146 Transcript

146 The One Where EOS and Sales Come Together

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hello scaling-up nation tres Blackmore
here the host of scaling up the podcast
where we’re scaling up on our knowledge
so we don’t scale up our systems and
folks I know that again we are learning
how to do things that we have done for
years we’re learning the new normal of
how we do things and that is throwing a
lot of us for a loop and I just want to
encourage everybody out there that just
because things are different it doesn’t
mean that we have to give up on some of
the goals we have on some of the things
that we want to achieve I think what it
does mean is that we need to look at how
we’re measuring those things in this new
normal in this different way that we’re
doing things and we’re all learning how
different it is almost each and every
day well how do our goals align with
what this new normal is with how things
are changing with what we’re being asked
to do and the confines in which we’re
being asked to do it and I want you to
look at your goals and see if they’re
even possible within some of these
parameters that we now have to deal with
I’m willing to bet that they are but the
issue that I find when I talk to many
people that get frustrated with their
goals is they haven’t looked at the new
mindset of this new normal the different
way to do things
with their goals so their goals were set
back before anything happened we even
were talking about a pandemic and now
we’re holding ourselves responsible for
a pre pandemic goal during a pandemic so
with all of that I still think your goal
is obtainable but it might have to be
measured a little bit differently maybe
just a part of that goal is what we need
to look at and that part of that goal is
ultimately going to allow us to
accomplish that goal maybe next
quarter maybe the quarter after I said
on last week’s show that we need to
focus on the things that we can
influence and I brought up the seven
Habits of Highly Effective People the
circle of influence and circle of
concern circle of concern deals with
everything that concerns us but doesn’t
really allow us to affect the outcome
the circle of influence are things that
we can direct the outcome because we
have influence over them now in the
seven Habits of Highly Effective People
the reactive person will spend all of
their time in the circle of concern
where the proactive person spends their
time thinking what can I do
where can I put my energy where I can
have an effect so think about where
you’re putting your energy are you
affecting the outcome of what you’re
trying to do are you simply just
spinning your wheels and worrying about
something that you have absolutely no
control over I think when you can shift
your mindset and your actions to that
circle of influence it will allow you to
do the things that you want to do again
maybe not as quickly as we would have
done them before a pandemic but will
allow you to do the things that you need
to do and get things done so you can
accomplish the goals that you want to
get done well I started out talking
about the circle of influence in the
circle of concern because our guest
today is talking about sales and I know
during this time of how we’re learning
how to do things differently
we’re wondering how do we keep our sales
goals how do we even perform sales
during all this newness that’s going on
and if you were sick you would go to a
doctor so folks if you have a stay
issue and you need a coach well the guy
I’m gonna ham on he’s the guy you go to
he’s a friend of mine his name is Adam
Shapiro and that’s what Adam does Adam
figures out what you’re doing in your
sales process he looks at the entire
process he looks at your messaging he
looks at how you interact with each and
every customer how you followup with
things and he diagnoses what the gaps
are that you need to fill or maybe
you’re not even hitting the mark on a
specific area well he will help you hone
in so the entire process is seamless and
here’s the thing I don’t know if you’ve
ever looked at it but the sales
department is probably the biggest
department where people are doing
everything differently I can’t think of
another department in a company that’s
run like the sales department but
somebody might do something one way
somebody else might do it another and as
long as they’re getting results
nobody really says anything but the
issue is if you look at the entire staff
in the employee department not everybody
is achieving their highest results and
it’s because we have all these renegade
approaches out there what Adam does is
he figures out what works from one
person to another and then tries to
condense that into a standard procedure
so now everybody can do that and now we
can track that and we can see where
people are struggling and we can see
where we need to help people and we can
train new people to be just as
successful as the people that have been
doing this plan for years so during a
pandemic we might be thinking that this
is not a time for sales and Adam was
gracious enough to come on the scaling
up H to a webinar series that we did and
he talked about sales during a pandemic
if you have not seen that webinar I
would urge you to go to scaling up h2o
dot-com forward slash webinar and scroll
down to atoms webinar and he’s going to
give you all sorts of tips so you can
figure out how you can be successful in
these different times and how you can
work in the circle of influence now of
course I just mentioned the seven Habits
of Highly Effective People and another
one of the books that I think is just
tremendous is a book by Gino Wichmann
called traction an in traction he talks
about a OS the entrepreneur operating
system and what that is that is an
operating system that we can run our
companies on that we can run our
