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0:08.0
0:12.6
welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast for
water treaters by water treaters where
0:12.6
0:16.5
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems
0:16.5
0:22.3
hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore
here host of Scaling UP! h2o and folks
0:22.3
0:28.6
how cool was it last week when friend of
show Colin Frayne stopped by for an
0:28.6
0:34.0
interview well we’re gonna pick up right
where we left off so if you will please
0:34.0
0:41.3
join me for part two of my interview
with Colin frame CWT Colin you and I
0:41.3
0:47.8
were on a panel at the last AWT
conference where you were speaking on
0:47.8
0:52.1
trends in the industry what we can
expect of the water treatment of
0:52.1
0:57.4
tomorrow what are some of those trends
what are companies moving towards what
0:57.4
1:01.5
can the water treater expect from the
water treatment industry well I think
1:01.5
1:06.3
the first thing I’m gonna say is that
I’m an old-fashioned guy and I’m not
1:06.3
1:10.5
sure I necessarily take to every bit of
new IT technology that’s out there but
1:10.5
1:15.3
the truth is the IT technology is taking
over the world so there’s part of it we
1:15.3
1:21.8
know that many of the younger folks
coming up want to find a quick path to
1:21.8
1:27.7
becoming a well-paid manager in some
business whether that lasts or not I
1:27.7
1:33.3
don’t know but it is difficult sometimes
to find enough good service people that
1:33.3
1:38.9
can join the industry but equally the
most of the customers that we go and see
1:38.9
1:43.0
if trying to find ways to automate their
business and cut out facilities and
1:43.0
1:47.2
utilities people and therefore the
demands that the job gets bigger as the
1:47.2
1:51.6
supply of people that could possibly
handle it become become less so it’s an
1:51.6
1:55.6
intractable thing so so where are we
going I think that we’re going the
1:55.6
2:01.5
direction of more and more automation
we’re coming with more and more early
2:01.5
2:08.6
warning signals we’re coming with I
think the greater use of monitors of
2:08.6
2:14.4
some sort such as biofilm monitors and
not just corrosion coupons but
2:14.4
2:19.5
polarization resistance monitors we’re
looking more obviously many many people
2:19.5
2:23.3
now are using
fluorescent technology as a mechanism
2:23.3
2:28.8
everybody seems to have the ability to
have results directed to their cell
2:28.8
2:33.2
phone I’ll tell you that I’ve still not
managed to learn how to do that but it’s
2:33.2
2:39.1
something so I think that that more and
more IT independent monitoring more
2:39.1
2:42.6
short-termism
is on the cards and that means that the
2:42.6
2:47.0
younger people definitely have the
ability to do that whereas this older
2:47.0
2:51.0
guys think too much about it and don’t
do it so I think that’s that’s one
2:51.0
2:57.0
important thing that there is less and
less people newer people that see this
2:57.0
3:03.5
as a valuable way to get into a good job
but it is and so maybe we’ve got to do
3:03.5
3:07.8
more in the terms of advertising and
marketing to attract people maybe the aw
3:07.8
3:11.7
T’s got to get involved with some junior
people maybe we’ve got to have some sort
3:11.7
3:16.0
of apprenticeships or something like
that but there will be a reduced number
3:16.0
3:19.9
of people in the industry perhaps
compared with when I started half a
3:19.9
3:25.4
century ago but that means that the
people that are in in it have to be
3:25.4
3:31.5
better trained better prepared more
experienced eyes wide open willing to do
3:31.5
3:37.3
a wider range of things so we want good
students that can be much more adaptable
3:37.3
3:42.5
perhaps than than when we had the the
the big six water treatment companies
3:42.5
3:47.3
3040 years ago it’s a different world
that we’re in it’s a faster pace world
3:47.3
3:52.0
we’ve got to become more involved with
monitoring and short-termism and and
3:52.0
3:55.6
stuff like that I’m not sure if that’s
what you wanted to hear from me but
3:55.6
4:00.3
that’s where I I see the market going
now that’s great information you can’t
4:00.3
4:03.5
have two water treaters in the room
without one of them talking about
4:03.5
4:08.7
somebody buying somebody else
Oh Emma neighs yeah Emma nazar although
4:08.7
4:12.8
it’s always been with us maybe we’ve not
been quite so aware of it but mergers
4:12.8
4:16.0
and acquisitions have always been part
of the business and if you build a good
4:16.0
4:21.0
business then either you can hand it on
to the family or it can be part of a
4:21.0
4:26.9
private equity group or it could be sold
to a decent bigger company and you can
4:26.9
4:32.1
see that your own heritage continues to
develop so yes so there’s another part
4:32.1
4:35.3
of the industry
and that brings me I cept I suppose on
4:35.3
4:39.7
to something else in the everything that
we’ve really been discussing so far has
4:39.7
4:44.3
been about the technology of the
business but actually the businesses the
4:44.3
4:49.4
business is the business you can’t
really grow a business if you work in it
4:49.4
4:54.0
you’ve got to work on a business and so
I would say that for all of the younger
4:54.0
4:58.6
folks out there it’s not just learning
technology it’s learning the
4:58.6
5:03.2
fundamentals of business when I started
at 16 I didn’t even know how to open a
5:03.2
5:10.1
bank account these days you’ve got to be
much much more astute and you recall
5:10.1
5:15.8
that a while ago I said that ultimately
most employees are really cash
5:15.8
5:20.8
generators and if they cannot generate
cash then what’s the reason for hiring
5:20.8
5:28.5
them so as well as conducting your own
studies on all matters technical I would
5:28.5
5:33.9
also advocate that you begin to look at
some of the business elements as well
5:33.9
5:38.6
what does it take to run a business and
how can you read a balance sheet how can
5:38.6
5:44.2
you read a P&L account how can you read
a cash flow statement look at some
5:44.2
5:48.3
annual returns from some of the big
corporations look at the the big
5:48.3
5:53.8
corporations in our industry that are
publicly owned they all have to do
5:53.8
5:58.6
annual reports I read those annual
reports I download them you know there
5:58.6
6:03.0
might be 75 80 pages someone knows 100
pages and you don’t need to read it all
6:03.0
6:06.9
but there’s always some really
interesting things about the trends or
6:06.9
6:11.9
the markets sectors that they’re in or
the way that they’ve decided to from a
6:11.9
6:17.6
strategic position to develop their
business and go after a a certain market
6:17.6
6:22.8
sector they’re really worth looking at
