Scaling UP! H2O

45 Transcript

The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.

0:08.2

0:12.8

welcome to scaling up the podcast for

0:11.0

0:14.8

water treatise by water treaters where

0:12.8

0:17.7

we’re scaling up on knowledge so we

0:14.8

0:19.8

don’t scale up our systems folks tres

0:17.7

0:22.9

Blackmore here and I am actually

0:19.8

0:27.2

recording this introduction at a

0:22.9

0:29.3

convention just for podcasters I know we

0:27.2

0:31.0

always go to the AWT annual convention

0:29.3

0:33.7

which we’re going to be talking about in

0:31.0

0:36.5

a few short minutes but I have actually

0:33.7

0:40.2

signed up and attended for the last two

0:36.5

0:42.7

days a convention for podcasters folks

0:40.2

0:44.0

three years ago a heck it was two years

0:42.7

0:47.1

ago I don’t even think I knew what a

0:44.0

0:50.2

podcast was now it’s been almost 18

0:47.1

0:53.9

months I’ve been hosting scaling up h2o

0:50.2

0:58.2

and it has been so much fun for me in

0:53.9

1:02.3

fact so much fun I wanted to invest more

0:58.2

1:05.4

of my time and more of my resources so I

1:02.3

1:09.3

could learn how to do this show better

1:05.4

1:12.9

for you this scaling up nation and I’m

1:09.3

1:16.6

learning so much here in fact I have

1:12.9

1:18.8

been taking so many notes I don’t know

1:16.6

1:21.4

how I’m gonna organize everything so I

1:18.8

1:23.7

can start creating some action items to

1:21.4

1:26.2

get these items to you I’ve started

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1:28.7

doing that and I’ve listed out the top

1:26.2

1:31.9

five things that I want to do and it’s

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1:35.9

my hope that you see in upcoming

1:31.9

1:40.2

episodes that I am bringing more concise

1:35.9

1:43.2

content to you in a way that allows you

1:40.2

1:46.1

to consume it in a much easier way and

1:43.2

1:50.0

I’m looking for things to do on my

1:46.1

1:53.8

website to allow us all to connect as a

1:50.0

1:56.4

community that much easier so among

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1:58.2

those I’m gonna try to organize my show

1:56.4

2:01.6

notes a little bit better folks there is

1:58.2

2:05.2

no secret about it I knew nothing about

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2:08.2

podcasting when I started this in April

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2:11.3

of last year and everything that I have

2:08.2

2:14.1

learned has been trial-by-fire

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2:15.9

but you guys have been great you’ve been

2:14.1

2:18.3

very patient with me as I’ve been

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2:21.0

experimenting with this platform and I

2:18.3

2:23.1

got to tell you I really enjoy

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2:25.2

bringing it to you I told you a couple

2:23.1

2:27.5

things that we’re gonna start doing many

2:25.2

2:30.3

of you have told me how much you

2:27.5

2:33.4

appreciate me bringing products that I

2:30.3

2:35.9

use in my life to you so they can help

2:33.4

2:39.1

you in your life but they’re a little

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2:42.1

difficult to find on our show notes page

2:39.1

2:45.7

so we’re gonna create a products page so

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2:49.0

you can very easily find the resources

2:45.7

2:52.0

that we mention on the show so you can

2:49.0

2:53.8

then find those and use those also and

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2:57.1

this is one of the coolest things that I

2:53.8

3:00.4

am really excited about as you know I

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3:03.5

answer questions on my show and I try to

3:00.4

3:04.8

keep the listeners anonymous well some

3:03.5

3:06.8

of you have reached out to me and said

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3:09.5

hey I don’t want to be anonymous I want

3:06.8

3:12.1

to hear my name on scaling-up

3:09.5

3:14.2

so I’ve heard you and I’m gonna give you

3:12.1

3:15.7

the option now if you want me to read

3:14.2

3:17.9

your name if you don’t want me to read

3:15.7

3:22.0

your name but I’m gonna go one step

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3:26.2

further I’ve actually created a space on

3:22.0

3:29.8

scaling up h2o comm where you can click

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3:33.7

on the right hand side of the page and

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3:37.3

you can record a message that comes

3:33.7

3:42.0

directly to me and my team of your

3:37.3

3:46.5

question and I will play you asking your

3:42.0

3:47.5

question right on the air so how cool is

3:46.5

3:50.1

that

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3:53.8

so that is live now we are doing that

3:50.1

3:56.5

right this second so go to scaling up

3:53.8

3:59.7

h2o comm and you can record your voice

3:56.5

4:01.9

and hear your question on the air I’ve

3:59.7

4:04.0

actually got to ask about that for you

4:01.9

4:06.6

in a couple of minutes but I want to

4:04.0

4:08.1

talk about a couple of things first one

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4:10.6

of the last things I want to mention

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4:14.0

about this podcast convention by the way

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4:17.6

it’s called podcast movement is it’s all

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4:21.0

about the connection with the audience

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4:23.5

every single presentation that I’ve been

4:21.0

4:26.1

to it they’ve been talking about you

4:23.5

4:28.3

have to give your audience a place to

4:26.1

4:30.9

connect and folks that’s the reason I

4:28.3

4:32.8

started this show that’s the reason I’m

4:30.9

4:34.3

trying to get some more materials out

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4:36.5

for you so

4:34.3

4:38.7

we don’t feel like we’re alone I know

4:36.5

4:41.7

you’re listening to me in your car

4:38.7

4:44.7

driving from account to account some of

4:41.7

4:47.4

us don’t even go into our home offices

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4:50.4

to see other water treaters on a regular

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4:50.8

basis and we feel extremely lonely out

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4:53.5

there

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4:56.1

well now we’re all part of the

4:53.5

4:59.1

scaling-up nation and we have a

4:56.1

5:02.0

community where we can communicate and

4:59.1

5:06.4

understand each other and the issues

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5:09.2

that we face each and every day I just

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5:11.3

created a platform you folks out there

5:09.2

5:14.1

are the ones that have created the

5:11.3

5:16.3

community and I want to make sure that I

5:14.1

5:19.7

give opportunities for the scaling-up

5:16.3

5:22.0

nation to continue to work with each

5:19.7

5:24.0

other so I’ve got some ideas that I’m

5:22.0

5:26.5

going to try to put into action over the

5:24.0

5:28.4

next couple of months so be listening

5:26.5

5:29.4

for that but the number one thing that

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5:32.6

they mentioned during these

5:29.4

5:35.0

presentations is to have a community

5:32.6

5:37.7

where people want to tell other people

5:35.0

5:40.9

about the community I had nothing to do

5:37.7

5:43.3

with that part that was all you and the

5:40.9

5:46.2

reason so many water treaters are

5:43.3

5:48.6

listening to scaling up is because of

5:46.2

5:51.6

the fine folks out there in the scanning

5:48.6

5:53.7

up nation and yes that’s you you have

5:51.6

5:57.2

gone out and you’ve told other people

5:53.7

6:00.9

about this show and you have been the

5:57.2

6:03.3

Evangelist for scaling up and my ratings

6:00.9

6:05.6

show that and that is because all the

6:03.3

6:07.8

hard work that you do and you continue

6:05.6

6:10.7

to do and I want to thank you for it

6:07.8

6:14.1

it’s very exciting when I see my ratings

6:10.7

6:16.2

go up very exciting when I get notes or

6:14.1

6:18.6

emails from the fine folks and the

6:16.2

6:21.8

scaling up nation saying I just received

6:18.6

6:25.1

my CWT or I just tried something new

6:21.8

6:28.5

that you mentioned on the show whatever

6:25.1

6:31.2

it was I love hearing stuff like that

6:28.5

6:34.5

and I love the fact that we’re all not

6:31.2

6:38.0

alone we are all now part of the scaling

6:34.5

6:41.5

up nation well we are as far as I know

6:38.0

6:44.9

the only water treatment podcast out

6:41.5

6:46.9

there and in the theme of water

6:44.9

6:47.7

treatment we actually have a holiday

6:46.9

6:50.6

coming up

6:47.7

6:54.2

now James McDonald CWT friend of the

6:50.6

6:58.0

show longtime scaling-up nation member

6:54.2

7:01.8

he actually has gone out and created a

6:58.0

7:06.0

holiday for us water treatment people it

7:01.8

7:10.2

is industrial water week and it is

7:06.0

7:13.2

October 1st through 5th we have our own

7:10.2

7:15.9

holiday how cool is that and how awesome

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7:18.7

is James McDonald for making that happen

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7:22.2

so for 5 days we’re going to be

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7:25.3

celebrating industrial water week so

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7:29.0

Monday is pretreatment Tuesday is

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7:33.2

boilers Wednesday is cooling Thursday is

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7:35.8

wastewater and Friday is careers now if

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7:37.8

you want to find out more about this

7:35.8

7:40.8

I’ve created a link that goes directly

7:37.8

7:46.8

to the industrial Water Week website if

