170 Transcript

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Today’s episode is proudly sponsored by pyxis. The pts a experts nation I have been using PTSA for years. And as you know, when you use PTSA, you have to use a meter that you can depend on. Well right out of the box, I use my pyxis meter and I found it was superior to other meters that I have tried at a price that made it easy for me to outfit everybody within my company with a pyxis meter. Now when you measure PTSA, you need to make sure that you are accurate, so you do not underfeed or overfeed, fix us meters compensate for turbidity and color ensuring that you get the most accurate results. Texas offers top of the line handheld and inline sensors as well as tracer products and calibration standard solutions. Visit pyxis today by going to scaling up h2o dot com forward slash pyxis. That’s p y x is happy Thanksgiving scaling up nation trace Blackmore here, folks Thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays. I just love cooking. I love people coming over. I know that was a little bit weird in some areas this year with everything that we’re dealing with. at our house, we had our usual people that we hung out with. I love turkeys, Turkey gets such a bad rap. I think I would eat turkey each and every week if my wife would allow it. But it’s lucky for me, she allows me to have it on Thanksgiving. She is not a turkey fan. For those of you out there that are cooking slash chemistry nerds. It’s a little older show it used to come on Food Network, but it was called Good Eats out and Brown was the host. They actually quickened that series a couple years ago, where they’re now doing some new episodes. And it’s just so much fun. He will go into researching how the food gets cooked, what’s going on in the background, all that stuff. And he’ll bring in food anthropologist and food scientists to give you the backstory of what’s going on with the food. And I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this, but that show was a big inspiration on how I do research for this show. I remember I watched an interview with Oulton Brown, and he told the person that was interviewing him that he wanted his show to be a mixture of Mr. Wizard, Julia Child, and Monty Python, and he kind of merged all those things together. I don’t know if you’ve seen all those shows, those are kind of shows that I grew up with. I know exactly what he was talking about. I think he achieved that kind of that quirky wittiness folks, you can stream those if you haven’t seen those shows. But I just wanted to share with the scaling up nation that that was one of the motivators for me doing this podcast. And one of the ways that I prepare for this podcast is kind of the same way that he does that. By the way, as far as Thanksgiving goes. If you ever Brian a turkey, and you have not seen his episode, on brining Turkey, you are missing out, I have done that recipe for 10 plus years, turkeys turn out awesome. People are like, Oh my gosh, I’ve never had a turkey this good. How did you do it? And then you don’t have to let them know where you got the recipe. You just let them think that you are a miracle worker when it comes to Turkey. Well, folks, I love Thanksgiving. There’s so many things that I’m thankful for. I’m of course thankful for this podcast, and I’m thankful for the scaling up nation. Folks, we have our own community within the water treatment industry. How awesome is that? I’m also thankful for the rising tide mastermind, folks. We’re up to four groups. Now. We started last January, we had two groups. We’re launching two new groups next week for a total of four groups. We’re building a new waiting list, which means we’re going to have more groups. So I have to tell you, I’m learning just as much and I’m developing just as much as the people that are in the mastermind. It’s an incredible organization where we all are looking out for each other, making sure that we are building each other up, thereby building the industry up. And I know you hear me talk about the mastermind all the time. But folks, it truly is something that has helped me has helped all the individuals within the mastermind. And so if the mastermind sounds like something that you are considering, I’d ask for you to do that very thing. Consider it go to scaling up h2o dot com forward slash mastermind. And to find out more, if what you read there sounds like something you want to be a part of, I will be happy to do a phone call with you to answer any questions that you might have. And make sure that you’re a good fit for the group and the group is a good fit for you. So again, that scaling up h2o dot com for slash mastermind, folks again in the Thanksgiving theme, and I’m also thankful for all of those organizations that are out there that help us do our jobs better, and all the things that they do to help us be better within our industries. But I think there is a whole area that is overlooked. And I think many of us look to the national agencies or the global agencies. And we step right over what is local to us. So I’m going to ask you, what are the local organizations that are in your community that need you? Where can you make an impact, and also get to know your potential customers? Well, today we’re talking to max Herzog of the Cleveland water Alliance, where we’re going to talk about that very subject. My lab partner today is Max Herzog of the Cleveland water Alliance. How are you, Max? I’m doing well, how are you? tres, I’m doing? Well, thanks for asking. I’m really excited about our conversation today. Because I think people like yourself working with water treaters, like myself and other municipalities, trying to educate people on how they can use water better, are more and more common. So I’m really excited to talk about everything about the Cleveland water Alliance and what that is and what we can expect in our other areas across the United States. And before we do that, do you mind sharing a little bit about yourself? Sure. So even though