179 Transcript

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is provided and copied from YouTube, grammar and mistakes are present.

today’s episode is proudly sponsored by

radical polymers nation running a

water treatment business is hard dealing

with your suppliers

shouldn’t be and when i deal with the

fine folks

over at radical polymers i have always

felt like i have had a partner they

test things in the environment that we

are going

to use their products they also make

sure that if i have

any questions that i get the answer that


am looking for mike and the fine folks

over at radical polymers

answer the phones folks when was the

last time you

actually talked with somebody when you

had a technical support

question well they make your issues


issues and they get right down to the


they offer best in class technologies

with the

first class support that i just


go to scaling up h2o.com forward slash

radical to find out more


welcome to scaling up the podcast where

we scale up on our knowledge so we don’t

scale up

our systems my name is trace blackmore i

get to host this awesome podcast

and folks i am so excited about

this show i’ve got a guest that so many


have asked me to re-interview many

people have taken part in her

study and learned how to communicate

better with others but before i get to

introducing her i’d like to introduce

james mcdonald with another installment


james’s challenge


hello scaling up nation james mcdonald


and you know what that means it’s time

for another james’s challenge

to help you grow as an industrial water

treatment professional

drop by drop james’s challenge for the




send handwritten notes to those who have

helped you

okay you may be asking yourself how will

writing a note help me be

a better industrial water treatment

professional i’m here to tell you it

absolutely will in the electronic age we

live in

having someone actually take the time to

sit down and hand write a note to you

has real meaning it wasn’t a quick email

text or message it was a focused

personal message

from you to them it will form genuine

bonds that solidify your relationships

with those around you

even more just give it a try one try

please consider sharing your experience

on linkedin tagging it with hashtag jc21

and hashtag scalinguph2o i really look

forward to hearing how this goes

thanks james a nation if you are not


your progress with these challenges i

urge you to do so it motivates us all

it holds us all accountable it just

makes the whole process a little bit

more fun

you’ve got two hashtags to go to for

that you got hashtag

jc21 as in james’s challenge

and then of course hashtag scaling up

h2o folks we have another hang

that we are doing with the industrial

water treatment community

so many people have joined us on these


what is a hang how do you not know what

a hang is if you listen to this show

well maybe it’s your first time it’s

it’s okay we will let you know what the

hang is and what a hang is

it’s where we get together on a virtual


we do a couple of fun things we break up

into small breakout rooms where you get

to network with people in your industry

folks this will start on february 11th

exactly at 6 00 pm eastern time

it will go for one hour and then after

that one hour

you will have new connections that you

can reach out to

and learn new things in the water

treatment industry

i urge you to put that on your calendar

once again that’s february 11th at 6 00


eastern time if you want to register for

that you can go to

scaling up h2o.com forward slash hang

and all the information you ever wanted

to know about the hang

is right there folks last year i had the

honor of

interviewing kathleen edelman

kathleen wrote a book called i said this

you heard that matter of fact it’s a

workbook and it’s

meant for you to go through and evaluate

how you communicate folks i have to tell

you i never

really gave that much thought on how i


but once i started understanding the

work that she did

it allowed me to realize why

misunderstandings took place i was

always speaking from

my lens and i wasn’t necessarily


from theirs and i know you all know that


don’t go very many episodes without

talking about the seven habits of highly

effective people

but the seven habits does a great job of

allowing us to realize

that we all look within ourselves for

our own frame of reference

and then that frame of reference is how

we speak to others

well guess what others have different

frames of references because they’ve had

other experiences what kathleen

does that is so exciting that has been

so helpful to me

is she teaches us how to use words

so we can better communicate with others

even without

knowing their frames of references

so if you have not listened to my

original interview with kathleen edelman

that was episode

117 since that episode aired i had so

many people in the scaling up nation

thank me

for introducing kathleen to them

many people went and purchased her


and did that study with themselves with

their families

with their businesses and i’ve just

received some

great feedback from that now if you want

her workbook and after listening to her

episode today

most likely you cannot wait to get it


i was when i first heard her speak but

we created an affiliate link

scaling up h2o.com forward slash i said

you heard now it’s not a prerequisite to

get the workbook or listen to the

episode before you listen to this


but i will tell you if you have not

listened to the first episode again

that’s episode

117 i think some of the things we talk

about will make even

more sense so just a little note to the

scaling up nation

now nation i’m going to get right to our

interview here

is kathleen edelman scaled up nation i

am so

excited to introduce my next guest

we had her on last year episode

117 and so many people out in the

scaling up nation

commented on how this was a tool they

wish they had before

this was a tool that had helped them


language to get over the barriers that

we have in communication

and i have been so excited for this


my guest is kathleen edelman kathleen

thank you so much for coming on

again to scaling up h2o thank you

for having me you know i love love love

to talk about this topic

and especially with people who are as

passionate as you about getting the

message out

well you and i were talking a little bit

before we started recording and i wanted


share with the scaled up nation because

