just have a really good time doing it

13:31.8

13:35.7

and it’s so rewarding
you know for all of us to see you know

13:35.7

13:39.3

people will call us after class and say
hey how do we do this how do we do that

13:39.3

13:44.6

and again it’s it we get back more than
we put in on at least I do and it’s just

13:44.6

13:48.7

it’s appreciate the comments but it just
it’s just a lot of fun and I I really

13:48.7

13:51.9

look forward to seeing those three guys
you know we get to see each other you

13:51.9

13:55.6

know every other year it looks like it’s
gonna be started being every year now

13:55.6

14:00.0

but just really enjoy seeing them and
really enjoy you know one the class is

14:00.0

14:03.7

over you know all the comments and the
people we get to meet so thank you but

14:03.7

14:08.4

it’s been a great time you got a great
time well you guys do a great job but

14:08.4

14:15.5

let’s get back to our issue at hand so
now we’re in the jar testing part of our

14:15.5

14:20.4

process where do we go from here well
let’s say let’s say butt jar testing is

14:20.4

14:24.0

over we’ve come up with a program you
feel very confident we go into the

14:24.0

14:28.1

customer explain you know here’s what
our program can do compared to what

14:28.1

14:33.6

you’re doing now or here’s how that said
let me also recommend that you can also

14:33.6

14:38.2

jar test your own accounts you know jar
test your own accounts and say hey

14:38.2

14:41.5

here’s what we’re doing right now I
think we can improve by doing this so I

14:41.5

14:44.6

don’t want this always saying it’s like
you know you’re going in and competing

14:44.6

14:49.4

with someone you’re can also be
competing with yourself how do i improve

14:49.4

14:53.8

this because your competition is always
looking how can I improve what you’re

14:53.8

14:56.9

doing
so think of that all so that you can jar

14:56.9

15:02.0

test periodically to say how can I make
my program better so be clear there

15:02.0

15:06.3

let’s say we figured out a way to make
the program better be it the competitors

15:06.3

15:10.3

or be it yours the next thing you want
to do is present this to the customer

15:10.3

15:15.4

and explain to them why your program is
better where will they benefit what what

15:15.4

15:18.7

will happen you know we’re going to
change this precipitant it is more

15:18.7

15:23.9

effective on on Zink than it is than the
one you’re using now so I recommend

15:23.9

15:28.7

let’s change the specifically and then
present that to the customer in a very

15:28.7

15:34.0

timely very well organized manner and
then ask for you know basically ask for

15:34.0

15:38.1

a trial and you’re it’s let’s just for
the sake of this discussion you’re

15:38.1

15:40.9

granted
eyal you know you want to make sure you

15:40.9

15:43.7

bring the appropriate amount of chemical
and you want to make sure you bring the

15:43.7

15:48.4

right product in you want to make sure
you understand what the feed systems are

15:48.4

15:52.5

do you have to bring in feed systems can
you use the feed systems that are in

15:52.5

15:56.1

there now if you’re gonna use the feed
systems in there now make sure they’re

15:56.1

16:00.2

cleaned out then I had one problem when
somebody did not clean out a tank

16:00.2

16:04.3

properly and we brought an organic
chemical in on top of an inorganic and

16:04.3

16:08.2

it turned into gel and we had a mess and
needless to say we didn’t get that

16:08.2

16:13.7

business but you know yeah you i won’t
take responsibility for that one but

16:13.7

16:17.9

bottom line is you got to clean the
equipment so you know really understand

16:17.9

16:22.8

clean the lines out flush lines up you
know that’s a key to making sure your

16:22.8

16:28.2

trial is successful making sure you
cover every little part of what can

16:28.2

16:33.4

happen again the equipment is always a
big issue is it their equipment or are

16:33.4

16:36.8

you bringing your equipment in or is it
the competitors equipment if the

16:36.8

16:39.6

competitors equipment then you’ve got to
figure out a way to get your own

16:39.6

16:45.6

equipment in there so but then once that
starts once the trial starts again I’m

16:45.6

16:51.1

big on sampling looking at it how is it
settling what is it doing and and you

16:51.1

16:55.2

know don’t get too excited initially
that it’s really working well or too

16:55.2

17:00.9

excited it it’s not working because a
lot of times it takes longer than what

17:00.9

17:05.4

you think it’s gonna take to get your
chemical through the plant all right too

17:05.4

17:11.1

often I’ve seen the place look terrible
and you’re like oh boy this is not going

17:11.1

17:14.9

well and then all of a sudden it gets
really good or vice versa it looks

17:14.9

17:17.3

phenomenal
and then it gets in it you know it

17:17.3

17:21.9

doesn’t look too hot so give it ample
time Kevin let me ask you a question so

17:21.9

17:26.9

one of the issues that I’ve always had
is when we’re starting a new program you

17:26.9

17:31.2

know I’m always waiting to see okay has
it made it all the way back is there a

17:31.2

17:35.5

better way to figure out what that rate
is I’ve always struggled with that

17:35.5

17:40.7

ironically one of our guys just gave me
I’m working on the the the app with the

17:40.7

17:45.8

AWT app we’re trying to get some
wastewater calculations in the AWT app

17:45.8

17:50.4