and if you can come for an interview and
6:22.8
6:26.6
you not only have a decent technical
background but you have some decent
6:26.6
6:32.5
business background then the world
becomes more of your oyster you’ve been
6:32.5
6:36.9
involved in several companies either
merging or acquiring another company
6:36.9
6:42.4
when you’re working at that level what
are a few of the key metrics that you
6:42.4
6:45.5
always look at to see how that company’s
doing
6:45.5
6:49.1
while we’re obviously looking at
profitability and cash flow and doers
6:49.1
6:53.3
want to see what the balance sheet is
like but it’s more than that it’s how
6:53.3
6:58.7
does this company differentiate itself
what’s its true worth is this true worth
6:58.7
7:03.7
because of a technology that it has
because of patents because of the people
7:03.7
7:07.6
that it has because of the market
sectors that is decided to go in how
7:07.6
7:13.7
does it differentiate itself what will
it be like in 3 4 5 years time does that
7:13.7
7:19.2
well that differentiation continue if
you see that they haven’t really changed
7:19.2
7:23.4
the marketplace in the last 10 years
well why would they change even if they
7:23.4
7:27.3
sell the business or they merged with
somebody else so you’ve got to look at
7:27.3
7:32.3
more than just the finance and
ultimately it’s it’s really it really
7:32.3
7:37.7
does come down to the people that’s
involved how motivated are they what
7:37.7
7:41.7
kinds of market sectors do they
understand the basics of business do
7:41.7
7:45.7
they try to go for the bigger jobs that
bring more money in but a technically
7:45.7
7:51.8
more challenging but if you can solve
the problem and provide the solution the
7:51.8
7:55.3
money comes in and then the whole
business becomes much more valuable so
7:55.3
8:00.7
yeah so it’s it’s market differentiation
how well-known are they first thing
8:00.7
8:04.2
what’s the website like because the you
know generally when I get involved in
8:04.2
8:10.5
some sort of merger and acquisition or
even just providing an overview or a
8:10.5
8:14.7
review of a company which I do
periodically the first thing I do is
8:14.7
8:19.1
look at the web pages if the web page
turns you off then there’s no reason to
8:19.1
8:23.9
go back to there and that that rightly
or wrongly gives an impression of what
8:23.9
8:29.9
the company is about and so I would say
if you want to be a really great company
8:29.9
8:34.8
with great products great services great
people and market differentiation make
8:34.8
8:39.0
sure you also have a pretty good web
page that demonstrates that because
8:39.0
8:43.0
that’s the first thing that you’re gonna
go you’re gonna go to the other thing is
8:43.0
8:46.5
that you’re going to start looking at
other other things you know someone
8:46.5
8:49.3
comes on the phone to me and they work
for a company and I don’t know the
8:49.3
8:52.7
company then I’m gonna just go straight
on the internet and check them out I
8:52.7
8:55.8
want to see if I go to LinkedIn or
Facebook
8:55.8
8:59.0
not so much Facebook because I’m an old
guy but but
8:59.0
9:02.9
you do and more and more I see companies
have their own Facebook page and they’re
9:02.9
9:07.3
quite interesting because they tell you
the latest people to join the latest
9:07.3
9:10.8
trends that they’ve done the latest big
order that they bought in and all of
9:10.8
9:16.2
those begin to add to your knowledge of
the company then you cannot seriously
9:16.2
9:22.3
think about potentially acquiring that
business or selling that business or
9:22.3
9:28.9
merging that business or using it as a
base for growth in a particular market
9:28.9
9:33.1
sector unless you feel happy and
comfortable about what it is and where
9:33.1
9:38.0
it’s going and what you think it’s worth
and so you know there are lots and lots
9:38.0
9:41.7
of really smart guys out there and
they’re going to be doing the same as me
9:41.7
9:45.3
they’re going to be looking at the
web page at the Facebook the internet
9:45.3
9:49.1
Bloomberg is another good one to go to
you look at Bloomberg and look at the
9:49.1
9:51.8
company up and it’ll tell you the
directors are how long they’ve been
9:51.8
9:56.2
there and what they think this business
is like and you begin to put all of
9:56.2
10:00.1
those together and you get a much better
feel about whether this is a company
10:00.1
10:04.8
that you want to be associated with or
not but the single biggest thing half of
10:04.8
10:10.3
the web pages suck and they need some
significant improvements and we all like
10:10.3
10:14.5
to think that we’re good at doing this
stuff but there actually are experts
10:14.5
10:17.1
that can put these things together for
you
10:17.1
10:23.9
much much better I think I do like to
see on on web pages of water treatment
10:23.9
10:28.8
companies is some of the big projects
that they’ve tackled and how they went
10:28.8
10:33.3
to solve them you know so case histories
but more than the one-page standard case
10:33.3
10:37.0
history actually some photographs of of
what it was like before and what it was
10:37.0
10:40.6
like after and the name of the person or
persons that were involved in doing it
10:40.6
10:46.1
because that helps to bring value but
helps me to be have a a warm of feeling
10:46.1
10:50.8
about the company and think yeah this is
a good company I should get to know this
10:50.8
10:55.2
company more I should get to know these
people I’m gonna find a way to meet them
10:55.2
11:00.0
at a AWT convention and stuff like that
and I’ll tell you what I do because I
11:00.0
11:04.3
get involved a lot in international
stuff and I’m flying around you know
11:04.3
11:08.5
maybe a flight in London and then I’m
gonna fly to Belgium or something Oh
11:08.5
11:14.1
phone people up that I don’t know
but I like their company from what I’ve
11:14.1
11:21.0
seen our phone a guy up and say sir you
know you’re the CEO of an RO company in
11:21.0
11:26.5
Holland can I come and see you and have
a cup of coffee in a chat and everybody
11:26.5
11:32.6
says yes nobody ever says no you can’t
and it’s amazing that you get to see
11:32.6
11:36.4
what other people do and they’re very
proud and they will show you around and
11:36.4
11:42.1
then all of a sudden there’s an
opportunity to pay it back by by giving
11:42.1
11:47.9
them a lead or you get a lead and all of
a sudden the network increases this
11:47.9
11:53.0
world is a really small world and
everybody gets to know everybody else in
11:53.0
11:56.8
this business so if you want to be in
this business you’ve got to be a player
11:56.8
12:02.3
and that means developing your skills
technically financially networking with
12:02.3
12:05.6
people and all the rest of it and there
is I think there’s actually no other
12:05.6