they know i am a huge seven habits of

highly effective people

fan and somebody gave me that book as a


when i was 19 years old and that was

just a huge

gift i didn’t realize how huge but it’s

helped me so much

and habits four five and six or think


seek first to understand and have it six


i’ve been trying to do that my entire


and there was just something missing i

didn’t know

what was missing but then i was

introduced to the work that you did on


and that’s what it was thank you

for the work and i just can’t wait to to

get into this conversation again

interesting let me start with a question

what do you think was your biggest


from the i said this you heard that book

that filled that void that we all speak

and we listen differently i i want to

say i understood that but i didn’t

really i would think the words that were

coming out of my mouth

were the exact way that people were

hearing it and

a lot of times i would change my tone

and that really didn’t change anything

or maybe i would change

a word here or there to try to better

explain something

but i was always in my lens and the

funny thing with that is the seven

habits talks about

paradigms and getting in the other

person’s point of view

i didn’t have a tool to get there and

that’s what this provided for me

excellent that is exactly what it’s

there for

is to learn to look through a different

lens and love other people better

through the words you use that are


most miscommunication is not intentional

and i have to say one of my favorite

things that you say

that so describes what you do so well

is the words you use are a gift

that you give to other people exactly

that to me is the art of communication

communication to most people is just


but you can literally talk to yourself

in a room

all day long the next step from talking

is communicating

which is the exchange of thoughts and


where i want people to get is the art of


that each word that comes out of your


is a gift to the person that you’re

speaking to

because that’s what we’re responsible

for we’re responsible to help

each other bring out the best in each

other so when you do that

starting with yourself speaking

words intentionally that make you the


version of yourself what’s your

self-talk saying

so you want to be talking to your


and managing your weaknesses and being

authentically the best version of


because what we do know is you cannot

give what you don’t have

so you have to first even start with

this communication is

understanding your wiring and why

you use the words you do and what is

your core motivator to do the things you


and then understand that other people

may be wired differently and each of


people under the temperaments speak

their own language

so we want to honor that by

understanding and speaking

fluently the other languages that aren’t

your own

when you were here on episode 117 you

did a great job

outlining what the temperaments are but

there are probably some people that are


that either haven’t listened to that

episode in a while or they have not

listened to that episode so

i want to do a very brief overview of

what the temperaments are can you help

us with that

absolutely because what we know right

out of the gate

is temperament is not personality

so temperament has been around for over

2000 years

um what hippocrates studied was he

studied how people

naturally responded to different

situations and he

started to put those into categories

well those categories

landed into four different squares or


and in about 60 a.d they were

named by another doctor dr

gallon and the greek names can be a

mouthful but they are

choleric sanguine melancholy and


so these are the roots in temperament

and this is what every personality

assessment that’s out there

spins off of is this root

study of the temperaments by hippocrates

so each of those four temperaments

has descriptions that you can

if you just listen to the words i use

colors and i said this you heard that


so we matched sanguine with yellow

choleric with red melancholy with blue

and phlagmatic is green

so we’re going to be interchanging those

colors and names

but the sanguine and the choleric are


this does not mean in communication that

they like to be around a lot of people

what it means is their thoughts and

emotions go outward

these people have no filter they say

what’s on their mind

they talk before they think the

melancholy and the phlagmatic

are introverts this means that they

think before they talk again this has

nothing to do in communication about the

amount of people they want to be around

this means that they have to process

before they communicate

again they’ll think before they talk

so right then you’re starting to think

what is my core motivating or when i

am going to communicate something the


category is the cholera and the

melancholy are

task oriented people these people want

to accomplish something they want to

produce something

they want to get things done they are

going to be

doers instead of connectors

the yellow the sanguine and the


are people-oriented people so they

they want to connect with somebody they

want a relationship

they’re always going to pick people over

a task

so when you’re looking at this

information i just gave you

it’s so important in communication

because if you have anybody in your life

that’s a green

that is an introvert that likes to be

around people

so right now if we take the social cues

of what we’ve been told that’s confusing

to us

but we have to know that in order to

understand that person better

so when you do an assessment of trying

to find out gosh how am i wired

you have a dominant and a secondary

temperament and it’s

usually when you see a chart like in the


this will make sense when you look at it

it’ll be horizontal or vertical

usually never diagonal so the diagonals

would be a red and a green

or a blue and a yellow so we want to

make sure that we understand our wiring

how hippocrates does it because each one

of those temperaments

not only are extrovert introvert people


but they have all kinds of strengths and

weaknesses that are unique to them

so the yellow is an inspiring


what’s unique to them is they’re so good

at seeing the best in people they’re in

the moment

but they can interrupt they can be


they can be loud they can be obnoxious

where the choleric this is a driven

person this is a person that delegates

