224 Transcript

The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present.

today’s episode is proudly sponsored by
pixis the ptsa experts nation i have
been using ptsa for years and as you
know when you use ptsa you have to use a
meter that you can depend on well right
out of the box i used my pixis meter and
i found it was superior to other meters
that i have tried at a price that made
it easy for me to outfit everybody
within my company with a pixis meter now
when you measure ptsa you need to make
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that’s p y x i s
welcome to scaling up the podcast where
we scale up on knowledge so we don’t
scale up our systems i’m trace blackmore
i get to host this awesome podcast and
thank you so much for all of you out
there that attended the association of
water technologies convention just a few
short weeks ago that came up to me and
let me know that you listen to this
little podcast that we put on every
single week and i’m still behind the
same desk that i started with
my microphone and my equipment’s changed
a little bit of course we have a staff
now so i say little i’m amazed at how
much this podcast has grown i’m amazed
that we’re in 92 countries with
of listeners
multiples of thousands over ten thousand
it just blows my mind
that the scaling up nation is becoming
just such an incredible force and it’s
all driven
by the fact that we all care about this
industry that we want to learn more
about this profession this craft that we
do each and every day how we do it
better how we learn more how we
contribute back
the industry it is so exciting to see
this now four year journey that we’ve
all been on together and when you come
up to me and let me know that you listen
to this show that you got a favorite
episode or there was a certain episode
that challenged you to do something
there was somebody that i was eating
lunch with they were at the table and
they said do you mind if i tell you a
story and i said absolutely and they
shared with me that one of the episodes
and i apologize i can’t remember the
episode that you mentioned but the
episode that they were listening to
kind of aggravated them they got a
little angry because i was saying what
they were doing wasn’t enough and they
were thinking well that’s how we do it
who are you to say it’s not enough and
again i can’t remember the exact episode
but they started thinking about that and
then they started thinking about all the
little things that they could do that
didn’t cost them anything that maybe
they substituted task a for task b so it
didn’t even cost them any more time and
not only did that account get better
they started enjoying going to that
the reason that the episode upset them
was because they were burned out at that
account and who wants to put more effort
when you don’t feel appreciated when you
feel like you’re doing the same thing
over and over
again well because they started getting
more information are different
information they were able to have
different conversations with their
customer and because these conversations
were different and also because their
attitude was different the customer then
started taking
recommendations that they had been
giving them all along now they gave me
credit for that podcast for all of that
but i give that credit directly back to
them because if you do not have the
drive to make what you’re doing each and
every day better to learn from what
you’re doing today to make tomorrow
better then it doesn’t matter what’s out
you’re the driving force so thank you so
much for sharing that story with me and
of course dozens of other people came up
to me i got some show ideas got to meet
a lot of people i didn’t know got to see
a lot of people i do know and it was
just a fantastic
week in providence rhode island now one
of the people that i got to see in
providence rhode island is definitely a
friend to the scaling up h2o podcast
he’s a friend to the water treatment
here’s the next james’s challenge
hello scaling up nation the next james’s
challenge as we grow as an industrial
water treatment professional drop by
drop is
using proper safety precautions while
sampling run boiler water tests on a
sample collected with a sample cooler
and an uncooled sample for the same
how does the temperature the boiler
water sample impact test results what
changes may occur with water chemistry
and why how much water flashes off from
the hot sample
what are the temperature limitations of
your testing equipment and reagents
be sure to share your experience on
linkedin by tagging it with hashtag jc21
and hashtag scalinguph2o this is james
mcdonald and i look forward to seeing
what you share
nation one of the things that james and
i did while we were at the association
of water technologies convention is we
were able to sit down and figure out
what we are going to do to continue our
next year so stay tuned for that i love
all the things that the podcast is doing
with james mcdonald and speaking of that
just a few short weeks ago we celebrated
our fourth annual industrial water week
nation this was the most celebrated
industrial water week in history now
james says it takes about four to five
years for a holiday to really catch on
and and i think he really knows what
he’s talking about
because there were so many posts to
social media this year
we had some last year we had a few the
year before we had very few the first
year it came out but so many people are
getting behind celebrating this amazing
profession that we are all in i know i’m
speaking to a bunch of listeners that
participated in celebrating industrial
water week you shared pictures with us
i love seeing that tell you what that
helps me more than anything to know that
i’m not alone out there so many times
we’re driving from account to account
and just knowing that there are other
people out there that i’m part of a
community a community called the scaling
up nation
that just makes me feel better
that not only do i have a network where
i can meet people and ask them questions
i know that other people are
experiencing the same things that i am
experiencing speaking of networking we
have another hang coming up our next
hang is going to be on november 11th at
6 00 pm
that’s eastern time and you can register
for that by going to scalinguph2o.com
forward slash hang now this is going to
be the last hang that we do
this year and the hang was started
because we were not able to get together
in person we weren’t able to see the
people we usually see at an awt
convention or another event because in
2020 that just wasn’t happening
well since that time the hang has been
so popular for people to get together to
meet people they haven’t met before that
know something about a topic
that they have a question about it has
just been wildly successful in doing
that and also fun for me to facilitate
so we’re going to continue the hang so
if you want to be involved and why
wouldn’t you want to be involved it’s
totally free we’re talking about water
treatment we’re having fun that’s going
to be november 11th 6 p.m eastern time
scaling up h2o.com forward slash hang
well nation with everything going on
it is hard for a water treater to go to
work and not have something else added
to their plate there’s always something
else to do there’s always something else
new to learn and there’s only so many
hours in the day
on today’s interview we’re going to talk
about some potential solutions to get
you some hours back in the day
my lab partner today is returning guest
laith charles
of watermark and that’s different from
the last time we spoke in episode 62
back in november 20th of 2018. laith how
are you i’m pretty good trace thanks for
having me on how about yourself how you
doing i’m doing great thank you for
asking that question always good to have
you on the podcast i think you’ve been
in some
other fashions maybe we didn’t do an
entire episode but i’m pretty sure
you’ve been
either calling in and asking questions
or giving advice i know you’ve been on
the show more than just once yeah if i
during a technical training one time you
had your little hand-held setup you
asked me a question there and i know
i’ve done a couple of those recorded