12:11.1
better networking system than to start
with the AWT you’re travelling working
12:11.1
12:15.0
with your consulting customers I know
there are a lot of people out there
12:15.0
12:20.3
including myself about how you find
these customers and what you do when you
12:20.3
12:24.5
actually get there how do you find out
what their problems are how do you know
12:24.5
12:28.8
that you’re tackling the right problem
and then what’s your process to make
12:28.8
12:32.2
sure they solve it okay so let’s get
this straight
12:32.2
12:38.0
yes I run a little consulting business
and most of the time I’m on my own but I
12:38.0
12:41.3
know other consultants in the business
and if there’s a bigger project or a
12:41.3
12:45.7
different project or I need some special
skills then I will I will engage
12:45.7
12:52.1
somebody else so literally I had a phone
call an hour long when I was in San
12:52.1
12:58.9
Diego with a company in India and they
want some EPA registrations for some
12:58.9
13:02.6
products apart from other things so I
instantly found a friend of mine whose
13:02.6
13:07.2
ex EPA employee and together we can have
a like a joint venture and we’re gonna
13:07.2
13:12.4
deal with this project when I do M&A s
then I have another friend who really is
13:12.4
13:16.6
great at helping me and to eyes always
better than one so so that works very
13:16.6
13:21.5
well but the next thing is I actually
don’t go out to go and try and find
13:21.5
13:25.6
customers and I know knock on any doors
with the idea of having
13:25.6
13:30.2
enticing them to be a customer I’m very
happy to knock on their door and buy
13:30.2
13:36.5
them lunch or get a cup of coffee or my
last call where the Pakistan Technical
13:36.5
13:41.8
Manager of a laboratory wanted to talk
to me about cricket and how great
13:41.8
13:46.6
Pakistan was and how poor England had
become and feed me with a large piece of
13:46.6
13:50.3
cake at the same time so we had a really
good meet and and I had no a fixed
13:50.3
13:54.1
appointment I just knocked on his door
and he was really happy to see me I go
13:54.1
14:00.1
out to meet these people for my own
gratification my own enjoyment learning
14:00.1
14:04.6
what else is out there but what happens
is you begin to network with these
14:04.6
14:09.4
people all of the jobs that I get in
whether they’re a little tiny job or a
14:09.4
14:16.5
pretty big job a single visit or a multi
year visit it starts with somebody
14:16.5
14:24.0
emailing me or phoning me and say you
were recommended by X can you help me
14:24.0
14:31.6
and what I find is that in general price
is not the object you don’t really have
14:31.6
14:35.3
to bid in fact I don’t think anybody
really wants to hire a cheap consultant
14:35.3
14:39.3
so the prices can become good but more
often that it’s what’s the value that
14:39.3
14:44.2
you’re delivering and because you’ve had
a recommendation you have a start over
14:44.2
14:50.2
everybody else and so you know if I can
do a visit for nothing to start with
14:50.2
14:55.6
then I will do that I will always give
some advice I will always recommend some
14:55.6
15:00.4
information I will or nearly always give
some technical papers and not all just
15:00.4
15:05.1
by me by some of the other respected
people in the business just to help them
15:05.1
15:10.0
understand their problem and what I
really want to know is what’s the scale
15:10.0
15:15.6
of your problem how big is your problem
how much is it costing you how keen are
15:15.6
15:19.5
you to get this fixed
and if they become keen and they want
15:19.5
15:24.5
some they want they want a solution to
the problem generally they say well
15:24.5
15:29.1
where do we go from here Colin well
where we go from here is you send me
15:29.1
15:32.6
some money
and so they will wire transfer some
15:32.6
15:37.3
money and how could you not as soon as I
get the money the first thing I do is
15:37.3
15:41.0
I’d buy a ticket and I get on
plain and go and see them to find out
15:41.0
15:45.9
what the real problem is how big is the
problem how is going to be solved
15:45.9
15:49.3
what’s the politics and there’s always
politics that’s involved in there and
15:49.3
15:54.0
then the fact that I actually turn up on
the doorstep and and I’ve got a hard hat
15:54.0
15:58.2
on and boots and stuff like that gives
the customer the confidence that I’m
15:58.2
16:02.8
going to be able to help them now that
doesn’t mean to say that I go in with a
16:02.8
16:07.0
magic wand and I already know what the
real solution is going to be I actually
16:07.0
16:12.2
go in and usually for the first half an
hour I are stupid Christians and I’m
16:12.2
16:17.0
sure that sometimes the customer must
look at me and think why did he ask that
16:17.0
16:21.6
and it’s because everything is
site-specific and I don’t really
16:21.6
16:27.4
understand what’s going on and so it
takes me half an hour before I really
16:27.4
16:31.1
understand what is going on and what the
politics are and what’s possible and
16:31.1
16:37.3
what’s not possible and then I can start
giving some direction as to where we can
16:37.3
16:41.5
go from here and how long it will take
and what are the steps that’s involved
16:41.5
16:46.3
and what the likely costs are going to
be on both sides and then we begin to
16:46.3
16:50.5
get together an agreement that can come
and we can both sign and then we’re
16:50.5
16:53.7
happy and we know what’s going to be
done but just because you’re a smart
16:53.7
16:57.6
consult have been in the business
forever doesn’t mean to say that you
16:57.6
17:01.2
know everything and certainly not
turning up on site for the first time
17:01.2
17:03.8
with a magic wand and you can fix
everything you can
17:03.8
17:08.1
you’ve got to investigate you have to be
a good water doctor you’ve got to be
17:08.1
17:13.0
able to ask questions until you can
eventually come up with a diagnosis that
17:13.0
17:16.8
looks pretty sound and if you can
diagnose it then the solutions become
17:16.8
17:21.5
much easier and there’s always going to
be more than one solution so the more
17:21.5
17:25.7
you can learn the more you can learn
from others the more you can network the
17:25.7
17:29.3
better you’re going to be and the more
you’re going to enjoy the job which was
17:29.3
17:34.0
where we came in half an hour ago Colin
do you mind giving the Scaling UP! nation
17:34.0
17:37.9
an example of what you’re talking about
okay so I can give you one or two
17:37.9
17:44.5
examples so Jimmy but Bob Kevon oh I do
remember Bob cavanna Scranton a really
17:44.5
17:49.5
really great guy and I used to really
admire the technical papers that he
17:49.5
17:52.6
wrote and sometimes he stirred it out
but it was good
17:52.6
17:57.3