7:40.8

7:51.7

scaling-up h2o comm /i ww that’s scaling

7:46.8

7:56.0

up h2o comm /i ww that’s industrial

7:51.7

7:58.3

water week and in preparation for this I

7:56.0

8:00.0

want to have James McDonald back on the

7:58.3

8:03.6

show where we’re gonna talk about that

8:00.0

8:08.4

and I thought how cool would it be if I

8:03.6

8:11.4

did a mini episode each and every day

8:08.4

8:14.8

surrounding the topic of whatever day

8:11.4

8:16.7

were on so for example on Mondays we’ll

8:14.8

8:18.6

talk about pretreatment on Tuesdays

8:16.7

8:20.4

we’ll talk about boilers on Wednesday

8:18.6

8:23.1

we’ll talk about cooling towers and

8:20.4

8:26.2

cooling systems on Thursdays we’ll talk

8:23.1

8:29.2

about wastewater and then on the fifth

8:26.2

8:33.3

which is Friday we will talk about

8:29.2

8:36.0

careers now here’s the ask that I have

8:33.3

8:40.3

for the scaling up nation I would love

8:36.0

8:42.3

for you to send me your topic specific

8:40.3

8:44.6

questions on what I just mentioned

8:42.3

8:47.9

boilers cooling towers pretreatments

8:44.6

8:50.8

waste waters and career but I thought it

8:47.9

8:54.6

would be so cool if you could hear your

8:50.8

8:57.6

own voice on scaling up so my ask is for

8:54.6

9:01.8

you to go to scaling up h2o comm and

8:57.6

9:05.1

click record voicemail and actually send

9:01.8

9:08.4

me your question with your voice I will

9:05.1

9:11.2

play you asking your question on the air

9:08.4

9:15.1

and then either I or an industry expert

9:11.2

9:19.9

in that area will answer your question

9:15.1

9:22.7

so help me make these five shows that I

9:19.9

9:24.8

really want to make and deliver that

9:22.7

9:27.8

content to you that I know you want to

9:24.8

9:32.0

consume by going to scaling up h2o comm

9:27.8

9:34.6

and recording your questions there well

9:32.0

9:37.3

before we even make it to industrial

9:34.6

9:41.1

water week which again is October 1st

9:37.3

9:43.6

through 5th we have the association of

9:41.1

9:46.7

Water Technologies annual convention

9:43.6

9:51.1

coming up in Orlando Florida September

9:46.7

9:53.2

26 through 29th as you all know out

9:51.1

9:56.8

there in the scaling-up nation this is

9:53.2

10:00.5

the one-stop-shop for us to speak with

9:56.8

10:02.6

every vendor just about that we will

10:00.5

10:05.5

ever need in the water treatment

10:02.6

10:09.0

industry of course the AWT does a great

10:05.5

10:12.3

job of having presentations there that

10:09.0

10:16.0

build us as water treaters and allow us

10:12.3

10:18.7

to be recharged and want to go back and

10:16.0

10:21.2

try new things and I’m happy to say that

10:18.7

10:24.2

I am actually presenting on two

10:21.2

10:25.7

different papers at the convention this

10:24.2

10:27.4

year so I’ll give you some more

10:25.7

10:30.3

information about that actually I’m kind

10:27.4

10:32.6

of moderating one and then the second

10:30.3

10:35.6

one I’ve done some trials and I’ll tell

10:32.6

10:38.3

you a little bit more about that as that

10:35.6

10:41.3

date comes up so I sure hope that you

10:38.3

10:43.9

can join us I would love to see you and

10:41.3

10:46.3

I’m going to be doing some things to

10:43.9

10:48.6

allow the scaling-up nation to connect

10:46.3

10:51.2

while we’re there and it’s my hope that

10:48.6

10:54.4

we could all come together and help each

10:51.2

10:57.6

other network and make the most out of

10:54.4

11:01.1

the 2018 convention so to learn more

10:57.6

11:04.2

about a WTS 2018 convention in Orlando

11:01.1

11:10.3

taking place September 26 through 29 go

11:04.2

11:14.6

to scaling up h2o comm /a WT 2018 once

11:10.3

11:16.5

again that’s scaling up h2o comm /a WT

11:14.6

11:19.7

2008

11:16.5

11:21.3

before we get to our guests and I gotta

11:19.7

11:24.1

tell ya I was a little nervous about

11:21.3

11:26.6

talking about products on this show but

11:24.1

11:28.8

the scaling-up nation has been so great

11:26.6

11:32.2

with letting me know that you are

11:28.8

11:34.6

interested in what I use in my life to

11:32.2

11:36.5

make things easier for me and of course

11:34.6

11:39.2

you know we’re always driving around our

11:36.5

11:42.0

cars we don’t have time to read books

11:39.2

11:45.1

but there’s so much information in books

11:42.0

11:48.2

and one of the biggest tools that I use

11:45.1

11:50.0

on a regular basis is audible and you

11:48.2

11:51.8

know that audible has been working with

11:50.0

11:54.9

scaling up for a couple of months now

11:51.8

11:58.3

and offering the scaling up nation one

11:54.9

12:01.6

free month and one free book if you go

11:58.3

12:04.3

to scaling up h2o com forward slash

12:01.6

12:06.8

audible many of you have done this and

12:04.3

12:11.2

many of you have written back to me and

12:06.8

12:13.0

told me how much you love listening in

12:11.2

12:15.2

the car of course when you’re not

12:13.0

12:17.9

listening to scaling up but in between

12:15.2

12:21.2

episodes you’re listening to books that

12:17.9

12:23.4

allow you to do what you do better and

12:21.2

12:26.8

I’m so happy for those emails please

12:23.4

12:29.9

keep those coming now today’s episode is

12:26.8

12:34.2

continuing with what we were talking

12:29.9

12:36.7

about last week so last week we brought

12:34.2

12:39.4

Daniel Perry on good friend of mine

12:36.7

12:42.1

owner of a chick-fil-a restaurant and it

12:39.4

12:45.3

was all about the incredible things that

12:42.1

12:48.7

they do and how they do them but they

12:45.3

12:50.8

were all based around core values now

12:48.7

12:53.2

the cool thing is is the folks out there

12:50.8

12:56.3

you find folks in the scaling-up nation

12:53.2

12:59.7

have come back to me via email and you

12:56.3

13:03.3

want to learn more about developing core

12:59.7

13:06.9

values so I thought let’s go ahead and

13:03.3

13:09.1

stay on that topic of core values and

13:06.9

13:13.3

working with the team and how we develop

13:09.1

13:17.5

all of these things so our guest today

13:13.3

13:20.4

is Rick Packer and Rick Packer works for

13:17.5

13:22.7

a company called the table group now the

13:20.4

13:25.6

table group is Pat Lynch CEO knees

13:22.7

13:28.3

company and Pat is one of my favorite

13:25.6

13:28.9

authors because of the material that he

13:28.3

13:33.1

write

13:28.9

13:34.5

it’s so awesomely well gonna say that is

13:33.1

13:38.2

that that’s not correct English well I

13:34.5

13:42.1

just said it and it allows us to be able

13:38.2

13:46.6

to build our teams better I have used

13:42.1

13:48.6

his books for years one of Pat’s most

13:46.6

13:51.5

famous books is called the five

13:48.6

13:54.4

dysfunctions of a team five dysfunctions

13:51.5

13:57.6

of a team basically it’s a fable about

13:54.4

13:59.3

this team that’s dysfunctional and it

13:57.6

14:02.7

takes you through the process of what

13:59.3

14:05.4

they did to get them to become a

14:02.7

14:07.6

functional team it’s one of my favorite

14:05.4

14:09.6

books it’s one of the things that we

14:07.6

14:11.9

definitely use in my company and when I

14:09.6

14:13.6

consult with other water treatment

14:11.9

14:16.3

companies and we’re working on team

14:13.6

14:19.0

building it’s something that I always

14:16.3

14:20.9

send before I head out to do the

14:19.0

14:22.7

consulting so they can start reading

14:20.9

14:25.2

that and start working with their teams

14:22.7

14:27.8

I hope you enjoy my interview with Rick

14:25.2

14:30.8

Packer Rick another good friend of mine

14:27.8

14:33.2

and Rick goes in and he takes the

14:30.8

14:35.3

material that Pat and his company with

14:33.2

14:38.9

the table group have and he works

14:35.3

14:42.4

one-on-one with teams to make them

14:38.9

14:45.2

function in the best capacity that they

14:42.4

14:48.0

can so enough of me talking about Rick

14:45.2

14:51.0

let’s go ahead and get to my interview

14:48.0

14:53.7

with Rick packer of the table group my

14:51.0

14:56.4

lab partner today is Rick packer of the

14:53.7

14:59.1

table group Rick’s so good to have you

14:56.4

15:01.8

in the studio today in the scaling-up

14:59.1

15:03.3

studio so how are you doing I’m doing

15:01.8

15:06.1

great trace thanks for having me today

15:03.3

15:08.2

absolutely well you are on with the

15:06.1

15:10.9

scaling up nation and everybody out

15:08.2

15:14.4

there in the scaling up nation wants to

15:10.9

15:16.3

know how they can be better at work and

15:14.4

15:17.3

I think that’s a good thing to want to

15:16.3

15:18.1

know because that’s what we’re going to

15:17.3

15:19.6

talk about today

15:18.1

15:21.4

yeah I’m excited to be here with you

15:19.6

15:23.2

this would be great awesome will retell

15:21.4

15:25.1

us a little bit about yourself yeah so I

15:23.2

15:27.3

live here in Atlanta I’ve been rated

15:25.1

15:29.0

Christy for 21 years we have three

15:27.3

15:31.5

daughters my oldest has heading off to

15:29.0

15:33.3

college this fall middle daughter in

15:31.5

15:36.0

high school and a youngest who is in

15:33.3

15:38.4

middle school Christy and I met at the

15:36.0

15:40.2

Ohio State University and

15:38.4

15:42.7

we’re both diehard Buckeyes

15:40.2

15:43.8

professionally I worked at CompuServe in

15:42.7

15:46.3

the early mid 90s

15:43.8

15:48.0

so I CompuServe will get acquired by a

15:46.3

15:52.4

large company like a fortune 20 company

15:48.0

15:55.5

in 97 and I rode that way for quite some

15:52.4

15:57.1

time and then my last six months there I

15:55.5

15:59.4

was kind of getting frustrated with my

15:57.1

16:01.9

role and I started cold calling this

15:59.4

16:03.7

leadership company and that’s how

16:01.9

16:06.8

Christy and I on the family ended up in

16:03.7

16:07.9

Atlanta because my last job there at

16:06.8

16:11.1

that company was in leadership

16:07.9

16:14.0

development and I called this author and

16:11.1

16:15.4

I said I love your stuff I think you’re

16:14.0

16:17.1

missing out on a big opportunity in the

16:15.4

16:19.2

