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[Music]
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[Music]
welcome to scaling up the podcast where
we scale up on knowledge so we don’t
scale up our systems one of my hopes as
you listen to this podcast is you are
always learning you’re always doing
something that’s going to benefit
what you know about a particular topic
sometimes we get caught up in the
day-to-day and it’s hard to give
ourselves that nudge to get to the next
level so each and every week our friend
james mcdonald is helping us with that
little nudge here’s our next james’s
challenge
[Music]
hello scaling up nation the next james
is challenged as we grow as an
industrial water treatment professional
drop by drop is
thoroughly dig through your company’s
website
how often do you visit your own
company’s website do you know what’s
even on it what technical information is
shared
even if you don’t know what’s on your
company’s website your prospects and
customers know that’s one way to learn
more about you
i’m always shocked by how many people
completely ignore their own website when
it can be stocked full of information
they can share to better inform their
prospects and customers
don’t be caught unaware by someone
asking you about information on your own
website be sure to share your experience
on linkedin by tagging it with hashtag
jc21 and hashtag scalinguph2o this is
james mcdonald and i look forward to
seeing what you share
thanks james you know nation i love our
industry i know you can’t listen to this
podcast and not know that and i
personally don’t understand why
everybody does not choose to be an
industrial water treater like us but hey
i guess that means there’s more out
there for us
nation i really like bringing you people
that you can identify with that do the
same day-to-day that you do speaking for
myself i know that i have made a bad day
better because i knew other people out
there were experiencing the same thing
that were getting through the same thing
and also
gave me somebody that i could call to
maybe give me that nudge of information
that i didn’t think of to get to the
solution so i love it when i can do
interviews where you can hear people
that do the same thing that you and i do
here’s that interview
my lab partner today is tammy phillips
of hoh how are you tammy
trace i’m wonderful thank you
well i’m so excited to introduce you to
the scaling up nation you and i got to
meet a couple of years ago when i came
up for one of your company events
and then not too long ago we got to take
a sales training class together
absolutely yes i we did meet at the
sales summit for hoh and that was
exciting to get to be with you on that
sales training class as well so
i know you i love you and i know the
scaling up nation will too can you tell
the scaling up nation a little bit about
yourself
so i am a business development manager
for hoh water technology i’ve been there
for about three years i come from a
background of healthcare with a degree
in building construction so
water treatment was new to me but my
main focus with hoh is actually bringing
in new business and sales and also
expanding existing partnerships within
the water treatment industry
with that being in healthcare in the
building construction it has been a huge
asset for me especially when going into
healthcare facilities and new
construction jobs to be able to
understand all of that so that has
opened up a lot of doors for me in the
water treatment industry and i also
currently serve on the board for asici
which is the central illinois chapter of
healthcare engineers
we’re all water treaters here but every
water trader has a different day-to-day
what is your day to day like
so um like i said i’m more business and
business development so my day varies i
also do some servicing out in the area
and i have about 15 accounts right now
that i’m currently servicing but my main
day is trying to focus on bringing in
new business so i may be cold calling um
whether it’s via phone or just you know
stopping by
accounts where i see they either have
steam or cooling towers
another aspect of my job is you know i
may be working with a mechanical
contractor that has had
issues in one of their accounts and they
need help with the water treatment so i
may stop in pull water samples do an
analysis for them make recommendations i
do competitive bidding out in the
territory for all of the mechanical
contractors that are betting you know
water specs for someone so really on a
day-to-day basis the day is never the
same and there may be one day i leave at
6 30 in the morning and not get home
till 6 at night and there may be you
know a day where i’m not starting my day
till eight but it’s it varies from day
to day so i’m just wanting to make sure
that everybody that i bring on board or
that i’m currently servicing is getting
the best service and value in their
industry
you know you and i took that sales class
together and it was very apparent to me
in the discussions that we had and the
workshops that you and i were were
placed together in that you are an
expert salesperson and we have so many
people that are out there
that maybe are a little timid to ask for
the sale or to at least begin to get
that next new client what’s a tip that
you can give them
for me it’s uh don’t be afraid to you
know knock on someone’s door
and if you don’t get the answer the
first time you want or the person you
want to continue to go in there it’s
persistence you know going back
um and the same thing with asking for
the sale you know when you’re done with
your
say you’re making your proposal and
don’t forget to ask for the sale you
know walking away with not asking for
that sale is
probably the most important thing you
know the least they can say is no i’m
not ready to do it yet and then ask them