and and and so here I here am i yeah I’m
telling you I’m a pretty smart water
17:57.3
18:01.4
treatment consultant but I learn all the
time I don’t know everything
18:01.4
18:06.6
and I read every single thing that Bob
qivana ever did and we became quite
18:06.6
18:11.8
quite good friends and I remember once
when I was still living in Florida to
18:11.8
18:14.7
reef owns me up and he says I’m outside
your door and I want to take you to
18:14.7
18:17.1
lunch
and we had a great lunch that lasted a
18:17.1
18:20.1
couple of hours I cannot remember
anything about what we had but it was
18:20.1
18:24.8
all to do with with with the technology
but coming back to this to the story so
18:24.8
18:33.0
one day I get a an email and it’s from
Argentina and it’s a government-owned
18:33.0
18:37.9
company that makes nuclear fuel heavy
water and they wrote to me and they said
18:37.9
18:43.3
Bob qivana says you’re the guy to go to
to help us and I’m thinking how on earth
18:43.3
18:50.9
did they know about Bob Cabana and it
turned out that this particular facility
18:50.9
18:56.1
is one of only a few plants in the world
that makes heavy water and it was
18:56.1
19:02.2
actually a Swiss design plant that was
installed in the middle of Patagonia in
19:02.2
19:09.5
in Argentina and and it took snowmelt
from the Andes Mountains and some passed
19:09.5
19:14.6
it through the world’s largest demon
plant to produce ultra pure water and
19:14.6
19:19.7
then used ammonia to extract or rather
the ammonium ion to extract the
19:19.7
19:26.6
deuterium and tritium to make heavy
water but everything was fouled up and
19:26.6
19:31.1
the heat exchangers didn’t work and they
were I think maybe 300 heat exchangers
19:31.1
19:36.3
and the cooling tower was so large they
actually gave me a bicycle to to cycle
19:36.3
19:41.7
round and they wanted me to come out
there to help them solve their problems
19:41.7
19:46.9
of the intense fouling in the heat
exchanges the corrosion in heat
19:46.9
19:52.5
exchangers the fouled up cooling systems
the lack of ability to manufacture heavy
19:52.5
19:58.9
water which was something like sixty or
seventy thousand dollars a barrel
19:58.9
20:04.9
you know 210 liters stainless steel
barrel and so I spoke to Bob Kevon Oh
20:04.9
20:10.0
up in Ohio and we chatted and he said
well they found me on the internet and
20:10.0
20:14.6
then they read some of my technical
papers and thought that this is the guy
20:14.6
20:20.5
to speak to and they were using a major
water treatment company one of the big
20:20.5
20:25.8
international firms but as you know it’s
all dependent on how good is the local
20:25.8
20:30.1
guy and if the local guy isn’t really
very good then things don’t get fixed
20:30.1
20:35.1
and that’s how it was and Bob had helped
them as much as he could from his office
20:35.1
20:41.2
but then said look at the end of the day
I’m not the guy to help you from a
20:41.2
20:47.7
practical aspect in terms of solving
problems on site I can tell you all the
20:47.7
20:51.5
theory of the chemistry’s and which
chemistry’s to use but you need a guy
20:51.5
20:56.5
that is you know can get his hands dirty
on site you need to speak to college so
20:56.5
21:02.8
they phoned me and said please come over
and I have to tell you is absolutely
21:02.8
21:08.8
fantastic because I flew over to Buenos
Aires I got picked up and before I got
21:08.8
21:14.0
on my domestic plane we had several
hours so I went round
21:14.0
21:20.3
they showed me tango dancing in Buenos
Aires I had this superb lunch I toured
21:20.3
21:24.9
the Japanese gardens in Buenos Aires and
the Pink Palace and stuff like that and
21:24.9
21:30.8
then I got on a plane and went to to new
came in Argentina and looked at this
21:30.8
21:35.3
plant then we spent several days going
through all of the things that needed to
21:35.3
21:39.4
be done and putting together a plan now
I’ll tell you that the plan took two
21:39.4
21:43.8
years to fix this wasn’t something you
could fix over overnight so you know all
21:43.8
21:47.6
of the the 300 heat exchanges were non
team and manufactured so they didn’t
21:47.6
21:51.9
meet American specifications for heat
exchanges and they’ll begin to fail flow
21:51.9
21:57.2
rates were less than one foot a second
in them and so they were fouling the
21:57.2
22:02.9
chemistry that they had didn’t work the
cooling system used to have maybe 150
22:02.9
22:07.8
ppm of ammonia present in it and a lot
of that spilt out and went into the
22:07.8
22:11.1
river so we had to find ways to deal
with that so we had to modify the
22:11.1
22:15.0
wastewater treatment plant we had to
clean out the cooling system and they
22:15.0
22:17.7
really didn’t believe me when I told
them
22:17.7
22:23.5
that we were going to put half a ton of
dispersant bio dispersant in there I
22:23.5
22:27.7
know it was and we had then had to find
a way to stop six feet of foam in a
22:27.7
22:32.2
cooling tower that was hundreds of yards
long but finally they believed what I
22:32.2
22:39.3
said and we did it and we extracted more
than 20 tons 20,000 kilos of bio slime
22:39.3
22:43.8
from the cooling tower so so this is a
backhoe that we’ve got inside a cooling
22:43.8
22:48.5
tower to be able to deal with that and
then the 300 peat exchanges we had to
22:48.5
22:52.8
repair them or get new ones and we can’t
bring them all online at the same time
22:52.8
22:58.4
it took two years so I actually went to
a really superb company that makes vapor
22:58.4
23:02.8
phase corrosion inhibitors you know
those guys up in White Bear Parkway
23:02.8
23:10.1
Minnesota and and we bought a not a
pallet we bought a truckload of VPC eyes
23:10.1
23:14.7
so that every time we finished a heat
exchanger we could put a vp CI in it and
23:14.7
23:19.2
we could leave it for another year or 18
months until they all came together so
23:19.2
23:24.2
it was a two-year project and it was a
multi visit project which culminated
23:24.2
23:28.6
actually my wife also coming to Buenos
Aires and going tango dancing there
23:28.6
23:32.6
because she was fine so it was a great
occasion of mixing business with some
23:32.6
23:37.1
pleasure so that was the two-year
project but the government was under the
23:37.1
23:41.8
gun because he had to deliver under
contracts to tannic Canada and India and
23:41.8
23:47.1
it couldn’t be until someone came and
gave some direction as to how to solve
23:47.1
23:51.7
the problem how to create new
formulations that would deal with that
23:51.7
23:54.6
and there was a whole bunch of things
but it was a it was a really good
23:54.6
24:00.0
exercise so Colin it’s funny you
mentioned Bob Pavano when I started
24:00.0
24:05.7
Blackmore Enterprises 2004 my first
convention with AWT was in Palm Springs
