Scaling UP! H2O

101 Transcript

The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.

0:08.1

0:12.3

welcome to Scaling UP! the industrial
water treaters podcast

0:12.3

0:17.8

hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore
here your host for Scaling UP! h2o the

0:17.8

0:22.1

podcast where we’re Scaling UP! on
knowledge so we don’t scale up our

0:22.1

0:28.7

systems I am going to let you know in on
a secret

0:28.7

0:37.7

in 1997 I met a gentleman that spoke to
me at the AWT Technical Training

0:37.7

0:43.6

conference and that gentleman was
British and he seemed to know a whole

0:43.6

0:50.1

bunch about water treatment and he did
not mind letting me know anything that I

0:50.1

0:56.3

wanted him to let me know about he was a
fantastic guy I didn’t know him at all

0:56.3

1:03.5

back then so for the past over 20 years
I have been able to call this gentleman

1:03.5

1:09.3

a friend and I was very fortunate today
he showed up at our offices here at

1:09.3

1:15.3

Blackmore Enterprises just to say hi and
the person I am talking about is Colin

1:15.3

1:23.5

frein CWT if you have been at any
AWT function you have met Colin frame he

1:23.5

1:30.7

is synonymous with AWT he is one of our
best speakers he has so much experience

1:30.7

1:37.2

he speaks about 40 different languages
he is just a heck of a guy and he has

1:37.2

1:43.1

been in water treatment for quite some
time and as you know from listening to

1:43.1

1:48.3

this show you cannot be in water
treatment without making some mistakes

1:48.3

1:55.6

so Colin was so gracious to come on the
show to share some of his experiences

1:55.6

2:02.0

what he does on a day-to-day basis how
he got into the industry and all things

2:02.0

2:08.5

water treatment so I know you are going
to enjoy my interview with Colin frein

2:08.5

2:16.6

CWT my lab partner today is Colin frein
CWT Colin thank you so much for coming

2:16.6

2:21.3

on Scaling UP! h2o been trying to get you
on the show it seems like the longest

2:21.3

2:26.5

time now you were gracious enough to
stop by the office and here you are

2:26.5

2:29.9

it’s a pleasure to be here even if I
haven’t actually had a cup of coffee

2:29.9

2:32.4

from you yet
well I’ve offered you a cup of coffee

2:32.4

2:36.2

you just did it’s fine now it’s good to
be here obviously it’s very impressive

2:36.2

2:39.9

and I like it yeah it’s good
well the Scaling UP! nation a lot of them

2:39.9

2:44.9

know Colin frame I’m sure there’s a few
out there that don’t know who Colin is

2:44.9

2:49.5

so tell us a little bit about Colin
frame okay well I shall never see 70

2:49.5

2:55.5

again I suppose there’s the start and
I’ve been in the business now of 55 56

2:55.5

3:00.7

years something like that and continue
to enjoy it every day and what I really

3:00.7

3:05.1

enjoy are the challenges that come up
every day the problems that need solving

3:05.1

3:12.2

the people that could do with some help
and assistance the the sheer range of of

3:12.2

3:16.8

problems and activities where water is
involved one way or another but also

3:16.8

3:20.2

even if you think about oil and gas
business and you think well it’s

3:20.2

3:24.3

primarily the the oil that we’re
interested in well even that has massive

3:24.3

3:30.3

water problems and so is is very
interesting and I’ve got to the stage I

3:30.3

3:36.5

guess where even though I’m a paid
consultant and my hourly rate is pretty

3:36.5

3:41.4

high the interest in the job outweighs
the money that I get and so I’m always

3:41.4

3:45.1

keen to take on jobs even if they don’t
necessarily pay a lot if it’s a really

3:45.1

3:51.5

interesting project or a problem to
solve wherever it is and it might be 15

3:51.5

3:57.6

or 18 thousand feet below ground in a
South African gold mine or it might be

3:57.6

4:02.9

ten thousand feet in the air in a
Peruvian copper mine there’s some of the

4:02.9

4:07.3

things I’ve done and and some of the
stuff it takes hours and hours and days

4:07.3

4:11.2

and days you might even take 24 hours to
go from home to wherever the location is

4:11.2

4:15.7

and once you got there there is no
five-star hotels you know but but simply

4:15.7

4:20.4

solving problems is really good really
interesting I can’t remember who said it

4:20.4

4:23.0

but if you do what you love you never
work a day in your life

4:23.0

4:27.2

well in which case I’ve never worked you
know I talked to water treaters and some

4:27.2

4:30.9

of them don’t feel like they enjoy their
job find something else right because

4:30.9

4:35.6

you’re proof that you can love water
treatment and if you don’t find

4:35.6

4:39.1

something else is something else
yeah there’s there is there

4:39.1

4:44.1

no shortage of problems to be solved
you’ve got to get out there and and

4:44.1

4:50.9

solve them and part of the solution is
really really understanding this

4:50.9

4:56.1

business that we’re in if you take it
from the view of I’ve got four service

4:56.1

4:59.8

calls to do today and when it’s done
that I’m finished until tomorrow you’re

4:59.8

5:03.0

never going to be able to learn anything
and there are plenty of people I know

5:03.0

5:05.9

they’ve been in the business a dozen
years and I’ve got a dozen years

5:05.9

5:10.1

experience except they don’t they have
one years experience repeated a dozen

5:10.1

5:13.2

times
you’ve got to expose yourself to fresh

5:13.2

5:17.3

challenges and part of that means that
you’ve got to continue learning you’ve

5:17.3

5:21.1

got to read AWT books you’ve got to read
the literature you’ve got to expand your