territories on and when we now have a
system that comes complete with tools
that we can follow it allows us to be so
much more efficient and make our
messaging whether it’s to other
employees or to our customers so much
clearer our guest today Adam Shapiro of
sales reform school he is an EOS speaker
and Adams going to share with us some
tips today about how we can align the
sales department with what we’ve learned
with the entrepreneurial operating
system so ladies and gentlemen I hope
you enjoy this interview with Adam
Shapiro my lab partner today is Adam
Shapiro president of the sales reform
school how are you Adam well I’m doing
well doing well happy to be here well
Adam I want to welcome you on the
scaling up h2o podcast you are a sales
expert and I don’t care who you are
everybody out there is involved in sales
and I know we’re gonna help a lot of
people today with that fantastic and
thank you for the compliment
absolutely well out of them so the
scaling up nation can appreciate you as
much as I appreciate you can you share a
little bit about yourself
sure for the last 15 years or so I’ve
been helping executives teams prepare
and professionalize their sales teams
and their sales efforts usually its b2b
sellers and sales teams and what I’m
usually do as I come in I help a company
draft or document their sales processes
draft and document the conversations and
recapping and messaging tools they have
within each step of that sales process
and then I help roll those out to
customer facing folks within a company
that includes sales marketing delivery
anyone who interacts with customers so
they know how it is a company goes after
new and existing business or more
business from an existing company doing
that like I said I’ve been doing this
for over 15 15 years and I’ve found that
a lot of companies grow by hiring
workers to do the work hiring managers
to manage the workers having executives
to work on strategy and what they
usually forget or miss out on or just
don’t have time to get to is documenting
processes and messaging tools and what I
would call a playbook or a lot of people
call play books and then we’re how to
roll those out to make sure it sticks
well Adam I’m curious because I know you
have a law degree how does someone go
from getting a law degree to becoming a
Sales Professional
well part of my my company name sales
reform school as part of that there are
those who refer to me as a reformed
lawyer and I’ll take that as a
compliment in some cases I graduated law
school about in 1991 and started working
for corporate legal departments and
realized you know this wasn’t my bag I
made my way into technology sales doing
it with a an organization that had a
product that was a combination of
America Online and LexisNexis if you
knew what those what those are providing
tools for corporate legal departments
and lawyers to get online and share
information and help each other and I
realized you know I really love the
technology so I’m
made my way into technology sales made
my way up the chain of command so to
speak and realized in 2004 I could help
a lot more people have a lot more fun if
I brought sales process training and
workshops to my network and I’ve been
doing that ever since and really
enjoying myself do you ever regret not
going into law I think my mom regretted
more than others I want to correct you a
moment there I was in the law I was a
practicing lawyer for over three years
it also I had a stylist sales executive
who worked on one of my teams once tell
me that Shapiro that darn law degree you
can see around corners so I don’t regret
my sin my law education ever or even the
practice a law that I that I had but you
know I’ve had a great run of it and I
continue to have a great round of it and
it helps me every day Adam back in April
you helped us with our proactive webinar
series and we did a webinar that you
were on talking about how we should look
at sales during the corona pandemic and
I know a lot of people got a lot of
information out of that presentation and
I just want to personally thank you for
doing that for the scammin updation this
seems really strange to say that I
enjoyed doing that webinar with you
since it was a something that was
necessary I wish it wasn’t necessary but
like you said I hope the message got out
and people worth right and I’m
continuing to thrive because of it well
let’s talk about us for a second and
I’ve mentioned the entrepreneur
operating system numerous times on this
show it’s something that I’ve been using
for I want to say about six years now
you are an EOS speaker and I want to
talk a little bit about that first off
in your own words if somebody’s just
tuning in today they never heard about
EOS how would you describe a OS and then
what do you do as an EOS speaker there’s
a lot of metaphors that the EOS
ecosystem so to speak use obviously one
of them is traction from the book by
Gino Whitman where I’m sure you’ve seen
this you meet with an executive team or
you’re a part of an executive team and
off and on the last 15 years I’ve been
asked to be to sit in or be part of
executive teams as well where you get in
meeting with your colleagues and there’s
little agenda there’s little process for
how to work through issues when we when
goals are discussed or objectives are
discussed or even issues there’s no
really processor way that we agree we
should be speaking or talking about
things other times you’ll notice that
companies start have adopted these ideas
of having a company culture or true
values within a company and their words
on a piece of paper or on a poster
but there aren’t return to to where
companies are living and breathing by
those values those core values and those
processes I have found the EOS does a
great job with that extend the metaphor
on traction if you think of a car it