24:05.7
24:09.9
and I was just getting involved with AWT
I didn’t know a lot about the
24:09.9
24:14.4
Association so I went over there by
myself and I believe I had to make a
24:14.4
24:19.8
connecting flight over in Phoenix so we
got on a big plane here in Atlanta went
24:19.8
24:24.2
to Phoenix then got on a little teeny
plane and Phoenix don’t go over to Palm
24:24.2
24:29.6
Springs well i sat next to a gentleman
had no idea who he was
24:29.6
24:32.6
and he asked me where were you going to
and I told him I was going to the
24:32.6
24:36.4
association of Water Technologies
convention and he said me too that was
24:36.4
24:42.3
Bob Kevon oh we had a 45-minute plane
ride it was the most fascinating
24:42.3
24:46.5
conversation I ever had
I always cannot wait to get off of an
24:46.5
24:50.4
airplane I was hoping that that plane
was five hours longer than it actually
24:50.4
24:56.5
was and that was one of the reasons that
I started this show had I recorded that
24:56.5
25:00.6
conversation I think so many people
could have gotten benefit out of it so
25:00.6
25:06.3
and unfortunately now I can’t interview
Bob Pavano so I wanted to make sure that
25:06.3
25:12.0
more people in the water treatment
community could have access to all these
25:12.0
25:16.5
water treatment Jedi that we have out
there because things that you know
25:16.5
25:20.7
things I think we mentioned Bruce
Catterick already all these guys you
25:20.7
25:24.4
have have made mistakes that I can learn
from that other people can learn from
25:24.4
25:31.2
and everybody’s fine was sharing them so
indirectly Bob Cabana was responsible
25:31.2
25:37.4
for this podcast with this consulting
work you don’t always win you know so as
25:37.4
25:42.6
an example I’d worked in I’d work I’ve
worked in most of the Caribbean islands
25:42.6
25:49.1
and in fact at one stage I actually had
some some factories and warehouses and
25:49.1
25:58.3
so on in the Caribbean so the Bahamas
and Guyana and Suriname and Guatemala
25:58.3
26:08.4
and Honduras and Belize and Trinidad
Barbados all of those places I’ve worked
26:08.4
26:13.3
him so I remember I get this call from
people I’ve worked with before in
26:13.3
26:19.4
Trinidad and so I go over to Trinidad
and it’s actually longer than you think
26:19.4
26:24.7
because it’s right at the bottom end of
the Caribbean so I go to Trinidad and
26:24.7
26:28.9
and I’m working on a number of different
things and a lot of it is
26:28.9
26:33.5
business-related how to grow their
company how to improve their marketing
26:33.5
26:40.9
and distribution of products and
services throughout the the Western and
26:40.9
26:45.3
southern part of the Caribbean and then
we’re doing some lectures and programs
26:45.3
26:49.7
like that looking at chemistry and
formulations and whole bunch of whole
26:49.7
26:54.2
bunch of things and this is done on a
fixed price you know this is how much I
26:54.2
26:59.9
would charge you per day you pay that
amount of dollars each day and pay for
26:59.9
27:04.5
the airplane and then you pay for the
the hotel and so that’s what they do now
27:04.5
27:09.9
when I’m there my time is your time
anything you want anything any it
27:09.9
27:13.4
doesn’t have to be in a spec anything
you want this what we’ll discuss and so
27:13.4
27:17.2
we did all of this and then when it was
all finished they said oh you’ve still
27:17.2
27:20.8
got some time before your plane goes
Colin could you kind of do some
27:20.8
27:25.4
consulting for us sure okay right well
we’re going to go over to the island
27:25.4
27:29.1
where there’s an oil refinery and we’re
going to look at a company a private
27:29.1
27:36.3
company that has agreed to take their
oily wastewater and to clean it all up
27:36.3
27:40.8
and then resell it to them as make up
for boiler plant for high pressure steam
27:40.8
27:48.1
boiler plant and so we would like you to
kind of be us and and go and consult and
27:48.1
27:53.1
show them what they’re doing wrong
so we go over to see this facility and
27:53.1
27:57.8
that’s what they’ve got they have water
coming in which is oily waste water and
27:57.8
28:03.6
then they have a series of processes
designed to clean up that water such
28:03.6
28:07.7
that when it emerges from a reverse
osmosis plant it can be sold back to
28:07.7
28:13.7
them as high quality feed so I went on a
quick tour and probably after 20 minutes
28:13.7
28:18.2
I could see all the individual
components that they had got which was
28:18.2
28:22.7
like a coalesce or two to remove the oil
and then they had a biological treatment
28:22.7
28:26.0
plant and then they had a tower to
actually cooed the water down so
28:26.0
28:31.8
mesophilic and work on activated sludge
and destroy that and then they had a
28:31.8
28:36.6
some cartridge filters and then a
reverse osmosis plant and none of it
28:36.6
28:41.1
worked
it was absolutely all full of oil and
28:41.1
28:45.6
the engineer in charge knew everything
and really didn’t want to listen to me
28:45.6
28:48.7
because he’d already decided what the
problems were but you look at it you
28:48.7
28:52.2
think this is absolutely utter
devastation and it was quite clear that
28:52.2
28:55.5
from a business perspective they
were likely to be sued because they
28:55.5
29:01.0
weren’t able to supply the right quality
of water so I went round and said okay
29:01.0
29:06.3
so let’s have a look you have an oily
waste water separator that isn’t working
29:06.3
29:11.7
you have all of your reservoirs fouled
with oil you have a biological fixed
29:11.7
29:17.8
film bioreactor it’s full of oil you
have a cooling tower that you can’t use
29:17.8
29:21.9
anymore it’s full of oil you have a
reverse osmosis plant you have a sand
29:21.9
29:24.8
field that doesn’t work and in fact
actually that was the laughs because it
29:24.8
29:30.5
was a Chinese a massive Chinese sand
filter but the grains of sand were rocks
29:30.5
29:34.8
they weren’t sand it was walks it was
never going to filter anything at all
29:34.8
29:39.1
and then they had the reverse osmosis
membranes and I’m looking at the totally
29:39.1
29:44.0
fouled membranes that’s absolutely
screwed and so I I said okay well would
29:44.0
29:49.5
you like me to tell you what I think we
should do and it was no we know what to
29:49.5
29:53.9
do and what we’re now going to do is
spend two million dollars and put
29:53.9
29:59.2
another piece of equipment before the
reverse osmosis and this is going to be
29:59.2
30:05.9
a variable film micro filter and this
kind of equipment looks like a regular
30:05.9
30:12.1
ultra filtration plant or vertical
pressure vessels but inside it’s a bit
30:12.1
30:18.8
like a bag filter but it’s the bag is
made of a membrane and what happens is
30:18.8
30:23.0