marketplace and I want to work for you

16:17.1

16:21.7

and that’s how we ended up in Atlanta

16:19.2

16:23.5

from whoa hi Oh how about that yeah and

16:21.7

16:25.5

the author you’re talking about is of

16:23.5

16:28.1

course well that was John Maxwell oh

16:25.5

16:30.3

yeah okay so I ended up working for John

16:28.1

16:32.2

for a couple of years and then that’s

16:30.3

16:34.1

where I met Pat Lencioni which is now

16:32.2

16:37.1

the organization that I can solve for

16:34.1

16:39.1

the table group at the table group you

16:37.1

16:41.3

know one of the things that we do is we

16:39.1

16:44.5

you know we consult for executive teams

16:41.3

16:47.1

and CEOs and leaders usually for you

16:44.5

16:48.4

know a year or two but we work with

16:47.1

16:49.8

teams to help them get better and get

16:48.4

16:51.4

rid of dysfunction we’re gonna talk more

16:49.8

16:53.8

about that in a little bit help them

16:51.4

16:57.1

align on strategy so yeah Pat Lencioni

16:53.8

16:58.3

and I met back in 2003 his firm is the

16:57.1

17:00.1

table group and that’s where I do my

16:58.3

17:02.0

consulting so I’ve always been curious

17:00.1

17:04.2

where did the name the table group oh

17:02.0

17:06.5

yeah we get the question all the time so

17:04.2

17:08.6

with all the advances in technology over

17:06.5

17:10.4

the last you know 20 or 30 years we

17:08.6

17:13.0

believe that still the best piece of

17:10.4

17:15.8

equipment in an organization is the

17:13.0

17:17.8

table it’s where people get around to

17:15.8

17:19.2

have real conversations about the real

17:17.8

17:21.0

issues that they’re facing in the

17:19.2

17:22.5

marketplace and this is radio so they

17:21.0

17:25.8

can’t see it but we are around a table

17:22.5

17:28.6

right in our absolutely so I want to ask

17:25.8

17:31.1

this question because we have a mix of

17:28.6

17:33.7

people that listen to this show we have

17:31.1

17:36.2

business owners and we have people that

17:33.7

17:38.0

run kind of their own businesses within

17:36.2

17:42.4

a business because they’re out taking

17:38.0

17:46.1

care of clients so if I am listening and

17:42.4

17:48.8

I don’t run my own business why do I

17:46.1

17:50.3

need to keep listening yeah so I mean if

17:48.8

17:52.8

I think about

17:50.3

17:55.3

the 11 or so books that Pat has

17:52.8

17:57.1

published think about this the most

17:55.3

17:59.4

important organization in our lives is

17:57.1

18:01.0

our families and we’ve had clients over

17:59.4

18:03.4

the years tell us you know that book

18:01.0

18:04.9

that you guys you know talk about and

18:03.4

18:07.2

all your models come from you can apply

18:04.9

18:08.4

that to the family so you know the team

18:07.2

18:09.9

book that we’ll talk about here in a

18:08.4

18:11.5

little bit people have come back to us

18:09.9

18:15.4

and say we can apply that within our

18:11.5

18:17.0

family so over a number of years we got

18:15.4

18:19.1

this feedback that people were applying

18:17.0

18:20.9

to their families so Pat wrote a book

18:19.1

18:23.0

called the three big questions of the

18:20.9

18:24.9

frantic family so again if you think

18:23.0

18:27.1

about different organizations and the

18:24.9

18:29.0

most important one we believe is the

18:27.1

18:30.9

family this stuff is very you know

18:29.0

18:32.8

applicable there you know beyond the

18:30.9

18:34.7

family though I mean think about the

18:32.8

18:37.0

different types of organizations people

18:34.7

18:38.9

belong to outside of work so whether

18:37.0

18:40.2

it’s PTA whether you coach a little

18:38.9

18:41.2

league team whether it’s volunteer

18:40.2

18:42.9

groups at church

18:41.2

18:44.5

you’re an environment that requires

18:42.9

18:47.3

leadership and you’re probably either

18:44.5

18:49.3

leading a team or on a team but then

18:47.3

18:51.2

lastly kind of back at work if you’re

18:49.3

18:52.6

not the CEO maybe you’re a leader if

18:51.2

18:54.5

you’re not a leader you’re probably a

18:52.6

18:56.7

member of a team and in fact Pat’s

18:54.5

18:59.3

latest book is called the ideal team

18:56.7

19:01.1

player mm-hmm so again whether you own

18:59.3

19:03.0

your own company whether you’re a CEO a

19:01.1

19:04.5

lot of the different models and books

19:03.0

19:06.7

that wind up talking about today you can

19:04.5

19:08.0

apply at home and family in the

19:06.7

19:10.8

community or in your work environment

19:08.0

19:12.9

great reason to keep listening so let’s

19:10.8

19:14.8

talk about some of the books that you

19:12.9

19:16.4

mentioned and and the latest book and I

19:14.8

19:19.4

think it’s the latest book the advantage

19:16.4

19:21.0

and and when I read the advantage and

19:19.4

19:22.7

he’s saying no that’s not the latest

19:21.0

19:24.5

book but all my notes it says it’s the

19:22.7

19:27.5

advantage so we’re going to go with it

19:24.5

19:29.8

so we’ll talk about the latest book so

19:27.5

19:33.0

so stay tuned for that but with the

19:29.8

19:36.4

advantage when I read that you know it’s

19:33.0

19:39.1

a great analysis of all the other books

19:36.4

19:41.0

many of the other books that I read that

19:39.1

19:42.5

he had written before so let’s talk a

19:41.0

19:44.8

little bit about that yeah sure so it’s

19:42.5

19:46.1

passed only non fable book and we’ll

19:44.8

19:47.9

talk more about the fables I think here

19:46.1

19:50.5

in a few minutes but it combines a whole

19:47.9

19:52.7

bunch of different frameworks from five

19:50.5

19:54.8

of Pat’s previous books and it really

19:52.7

19:56.1

just outlines the entire consulting

19:54.8

19:58.2

process that we use with clients

19:56.1

19:59.5

ourselves so the five different books

19:58.2

20:01.5

that are kind of combined in the

19:59.5

20:03.2

advantage are the five dysfunctions of a

20:01.5

20:05.5

team death by me

20:03.2

20:08.4

very interesting title and we can talk

20:05.5

20:11.2

more about silos politics and turf wars

20:08.4

20:14.4

before obsessions of an executive and

20:11.2

20:16.7

the five temptations of a CEO so you

20:14.4

20:19.6

take all those books and combine them

20:16.7

20:21.0

into one overall model that are you know

20:19.6

20:23.2

the people who’ve read it ever spotted

20:21.0

20:26.1

so positively they say this is the book

20:23.2

20:28.4

that I need to use to run my business to

20:26.1

20:30.1

lead my team to lead my department or to

20:28.4

20:32.1

be a good great team member and we were

20:30.1

20:34.8

talking a little bit before we started

20:32.1

20:36.4

this show and you mentioned that when

20:34.8

20:38.4

you were trying to figure out writing

20:36.4

20:40.3

this book you were unclear if that was

20:38.4

20:42.6

going to take people away from reading

20:40.3

20:44.2

the original books or how that was going

20:42.6

20:45.7

to go and you shared something very

20:44.2

20:47.0

interesting with me do you mind sharing

20:45.7

20:48.4

that with the audience yeah sure I just

20:47.0

20:50.1

remember talking with Pat and all the

20:48.4

20:51.6

rest of the folks at the table group and

20:50.1

20:53.0

because all of his books up to that

20:51.6

20:54.5

point we’re fables and we were just

20:53.0

20:55.8

debating Oh should the advantage be a

20:54.5

20:57.5

fable or should it be a traditional

20:55.8

20:59.5

business book and of course we went down

20:57.5

21:01.0

the route of a traditional business book

20:59.5

21:03.0

and the response has been positive and

21:01.0

21:05.1

then of course what ends up happening is

21:03.0

21:05.9

people will read the advantage and then

21:05.1

21:08.6

they’ll want to get more information

21:05.9

21:10.3

let’s say on the five dysfunctions of a

21:08.6

21:12.2

team or death by meeting and then we’ll

21:10.3

21:14.0

go back and pick up those fables if you

21:12.2

21:16.2

will so that’s just been incredible to

21:14.0

21:17.7

see from our clients or from the people

21:16.2

21:19.7

who read our book just how they’ve

21:17.7

21:21.4

responded to the different formats fable

21:19.7

21:23.3

or traditional business book we

21:21.4

21:25.4

mentioned the word fable several times

21:23.3

21:29.1

and of course that is the the

21:25.4

21:31.3

cornerstone of how Pat Lencioni conveys

21:29.1

21:34.0

his message I’ll tell you a little bit

21:31.3

21:37.2

about my story but before we do what

21:34.0

21:39.3

exactly is a business fable so we say

21:37.2

21:41.7

that truth is stranger than fiction and

21:39.3

21:43.8

you know if if we would put into a

21:41.7

21:45.4

traditional business book the stories

21:43.8

21:47.1

and the examples that we see from the

21:45.4

21:48.6

clients we work with people wouldn’t

21:47.1

21:51.1

believe it because it’s we deal with

21:48.6

21:52.7

some difficult circumstances so we think

21:51.1

21:55.1

that it really helps carry the story

21:52.7

21:57.5

forward and keeps readers engaged

21:55.1

21:59.0

because one of the most common things

21:57.5

22:01.6

that we hear back from people operating

21:59.0

22:03.7

the book is I see myself I see my

22:01.6

22:06.0

colleagues I see my boss I see my team

22:03.7

22:08.2

members in the story line of those books

22:06.0

22:11.0

because it just it feels so real for

22:08.2

22:13.3

them and it’s just been very successful

22:11.0

22:15.1

for Pat plus when Pat was younger I

22:13.3

22:16.3

think in his college years he was

22:15.1

22:18.7

playing around with some

22:16.3

22:20.1

new screen writing some playwrights and

22:18.7

22:22.1

some other things like that so it’s very

22:20.1

22:24.5

natural for him as a creative and very

22:22.1

22:28.3

curious type person how about that well

22:24.5

22:30.8

ice I have seen the reason for his

22:28.3

22:32.7

madness why he does this fable I got to

22:30.8

22:34.3

tell you I am NOT a fan of the business

22:32.7

22:36.6

fable I don’t want to learn about

22:34.3

22:37.9

fictitious people that don’t exist and

22:36.6

22:40.4

they’re going through this fictitious

22:37.9

22:42.5

story tell me what I need to do and