voicemails that you can leave on the
website so big fan of the show like what
you’re doing glad i can contribute
well i appreciate all that you
contribute i know you and i have
collaborated on a couple of episodes
behind the scenes
and you’ve given me some great advice on
how to better explain a topic or or what
to delve into when there’s so many areas
you can cover in a topic and by you
calling in and asking questions and
contributing that way
that helps me so much those are my
favorite episodes when i can answer
questions from the audience
it feels like i’m engaging right so
anyway i can talk the entire episode
about that but thank you and all the
others out there in the scaling up
nation that do that but let’s get back
to you
last time i introduced you you were with
paul safeter
what’s going on
so still
close with the pulse of eater guys i
went over my history a little bit in our
last podcast
at the time when you interviewed me i
was the pacific northwest regional
manager a direct employee of pulsa
feeder and since that point
unfortunately the predecessor to me
previous owner of watermark peter rock
and claus passed away abruptly in his
early 50s
so after some time i eventually bought
the company out from from his wife so uh
watermark has been a manufacturer’s
representative for pulsar feeder for a
long time
and they have a few other lines that
they represent all kind of synergistic
water treatment equipment so i still
have pulsa feeder in the fold that’s the
brand that i rep for chemical feed pumps
and then
as a rep i’m able to kind of bring other
lines into the fold that don’t conflict
so i do have
peabody for their tanks and their
secondary containment stuff i’ve got
harmscope for filtration
vector for some bypass feeders and
and a few other smaller lines
just trying to really bring a complete
so i can check more boxes and do a
little bit more
packaged you know solutions for the
water treaters
well i have to say that being a business
really suits you i appreciate that it’s
uh drinking from a firehose i don’t
think it’s a secret that i’m relatively
young but uh yeah i just like the the
unique challenges and and honestly i
know we’re getting into this later but
uh your mastermind group couldn’t have
come at a better time for me
because i was a little shy of probably a
year into managing watermark
and i think it’s really important as a
small business to try and get outside
perspective what you’re doing
so i was literally exploring getting
like business consultants and
trying to vet that out but as i’m sure
you’re aware the whole water treatment
industry as a whole is a little alien to
most so being able to talk to people who
already know the industry
has been awesome and they’ve been
managing their own businesses
successfully for quite some time
so i’m able to get insight from people
are much smarter and more experienced
than me so thanks for putting that
together i know you didn’t do it for me
but i’ve benefited from it well i’ve
benefited from it it has been amazing
the different topics that come on during
our calls
uh especially how vulnerable people are
and and how they are really sharing the
right issue normally the more vulnerable
it is the more right the issue is that
we need to talk about it and the advice
that people give
is that specifically what you were
looking for when you were thinking i’m a
new business owner
i need to surround myself with people
that i can ask questions to that i can
give advice to but i can learn from in
the process
yeah i mean honestly you kind of put
together a little dream team i can’t
remember if you told me these are the
people that are going to be a part of
the group but
a lot of the members at the time
i hadn’t met personally i didn’t have a
good relationship with
i kind of knew of them from afar so it
was a great way to get to know them on a
more personal level and just get to mine
information from them and i i guess i’ve
got a little different perspective i
know from your intro videos your the
coming into these meetings is to come
with a full cup
and you want to pour into other people’s
cups i’ve tried channeling that
throughout the whole you know time that
i’ve done this it’s going on almost two
years now is that accurate
you’re getting ready to go into your
third year i think oh my gosh time has
flown so i’ve tried channeling to come
with a full cup and contribute what you
can so i i always try and bring and i
joke about it in the group that like
millennial perspective because i know a
lot of the members of the group are you
know dealing with employees who are
millennials and they got different
mindsets and understanding what
motivates them and then obviously i’ve
got a little bit more of an equipment
bias with all the ways i tackle problems
and uh i like leaning on technology a
lot which i guess isn’t the prevailing
mindset but i try and bring that
perspective to the group which i hope
adds value so lady we just discovered
it’s almost three years we’re getting
ready to go into our third year
why do you keep coming back each and
every week
at this point i’ve got a good
camaraderie with the group i could
probably not be a member of the group
and easily call these members and they
would answer you know at off hours
because the bond is that strong but i
mean there’s always new topics to
discuss we’re in a dynamic landscape
right business practices need to change
kind of on the day-to-day since covet
kind of reared its head
going through what other businesses are
doing and how they’re handling and
responding to
code was a big topic that we we had to
discuss and that was new and different
it kind of continues to evolve now it’s
more shifting towards the supply chain
crisis right and how do we combat that
so there’s always new topics to discuss
and i guess the other thing that just
keeps getting stronger is just that
relationship at this point those group
i see them
every week
on a call and we just continue to
nurture that bond and as that bond gets
stronger i think the group overall you
know we’re more open with each other
and we just have an understanding we
know the problem that that specific
person solved like a year ago
and that nugget is another piece of
information we can use to kind of
continue to help one another it just
a couple of months ago we all
experienced the mastermind live event
how would you explain that experience to
our audience
the live event was for me just like long
overdue there were some members of the
group that i just haven’t met in person
i’ve seen them face to f well virtually
face to face i’ve heard about some of
their intimate issues whether it’s
personal whether it’s business related
but there’s just something about meeting
someone face to face from a connection
um i go back to that bond thing it was
really able to forge stronger stronger
bonds and we kind of got to a new level
of vulnerability
some of the exercises that you had trace
were very very good that timeline of the
highs and lows in your life that was
just a way to be a completely open book
and you set the tone for that perfectly
and that just allowed us to get to know
each other better because it’s one thing
saying you know this is the issue i’m
dealing with right now and that’s
predominantly you know in the in the
middle section of the mastermind group
that’s what we typically do along with
kind of the books that we do in parallel
to that
but the highs and lows kind of gives you
more of that background like why is this
person reserved about doing this or
doing that the backstory kind of
helps you understand what makes them
tick behind the scene
at least it did for me and you realize
that you’ve been through some pretty bad
lows other people have been through some
pretty bad lows and you just you feel
for that person more i love my group too
it’s a greatly curated group
our keynote speaker was the ceo of
chick-fil-a what did you learn from that
how to climb a ladder or how not to
climb a ladder maybe
now his his speech was specifically on
from getting here to there it’s like
this is where you are this is where you
want to go and it was all about the how
to get there
it’s a well done presentation because as
a presenter you’ve only got a finite
amount of time yeah you could get into a