gives a road map also for how teams
executive teams and other teams within
an organization should operate and can’t
operate and it takes the hard part out
of how we solve problems or how we march
forward to reach goals so Adam how did
you become an EOS speaker well like a
lot of things that came from a
relationship of mine I am a member of a
trusted advisor group within Vistage CEO
organization that’s a nationwide and one
of my colleagues in that group is one of
the top implementers of EOS worldwide
really around the country he travels
helping companies implement a OS when he
started learning more about how I
implement process and messaging and
disciplines within my customer base he
said you know there’s a lot
hand-in-glove between what you do and
what I do with EOS and I got that little
dog look where you look up to the left I
go hmm wonder what that’s all about
so I read the book loved it his name is
Tom Bower by the way Tom also wrote a
book called what the heck is EOS that
helps to drive the EOS processes
throughout an organization so I read
that too and I realized wow how does
sales interact with the EOS nomenclature
the OS processes what lessons can
salespeople and sales executives and
managers take from a OS and that to
implement for them
to be more successful and that’s where
the idea went off in both mine and Tom’s
head that I should speak at the OS
conference which I did in May when I
think of processes and I’m a process
person I’ve done episodes on processes
I’m all about checklists but I know most
people out there thinking processes if
you are building something and Six Sigma
and lean manufacturing and all that
stuff they all have processes with them
and if I think of every single
department throughout a company I would
bet that the sales department is
probably the least processed I don’t
know if that’s a word but they have the
least amount of processes throughout
everybody’s doing something differently
would you agree with that I think you’re
absolutely right that in non-performing
organizations or organizations that have
not enjoyed sustainable growth you’ll
find that one of the symptoms is that
they do not have process within their
sales organization but I get it I
understand that salespeople are rather
unique in the business world in that
they feel that process within sales
opportunities could feel like wearing a
straitjacket so if that’s the case think
of it as a paradigm think of it as
examples that were or even a treasure
map to return to when things are going
awry either way if an organization is
trying to figure out why sales are
working or why they’re not and they
can’t figure out well how did we do it
before and then try to do that again
then they’re failing at process it’s the
same thing with the other organs or
other parts of your organization like
you mentioned hey we created this great
product or offering how did we do that
so we can do it again it’s the same
thing with sales Adam you spoke at the
EOS conference and I believe your title
was what the heck should sales do with a
OS did I get that right yeah I’m playing
off Tom Bauer’s book what the heck is
EOS so I’m gonna ask you what the heck
should sales do with EOS as you know
trace one of the foundational elements
from a OS is the vision traction
there’s some great nuggets they’re not
only for an organization to drive
culture throughout their or their own
business but also for salespeople and
sales executives to pull out and be able
to describe in their own sales
opportunities I’m going to mention three
of them right now and by the way there
are other things within EOS that folks
need to pay attention to in order to do
sales well to improve in sales the first
thing I want to I want to point out and
make sure I come back to them one at a
time are on the vision attraction
organizer what are your core values
second what’s our marketing strategy
meaning which potential customers are
you are we targeting and with what
message and then third if we can block
together the one-year plan the rocks and
the issues we can use that as a template
for how to have conversations with key
players within our opportunities you
mentioned the vision traction organizer
otherwise called the VTO and you do a
great job of explaining the VTO and then
going directly into sales do you mind
doing that a little bit for the
scaling-up nation sure if I’m hearing
your question correctly one of the main
parts of that vision traction organizer
the VTO is is hey what’s our marketing
strategy really and if you read the book
traction you’ll see that when they say
what is your marketing strategy what
they’re really saying is what is your
market strategy how do we attack the
market within that marketing strategy
are four items the target market with
three uniques the proven process and the
guarantee let’s focus on two of those
really the middle to the meet if you
will the three uniques and the proven
process when I think of how sales should
organize themselves when they are
addressing the marketing strategy that
the executive team has put together how
does a sales person go out and have a
conversation around the three uniques
how does a sales person describe the
proven process and why should they
let’s start with those three uniques
those three uniques are your
differentiators tracing your own company
you know why you are unique compared to
your competitors but your salespeople
need to have a conversation around this
those conversations can be broken down
into a several components one of which
is hey what stories can we tell that
illustrate one of our three uniques I’ll
give you an example I was speaking with
a gentleman who had a technology company
that sits between large mega retailers
and technology providers really hardware
providers that go into those mega