and one of our one of my guys a guy
named Jim Collins he spoke at the last

17:50.4

17:56.0

conference he has some calculate
since that he uses to figure out how

17:56.0

18:00.7

long it takes from entrance to a plant
to discharge from a plant before when

18:00.7

18:05.5

you start seeing your program and I did
some gross calculations when I was in

18:05.5

18:10.5

the field where I do flow in and try to
calculate the volumes and then flow out

18:10.5

18:15.8

to get an idea it was close I’d be lost
retrace I’ve not really looked hard at

18:15.8

18:19.8

Jim’s calculations I just got him last
week and just having that time but there

18:19.8

18:24.6

are calculations and and and hopefully
that’ll eventually get onto the AWT app

18:24.6

18:29.4

but there are calculations that you can
come up with a ballpark idea on how long

18:29.4

18:34.6

it’s gonna take mine were when I’d use
mine they were okay they weren’t great

18:34.6

18:38.2

and I haven’t had a real chance to look
at Jim’s but there are basic

18:38.2

18:43.2

calculations that you can go through to
figure out potentially how long it will

18:43.2

18:47.2

be from point a the beginning of the
plant to its till at least yeah well as

18:47.2

18:51.5

you know I’m the math guy so I’m always
looking for you know that perfect

18:51.5

18:55.1

calculation and I’ve got some that will
get you in the ballpark too but then

18:55.1

18:57.2

when I hit that time and nothing’s
changed

18:57.2

19:01.2

I get disappointed and I haven’t found
something that hits it every time one

19:01.2

19:06.5

thing I’m terrible terrible is the size
of things I can’t tell if a clarifiers

19:06.5

19:12.4

25 gallons or 2.5 million gallons I mean
that’s how far off I can be so when it

19:12.4

19:16.8

comes to us it is I said yeah that’s
right baby I know things I can’t do in

19:16.8

19:22.7

sizing things is something I just
flat-out can’t do and and so what I do

19:22.7

19:26.7

might we do my old calculations I’d
always miss but let me look at Jim’s and

19:26.7

19:30.0

like I said I just haven’t had a chance
really look at his but he had shared

19:30.0

19:32.7

something with me and I haven’t had a
chance to look at it but there are

19:32.7

19:36.9

calculations or you can come up with
that can give you a ballpark idea is it

19:36.9

19:41.2

six hours is it three days is it 20
minutes whatever the case may be but

19:41.2

19:45.0

I’ve personally never had a lot of
success with that but that has more to

19:45.0

19:49.8

do with my inability to really know how
big something is I’m a whiz with math

19:49.8

19:54.6

but when it comes to looking at
visualizing how big something is I’m not

19:54.6

19:57.7

real good at that I’m not real good at
that all right well that was just a

19:57.7

20:02.1

little aside for my benefit hopefully
the nation enjoyed that dialogue so

20:02.1

20:06.6

getting back to the actual field trial
so now we finally have our

20:06.6

20:10.7

product that’s in the system it’s in
there long enough when we can actually

20:10.7

20:17.1

see the result of what we are doing what
we get credit for now what well firstly

20:17.1

20:21.8

we want to make sure that we sampled
prior to our program starting we want to

20:21.8

20:25.8

make sure we sample whatever the case
may be if we’re trying to reduce sludge

20:25.8

20:28.9

how many truckloads a day are they
taking out or how many truckloads a week

20:28.9

20:33.2

are they taking out if they’re trying to
meet a discharge limit for chrome

20:33.2

20:37.2

whatever the case may be what are their
chrome numbers how often are they not

20:37.2

20:41.7

making their chrome limits is it once a
month is it once a day whatever the case

20:41.7

20:44.8

may be
no those numbers going in then once you

20:44.8

20:48.3

know those numbers then you start
testing your numbers accordingly

20:48.3

20:53.2

we’ve gone from a truckload a day to a
truckload every three days we’ve taken

20:53.2

20:58.3

chrome from one part per million down to
three-quarters of apart familiar

20:58.3

21:03.1

whatever the case may be know what those
numbers are and have the customer agree

21:03.1

21:08.6

with those numbers okay agree with those
numbers so that they feel very

21:08.6

21:13.9

comfortable that yes we are taking out a
truckload of sludge a day that is an

21:13.9

21:18.4

agreed-upon number now we’re taking one
out every three days so get those

21:18.4

21:22.4

numbers get them agreed upon then one
again use so now you start your trial

21:22.4

21:27.7

and you’re actually able to meet or
exceed what they’re doing okay

21:27.7

21:32.1

so key is have agreed-upon numbers
before you start because if you don’t

21:32.1

21:37.1

then it’s all over the place and then
then start your trial take your samples

21:37.1

21:41.0

know where you’re gonna send the samples
to if you need to have analytical work

21:41.0

21:45.9

done make sure you have the correct lab
or a lab set up for those samples make

21:45.9

21:50.2

sure they can run what you need to run
also the other thing potentially to do

21:50.2

21:54.8

is get the samples prior sent into your
lab so your lab runs them so you’re

21:54.8

22:00.1

comparing apples and apples so make sure
you have your data in place prior to

22:00.1

22:03.9

starting your trial with what they’re
doing now Kevin what are the issues that

22:03.9

22:11.6

I found is that how they test the actual
an illiterate and somebody might test it