for a time frame so when should i reach
back out to you yeah if you don’t ask
you’re never going to get it right
exactly tammy how did you find your way
into the water treatment industry so how
i actually got into the water treatment
industry is i had sent in my resume for
the job they were looking for a sales
and business development person and my
current position at the time was looking
to get eliminated from my previous
company so i wasn’t going to wait for it
to be eliminated because i didn’t want
to be without a job so this had come up
on indeed and i went ahead and applied
for it because like i said tia had
reached out to me and had indicated that
you know we don’t know if we actually
need somebody that knows water treatment
we just need
someone that can sell that’s kind of how
this position came about
and it’s the best thing that ever
happened right it is i actually love
what i do
and i want to talk about that a little
bit because for for some reason there
are not as many women in water treatment
as there should be i don’t know why that
is do you have any idea you know trace i
i that’s a tough question to answer
because i don’t know that answer you
know when i first started with hoh
i was the only one in the sales service
portion for hoh so it was interesting
for me to you know see that but uh since
i’ve been there i’ve been there right at
three years we have actually hired four
other women in the industry now as well
so
it’s it’s coming around but you know
it’s kind of interesting to see that
there’s not more than there are
everybody that i can think of that is of
the female persuasion in the water
treatment industry is wildly successful
so it seems to agree very well so i’m
not sure what that disconnect is maybe
maybe people just don’t know about it
hopefully you and i can spread the word
and uh everybody knows how good this
profession can be
i would agree with it because like i
said it’s been very challenging it’s
been fun and it’s been well worth it
what’s something you do in your day to
day that you just love doing
for me believe it or not i have a lot of
success cold calling and walking into
businesses just knocking on the door and
asking to talk to that person i can
usually walk out with a name a phone
number or an email um sometimes i can
even walk out with an appointment you
know it’s it’s asking for that
information that you know really gets me
excited and makes me want to cold call
all that much more
well tammy let’s break that down a
little bit because i think cold calling
is one of the things that just stop
people in their tracks they’re like oh
my gosh i’ve gotta
knock on this door or talk to somebody i
don’t know or get through a gatekeeper
what’s something that you do that you
can advise other people
that you know it’s not that bad this is
how you start
you know when i first started in sales
it was hard for me to walk in and cold
call but once you get to the point where
you’re used to it i mean don’t be afraid
to walk in everybody gets turned away at
some point but eventually you’re going
to get into a routine and know what
you’re you’re wanting to say when you
walk in
um just
continue being persistent and going in
you’ll eventually get comfortable doing
it and you know it will just open that
many more doors for you so i would say
persistence and not being afraid to to
do something even though you might not
want to do it at the very beginning once
you get accustomed to it
it makes it that much easier that’s
great advice a lot of people are scared
of being rejected
how do you deal with that
you know you get rejected a lot
just because you’re rejected by that
person maybe they’re not the person you
really need to talk to say maybe you
need to come back and do some research
on that company to find out you know
okay were they a gatekeeper were they
just not that person i wanted to talk to
i have had that many a times where you
know you think you’re to the right
person and you’re really not so just
circling back around and and looking at
that and maybe trying to figure out do i
need to talk to someone else or maybe
they’ve had a bad day
and they’re just don’t have time to to
talk to you so just don’t take it the
wrong way that you know you’re getting
shut down it may just be something else
on their plate or not the right person
to talk to
how do you prepare for a sales call
i’m one that i’m fly by the seat of my
pants kind of person so but i always
have my marketing material with me so if
i do get in the door and get to talk to
that person you know have your
information ready for them you know make
sure you know what you’re going to talk
about especially you may do a circle
around the building or google maps to
see what kind of systems they got
because a lot of times you can kind of
tell so
you know what you’re going in to ask
them you know first off
how did we ever prospect without google
maps
i can’t answer that because it is
amazing google maps are you know when
you bring it up there you’re like oh
there’s a cooling tower on that building
i’m going to stop there i’m going to put
it on my list so yeah it is it’s amazing
what google maps has done for us over
the years
tammy you mentioned you were involved
with cg do you think it’s very valuable
for somebody that’s in a sales
development role that they get involved
with an organization like that
yes i do because like i said it’s for
healthcare engineers this one is in
particular
so you get to actually meet some of the
engineers that are running the
mechanical rooms at these hospitals or
wherever they might be working at
they may be that person you want to talk
to regarding their water treatment so i
would absolutely recommend getting into
groups you know healthcare engineers or
even you know engineering in general in
your community or in your area because