22:40.4

22:44.0

apply it and later a friend of mine Jace

22:42.5

22:45.7

Brooks said well trace just go to the

22:44.0

22:48.4

very last chapter and you can get that

22:45.7

22:52.5

but I know that at the time but a couple

22:48.4

22:54.2

of years ago as a team we read the five

22:52.5

22:56.7

dysfunctions of a team and I think

22:54.2

22:58.5

that’s the best book that he is ever

22:56.7

23:01.4

written I think it’s one of the best

22:58.5

23:04.3

business books ever written because if

23:01.4

23:06.7

you can’t establish those five items

23:04.3

23:07.8

forget what your plans are and I know

23:06.7

23:09.6

we’re going to talk about that a little

23:07.8

23:11.9

bit later but if you can’t get those

23:09.6

23:13.6

five items right you don’t have a prayer

23:11.9

23:15.4

of everybody rolling in the right

23:13.6

23:17.8

direction and you have a whole bunch of

23:15.4

23:22.3

things going on in between there but by

23:17.8

23:25.1

having that in the fable format my team

23:22.3

23:27.2

who did not want to read a business book

23:25.1

23:28.5

the people on there there was like oh no

23:27.2

23:30.1

we don’t want to read a business book

23:28.5

23:32.8

they actually got into the story and

23:30.1

23:35.3

because they enjoyed the story they

23:32.8

23:37.9

learned the message that Pat was writing

23:35.3

23:41.6

about so I have seen the light I

23:37.9

23:42.9

understand why he does what he does yeah

23:41.6

23:44.9

it’s very compelling for the reader

23:42.9

23:46.3

because to your exact point there are

23:44.9

23:47.6

some people in our organization who love

23:46.3

23:49.0

the traditional business book for the

23:47.6

23:51.1

exact reasons that you just mentioned

23:49.0

23:53.6

and others who need that storyline to

23:51.1

23:55.1

draw them into the reason that it need

23:53.6

23:57.5

to learn it and then apply it back in

23:55.1

24:00.3

the workplace so obviously it’s not the

23:57.5

24:03.5

latest book but it’s one of the later so

24:00.3

24:06.5

the advantage let me ask you what is the

24:03.5

24:08.0

advantage yeah so what Pat did in that

24:06.5

24:10.6

book and what we do in our consulting

24:08.0

24:11.4

practice is we want to help clients do

24:10.6

24:13.9

several things

24:11.4

24:16.1

one is we’re going to break down in very

24:13.9

24:18.6

simple terms the two requirements for

24:16.1

24:21.0

success and those are we have to be

24:18.6

24:23.3

smart and the second one is you have to

24:21.0

24:24.7

be healthy but what most business

24:23.3

24:26.8

leaders the business people pay

24:24.7

24:29.5

attention to is just the smart side of

24:26.8

24:31.2

the equation which really is about men

24:29.5

24:32.9

tricks and numbers and driving growth

24:31.2

24:35.2

and if you think about a lot of people’s

24:32.9

24:37.0

backgrounds or education even

24:35.2

24:39.5

conferences people attend it’s all about

24:37.0

24:41.4

the decision sciences of what that

24:39.5

24:43.5

school or business or conference is all

24:41.4

24:46.0

about and a lot of leaders do some have

24:43.5

24:47.5

a muscle memory to consider or look at

24:46.0

24:49.5

the other half of the equation and that

24:47.5

24:51.2

is are we healthy things like minimal

24:49.5

24:52.7

politics high levels of trust high

24:51.2

24:55.0

levels of clarity low levels of

24:52.7

24:57.4

confusion low levels of politics high

24:55.0

24:59.1

productivity high morale low turnover

24:57.4

25:01.0

and when you when you think of the

24:59.1

25:02.2

simplicity between oh yeah there are

25:01.0

25:03.4

smart components that run an

25:02.2

25:05.0

organization there are healthy

25:03.4

25:07.5

components we just don’t know how to

25:05.0

25:09.8

quantify the healthy stuff so we don’t

25:07.5

25:11.8

pay attention to it but a classic

25:09.8

25:13.0

example is something very simple so

25:11.8

25:15.2

let’s say you’re having a team meeting

25:13.0

25:16.7

in this budget season and you walk into

25:15.2

25:17.8

the room you pass out a spreadsheet and

25:16.7

25:20.3

we’re all looking at you know next

25:17.8

25:21.8

year’s budget well the conversation

25:20.3

25:23.2

isn’t all that engaging you see what the

25:21.8

25:24.7

numbers you know what they are but then

25:23.2

25:26.7

after the meeting a team member pulls

25:24.7

25:28.3

another colleague aside and says hey I

25:26.7

25:30.9

did not want to say this in the meeting

25:28.3

25:34.0

but in right there there’s the issue

25:30.9

25:36.3

meaning this the meeting was a very

25:34.0

25:37.8

smart left-brain linear conversation on

25:36.3

25:39.1

the financials and the reality of what

25:37.8

25:41.7

next year’s budget gonna look like

25:39.1

25:43.1

however the undercurrent was that was an

25:41.7

25:45.1

unhealthy meeting because people weren’t

25:43.1

25:47.4

comfortable to speak up in the meeting

25:45.1

25:49.0

itself about the realities of what

25:47.4

25:50.5

they’re dealing with so what we think

25:49.0

25:52.0

the combination of smart and healthy is

25:50.5

25:55.4

what’s required for organization to be

25:52.0

25:56.6

successful so therefore we have four

25:55.4

25:58.1

disciplines of a healthy organization

25:56.6

26:01.0

now let’s go through them very very

25:58.1

26:02.6

quickly okay the first one is to build a

26:01.0

26:03.7

maintain a cohesive leadership team and

26:02.6

26:05.2

when we come back and talk about the

26:03.7

26:07.2

five dysfunctions in a couple of moments

26:05.2

26:09.0

I’ll break that down for you in like you

26:07.2

26:10.9

know as much detail as you want but the

26:09.0

26:13.1

first thing is let’s build a maintain a

26:10.9

26:15.3

cohesive leadership team the second one

26:13.1

26:17.9

is to create clarity with this caveat

26:15.3

26:20.1

the leadership team of the organization

26:17.9

26:22.9

needs to create clarity together as a

26:20.1

26:25.6

team not in isolation not where the CEO

26:22.9

26:27.3

or a leader on the team comes down from

26:25.6

26:29.1

the mountaintop and says I figured out

26:27.3

26:31.3

an extra strategy here’s our goals and

26:29.1

26:32.6

objectives that’s what we’re doing the

26:31.3

26:34.7

key thing here is that we’re building on

26:32.6

26:36.7

the first discipline of gonna maintain a

26:34.7

26:38.6

cohesive leadership team we’re now the

26:36.7

26:41.1

leadership team has to create clarity

26:38.6

26:42.6

together and we have six critical

26:41.1

26:44.1

questions that we ask

26:42.6

26:46.1

our clients to walk through that’s in

26:44.1

26:48.0

the advantage from the clarity stuff so

26:46.1

26:49.7

the first question is why does the

26:48.0

26:51.5

organization exist beyond making money

26:49.7

26:53.2

kind of a core purpose statement the

26:51.5

26:55.1

second one is how are we going to behave

26:53.2

26:57.4

where we help a client define what are

26:55.1

26:59.9

their core values the third one is what

26:57.4

27:01.2

do we do so when we say what do we do

26:59.9

27:03.0

when we ask that question this isn’t

27:01.2

27:05.1

your you know a typical long drawn-out

27:03.0

27:07.1

mission statement that has everything

27:05.1

27:08.8

all road under it we just want the

27:07.1

27:11.1

client whether they read the advantage

27:08.8

27:13.1

or work with us that one simple

27:11.1

27:15.8

statement with no marketing adjectives

27:13.1

27:17.8

no best-of-breed no world class nonsense

27:15.8

27:19.7

just what do we do for whom when and

27:17.8

27:21.9

where and having the simplicity of that

27:19.7

27:23.5

written down really allows dis not the

27:21.9

27:25.5

leadership team but the rest the

27:23.5

27:26.6

organization to fully understand this is

27:25.5

27:28.5

the business that we’re in and the

27:26.6

27:30.9

business were not in that’s empowering

27:28.5

27:33.0

it is when you get that right but we

27:30.9

27:34.3

don’t to be glossy or marketing and some

27:33.0

27:35.8

of these statements you may not ever

27:34.3

27:38.4

publish you may not ever put on a

27:35.8

27:40.7

website it’s really for the people

27:38.4

27:42.0

inside the organization to have clarity

27:40.7

27:44.5

to help them make a really good decision

27:42.0

27:47.3

great point so real quick the fourth one

27:44.5

27:49.1

is strategic anchors meaning when we are

27:47.3

27:50.9

about to make a strategic decision as an

27:49.1

27:52.5

organization one of the couple of things

27:50.9

27:54.6

that we use as filters and we’re about

27:52.5

27:56.3

to make those decisions and if we have

27:54.6

27:58.5

more time I go into detail there our

27:56.3

28:01.5

fifth question is really critical and

27:58.5

28:03.7

it’s what’s most important right now

28:01.5

28:06.1

or said differently what’s the single

28:03.7

28:07.9

most important thing that we as an

28:06.1

28:09.4

organization need to focus on for the

28:07.9

28:11.3

next six to twelve months and what’s key

28:09.4

28:13.6

to that question which makes that

28:11.3

28:15.7

conversation both fun and interesting

28:13.6

28:18.2

and frustrating is the word single

28:15.7

28:20.2

what’s the single most important thing

28:18.2

28:21.7

that we need to focus on for the next

28:20.2

28:23.8

six to twelve months that’s a very

28:21.7

28:26.7

dynamic conversation and then the final

28:23.8

28:29.2

six question unruhe clarity is roles and

28:26.7

28:30.9

responsibilities who does what who on

28:29.2

28:32.3

the leadership team or who want any team

28:30.9

28:34.6

in the organization just what are they

28:32.3

28:36.2

responsible for and we have clarity

28:34.6

28:38.3

amongst the team as to what our

28:36.2

28:40.0

colleagues are responsible for well let

28:38.3

28:41.7

me ask so these are great questions

28:40.0

28:44.1

these are very thought-provoking

28:41.7

28:47.5

questions these are very deep questions

28:44.1

28:49.4

so when you work with clients that have

28:47.5

28:51.7

never thought in this way

28:49.4

28:53.9

how do you get everybody one to feel

28:51.7

28:55.7

safe around the table so they can talk