lot of technical details you could tell
specifically like the ins and outs of
chick-fil-a uh would be his insight that
he could give to us but uh he was trying
to arm us with with a nugget to help
steer or influence our perspective going
forward and you know he gave us a little
free chick-fil-a sandwich coupon too so
he’s like
yes i want you to go buy chicken
sandwiches but also the next time you go
and buy a chicken sandwich i want you to
think about how you’re progressing from
from here to there yeah the ladder and
the visual that he gave us he had this
massive ladder in the room and he’s like
all right let’s try and stand this
ladder up in the middle of the room i’m
at the bottom of the ladder or here and
where i want to go is that the top of
this ladder how do i get there in a free
floating ladder in the middle of the
room not rested up against the wall so
he got the the groups involved and they
were bracing the ladder and everyone
thought he was going to climb it and
it’s like oh my god this is a bad idea
i didn’t know if he had a secret like
circus background where he’s able to
just like climb ladders freestanding but
that visual element kind of helps
solidify the message
yeah so some backstory on that when
cliff and i met cliff robinson is who
we’re talking of chick-fil-a
he said trace you’re gonna be nervous
but i promise you i’ve done this before
and i’ve never fallen and i will not
fall during your events i was like okay
if that’s the deal i’m gonna hold you to
it but great visual you’re right and
then he stayed for over an hour
answering all of our questions about
chick-fil-a and
i know listeners are thinking okay what
questions can you ask about chick-fil-a
but they were so
insightful and business-driven and how
do we take what chick-fil-a does and
bring that to our customers i was just
blown away by the questions
yeah i mean it’s not a secret right
there’s a lot of fast food chains out
there and i think most businesses are
trying to look at who’s doing things
differently who’s shaking up certain
market spaces
chick-fil-a from a branding side has
always been very strong
their drive-throughs literally cause
traffic jams right their chicken
sandwiches are that good
and some of the logistics that he
explained about we physically cannot
store enough food in our store to feed
the volume in a single day like the
delivery trucks coming in super late
packing that facility to its maximum
capacity and then still not having
enough food to feed just that demand
and it’s interesting the whole logistics
i mean i’m an engineer so i always look
at things like what was the process
behind that
um so from an industrial engineering
stance looking at the throughput and the
managing of that drive-through i mean i
don’t know what they’re like in
atlanta but the drive-through is by me
in maryland you know you’ve got the roof
you’ve got the heaters you’ve got the
fans with the misters because you get
the hot and the cold right so in
wintertime those guys walking around
with the tablets
they don’t want to freeze right they’re
there for a full working shift so uh
yeah they’ve revolutionized that drive
through it’s just interesting to see uh
how that business is managed and what
allowed them to disrupt the market space
to the extent that they have because
everyone’s kind of copying it yeah and i
remember one of the questions that was
pretty much reinvented their store when
everybody was dealing with how to deal
with covid
and one of the questions was how did you
pivot so quickly
and he said well that didn’t happen
overnight we’ve been working on that
for years you know how do we redefine
the drive-through how do we get people
to place their orders sooner so we have
more time to prepare it instead of just
the time you got up to the speaker to
the window and it was all these things
that they’ve been working on for
innovation that they were able to put
into play probably a little quicker than
they had planned but because they were
planning to innovate they were able to
pivot before everybody else in that
market and as you mentioned other people
were copying what they did yeah i think
the example or the question was phrase
like hey a new chick-fil-a got built
just down the road from me or it got um
it actually got redesigned tore it down
i think it stayed open to an extent um
but then they overhauled the store
and the takeaway was i noticed that the
seating area got smaller
and it was you know the building has to
be this big this is the lot that it’s on
our drive-through traffic and storing
the food is is so
high and that’s such a good revenue
stream for us and people sitting in the
store is actually yeah less profitable
right they’re they’re in there um you’ve
staff visiting the table refilling
drinks so it’s it’s interesting things
you don’t really think about you just
take for granted but
applicable business fundamentals to help
you figure out well how do i apply that
to what i do
i’ve got several friends that are
operators for chick-fil-a and they’re
all about metrics they know how long
drive-through takes they know how long
when somebody comes in and just because
i know these numbers for for this
particular store he was sharing with me
seven minutes is the average from when
you place your order to when you drive
off with your order and it’s 50 minutes
from when somebody comes in
the restaurant and
eats and then leaves the restaurant so
if you can imagine the the difference
and and how many more people they can
serve via drive-thru instead of coming
into the restaurant but the line that
they walk is chick-fil-a is all about
community and they want to make sure
they always have that place where
community can come into the restaurant
they can meet they can do business they
can rejuvenate they can do anything that
they need to
so they’re they’re very
cautious to say we’re just going to do
drive-through we’re going to put all of
our attention on drive-through and there
has to be a very good reason there’s a
in downtown atlanta that just didn’t get
any inside traffic it was all
drive-through so when they rebuilt it
it’s got four drive-through lanes so
it’s a it’s a restaurant with lane just
four drive-through lanes and they’ve got
uh tubes and things that will deliver
your food i’ve never been delivered by a
tube it’s always been somebody walking
it out to me but they really think those
things out and i’m pretty sure we can
talk this whole episode around
chick-fil-a but i want to i want to
bring some other topics to mind
the other thing i wanted to bring up is
recently we just had the awt convention
so i wanted to ask you what was your
experience like at awt
well most of the mastermind members
are also attendees a lot of them are awt
presidents to be honest it was kind of
like we did our mastermind in person and
then i got to see a lot of the same
people at the awt so obviously
providence rhode island i hadn’t been
there before
i go to any awt event i can and yeah i
think people always ask me like oh did
you get much business did you earn a new
customer did you do this like awt for me
is it’s just about the people i think
we’ve got a pretty unique industry
this whole like
camaraderie with your
basically competitors is
i think rare
and uh yeah for me it’s just about going
catching up with people
having some good memories i think
everyone usually ends up at some bar
late near the hotel and they just
they then have a story to tell about
that and um
yeah obviously the presentations this
year i mean there were some prevailing
trends that i wanted to attend
so tag polymers were a big one this year
i know you spoke out on tag polymers but
it was a whole track i think there were
three running concurrently there were
some wastewater presentations that i
wanted to see because candidly i don’t
really know much about wastewater i’m
not a chemist by trade and that’s that’s
probably one thing that kind of like
holds me back a little bit so um yeah
i’m reading a lot of chemistry related
books now
there’s this
overlap right i mean i’m i come at
things from
this is the equipment right i know that
this pump can output a water-like fluid
at this rate okay you’ve got some back
pressure okay this has got a higher
viscosity uh this is an off-gassing