the higher the pressure that you push
the water through this stretches and
30:23.0
30:27.0
actually the pores become smaller and
smaller and you can get it from ten
30:27.0
30:31.6
micron going down to perhaps a one
micron filtration rate depending upon
30:31.6
30:37.4
how you stretch it now you pressurize it
and I thought to myself why are you
30:37.4
30:41.9
wasting two million dollars on a piece
of equipment there’s also going to get
30:41.9
30:46.6
fouled where for one tenth of that price
you can go back to the very beginning
30:46.6
30:52.3
and you can improve your oil removal
which was the the source of the problem
30:52.3
30:58.1
the real problem was they had signed a
contract to take so many gallons a day
30:58.1
31:03.1
and produce so many gallons a day or
cubic meters really without specifying
31:03.1
31:07.4
what the minimum a maximum water quality
was that they were going to be
31:07.4
31:12.1
to accept and so they signed this in
total blindness expecting the water
31:12.1
31:16.0
quality to be the same all the time and
of course it changed why did it change
31:16.0
31:20.9
because of the variations in production
and the variations includes that they
31:20.9
31:27.3
were being received in the first place
and so any attempt for me to provide
31:27.3
31:32.4
some useful consulting and show them
what the real problem was going to be
31:32.4
31:36.9
and how to solve it was not listening to
at all so I don’t always win there’s a
31:36.9
31:41.7
consultant now I still get paid because
my client pays me X amount but but you
31:41.7
31:46.7
cannot convince everybody that what they
should do is in their own best interest
31:46.7
31:51.2
so the consulting work has its downside
now I can go away and laugh and think
31:51.2
31:54.5
these stupid idiots all they’re ever
gonna do is waste more and more money
31:54.5
32:01.1
but it was just such for me it was a
shame that I did not like to see all
32:01.1
32:06.3
this very nice and very expensive
equipment get totally fouled because
32:06.3
32:09.7
someone signed a contract that was
stupid
32:09.7
32:14.9
someone didn’t put sufficient oil
separation equipment in and then were
32:14.9
32:21.4
too proud to take any advice so not all
my consulting projects ends up as total
32:21.4
32:26.2
total winners you win some and you lose
some for the most part it’s good but it
32:26.2
32:31.1
was it sticks in my mind because it was
so clear what the root cause analysis
32:31.1
32:35.7
was when you do your troubleshooting but
somebody in charge did not want to
32:35.7
32:40.0
listen and it was going to end in a big
lawsuit what’s the funniest thing you’ve
32:40.0
32:44.8
seen in water-treatment funniest thing
all right well I’ve seen lots of funny
32:44.8
32:46.9
things I’ll tell you I’ll tell you
something
32:46.9
32:53.9
so I told you that I started work at 16
now in those days phosphonates had not
32:53.9
32:57.7
been invented for cooling water they
actually had been invented and they were
32:57.7
33:01.3
used as they still are today actually as
a supplement for bones to help
33:01.3
33:05.0
strengthen bones but phosphonates had
not been invented for water treatment I
33:05.0
33:10.6
think all we had was polyacrylate and
polyacrylamide even poly maleic acid
33:10.6
33:16.2
hadn’t really been invented so and I
remember some old boiler plants where
33:16.2
33:20.7
literally I would be using pig’s bladder
you know and
33:20.7
33:26.8
and potato starches and tannins as a
boiler treatment in dark satanic Mills
33:26.8
33:32.2
but but in terms of funniness so i’m
working in this power plant and we have
33:32.2
33:37.0
a number of big cooling systems around
this plan and we were using sulfuric
33:37.0
33:45.1
acid and we were using polyacrylate and
a bit of anti foam as there as our
33:45.1
33:51.4
control and oh and we were also using a
means as well you know the whole you
33:51.4
33:56.2
know we’re all into these polyamines now
what we were using polyamines in those
33:56.2
34:02.3
days so this is like 1964 we were using
poly amines and we had to produce our
34:02.3
34:09.3
own and we used a a mix of poly a means
that became a paste and this pace we put
34:09.3
34:13.8
into floating baskets in the cooling
towers and it was very very slowly
34:13.8
34:19.4
soluble eyes one or two part per million
at most and would eventually film our
34:19.4
34:22.7
cooling towers and give us some
protection of course we didn’t have
34:22.7
34:27.0
galvanized hot dip cooling towers in
those days they were primarily wood but
34:27.0
34:34.1
but that worked anyway so there is a
strike and 60,000 people are out on
34:34.1
34:39.6
strike they want better wages but we’re
in utilities and facilities that we have
34:39.6
34:44.4
to keep working so it suddenly became my
job to go and check all the cooling
34:44.4
34:49.8
towers and make sure that the sulfuric
acid pumps were working and the aiming
34:49.8
34:54.1
feeders were working and we got a bit of
polyacrylate going into the into the
34:54.1
35:02.1
cooling towers so I had a brand new lab
coat of white lab coat and we had like
35:02.1
35:08.9
recently invented nylon shirts and nylon
socks and nylon underwear and nylon lab
35:08.9
35:14.6
coats so I had to go out and inspect
these and the very first cooling system
35:14.6
35:20.5
that I came to was a pretty large
cooling system and and I could see that
35:20.5
35:26.5
the sulfuric acid pump wasn’t working
very well and so okay so I was 17 years
35:26.5
35:32.2
of age and a really experienced engineer
so I thought I knew nothing I started
35:32.2
35:36.0
fiddling with it
all of a sudden the pump starts working
35:36.0
35:41.3
the sulfuric acid 98% sulfuric acid pump
starts working but the hose line breaks
35:41.3
35:50.2
and sulfuric acid came out and spurted
all over me literally all over me and I
35:50.2
35:57.0
had a white lab coat that was made of
nylon within about three seconds he had
35:57.0
35:59.7
disappeared and all I had was black
lapels
35:59.7
36:04.8
and the double stitching where the
buttons were and I had white nylon socks
36:04.8
36:09.3
and all I had was a carbon ring around
my ankles and the only way then to stop
36:09.3
36:13.5
the sulfuric acid from burning me was
physically to jump into the cooling
36:13.5
36:18.0
system so I came out of the cooling
system with a sulfuric acid washed off
36:18.0
36:23.9
me but like 30 percent of my pants gone
all my ankle socks gone and my lab coat
36:23.9
36:30.6
gone I looked an absolutely horrific
site Carlin we have over 10,000 people
36:30.6
36:36.1
listening to this show in over 60
countries what’s the one thing you want
36:36.1
36:43.3
the Scaling UP! nation to get out of this
interview one thing never stop learning
36:43.3
36:50.6
never stop trying to improve yourself