well wakes up

wanting to get things accomplished

excels in emergencies

what’s unique to that red is their

ability to see

a vision and get things done but this

person can also be bossy or impatient

or even arrogant the blue this is a

person who’s analytical they’re logical

but they’re also creative

and musical what’s unique to the blue is

their ability to see

obstacles between a and b

where the red can see b so clearly the

blue can see

every obstacle up to the b

then there’s the green this person is

well let me go back to the blue from it

let’s not put by that they can be moody

or judgmental or critical as well um i

happen to be a blue so of course i

went right past our weaknesses and then

the green this person

is so innately kind they are

great listeners great leaders of people

where the red is a great leader of tasks

this person’s unique in the fact that

they are the calm in the midst of chaos

so they can really just help people

encourage people

but they also can be unenthusiastic

hard to get moving have no sense of


so as you start seeing the different

things and the temperaments and

understanding the foundation

now we can build and understand why

they each speak their own language and

learn to paradigm shift or

look through a different lens so we can

give grace

and understand which words to choose the

words you use are the words you choose

so we want to make sure we’re choosing

right words that the other person can


kathleen where we left off back on

episode 117 we did a great job

i say we you did a great job of


what the temperaments were how we start


understand them what i would love to do


is with that understanding how do we use

them how do we use them as as you say

we put the oxygen mask on so we can help


first now we can have that pause when we

see the

conversation isn’t going the way we

think it should be going

things words aren’t getting heard the

way we mean them

first off what’s a good way to realize

that that’s happening

and instead of keep digging the whole

deeper okay i need to stop i need to

think through a different lens

so how do i do and what do i do i guess

is what i’m saying

well first we have to go back and we

have to understand that most

people listen to respond or react

they listen to reply instead of

listening to understand so our first

thing in communication with any


is you have to listen to understand what

the person’s saying to you

so now that your listeners know a little

bit about

temperament let’s let them know you’re


correct i am yes when in fact when we


talking i asked you what my secondary

color was

you smiled and laughed and said you

don’t have one

yeah yeah i don’t even know if you have

a drip of one but it’s here somewhere

so my dominant one my dominant

temperament’s blue

so let’s put this scenario together for

your listeners

when you talk you talk

out of a red lens if you and i are

talking you’re going to talk out of that

red lens but i’m going to

listen out of my blue lens so

100 of communication lands on the


okay you can be very careful with your

words but the words have to match what i

can hear

so you speak out of red i hear out of


i’m going to respond i most likely react


we’ll talk about that too out of blue

and you’re gonna hear

in red so what i’m trying to do

with the i said this you heard that is

i’m trying to eliminate that gray area

in between that

conversation because again most

miscommunication isn’t intentional

you came into that conversation with me

not trying to be mean or rude or have


but i hear in blue so i

my words are literally different than

the words that you speak

so what we want to do is we want to be

very aware

if you say something that i perceive has

a tone

or it’s harsh or it seems like you’re

giving me an

order which would be very common between

you and i

you’re thinking well she just needed to

know you know i had to give her the


it’s not like you’re intentionally

trying to be mean right but i

hear it as why is he yelling at me you

know why is he have that tone

so there’s immediate conflict between

you and i

because it’s coming in not as a blue


so what i want you to do what i want

everybody to do is

pause before they talk so the how the

latter goes is

you find out your temperament you first

and foremost have to accept your


then you have to be aware of it what

language do i speak how do i

speak to different people how do they

hear me

how do i learn their languages then the

next part is what you’re talking about

is application and as you apply it and

immerse yourself in it you become

fluent in the other temperaments and


that lands in authenticity you become

authentically yourself

and you’re giving other people grace to

be their authentic self

so let’s go back to our scenario if you

wanted to eliminate the gray area you


know first of all you would want to take

the time to try to

listen to understand so you would hear

what words i speak

most likely i’m going to say things like

planning or

strategy or that needs no we really want

to be more compassionate or thoughtful

to that person

i’m literally gonna speak blue words

so that now you have identified me as

a blue temperament so when you come in

to talk to me i want you to pause

i want you to take off your red lens

and put on a blue lens and whatever you

were going to say

it’s going to look differently now so

instead of maybe we’re in a work

scenario and you come in and you

come right in my office maybe and you

say kathleen that report has to be

in my office by four o’clock okay

you’ve already thought about it that

it’s really important and that’s the

deadline and that’s just factual

it came in to me as a direct hit

of doesn’t he think i can get this done

doesn’t he see that i’m working

you know what why would he do because

blue’s immediately what

remember we said earlier go inward i’m

kind of thinking what did i do wrong

so let’s go back and redo that scenario

you’re going to come to the office door

and you’re first foremost going to knock

because blues do not like to be

interrupted when they’re working

and i say oh come on in you would say


i really want to you know be sensitive

to your time frame

and i just found out that that report

that you’re working on

which i can help you in any way i can

has to be turned in by four o’clock is

there anything i can do to help or are

you on track with that

and i’m going to go no i’m good in fact

i’ll be done at 3 30.