22:11.6

22:15.7

as a certain species where the other lab
might not test it as the same species

22:15.7

22:20.3

can you speak to that a little bit on
that that’s not really been my lot

22:20.3

22:25.4

scene let’s add that again I think that
you and I but I can get it

22:25.4

22:31.1

so therefore you’d want to use the same
lab potentially the same lab or use your

22:31.1

22:35.9

lab and do it the same way so either
that I’ve seen I’ve not seen that a lot

22:35.9

22:41.7

but again we’re back to you know keeping
things as consistent as possible you

22:41.7

22:46.0

know we’re using the same lab with with
what’s going on now we’re gonna use the

22:46.0

22:50.3

same lab with ours or whatever the case
may be and worst case scenario if you’re

22:50.3

22:53.5

if you’re using two or more labs you
have to make sure that they’re at least

22:53.5

22:58.4

reporting the same way exactly but again
make sure you have those numbers going

22:58.4

23:03.1

in because if you don’t have those
numbers going in it’s an uphill battle

23:03.1

23:07.6

to convince someone that you’ve done
better thinking back about issues that I

23:07.6

23:11.9

have they probably all would have been
solved if I took your advice that you

23:11.9

23:16.3

just gave well I listened I wished I
could say I did it every time trace but

23:16.3

23:19.3

you know I mean you know this comes you
know things you learn you know you learn

23:19.3

23:22.9

them that you learn in the industry know
what your parameters are going in and

23:22.9

23:27.4

agreed-upon parameters and I’ve had
places where I’ve had agreed-upon

23:27.4

23:31.3

parameters I’ve met or exceeded the
parameters and those weren’t the right

23:31.3

23:35.0

parameters even though I had them
agreed-upon so these things happen but

23:35.0

23:38.5

it’s oh you always feel better if you
know what you’re trying to meet and so

23:38.5

23:42.4

that’s that’s a key for a successful
trial Kevin what are some other things

23:42.4

23:47.2

that we need to consider when we’re
doing field trials well the one thing

23:47.2

23:52.2

you did I know that has come up is how
long how long do you run a trial well

23:52.2

23:57.6

you run a trial based on what the
customers needs are I’ve had trials that

23:57.6

24:01.3

the customer has shut it down before it
even got started because we did really

24:01.3

24:05.5

high colonic ladies in Mexico wasn’t in
the states but you really want to make

24:05.5

24:09.8

sure you run a trial long enough to
verify what you’re doing if it’s a plant

24:09.8

24:14.1

that has a lot of changes you want to
make sure your trial is run through all

24:14.1

24:19.0

those changes not just for a day maybe
for a month for a week so saying how

24:19.0

24:23.8

long really is based more on what the
customer is trying to achieve and they

24:23.8

24:28.3

give up give a hard cold answer for that
is very difficult so work with the

24:28.3

24:32.3

customer to get how long a trial you
know if it’s a batch maybe run one or

24:32.3

24:36.7

two batches if it’s continued
us make sure you hit every one of the

24:36.7

24:42.8

potential changes they can have in their
plant during that trial period and so

24:42.8

24:46.1

now you’ve done that and you’ve had you
know you generated some successful

24:46.1

24:50.6

numbers and successful results you know
you need to talk with the customer and

24:50.6

24:55.8

show them in a very professional manner
what were you able to do you know during

24:55.8

25:01.3

the month of May a month of May you
exceeded your phosphate limit seven

25:01.3

25:07.5

times we started June first and from
June 1st to June 30th we did not exceed

25:07.5

25:12.3

phosphate ever we were always below it
and therefore I recommend we continue

25:12.3

25:17.5

with our program so whatever the case
may be you always want to show here’s

25:17.5

25:22.0

what we agreed on here’s how we better
that and then ask to continue your

25:22.0

25:27.2

program that’s a that that’s a key you
also want to make sure that you know

25:27.2

25:32.6

what what the chemistry that’s currently
in there how much do they have how much

25:32.6

25:37.6

they need to to go through before that’s
up to where your program can be put in

25:37.6

25:41.6

place permanently I should have maybe
mentioned that earlier but you know a

25:41.6

25:45.7

lot of times make sure there isn’t a
whole bulk load of chemical waiting and

25:45.7

25:49.6

it’s a year’s worth of bulk load of
chemical before they can switch to your

25:49.6

25:54.1

program understand what what the current
vendor or what the pro current program

25:54.1

25:59.0

has but then once you’ve had a
successful trial period present that the

25:59.0

26:03.2

customer well Kevin let me let me back
you up for a second what is your advice

26:03.2

26:09.0

if you found just so much of a better
solution than what their current vendor

26:09.0

26:14.5

is providing but yet their current
vendor has stockpiled them with a huge

26:14.5

26:20.1

amount of inventory is is that
opportunity over or in your experience D

26:20.1

26:24.5

what would you say to that customer well
what I would say that customers really

26:24.5

26:30.4

depends on how much how much of a what’s
or what I’m looking for of a problem

26:30.4

26:34.8

they’re having what kind of fees are
they paying right now based on the the

26:34.8

26:38.6

program they have in place if they’re
paying a thousand dollars a day in fines

26:38.6

26:42.8

and you can take that thousand dollars a
day away that pays for a heck of a lot

26:42.8

26:47.2

of chemical pretty darn quickly so it
really depends on how much you are able

26:47.2

26:50.7

to save that
and say look you know we can save you a

26:50.7

26:54.8

thousand dollars a day you can bleed
that chemical in maybe a gallon or two a

26:54.8

26:59.2

day just to get rid of it but think of
the amount of money you’re gonna save so

26:59.2

27:03.4

it really boils down there tres to do
the math to sit down and say if you

27:03.4

27:07.4

switch to my program here’s how much
money you can say even though you have

27:07.4

27:12.1

this amount of chemical in place so that
that’s that’s kind of it gets a little

27:12.1

27:17.0

dicey but if you’ve if you’ve got a
program it does so much better than by

27:17.0

27:21.6

gosh you can really sell that another
key and a lot of things come to me after

27:21.6

27:25.6

I think about it a lot of times if you
have you know you’re going after a

27:25.6

27:29.4

competitor you’re going to say to the
customer hey please don’t order any more

27:29.4

27:35.0

chemical into our trial is over or until
we’ve proved that because a lot of times

27:35.0

27:39.1

and some of the larger guys were
notorious for this the minute they heard

27:39.1

27:42.7

something was going on they would fill
up the ball tanks or fill up the

27:42.7

27:46.5

warehouse with their product and then it
made it difficult for the customer to

27:46.5

27:51.3

switch so you know be aware of that
going in but if you can save them if

27:51.3

27:55.8

they’re not mean discharge limits on a
metal or something then you know you

27:55.8

28:01.8

typically can force their hand to say
hey if we continue with this program or

28:01.8

28:04.0

user right now we’re losing a lot of
money

28:04.0

28:08.6

so Kevin let me ask you this so you’re
now doing the field trial you’ve talked

28:08.6

28:13.0

with a customer they like you but of
course the the incumbent vendor they

28:13.0

28:18.9

want to stay and while you’re doing your
field trial and over however many days

28:18.9

28:23.9

they get wind of what you’re doing and
now they try to duplicate your program

28:23.9

28:27.4

how do you handle that
well that just really comes to customer

28:27.4

28:31.0

relations you know and I’ve seen people
I’ve seen people do that I had that

28:31.0

28:35.2

happen to me and the con up in
Pennsylvania where I came in and this

28:35.2

28:38.4

was more on a D foamer
where I basically cut the D farmer from

28:38.4

28:44.2

600 parts per million to 12 and lo and
behold the incumbent came in and

28:44.2

28:48.8

switched their chemical chemistry to
mine it made me mad I mean and you just

28:48.8

28:52.5

wish it doesn’t happen but it does
happen I wish there was a you know a

28:52.5

28:56.7

magic wand that I could say here’s how
it happens but it just really boils down

28:56.7

29:01.9

to that the pre-selling is really what
it boils down to saying hey if I’m able

29:01.9

29:07.1

to switch and improve this operation
improve this situation will you go with

29:07.1

29:11.7

my chemistry and you know go with my
program you know for the most part I

29:11.7

29:17.2

think people are art are honest but you
are gonna get those ones that are gonna

29:17.2

29:21.8

say sure will change and then the minute
you’ve solved the problem they go with

29:21.8

29:26.6

their vendor I mean I wish I could say
it doesn’t happen but it does and you

29:26.6

29:30.9

know all you can do is just is try to
make sure upfront at least this is mine

29:30.9

29:33.8

I’m sure there are people who are much
better sales people I am have better

29:33.8

29:38.6

ways of doing it but making sure upfront
you come to that agreement as opposed to