product like how do we handle that on
the equipment side what kind of control
measures do we need to implement
understanding that chemistry and just
being able to go somewhere and share
knowledge is
critical just better the industry
overall so it’s a great hub for that and
i tried to
give my
take on it as well because i presented
out on
iot augmented water treatment because i
think there’s a lot being left on the
table and a lot of technology being
underutilized so it’s my attempt to kind
of exhibiting a market push on the
industry to say hey maybe there’s a
different way
worth considering
that’s eventually what we’re going to
talk about the iot your presentation
that you did but something else happened
at the awt convention i’m not sure all
the members of the scaling up nation
but you were recognized with an award
and it’s the first time
this award has ever been given it’s
called the rising star award
and i believe the awt board has had this
award available for the last three to
five years and they were looking for the
right person to give it to the rising
star award recognizes the contributions
and efforts of the next generation of
water treatment professionals the
nominee will possess a demonstrated
passion for their work in the water
treatment industry field and will have
contributed to the advancement of the
mission and you
were named the first recipient of the
rising star award congratulations
thanks trace it was an honor they kind
of call you ahead of time to make sure
like are you going to be at the awards
ceremony i’m like should i be at the
awards ceremony
yes you should okay
yeah they made me aware of it ahead of
time and it’s kind of like hush-hush
i’ve always enjoyed contributing to awt
community i wasn’t even aware of the
award until i got the phone call saying
you’re receiving this award but you know
i as you know i’ve been on the technical
training side of things contributing to
the hands-on section i’ve published a
few articles in the analyst
presented out a couple times at awt
i used to be with the young
professionals and more recently i help
out with the education committee so
i don’t know who submitted my name i
think you have to be nominated but i
guess someone liked what i was doing and
felt that i deserved some kind of
acknowledgement i mean it’s great to be
don’t get me wrong it’s it’s a privilege
to be the first recipient
but uh it’s a privilege to just
contribute to to be frank it’s uh i i
enjoy it and i carve out
the time because it it adds value to my
well again congratulations it’s a very
high honor and i was so proud when you
stood up as that recipient
and i think you noticed all your fellow
mastermind members they were the first
to get out of their chairs and give you
a standing ovation
yeah the support the camaraderie from
from the mastermind group i think the
whole table was basically uh mass
reminders at that awards dinner i’ve
never been to an awards dinner too
before that event was just great the the
stage was nice um and then afterwards
that whole fire show and and the dinner
memorable so night couldn’t have gone
better yeah and i’m not even sure how to
describe the fire on water show uh
hopefully awt will put something in the
analyst maybe some pictures or something
i don’t even think we can try i don’t
think we can do that justice but it was
interesting it definitely was
interesting you mentioned the paper that
you presented
on the internet of things
and that’s where we’re going to shift
gears to now and talk about that and i
have to say like the most awesome thing
that i saw at any presentation
was how you handled how you were coming
after a presentation
weed in the workplace
and an attorney was telling everybody
okay well how do you have to change your
hr rules what do you need to look at
what if it’s legal in your state what if
it’s not legal in your state and then
brought snacks
just in case anybody had the munchies
after that presentation and you handed
them out before you spoke that was
amazing yeah as soon as i saw where i
was so i was 4 30 on a friday and i was
like oh attendance is probably gonna be
a little rough right last presentation
of the day i think you were in a similar
shift a couple days before me i was like
well it’s gonna be late in the day
people gonna be hungry and i can’t pass
up the opportunity for the for the joke
being after yeah weed in the workplace
uh yeah i brought some chips
i had to represent utz chips because in
maryland that’s like a thing so as soon
as i managed to get a hold of them they
were getting passed out
yeah fun fact a lot of people know aqua
phoenix they’re a supporter of the
scaling up h2o podcast they are right
next door to us potato chips
well let’s talk about your presentation
you use the term the internet of things
what does that term even mean
yeah it’s kind of a buzzword people
throw it around a lot nowadays i define
internet of things i mean something
connected to the internet right i mean
it’s a way of just shifting the words
around a little bit but
anything that can connect to what’s
called like the spine
technically anyone can set up an
internet in their house like i’ve got my
own intranet within my household right
but if i go to a browser and i’m trying
to search for something it pulls the
and i get information from this massive
network of interconnected devices
so anything on that whether it’s a
printer whether it’s an actual computer
whether it’s a
tiny little motion sensor whether it’s a
cooling tower controller if it’s
if it’s online capable
i define that as the internet of things
and and that’s growing further because
like cell phones if i’m doing like let’s
say or maybe it’s a tablet if i’m doing
my service reports and i’m using some
kind of cloud
software to do that pulling up my phone
typing in things submitting that it’s
using the internet it might be some
cloud-based software i would lump in
all of those software as a solution
platforms as
a thing on the internet so kind of in
this big
bubble if you will
how would you say that technology is
being utilized
in today’s marketplace in the water
treatment community
not enough hence the presentation
underutilized is the word i would use
so i’ve got this very unique view on
water treatment i get to go into
all of my local water treatment
companies and some other market
verticals but for industrial water
treatment i can kind of get to see how
all these companies run their day-to-day
what they do what they don’t do
and honestly in today’s day and age
every time i go in
i’ll always get the question hey do you
know anyone looking for a job
you know we’ve got companies that are so
strapped for resources and the hiring
market’s never been as tough as it is
today and everyone’s mentality is i need
more people and i don’t disagree they
probably do need more people but you’ve
got a problem i would argue that there’s
more than one way to solve it and this
is kind of referencing one of our
mastermind books right the
procrastinator on purpose that uh focus
funnel i don’t know if you can throw a
visual of that focus funnel into the
show notes page but i will make sure
that happens
well that funnel in a nutshell kind of
describes the ways in which you would
make your business run more efficiently
and that’s that’s one of the references
that kind of plays nicely into my
presentation is the whole funnel is
based on you know eliminating things
that are unnecessary delegating what you
automating anything you can
and then if it finally makes its way
down to the bottom of the funnel and i
might have gotten the orders a little
jumbled up you do you decide if this
needs to be done now
in which case you focus on it you
concentrate on it or if it can be done
later in which case you pop it back up
to the top of that focus funnel and uh
you procrastinate
procrastinating on purpose right so the
book got its name
so if i just look at that fundamentally
this whole iot piece
leans into that automate section
and i think it’s probably the most under
utilized section of the focus funnel in
our market
so i know if someone’s like using you
mentioned aquafenix if someone’s using
these service reports for doing their
service routine i’m sure it’s completely
automated but there are aspects of that