so do you see the difference in how it

was approached

there is an absolute difference there

but i can’t help but thinking

i’ve had a lifetime of learning how to

speak through my red lens and how

difficult it is to shift

yes it’s very difficult to shift but you

have to realize that if we

just take the time to be intentional

the reward is so much greater

because when you talk to a person and

number one

they can hear you and they feel so much


known and understood and loved

they now have something to give because

the most important thing that separates

me from personality

assessments is the innate needs

which maybe your listeners have to

review i mean

if they don’t know them so let me tell

them really quickly

the yellow the sanguine is attention

approval acceptance and affection

the red is loyalty sense of control

appreciation and credit for work

the melancholy the blue is safety

sensitivity support and space and


in the green is harmony feeling of worth

lack of stress and respect

these are key key key to what i teach in


because you are even when you were a

little guy

you were trying to fill loyalty

appreciation credit for work okay

you subconsciously that’s your core


so we have to understand that

everybody’s working off those core


so when you put communication in there

it is like four people speaking four

different languages so

we want to make sure that we’re using a


that builds that person up according to

their needs

because remember we said in the first

episode everything

i teach is off what i think is one of

the best

outlines in communication there is do

not let any unwholesome words come out

of your mouth

only what builds others up according to

their needs and benefit all who listen

so when i’m thinking of you and i’m

coming in

i know i want to show you loyalty i want

to show you appreciation

credit for work and sense of control

so i’m going to come in and as much as i

want to give you details because i’m


i know that’s not how you hear

so i’m going to say hey here’s the

bullets points

this has to be done this is what was

asked for and the bottom line is four


if you have any questions i’ll be in my

office how does that sound to you

i would connect with that immediately


but that’s not how i talk so i want i’m

trying to

honor the way you’re designed so that

you can hear what i’m saying and it gets

rid of that gray area

kathleen i can tell you as i have been

trying to practice this and and again i


being able to tell myself okay the words

that i choose to use

are the gifts that i’m giving the person

who’s listening that has helped me so


but i’ll also say i don’t always have

that mental conversation before i speak

and then i realize i just went into this

blues office

and i’ve been speaking for the past five

minutes in

my red lens and now i’ve created

something that didn’t need to be created

what do i do then

yeah well always first of all second of

all third of all

i’m all about the revisit because

i’ve been doing this for over three


and i still my train still goes off the

track once in a while

because you know we’re just humans so we

are going to make mistakes

but here’s the thing if your train goes

off the track

and you realize it there’s nothing wrong

with the revisit

it’s circling back around and saying

kathleen i just realized i barged right

into your office

and you were working and i want to be

sensitive to that

so i apologize or you can say

you know if there’s a conflict you can

say kathleen i really see that we’re off

i think it was something i said what

could i have said differently

or how could i have said that

differently there’s

two activities in the book that i think

are crucial

each temperament has their own strengths

and their own weaknesses that they have

to deal with

when you identify if you are in your


you are not going to most likely be

speaking kindly to the person in front

of you

so we’re trying to get to the point

where we’re

constantly functioning out of our


so the first step we have to do here is

we have to identify when we’re

in our weaknesses if i’m being moody

when i go to work

or i come home that is not me and my

strengths that’s me and my weaknesses

so i have to say i have a tendency to be


what does this circumstance require of


and i have to replace it with a strength

i have a tendency to be moody

but i’m going to choose to be


or it can be i have a tendency to be

moody i have to choose to be logical

for you it might be i have a tendency to

be impatient

but i’m going to delegate well in this


a yellow might say i have a tendency to

interrupt but i’m going to show

curiosity the green might say i have a

tendency to be unenthusiastic but i’m

going to listen well

in this certain circumstance so then

once we’re

learning to live out of our strengths


then we have to understand the second

most important activity is

what part did i play and what could i

have said

or done differently and that’s what

you’re asking yourself

you’ve been working over here on your

strengths and weaknesses

you see there was a blip you want to say

to yourself

what part did i just play there and what

could i have said or done differently

and sometimes it’s asking the person and

most of the time you know

what you did kathleen everything you


depends on us being able to identify

what color the person we’re speaking to

is and you do that a lot better than

i do what advice do you have for all of

us to be

able to identify people better okay

this is probably the question i get the

most because

personality assessments are usually

set up to know all about yourself when

you understand temperaments

it takes it to the next level because

you know you’ll be able to identify

and honor how you’re wired but it really


more about understanding the other


so when we spoke about the strengths and


and we spoke about the innate needs

those are two things that are going to

be like

cheat sheets for you to learn to become

fluent in another language

but again that first part starts with