5:21.1

5:25.1

mind
my current bedtime reading is advanced

5:25.1

5:30.0

biochemistry and it may sound dead but
it’s dead interesting it’s really really

5:30.0

5:35.2

interesting you know and it’s not that
far away from what we currently do in in

5:35.2

5:40.4

water treatment and I suspect that as
the the science continues to grow and

5:40.4

5:44.7

expand and we get involved in new things
actually having a qualification in

5:44.7

5:50.5

biochemistry can be a big help to water
treatise so lots of things to do lots of

5:50.5

5:56.0

interest absolutely Colin I’m curious
how did you get involved

5:56.0

6:00.9

all right so you know that I’m English
originally I’ve gathered that right I

6:00.9

6:03.8

tell I tried to tell people it’s a
Georgia accent but they don’t really

6:03.8

6:09.9

believe me so so I’m English I was born
just after the Second World War and and

6:09.9

6:15.1

if you knew especially London or
Manchester in those days they were big

6:15.1

6:19.0

bomb sites everything was a mess there
was no money we had a lease lend

6:19.0

6:23.2

arrangement with the USA we owed
billions of dollars that we had to pay

6:23.2

6:28.3

back so there was nothing our food was
rationed you know I think my mother

6:28.3

6:32.2

could get four eggs a month that sort of
stuff and meat was very difficult to

6:32.2

6:36.7

come by so it was tough so when I grew
up it was it was tough it wasn’t that

6:36.7

6:41.4

that we never went without food good
because we didn’t we always lived in a

6:41.4

6:45.9

decent property they were obviously
rented in fact we actually lived in an

6:45.9

6:50.9

American manufactured prefab for some
years I’m not sure that they would go

6:50.9

6:54.5

down well these days because I’m pretty
sure that most of the exterior walls

6:54.5

7:01.0

were made of asbestos but we grew up
that but when I got to the age of 16 and

7:01.0

7:04.8

I was in in what was called a Grammar
School so a high school at the age of 16

7:04.8

7:09.2

my father said son there’s no money in
the house you need to leave school and

7:09.2

7:13.1

get yourself a job and I’ve decided that
you’re going to be a chemical engineer

7:13.1

7:17.5

you have a job interview at Ford Motor
Company tomorrow morning 8 o’clock do

7:17.5

7:19.7

not come home if you lose it there you
go

7:19.7

7:24.4

and so I you know quite frankly I didn’t
at that age didn’t even know how to open

7:24.4

7:32.3

a bank account so I took a double decker
red bus to to Dagenham which is part of

7:32.3

7:38.3

London on the River Thames and went for
for an interview and I found out that

7:38.3

7:44.9

they were offering three jobs as
apprentice chemists or chemical

7:44.9

7:50.4

engineers I got offered one of those in
20 minutes I’m not sure it was because I

7:50.4

7:53.6

knew anything it was just maybe the guy
wanted his own cup of coffee and was

7:53.6

7:59.2

clean you know glad to get rid of me but
I I got a job in 20 minutes and then I

7:59.2

8:04.6

was told to report back on Monday
boarding at eight o’clock to a power

8:04.6

8:09.8

utility plan and it was Ford Motor
Company Dagenham x’ power utility plan

8:09.8

8:15.1

and at that time they the number of
people vary but it was generally between

8:15.1

8:22.2

50 and 60,000 employees on one location
now the location was about 10 miles long

8:22.2

8:26.7

and five miles wide on the river and
because you had all these engine plants

8:26.7

8:31.6

and foundries and and what’s called MSBs
metal stamping body division and paint

8:31.6

8:36.2

trim and assembly buildings they had to
have their own power station and so I

8:36.2

8:40.0

reported there and I’d know obviously
never been inside a power station before

8:40.0

8:47.0

and I went up to to the laboratory and
the chief chemist was doing the

8:47.0

8:51.4

Telegraph crossword looked up at me and
said so you’re the young lad that’s come

8:51.4

8:57.0

for for a job yes he said okay so you’re
gonna be doing lots and lots of

8:57.0

9:01.9

different kinds of analysis and so look
at a one window what do you see so I

9:01.9

9:06.5

said well there’s a whole bunch of
locomotive steam locomotives he said yes

9:06.5

9:09.3

he said they’re the stockyard
locomotives she said you’re looking

9:09.3

9:14.3

after the water treatment on every one
of those oh so he said so look out of

9:14.3

9:18.9

another window what can you see I said I
can see a big pile of coal he said yes

9:18.9

9:23.6

he said we used pulverized coal fuel in
our high-pressure boilers and you’re

9:23.6

9:28.1

gonna be looking after the quality and
quantity of the pulverized fuel so

9:28.1

9:31.4

you’ll be doing sieve analyses and
things like they said so you’re gonna be

9:31.4

9:35.2

like black with coal dust every single
week when you do that who way to love

9:35.2

9:39.8

that yeah who would love that so so then
I had some other things to look at which