now I’m working in kind of the water technology and water innovation field, my background is actually more in the environmental sciences as well as in political sciences. So historically, my interests have been in you know, how can we look at organizing organizations organizing Coalition’s of organizations for impact in different areas of environmental work. And so it’s been really exciting to get engaged with the Cleveland water Alliance, which takes this kind of innovative cluster based approach to water entrepreneurship, water technology, and leveraging multiple organizations working together in collaboration to drive improved environmental quality, as well as economic development through the water technology space. Well, let me ask what exactly is the Cleveland water Alliance? What do you guys do? For sure. So we at the Cleveland water Alliance identify as a water innovation cluster. This is a model that, you know, there are a number of folks that are kind of approaching this across the United States, as well as globally. And what we mean by a water innovation cluster, a nonprofit organization that takes a collaborative approach to driving innovation within the water space, with kind of a dual focus on helping our region improve our environmental quality, helping us deal with some of our water challenges through new technology and innovation, but also leveraging that new technology and innovation as a driver of economic growth. So we convene a pretty broad set of collaborators to come together around ideas of innovation, and identify opportunities for our region, which is the Lake Erie region to grow collaboratively together. How many of these clusters are around the United States? That’s a great question. So there are lots of folks that are approaching the cluster work from different perspectives, many folks that are kind of in the earlier stages of the work or attacking one or two components of cluster based work. But you know, from our perspective, there are really only about three or four groups that have you know, really stood up robust what we would call cluster based work. I want to say it was a couple of years ago when the Association of water technologies was in Cleveland for one of their technical training events. You all were gracious enough to come over and show us some of the things that You were doing, do you mind sharing some of the things that the Cleveland waterlines is currently working on? Absolutely. So, you know, we’re always kind of engaged in a number of different projects, one of the biggest and kind of most attention grabbing things that we’ve been engaged in over the past few years, has been running innovation competitions. So this is a program format, where we kind of combine the ethos of one or two day hackathon, you know, which traditionally brings together teams of technical folks, coders or engineers, to try and develop new solutions to long standing problems. We kind of combine that approach with more of a traditional business accelerator startup accelerator format. So for our Erie hack competition, which is the largest scale competition that we execute, we help folks kind of come together in teams, whether it’s, you know, undergraduates, studying computer science or engineering that are interested in kind of starting to apply their skills in some sort of area of positive impact, or professional water engineers, water operators, and folks that are working for, you know, established companies within the space. And so we work with those folks to bring them together, develop their ideas, in partnership with expert mentors from a variety of spaces. And then we run them through a series of pitching events, kind of similar to the Shark Tank, TV show, if you’re familiar with that, one of my favorite shows, yeah, it’s a great show. So this approach really allows us to activate sort of the early stage innovations that exist across the lake erie region, really, you know, crowdsourcing solutions to some of our longest standing water related challenges in the region. And we’re really excited to be able to award you know, pretty substantive prizes to enable some of these teams to really be able to move forward with their solutions in the form of a startup business, or by partnering with an existing business or organization. We run this competition every two years. So the last competition last year, you had competition wrapped up in the end of 2019. When we awarded about $100,000, prizes, to our winning teams, what were some of the things that came out of that competition. So this past year, our winning team was a group called toxo. It’s a acronym that stands for trap and contain stormwater objects. So this is a team that combined an architect, a industrial design student, trying to remember the other members of the team, it was a pretty diverse team, someone with a legal background, I believe. And this team was focused on constructing resilient cages that can be deployed at stormwater outfalls to capture the physical debris that comes out of those outfalls during combined sewer overflow events. So it’s not a way to mitigate, necessarily the bacterial impact, for example, of a combined sewer event. But it’s a way to capture some of the physical debris that comes out. And they’re really targeting their solution at smaller municipalities that don’t necessarily have the capacity of some of our larger partners like a Northeast Ohio regional sewer district to engage in kind of robust watershed management work. So that’s a team that we’re really excited about. We’re working with them now to apply for some of the EPA, Great Lakes trash mitigation grants that are out. And they’re working on a couple of pilot deployments now with some of our smaller municipalities in the northwest of Ohio. So another solution that we’re really excited about continuing to work with, they came out of our 2017 Erie hack is a group called Erie open systems. This is a group of researchers and PhD candidates out of the University of Akron, who collaborated together to