service report that have been automated
you’re still doing your tests right
you’re still doing your job it’s just
you punch it into one box it gets stored
it gets put into a report it gets
emailed out to that customer
things are being done and you’re not
double entering things right so there’s
value there and people see that
um but it seems like a lot of people
will kind of stop there and it’s
nowadays it’s just so easy to get two
different softwares to kind of talk
and then you can have some logic around
those two different softwares when
they’re talking and there’s more devices
that you can connect to the internet and
then you can record more data points
these data points aren’t necessarily
and i think the fear is and this is what
i try to make abundantly clear in the
presentation i think the fear was that
well i don’t want a piece of equipment
replacing me that’s this fear that well
if this is networked i’m not gonna go to
the site anymore and i’m gonna be
on a beach somewhere doing my field
service reports from there like i don’t
see that happening anytime in the near
future hopefully never
but the amount of times that i get a
phone call saying hey i turned up and
you know i’ve been in connectivity high
alarm for weeks and then flow switch
some issue occurred and you weren’t
aware of it going into it you turn up
completely blindsided by a system upset
that’s been prevailing for a while and
if that controller’s online you you get
an email as soon as that system upset
occurs you can get information from that
unit and then pivot and make a decision
based on that so it’s not replacing you
it’s merely a shoulder tap right
this is something you might care about
this is something that you might want to
make a decision about when it’s
connected online
that’s easy to do
well it enhances what we do on a
day-to-day basis
the way that i see
probably the lowest hanging fruit is for
those of us that are working with our
customers with legionella water plans
if they get a positive result and that
positive result
triggers something that has to be done
you physically have to go out there and
you have to do that thing
well if you’ve got the controller that’s
monitoring orp and you’re able to log in
that as soon as you get that result
you can start that correction
and i i think that’s how you have to do
it in new york city i don’t i don’t
think they can work any other way but
that’s how i see that things like this
what we’re able to do we don’t have to
drop everything
right now when we just learn some new
we can now better plan when is it the
best time for me to go out to that
location and now i can actually test
because something’s been done i’m not
working off old information
yeah i mean the ability to orp
i guess slug feed your oxidizing or
non-oxidizing bias i guess in this case
oxidizing by a side but you can
potentially remedy a high count right
remotely as long as you can feed that
feed pump it hasn’t lost prime and you
see that spike in your orp value most
people accept that as as sufficient
data to say yes that was a successful
oxidant feed we locked out the bleed
relay for this much time we got our rp
up to this value
and you know there’s there’s specs
around that that prove that this slug
and hold kind of method is is effective
yeah that’s just one of the many
many ways that you can just make your
day-to-day easier so
i guess i just find it interesting that
most people that i meet with will say do
you know anyone looking for work i think
very few people are thinking about how
can i do more work with the same amount
of head count resources what are other
leverageable resources within my
organization i think everyone knows at
the cost of hiring someone and training
and making them like getting them
started up and firing on all cylinders
in this niche market without any
existing experience i mean it’s hard and
even if you get someone with existing
experience it’s kind of like well that’s
what your old company did but our
company does it this way there’s a lot
of differences right in the way that
everyone handles water treatment i mean
chemistry is chemistry but there’s
the the blackmore enterprise way right
you have a specific approach a specific
handle a specific way of doing things so
it’s unlikely that you just find someone
out there who’s already doing exactly
what your business does so
anyway the hiring
and getting an efficient head count
is hard and it seems like and some
people do this better than others seems
like people jump around unfortunately a
little too much and as a millennial
probably guilty of that i mean you said
to your point i used to be a direct
pulsator employee the last time we spoke
and now i’m watermark so i’m guilty to
an extent as well but
i’m just trying to provide basically a
perspective provide basically an angle
where people could potentially manage
their business a little differently and
try and be a little bit more efficient
what are some other areas maybe some low
hanging fruit that people just don’t
think of that we could get a piece of
control equipment to do for us
in a nutshell basically everyone’s
controller nowadays they’ve got a model
that can go online it can send out alarm
notifications i i look at it two
different ways so there’s alarm driven
instance notifications that’s the i’ve
got low orp
i’ve got high connectivity
i’m in a flow switch alarm but this is a
cooling system that shouldn’t be in flow
switch alarm right so there’s alarm
driven stuff and then there’s i guess
historical report stuff as well i would
say very few people are value selling
their services
based on
the accuracy of their water treatment
program so in terms of low hanging fruit
trace i mean
i think a lot of people use
iot to maybe
decrease the amount of man hours that
you waste
decrease the the labor commitment to a
site because if i know ahead of time
right that i’ve got
let’s call it a high conductivity alarm
i know i’ll probably want to bring a new
relay board for the controller in case
the relay’s gone bad i’ll i’ll bring a
new connectivity probe in case the probe
is not measuring correctly
i’ll bring things to make sure i can
recalibrate conductivity and i might
bring a new blow down valve right
i know ahead of time what’s wrong so i
could probably
fix it in one trip instead of going
there figuring out what i need to get
and then
have another trip where i can fix it
which is great and i’m an advocate of
but i think there’s also opportunity of
upselling service and value selling your
service so when it comes to your
annual review
hey we’re going to put this out to bid
we’ve got to shop this pricing
everything everyone’s looking at pricing
nowadays because pricing’s just gone
crazy if you can give them
great totally understand you need to
shop i just want to give you
this report this summary
just so you know how well i have treated
your systems
so you know this was your conductivity
set point this was your average range
this is the percentage of time in which
you were in control you know i’ve got a
ptsa probe on this system and look how
tightly controlled throughout the whole
season i kept that
this was a probe cleaning this was this
you’ve got all this data you can
document it all and then instead of
well we can drop your price if we only
come every other month and then we’ll
just ship you chemicals and then we
don’t do as much testing like i get that
angle and i think that’s the angle that
some people are taking some some
approaches but data’s there to be used
however you want to use it there’s ways
of saying hey look this is my price
this is why this is my price and look at
my performance
because everyone cares about price to
performance that’s what gives you value
there’s also the relationship piece
which is kind of hard to quantify but if
you’re just looking at price performance
for a value cell proposition you can
really justify the performance of your
work with that data i’d say not enough
people are leveraging that
i’m thinking back of a customer that we
had and we received an alarm from our
controller that was online
and it stated that our conductivity was
dropping and
on the controller you can just set it
hey this is out of the normal control
probably not a big deal or you can make