big-box stores and he said to me Adam
one of our three uniques is that we’re
nimble and I said that’s great what a
fantastic unique that is I don’t
understand what it means though it
sounds great can you give me an example
we were sitting at a coffee shop having
coffee over this and tres he took about
60 seconds looking around the room
thinking to himself before it could come
up with an example of what I was talking
about imagine being on a sales call and
that happening to him wouldn’t be too
comfortable with it absolutely not I
can’t help but think the other side you
know could it also be too scripted yes
so there are I get this a lot so people
that I sit in my workshops within a
private company will say don’t script me
I’m like great let me give you an
example of how to tell a 30 to 60 second
success story or plausible emergency
story around one year three uniques
I’d like you to practice it the way we
have written it together and then make
it your own
and then let’s just practice let’s see
how that goes invariably when they do it
they end up stumbling over themselves
but at least they start practicing so
they’re not winging it to where they
when they actually do talk to prospects
and use those stories they can make it
their own other sales people say yeah
I’m really afraid just to do this
without some sort of document in front
of me that I can practice for them I say
sure here’s a script make it your own
practice it and go forth and conquer
Adam for those P
all that are listening that have not
gone through the eos process and figured
out what their vision is and so that we
have a vision and focus day that we do
with eos how would you describe how to
come up with your three uniques well
hopefully you have a marketing well
let’s talk about several different types
of companies on the smaller end lead
that when we say SMB small and
medium-sized business the small business
we could sit down and think about okay
why do people buy whatever it is you
offer from you let’s take the word
unique out of it since that’s a term
term of art for eos and just tell me
give me your differentiators or let’s
figure out what it is about you or your
organization that as a small business
that people like and then let’s describe
why and then let’s shove that into a
story let’s figure that out as you get
up the chain into medium to larger sized
businesses you’ve got a marketing
department they’ve probably already
thought of that but you guys need to
learn how to talk to each other so let’s
bring marketing into the conversation
and say look what grew I see on your
website you saw some great
differentiators or within eos uniques
how can we boil down your white papers
or your descriptions on your website in
the conversational tools that
salespeople can go out and describe or
discuss with their prospects and with
their customers and that’s a process
that we that we can do with medium-sized
and even larger companies I see too
often where marketing is doing a great
job on branding differentiators three
uniques but they’re not taking those and
boiling down to conversations that
salespeople can use the next item that
you mentioned earlier was proven process
what do we need to do with that well
with a proven process section of the EOS
books the traction books and with and
implementation accompany documents what
their process is for delivering on their
promises to their customers oftentimes a
prospect or a customer will say well gee
trace that sounds great if we could
actually achieve that it would be
fantastic how do you do that boom that’s
your cue to describe your proven process
everyone in a cup
me I I would submit should be able to go
to a barbecue or get-together cocktail
party when someone says so what is your
company do or how do you do it and be
able to describe their proven process in
less than a minute minute and a half at
most that’s how you guys deliver on your
promise to the market I find way too
often sales people who are maybe really
good at asking questions telling stories
doing demonstrations of their own
technology companies describing their
products so how do we do this and they
can’t describe their company’s proven
process and the prospects go oh I’m not
very confident now that they can deliver
the proven process description becomes
is a great tool for a salesperson to
show confidence in their ability to
deliver on their promises when you did
the webinar for sales in a pandemic you
mentioned that then was the time more
than ever to talk about your
implementation story is that the same
thing you’re saying yes the
implementation story and the proven
process are very similar the big
difference though and one thing I want
to make sure everyone realizes is the
proven process within the VTO or within
a company’s implementation of EF cos is
a more generic market driven tool here’s
how we go to market here’s how we
deliver on our process the
implementation story within a particular
opportunity is for that customer with
that offering that you’re offering them
now there’s what you’re proposing how
you would implement so there is a
there’s a distinction there that the
implementation story within a sales
process is more differentiated and more
particular to an actual opportunity the
proven process within a vision
attraction organizer of the VTO is about
how a company goes to market and
delivers I’m trying to remember the
exact question that one of the webinar
participants asked but I believe it was
something around during April when
nobody was seen anybody how do we sell
or how do we prove we can still deliver
what we need to during those pandemic
times yes how do we deliver it in times
of selling of virtually where you’re
either over the phone or over a video
call have your stories at
ready be able to describe in 30 to 60
seconds how a similar prospect of yours