never stop trying to find challenges
36:50.6
36:56.3
because it’s solving challenges that
becomes the most rewarding thing in this
36:56.3
37:00.7
business
great advice Colin I’m almost done with
37:00.7
37:04.6
you but now we have a few lightning
round questions so are you ready for
37:04.6
37:09.0
that let’s hope I know the answers come
on what’s up all right so now you have
37:09.0
37:14.8
the ability to go back in time and visit
yourself on your first day as a water
37:14.8
37:17.1
treat
what advice would you give yourself Oh
37:17.1
37:22.5
first advice gosh I remember those days
when I was 16 and knew absolutely
37:22.5
37:27.9
nothing but had to learn very quickly
what advice would I have given myself
37:27.9
37:33.0
probably dressed smarter well I had no
money I’m not sure I really I can give
37:33.0
37:40.2
you any advice except to say that I was
16 I was put straight into the job there
37:40.2
37:44.9
was really no mentoring at that stage
you had to learn it yourself and there
37:44.9
37:50.8
was no internet nothing
like that it was asked other people to
37:50.8
37:54.3
for help and and I was it was very good
because there were people there that
37:54.3
37:57.6
have been in the business two three four
years knew a lot more than me they would
37:57.6
38:02.6
show me how to short-circuit thing
short-circuit things to get jobs done
38:02.6
38:09.6
and so I would say I would say yes a
valuable thing is asking people for help
38:09.6
38:15.4
because people are always very prepared
to help you and that was his which is
38:15.4
38:19.9
what your exchange forum is I’ll give
you an example I was in that power plant
38:19.9
38:24.0
for over a couple of years and then from
there I moved and I went to a foundry
38:24.0
38:29.8
and I had to work 12 hours a day because
that was the shift and my job was every
38:29.8
38:34.7
time there was going to be a nodular or
gray iron pouring then i had to take a
38:34.7
38:40.5
small in got and then i had to cool it
down section it with a big grinder
38:40.5
38:49.1
polish it and then I had to put it on to
a spectrophotometer and do a it was a
38:49.1
38:53.4
silver electrode that we were using and
find the spectra and from that spectra I
38:53.4
38:58.3
could get a metallurgical analysis and
all of this had to be done within about
38:58.3
39:03.7
a minute and a half because the foundry
floor above us wanted a pour this molten
39:03.7
39:08.6
cast-iron
now the spectrophotometer was the size I
39:08.6
39:12.3
think the room and everything else was
like about half the size of a tennis
39:12.3
39:16.5
court so it wasn’t anything you could
put on a laboratory bench and then
39:16.5
39:20.8
another part of the job once we were
doing that was actually to work on the
39:20.8
39:26.2
bench and we would do wet analyses and I
used to see these guys that have been
39:26.2
39:32.4
doing the job for years technicians and
they could do 50 manganese or 25 sulfurs
39:32.4
39:40.6
or 15 carbon tube analyses or dozen of
this or a dozen and they could sit down
39:40.6
39:45.6
and they could have lunch and they could
have coffee and I never ever could catch
39:45.6
39:49.3
up I could never sit down I could never
get a coffee I could never get a
39:49.3
39:55.3
sandwich until I asked for help then
they would show me a smarter quicker
39:55.3
40:01.2
better way to do the analysis
and get more accuracy and more
40:01.2
40:06.0
reproducibility such that eventually I
could sit down on a lab stool and have a
40:06.0
40:10.7
coffee and a sandwich so that that came
down to asking people and they weren’t
40:10.7
40:16.0
necessarily more educated than me very
often they were technicians but they’ve
40:16.0
40:19.5
been doing the job for 20 years and they
knew their job inside out they were
40:19.5
40:23.3
older people but you had to respect
those people and they would really help
40:23.3
40:27.9
you so that you could do the job better
in this industry that’s what we’ve got
40:27.9
40:30.9
to do we’ve got to rely on mentors of
some sort I think we hadn’t even
40:30.9
40:34.3
invented the word mentors at that time
right but that’s what they were they
40:34.3
40:37.7
were mentors that would help me do my
job better and that’s what we’ve got to
40:37.7
40:44.0
do so yeah first day find a mentor to
help you grow and do your job better
40:44.0
40:48.5
when they make a movie about your life
what actor do they get to play Colin
40:48.5
40:53.7
Frank who is the biggest comedian
because because my my youngest daughter
40:53.7
40:59.3
in New York says to me dad she said how
can it be that a guy as smart as you can
40:59.3
41:03.5
be so stupid all the time with the
things that you do and so yeah they
41:03.5
41:07.1
would need to find a good comedian
because yeah you think this is like the
41:07.1
41:14.0
fistic addict Colin no I’m not alright I
screw up so many times my kids and my
41:14.0
41:17.1
wife and grandchildren we all get
together every single year we have a
41:17.1
41:21.1
vacation together I’m one of the
Caribbean islands the Bahamas Orson
41:21.1
41:25.9
Thomas Addison Jonathan was something
like that and the absolutely love being
41:25.9
41:30.6
together in the kitchen with a large
glass of wine and peeling the vegetables
41:30.6
41:34.6
and saying do you remember the time when
Dad run out of gas on the top of the
41:34.6
41:40.1
mountain do you remember the time when
he got in embedded in a dried-up
41:40.1
41:45.5
riverbed two feet deep with sand and
this goes on and on and on and it’s the
41:45.5
41:50.0
number of stupid things that I’ve done
in my life but it makes for great
41:50.0
41:53.5
entertainment so so the answer is if
they do ever did a film they’d have to
41:53.5
41:59.0
find a good comedian all right so now
you can talk to anybody throughout
41:59.0
42:04.7
history who would it be worth and why I
think there’s lots and lots of people
42:04.7
42:09.2
that I’d like to speak to what I do find
fascinating and it might well start with
42:09.2
42:14.2
somebody like Michelangelo
that was not only a superb painter
42:14.2
42:18.7
artist but mechanically engineering was
great
42:18.7
42:23.8
but what I also from my chemistry
background what I really like is the
42:23.8
42:33.4
mid-1980s at mid 1850s 1868 in 70 when
we all of these people were inventing
42:33.4
42:39.1
rules finding new elements discovering
reactions and stuff like that and
42:39.1
42:45.4
there’s a whole bunch of people probably
from Charles Darwin onwards and you look
42:45.4
42:50.5
at you know the Heisenberg uncertainty
principle well who was Heisenberg I’d
42:50.5
42:54.4
love to be in a lab with Heisenberg and
all the people that were there with him
42:54.4
43:02.1
so yeah I would I would really really
love to talk to the scientists of their