it okay this is becoming a bigger deal
and okay this is a huge problem so it
just alarmed us that something was off
but it wasn’t off that much
so we called them and we gave them three
scenarios that could be going on with
the conductivity being lower one of them
was the tower was overflowing
and sure enough what happened was the
float on the cooling tower valve had
just fallen off and it was just
and that had dropped the conductivity
enough for that first stage alarm
they fixed it at 4 30 on a friday
the only other way that they would
notice that was at best monday when they
came back to work
and probably not monday probably the
three weeks later when we were scheduled
to service it
how much water did we save that customer
well and now you have a lifelong
customer as well i mean that customer’s
not shopping for another contract for a
long time because
you have flexed your value and i mean
how much extra does it cost to put the
controller online i don’t know if you
pay for a sell modem or if you’re able
to connect to the customer’s location
but we’re talking about pretty minimal
cost adders to get equipment online i
think most people are trying to buy
equipment that’s at least cloud capable
online capable
but the number of people who actually
connect it actually get the modem is
smaller than i would hope i mean i spent
months years
working on pulsa feeders online platform
making reporting tools and things like
that and it’s like okay
i know what it cost them to develop this
and i would anticipate because i see a
demand i would anticipate a lot of usage
on it beautiful reports and they come
out over email and a pdf i mean the
cool and then to put all that work in
and see it under utilize is like a
little frustrating i guess
it’s my little plea on just like try it
out and you know there’s different color
boxes that you can hang on the wall
they’ve got similar functionality
everyone’s got their own little flair
right their own little take i mean
that’s how you gain market share you
want to be in apples to apples you want
to be a little different but i stand by
the blue platform i i like balsa peter’s
cloud connectivity i think it’s
implemented the exact way
to be like a modern architecture but you
know i would be happy if just more
people went online
do you have numbers on how many people
bought controllers and actually put them
yes it depends because controllers are
sold in a lot of different market
verticals um so it’s hard to quantify
the awt market space
but almost half of the controllers sold
nowadays it’s probably closer to around
40 percent
are online
capable they’re equipped with the right
technology or you can at least plug in a
card to upgrade them to online
functionality there are a lot
of lower end controllers right now that
don’t quite have that functionality you
know their budget install it on a new
contracting bid rip it out one year
later and put something a little bit
more horsepower behind it but yeah about
40 50 are online capable sold today and
only five percent are actively connected
in the busy season right because i don’t
even factor in online controllers for
like wintertime typically unless it’s
for a boiler application but the bulk of
controllers out there typically open
evaporative cooling loops in this market
that’s a lot lower than i would have
i would define this market space as a
certainly at least techno cautious
maybe borderlining technophobic um
because you know if you look at adjacent
market spaces and the like technology
adoption curves
we don’t adopt things quickly and i
think there’s a mentality where it’s
like well we tried this before
and it didn’t work or there was an issue
and i’d say that there’s a lot of long
memories out there or it’s like well it
didn’t work 20 years ago why is it going
to work now like the 20 years in the
technology curve is a long long long
time i always love looking at like the
moore’s law math on processing power
doubling and transistors getting smaller
and like
i love comparing the economics costs and
processing power they’re like oh if the
automobile industry had you know
innovative at the same rate as the
semiconductor industry cars would be
like 10 and go like 400 miles an hour
and they’d fly
they would fly not as fast as the
delorean or it’s cool but you know i can
see it on your shelf back there yes my
my tribute to back to the future is
right behind me
what are some of the iot internet of
things success stories that you can
well i have a lot of those similar
to you trace the hey we saw a low
conductivity alarm
what’s going on
um so most cooling tower controllers are
only equipped with conductivity but yeah
i’ve got a lot of the high and low
conductivity alarms there’s a few
you know passivation is a big deal
certainly when a tower is new and you’re
putting heat load on it
one of the success stories is just
partnering with with avapco i know of
apco or a friend of the show right you
you like vapco you’ve been to their like
r d facility i think you mentioned
recently on cooling wednesday yeah
they’ve been tremendous in adding
knowledge to the water treatment
industry they’ll they’ll think of
something they’ll test it in their lab
and then they’ll share it with the world
yeah so
it’s just great partnering with them
they’re they’re a forward-looking
company they’re trying to disrupt things
but i try and look at ways in which
technology has augmented water treatment
um so there’s the success story kind of
in new york where someone was able to
crunch in
this massive
labor element
when all that legislation came out in
new york the requirements were such that
in new york city you had to test every
other day conductivity phorp temperature
i think and uh report that so someone’s
physically going there and testing every
other day which is a massively high
cadence and most water treatment
companies are not staffed to magically
visit their accounts every other day but
there was a caveat in there that said
but if it’s online
and you’ve got good values on there
we will accept that so daily
measurements of what your online values
were there was like a subset so that was
a huge
resource when on on a head count
just to augment them and we partner with
a number of companies up there just to
help them get through this transitionary
period you know the logistics of do we
connect it with a modem do we connect it
with um through their network so there
were some you know school districts that
went through their network and things
like that
new york in general was a big win
for the iot movement in the water
treatment market the evap coat piece
that i mentioned around their
passivation solution as they call it i
think past protect is the name of this
program that they have they do an
initial treatment
in-house prepping the metal for
immediate heat load but then they have
to do a pretty tightly monitored
in-field passivation as a follow-up
they’re able to put immediate heat load
on there so we we made them a custom
obviously monitors
and uh they do have a ptsa probe on
there as well and yeah just being able
to partner with them and try and figure
out a solution because it’s not well and
good to have
probes but synergizing the technology
with the application
finding a solution that works
i work predominantly with jamie downey
and yeah he uses these panels
they circulate throughout north america
on new towers and yeah we’ve been able
to successfully passivate like probably
close to 100 towers and this this hasn’t
been out for for very long they move
around they do their job and
as soon as that ph is out of range they
get notified
and they can
implement corrective measures because uh
yeah you don’t want it out
out of range for too long because that’s
a process you can really only get right
one time so that was cool as well i like
trying to make those kind of engineered
solutions tailored approach going into
it you have this is what we’re trying to
how do we do it
and you’ve got multiple
kind of
walks of knowledge coming into the into
the picture
well we spent this conversation talking
about all the things that we can do to
help our customers to help us
maybe it’s a quality of life issue and
we don’t have to go somewhere to test