28:53.9

28:59.1

about this stuff and then what’s the

28:55.7

29:00.6

benefit of before and after when all

28:59.1

29:02.7

these questions are figured out yeah so

29:00.6

29:04.3

great question so let’s bounce up a

29:02.7

29:06.9

couple layers back to smart and healthy

29:04.3

29:09.6

for a moment so when clients ask us to

29:06.9

29:10.4

come in and do just plain old strategic

29:09.6

29:12.2

planning for them

29:10.4

29:14.7

the answer is we could do that but why

29:12.2

29:16.4

because if the final outcome of just a

29:14.7

29:18.8

strategic planning conversation is to

29:16.4

29:21.0

get answers to questions like these on a

29:18.8

29:22.7

piece of paper if the team that came up

29:21.0

29:24.0

with that is not tight and cohesive to

29:22.7

29:26.1

begin with we know they’re gonna have

29:24.0

29:27.1

execution issues down the road so it’s

29:26.1

29:28.6

the combination of both smart and

29:27.1

29:30.8

healthy that really gets after this

29:28.6

29:33.4

likewise which is kind of the opposite

29:30.8

29:34.7

of your question if an organization asks

29:33.4

29:37.3

us to come in and help them do

29:34.7

29:39.3

team-building like we could do that but

29:37.3

29:41.2

why because if we go outside and do

29:39.3

29:43.5

trust Falls and ropes courses or a

29:41.2

29:44.9

cooking class together what happens is

29:43.5

29:46.9

we come back into work the following day

29:44.9

29:48.9

and we’re the same as when we left

29:46.9

29:51.3

because we did not root the

29:48.9

29:53.0

conversations into the real reason why

29:51.3

29:54.8

the team existed and that’s to

29:53.0

29:56.1

accomplish something what’s the result

29:54.8

29:58.2

we’re shooting for what’s the goals the

29:56.1

30:00.0

objectives and the strategies so that’s

29:58.2

30:01.7

why when a team has to go through some

30:00.0

30:03.8

strategic planning stuff or get answers

30:01.7

30:06.1

to questions like this down on paper

30:03.8

30:08.0

it’s important that the team is working

30:06.1

30:09.4

on becoming more cohesive and it’s also

30:08.0

30:11.1

important when you do team-building that

30:09.4

30:12.6

you’ve been real conversations as to

30:11.1

30:14.4

what you’re trying to strive for in

30:12.6

30:16.7

those types of conversations now on the

30:14.4

30:18.8

backend so what really is key about the

30:16.7

30:20.3

execution of this when you install these

30:18.8

30:21.9

clarity questions really gets into the

30:20.3

30:23.9

third and fourth discipline of this more

30:21.9

30:25.6

disciplines model okay so the third one

30:23.9

30:27.7

is to over communicate clarity

30:25.6

30:29.5

so once the leadership team or again any

30:27.7

30:31.4

departmental team comes up with the type

30:29.5

30:33.5

of clarity that they are responsible for

30:31.4

30:35.7

now they have to cascade the heck out of

30:33.5

30:37.0

this and we say over and over and over

30:35.7

30:37.3

and over and over and over and over

30:37.0

30:39.1

again

30:37.3

30:41.4

seven times there’s magic in the number

30:39.1

30:42.5

seven a lot of research suggests that

30:41.4

30:44.7

people need to hear a message

30:42.5

30:46.2

approximately seven times before they

30:44.7

30:48.3

start paying attention to what’s even

30:46.2

30:51.8

being said so we try to coach our

30:48.3

30:54.0

leaders towards is get used to repeating

30:51.8

30:56.4

yourself to the point where you’re tired

30:54.0

30:58.9

of repeating yourself the same exact

30:56.4

31:01.1

message is over and over again and tie

30:58.9

31:01.9

what it is you’re communicating inside

31:01.1

31:04.0

your organization

31:01.9

31:06.7

back to your clarity so let me ask you

31:04.0

31:09.4

about that so if I say the exact same

31:06.7

31:11.2

thing in the exact same way to my people

31:09.4

31:13.5

over and over and over again they’re

31:11.2

31:15.7

gonna stop listing so obviously we make

31:13.5

31:17.4

little differences perhaps we might have

31:15.7

31:19.1

different media we use that’s not what

31:17.4

31:21.5

you’re suggesting absolutely you do have

31:19.1

31:23.2

to get creative but you and I both have

31:21.5

31:25.0

worked with people before both that were

31:23.2

31:27.1

bosses of ours and perhaps subordinates

31:25.0

31:28.6

of ours at some point that they need to

31:27.1

31:30.5

hear what you communicated to them last

31:28.6

31:32.6

week last month last quarter last year

31:30.5

31:34.0

is still as important today as when you

31:32.6

31:35.3

originally communicated it otherwise

31:34.0

31:37.0

they’re thinking well they haven’t

31:35.3

31:38.7

mentioned it in quite some time maybe

31:37.0

31:40.4

this isn’t as important as it used to be

31:38.7

31:41.7

a great point so that’s just something

31:40.4

31:43.2

to keep in mind but yeah you have to be

31:41.7

31:44.9

creative and how you go through so and

31:43.2

31:46.8

perhaps the listeners of the show should

31:44.9

31:48.5

listen to this show seven times because

31:46.8

31:51.1

of course that will help my ratings I

31:48.5

31:52.7

appreciate that all right so what’s

31:51.1

31:54.6

number four yeah the fourth one real

31:52.7

31:56.0

quick is just reinforced clarity through

31:54.6

31:57.7

human systems so basically if you think

31:56.0

31:59.2

about creating and maintaining a

31:57.7

32:00.5

cohesive leadership team and then you’re

31:59.2

32:02.7

creating clarity and then you’re

32:00.5

32:04.9

cascading clarity ultimately at the end

32:02.7

32:07.6

of the day it’s like how is this gonna

32:04.9

32:09.7

be integrated into our organization and

32:07.6

32:11.5

we just call it human systems meaning if

32:09.7

32:13.9

you answer the second question on core

32:11.5

32:16.4

values have you now embedded that into

32:13.9

32:18.2

your hiring process your firing process

32:16.4

32:21.2

and your recognizing and rewarding

32:18.2

32:23.2

process or is it just a piece of clarity

32:21.2

32:24.8

that you put on paper so if a lot of the

32:23.2

32:28.0

decisions that the leadership team are

32:24.8

32:29.8

making if that doesn’t turn itself into

32:28.0

32:31.5

some systems and processes in the

32:29.8

32:33.2

organization then we just had great

32:31.5

32:34.8

conversations that we don’t embed into

32:33.2

32:37.0

the organization but what’s key on this

32:34.8

32:38.7

though is sometimes you can’t over

32:37.0

32:40.8

script it like putting too many

32:38.7

32:42.2

processes inside the organization just

32:40.8

32:43.9

becomes burdensome and now it’s a

32:42.2

32:45.9

bureaucracy so you just have to be

32:43.9

32:48.6

careful as to how much you formalize it

32:45.9

32:50.7

versus it’s still one of those things

32:48.6

32:52.7

that you can edit and you can change and

32:50.7

32:54.2

you adjust as organization grows I will

32:52.7

32:55.8

tell you that’s something that we

32:54.2

32:58.6

struggle with here at Blackmore

32:55.8

33:01.2

Enterprises we do want to have processes

32:58.6

33:03.5

that do exactly what you said but every

33:01.2

33:05.6

time we start writing them is it not

33:03.5

33:07.3

enough or is it too much because I never

33:05.6

33:10.3

want to get to the point where I’m

33:07.3

33:13.0

taking somebody’s ability to make too

33:10.3

33:15.2

for the reason that I hired them because

33:13.0

33:18.2

they’re following a process I want them

33:15.2

33:20.8

to think so is there any magic tool that

33:18.2

33:22.9

you can use to say this is how far you

33:20.8

33:24.2

want to go and the rest you’ve got to

33:22.9

33:25.7

trust your people that you got the right

33:24.2

33:27.7

people there so my advice is that’s

33:25.7

33:29.2

pretty simple it’s this living the

33:27.7

33:31.1

tension of what you just stated meaning

33:29.2

33:32.6

you don’t want to over engineer it but

33:31.1

33:33.4

you also can’t be so big that no one

33:32.6

33:35.7

understands where you’re communicating

33:33.4

33:38.4

and just as a leader the advice is

33:35.7

33:39.9

embrace the tension that both of those

33:38.4

33:42.4

create which causes you and your

33:39.9

33:44.0

leadership team to say okay are we over

33:42.4

33:45.6

engineering this are we making our dress

33:44.0

33:47.1

policy here at the workplace way too

33:45.6

33:49.1

complicated and as a fill up twelve

33:47.1

33:51.5

pages of our employee manual and if so

33:49.1

33:53.5

we over engineered this thing so twelve

33:51.5

33:55.1

pages on the jeans to wear for casual

33:53.5

33:57.0

Friday is probably not the best course

33:55.1

33:57.5

are organizations who have done just

33:57.0

33:59.8

that

33:57.5

34:01.4

that’s too much well fair enough well I

33:59.8

34:03.8

can’t help but notice you know of the

34:01.4

34:05.9

four disciplines one deals with making

34:03.8

34:08.8

sure we have a good team and all the

34:05.9

34:10.2

other ones are being about clarity hmm

34:08.8

34:11.6

yeah it is creating clarity over

34:10.2

34:13.2

communicating clarity and then

34:11.6

34:14.3

reinforcing clarity through us so

34:13.2

34:16.3

clarity is pretty important in this

34:14.3

34:17.8

process critic critical but go back to

34:16.3

34:20.0

the original statement I made and that

34:17.8

34:21.9

is the team creating clarity together

34:20.0

34:23.3

that is essential because when we get to

34:21.9

34:24.1

the team model when I’m going because it

34:23.3

34:26.2

is all integrated

34:24.1

34:28.9

people need to have the opportunity to

34:26.2

34:31.5

weigh in to by him weigh in to buy and I

34:28.9

34:34.3

love that and and I can think of

34:31.5

34:36.9

situations where people have told me

34:34.3

34:41.3

Trace you’re going to do this and

34:36.9

34:43.3

because I didn’t have the ability to say

34:41.3

34:46.1

what I thought about it I probably

34:43.3

34:48.0

secretly made it fail so can we talk

34:46.1

34:50.5

about that for a moment why not okay so

34:48.0

34:52.2

I’ll put this in the context in a few

34:50.5

34:53.7

moments when we get through the the team

34:52.2

34:55.3

model is this counseling is this what