to understand so what i would love

people to do of course is get the book

and read

over all the different temperaments

because literally how i wrote that was

to be

an initial cheat sheet for you if you

read through all the strengths and

weaknesses of

a blue again you and i are friends so

you want to know

maybe you don’t know me yet but you you

have read through and you’ve seen all

the strengths and weaknesses

and you see safety sensitivity support

i guarantee a blue

is going to use the words right off

those charts

those words were chosen in intentionally

they’re not on their w

willy-nilly they’re on there because

that’s the words that blues connect with

the same with all the other temperaments

so if i

read through again for you all the red


and all the red weaknesses and your

innate needs i can literally start to


because i can hear those words you’re

going to say things like

well if nobody’s going to take charge

i’m going to take charge

well you know it really this work has to

get done

what’s the bottom line or you’ll say

something like you know what he didn’t

have my back

so that’s on him okay

if you listen to those statements they


are all read statements because they’re

using words

right off the red charts you were

looking for control and remember for the

reds i want to put a little thing in


this is really important to me there’s a

difference between

having control in a sense of control

when a red is in their weakness they

want control

and power but their innate need is a

sense of control

and i’m going to ask you a question do

you always want to be in charge

i will fill a void if i need to

but i am at my best when somebody else

is uh is doing what they’re supposed to


exactly so sense of control

to a red means that you are doing what

you were asked to do

you’re pulling your weight and you’re

doing what your unique gift is

now if a red walks into the room and

those that isn’t happening they’re the

first to take charge

so again it’s it’s reading those innate

needs understanding them

and then listening to her if you have if

you just said that statement you just


i would know immediately that you’re a

red because in that

exact scenario if i walked in

and people weren’t doing what they were

supposed to do

i would not think oh i’m gonna take


i would think i have to go find out

who’s in charge here

that would be my first thought it

certainly wouldn’t be me taking charge

because i would be fearful to step up

because i don’t know what the details

are of what they’re trying to accomplish

and i wouldn’t want to make mess it up

do you see

so lis looking through those words

listening to understand

watching how um a person’s even behavior

or stature is

you know you can watch behavior where

again a red or a yellow will walk in the

room most likely they don’t

they won’t go and just sit down they’re

looking at the room

a blue or green walks into the room

they’ll immediately find a chair and sit


because they have to analyze is this a

safe place

is this some place where i’m really

going to be able to speak up or i’m

going to be

you know they’re both going to be

nervous so it’s watching

behavior it’s listening to words it’s

reading the cheat sheets in the book

and then taking that pause

before you talk and flipping those words

before they come out of your mouth

kathleen during a previous conversation

we had you used a

castle metaphor to explain that could do

you mind doing that for us now

sure i love the castle metaphor because

it you know it came up when i was

working with children because

children just so you know a little side

note children

get the temperament so much faster than


because children are so pure in their


until the world starts telling them


so they’ll walk right in my office and

go oh yeah they’ll look at the chart and

i’ll talk to them a little bit and

they’ll go oh yeah i’m red

they’ll just accept it they’ll be like

yeah i’m red oh yeah no i’m yellow

oh my mom’s this or my dad’s this i love

i love how pure kids are

but one of the scenarios i use with them


imagine going into a castle and all the


temperaments are in the horse-drawn

wagon and they get

up to the drawn bridge right then you’re

gonna see the difference because the

reds gonna go

we’re going right in the front door

we’re gonna see what this is all about

the blue’s gonna go uh oh no you’re i’m

gonna go around the side

and see if there’s an another door

because i don’t

know if it’s safe i want to be able to

get out

and the yellow and green is going to go

the yellow’s going to go hey follow me

let’s go see if there’s any people here

they’re going to go around the other

side to see who lives there and

what’s going on so each one in front of

that castle is going to do exactly

how they’re wired to do and the green’s

going to go with yellow to see if

there’s people

kathleen again you had years of practice

and and i’m just getting started

so let’s say i try to use what you just

taught me

and i think that you are green

and i’m now using green words to speak

to you

and it’s not going well so did i make

the matter even worse because i

i tried to give you a gift in a color

that was not you no because you were

doing that

when you were talking to me in red


i i never thought of it that way yeah

you’re just speak instead of speaking

french now you’re speaking german

and i speak spanish i mean it’s just

it’s now just another language is coming

into me

kathleen i have to tell you that was

huge a light bulb went off

in my head and i i’ve never

looked at what we’ve been practicing for

a year and a half together that way that

was a huge statement thank you for that

yeah yeah because that’s exactly it and

here’s the thing

is that again you’re going to make

mistakes until you become fluent

right and that’s why i want you first

and foremost to have grace on yourself

because it does take time to be fluent

in a language

it does take time to you know learn

how to love another person better

according to their needs