every two days we can actually utilize
some technology so lots of application
to simply make our lives easier
to help our customers see the value that
a professional water treater brings to
the party because now we have all these
different data sets that we can share
but i know you don’t stop there you have
probably the most connected house out of
in the scaling up nation
tell us about that
any device that you can buy that
connects to the internet i probably have
i mean i i’m referenced in my
presentation that i can unlock my door
on stage right there i can get my vacuum
to go around i’ve got one of those like
lidar vacuums that maps my house and i
can watch it move around in the house
you know i’ve got a smart hot water
heater that i can adjust remotely
if i know that i’m going to be
entertaining guests because it’s only
like a 50 gallon tank if i know guests
are coming over i can switch it over to
high demand mode and actually bump up
the temperature because it mixes right
it mixes with some cold water so you can
get more usage of hot water if it’s in
high demand mode and the temperature set
higher so
my washing machine will notify me when
it’s done and i got to move the clothes
from the washing machine to the dryer so
yeah i mean i’ve got a lot of connected
and i like tinkering i like playing with
online connected devices i mean i
understand the fundamentals of how
devices communicate to the cloud
what to do with the information when
it’s in the cloud how to store it how to
access it how to send push notifications
to your phone so it’s a lot of like
store-bought stuff and then some like
stuff that’s only in my house that i
just spent a weekend on creating so yeah
i i lean a lot on technology and i guess
i want to give that perspective because
i’m not trying to say that if you’re if
you don’t have an online controller
you’re mismanaging your company you got
way way more fixed overhead than you
could have like this is just one way and
i’m a
technophilic person i adopt technology i
use it almost to a fault right i think i
got asked the question about security
too does this open up my water i mean
these are valid concerns
if you do have concerns about that i
check with your controller manufacturer
your local rep like how do you do this
so it’s secure because everyone’s
is a little different some people host
websites on their controller that’s the
host website and to access it you have
to log into the physical device some
people have slave devices as the
controller slave to the the internet and
they merely report up and there’s
typically like an api protocol between
the two says
saying that this is the right approach
for all systems i’m not
intimately knowledgeable
on exactly how every manufacturer made
their equipment so if you got a question
about a blue pulse feeder controller
don’t hesitate to reach out to me but
you know if you’re using a different
color box on the wall
ask those questions to the local rep
make sure you get the right answer that
you feel comfortable with because
yes data security making sure that you
can’t i don’t know change a connectivity
set point i i think the whole uh was it
the target data breach didn’t that
happen through someone’s hvac system
someone got into that network that was
exactly where that came from yep so i
get the concern
but as a business you know you’re not
expected to have that knowledge in-house
consult with someone who knows cyber
security right and do your due diligence
to execute on best business practices
and yeah i mean there is an roi
on this equipment there is a way to save
and augment and more efficiently run
your business with with some of this
data and i’m excited to see where the
industry goes overall but yeah i’m one
side of that spectrum
an early adopter to a fault but uh
there’s something here there’s something
powerful there’s something that can
really impact the industry and make
make things better and more efficient i
feel that to my core
but yeah i’d dip a toe try it out figure
out what works
figure out the best business practice
around it then make the decision that
works for you and your business i guess
is my my message it’s a great message
it’s great advice and i’m sure you’re
going to get a lot of phone calls
because people are thinking
maybe i don’t need to do this the same
way i’ve always done it how do i make my
life a little bit easier how do i use
some of the tools that are already out
there and available to us
absolutely and you know the control
equipment is really only one piece of it
i mentioned service reporting as well
i think nowadays a lot of people’s
at least a portion of them is within the
cloud so i mean if you have like
quickbooks online if you have
some kind of erp system most people will
have a server of some kind and it’s
interesting what you can do once you
start integrating these different data
sets so it’s all well and good to know
that there’s a system upset somewhere
but let’s say you’ve got a fleet
management software and you’ve got gps
on your cars well now i know there’s a
system upset i know where that
controller is located i know where my
vehicles are
i may have inventory tracking on my cars
themselves so it’s like
it’s great to have the data and i think
a lot of people are in this data storing
mode i mean many of the big water
treatment companies
are just creating these data
repositories right
they don’t even know what they’re going
to do with this data but they know
collecting it having that data
will enable them to power future
and i think that’s what’s super cool
because if i’ve got level sensors on the
site let’s say and that’s stored on the
controller and that’s beamed up to the
cloud well i also know my costs
associated with that so i can integrate
that with quickbooks and figure out how
much inventory i have stored there maybe
if i do my own blending that can then
drive what my next production batch
looks like i know what my inventory
levels are maybe that triggers a buy on
some raw materials if i’m doing my own
inventory and i can deploy the guy
that’s closest to that facility because
this one’s critical this is a critical
process it’s a big customer i need to
resolve this now so i don’t care where
that guy’s going right now that was a
routine service visit he can be three
hours late for that and he can turn fix
the issue quickly
it’s just about getting all of this data
centralizing it which is easier said
than done like don’t get me wrong
everything’s got its own api you
probably need to build a little
dashboard but but people are playing
with this the the more forward-thinking
companies in our market space
have been collecting this data
they’ve got more and more data sets to
pull from
very few of them have synergized this
into a platform that can drive their
business better but there’s tons of
resources out there you don’t have to go
and hire a really expensive software
person to integrate this platform i mean
i’ve referenced in our mastermind group
a few times before that this this power
automate platform that microsoft have i
don’t even know if i can drop brand
names on your show so i apologize but
you know there’s tools that take some of
the programming complexity out of this
and they automate things and they make
them a little bit more intuitive and
user-friendly you can create like flow
charts within power automate that
trigger based on one condition or
another condition so i’m just i’m a geek
at heart i can’t wait to see
what people will use these data sets for
because i think we’re only at the tip of
the iceberg
i hope we’re only at the tip of the
iceberg because uh
it’s all about maximizing
efficiency you know if you can
accomplish the same amount of work
let’s say a lot of people are working
like 50 hour weeks i know that’s pretty
common especially in our busy season if
you could do the same amount of work in
a true 40-hour week of course lots of
things to think about leif again i think
that there are people out there that are
doing this and you’ve just bolstered
their position to why they’re doing it
but i’m willing to believe that there’s
more people out there that need to hear
and figure out how they can start
utilizing the tools that are available
so they can shave a little bit of time