9:39.8

9:44.9

included the lime soda softener and then
a Kennecott ion exchange plant and I

9:44.9

9:50.6

obviously I knew nothing about that and
when I started the following morning in

9:50.6

9:56.5

the laboratory then I was doing oxygen
tests we had no oxygen meters had not

9:56.5

10:01.6

been invented in those days and so the
sampler used to go in with stainless

10:01.6

10:06.9

steel pots and take maybe 20 25 samples
and then I had to do oxygen test so I

10:06.9

10:13.6

had to be proficient in doing a wet
laboratory analysis it was a modified

10:13.6

10:18.5

vinkor test and i used to be able to do
within a short time he should be able to

10:18.5

10:25.9

do maybe 25 water samples for color
change for walk for oxygen analysis in

10:25.9

10:30.0

under about three minutes because you
had to be fast otherwise oxygen would

10:30.0

10:37.1

disappear and then I used to do bomb
calorific work on on the quality of the

10:37.1

10:42.4

coal the BTUs of the coal steaming coal
and then I used to do deposit analyses

10:42.4

10:46.4

for maybe 20 different metals and
everything was gravimetric because

10:46.4

10:51.8

nobody had invented ICP or anything like
that in those days even doing things

10:51.8

10:57.9

like conductivity the the conductivity
meter weighed 30 pounds and it was made

10:57.9

11:03.2

of wood and you actually had to wind up
the the machine first of all to get an

11:03.2

11:08.4

electrical charge before you did your
conductivity so things have changed in

11:08.4

11:13.8

50 odd years but that was that was how I
started so I worked for those guys four

11:13.8

11:19.2

and a half days a week at Ford Motor
Company and then one full day and two

11:19.2

11:24.1

evenings I went to university in those
days it was called a polytechnic but it

11:24.1

11:30.5

became North London University and so I
worked like six days a week and I would

11:30.5

11:34.7

work the hours that the shift workers
would be which would be anywhere between

11:34.7

11:39.4

eight and twelve hours a day and so in
winter in a foundry for example he never

11:39.4

11:43.4

saw daylight until the weekends and I
never got paid much money I like five

11:43.4

11:48.8

dollars a week but there was no cottage
debt or anything like that I when I was

11:48.8

11:52.9

22 I got my first degree bachelor’s the
equivalent Bachelor of Science

11:52.9

12:00.0

equivalent and by then I had worked in
the power plant the sintering plant on

12:00.0

12:06.4

ships metal stamping body division paint
trim assembly will plant foundry Forge

12:06.4

12:13.2

pig iron plants steel plant byproducts
plant what else that had done a whole

12:13.2

12:16.8

bunch of other stuff in several
countries as well and then from there I

12:16.8

12:20.4

got a promotion but I was doing a
master’s degree and then I got a

12:20.4

12:26.0

promotion and I went to the European
research and development center of Ford

12:26.0

12:31.5

Motor Company and I became their
in-house chemistry and microbiology

12:31.5

12:36.3

consultant and so I used to have to go
and fix problems all around

12:36.3

12:40.2

or motor company I had never had my own
money to spend I would spend the plant

12:40.2

12:43.8

managers budget and but he would phone
and say we have big problems with

12:43.8

12:49.1

cooling towers or boilers or something
going wrong closed loops that were

12:49.1

12:54.8

scaled up because they were using
silicate rock as a closed-loop chemistry

12:54.8

12:59.4

as he used to spend other people’s money
to be able to do that and that meant

12:59.4

13:06.5

that I got to see Nalco and Dearborn and
betts and Drew and those guys and I had

13:06.5

13:11.0

authorities to spend money with those
people but it wasn’t my money and I

13:11.0

13:18.2

remember the day that bits came into the
you cave and they took like the top 100

13:18.2

13:22.4

potential customers I guess and I was
one of them because I represented Ford’s

13:22.4

13:27.2

and we went to a five-star hotel in
stratford-on-avon and I got a bits

13:27.2

13:31.4

handbook and I thought the world can’t
get much better than this in water

13:31.4

13:36.4

treatment and that was a long time ago
so after Ford where did you go then Oh

13:36.4

13:42.8

after Ford I after about nine and a half
years I realized that I would not get

13:42.8

13:47.4

any significant promotion at four
because I was a chemist and a chemical

13:47.4

13:51.9

engineer but I was not an auto engineer
and you needed to be an automobile

13:51.9

13:57.2

engineer to be able to to move on so I
decided I would leave and I got a job as

13:57.2

14:02.1

chief chemist of an environmental
services business and I spent half of my

14:02.1

14:08.5

time looking at problems like PCB
contamination of quarry’s and cows dying

14:08.5

14:14.0

that was in Wales and then I’d go over
to Europe and I would look at industrial

14:14.0

14:18.4

canals that would change color every
couple of kilometers and then you having

14:18.4

14:23.0

to do Bo DS and co DS and analysis and
then work with laboratories to show them

14:23.0

14:27.3

how to do the sampling and the testing
and stuff like that and and that went on

14:27.3

14:33.3

for a couple of years and then one day I
got a call in fact a visit from from a

14:33.3

14:38.9

regional manager of ciba-geigy which
later metamorphosized into bwa but in

14:38.9

14:43.3

those days was not only an innovator in
chemistries but it also a service

14:43.3

14:49.3

company and the guy said Colin how would
you like to have a new car every single

14:49.3

14:52.6

year
a similar sounds fantastic what do I

14:52.6

14:58.0

have to do he said sell go sell so I
became a Salesman a water-treatment

14:58.0

15:04.3

technician and technologist and sold and
somehow or another within the first 12

15:04.3

15:09.8

months I became the top salesman it was
mainly because I took on a big steel

15:09.8

15:14.4

plant that was outside my territory but
obviously I knew how to run steel plants

15:14.4

15:19.6

and so that that helped with significant
volumes and the result of that was that

15:19.6

15:25.9

I got a promotion and then I became
country manager and so I said okay well

15:25.9

15:29.1

this sounds very good there’s more money
and it’s a better job country manager

15:29.1

15:35.1

which country and and it was Iran so I
went to live in Iran and you know I

15:35.1

15:41.1

speak pretty good persian farsi and and
then when the whole world blew up with

15:41.1

15:47.3

the revolution and and and my family was
not safe anymore i couldn’t travel

15:47.3

15:51.8

unless i travel with them and then there
was shooting and hangings in the street

15:51.8

15:55.4

and stuff like that it was time to leave
and so we left at the time the kamini

15:55.4

15:59.8

came in but i’ve been back to iran since
us I love the country and then came back