develop an open source device for nutrient monitoring that uses spectrophotometry. So basic chemical reactions, and then analysis of color to measure phosphates and nitrates with a device that costs about 20 to $30 in parts, instead of the, you know, 1000s of dollars that a lot of common nutrient detection devices cost. And, you know, they’re really focused on kind of the open source and civic science component of this. So we’ve been really excited to be able to partner with them actually on a new program that we’re rolling out this year that we’re calling smart citizen science, which is collaboratively funded by a number of our community foundations across the lake erie region, and part of a broader Great Lakes effort called Green lakes, one water and what it’s going to look like for us here in the Lake Erie region is actually rolling out this nutrient device to citizen And science groups that have, you know, volunteer water quality monitoring programs across the region so that they can be collecting nutrient at low cost. And we’re gonna be providing a number of other support systems for these often under resourced organizations, including a common data infrastructure, and more structured communications plan at the regional level. So those are some examples of, you know, some of our standouts from the the program and how we’re continuing to collaborate with them. But really, the competitions have been such a great experience for us as a cluster, because it’s a really great way to engage kind of the full range of our members, you know, our utility partners like Cleveland water, these tie regional sewer district, Avon, Lake regional water, as well as our research collaborators, like Case Western Ohio State University, and the industry folks that are really important to our the private sector industry, I should say, folks that are really important to our cluster, folks like kinetico, Mo, and xylem, a lot of our water resource engineering firms, as well as startups across the region. So they’ve just been a really great tool for us to really push out this narrative of water innovation, the importance of our Great Lakes, not just as an essential ecological resource, but also as an innovation, opportunity and opportunity for new industries to grow, but an opportunity for entrepreneurship. I’m really curious about the process. So the team that you mentioned, developed a cage to catch trash? How did that come to be? Did you guys give them a issue and they had to work into they just pick that issue? And then once they develop the issue, where does it go from there? Yeah, that’s a great question. So the way that we approach kind of structuring the framing the issues is through a series of what we call challenge statements. We actually in 2017, when we executed the first year, rehak, went to each of our six participating communities to run through a actually a process led by our collaborators at NASA Glenn Research Center, to draw out kind of the core water resource challenges that our communities were facing, from the perspective of, you know, folks that are experts in water resources, whether that’s, you know, from a utility perspective, or from a water management or surface water management perspective, as well as from the perspective of community members and members of the technology community. So what we kind of did through that process was define six core issue areas that the Lake Erie region faces in terms of our water resources, we actually added a seventh one with this past iteration. And they’re kind of high level descriptions of the problems, as well as a couple of ideas on sort of intervention points within those systems, but they’re framed in a way that’s technology agnostic, so we’re not prescribing, you know, okay, we know that combined, sewer overflow is an issue. But we’re not saying how you address that issue, it might be with a cage for an example, that tries to capture the physical debris as it comes out of the overflow. But it may also be, you know, a series of sensors and real time controls, like we see with some of our collaborators up at University of Michigan, and the Great Lakes Water Authority using to actually better manage the existing stormwater infrastructure to mitigate the the occurrence of of these overflows in the first place. So that’s kind of our approach, we frame the broad challenges, and then let folks bring their technology expertise to the table to think about where it might plug in. So somebody out there is listening. And this just sounds amazing. And they want to get involved. Can you explain that process? Is it a membership? How do you guys actually function with that, in terms of engaging in the area hack or engaging with us as a cluster more generally? I would say both, for sure. So with the Erie hack, we run it every other year. It’s open to folks across the across the globe. But there are some restrictions in terms of who’s eligible to receive prize dollars. So in order for folks outside of the Lake Erie region, to receive prize dollars, there has to be direct collaboration with folks on the ground here in this region. But that’s certainly not a challenge. There are many, many people who get engaged in this and lots of them are looking for partnerships. So really, the process for getting engaged in Erie hack is just to be in our in our area hack years, which our next our next edition will be in 2021. To go to Erie hack.io. register yourself and start to check out some of the events that we have coming up the webinar events. And if you ever have any questions, you can always reach out directly to myself or our local organizers in each of our participating cities. So that’s how you can get involved with the Erie hack with the Cleveland waterlines, there’s a whole suite Other support services that we offer to our collaborators, you know, it depends kind of the perspective from which a potential member is coming. So with our utility partners, we work really closely to identify potential innovations that could help address some of