and maybe it’s not 10 hours off the week
maybe it’s an hour but hey that’s an
hour that’s huge
lathe i’m looking at my notes the last
time i asked you lightning round
questions was about three years ago so
i’ve got some new ones for you if you’re
ready i’m ready
here we go
what would you say your superpower is
i guess in this market it’s
perspective sounds like a weird answer
but um
i guess i just look at things
differently i’ve got that bias that i
mentioned that’s always equipment
but that’s uh i’d argue a superpower in
this marketplace um
i i
i look at problems and i figure out a
different solution than what’s
what would you say is your proudest
that’s gotta be my the birth of my
daughter to be honest that’s just uh
that’s an experience it’s not something
you can compare anything to but uh yeah
i have a two
going on three-year-old girl i’ve got a
10 going on 11 boy
holding a newborn child is
something special
you know they’re gonna do it when they
finally make a statue of you what does
the plaque on the bottom say
yeah i think it’s just uh he tried his
it’s probably what it’ll say
there you go you can’t ask for anything
more right
my last question if you had the ability
to change anything in the world what
would it be
i think everything’s fundamental on on
education uh personally
all of today’s problems could be solved
with just
knowledge and education
you know we talk about
sanitation issues in third world
countries you talk about clean water in
third world countries and i commend
people that give
money to that cause
but i think the true approach
is educating
that population on
good practices
around those and and it could be true
with any issue right you take any issue
if i could wave a wand
i just
dump this massive set of knowledge
to the people that need it and i think
you’d wake up with a completely
different world
well and i think you’ve started that on
today’s podcast definitely a lot of
knowledge a lot of information and i
think you’re going to start changing
people’s minds that saw something 20
years ago and maybe it didn’t work then
but a lot of changes have happened
within those 20 years lath thank you so
much for coming back on scaling up h2o
thanks for the invite trace it’s it’s
always a pleasure and i mean it
if anyone has
questions i’m not a i’m not like i know
i’m in sales but i’m not a pressure
sales guy
if i can help you if you’re thinking
something that you want to do i may not
be the right person for that but i’ll
probably know where to steer you two as
well so open invite to the scaling up
nation just to reach out
scale nation i have been a fan of laith
charles since i met him years ago
he reminds me
of how i positioned myself and i don’t
want to say how many years ago that was
but i remember being very young
entering the awt community
not knowing people and seeing other
people that had knowledge that i really
wanted and i would ask people could i
work with you could you mentor me how
can we forge a relationship
where i could get some of that knowledge
but at the same time too i’m giving you
that you need and i’ve had many of my
mentors on this podcast
if you don’t have a mentor i don’t care
how old you are if you don’t have
somebody that you can speak with that
can give you advice that can give you
another point of view i really think
that you are missing out
now maybe you’re somebody that has a
mentor but you don’t have a mentee
so if you’re going to take you very well
better give as well and i think when you
have a spirit of giving the taking just
comes naturally people want to give it
to you don’t even have to take
but there is so much involved there’s so
much that you are going to get out of
sharing what you know
and sharing how you help other people
that you are going to be amazed at what
that experience will do
for you and lathe has always put himself
into a position where he could get to
know the people that could help him
along his journey so great job lade it
is no surprise that you were the first
recipient of the rising star award and
as i said
us in the rising tide mastermind we were
so proud that one of our own
received that very first award and when
i read what that award is for or who
that award is for
on our interview
it might as well have just had blade’s
name engraved right on who we’re looking
for for
nominees so if you know somebody that
fits that mold
by all means go to the awt website and
you can submit a nominee for the next
time they present that award
speaking of the awt the next convention
is going to be in vancouver
so we’re going to canada and folks that
is a beautiful city
you are going to love it i know a lot of
people are wondering about travel what
they have to do to get there well i will
tell you if you are crossing over a
border you need a passport and there’s
so many out there that don’t realize i
was one of these people
we were going on a scuba dive trip to
the bahamas
and my passport expired
three months after we were returning
well i’m fine right no big deal i’m well
within the expiration date
in fact i was not fine luckily a friend
of mine told me about this and i had
enough time to fix it but your passport
needs to be valid at least six months
after you return
from your trip so get your passports out
make sure that you’ve got at least six
months after you will be returning and
if your passport does expire within that
time frame
don’t wait go ahead and send that off
now because it is taking longer than
ever to get those passports back so
that’s one thing you can do to prepare
for next year we’re going to be having
tips and things to learn about the
convention so stay tuned to the scaling
up h2o podcast so we can share those
with you
later then i mentioned the mastermind
the rising tide mastermind lathe was one
of our founding members we started two
groups where those two groups are going
into their third year
and i am just so incredibly impressed
with all of the things that we do in the
rising tide mastermind you know a lot of
people give me credit for what happens
in the rising tide mastermind i might
have started those groups but the people
that are members within the rising tide
mastermind definitely make it what it is
day to day
now i know you expect for me to tell you
it’s the best thing ever and i really
think it is but i want you to hear
life is too difficult for you to do it
alone and i don’t know if the rising
tide mastermind is right for you
but i hope you will look into it i hope
you will look into a group to join if
you are not a member of a group already
where you can process issues where you
don’t have to go through things alone
where you have a list
of dozens of people
that you will call and they will take
your call because you think they might
have knowledge that you need access to
they might have experience that you need
access to folks if you do not have
something like that i urge you to please
look in to getting one hopefully it’s
the rising tide mastermind and if you
think it is i’d love to have a
conversation with you to see if you are
right for the group as well as the group
is right for you and of course if you
want to learn more you can go to
scalinguph2o.com forward slash
mastermind also during the interview
lathe mentioned the focus funnel that
comes directly from a book that we were
reading in the mastermind called
procrastinate on purpose well the author
of that book his name is rory vaden and
as luck would have it the scaling up
nation is going to hear from him
next week we’re going to hear all about
the focus funnel and what procrastinate
on purpose means from the author himself
folks i hope you join me next week where
i’ll be talking with rory vaden until
then have a great week folks
scout nation life is too short to do it
alone and that’s why i have been in a
mastermind for over a decade it’s why i
started the rising tide mastermind and
it’s why the rising tide mastermind is
so successful you do not need to face
your problems alone you don’t need to
face your issues alone you can learn
from others experiences so you don’t
have to repeat their mistakes and you
can get further faster because others
are giving you a hand to find out more
go to scaling up h2o.com forward slash
mastermind to see if this is the right
group for you