to the person you’re talking to how you
were able to help them get out of a
problem and achieve a distinct benefit
to their business one of the things that
I really like about the entrepreneurial
operating system is it ensures that you
have specific goals the top things that
if you can work on they’re really gonna
move the needle for you and your company
and we have all these goals we call
those rocks when they last 90 days and
then in order to achieve those we have
all of these issues that we overcome in
the sales department we have a whole
bunch of issues so what do we do in the
sales department around these issues
these goals these rocks it’s really
as late as five years ago a smart person
in sales where a smart consultant could
call up an executive and come at them
with this claim hey I’m smart tell me
your problems tell me your goals I can
tell you my solutions and people would
listen the world has changed even in the
last five years where if you don’t come
at an executive understanding their
business and delivering an insight for
them to show that you’ve been thinking
about them beforehand they’re not gonna
give you the time of day I teach what’s
called the Challenger choreography which
comes from the Challenger sail book an
excellent book that I recommend to all
your listeners and within that we can
meld the gold rocks issues ideas from a
OS e OS says hey within our company
within our team let’s figure out what
our goals are what our big rocks are
whether they’re for the next 90 days for
the next year or next five years let’s
figure out what our issues are that are
keeping us from getting there let’s
figure out what solution we can provide
to fix those issues and achieve our
goals or objectives when I saw that read
that within the EOS books really then
the processes I said gee that’s exactly
the same way a salesperson should be
going after an opportunity they should
understand and warm up to their market
warm up to those key players or talk
– by saying hey I get you you’re trying
to accomplish the following goals big
rocks but you’re having issues getting
there such as and be thoughtful and
understanding that here’s how we would
help in that situation so there you have
taking lessons from the vision traction
organizer the goals rocks issues from
AOS and saying I can use that same
discussion tool that same template and
apply it to my opportunities that’s
where this comes comes in salespeople
should be doing that they should be
understanding what goals and rocks their
prospects are faced with and are
struggling with and then seeing how they
can adapt or correlate their
capabilities from their own companies to
helping helping with those issues to
help overcome those issues and then
solve those big rocks those big goals
and objectives Adam what advice do you
have to make sure you’re getting to
those issues with the customer well
there’s there’s a few few things that
you can do first of all research
research research you have to if you’re
about to call a key player at a target
company within your ideal client profile
and you don’t have an understanding or
an assumption about what you expect to
be their goals or bid or big rocks you
haven’t done your homework if I were to
call you you trace and say hey Trey
stand your water treatments business
what are you guys trying to accomplish
you would hang up on me right away you
don’t have time for that but if I said
you hate race when I study your business
and your industry it seems executives in
your position or trying to accomplish
the following am I right about that at
least I’ve done my homework and you’ll
say one of two things it’s a binary
question guess that’s exactly what we’re
trying to accomplish how would you do
that how would you two help me with that
or you’ll say no that’s not what we’re
trying to accomplish but here is and you
would tell me then what that is that’s
called warming up to your prospect do
your research have some thought about it
you’re marketing people or if you have
them are a great source for this because
they have gone through the process of
designing products and designing
marketing to address your market to help
them take care of big rocks and
the issues that are keeping them from
doing its doing so so the first thing I
would say is talk to marketing do some
research and then the last thing I’ll
say is have a some friendly fire if your
company already has customers and you
want more customers like them do it
customer interview go to your customers
and say you know we’re so grateful that
you’re a customer of ours
we’ve been doing a great relationship I
just want to make sure I got something
right when you first decided to work
with us what were you trying to
accomplish and see what they say and
then see if that’s something you can
then draft for your next opportunity
Adam earlier you mentioned core values
how do we make sure we’re using our core
values when we’re in the sales mode so
core values are both internal looking
and external looking core or appropriate
if you will many companies will say
here’s our core values and let’s make
sure everything we do is following those
core values and it activities or things
that go on within a company that are
outside those core values should be
marked and either discussed or
eliminated but it’s another thing to be
for a core value to be external we see a
lot of companies these days listing on
their websites for all to see what their
core values are we see it come out and
advertising and marketing
well how does sales people take those
core values and describe them within
their sales opportunities within in
their pipeline really the question
becomes from a prospects perspective why
should I care why should I care about
your core values well it all returns
back to the definition of trust and I
think it was Covey jr. Stephen Covey jr.