the technical challenges that they’re currently facing. We also work with them around communications and connecting with the community to better tell the story of the value of water. And in particular, you know, our focus is on the value of water innovation. With our research institution partners, we work really closely to identify early stage innovations that are being developed in the lab, and try and create opportunities for partnership, either between research institutions for collaboration, and that way to draw in, you know, new resources at the state or federal level, or really to look at kind of this idea of tech transfer, and where there are opportunities for some of the innovations and technologies being developed in the lab, at some of our, you know, tier one research institutions in the region to plug into either existing industrial players in the region and kind of license technologies and, and transition in that way, or to spin out as a new startup. And we can support that kind of activity as well. And then with our broader industry, kind of collaborative of partners, there’s obviously the connections to utility partners and research institutions that I already mentioned, you know, the opportunity for tech transfer, the opportunity for client engagement. But we also help, you know, our industry partners think through innovation agenda. So where should they be focusing kind of their next steps in terms of staying on the cutting edge of their industry? You know, here in our region, we have a really great representation around the in house plumbing industry, as well as in house water treatment. So we’re seeing a lot of interest right now from some of our collaborators in kind of the Smart Home movement, and how does that interface with the water industry as it exists in the home? And so those are the sorts of things that we can collaborate with folks on the industry level around? What would you say one of the biggest issues that we should be focusing on when it comes to water is, I mean, as a kind of catch all category, I think aging infrastructure is clearly one of the biggest issues, it drives a number of ancillary issues, things like combined sewer overflow, which we talked about already, things like urban flooding, water affordability is a big issue, we’re really proud to participate in the US water alliances, water equity taskforce alongside a number of our collaborators, including Cleveland water, and Northeast Ohio regional sewer district. But this issue of aging infrastructure is a really, really big one. So we’re always focused on what are ways that we can help our utility partners cut costs in order to be able to reinvest in infrastructure, as well as ways that we can keep our communities engaged in understanding the value of water so that we know so that our communities are aware of the necessity of really investing in these resources. Yet, Charles Fishman says in his book, The Big thirst that because water is so cheap, we don’t address things like you just mentioned, would you agree with him? I think that is true. I think for a lot of folks, it’s kind of out of sight, out of mind, both in terms of not seeing the infrastructure do its work and not seeing the impact in your bottom line, month to month. I think that’s that’s starting to change in our region, you know, across the Great Lakes region, aging infrastructure is almost ubiquitous. And we’re really starting to see some of the costs of water start to rise, and have you know, people in households, especially lower income households really start to notice that. So I think it’s really going to continue to increase as a national conversation as we move forward here. One other big issue for us that we’re focused on regionally here in Lake Erie is the issue of nutrient pollution and harmful algae blooms hypoxia as well, although, you know, we tend to see more focus on the the harmful algae since it has more direct potential health impacts and much more direct economic impacts as well. We’re really fortunate here in the state of Ohio to have a governor that’s really investing right now in nutrient management. And we’re really excited about the potential technology implications and possibilities around this. Right now, Ohio is investing significantly around agricultural best management practices and constructed wetlands as ways to mitigate some of our nutrient pollution challenges, which are generally kind of agricultural driven. And we’re really excited to be able to collaborate around looking at What’s what types of smart sensors and smart management systems can be applied to some of these nutrient mitigation solutions to both benchmark the current state of things and really assess the impact of these of these mitigation solutions, as well as to establish kind of a framework for ongoing adaptive management, that that’s something that we really think is an opportunity for us here in this region, since it is such a big challenge for us. But it’s also a big challenge, really, for every every industrialized country, every country with industrialized agriculture, or, you know, intensive animal, animal feeding animal husbandry kind of operations. So, you know, we really, we really think there’s an opportunity here for us to establish leadership as a region around this area. Well, the majority of the people that listen to this podcast are in the water treatment industry. So you have an audience of water treaters, what do you want to say to them? So the thing that I would say to folks that are working really, in the water industry is, I mean, two things, I guess, the first would be to consider innovation and invest in innovation. I think the the level of expertise that we have in the United States in our water industry, is really incredible. And there are lots of folks who have decades of experience that are working in this space. But sometimes that can mean that we have a tendency to think that we know all the answers to everything already. And I really encourage folks to think about the possibilities, don’t