34:53.7

34:57.5

we’re doing this or what fine I like

34:55.3

34:59.1

that so when we talk about commitment in

34:57.5

35:01.0

the team environment which is right in

34:59.1

35:02.1

the center of our team model you’ve

35:01.0

35:03.9

already heard me say we need to give

35:02.1

35:07.7

people the opportunity to weigh in to

35:03.9

35:09.4

buy-in and when we do that though one of

35:07.7

35:11.0

the dangers that organizations can get

35:09.4

35:13.3

into is that they want to lead from a

35:11.0

35:15.4

basis of consensus right so is everybody

35:13.3

35:17.6

okay with this is everybody on board is

35:15.4

35:20.1

everybody you agree and if we’re making

35:17.6

35:21.4

decisions on a basis of consensus the

35:20.1

35:22.2

result is going to be a very mediocre

35:21.4

35:24.0

decision

35:22.2

35:25.8

as we’ve waited too long the competition

35:24.0

35:28.0

has passed us up I’m just trying to help

35:25.8

35:29.9

all of you feel good versus it being a

35:28.0

35:31.7

really good decision so let’s kind of

35:29.9

35:35.1

debate something for a moment and that

35:31.7

35:37.1

is if we get to topics at the leadership

35:35.1

35:39.2

level that have risen in the ranks of

35:37.1

35:39.7

the organization that we have to deal

35:39.2

35:41.9

with

35:39.7

35:43.5

I would hope when those topics make it

35:41.9

35:45.6

to the table there’s a natural

35:43.5

35:47.1

disagreement because you’re going to

35:45.6

35:49.2

deal with the most difficult topics in

35:47.1

35:51.2

the organization so if that’s the case

35:49.2

35:52.5

there should be natural disagreement how

35:51.2

35:53.8

are you going to deal with that we want

35:52.5

35:56.1

to talk about that in a moment but I do

35:53.8

35:58.5

know this you need to be okay as a

35:56.1

36:01.3

leadership team walking out of a meeting

35:58.5

36:03.8

being in support of precisely when you

36:01.3

36:06.3

disagree with and that’s the challenge

36:03.8

36:08.3

and the challenge on a team really is

36:06.3

36:10.1

how do we get people to be in support of

36:08.3

36:12.4

when they precisely disagree with and

36:10.1

36:14.1

there’s multiple answers I don’t know

36:12.4

36:15.6

that this is the silver bullet but I see

36:14.1

36:18.3

it work with a lot of our clients and

36:15.6

36:20.9

that is this people need to have the

36:18.3

36:23.8

opportunity to feel like they were heard

36:20.9

36:25.5

as the decision is being made and that

36:23.8

36:27.9

is such an art not so much of a science

36:25.5

36:30.0

but it’s an art that a leader possesses

36:27.9

36:32.7

well they help team members not feel

36:30.0

36:36.7

entertained right not feel manipulated

36:32.7

36:39.6

but a leader can help a follower feel

36:36.7

36:42.0

like they were truly listened to and

36:39.6

36:44.0

their opinion was considered as the

36:42.0

36:45.5

decision was being made and when you can

36:44.0

36:47.4

do that as a leader that is pretty

36:45.5

36:49.0

special because now team members can

36:47.4

36:51.2

walk out of the room supporting it

36:49.0

36:53.4

precisely when they disagree as long as

36:51.2

36:55.6

they felt heard that’s great so all

36:53.4

36:58.5

these things of course are leading to

36:55.6

37:01.0

the five dysfunctions of a team that’s

36:58.5

37:03.1

right the things that don’t work so I

37:01.0

37:05.3

always get confused of how to tell

37:03.1

37:07.2

people about this book because all the

37:05.3

37:08.7

five dysfunctions of team but it doesn’t

37:07.2

37:10.5

really teach you the dysfunctions I

37:08.7

37:12.9

guess it shows you the dysfunctions to

37:10.5

37:15.8

teach you the proper functions so how do

37:12.9

37:17.0

you even explain this so yeah the

37:15.8

37:19.0

original book title I think was

37:17.0

37:21.6

published back in 2002 was called the

37:19.0

37:23.6

five dysfunctions of a team and when Pat

37:21.6

37:25.2

wrote the advantage you know we were at

37:23.6

37:26.9

first of course the book but we also

37:25.2

37:28.6

referred to it as the five behaviors of

37:26.9

37:30.9

a team or the positive way of looking at

37:28.6

37:32.6

it but we kind of use them as terms

37:30.9

37:34.6

changeably but yeah there are five

37:32.6

37:36.1

different components of it and when we

37:34.6

37:37.4

refer to the dysfunctions it really is

37:36.1

37:40.1

how do we overcome those how do we

37:37.4

37:43.0

overcome those dysfunctions and I love

37:40.1

37:44.6

it because you’ve got to do one before

37:43.0

37:46.5

you graduate to the other and you’ve got

37:44.6

37:48.0

to do that one before the next one and

37:46.5

37:51.8

it when you read it

37:48.0

37:54.4

it makes so much sense it’s logical but

37:51.8

37:56.9

yet there’s so many teams that don’t do

37:54.4

37:58.5

it yeah it is so logical and that’s why

37:56.9

38:00.7

I think a lot of paths books it makes so

37:58.5

38:03.5

much sense because it is common sense

38:00.7

38:06.0

you feel these dynamics in the workplace

38:03.5

38:07.7

when you’re working with team members so

38:06.0

38:09.5

the first step really is we have to

38:07.7

38:11.9

build trust on the team but not like

38:09.5

38:13.9

competency based trust where you know

38:11.9

38:15.3

I’ve worked for you or with you long

38:13.9

38:16.7

enough that when I say this I know

38:15.3

38:19.6

you’re gonna respond in a very specific

38:16.7

38:21.2

way it’s more vulnerability based trust

38:19.6

38:24.0

so what that means in the team

38:21.2

38:26.2

environment is I’m being open I’m being

38:24.0

38:28.9

transparent of not covering up I’m not

38:26.2

38:30.6

concealing I have something to say as a

38:28.9

38:33.0

team member and I just put it out there

38:30.6

38:35.8

regardless of who’s in the room we don’t

38:33.0

38:37.4

want hierarchy on a team meaning if the

38:35.8

38:39.2

leaders in the room are not in the room

38:37.4

38:41.8

to change how the conversation goes on a

38:39.2

38:44.1

team we just want someone to feel

38:41.8

38:47.2

comfortable showing up at work and being

38:44.1

38:48.9

the person who they are versus there’s

38:47.2

38:50.0

some sort of facade and they have to be

38:48.9

38:51.7

a different person in the work

38:50.0

38:54.1

environment which is kind of changes how

38:51.7

38:56.5

they engage with people but yours kind

38:54.1

38:59.8

of a subtlety if you think about being

38:56.5

39:01.2

transparent and being vulnerable just

38:59.8

39:02.8

because they’re transparent doesn’t mean

39:01.2

39:03.8

you’re being vulnerable right and I can

39:02.8

39:04.9

tell you right now that I’m wearing a

39:03.8

39:06.4

light blue shirt and that’s being

39:04.9

39:08.9

transparent that doesn’t make me

39:06.4

39:10.5

necessarily vulnerable but on the path

39:08.9

39:12.2

of owner ability you can stop at

39:10.5

39:15.1

transparency and kind of start there

39:12.2

39:16.8

what really gets an individual and

39:15.1

39:18.4

therefore a team over the hump is that

39:16.8

39:22.1

there are two things that are consistent

39:18.4

39:24.0

with vulnerability one it’s a risk that

39:22.1

39:26.1

they’re taking by putting it out there

39:24.0

39:27.7

again by me telling you that I have a

39:26.1

39:29.9

light blue shirt on not much of a risk

39:27.7

39:32.3

by Talent sure so it has to be a risk

39:29.9

39:34.2

and then the second thing is I’m willing

39:32.3

39:36.2

to have a conversation with you about it

39:34.2

39:38.7

so if you think about all the issues

39:36.2

39:40.0

business non-business related on any

39:38.7

39:41.3

sort of team that you’re a part of

39:40.0

39:43.3

leading to remember

39:41.3

39:46.0

can you do that right can you take a

39:43.3

39:47.5

risk by admitting things right are you

39:46.0

39:49.4

willing to have a conversation about it

39:47.5

39:51.4

or if for some reason you shy away from

39:49.4

39:53.5

it want to cover up what I can see Obama

39:51.4

39:56.5

teams do that that causes dysfunction

39:53.5

39:59.3

well I will tell you that my team’s here

39:56.5

40:02.5

at our company we’ve done a lot of work

39:59.3

40:05.6

towards this it’s harder before it gets

40:02.5

40:07.8

easier and it’s very hard to start that

40:05.6

40:10.9

dialogue in the beginning we’ve been

40:07.8

40:13.3

doing it for so long I’ve forgotten some

40:10.9

40:15.7

of that stuff and another fellow

40:13.3

40:18.1

business owner and recently invited me

40:15.7

40:20.7

to one of his meetings and he asked me

40:18.1

40:23.5

to weigh in and I started doing some of

40:20.7

40:25.5

the items that you mentioned and it did

40:23.5

40:30.5

not go over well it on because none of

40:25.5

40:34.0

the legwork was given so if somebody was

40:30.5

40:35.7

going to start to be vulnerable you know

40:34.0

40:37.1

obviously they got to do more than say

40:35.7

40:40.0

this is the blue shirt that I’m wearing

40:37.1

40:41.9

yeah but are there some guidelines so

40:40.0

40:44.0

everybody feels comfortable along with

40:41.9

40:46.1

that process obviously I didn’t even do

40:44.0

40:48.0

the process I just rushed in and I

40:46.1

40:49.9

totally halted that meeting and they all

40:48.0

40:52.8

thought I was nuts of course they did

40:49.9

40:54.4

all right you can’t apply even even in

40:52.8

40:56.0

the same organization you can’t apply

40:54.4

40:58.3

what you’ve done on team a the team B

40:56.0

41:00.3

even the same culture because every team

40:58.3

41:01.8

is different every team is unique and

41:00.3

41:03.5

they have their own norms or

41:01.8

41:05.8

expectations if you will how people are

41:03.5

41:07.5

gonna engage and behave but back to tips

41:05.8

41:09.2

though in terms of if this is something

41:07.5

41:11.8

that you want to do what’s kind of your

41:09.2

41:13.0

first step in doing so well with each of

41:11.8

41:15.1

the five dysfunctions we have a

41:13.0

41:18.4

corresponding kind of role the leader

41:15.1

41:19.5

and for this to work well in a team

41:18.4

41:21.5

environment

41:19.5

41:24.0

it’s very simple the leader has to go

41:21.5

41:25.3