15:59.8

16:03.5

for a while and I then I was from there
I was working in Scotland and Ireland

16:03.5

16:07.5

and in northern France and then I got
asked to go to South Africa and I’d

16:07.5

16:12.6

lived it was there for years then I was
in Abu Dhabi and Singapore and several

16:12.6

16:19.1

other places and so quite frankly it was
from from the day that I went to Iran

16:19.1

16:23.9

mid-seventies was the day I then became
an international water treater and

16:23.9

16:28.7

that’s what I’ve been doing for the last
goodness knows how many years since then

16:28.7

16:33.3

and still do it today
and still love the business as much as I

16:33.3

16:38.2

did from the beginning again more
evidence if you love what you do you

16:38.2

16:42.1

don’t work a day in your life yeah now
I’m not sure I love sitting on a plane

16:42.1

16:47.7

for 17 hours but sometimes that’s what
you have to do to to do the job you know

16:47.7

16:53.4

I was in in southern Africa twice last
year and that’s 17 hours each way you

16:53.4

16:57.9

got a China you got a you know you fight
is Chicago we fly to Hong Kong and then

16:57.9

17:02.0

you change and the same thing from from
leaving your house to get into the hotel

17:02.0

17:05.4

is 24 hours and
I don’t think any of that stuff has got

17:05.4

17:10.1

any better at all but at the other end
you have people who are interested in

17:10.1

17:14.5

you because you hold a key to be able to
solve a problem and that’s where I think

17:14.5

17:18.6

I’d come back to something that we
discussed earlier and that is you have

17:18.6

17:24.9

to keep learning in this business there
is so much to learn and none of us are

17:24.9

17:28.8

ever going to be true masters now you
know I’m I’m a fellow of the Royal

17:28.8

17:35.1

Institution of chemistry and I got my
name in the Queen’s diary in The Times

17:35.1

17:40.0

of London to say that I’d been approved
as a as a fellow so I’m pretty good

17:40.0

17:45.7

chemist and I could probably tell you
more than you ever wanted to know about

17:45.7

17:52.8

maybe I don’t know 250,000 chemicals but
I’m 72 and there’s a hundred million

17:52.8

17:57.0

chemicals so the chance that I’m ever
going to know anything really about that

17:57.0

18:02.4

is limited so I say again part of this
part of this talk I think is for me to

18:02.4

18:07.4

reinforce that you’ve got to enjoy this
business but to enjoy it you’ve got to

18:07.4

18:11.7

keep learning and the more you learn and
knowing the the nature of our business

18:11.7

18:16.7

where everybody ever eventually gets to
know everybody else if they know and

18:16.7

18:20.4

respect you for who you are and what you
can do and what you bring to the table

18:20.4

18:24.3

whether it’s in strategic analysis or
whether it’s in technical problem

18:24.3

18:27.6

solving you’re gonna get a better job
you’re going to enjoy yourself I don’t

18:27.6

18:31.8

know about the money but but it’s the
enjoyment in the job is the key thing I

18:31.8

18:35.6

think that’s great advice I know there
are a lot of people listening some are

18:35.6

18:41.0

very seasoned water treaters some just
started what are some resources that you

18:41.0

18:44.5

can recommend for the water figure out
there that does want to learn more well

18:44.5

18:49.2

I think you’ve got to do stuff on your
own I can recommend a whole bunch of

18:49.2

18:55.2

books and quite frankly the AWT has a
wide range of books on offer and even if

18:55.2

18:58.9

you think that one or two of them are
not particularly within your direct

18:58.9

19:02.2

sphere what you’ve got to do is to say
what am I going to be doing in five

19:02.2

19:06.1

years time if it’s the same darn job
you’re not going to enjoy it but it but

19:06.1

19:09.9

if you’ve got some aspirations you need
to learn a wider spectrum of things and

19:09.9

19:16.2

you can you can get some books from the
AWT but in addition to that think of a

19:16.2

19:19.9

subject and check it
because you’ll find it on Wikipedia you

19:19.9

19:24.0

know you want to know about you know
biochemistry you want to know about oil

19:24.0

19:27.7

and gas you want to know about food and
beverage you want to know some very

19:27.7

19:35.4

specific subject there’s something for
you in Wikipedia on the internet look it

19:35.4

19:40.1

up learn it the more you learn the more
you absorb the more valuable you’re

19:40.1

19:43.3

going to be and for most people in this
business

19:43.3

19:48.1

most of us working for a water treatment
services company or a supplier or

19:48.1

19:53.8

something really our job is to be a cash
generator if the company doesn’t grow no

19:53.8

19:58.6

one does well so your job is to be a
cash generator and you can generally

19:58.6

20:03.0

generate more cash if you know more if
you’re more experienced if you’ve got

20:03.0

20:08.7

more knowledge if you can speak about a
couple of specific jobs and if you can

20:08.7

20:13.4

turn the experiences that you’ve got
into how to problem solve some future

20:13.4

20:18.7

problem down the line you’re going to be
really successful I know you speak a lot