29:38.6

29:42.8

when it’s over it’s better to have it up
front than what it’s over yeah

29:42.8

29:47.2

always always talk about your
expectations before you get started in

29:47.2

29:51.4

the process I love that advice exactly
and Kevin I got to tell you I had a

29:51.4

29:56.3

customer that it wasn’t wastewater it
was just regular water treatment and I

29:56.3

30:02.3

found several issues and it was when I
was relatively new and I of course

30:02.3

30:06.9

wanted to boast all the issues that I
found and they simply just gave that to

30:06.9

30:11.2

their current supplier and I asked the
gentleman I said well you know I don’t

30:11.2

30:14.7

think that’s very fair but the question
I have for you is what are you going to

30:14.7

30:18.8

do when the next problem comes up and
the gentleman looked me right in the eye

30:18.8

30:24.0

and said I guess I’ll get you to come
back and give us another free survey

30:24.0

30:28.8

yeah so I changed how I did things from
that point and I guess that’s my point

30:28.8

30:35.2

you have to learn from the results that
you get I totally agree that most people

30:35.2

30:40.3

out there are honest but we have to
protect ourselves for the very least

30:40.3

30:45.2

that we don’t have a lot of time to give
away because there are customers that

30:45.2

30:48.7

want us to help them and they’ll pay us
to do that so we just have to make sure

30:48.7

30:55.2

that we are doing things like setting
expectations and setting soft closes and

30:55.2

31:00.0

closing deals before we actually burn up
more of our time that we’ll never get

31:00.0

31:05.0

back sure I mean you know the thing and
one of the earlier discussions that I

31:05.0

31:08.9

saw some questions was you know what’s
the difference between wastewater and

31:08.9

31:11.8

boiler cooling water
well the biggest difference in my

31:11.8

31:15.3

opinion is in wastewater we can show
relative

31:15.3

31:19.8

quickly compared to boil the cooling
water on what our program has is able to

31:19.8

31:25.5

do but it doesn’t change the way we sell
as water treatment professionals we have

31:25.5

31:28.8

to make sure that we come to an
agreement prior you know if we’re

31:28.8

31:31.9

selling a cooling system
we’re gonna keep biological control

31:31.9

31:36.0

under control whatever these these
parameters are it’s the same for

31:36.0

31:40.0

wastewater as it is for boiling water or
processed water don’t think of it any

31:40.0

31:44.6

differently the only thing that’s
different is in wastewater we typically

31:44.6

31:50.2

can show our results more quickly
because we that it’s more of a visual

31:50.2

31:54.9

art for like a way to put it you can see
your app you can see your results

31:54.9

31:59.2

relatively quickly you know in a cooling
system if your start seeing pressures

31:59.2

32:03.5

going up across the heat exchanger you
know I have a problem are you seeing it

32:03.5

32:06.8

you know in a boiler starting to see
fuel consumption go up you know you have

32:06.8

32:11.7

a problem but that takes a little longer
in wastewater it’s pretty quick so

32:11.7

32:16.0

that’s really the only difference you
still need the same basic agreements

32:16.0

32:21.1

going in on a wastewater treatment plant
that you need on a on a boiler cooling

32:21.1

32:26.2

water application that’s a great way to
look at that yeah there’s really there’s

32:26.2

32:29.8

really no difference I mean that’s to me
that’s it’s selling 101 getting

32:29.8

32:33.6

agreements from the customer and then
and then meeting or exceeding those

32:33.6

32:37.8

agreements yeah
well Kevin let’s draw from you’re over

32:37.8

32:42.9

40 years of wastewater experience so
you’ve taken us through the process

32:42.9

32:49.2

where we now have a solution we’re happy
with it the customers happy with it and

32:49.2

32:55.7

then for some reason something happens
and it stops working what are some of

32:55.7

33:00.5

the most common things that you’ve
experienced that we can learn from so

33:00.5

33:06.8

maybe we can stop from happening on our
programs well the most common laughing

33:06.8

33:11.9

the most common never happens but it’s
the most common that happens and that

33:11.9

33:16.8

most common thing is somebody changes
something in the plant but they didn’t

33:16.8

33:22.3

change no nobody ever does that nobody
ever does that mean so so that’s the

33:22.3

33:25.2

most common
nobody’s ever does it nobody ever

33:25.2

33:29.2

changes anything the plantiffs hitter a
big grin on my face laughing

33:29.2

33:33.3

but that tends to be the most common and
again my background is very heavily in

33:33.3

33:38.2

oil and removing oils and things along
this line and in they all change the

33:38.2

33:41.6

surfactant they won’t even think about
it and that’s your fact that will then

33:41.6

33:46.5

screw up the ability for any polymer to
break and emulsion remove the oil but

33:46.5

33:49.9

that’s I mean it doesn’t happen all a
try but that’s really is the most common

33:49.9

33:54.6

the other the other more common is where
you know maybe they’re sampling problems

33:54.6

34:00.1

maybe you you know discharge limits
change and you’re unaware of that you

34:00.1

34:02.9

know you do get you know I know there
was some discussion about operator

34:02.9

34:07.9

sabotage but you know that I’ve seen
that happen but so rarely especially

34:07.9

34:11.0

once you get in and you work with those
guys but they’re really the biggest

34:11.0

34:15.6

problem I’ve seen or biggest change is a
change in the system that you’re not

34:15.6

34:21.3

notified about nobody tells you about it
we just put on a new a new a new line we

34:21.3

34:26.7

just changed from product data product Z
and you’re not told in advance that’s

34:26.7

34:31.9

typically the biggest problem that I’ve
seen is something changing the plant but

34:31.9

34:37.7

it takes it takes so long to figure out
that something has changed I think we’re

34:37.7

34:43.9

getting better as a as an industry on
dawn when things do change that we are

34:43.9

34:49.1

notified but it’s still not great so
that would be that’s my biggest

34:49.1

34:55.7

observation on what causes programs to
fail or not become as effective Kevin

34:55.7

35:00.6

when you were on the show for industrial
water week you mentioned that a lot of

35:00.6

35:07.8

times during ship changes somebody might
early make up a tank or they might late

35:07.8

35:13.8

make up a tank and now we don’t have
that constant dilution of the mixture

35:13.8

35:18.8

going into the plant what are some
things that we can do to help with that

35:18.8

35:23.3

well I think it does come back to
operator training making sure that

35:23.3

35:27.3

you’re they’re trained properly and tell
them a lie I mean a lot of times we just