here’s the thing the one thing that all

the temperaments share

is selfishness and i think if you were

to ask me what’s the biggest

obstacle of of becoming fluent

that’s it we’ve got to learn to get out

of our

own way this isn’t necessarily an

easy journey what i love about what i

teach is it’s so

simple and it’s easy but it takes


and it takes intentionality and

the thing is if you become selfish and

you go well what about

my need for safety or what about my need


you know sensitivity okay the minute i


there i’ve went from a servant’s heart

to selfishness and there’s no way when

i’m being selfish

that i can love you better as a human


so i first and foremost have to get out

of my own way

that’s why it’s really important for you

to know your innate needs

remember at the very beginning of our

conversation we talked about self-talk

i am first and foremost responsible

to love myself and how i’m designed

not in an arrogant way but in an

honoring way

because it’s in my strengths is where

i’m going to find my calling

so i have to speak kind words to myself

live in my strengths honor my innate


so that i have something to give another


i don’t want to have to depend on

another person

to fill those needs for me so

meaning i am 100 myself i happen to be

married i’ve been married for again

over three decades my husband

is not responsible for my happiness

he’s on this journey with me it’s 100

me 100 him so

when he fills sensitivity or

safety or support for me it’s like

icing on the cake then if my children do

it it’s like sprinkles on the icing

but the person that’s most responsible

for being the best version of me

is me so that’s where we have to start

and that’s where you’re going to realize

was i being selfish

or was i really taking the time to speak

words to lift another person up

and if i was wrong with that let me find

out how they’re wired

let me try that again so that i can make


i’m i’m doing it right and where you’re

gonna have grace on yourself

sometimes people don’t know themselves

this person could have been masking

green and you did it exactly right

and there’s a conflict within that


so you know those are the kind of things

that we just don’t see coming so we just

have to do the best we can

kathleen as you alluded to earlier i

am a red and i remember when

i first started going through your work

and i started reading the weaknesses

i didn’t necessarily see those as

weaknesses and i don’t mean that

i don’t mean that badly but i just i

just saw those and that that kind of

just seemed like how i was

so after my team did the temperament

examinations and we were revealing

to each other what our temperaments were

and i said well i’m a red and they all

kind of laughed and said well how could

you not know that

well you know how funny that is to me

right now because

we we just are filming

for the second book and on the second

part of the filming i interviewed

34 children and every time one of those


was a red child that’s exactly

what everybody said like when they got

up from the set they were like

that guy was definitely red or that girl

was definitely right how can you not see


because again a red is so

it’s an extrovert that’s task oriented

that has no fear this is a warrior

that’s out there this person we need

reds because

they are willing to step out before they

even know

if there’s a bridge you know they will

fight for people

so this is a very strong and powerful


but what i know i told you at the

beginning when we met

is you have a high power bar

but when we met those that power bart

was edgy

and that’s what causes the fear of other


of a red all i want you to do as reds

and the reds out there is not to pull

down your power bar

but to soften your edges so when i say


this is so important that you said that


two things one when reds come into my


i wish i could say you were unique but

your kind of textbook

and the fact that when pete reds come in

my office they say one of two things

they either say i don’t want to be read

or they circle all the weaknesses and


i don’t see any weaknesses and that’s my


exactly and it’s one of the two all the


so here’s the thing this is what i want

to change

i want the reds to be aware

of how their weaknesses affect other


just like all the other temperaments


remember the second step in what i said

it was acceptance awareness

application and authenticity

that red stumbles in the awareness part

to the point where the reds have an

issue with tone and volume

just like when i said earlier if you

came in barging in my office i would say

why are you yelling at me

and your response most likely would be

i’m not yelling at you

i’m just telling you what needs to get

done but your

tone and volume to me literally sounded

like you were yelling at me

so the red the awareness

is so critical to put

humility into communication

here’s what i want to change for the

reds because this is

really just heavy on my heart when all

through these decades

when people describe the temperaments

most of the temperaments are described

in their strengths

so they’ll say oh yellows are so funny

they’re fun to be

with blues are thoughtful they’re

so um compassionate greens are so

kind so easy going reds

they’re bossy they’re impatient

i mean to me my heart drops when people

do that

or you say you’re red and people roll

their eyes

i’ve had that you’ve had that i’m sure i

don’t like that

that’s not okay with me because reds


so much to the table that that’s not

okay with me so it’s two ways one is the


has to understand and be aware

that their weaknesses are weaknesses

there’s a difference between

arguing and debating or negotiating

there is a difference between volume

and just communicating so

being aware of those weaknesses that’s

on you

me having grace for you and looking for

the best

see in any relationship you will find

what you’re looking for

so if i’m looking at my friend you

that is red i want to constantly

be looking for that person that excels

in emergencies that gets things done