20:18.7

20:25.2

on this when you did the sales training
for hey WT and you would say that each

20:25.2

20:30.6

salesperson had a minimum amount of
revenue that they had to bring in or

20:30.6

20:36.1

they were costing the company money can
you speak a little towards that yeah as

20:36.1

20:41.1

I’ve said all of the water treatment
companies and the suppliers all have a

20:41.1

20:46.6

common objective one is that the company
continues to exist the second is that it

20:46.6

20:51.1

has to be profitable and the only way it
could be profitable is either to sell

20:51.1

20:56.4

chemicals to somebody else at a decent
markup on their quality or you’ve got to

20:56.4

21:01.8

provide some other form of equipment or
service but all of them ultimately

21:01.8

21:06.6

results in cash generation and that’s
why when we’re we’re looking at a

21:06.6

21:11.2

water-treatment territory and perhaps
we’re trying to sell into that it’s no

21:11.2

21:15.1

point just going after the million
dollar jobs because they might take

21:15.1

21:19.1

three or four years to bring in there’s
no point going after the thousand dollar

21:19.1

21:22.9

jobs because you can bring Lots in but
they don’t bring much money so you have

21:22.9

21:27.9

to have a balance of smaller jobs
medium-sized jobs and larger jobs for

21:27.9

21:34.3

the long term and and develop those
but you you quickly get known whether

21:34.3

21:38.8

you are really good at your job whether
you really know something with your keen

21:38.8

21:42.3

whether you’re interested it’s like
going for a job interview hello is that

21:42.3

21:46.5

job interview last 45 minutes perhaps
something like that how long does it

21:46.5

21:50.6

take for the interviewer to make a mind
up hour whether you’re potentially

21:50.6

21:55.6

hireable less than three minutes so if
he takes three minutes to decide that

21:55.6

22:00.0

you’re the person that’s required the
other 42 minutes is essentially used to

22:00.0

22:05.4

justify their original conclusion but
equally if you’re no good they’d all be

22:05.4

22:08.8

sold you know I can identify that very
quickly as well

22:08.8

22:14.2

so you have to keep learning one way or
another and the more you learn and the

22:14.2

22:20.5

more you push yourself to learn and the
more you push yourself to to go onto a

22:20.5

22:24.8

new job to be taken out where there is a
real problem maybe even if it’s just a

22:24.8

22:29.0

junior and you go out with a senior
person you’ll learn from every single

22:29.0

22:33.1

experience and ultimately all of that
gets stored in your brain and it will

22:33.1

22:36.5

come out at the right time
when you have to solve problems yourself

22:36.5

22:42.9

and customers aren’t really always that
interested in saving money that we all

22:42.9

22:47.1

know they say that but what they really
want is an easy time they don’t want

22:47.1

22:50.6

problems they don’t want the production
to suddenly shut down they don’t want

22:50.6

22:54.8

unexpected health and safety problems
they want an easy time and if you can

22:54.8

22:59.9

help them get an easy time because of
what you know how you work what you

22:59.9

23:04.5

bring to the table you’re going to enjoy
the job your customers gonna love you

23:04.5

23:08.6

and everybody’s gonna make money which
is the objective in the first place

23:08.6

23:15.1

let’s shift gears just a little bit we
have both said the acronym AWT at least

23:15.1

23:19.8

half a dozen times so how did you get
involved with the Association of Water

23:19.8

23:22.4

Technologies and why do you still stay
involved

23:22.4

23:27.9

okay so I’ve spent more than half my
life overseas probably three-quarters of

23:27.9

23:33.6

my life living in different countries
overseas and the AWT does not exist

23:33.6

23:37.7

anywhere else
there’s a couple of countries where

23:37.7

23:42.4

there is some decent organizations so
for example in the UK there is

23:42.4

23:48.9

a Water Management Society which is
similar to a WT or their as a slightly

23:48.9

23:54.5

different format but it does do lots and
lots of regular teaching as as a

23:54.5

24:01.3

mechanism to enhance the membership I’ve
worked for lots of big companies and in

24:01.3

24:08.5

general even when I worked for service
companies they were too big to either

24:08.5

24:13.5

become an AW team member as as a water
treatment company or they considered

24:13.5

24:19.2

themselves too big and so I never really
got involved and I’d been in living in

24:19.2

24:27.2

the USA for probably six years I guess
and knew of the AWT but the reality is

24:27.2

24:32.4

they don’t really know very much until
it was suggested to me in New York City

24:32.4

24:38.1

that maybe I could help and do some some
lectures and so I was put in touch with

24:38.1

24:44.4

my new boss Bruce Catterick and Bruce
said yeah in this gruff voice yeah I’m

24:44.4

24:48.3

sure you can be useful you can help us
and do some lecturing and I think it was

24:48.3

24:53.8