35:27.3

35:32.0

say put it in when it gets to this level
okay well what happens if you put it in

35:32.0

35:36.1

too soon what happens if you put it in
too late here’s why here’s why it has to

35:36.1

35:41.3

go in at this specific time and explain
that here’s why and in the other comment

35:41.3

35:45.5

a lot of times you know they just don’t
understand and if you take time to

35:45.5

35:50.0

explain and train them and say here’s
why and you know look if it does go down

35:50.0

35:54.1

too low or you have to add it earlier
let me know you’ve done it so we

35:54.1

35:58.7

understand what’s going on I get it you
know you have to get to a recital for

35:58.7

36:02.7

your daughter so you got to make sure
you leave at exactly five o’clock I get

36:02.7

36:07.3

it and so you know you can’t you can’t
be putting it in right at five o’clock I

36:07.3

36:11.6

need to be out the door so if you
explain to them why this is important I

36:11.6

36:15.9

think that’s really kind of a key to
making sure that they understand why

36:15.9

36:19.3

they’re doing what they’re doing
too often we just tell them do this do

36:19.3

36:23.9

this do this I think that people Lisa
nowadays they want to know why why am I

36:23.9

36:28.7

doing this what are the ramifications if
I do it differently then if I if I do it

36:28.7

36:32.9

the way you say it you know and and I
think that’s really a key is is operator

36:32.9

36:37.8

training letting them know exactly why
you’re doing what you’re doing so that

36:37.8

36:41.9

that’s how I would answer that I’ve had
real good success with explaining to

36:41.9

36:45.5

folks you know in the plants me know
what I was doing the service which has

36:45.5

36:48.9

been a while but that’s what I used to
always do I’d go in and sit down and

36:48.9

36:52.5

talk with them maybe not maybe not
making a formal training but just sit

36:52.5

36:55.9

down and talk to him and say I know
sometimes you you know you’re late on on

36:55.9

36:59.5

turning this up or turning this stuff
here’s why it’s important to do it and

36:59.5

37:02.9

if you can’t get to it
I understand but let me know you know so

37:02.9

37:06.9

we know what why there was a problem at
this particular point in time

37:06.9

37:13.1

have you ever created a mix chart based
on the graduations of the mix tank and

37:13.1

37:17.3

if they have so many gallons left then
this is what you need to add or just

37:17.3

37:24.2

that over complicate the situation I you
know I’ve never done more Trace when

37:24.2

37:29.4

we’ve done batch treatments where we’ve
had a batch that we needed to treat and

37:29.4

37:34.1

it added the chemical according they’re
not so much in making unmake down

37:34.1

37:38.6

systems I mean a lot of times now the
customers have the automated make down

37:38.6

37:43.8

systems it’s not as Neanderthal as it
was when I was in the field I have done

37:43.8

37:47.6

that but more along the lines of you
know you’re treating a batch of a

37:47.6

37:51.2

thousand gallons here’s how much you put
in if the batch is only 800 here’s how

37:51.2

37:55.4

much put in I’ve done more along that
line where we’ve said here’s how much

37:55.4

38:00.4

chemistry you need to put in
as far as as far as dilution I get a

38:00.4

38:04.4

little worried I’m doing that because
you know if you think about emulsion

38:04.4

38:09.1

polymers you really need to be in a
certain range you start getting over or

38:09.1

38:14.4

under that range especially over I did a
cartoon one time where I where I a guy

38:14.4

38:18.9

was making a polymer make down in a
batch tank and instead of making a one

38:18.9

38:22.8

percent solution he made a ten percent
and it was like this monster coming out

38:22.8

38:28.7

of the tank because it turns into a gel
so I was all it’s just a decimal aw yeah

38:28.7

38:31.8

yeah try to make it a ten percent of an
emulsion die

38:31.8

38:37.5

you’ve been warned a dozen law but III
can see how you could do that I’ve never

38:37.5

38:42.1

really had an opportunity to do that my
need has been more for treatment of a

38:42.1

38:46.6

batch tank a lot of times you know when
you’re talking oils they’ll do batch

38:46.6

38:50.0

tanks and they won’t always be a
whatever the number is thousand gallons

38:50.0

38:54.3

sometimes they may be light some things
a me it may be heavy so I would do you

38:54.3

38:58.5

know calculations based on that you know
here’s at a gallon to a thousand and

38:58.5

39:01.8

three quarters of a gallon to 750
whatever the case may be

39:01.8

39:08.2

any advice you have for that one plant
that just can’t keep an operator and

39:08.2

39:12.3

you’re constantly training people are
there things that obviously you can’t

39:12.3

39:16.4

help their HR issues that’s probably the
real problem here but is there anything

39:16.4

39:20.9

that you can do to help since you know
you’re gonna have to Train somebody else

39:20.9

39:24.5

because you’ve trained ten other people
to make that process a little bit more

39:24.5

39:28.9

efficient and more effective for you the
one thing I would think and this just

39:28.9

39:33.5

companies just thinking off top my head
is potentially do it like you know we do

39:33.5

39:37.4

webinars periodically your friend tag
and record a webinar and have it

39:37.4

39:41.4

recorded that if they do get new people
at least the first step that they could

39:41.4

39:46.6

see would be the webinar the you’ve done
on how to you know what what are some of