shut out innovation as something that’s unnecessary or a waste of time, because it really can, you know, disrupt an improved process. The other thing that I would say to folks that are engaged in water is to reach out to non water people. That’s been really one of our most positive experiences through these competitions is the impact that having water experts talk to other kinds of experts can have on those folks perception of water. In particular, having water experts interact with people in the broader technology community really starts to help us bridge the gap between innovation as a pure kind of abstract concept and innovation as something that can really impact our communities, and water as a focus of innovation. You know, a lot of people that get involved in entrepreneurship, in the startup world in the technology world, don’t think about water as an opportunity or a focus area. And particularly in regions like the Great Lakes region where we have such amazing water resources. That’s a narrative that we really are trying to shift and I think are making great progress. And I think how that really happens is folks that are professional in the water industry, taking some of their challenges or their understandings of the issues to other experts and helping those other experts understand where the opportunities might be for entrepreneurship, for innovation to plug in. The last thing I would say is that collaboration really isn’t just a buzzword, there’s a lot of opportunity that can be capitalized on. If our water industry folks start to reach out and make connections with the research ecosystems around them, the NGOs in their region, as well as, of course, the private sector industry partners, there’s a lot that we can do together and really the scope of the problems that we face, you know, we believe I believe in waterlines, that’s really the only way that we can address them is through collaboration and working together. So if someone wants to find out more about the Cleveland water Alliance, what should they do? So you can find out more about us at Cleveland water alliance.org. We’ve got a pretty, pretty nice website that our communications team has been working a lot on that overviews, you know, all of our program areas, and talks a lot about things like the Erie hack, like the smart Citizen Science Initiative, like our work around nutrient monitoring, which we’re calling the smart Lake initiative. That’s a great a great kind of starting point. But especially for folks, you know, within the Lake Erie region, we encourage you to reach out, you know, we’re really trying to get as many people that are touching the water and technology space under one umbrella so that we can have these conversations together. And of course, for folks more nationally, you can find us at some of the major conferences weftec we’re always at Ace we’re always at find us at the innovation pavilion or wherever they say wherever the word innovation is hanging up in the air. That’s where you’ll find us. Well, let me ask for those out of the Lake Erie region, where can people go to look and find local clusters to them? That’s a great question. So there isn’t currently you know, a common resource that overviews all of the all of the existing clusters previously, the Federal EPA had a program that kind of kept track of and supported all of the clusters across the country. But that that program has been defunct now for a couple of years has been kind of absorbed into WEF. So there’s not an easy resource to seek out your local cluster right now, what I would say is that, you could certainly do a little googling locally. Yeah, that’s really the best I can give right now. There is not like a common website for clusters. Fair enough. Max, let’s just say that somebody just joined us in the interview right now, what’s the one thing that you want to make sure you get across, I’d say the one thing I want to get across is that Cleveland water Alliance is focused on, you know, identifying common opportunities for folks engaged in the water industry, to collaborate around and drive innovation, drive economic development, and drive improved environmental quality. We’re doing this work around the lake erie region. But there are lots of folks engaged in across the nation. And I cannot encourage folks in the water industry enough to really take a cross sector approach to how they address some of their issues, and to engage with folks like us at the Cleveland waterlines to help support those efforts. Well, Max, we really appreciate you sharing information about the Cleveland water Alliance, we’ll be sure to have more information on our show notes page. But before I let you go, I asked the same set of questions to each one of my guests. So are you ready for the lightning round? Let’s do it. Alright, so you now have the ability to go back in time and speak with yourself the very first day you started at the Cleveland water Alliance, what advice would you give yourself, just keep listening. That’s, that’s the best thing. One of the really exciting things about being involved with an organization like Cleveland water Alliance, is I get to talk to people who are smarter than me every day. And I get to talk to people, a lot of different kinds of people who are smarter than me in a lot of different ways. And so I get to listen to our utility partners, obviously, who know about treatment systems in a way that whenever the depth that I’ll never fully understand, to watershed organizations that helped me understand kind of dynamics of managing these resources, and engaging with communities to talk to researchers who dive deep into the science and understand these early stage developing technologies. And I think really just being able to listen, and try and understand each person’s perspective, at a high level is really, really valuable in trying to, you know, really engage with the water space, because it’s such a deep and varied space, with a lot of real wealth of knowledge in there. One of the last