driven that would have my back that

would fight for me

and so when you come in and you may have

a tone maybe you’re in a hurry and you

you didn’t realize it

that’s when i can have grace for you

because i know you’re not doing that


do you see that that’s huge so it’s


just both ways all the time kathleen

i’ve worked with a lot of people

that have also done your study and

something that i’ve

noticed is some people will use

their color as an excuse well i can’t do

that because i’m yellow i can’t do that


i’m red i don’t think that’s your

intention of what your work was for

no even you saying that makes the hair

go up on the back of my neck

because i always stress is

once you know this information we never

ever ever there’s never a reason to use

your temperament

as a weapon or as an excuse

ever there’s never a reason to do that

when people are are choosing to do that

i think they’re caught unfortunately in

the personality realm

because there’s another thing that you

just brought up that i want to clarify

even though there’s four temperaments

this is

not labeling or putting somebody in a


so if i’m speaking at an event or

something like that

usually somebody will say well i don’t

want to be put in the box a box

i’m telling you right now nine out of

ten times that’s a red telling me that

and because they don’t want to be told

what to do but the fact that they even

said that

statement makes me know that they’re red

so you are automatically going to put


in the category of how you’re wired

but we have to remember the temperament

never changes remember temperament never


personality can change because


is the what it’s the behavior you’re

doing where temperament is the why

you’re doing that behavior

so once you understand the temperament

and you know you’re not going to change

what i have to have people understand is

we’re all thriving and trying to live in

our strengths

yellows do not own funny

reds do not own leadership

blues do not own strategy

greens do not own kindness

every single temperament can be a good


can be a strategist can be funny

can be kind every temperament

has the capability of doing those


but they’re going to do it through the


of their temperament how you lead

or how you have humor is going to look

different than how i lead and

my sense of humor but we both have

access to all those strengths once we

master our own so are you put in a box

only if you keep yourself there master

your own

and then knock yourself out to learn the

strengths of the others

because that’s what we’re trying to do

jesus was the strengths of

all the temperaments in scripture it


we are on this earth to represent him

and to do our best to be christ-like

so that’s what we’re trying to do is

we’re trying to

be the strengths of how god honored us

to be

and then learn the strengths of the

others i haven’t never really met in 30

years anybody who’s really mastered

their own and can go into the other


but what i’m trying to get the point

across here is

we do not put labels on people

and and for example when we were talking

about identifying other people

if somebody said oh he that person’s so


they’re yellow oh that person’s such

good leader

they’re read that would not that’s not

what i teach

that’s exactly the opposite of what i


you have to listen to how they’re


the most most comedians in the world are


so you have to be very careful about

how the words are that are coming out

of the person you’re talking to or the

person you’re standing in front of

kathleen last time when we did our

interview on

episode 117 i did not ask you

the lightning round question so are you

buckled in are you

ready for the lightning round i am

nervous because i’m blue

but let me put my buckle on and let’s go

for it

you will do fine i’m sure so my first

question is you have the ability to go

back in time

and talk to your former self on your

first day

as a communication coach what advice

would you give yourself

i would probably say trust

in what’s coming because honestly

where i’m at now i would have never

dreamt what has happened on this journey

would have happened like i would have


keep the course and trust what’s coming


again the book the platform you know the

downloads for the videos i don’t

you know just reach 16 million wow

so the fact that this this

just this simple message of speaking


to another person it’s always been my


but it’s much bigger than i would have

ever ever dreamed it to be

what are the last few books that you’ve

read oh

let’s see i’m a big mystery fan so i


read a um jeffrey deever book

i can’t even remember the name of it i

think it was called bones or something

like that

then i read the book about corey


which i absolutely loved and

one that is called i think it’s called

atomic habits

i’ve read that that’s a great book yeah

i just started that so i’m really

curious to get into that a little bit

kathleen i’m curious what is your take

on some of the best communication books

uh i think that they’re a little bit

more about

focusing on you instead of the other


and i’m so much more of

leaving the other person feeling known

and understood

and i think there’s some really good

communication books

out there for example love languages

that’s a big one i’m sure everybody


but i have so many people coming in my

office confused they’re like we read the

love languages and we’re still

fighting all the time well let’s just

use that

for you and i if we did the love

languages and both

our love languages were words of


do you see the problem already without

knowing the temperaments

yeah that’s huge and that’s actually is

my love language and

our words would be very different they

would be totally different

so again i think there’s some good

information out there

i think they it would be even better

information on the foundation of

understanding the temperaments

so kathleen you’ve written this book

you’ve had this great life you’ve helped

so many people

eventually hollywood’s going to make a