39:46.6

39:50.4

the key points for the operator and so
they’re the original training could be

39:50.4

39:55.1

done through a webinar series and then
get in and then follow up with on-site

39:55.1

39:59.0

so that’s something that I would I would
think that could work very nicely would

39:59.0

40:03.9

be to do a basic little webinar training
of the plant walk the operator through

40:03.9

40:07.5

here’s the importance of coagulation
near the importance of flocculation

40:07.5

40:11.6

specifically around their facility that
might be and then

40:11.6

40:15.5

the customer could have that readily
available on YouTube that they could set

40:15.5

40:19.2

the guy down the person down on their
first day or second day whatever the

40:19.2

40:23.5

case may be and walk them through that
but then come in and follow up and make

40:23.5

40:27.0

sure you answer any questions they have
but I think that would be a way of doing

40:27.0

40:30.9

it I mean we used to you know have the
old PowerPoint ones that we leave with

40:30.9

40:36.2

the operator but I think nowadays you
know recorded one would be fantastic and

40:36.2

40:40.8

I hear those new digital cameras
actually take video sorry I couldn’t

40:40.8

40:50.4

resist I think that’s fine I I think I
really enjoy you know you know being me

40:50.4

40:54.0

I don’t say being I guess being older
and you know making comments like that

40:54.0

40:58.0

just laughing it I’m sure that I laugh
that some of the guys had taught me

40:58.0

41:02.4

years ago I mean I mean you know I mean
it you know it’s all in what you

41:02.4

41:06.7

remember what you do and you know but I
think I do think it’s funny when I made

41:06.7

41:11.0

made the comment about the digital
camera but I remember my very first

41:11.0

41:15.6

digital cameras when I was with Calgon
and it was a 1.8 megapixel digital

41:15.6

41:21.8

camera I do a lot of photography the
camera that I have right now if the car

41:21.8

41:27.9

that was in my original camera wouldn’t
even put one picture on that car I mean

41:27.9

41:32.0

that’s just the mind-boggling to me I
could not get one picture on the card

41:32.0

41:35.6

that came with my first digital camera
so that and that was back when I was

41:35.6

41:39.8

with my training manager Calgon so it’s
amazing how far it’s come

41:39.8

41:45.4

Kevin let me ask what has been the
funniest thing in wastewater that you

41:45.4

41:50.8

have ever seen well the funniest thing
of wastewater is the one I said there

41:50.8

41:55.4

there’s been one account in my entire
career that is different than any

41:55.4

42:01.3

account I was ever in and it was it was
it was at a railroad in North Bend

42:01.3

42:07.7

Roanoke Virginia I get called there and
they had put a brand new plant in and I

42:07.7

42:12.5

think I was with tree lighter Dearborne
I can’t remem I’ve been Dearborn so I

42:12.5

42:17.2

get down get down to the plant I’m a I’m
a model Rail Runner so model railroad

42:17.2

42:21.5

enthusiast I get down and I get there
and walk into the plant and there are

42:21.5

42:28.0

eight or ten open-pit Sam
altars right and five on each side I’m

42:28.0

42:32.2

pretty sure was five five on each side
and a conveyor belt that goes from one

42:32.2

42:36.0

down the middle
from one to the up to the other end a

42:36.0

42:40.9

conveyor belt right and they were having
problems with blinding of these sand

42:40.9

42:45.0

sores right they wanted to come up with
a polymer for treating these sand

42:45.0

42:49.5

filters right so I get on and I’m
looking at this that mean there’s the

42:49.5

42:54.3

pics there’s the Pittsburgh coming out
at me that I cannot say the word down so

42:54.3

42:58.0

anyways I go down to this account I go
in there and I’m looking and there

42:58.0

43:02.4

twitting there they’re putting water
into each money top said sand films the

43:02.4

43:05.9

water percolates down through the oil
gets stuck on the top in the water

43:05.9

43:09.7

percolates down through and goes out to
the waste treatment or the sewer

43:09.7

43:14.5

wherever case may be and they wanted to
make the polymers to be more effective

43:14.5

43:19.0

in taking oil on I go how did you get
the oil out of these things

43:19.0

43:25.1

once they you know they they fill up
they actually had their operators go

43:25.1

43:32.2

down with shovels this is how it would
design trace with shovels shovel the oil

43:32.2

43:37.0

off the top of the sand filters and
stick it up on the belt that was running

43:37.0

43:42.0

to remove the oil all right if you
started on one nd there was an incline

43:42.0

43:45.8

of I’m sitting there drawing with my
finger there was an incline of this

43:45.8

43:50.4

conveyor belt on the center by the time
he got that and not five the two at the

43:50.4

43:55.4

end I made a joke I said you’d have to
bring the Los Angeles Lakers in to put

43:55.4

43:59.0

the sludge on the belt because the belt
was like three feet over top of these

43:59.0

44:10.0

guys heads who designed this I mean it
was the most bizarre thing I have ever

44:10.0

44:14.1

seen in my life to this day it’s still
the one that stuck out most bizarre

44:14.1

44:18.8

thing I’ve ever seen in my life and and
the these guys were getting just covered

44:18.8

44:23.5

with oil because she could well imagine
taking a like a coal shovel putting on

44:23.5

44:28.6

oily was pretty liquidy and trying to
put it up over your head three feet and

44:28.6

44:34.7

stick it on to a belt turns out that the
guy that put the plant in knew he was

44:34.7

44:38.4

getting fired the engineer and so he
designed it that way

44:38.4

44:41.9

just
to make it a mess Wow this day it to

44:41.9

44:47.4

this day it is still it is still the
funniest thing most bizarre thing I’ve

44:47.4

44:52.8

ever seen a wastewater treatment plant
and it’s so much more fun when I can

44:52.8

44:55.6

actually draw the picture I shown
somebody how to do it but that’s

44:55.6

44:59.7

literally how they did it they and they
I don’t think the plant lasted about but

44:59.7

45:03.4

three months they they went back to the
old plant and put a new one in we

45:03.4

45:05.9

couldn’t help them do any what are you
gonna do you couldn’t help do anything

45:05.9

45:10.6

but yeah that higher taller people well
that was my point was get the Lakers the

45:10.6

45:17.0

do the number that’s the fifth fifth
sand filters but that’s what they did

45:17.0

45:20.3

they pump the water in the water would
percolate down through the oil would

45:20.3

45:24.6

step on the top and the goal was to go
in and then scrape it off and put it up

45:24.6

45:29.7

onto this conveyor belt but the end one
the fifth one or the very last one ever

45:29.7

45:34.5

you know two on each side and they came
down the center was up two feet over the

45:34.5

45:37.2

top I’m six foot tall it was two feet
over my head

45:37.2

45:42.0

Wow gonna be kidding me yeah still that
I won’t say the name of the company but

45:42.0