1989 it might have been 1919 it was in
New Jersey and from that day since I’ve

24:53.8

25:00.2

never stopped lecturing and I’ve enjoyed
myself every day since meeting all the

25:00.2

25:04.4

different people in all the different
parts of the country and now more and

25:04.4

25:09.3

more international and the things that
we do and the professionalism that we

25:09.3

25:15.4

have what we bring to the table I now
know is the envy of everybody I speak to

25:15.4

25:21.7

in other parts of the world we just wish
there was an AWT in Africa or an AWT in

25:21.7

25:27.0

South America or an AWT in Southeast
Asia but they don’t exist this has taken

25:27.0

25:33.3

nearly 30 years to bring to the position
that it’s now in but it it I’m not

25:33.3

25:37.7

necessarily sure it’s the voice of all
the people but it’s it must be one of

25:37.7

25:44.2

the most preeminent water industry
associations if not associations of any

25:44.2

25:48.5

description and the way that it works
the things that it does the Brotherhood

25:48.5

25:52.8

and sisterhood that it has is just
marvelous that everyone is prepared to

25:52.8

25:57.7

spend
time and money and an assistance kinds

25:57.7

26:01.2

assistance in helping other people I
think is great and it’s been overall

26:01.2

26:04.6

it’s been a wonderful thing for the
water industry and for me personally

26:04.6

26:09.4

it’s been great meeting all these
different people including you that’s

26:09.4

26:14.5

right yeah it’s been really really
wonderful I want to say it was 97 when

26:14.5

26:18.7

you and I met and it was at an AWT
technical training and we were

26:18.7

26:23.2

discussing before this recording the
technical training we have today is far

26:23.2

26:29.1

different than what it was back in 97
yes but if I recall that was when you

26:29.1

26:33.9

just came out with your boiler water
books and your cooling water books

26:33.9

26:37.1

yeah a year or so after that I think I
began to come out with those yeah the

26:37.1

26:41.6

cooling water came first and then the
boiler waters came after that yes are

26:41.6

26:45.7

those still getting produced I get I’ve
had a check for 20 years well there you

26:45.7

26:50.1

go I get a little check every single
year at the end of the year from the

26:50.1

26:54.4

publisher and shows me all of the sales
and so there’s the boiler books and the

26:54.4

26:57.4

cooling water books and then there’s the
little handbooks that go with it and

26:57.4

27:00.8

then I is another book I wrote actually
but he got published in Thailand and

27:00.8

27:04.8

that was because I was working in
Southeast Asia for many many years and

27:04.8

27:10.0

and that was good that was me lecturing
and I tell you what after a while you

27:10.0

27:17.0

get fed up with my Brit accent you know
and but the poor souls in Southeast Asia

27:17.0

27:22.9

they have to suffer me for eight hours a
day so that’s for two hour lectures

27:22.9

27:29.8

every day they then have to suffer me
for five days so 20 lectures each of two

27:29.8

27:38.1

hours I give and we probably have an 80
90 students with 14 or 15 languages and

27:38.1

27:43.1

obviously I am useless at Cambodian and
Vietnamese and Thai and Malay and

27:43.1

27:48.0

Indonesian and stuff like that but he’s
wonderful the people will come and they

27:48.0

27:53.1

all have the same problems that we see
in the exchange forum they have the same

27:53.1

27:57.2

problems that we discuss every single
day it’s not as if what we have in

27:57.2

28:00.7

America is any any different the
problems that we have the ways that we

28:00.7

28:06.2

have to solve it that need to to know to
create cash or to conserve it’s the same

28:06.2

28:10.6

all
the world but unfortunately they don’t

28:10.6

28:15.4

have an aw T which is why I’m really
really pleased to see that every single

28:15.4

28:20.3

year every edition of the handbook that
comes out there are more and more

28:20.3

28:27.7

Australian and Southeast Asian and South
American companies and personally it’s

28:27.7

28:33.7

good because I get jobs we saw you in
the AWT we thought we’d found you can

28:33.7

28:37.7

you come to Australia and fix this for
us well sure if there’s some money and

28:37.7

28:41.5

it will do that if there isn’t well
maybe you’ll still come anyway there you

28:41.5

28:44.9

go
as seen at the AWT I’ve seen at the AWC

28:44.9

28:48.9

exactly yeah we’ll call it I want to
divert your attention over to my

28:48.9

28:52.4

bookcase if you see on the second shelf
up right in the middle there are your

28:52.4

28:56.8

books right there Wow did you pay for
them I actually paid for them when they

28:56.8

29:01.8

first came out with the AWT and I got
you to sign right and then when I left

29:01.8

29:07.1

that company they kept those books so
those are unsigned copies but I had one

29:07.1

29:11.8

of your original versions that you had
out and they were signed and I think you

29:11.8

29:16.3

told me something in the signature about
having bookworm itis well I can sign the