first because as a team member what’s

41:24.0

41:27.3

happening is I’m sitting around the

41:25.3

41:28.7

table and we’re having conversations

41:27.3

41:30.3

about work and business and moving

41:28.7

41:32.8

things forward and clients and products

41:30.3

41:34.3

and services and there’s the topic that

41:32.8

41:36.0

requires some vulnerability because

41:34.3

41:37.4

there’s a lot of opinions on that and

41:36.0

41:39.9

people won’t go there well here’s the

41:37.4

41:41.2

trick right if the leaders not going to

41:39.9

41:42.4

go there people on the team are not

41:41.2

41:45.1

going to feel safe to go there as well

41:42.4

41:47.0

so our advice is the leader has to go

41:45.1

41:49.3

first and be consistent with that over

41:47.0

41:50.8

some time and then encourage the rest of

41:49.3

41:53.3

the team to follow suit and when they do

41:50.8

41:54.5

team members typically follow suit but

41:53.3

41:56.2

the leader has to go first

41:54.5

41:57.6

otherwise you’re thinking I’m not

41:56.2

41:58.7

sticking my neck out there should I’m

41:57.6

42:02.8

not gonna be the first one who goes

41:58.7

42:06.0

great point all right so now we’ve got

42:02.8

42:08.0

good trust and the team people feel they

42:06.0

42:11.0

can be vulnerable with each other and

42:08.0

42:14.0

now what so well I do want to be careful

42:11.0

42:18.2

of is we do not want to wait until our

42:14.0

42:20.0

trust cup is 100% full before we move on

42:18.2

42:21.9

to the next one which is really about

42:20.0

42:23.6

having healthy conflict okay having

42:21.9

42:27.2

healthy conflict it really helped build

42:23.6

42:30.1

trust on a team but conflict in the

42:27.2

42:32.7

absence of trust is just office politics

42:30.1

42:35.2

conflict with trust a foundation of

42:32.7

42:36.9

trust is pursue the truth and that’s

42:35.2

42:39.7

what I want the team to get after so I

42:36.9

42:41.5

have to reiterate this and that is we

42:39.7

42:42.5

don’t do conflict resolution that’s not

42:41.5

42:43.9

what this is about because a lot of

42:42.5

42:45.7

people look at our model and say oh

42:43.9

42:48.7

conflict you help us with conflict

42:45.7

42:51.4

resolution no the exact opposite we are

42:48.7

42:54.4

encouraging you as an organization as a

42:51.4

42:56.6

team to have conflict because there are

42:54.4

42:58.6

really critical topics that that group

42:56.6

43:00.6

of people need to discuss and therefore

42:58.6

43:02.3

decide to move the organization forward

43:00.6

43:03.3

and there’s tons of reasons why people

43:02.3

43:05.6

don’t want to do it because I’m

43:03.3

43:07.0

comfortable it’s emotional we see this

43:05.6

43:08.6

all the time with our clients they

43:07.0

43:10.4

default to the subject matter expert

43:08.6

43:12.3

around the table so if we’re having a

43:10.4

43:14.7

big conversation about whatever it is in

43:12.3

43:16.5

the organization we want the finance

43:14.7

43:18.8

person the HR person the operations

43:16.5

43:21.1

person challenging the IT person and not

43:18.8

43:23.5

just defaulting to the I t’s subject

43:21.1

43:24.7

matter expertise so that’s another

43:23.5

43:26.0

reason why people don’t do it the

43:24.7

43:28.1

ultimate question that I love to ask

43:26.0

43:29.9

clients when they’re struggling and

43:28.1

43:32.8

really just having a difficult time

43:29.9

43:35.3

engaging the conflict is this what’s at

43:32.8

43:37.6

risk if we don’t roll up our sleeves and

43:35.3

43:39.5

have this difficult conversation what’s

43:37.6

43:40.9

at risk in the organization we’re gonna

43:39.5

43:41.7

miss the timing in the market are going

43:40.9

43:43.3

to be over-budget

43:41.7

43:45.4

are we not going to satisfy our clients

43:43.3

43:46.7

so the answer to that question is

43:45.4

43:49.0

different for every organization for

43:46.7

43:51.3

every team for every decision but what’s

43:49.0

43:52.9

at risk if we don’t have this

43:51.3

43:54.6

conversation and there’s a very specific

43:52.9

43:56.5

issue that needs to be identified in

43:54.6

43:57.9

that case that’s a great question

43:56.5

44:00.1

because it sort of brings you out of the

43:57.9

44:02.6

moment and now you’re kind of able to

44:00.1

44:03.7

rise above it and see the issues if you

44:02.6

44:05.4

don’t have this calm

44:03.7

44:07.1

sation and maybe it does take some of

44:05.4

44:08.9

the politics about it maybe it was a

44:07.1

44:12.1

conversation that you and I have but

44:08.9

44:14.5

recently someone told me the definition

44:12.1

44:16.8

of politics was when you change the way

44:14.5

44:18.1

you say something based on who’s in the

44:16.8

44:20.0

room was that you yeah it wasn’t me but

44:18.1

44:22.2

that’s very good not very very good

44:20.0

44:24.3

because again I’m used like a military

44:22.2

44:26.6

example for a moment you know back and

44:24.3

44:28.0

kind of the some of the desert Wars you

44:26.6

44:30.2

know people would come under the tents

44:28.0

44:32.4

and they would rip off the velcroed

44:30.2

44:33.7

stripes on the side of their uniform

44:32.4

44:35.3

throwing the center of the table and say

44:33.7

44:36.3

none of this rank matters right now in

44:35.3

44:39.0

this conversation we’ll hear to save

44:36.3

44:41.5

lives we want teams to be able to do the

44:39.0

44:43.0

same exact thing so whether you report

44:41.5

44:44.5

to the CEO whether you report to a

44:43.0

44:46.9

manager or director when you’re around

44:44.5

44:48.5

the table do the same exact thing strip

44:46.9

44:50.1

those titles away put them in the center

44:48.5

44:52.9

of the table and say that doesn’t matter

44:50.1

44:54.9

we have to solve this problem because

44:52.9

44:56.9

our we were concerned about making it

44:54.9

44:58.6

right or being right because if I’m more

44:56.9

45:01.3

concerned about being right as an

44:58.6

45:02.8

individual I’m not gonna go after making

45:01.3

45:04.7

it right for the organization and

45:02.8

45:08.5

therefore the customer or the vendor who

45:04.7

45:11.3

are serving I love that because so many

45:08.5

45:12.8

times when we are in disagreements we’re

45:11.3

45:14.9

worried about ourselves about being

45:12.8

45:17.8

right and not about doing the right

45:14.9

45:19.4

thing is there something that I can do

45:17.8

45:22.4

for myself is there a question that I

45:19.4

45:23.8

can ask myself to say okay am I worried

45:22.4

45:25.8

about being right maybe that’s the

45:23.8

45:27.1

question or am i worried about doing the

45:25.8

45:28.4

right things I know a lot of people

45:27.1

45:30.2

struggle with that yeah I think you just

45:28.4

45:32.0

have to put that out there and again as

45:30.2

45:33.6

simple as this model is and sometimes

45:32.0

45:35.6

the complexity of applying it because

45:33.6

45:37.8

it’s just it’s all human conversations

45:35.6

45:40.1

right and you’re not really sure should

45:37.8

45:41.8

I go first I sit back should I say this

45:40.1

45:44.4

should I not if I say this is that kind

45:41.8

45:46.1

of put me in jeopardy me and my job but

45:44.4

45:48.5

at the end of the day we’re all just

45:46.1

45:49.8

passing through our roles right we’re

45:48.5

45:51.5

just passing through our roles at the

45:49.8

45:53.7

end of the day I’m in a certain role

45:51.5

45:57.0

right now I’m passing through it am I

45:53.7

45:59.3

really honoring the reason why I’m in

45:57.0

46:01.4

this role and the organization that

45:59.3

46:02.9

gives me a paycheck and I know this kind

46:01.4

46:04.9

of like going towards a higher calling

46:02.9

46:07.5

if you will in terms of having people

46:04.9

46:09.7

think that through but it is difficult I

46:07.5

46:11.5

totally recognize it but yeah my more

46:09.7

46:12.9

concerned right now being right versus

46:11.5

46:14.9

making it right and when we introduced

46:12.9

46:17.2

like terminology like that to a client

46:14.9

46:19.0

we just have them talk about that right

46:17.2

46:20.4

now they pause the conversation are you

46:19.0

46:21.6

right right now that your opinions are

46:20.4

46:23.2

not going to be shared across the team

46:21.6

46:24.9

and then it’s to make you look bad or

46:23.2

46:26.5

you concern about solving this problem

46:24.9

46:27.4

and that that’s kind of hard right you

46:26.5

46:29.3

think about like getting in a

46:27.4

46:30.6

conversation absolutely but that’s what

46:29.3

46:32.4

you have to do is it to you yeah and

46:30.6

46:35.0

that in essence makes you vulnerable

46:32.4

46:37.2

therefore conflict can help you build

46:35.0

46:39.9

trust we just win a whole circle around

46:37.2

46:41.6

them yeah and this is the healthy part

46:39.9

46:44.6

that you refer to we first started

46:41.6

46:46.4

talking about this and why I love the

46:44.6

46:48.9

books that we’re talking about so much

46:46.4

46:51.0

is because when when you’re taking

46:48.9

46:53.1

business classes it’s all about the

46:51.0

46:55.3

spark it’s about the balance sheet it’s

46:53.1

46:57.5

about the budget it’s about the P&L it’s

46:55.3

46:59.5

about the cash flow statement it’s none

46:57.5

47:02.4

of the stuff that you really need to

46:59.5

47:05.2

know to run a business or run a team in

47:02.4

47:07.8

a healthy way and I haven’t been able to

47:05.2

47:09.7

found any other academic way other than

47:07.8

47:12.2

books like these in order to learn those

47:09.7

47:14.5

things so I appreciate you doing some of

47:12.2

47:16.5

the things that you do to help teams get

47:14.5

47:17.9

to that point because our school systems

47:16.5

47:19.3

definitely aren’t doing that that’s the

47:17.9

47:21.2

smart and healthy piece we focused on

47:19.3

47:22.7

the smart stuff in our education we have

47:21.2

47:24.3

found out recently that there are

47:22.7

47:26.7

several MBA programs around the country

47:24.3

47:28.6

that are using pets the five

47:26.7

47:30.2

dysfunctions of a team book and some of

47:28.6

47:32.4

those graduates are ending the workplace