few books that you’ve read, the book that I just finished, was the killer angels, that book about Gettysburg, not really tied to water at all, but it was a very interesting read for sure. The last one is, if you can talk to anybody throughout history, who would it be with and why? I’d be really interested. I mean, there’d have to be some translation involved, but really interested to talk to some, I don’t have a specific person in mind, but to talk to some of the people in like the Roman empire that established some of the first water management systems to just understand from their perspective, you know, what incentivize the creation of these systems. I think it’s sometimes you know, folks in the water industry, it’s easy for us to overlook how absolutely incredible it is that we have these vast systems of pipes and, you know, incredible infrastructure that’s been put in place over centuries, and manages these incredible volumes of water. And I’d be really interested to get kind of inside the head of the first people who started to think about moving this resource around in that way. Yeah, I love your line of thinking. That’s a great answer. Well, Max, I really want to thank you for coming on scaling up h2o. I know a lot of people have questions about what they can do, how they can get involved, and even what the Cleveland waterlines is, and now they know they can even look for more clusters, maybe even more local to them. I think you’ve helped quite a few people today. Thanks so much for sharing your time. Of course, thanks for having me on. This is great. nation, I hope you’re now thinking about getting involved locally with an organization that needs your help and your expertise. As I mentioned on the top of the show, when you get involved at that level, you’re getting involved directly with people that can use your service. Let me stress to you do not get involved for the purpose of finding new business. Let that be a byproduct of why you get involved. If you get involved Because you want to share your expertise, then I promise you, the business will come. But those organizations are normally full with people that just want to sell their wares. And if you get in there with that mindset, you’re going to be just one and 100 people, and you’re going to get looked over, go in there with the mindset that you are going to help that organization do what they need help with. Folks, we’re down to our last month of 2020. I don’t think it’s going to be hard for 2021 to be better than 2020. But there’s no reason to say goodbye to 2020 yet, what push Do you need to give yourself to make sure you’re ending 2020? Right. Now, I’ve talked earlier about a book we’ve read in the rising tide mastermind called the 12 week here, and essentially what that does, that breaks up the year into 412 week years, for the purpose of what we’re getting ready to witness here in December. Most of our goals get most of our work completed in December, because that’s when we realize we’re running out of time to get things done. So what the 12 week year does is it says let’s take advantage of that four times every year. And instead of having 12 months to do a goal, let’s make it a shorter goal. And now we only have 12 weeks. For all that aside, we now have December, what do you need to get done in order to make sure you end 2020 correctly, whatever that is, I urge you to tell someone, folks, that’s an accountability partner. That’s what we do in the rising tide mastermind. We hold each other accountable to get things done. And I will tell you for a fact that I have done things, not because it was the best time to do them, not because I wanted to do them at that time. Now I should have done them because they were the most important. But I would have kicked that can down the road had it not been for somebody else and one of the groups that I’m a member of holding me accountable. And I knew that I was going to have to go to that meeting and tell them whether I got it done or not. That was enough of a push for me not to let other people down, that I decided to rise up out of the day to day to work on the day to day and get that item done. And of course once it was done, that affected all the rest of the day to day and made everything else a little bit easier. But folks, I get it, it is so hard to get out of our regular routine. And if we don’t have that little nudge to kick us up out of that we are not normally able to do that ourselves. So tell somebody, make them hold you accountable. You hold them accountable. And that’s a great way to ensure that you’re going to end 2020 right, folks, I’m also going to ask you to send me your show ideas. We are planning for 2021 we’ve got a lot of it already planned out. But we could still use your show ideas, your questions who you want me to interview in 2021 so please don’t keep that to yourself. Let me know what you need from scaling up h2o and we will do our best to accommodate that and something we are trying to do to help out the scaling up nation to help out the water treatment community is we are hosting a another hang on December 10 at 6pm. Eastern Time, the hang is where we all get together on a zoom call. And then you go into your separate breakout rooms of about five people where you can introduce yourself and figure out how each other can help each other and potentially meet a new friend. Folks, this is a lonely industry and events like this allow you to meet new people within the water treatment community and you never know who that person is going to be. That can help you with your next issue. So go to scaling up h2o dot com forward slash hangs so you can register for the event. And then I will see you December 10 at 6pm Eastern Time, folks, Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you have a great December of course I will be coming back at you next week the first Friday of December. Until the meantime, have a great rest of your weekend. Your holiday weekend. Have a safe next week.

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