it does lead to
you know leads down the road
now something i want to underscore is
you’re just not a member you’re involved
in a committee so you’re giving part of
your time you’re giving part of yourself
i’ve heard so many people say i’m not
wasting my money joining this
organization because i don’t get
anything out of it so can you speak a
little bit about how you feel you’ve got
to put something into it in order to get
out
i’ve been volunteering you know with
different groups over time you know even
in previous jobs so i don’t look at it
as i’m i’m giving my time um because i
think it is beneficial you know you’re
you’re helping maybe raise funds for um
scholarships you’re also just you know
giving your time back helping them you
know in their position maybe gaining
education credits
as well so there’s a lot of
opportunities there you know not just
the referrals but in helping someone
else as well
well i think you nailed it because it’s
all about your attitude and why you’re a
part of that organization and i’m sure
you’ve seen this
people will come in they’ll pay their
dues and they just want to they just
want to get leads
and i’m sure the people that are in the
organization they can see those people
from a mile away i would agree with that
so to me it’s about networking you know
this is a great way to build a network
you know it’s just not about referrals
it’s networking
tammy when you first started learning
about water treatment what were some of
the resources that you used
i actually can say um i had a lot of
mentors through the company that you
know helped me out in particular ryan
harris was great for me he did all most
of my training when i was first hired on
um he took the time to make sure i knew
how it worked you know how things were
supposed to be you know any questions i
should ask in the industry
so
he was a big part of that but i also
like to you know just the whole hoh team
in general you know they were a huge
asset you know and it really shows how
they support each other and how you work
together as a team i just can’t say
enough you know there’s so many people i
would like to mention you know as far as
how i learned my stuff it’s just crazy
whether it’s listening to uh your
podcast trace you know scaling up or
just doing webinars through other
companies you know just taking the time
to learn the new things you know whether
it’s calling up a co-worker or you know
being on you know the monthly technical
meeting that we have through our company
you know there’s so many
aspects and avenues to learn new things
and even with new customers customers
can give you an indication of you know
what they’re looking for or how things
are done and you’re like oh never
thought of it from that avenue so
there’s there’s many avenues to to
learning you know the water treatment
industry
so tammy a word that you mentioned that
is really near and dear to me is the
word mentor i’ve been mentored i am a
mentor and a lot of people they don’t
mentor somebody because that’s a scary
word they think it’s a huge job
description so when you use the term
mentor what does that mean to you
someone to go to when you don’t have the
answer or someone just to teach you
things and you know kind of walk you
in that direction you know that you need
to be going you know and making sure you
have what is needed to do the job you
know whether it’s uh answering your
questions or making sure you have your
equipment and even training mentoring
can be a lot of different things you
know whether you’re you’re going side by
side and just watching or teaching with
being a family-owned business hoh has
been a wonderful aspect for me you know
just the support that they give each
other as a team i can’t express that
enough how they come together to solve
problems and figure out this what is
what should be done for this customer or
vice versa so it just is a great company
to work for
well let’s explore that a little bit
because we have representatives of
companies listening we have owners of
companies listening so what would you
say a trait is that some of the best
companies to work for would have
i would say
leadership would be
a great one there you know if you don’t
have the right leadership then i don’t
know that you know someone’s going to
follow correctly and you know with with
hoh we have had a strong leadership
there i would say you know making sure
you’re
working together selflessly as one team
you know you’re not all going off in
different directions that’s another huge
aspect
when you’re working for a company you
want to make sure that you know you’re
doing the best you can whether it’s
servicing and following up you know
because if you don’t have people that
work together with a company that do
that then you know you usually see
companies kind of fall off the wayside
you know they’re like well i’m not
getting the service that i was promised
you know from this company but uh with
hoh it absolutely is they truly believe
in that you mentioned leadership and i
know that has
a textbook definition but what does that
mean to you
leadership to me is you know someone i
can look up to
someone i can go to
and just someone that you know makes you
feel like you’re a part of that team i
think everybody can be in a leadership
role with helping you you know there’s
there are so many leaders in our company
that i can’t imagine not having them
there
because you can call anyone up at any
time and they will stop what they’re
doing and give you an answer or put you
in a direction to get you to that answer
so
you know leadership is all about that
making sure that you’re helping the
other person
i think it was stephen covey that said
this but i might be messing it up he
said that you
lead people you manage things and so
many times our title is sales manager or