who defined trust as sincerity plus
competence be thinking the trust that
you are trying to build within your
sales opportunities it’s really about
showing them that you’re sincerely
trying to help them solve problems and
reach goals and objectives there’s big
rocks but it’s also about you showing
your competence that you’re the person
who can help them do that how do we show
our confidence we can’t just tell them
because we know that a lot of
salespeople before us have destroyed
trust by
bragging and puffing and doing things in
sales cycles that are unnatural towards
building trust it’s really about the
stories so I mentioned earlier about the
three uniques
let’s also talk about those core values
if you have a core value of helping your
customers no matter what solve problems
well give me a story about that if you
have a core value of integrity well what
does that mean to a prospect when is
giving it can you give me an example of
where that comes through once the
company takes their core values and
looks externally to where they’ve
drafted 30 to 60 second stories that
describe a horrible situation that a
prospect was in or a customer was in and
how dot adapting a core value to that
situation led to a great result now
you’re gonna start building trust within
your sales opportunities and we can do
that together it’s funny the trace is
oftentimes people take their core values
and described them as capabilities
without describing what I call act 1 of
the story pardon my french but it’s true
it’s usually what is the quote crappy
situation that a prospect or a customer
may find themselves in that would lead
to them needing me to have that core
value atom I’m so glad you mentioned
that when we started a OS several years
ago the team came up with our core
values but the team truly didn’t
understand the core values when we
simply just defined them when we had a
story and then a situation that’s when
everybody started getting it yeah a
trace in that situational story that
emergency situation we’re relying on
your core value 1 the day for you and
your customer those the stories people
want to hear and it really means that
you’ve driven that core value not only
internally through your organization but
made sure they’re expressed to your
customers every day I have one client
who a core value of theirs was we’ve we
have operating procedures we follow them
so how did that come out in their sales
processes well they’re customers would
say to them gee if you guys implement
what you have to offer the way you sell
to us meaning
following a process documenting
procedures keeping up and keeping up
with each other planning a lot of
planning a project managing throughout
the sales process then we’re gonna be
great and that’s why they would sell
they would win opportunities solely
because of the way they sold rather than
what they sold and it seems to me like
we’ve come full-circle back to the
proven process and I know that is where
you excel working with clients do you
mind sharing how you do that and and
what you do when you work with clients
to help them develop that proven process
sure so on this podcast I’ve described
taking that EEO s and pulling things out
and helping document things for sales
people and putting down processes and
things like that and what would happen
is someone would call me and say hey I
heard your podcast how do you do that
just as we described earlier on this on
this podcast so here it goes so I would
say well for me I use a process that has
three phases in that first phase I need
to have the smart people in your company
in a room sales marketing and delivery
who understand your brand’s and say okay
what sales process do we need to clone
over and over again who our ideal client
profile and who are the key players
within that I’ll then document that
first sales process or massage the sales
processes that you’ve used and layer in
now messaging what are the conversations
salespeople should have and what are
examples and templates the conversations
that salespeople should have within that
process so we’re creating your first
play but playbook 1.0 so in this first
phase I’ve created that playbook 1.0 and
I’ve also poured it now into a two day
workshop so now we move into Phase two
that onboarding workshop we’ve created
in phase one
we’re onboarding in phase two all
customer-facing personnel sales
marketing delivery now sit through a
two-day workshop and I shouldn’t say sit
through but are engaged in a workshop
that follows a cadence
of me talking for 10 or 15 minutes in a
facilitated way doing some lab work and
then practicing what we’ve done to where
they’re practicing and working with the
same playbook we created in phase 1 to
then make sure it sticks once we’ve had
that work
and on board it or in boarded your
customer-facing folks we then move into
Phase three the final phase which I call
mastery where I’m doing office hour
webinars and I’m also coaching both the
coaches and the individuals on how to
use what we learned in Phase two and
documented in phase one to then have
true behavior change what are the
disciplines how do we execute the
process steps and how do we use the
messaging tools we’ve created so that
now we have everyone rowing if you will
in the same way mastering your sales
culture and your sales playbook
that’s my proven process I still can’t
help but thinking there’s so many
salespeople out there especially sales
managers thinking every body is doing
things differently they know it can be
more efficient but they don’t know how
to take that first step what advice
would you have for them I often think
that that in my mind that goes to a blog
post I wrote somebody some years ago
called mommy or daddy voice where a
salesperson says here’s how I did this
and it didn’t work sales manager says
well you should have done it like this
this is how I do it
and now it becomes a rock fight between
I can’t be you I want to do it my way no
do it my way instead what I look for is
a facilitative process where sales rep
and sales manager can agree on what is
the best practices objective way of
going after business once they agree to
that then the onboarding and the mastery
is all about returning to that objective
third party process and messaging tools
that we agreed is the way to move
forward it’s not a well I can’t be like
you well you should do it this way