45:46.2

it was in it was in Roanoke Virginia and
it was a railroad in Roanoke Virginia

45:46.2

45:51.3

yeah still to this day that is the one
waste treatment plant that I’ve been in

45:51.3

45:56.5

that I’ve never seen anything remotely
close to the same so when they said

45:56.5

46:00.2

you’ll you’ll never see anything like
this again in your career and they they

46:00.2

46:05.6

are to this day 40 years was 835 years
later they still are the only waste

46:05.6

46:09.2

treatment plant that I’ve ever been in
but I’ve never seen anything remotely

46:09.2

46:14.8

close to that that time they meant it
yeah yeah well can’t you not only came

46:14.8

46:20.4

on this week you were on the week before
so somebody’s just tuning in they

46:20.4

46:24.8

haven’t heard this episode they didn’t
hear last week’s episode what’s the one

46:24.8

46:29.6

thing you want to leave the Scaling UP!
nation with well from a wastewater

46:29.6

46:34.4

standpoint for anybody and we’re really
focusing this on new people is really

46:34.4

46:37.9

know what you have a plan when you go
through the waste treatment plan I

46:37.9

46:43.0

understand what you’re trying to remove
what you’re trying to improve the

46:43.0

46:48.7

operation don’t just jar test the jar
test now for young folks a lot of times

46:48.7

46:52.7

it’s good just to go in and jar tests
understand how to do it

46:52.7

46:56.5

okay but as you become more seasoned
after you run two or three jar tests

46:56.5

47:01.8

make sure you have a plan how am I going
to improve what they’re doing what are

47:01.8

47:06.9

their needs and that’s really the key I
mean too often I’ve seen people run jar

47:06.9

47:10.8

tests just to run jar tests and that’s
the one thing I’d like to leave anybody

47:10.8

47:14.8

that’s new and waste water it’s great to
go out a lot a few jar tests to get them

47:14.8

47:18.6

under your belt but once you feel
comfortable make sure you’re doing it

47:18.6

47:22.4

with a plan and with a purpose so that’s
the one thing I would like to leave you

47:22.4

47:27.3

know the younger people in the
wastewater industry that is some good

47:27.3

47:32.8

advice Kevin this has been a lot of fun
I’m not quite done with you yet we did

47:32.8

47:36.8

not do lightning round questions last
week so that means we are going to do

47:36.8

47:42.0

them right now are you ready for the
challenge I am ready all right so my

47:42.0

47:47.7

first question if you could go back in
time and visit yourself on your first

47:47.7

47:51.9

day as a wastewater treatment
professional what advice would you give

47:51.9

47:56.9

yourself well what the advice I would
give myself and I’m I’m really proud of

47:56.9

48:02.5

this right now is understand all aspects
of our market when I started I started

48:02.5

48:06.4

in wastewater but then when I went to
Cal not I got to understand boiler

48:06.4

48:11.9

cooling water and process water I think
that if I knew then what I know now I

48:11.9

48:16.7

would have started understanding
function of scale function of corrosion

48:16.7

48:21.7

function of biological control back when
I started in wastewater I think as

48:21.7

48:26.9

wastewater professionals and as we see
water reuse water recycle becoming more

48:26.9

48:31.3

and more and more prevalent and more
needed I think that that is the piece of

48:31.3

48:36.3

advice I would have given myself 40
years ago get to understand everything

48:36.3

48:40.9

and so that would be the advice I would
give new people to now understand boil

48:40.9

48:45.7

corn water processed water and waste
water look at it all as water treatment

48:45.7

48:49.7

great advice
what are the last three books that

48:49.7

48:54.1

you’ve read well I’m actually reading a
book right now on the Indianapolis it’s

48:54.1

48:59.0

not the history of the Indianapolis and
then again I’m an artist but my last

48:59.0

49:03.5

three books have always been I read a
lot or look at a lot of books about art

49:03.5

49:08.0

looking at different artists that
they’ve done things I don’t remember I

49:08.0

49:12.3

think I’m a big van Gogh fans I think
probably one of the last books would

49:12.3

49:17.1

have been on Van Gogh I’m a big Vermeer
fan I think the other book would have

49:17.1

49:21.9

been Vermeer so I do I do
I rebelled so look at the pictures in a

49:21.9

49:26.3

lot of art books so those would be my
three my three answers Kevin what are

49:26.3

49:30.0

some of your favorite wastewater
treatment resource books

49:30.0

49:37.2

well back to really just the Internet I
really don’t have any real AWT resource

49:37.2

49:43.8

books we have a manual online through
the AWT that’s pretty good we’re

49:43.8

49:47.4

hopefully we can maybe redo that but
that was a tough one tres because I

49:47.4

49:51.7

really don’t have I think my resources
tend to be internet and then friends

49:51.7

49:55.4

within the industry that I call and ask
questions too so that’s the way I would

49:55.4

49:59.5

answer that I don’t really have any
really good wastewater books that I

49:59.5

50:04.0

would recommend okay fair enough so
here’s the one we’re gonna have some fun

50:04.0

50:10.1

with because I know some stuff about you
so if someone plays you in a movie and

50:10.1

50:12.7

we know it’s just a matter of time
before that happens

50:12.7

50:20.0

who would it be that’s plays Kevin cope
in that movie okay I know everybody

50:20.0

50:24.8

knows me is waiting for this answer so
so I the Mike Meyer it might my answer

50:24.8

50:29.8

would be I would say Michael Keaton
because he’s a Pittsburgh okay but but

50:29.8

50:35.1

but this is really a big big caveat here
Sharon Stone has to be in the movie

50:35.1

50:39.8

because a lot of my friends know this
that I was actually on a date in college

50:39.8

50:45.8

with Sharon Stone so yes the Shan Stone
in Basic Instinct I went to college with

50:45.8

50:50.4

Sharon now that said I was on a double
date with Sharon she was dating an

50:50.4

50:54.2

attorney brother of mine but we went on
a date together she rode in the back

50:54.2

50:59.5

seat of my Pinto station wagon and and
she would not remember me I see was a

50:59.5

51:04.1

she was a scuse me I think a sophomore
when I was a junior I don’t I know she

51:04.1

51:07.9

didn’t finish school at the Edinboro
State College in Edinburgh Pennsylvania

51:07.9

51:12.2

but somehow Sharon Stone would have to
be in that movie to make it truly a

51:12.2

51:16.9

Kevin Koch movie so my answer to you
Michael Keaton but Sharon Stone would

51:16.9

51:19.8

have to be in the movie somewhere or
sometimes so

51:19.8

51:25.5

now you guys didn’t have boiled rabbit
on this date did you boiled rabbit well

51:25.5

51:30.7

I didn’t remember I didn’t remember that
I did it’s been so long since I’ve seen

51:30.7

51:35.3

that movie but yeah just uh it’s just
funny because I there was a picture

51:35.3

51:40.0

taken of me and I was not dating my wife
time my wife had not a gun to college at