movie about your life

who do you want to play you i don’t know

really who i’d want to play me

in the past way back this will


put an age label on me somebody told me

that i resemble pat benatar

i could see that but that was back in

the day so

i don’t even know where she is in the in

these decades but

i i love that answer and and i i think

you were a rock star to many people so

that is a great answer

thank you absolutely my final question


now can talk to anybody throughout

history who to be with

and why um gosh

now that list is much much longer than

the pat benatar list

but right now i’m going to go with right

now my exact answer right now would have

to be corey tenenbu because i’m reading

that book

and i’m always so perplexed and

interested in people who are

genuinely and almost so simply

selfless in their actions so right now i

would want to talk to her

and see what was that motivation

i don’t know if you know her book but i

don’t can you tell us a little about it

it was back in the war crime days

and she hid jews in her

house when the germans were coming


and it’s an unbelievably true story

there’s actually another really good

book that you might like called

beneath the scarlet sky which is also a

true story

about a young man in the front row

armies and

became a spy when he was 19. these

stories are fascinating to me

because again the selflessness of these


i’m very intrigued with well kathleen

i’m sorry to say that this is at the end

of our interview and and i really want

to thank you

for coming on scaling up h2o a second


i know i have learned a lot i know we’ve

helped the scaling up nation

out a lot and i want to share some


on my show notes page where people can


the assessment they can learn more about

what you do

but i just want to thank you again for

coming on the show coming on scaling up


well you know all you have to do is give

me a call

and i’ll i’ll show up for you you’re

helping me get the message out

and that’s extremely important to me

nation i cannot have a conversation with

kathleen and

not learn something new about the i said


you heard that material you heard it


right there in the interview and folks i

have tried to be

a diligent student of this work

for at least the last two years and when

you go through it and you talk with


i tell you there’s just so much more to


and my personal testimony on this

is this hands down has been

one of the best things that i have done

to allow me to understand how i

communicate with people

and more importantly how they hear my


as i’m speaking to them it has been

a game changer with how i communicate

and as kathleen mentioned she is working

on some new programs

and the new program that i’m really

excited about is

how she is applying this to kids

and i know when i’ve talked with people

that have gone through this program

with their spouse or their team

most people said wow i wish i had this


when my kids were younger well a couple

things and i’ve heard kathleen say this


it’s never too late to start and two

i think she’s heard that message time

and time again so she’s created a


just for you communicating with

kids so that’s coming out very soon

and she’s also releasing a program

directly for

business people now we’ve done her i

said this you heard that

workbook at our company it was one of


best programs that we have done here at

blackmore enterprises

it has helped us communicate with

ourselves as a team

it’s helped us communicate with our

customers and

every one of my team members took that


to their families and they are now using


there as well it’s very exciting by the

way if you need a copy of the workbook

we’ve created an amazon

affiliate link to make it really easy

for you to find that’s scaling up

h2o.com forward slash

i said you heard and folks

no doubt about it there’s so much to

learn from this material

when i learn of the programs that i just


coming out i will let the scaling up

nation know so it’s my hope

that the next time you’re speaking to

someone else

you choose that the words that you use

are a gift from you to them

folks i also hope that you join us next

week for a brand new episode of scaling




scale up nation if you have a


with another person there’s no doubt

about it

you have had a miscommunication life is

full of miscommunications but i think

the key to life

and those relationships is what do we do


we realize we have miscommunicated

i asked my friend and mastermind member

tom hardy

what his experience has been with some

of the tools that we’ve learned in the

rising tide mastermind around


here’s what he said interestingly it’s

at times it’s validated my thoughts and


when i’ve had conflicts with co-workers

or other people

that i deal with on a regular basis and

on the other end of that at times it’s

it’s made me realize maybe i was not

thinking straight and giving me a

different perspective

from the other side’s point of view when

i’m having running to complex

issues tom thanks for sharing that

nation again communication is hard and

most of us do more speaking than we

do listening that means we are not

answering the right problem and no


people get frustrated well i can’t

guarantee that if you join the rising

tide mastermind that that will never

happen again but i can tell you that we

teach each other certain tools to make


set up for success when it comes to

communicating with another individual

when was the last time you said

something it was mistaken

and you wondered how you both got

to that location well we’ll help you

dissect that conversation within the

mastermind group

and hopefully give you some tools so if

you had a similar conversation

you would be able to do that better not

just for yourself

but with the person on the other side of

that communication

if that sounds like something you need

help with and boy it’s definitely

something i need help with

go to scaling up h2o.com forward slash

mastermind to find out more about the

rising tide mastermind and if this group

is right for you