conversation it’s okay where are you in
the process that we’ve agreed is the way
we should go after sales now for those
sales individuals out there that need to
now go to their sales managers and
present this idea to them what would you
tell them so there’s usually a list of
complaints you know salespeople are
famous for being the ones who who abide
by the squeaky wheel gets the grease
mantra on how to get things done what
they should be doing is saying look I
see all this great stuff that marketing
is putting out there but I’m having to
put that in my own words and I’m worried
I’m not doing
the way others on the team or you would
do it why don’t we sit down and put
together our playbook for how we have
conversations around these marketing
pieces that’s one second I keep doing
things my way because you tell me to go
out and do go get sales so I have my I
guess processes on how I would do it but
it doesn’t seem to gel with how you
think I should do sales
why don’t we come together or find
someone that can help us put together
our process and then we can manage you
and work through things like that that’s
just two examples well often times I
will use this podcast to just get out
things that I don’t like seeing that
people do so I’m gonna give you that
what do sales people do that you just
want them to stop doing so there’s a
there’s a famous sales movie gun
Glengarry Glen Ross that a lot of people
love and it’s one of my favorites a lot
of people have watched it and enjoyed it
I don’t believe in the ABC of selling
always be closing
no nowadays if you rush someone in this
into a sale that you’re gonna you are
gonna regret it and they’re gonna regret
it and you will not have happy customers
that you can turn into success stories I
would prefer that if your sales cycle is
any any sort of complex sales cycle and
I define a complex sales cycle as
multiple decision makers multiple steps
in a process multiple being more than
one or more than two then let’s slow it
down and the right time to close is when
the evaluation process is complete if
you have no idea what I’m talking about
when I say the evaluation process is
complete it means you’re not being
thoughtful in the sequence of events
that a buyer should go through to decide
to buy from you and you’re not
presenting that as a process then they
can go through to work together to
project manage their evaluation throwing
a lot out you hear but this is something
I see a lot people like well when can I
close and they haven’t and they don’t
ask for the business because they don’t
know when the evaluation process is over
or they try to close too early and they
piss off their their prospects because
the prospect wasn’t even ready the
second thing I would point to is a basic
sales discipline of active listening I’m
finding too many salespeople
have no clue how to just be quiet and
listen to their prospects listen to
what’s going on in their particular
businesses and then adapt their
capabilities to those needs or what
those those issues or challenges are
that their prospects are giving too
often sales is an alpha dog business
where you tell me you have a problem or
an objective I’ve got a solution for you
and there’s no middle middle step of
acknowledging the situation and treating
the buyer is unique so I’d say those are
two things not mapping out the
evaluation process and not listening
well enough to treat your prospect as
unique what is the one underlying
message that you want to make absolutely
clear to the scaling-up nation today you
should not be treating your salespeople
or your sales teams as practicers of the
black arts it is not something that you
should just let off to decide and hope
that they succeed we can help them by
creating sales processes sales messaging
tools and then putting together a group
of disciplines that they should follow
to succeed well Adam I appreciate all
the information that you have shared
with me that you have shared with the
scaling up nation today but I do have a
few more lightning round questions for
you if you’re ready for those let’s do
it all right so if you could go back to
your very first day when you were a
sales professional what advice would you
give yourself I would tell myself Adam
you are by far not the smartest person
in the room so you better prepare more
for these conversations what are the
last few books that you’ve read the last
three books I’ve read were fact fulness
by Hans Rosling combo prospecting by
Tony Hughes and Alexander Hamilton by
Ron chernow did you see the musical I
have it’s one of my favorites by the way
during our hook we’ll call quarantine or
staying at home time if we rotate
through a few musicals that were that
are some of our family favorites and
that’s one of them we do some work with
our church and
had a middle-school group so I think the
King George part for my middle school
boys I don’t know if they were impressed
or not fantastic I might have to make
you do that one please don’t please
alright so when Hollywood hears about
Adam Shapiro who plays you in the movie
well understanding that that sometimes
your biggest fan is your mother I once
overheard my mother talking to my
grandmother who’s no longer with us and
described me as George Clooney I blushed
and laughed out loud to where she
noticed but let’s sit let’s go for
George I like it he and I share the same
birthday alright my final question if
you could talk with anybody throughout
history who would it be with and why
well Alexander Hamilton is still top of
mind because I mean that book is amazing
and of course I love the show so much so
I’m gonna stick with it with Hamilton
I’m also because of my father grew up in
and I was born in Brooklyn New York and
his favorite baseball player was Jackie
Robinson so that’s a close one to there
one in one a is what Jackie Robinson
went through and had such incredible
impact in career I would love to talk to
him as well well I appreciate you
talking with us today I know I learned a
lot the nation learned a lot so thank
you so much for coming on scaling-up age
– oh my pleasure tres
Adam thanks again for coming on scaling
up h2o a lot of times we don’t look at
how we can integrate departments into
the EOS system we look at the company as
a whole and I love how you take the
approach on tools that we are learning
about with AOS tools that were already
using and using those mindsets that EOS