29:16.3

29:18.7

McGuiness abdullah there you go there
you go

29:18.7

29:24.4

I’ll see what I have alright wallet so
with a WT there might be some listeners

29:24.4

29:29.0

out there that are not familiar I don’t
think you can be a listener of the show

29:29.0

29:34.5

and not be familiar with a WT but you
had said that you have to learn everyday

29:34.5

29:38.3

when you’re a water treat or would you
say that being a member of an

29:38.3

29:43.3

organization like that makes that task
easier yes it does because you don’t

29:43.3

29:48.5

always have to do everything on your own
and just look at the size of the USA

29:48.5

29:53.3

it’s not one country I don’t know how
many is it’s probably not fifty but it’s

29:53.3

29:58.3

at least six or seven or eight different
countries in terms of the the geography

29:58.3

30:04.4

and the people and the kinds of industry
that we have and every one of those

30:04.4

30:09.2

presents different kinds of problems
we’re here in the southeast they’ve got

30:09.2

30:12.6

they’ve got boilers and coolers up in
the southwest but it’s a totally

30:12.6

30:18.2

different scope of work that has to be
done to solve them

30:18.2

30:22.8

this is very different the Northeast up
in Philadelphia and New York is very

30:22.8

30:27.3

different and just by meeting these
people we learn about the problems they

30:27.3

30:31.5

have and how they go about solving them
and and a good thing I think about the

30:31.5

30:37.8

water industry is it doesn’t matter what
the problem is that the customer has

30:37.8

30:42.2

there’s at least four or five or six
different ways to solve it so if you can

30:42.2

30:45.9

understand the different ways and maybe
you might pick those up from speaking to

30:45.9

30:50.6

other people and AWT train you or
convention you add that to your own

30:50.6

30:55.3

arsenal you become stronger there isn’t
just way to solve anything do you want

30:55.3

30:59.2

to solve it with a maximum equipment
with the maximum chemistry with the

30:59.2

31:03.6

minimum hands-on with the maximum amount
of a rolls-royce solution rather than a

31:03.6

31:07.2

Chevrolet solution there’s lots of
different ways and you can pick all that

31:07.2

31:12.4

up by talking to other people and
learning from them and most people at

31:12.4

31:17.7

the AWT quite frankly are just like me
we love to talk so if you ask the right

31:17.7

31:22.2

questions you’re gonna get all sorts of
free information from those people well

31:22.2

31:26.4

let’s talk a little bit about that
because AWT recently replaced the

31:26.4

31:30.8

listserv where you could send an email
in and blast it out to everybody who

31:30.8

31:34.5

signed up for it with the exchange form
you and I had a dialogue before we

31:34.5

31:39.3

started recording about the exchange
forum do you mind telling the Scaling UP!

31:39.3

31:45.0

nation what that is and why it’s a
benefit the exchange forum is

31:45.0

31:51.2

essentially a marketplace where people
can go for information nobody has the or

31:51.2

31:55.6

even an old guy like me doesn’t have it
all or I’ve probably got more than most

31:55.6

31:59.7

simply because of the number of years
I’ve been in it but all the time people

31:59.7

32:04.4

are coming up against problems that need
solving they go and see a new prospect

32:04.4

32:08.6

or they have an existing customer that
develops a different kind of a problem

32:08.6

32:14.2

and the water treater whoever is on site
whether it’s the boss of the overall

32:14.2

32:18.9

business whether it’s the technologist
whereas the technician they’re seen to

32:18.9

32:22.2

be the person that is going to solve the
problem

32:22.2

32:27.9

they’re the water doctor and we don’t
all have all the answers there and then

32:27.9

32:34.5

so if we don’t ask somebody so we
right on the exchange problem what our

32:34.5

32:40.9

problem is hopefully give some basic
information about the size and the scale

32:40.9

32:43.9

of the problem we’re not going to give
you the customers but where it’s located

32:43.9

32:49.2

and some fundamentals or maybe a little
bit of water analysis and then say this

32:49.2

32:54.0

is my problem this is some base
information can anybody out there help

32:54.0

32:59.6

me solve it or give me some ideas some
direction and and everybody is willing

32:59.6

33:04.7

to help everybody is willing to pitch in
and give it an opinion give some ideas

33:04.7

33:10.9

and and very often they’re absolutely on
the mark now if I was to criticize it I

33:10.9

33:14.1

would say that some of the people that
writing don’t give sufficient base

33:14.1

33:17.3

information can you solve the problem
for me well there’s five different

33:17.3

33:21.4

solutions which one would you like and
and I can’t always give you all the

33:21.4

33:25.4

solution in fact I don’t want to give
all the solutions but I’m very happy to

33:25.4

33:29.7

give a direction to the people that
write in and say have you tried this

33:29.7

33:35.5

have you tried that go down this route
and then let those people explore those

33:35.5

33:39.4

potential solutions because if you get
them all the answers there’s nothing

33:39.4

33:43.9

else for them is better that you give
them a direction and then let them find

33:43.9

33:48.1

out for themselves and then implement
that and that process works very well

33:48.1

33:53.9

and so I love just going on the exchange
forum and just looking I don’t always

33:53.9

33:58.2

respond and I think no you should know
that you know your CWC you should know

33:58.2

34:02.9

that but if they don’t well sometimes
I’ll give them a help sometimes I’ll

34:02.9

34:06.8

even talk to them privately and say look
this is my advice this is where to go

34:06.8

34:13.6

and it’s good but for me quite honestly
it was a another I open of the AWT is

34:13.6

34:18.7

absolutely full of its of exciting
things and I think I know a bit but I

34:18.7

34:22.3

don’t know them all so just coming on
the exchange forum and having a look and

34:22.3

34:25.8

see what questions people ask to and
what the solutions are directions they

34:25.8

34:32.3

can he all adds to the overall AWT water
treatment experience and that’s what I’m

34:32.3

34:36.3

here for I’m not really here for the
money I’m here for the experience and

34:36.3

34:41.0

the good time that I get because I can
provide some help or help others in in

34:41.0

34:45.0

problem solving you mentioned a
certified water technologist designation

34:45.0

34:51.2

has that been recognized when you work
overseas if I explain what it is

34:51.2

34:57.0

and I think that when I do this the
first thing I say is hey guys you need

34:57.0

35:02.4

to actually go and have a look at the
Association of water technologists web

35:02.4

35:07.9

pages see for yourself what it’s about
if you become a member for me one of the

35:07.9

35:12.1

real benefits of being the member is
that you actually get access to the

35:12.1

35:18.1

library of 25 or 26 years worth of of
analyst and all of the technical papers

35:18.1

35:21.5

that’s in there but you can’t get access
to that until you pay your money

35:21.5

35:26.7

now the AWT has become so good the
training has become so good they’ve been

35:26.7

35:32.6

able to put together an examination and
it’s a pretty tough examination and it’s

35:32.6

35:38.6

called the certified water technologist
now what I can tell you is it is a

35:38.6

35:45.1

legally defensible qualification and
that says everything to me in terms of

35:45.1

35:50.8

the quality of the CWG exam if I can
stand before a judge and say you know I

35:50.8

35:55.8

am a CWT and that meant that I had to
have you know a real extensive knowledge

35:55.8

36:00.6

of the business I had to serve a minimum
amount of time I had to demonstrate it I