manager of something
and i think what you just touched on is
it’s that human aspect it’s a human to
human interaction and making sure that
that other human is getting what they
need
yes i would agree with you a hundred
percent on that tammy what’s something
that other water treaters do that you
just want them to stop doing
i think one of my biggest things that i
see in the industry is especially you
know when you’re working with a
potential client and you hear them say
well this person said this is what they
were going to give me so basically over
promising and under delivering so you
know when you walk in and you still see
that they’re having issues you know it’s
frustrating and you want to make sure
you’re not over promising and under
delivering that you’re giving them
exactly what you said
do you have a framework in which you
make sure that you never over promise
and under deliver
you know that we as a company have core
values so i i would say you know
following your core values with what
your company has established for you you
know don’t over promise something if
it’s not something you actually do
within the company
as a water treater what are you most
proud of
um i would say um
helping the prospect customer
succeed in getting the most out of their
water you know whether it’s the heating
and cooling system their budget you know
helping the facility team but
saving them time and money
is is a huge thing for them you know
being in the mechanical room you don’t
want to be
having to look to your water treatment
you know
three hours a day when if you set up the
right program for them they should be
able to run with it run a few tests and
you know be on their way doing other
things you know they shouldn’t be on top
of their water treatment all day long if
the program is running right
tammy what would you say the most
challenging part of your career has been
for me in the water treatment industry
it is coming from a background of health
care and knowing nothing about the water
treatment industry so
for me learning all of the technical
aspects that go into play with this
industry you know in the three years
i’ve been here i absolutely still learn
something new every day so
and i would say that probably for
anybody out in the industry there’s
things are always changing new equipment
is coming out so you know
take the time and learn the new things
or research it if you need to but yeah
for me the the most challenging was the
technical aspect of it
what are some things that you use to
help learn those
for me you know if i don’t know the
answer to a question or i don’t know
those technical things for me it’s
researching the products you know
jumping on calls reaching out to
co-workers
listening to those podcasts listening to
those webinars
there are so many avenues that you can
learn new techniques and i feel that
everybody learns in their own way
and like i said customers are a great
way to learn new things because they may
have a new product
out that you have are not familiar with
you know so i would say there there are
so many ways to learn new things out in
the field but
and just you know getting out and doing
it i i remember when i first started
ryan harris at the time he goes this is
the only way you’re going to learn this
controller i’m not going to show you he
goes just get on it and play with it you
know
you’re bound to mess up but you know
that’s the only way you learn is trying
to do it and then asking questions along
the way
yeah i think it was albert einstein that
had a quote that if you don’t make
mistakes you’re not doing new things
well tammy hopefully somebody will share
this podcast with a female that is
thinking about a career in the water
treatment industry what’s the message
you have for that person
i would say don’t be afraid
to step into the industry
i remember when i first started i was
like oh
how did i ever get into this but
for me it has been a very rewarding and
challenging career it makes you think
and you know it’s it’s something that i
absolutely enjoy doing i i never
imagined that this is something i would
have gotten into but
if you’re thinking about it absolutely
take the step forward it’s well worth it
well tammy i’ve got a few lightning
round questions for you these are the
same questions that i ask of all of my
guests so are you buckled up are you
ready yes i am
my first question is you now have the
ability to go back in time and speak
with your former self on your first day
as a water treater what would your
present day self give advice to your
first day water treat yourself oh
that’s a tough one trace um but i would
say you know make sure that you’re
listening to your peers
you know taking notes
everybody is different
just be yourself and make sure that you
can move forward ask the questions that
you need to
and just continue moving forward
you know because like i said there’s so
many things you can learn
but take notes
ask questions that that’s how you’re
going to learn things
tammy let me ask you i’ve seen lots of
people take notes but they never refer
to them do you have a specific method
that you use to review your notes
i do i actually have a trace i have a
folder so i try every time i’ve got
notes i try to stick it in there and
then i if i need to go back it’s like oh
yeah that’s in that folder so you know
everybody has different ways um i’ve
even put notes in my um iphone so that i
can go back and refer to it if i’m in a
customer and i don’t have time to pull
out my my big folder which i carry it in
my bag every day
but you know sometimes you can just go
back to your your notes and your phone
you know that that’s an easy way to um
get to something very quickly
so it sounds like you take time after
you make the original note to organize
it so you can find it in the future
yes i i absolutely do i i have a