51:40.0

51:44.3

that point but it was me and a young
lady named Carol and then Sharon and

51:44.3

51:47.8

Pete and there was a picture of the four
of us standing it we went through a

51:47.8

51:52.4

house in a fraternity we went to another
fraternity down in Cambridge Springs and

51:52.4

51:55.9

there was a stairway when you walked in
and everybody that came in they took

51:55.9

52:00.1

pictures of us and there’s a picture
somewhere out there me and Carol and

52:00.1

52:05.0

Sharon and Pete but I’ll be darned if I
can find it but yeah but yes so I was I

52:05.0

52:09.1

was on a double date with with Sharon
Stone that’s my my Hollywood claim to

52:09.1

52:11.9

fame
I’ll get my team to comb the internet

52:11.9

52:17.6

and we’ll see if we can put that up on
the show notes page trust me there’s

52:17.6

52:20.7

been a lot of people coming here that
tried to fly that picture

52:20.7

52:24.2

all right and thanks for not knowing
about the boiled rabbit see now I just

52:24.2

52:29.3

seemed mean towards it sorry about that
sorry but sorry my final question for

52:29.3

52:34.1

you so you now have the ability to talk
to anybody throughout history who would

52:34.1

52:38.2

it be with and why well you know I
listen to Jim this was my answer before

52:38.2

52:43.2

I listened to Jim Lucca the truth saying
would be my mom and my dad they’ve been

52:43.2

52:47.6

going for about thirty years and it
would just be great for them to hear

52:47.6

52:51.8

what their kids have done there their
grandchildren and you know just that

52:51.8

52:56.1

would be my that would be my answer I
just I just would love to sit down with

52:56.1

53:00.9

them one time and say here’s what their
grandchildren have done and I just think

53:00.9

53:04.7

it’d be great and that would be that
believe up to be maybe my answer it’s a

53:04.7

53:08.0

good answer and I can’t have a
conversation with my parents either so

53:08.0

53:12.9

Scaling UP! nation if you have that
opportunity to talk with the people that

53:12.9

53:16.4

made you take advantage of that
opportunity

53:16.4

53:20.3

absolutely absolutely so all right I
don’t know where that came from that was

53:20.3

53:23.8

just a little public service
announcement Kevin this has been so much

53:23.8

53:31.7

fun you are a master of taking the
complex and explaining it simply so

53:31.7

53:36.5

everybody can get engaged
and everybody can visualize what you are

53:36.5

53:41.6

describing as I mentioned in the last
episode I’m definitely ripping off a lot

53:41.6

53:45.9

of the techniques that you use to
describe things because it’s so simple

53:45.9

53:50.9

and everybody can visualize it I want to
thank you for coming on Scaling UP! and I

53:50.9

53:55.3

want to thank you for educating the
Scaling UP! nation it’s been my pleasure

53:55.3

53:59.4

and as you can tell I really enjoy the
water treatment industry and any hope I

53:59.4

54:02.7

can give anybody that’s that’s what I
love doing so thank you again thanks for

54:02.7

54:09.2

having me nation I know that that did
not disappoint in any way shape or form

54:09.2

54:14.8

and I know a lot of you out there have
written in and you want to get into

54:14.8

54:19.7

wastewater you’re maybe into cooling
towers and boilers and closed loops or

54:19.7

54:24.1

maybe you’re treating some other type of
water and there’s also a wastewater

54:24.1

54:30.6

opportunity there for you well now I
hope you have a common frame of

54:30.6

54:37.8

reference on what wastewater is and what
the professionals job is who’s running

54:37.8

54:43.3

that program when it’s all said and done
in that wastewater plant this is

54:43.3

54:48.1

probably one of those interviews that
you are going to listen to again and

54:48.1

54:56.3

folks if you have not signed up for an
AWT technical training you need to do

54:56.3

55:02.4

this because we are now offering
wastewater every year and Kevin is one

55:02.4

55:07.9

of the speaker so in addition to Kevin
painting those awesome pictures in your

55:07.9

55:11.3

mind you know he’s actually a pane or
two I wonder if there’s some sort of

55:11.3

55:17.0

metaphor there anyway I digress so he
can put you there

55:17.0

55:21.5

at the equipment and then he’s also got
pictures in his slide deck so if you’ve

55:21.5

55:25.8

never seen a particular piece of
equipment before it’s right there

55:25.8

55:32.8

looking at you of course with his
fantastic narration so I hope that you

55:32.8

55:39.3

put on your calendar to attend the AWT
technical training seminars so go to AWT

55:39.3

55:44.4

or you can find out when those are going
to be of course I will be there

55:44.4

55:49.4

hopefully at each and
every AWT seminar because I’m enjoy

55:49.4

55:55.4

doing that and bringing my information
to you guys as well folks I hope that

55:55.4

56:03.9

you use today to make whatever you’re
doing one percent better if you can just

56:03.9

56:10.3

get one percent better each and every
day imagine where you’re going to be at

56:10.3

56:17.0

the end of a week at the end of a month
at the end of a year but you have to pay

56:17.0

56:23.4

attention to that what are you going to
do today that was better than you did

56:23.4

56:30.3

yesterday and again when you can hold
yourself accountable to somebody else

56:30.3

56:36.1

you’re gonna make sure that you get it
done how many of us decided that we were

56:36.1

56:42.3

going to work out each and every morning
in the new year and probably January 2nd

56:42.3

56:48.1

we hit that snooze and we did not keep
that commitment to ourselves commitments

56:48.1

56:53.4

we make to ourselves are the hardest
commitments to keep so tell somebody

56:53.4

56:57.9

else about them and make sure you’re
holding each other accountable folks

56:57.9

57:07.1

thanks so much for listening to Scaling UP!H2O and I’ll talk to you next week

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