has us get into to affect the sales
department in a positive way I know I
learned a lot from talking to you and
asking you all these questions and I’m
pretty sure the scaling up nation
learned a lot as well again Adam did a
great webinar for us if you want to hear
more of Adam Shapiro you can go to our
resources page on scaling up h2o and
it’s the proactive webinar series if you
just want to type directly into your
browser it’s scaling up h2o comm forward
slash webinar and I believe there’s 15
webinars up there and if you scroll
through you can see Adam talking about
how to handle sales during a pandemic
folks if there’s one thing you can get
out of this episode it’s thinking about
how the sales department is structured
and again the sales department is one of
those things where everybody does it a
little bit different and being a former
sales manager that is almost impossible
to coach people to get people to a
higher level to a higher job
satisfaction making them just overall
more successful when you don’t have a
same way of doing sales now I’m not
saying you’re creating a bunch of robots
but there definitely needs to be a
procedure on what makes how you do
things the way that people are going to
do things now if we were manufacturing
something nobody would even question
that we needed a
Seeger to make sure we got the right
widget out the door
well aren’t we doing the same thing with
the sales department a nation if you
remember on episode 39 I interviewed
Justin Roth Marsh on the sales
department and that was entitled the one
that will change your sales department
Justin wrote a book called the machine
and it’s a really neat book in the
beginning of the book he talks about how
we have done sales the exact same way
since the Industrial Revolution and
since the Industrial Revolution
how manufacturing of goods has changed
tremendously and it’s gotten a lot safer
it’s got a lot more efficient well he
says why not change the sales department
into something that’s more efficient
into something that’s more repeatable
and I think that’s exactly what Adam is
talking about here today and if you can
just think what are the things that make
me successful in sales one of the things
that make my department successful in
sales and how do we create a format
where everybody is starting off at their
highest potential using proven tactics
that are going to allow them to be as
efficient as they possibly can I think
that is worth every bit of time that you
would spend rewriting those procedures
or maybe just writing those procedures
for the first time nation is you know
one of my goals is to bring material to
you that is useful that you are asking
for so I’m gonna ask for that again if
there is a topic you want me to cover if
there is a guest that you want me to
reach out to please go to scaling-up
h2o comm go to our show ideas section
and let me know what that is in fact if
you have a question that you want me to
on scaling up h2o you can record your
own voice by going to scaling up h2o
comm a voicemail button will pop up and
you can record your own voice and I
might just put that on the air and
answer your question something else
people always ask what do I need help
with I need help getting the message out
about scaling up h2o so if you know
somebody that you think can benefit from
listening to this podcast please let
them know about it but don’t assume that
they know how to get on a podcast you
might have to do a little bit more work
so it advise them on how to use a
podcast service and then get them to
subscribe to scaling up h2o another
thing that you can do that would be oh
so helpful for myself and my team if you
can leave a comment about this show that
helps iTunes boost us up on where they
show us and it allows us to be a little
bit more visible folks I appreciate all
you do for me and helping me create this
show and I have to tell you it’s one of
my favorite things that I enjoy doing so
thanks for helping me out with that I
hope everybody has a great week I hope
everybody stay safe out there and I will
come at you next week with another brand
new episode scaling up nation on episode
136 you heard from four members of the
rising tide mastermind one of those
members was Erik Caruso and Erik is an
extremely busy individual and I asked
him the question how he found the time
and why he decided to join the rising
tide mastermind here’s what he said like
most people in the water treatment
industry there’s always a struggle with
working life and I had a daughter on the
way and I was probably a little more
mindful of how much I was working and
how I can adjust my schedule or make it
in such a way that was just
aníbal for my family in this
conversation a little more difficult
when you don’t have people in the water
treatment industry because they don’t
understand the travel aspect the service
aspect the technical knowledge needed to
be successful it’s a little more
difficult to balance that so to have a
group of like-minded individuals to work
through with the goal of
self-development it’s really helpful
that kind of hashed into those problems
for me have you ever noticed that if you
want something done you give it to a
busy person why is that why do busy
people always seem to get something done
and we always wonder why but there’s a
secret to that most busy people if
they’re busy on the right things it
means that they are successful and
they’ve learned to say yes to the things
that help with their success however
they define success think about that
what was the last time you thought to
yourself how do i define success well
those are some of the questions that we
asked in the rising tide mastermind and
Eric asked himself if I joined the
rising tide mastermind will this make me
a better husband will this make me a
better father will this make me a better
water treater and Eric has told me that
it has done all of those things and he
is sure glad that he decided to join
folks I cannot say enough good things
about being involved in a mastermind
group I ask that you go to scaling-up
h2o dot-com forward slash mastermind to
see if being a member of the rising tide
mastermind is right for you and if you
decide that it is not please find a
group that is right for you when we get
together with other people that are
concerned about everyone’s success
everyone gets better and the tide rises
all boats