36:00.6

36:05.4

had to give verification and validation
that was checked up on before I was

36:05.4

36:11.5

awarded a CWT it will tell you it’s a
valuable asset and I’m still not sure

36:11.5

36:16.7

that customers always understand what
it’s about but the fact that it’s

36:16.7

36:21.1

legally defensible and it’s from an
organization where the webpages are

36:21.1

36:27.4

really pretty good and the analysts and
the articles are superb is great well

36:27.4

36:31.8

Colin you’ve corrected me several times
on my pronunciation of certain words on

36:31.8

36:36.2

a story you say laboratory at exactly
where I was going is really a laboratory

36:36.2

36:40.4

of course you know and and the fact that
you take the eye out of aluminium well I

36:40.4

36:44.2

can’t stand that but and I’m trying to
think of some other words maybe schedule

36:44.2

36:49.8

more scheduled you know this is fine but
the thing about American English is that

36:49.8

36:54.1

you want to kind of make the words as
concise as possible is if you actually

36:54.1

36:57.9

don’t want to write them on the paper or
in a hurry we have to dyno yeah

36:57.9

37:02.5

naari I know I know no spot is fine well
Carlin I do a segment on this show

37:02.5

37:06.7

called the boiling point I haven’t done
it in a while but things that I see

37:06.7

37:12.1

other water treaters do that they just
shouldn’t be doing they’re either not

37:12.1

37:16.3

learning from their mistakes and they’re
continuing to repeat those or they’re

37:16.3

37:21.7

giving the rest of us a bad name so you
have an open mic what do you see

37:21.7

37:27.7

other water treaters do that you just
wish they would stop doing okay I get

37:27.7

37:33.2

involved in lawsuits I become an expert
witness in lawsuits and in fact I’ve got

37:33.2

37:38.1

one in a couple of days is it a couple
of days no it’s next week I’ve got a

37:38.1

37:43.4

I’ve got to to go and be an expert
witness at something that’s more than 40

37:43.4

37:47.6

million-dollar lawsuit and if you’ve if
you’ve ever been involved in anything

37:47.6

37:51.9

like this where the law profession gets
involved the first thing is anything

37:51.9

37:57.2

goes wrong it’s the water treaters fault
and there’s been some really excellent

37:57.2

38:02.0

articles about this
Bob Cunningham has written one and there

38:02.0

38:05.8

is a law firm that’s joined AWT and
they’ve been producing a couple of

38:05.8

38:11.9

really good documents and one of the
things they say is document everything

38:11.9

38:17.8

you do and I would say that when I get
involved in lawsuits and the lawyer

38:17.8

38:24.7

hands me boxes and boxes of documents of
original contracts of service reports of

38:24.7

38:29.8

literature that’s that’s that’s been
invoked the thing that I see more than

38:29.8

38:36.1

anything is the water treatment guy on
the job does not put enough information

38:36.1

38:41.8

down to protect himself if you see
something wrong make a note of it don’t

38:41.8

38:47.8

just advise the operator put it down
send it as an email so it’s documented

38:47.8

38:53.0

because when something goes wrong
they’re all going to look at the easiest

38:53.0

38:57.6

way to get money which is often the
water treater why because nobody

38:57.6

39:00.9

understands what water treatment is
about except the water treatment company

39:00.9

39:06.7

and so if you actually document stuff if
you have regular review meetings and you

39:06.7

39:10.3

bring all of things up and that gets
documented in some

39:10.3

39:15.7

some minutes if ever there is a big
problem and a lawsuit and I’ve got to

39:15.7

39:20.3

look at all of these documents I’ve got
something that can demonstrate that the

39:20.3

39:25.7

water treatment company is not at fault
something that I see on service reports

39:25.7

39:32.5

that I absolutely hate is everything
looks good know that you cannot do that

39:32.5

39:39.7

and quite frankly if everything looks
good your job is to explore a bit wider

39:39.7

39:44.4

and maybe look at something that’s not
necessarily directly within your own

39:44.4

39:49.1

province if you can find other things
and help to find ways to solve those

39:49.1

39:55.1

then the chances are that you’re going
to keep the job longer make it more

39:55.1

40:00.7

profitable but when you keep writing a
service report that says everything is

40:00.7

40:07.7

ok the client begins to think why do I
need you why am i spending money if

40:07.7

40:14.5

everything is okay so make sure
everything is not okay make sure that

40:14.5

40:19.4

you’ve explored other areas other venues
other parts of the business and you

40:19.4

40:26.8

become a valuable resource to your
client one nation colin is such a great

40:26.8

40:31.8

guest he’s got so much to share we are
not going to be able to do it all in

40:31.8

40:39.5

just one episode so please join me back
next week for the conclusion of my

40:39.5

40:46.5

interview with Colin frame talk to you
next week folks

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