file folder that’s probably about two
inches thick and i try to kind of
organize it by
you know whether it’s a cooling tower or
boiler system closed loop so or by
customer i’ve done that as well
when hollywood makes a movie about tammy
phillips who plays tammy
jennifer lawrence
all right are you familiar with jennifer
lawrence
i think i have her in mind
so she’s the one that she was one of the
main characters in the hunger games
that’s who i was thinking of and why did
you choose her um because she’s always
thinking ahead
and is planning for what is next
there you go
my last question actually my second to
last question if you could talk to
anybody throughout history who would it
be with and why
um so i had many
avenues to go here um but i picked one
because of
what we were talking about
women in the industry so i i kind of
went back and i thought who do i want to
reach out to
that has been successful in her career
and i would say amelia earhart
because of her determination and uh
wanting to accomplish and complete the
task in the aviation field
you know during that time frame so she
was probably one of the only women
in the aviation field but why was that
you know my advice would be you know
anyone can hold any position with the
right mindset
tammy thanks so much for sharing a
little bit about your experiences about
being an industrial water treater thanks
for coming on scaling up h2o
trace i do appreciate it thank you very
much for having me i truly enjoyed it
nation there you go someone who’s doing
the same thing that all of us are doing
we united are the scaling up nation
and i don’t know about you but that just
makes me feel good that we have a
community of people out there that we
can support each other that we can learn
from each other that we can make each
other better and when we do that our
entire
industry gets better and that is one of
the goals that i have i hope you have
that goal too and just by listening to
this podcast by sharing this podcast
with somebody who you think either
doesn’t know about this podcast or maybe
this is a message that they need to hear
you are helping raise that bar too
last year on episode 166 our halloween
episode
i recited edgar allan poes the raven
when conor parish asked me on episode
186 what was the hardest thing i ever
did
on this podcast it was hands down
recite the raven for all of you
it was difficult because i don’t do
things like that on a regular basis sure
i read sure i speak in public but i
don’t read poetry and i definitely have
never taken any classes on how to do
that but it’s something that
i really wanted to do and it’s something
that i knew that if i did it would
challenge myself now
we’ve talked on previous episodes when
you do the same thing each and every
day
you get in this rut some people might
even think they need to find a new job
because they are bored well folks if you
are bored in this industry you are doing
it wrong
challenge yourself
work within the outside of what your
comfort level is now you don’t have to
go way outside of that comfort level but
if you work on the outside boundary of
what is comfortable i promise you will
continue to get better and that’s
exactly what i did
with reading the raven and i have to say
that since i did that i started noticing
my inflection better
i started
noticing
little things that i say in speech and
every time i do a podcast i try to make
myself a little bit better and of course
i have the benefit that i get to listen
to myself that’s difficult at first
that’s a really difficult thing to get
over i promise you do get over it and
then you’re constantly critiquing
yourself and if you’re challenging
yourself like i do with how i speak
i’m always trying to work the next thing
in how do i make myself better how do i
communicate what i’m trying to say to
you
more clearly and i want to say that i
always did that but it was that episode
166 that really got me paying attention
to that so my challenge for you is to
work outside
of your comfort level so you can
continuously get better now tammy talked
a little bit about that when she was
talking about cold calling
so many people hate to cold call because
it’s outside of their comfort level and
as tammy told us the more you do it the
more comfortable you get with it and i
can tell you that is exactly what’s
happened here on the podcast that’s
pretty much what happened with
everything that i tried for the first
time the more i did it the more
comfortable i became with it
so if you identify something that scares
you you’re probably discovering what you
need to work on and if you
work on those areas i promise that those
most likely are the areas that are going
to make the biggest improvements in
every area
in your life
nation do you have a question that you
want me to answer on scaling up h2o well
i’ve got a really cool way that you can
ask your question to me
and i can answer that question for you
go to scalinguph2o.com
and click on our leave voicemail button
and you can record your voice asking me
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take care of yourself and do something
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care everybody
[Music]
nation it’s hard to improve the
day-to-day when we are stuck living in
the day today and for one hour a week
you can join the group at the rising
tide mastermind so you can work on the
business without being in the business
that one hour will change every other
hour of the week it’s magic it’s not
magic it’s how we get together it’s how
we process issues it’s how we encourage
each other and it’s how we just form
these common bonds around each other and
there’s a camaraderie that i promise you
will not find anywhere else to find out
more about the rising tide mastermind go
to
scalinguph2o.com forward slash
mastermind