43:02.1
43:10.8
age from Michelangelo on to Darwin on to
the scientists from the 1850s 1860s all
43:10.8
43:15.3
the way up to the modern day and there’s
not one single person but I find a real
43:15.3
43:21.9
fascination in the discovery of of the
discovery of elements the discovery of
43:21.9
43:26.9
their reactions the way that the
reactions can get changed into viable
43:26.9
43:32.2
production processes and the money that
then can then flow from from there
43:32.2
43:38.3
interesting thing Cavendish laboratory
I’ve been to the Cavendish laboratory in
43:38.3
43:44.9
Cambridge at Cambridge University
it’s a nondescript red brick building
43:44.9
43:50.6
that is full of laboratories and
research has been done and it was built
43:50.6
43:56.3
at about 1830 or 1840 something like
that in in Cambridge city in part of
43:56.3
44:03.0
Cambridge University that laboratory
generated 27 Nobel Prize winners Wow
44:03.0
44:07.5
I would have loved to been I never went
to Oxford University of Cambridge
44:07.5
44:12.1
University I would have loved to have
had spent some time in Cavendish
44:12.1
44:17.5
laboratory and be able to see what went
on and see the the the mementos from the
44:17.5
44:21.5
people that were there before and the
things that they had invented that would
44:21.5
44:23.8
be
or discovered that would be fantastic
44:23.8
44:28.5
well Colin I want to thank you for
coming on Scaling UP! h2o this has been
44:28.5
44:32.9
so much fun to interview you I’m sure we
could probably spend another two hours
44:32.9
44:38.2
talking but I’m gonna have to ask you to
come back some other time and I just
44:38.2
44:41.4
want to thank you for coming on the show
well if we we could certainly spend
44:41.4
44:44.9
another two hours and I think I’d
probably divert it and give you some of
44:44.9
44:48.9
the total stupid stuff I’ve done in my
life around the world the fact that I’ve
44:48.9
44:53.0
escaped with only like the loss of two
fingers you know it’s pretty good
44:53.0
44:57.5
because it’s the one I haven’t lost my
neck as well but no I’ve had a really
44:57.5
45:01.3
great time as I told you I don’t have
any difficulty in talking and I love
45:01.3
45:05.3
talking and everybody in this business
does but it’s a fascinating industry so
45:05.3
45:09.1
never ended in industry and I’m really
really pleased to have had the
45:09.1
45:14.1
opportunity of to sit down and talk with
you thank you very much indeed nation I
45:14.1
45:20.3
know you enjoyed that interview Colin
thank you so much for sharing some of
45:20.3
45:25.2
the stories that you’ve been able to
amass over your water treatment career
45:25.2
45:30.6
and folks there is no secret about it
Colin had never listened to the show
45:30.6
45:38.2
before today after we finished recording
I showed Colin how to get podcast on his
45:38.2
45:43.7
smart phone and he let me know that when
he went back home he listened to a
45:43.7
45:48.2
couple of episodes so Colin’s listen to
the show now and of course Colin’s been
45:48.2
45:54.1
on the show several times when I’ve done
my walkin around either technical
45:54.1
45:59.5
training or the convention at a WT or
even the recent ASHRAE show and I got
45:59.5
46:03.9
Colin to do a quick interview what we
finally got him on the show you all and
46:03.9
46:10.0
the Scaling UP! nation can see why I
wanted to bring him on the podcast I
46:10.0
46:16.5
hope you enjoyed that some of the themes
that Colin spoke about are themes of
46:16.5
46:22.1
this show and I think it’s great because
he has never listened to this show
46:22.1
46:27.9
before we did that recording but he said
don’t do water treatment alone there
46:27.9
46:34.9
many people out there that are so
willing to help you all you have to do
46:34.9
46:40.8
is ask and you know that one of my
common themes for Scaling UP! h2o is for
46:40.8
46:46.7
people to ask others to mentor them well
you heard it from somebody who’s been in
46:46.7
46:52.1
the water treatment industry for well
over 50 years that he still gets
46:52.1
46:57.7
information from others who know
different things than he does so folks
46:57.7
47:01.5
you never stopped learning that was
another theme that he kept on saying
47:01.5
47:07.0
that’s a theme of this show so there’s
no reason for you to try to blazed that
47:07.0
47:14.5
trail by yourself find people you want
to associate with find people that have
47:14.5
47:21.2
information that you know you need to
know and then ask if you can learn from
47:21.2
47:27.6
them associate yourself with people who
have knowledge that you want and then of
47:27.6
47:33.8
course you reciprocate and I can’t tell
you how many relationships that I have
47:33.8
47:39.8
seen grow that I have personally
experienced based on that mentor mentee
47:39.8
47:46.0
relationship Collin said always be
learning and as you heard me say on this
47:46.0
47:51.0
show my father always told me the day
that I stopped learning in water
47:51.0
47:56.7
treatment was the day I needed to find
another job Collin being in the industry
47:56.7
48:02.6
for so many years says that he does not
have a day that goes by that he does not
48:02.6
48:08.7
learn so folks put yourself out there in
the position that you’re always learning
48:08.7
48:15.9
new things are you going to venues that
allow you to learn new things are you
48:15.9
48:21.6
asking questions of people that allow
you to learn new things are you reading
48:21.6
48:27.3
are you doing research that allow you to
learn new things new things you’re gonna
48:27.3
48:32.0
have to take some work out you’re gonna
have to make the decision that I am
48:32.0
48:36.1
consciously going to go out and I’m
gonna learn something new every day and
48:36.1
48:40.0
then reward yourself when that happens
folks look for that
48:40.0
48:45.4
and everyday well you might have heard
me mention this to Colin we’re over ten
48:45.4
48:51.4
thousand subscribers in over 60
countries folks that is amazing to me
48:51.4
48:56.2
and I want to thank all of you out there
in the Scaling UP! nation and I want to
48:56.2
49:01.3
ask that you help me not stop there I
know there are a lot of water treaters
49:01.3
49:06.5
out there that don’t know about Scaling UP! h2o so all of you out there are
49:06.5
49:12.3
ambassadors of the show and I ask you to
talk to other water treaters about
49:12.3
49:17.4
Scaling UP! h2o because hopefully this
show is the catalyst that gets us
49:17.4
49:22.0
thinking just a little bit different and
it allows the water treatment industry
49:22.0
49:27.5
to continually get better because all of
us are getting better folks thanks so
49:27.5
49:31.5
much for listening and I look forward to
coming to you next week on Scaling UP!
49:31.5
49:33.9
h2o