47:30.2

47:34.1

they introduce the book into their

47:32.4

47:36.1

employer and all of a sudden we

47:34.1

47:38.8

sometimes get a phone call from someone

47:36.1

47:40.6

who’s like you know 27 28 years old and

47:38.8

47:42.4

said I read your book and my MBA program

47:40.6

47:44.7

and my company is now struggling we need

47:42.4

47:45.9

your help how cool is that so it is kind

47:44.7

47:48.0

of cool that that’s making its way back

47:45.9

47:50.0

to academia there we go yeah there we go

47:48.0

47:52.0

okay so we talked about trust yeah we

47:50.0

47:53.7

talked about fear of conflicts where we

47:52.0

47:54.9

go now so the third one and we talked

47:53.7

47:56.1

about this just a few moments ago is

47:54.9

47:57.8

their own commitment and again the

47:56.1

47:59.8

headline is giving people the

47:57.8

48:02.7

opportunity to weigh in to buy in are we

47:59.8

48:05.5

focused on consensus decision-making we

48:02.7

48:07.2

write about everybody agreeing or can we

48:05.5

48:09.0

end conversations with team members

48:07.2

48:10.8

being in support of precisely when they

48:09.0

48:12.8

disagree with but that is the kind of

48:10.8

48:14.6

third category and the role of the

48:12.8

48:16.7

leader when it comes to commitment is

48:14.6

48:18.1

the force clarity in closure and again

48:16.7

48:19.3

that’s more of an art than it is a

48:18.1

48:21.7

science but let me give you one or two

48:19.3

48:24.4

tips around that how do you as a leader

48:21.7

48:26.3

know when it’s time in the conversation

48:24.4

48:27.3

it’s a force clarity enclosure

48:26.3

48:29.1

well again two things

48:27.3

48:31.5

one people start to repeat themselves

48:29.1

48:33.1

and you can just tell in the

48:31.5

48:34.7

conversation that people don’t feel like

48:33.1

48:36.9

they’re being heard so they repeat it

48:34.7

48:38.3

over and over again and as a leader you

48:36.9

48:40.4

have to have the discernment to say okay

48:38.3

48:41.6

oh they’re adding any new information or

48:40.4

48:43.3

just repeating themselves and that’s

48:41.6

48:45.8

kind of the second thing is any new

48:43.3

48:47.7

information entering the conversation at

48:45.8

48:49.9

this point so as a leader you can take

48:47.7

48:52.0

those two tidbits and say my team is

48:49.9

48:53.5

kind of circling right now let’s bring

48:52.0

48:56.2

clarity and closure to this conversation

48:53.5

48:57.8

and sometimes as simple as this we’re

48:56.2

49:00.6

not ready to make a decision yet but

48:57.8

49:02.8

let’s close out this conversation that

49:00.6

49:04.7

way everybody on the team understands

49:02.8

49:06.8

the conversations over we’ll come back

49:04.7

49:08.3

to it later or we can make a decision

49:06.8

49:09.9

based upon the conversation right now

49:08.3

49:12.4

it’s just so important for the leader to

49:09.9

49:13.6

say here’s clarity enclosure to water as

49:12.4

49:15.3

we just talked about there’s multiple

49:13.6

49:17.0

ways we go about doing that but that’s

49:15.3

49:18.3

really key for a leader to be able to do

49:17.0

49:20.5

when it comes to getting commitment on

49:18.3

49:24.0

the team excellent and you shared

49:20.5

49:25.3

recently with me the fist of five which

49:24.0

49:27.6

I didn’t know about which is one of the

49:25.3

49:29.0

techniques that you use on figuring out

49:27.6

49:30.8

where to go with this it’s really

49:29.0

49:33.3

helpful for clients when they’re around

49:30.8

49:36.3

the table and they’re just struggling

49:33.3

49:37.5

through a particular topic and it’s just

49:36.3

49:39.6

a technique that we’ll use

49:37.5

49:42.0

midway through a conversation or towards

49:39.6

49:44.7

the end of it or I’ll just say ok when

49:42.0

49:46.7

it comes to hiding this new CRM vendor

49:44.7

49:48.5

what have you where does everybody stand

49:46.7

49:50.3

on this do a fist of five and we just

49:48.5

49:52.4

have the team go one two three and hold

49:50.3

49:55.1

up as many fingers whether it’s a five

49:52.4

49:58.1

four to one or whatever and it isn’t

49:55.1

50:00.1

voting meaning it’s we have a total of

49:58.1

50:02.2

21 points based upon the team and

50:00.1

50:04.3

therefore that’s the decision we just

50:02.2

50:06.4

look at it and say if anybody’s holding

50:04.3

50:08.1

three fingers or more it’s time to move

50:06.4

50:10.1

on because they’re pretty much in

50:08.1

50:13.6

support of yeah and I think the point is

50:10.1

50:15.6

that’s a tool a leader can use to help

50:13.6

50:17.7

see where we are around the table and

50:15.6

50:19.8

then maybe we’re talking about something

50:17.7

50:21.2

we don’t need to talk about everybody’s

50:19.8

50:22.7

in agreement we continue to talk about

50:21.2

50:24.0

it and we just need to move on and

50:22.7

50:26.1

here’s why this is so powerful because

50:24.0

50:27.6

if everybody’s holding up you know three

50:26.1

50:28.0

or four or five fingers it is time to

50:27.6

50:29.9

move on

50:28.0

50:32.2

but the other thing though for you as a

50:29.9

50:34.3

leader but don’t you want to know before

50:32.2

50:38.2

the conversation is over that someone

50:34.3

50:39.6

just now voted one or a two but they

50:38.2

50:41.5

haven’t been part of the conversation

50:39.6

50:43.8

for 20 minutes now it’s like we need to

50:41.5

50:46.1

draw you into the conversation and that

50:43.8

50:47.2

can result back to great conflict

50:46.1

50:48.8

because they haven’t shared their

50:47.2

50:50.4

opinion and they haven’t made themselves

50:48.8

50:52.4

vulnerable perhaps to share their

50:50.4

50:54.3

opinion so let’s work that scenario so

50:52.4

50:57.0

you’re leading a meeting yeah we’ve got

50:54.3

50:59.3

12 people at the table everybody in

50:57.0

51:01.5

there is three fours and five and then

50:59.3

51:04.3

you come to me and I’m holding one

51:01.5

51:06.7

finger yeah so as a leader how do you

51:04.3

51:08.3

skillfully obviously I didn’t feel

51:06.7

51:11.2

comfortable weighing in to this

51:08.3

51:13.2

conversation but we can’t move on until

51:11.2

51:15.0

I weigh in so how do you make me feel

51:13.2

51:16.5

comfortable so I can do that well so a

51:15.0

51:18.9

couple of things in your question there

51:16.5

51:21.0

if I can make you comfortable okay I

51:18.9

51:21.2

will try fair enough but that’s not my

51:21.0

51:24.6

goal

51:21.2

51:26.6

all right so I am gonna ask you and it

51:24.6

51:28.6

just very simply so you know so trace

51:26.6

51:30.1

you’ve kind of said you’re out of one

51:28.6

51:31.3

right here so just tell me what you’re

51:30.1

51:32.8

thinking why are you giving this a lot

51:31.3

51:35.5

and I just want to draw you into the

51:32.8

51:37.6

conversation but at the same exact time

51:35.5

51:40.4

I should have talked about this and we

51:37.6

51:43.7

were discussing conflict conflict is not

51:40.4

51:46.2

comfortable and we don’t want teams to

51:43.7

51:47.7

say that once we do get comfortable then

51:46.2

51:49.4

we’ll engage in conflict and then we’ll

51:47.7

51:52.1

bring clarity enclosure to conversations

51:49.4

51:54.2

we’d rather have the team used to be an

51:52.1

51:56.8

uncomfortable build up that tolerance of

51:54.2

51:58.4

saying again what’s up risk if we don’t

51:56.8

52:00.1

have this conversation this is a

51:58.4

52:01.8

difficult topic it’s gonna be

52:00.1

52:04.0

uncomfortable we know that going into it

52:01.8

52:07.2

let’s embrace it anyhow so getting

52:04.0

52:09.9

people comfortable is not really our

52:07.2

52:12.9

goal getting them after the issue is our

52:09.9

52:16.1

goal that’s awesome all right so we’ve

52:12.9

52:18.6

got trust we’ve dealt with conflict

52:16.1

52:20.3

we’ve got commitment what’s the next

52:18.6

52:22.3

step so the fourth one is the most

52:20.3

52:24.3

challenging for everybody that we work

52:22.3

52:26.4

with and it really is challenging

52:24.3

52:29.0

because it’s peer to peer accountability

52:26.4

52:30.1

not hub-and-spoke accountability because

52:29.0

52:32.6

if you think about the word

52:30.1

52:34.8

accountability all right it feels

52:32.6

52:38.0

punitive it feels negative it feels very

52:34.8

52:39.7

reactive and you’ve probably been in a

52:38.0

52:40.9

conversation before you’re like we need

52:39.7

52:42.7

to have a sit-down Congress

52:40.9

52:44.1

and I’m gonna hold that person

52:42.7

52:46.5

accountable and that’s that’s very

52:44.1

52:50.1

hub-and-spoke right boss to subordinate

52:46.5

52:52.7

well what we strive for on teams is peer

52:50.1

52:54.3

to peer accountability or colleagues go

52:52.7

52:55.8

to another colleague without having to

52:54.3

52:58.8

get the boss involved to have an

52:55.8

53:01.2

accountability conversation now as I say

52:58.8

53:02.5

that again in a lot of people’s minds

53:01.2

53:05.3

when they hear accountability it still

53:02.5

53:07.6

spills punitive and reactive and very

53:05.3

53:09.7

negative I want to totally reprogram and

53:07.6

53:11.3

rebrand that for you if we’re going to

53:09.7

53:13.9

spend all this time as a team building

53:11.3

53:15.9

trust and being vulnerable right if we

53:13.9

53:17.8

wouldn’t have really in-depth difficult

53:15.9

53:20.9

and uncomfortable conflict conversations

53:17.8

53:22.6

and we’re gonna be committed and support

53:20.9

53:24.7

conversations even if we disagree with

53:22.6

53:27.4

accountability is just simply this it’s

53:24.7

53:29.8

protecting promises right let’s protect

53:27.4

53:32.4

the promise that we’ve made together as

53:29.8

53:34.2

a team through all those dialogues of

53:32.4

53:36.0

these really important conversations

53:34.2

53:37.8

that are essential for growing and

53:36.0

53:38.7

moving the organizations forward so

53:37.8

53:40.8

think about it from that perspective

53:38.7

53:42.5

don’t think about the negative punitive

53:40.8

53:45.0

version of accountability that’s been

53:42.5

53:48.2

part of your perhaps career you’re just

53:45.0

53:50.1

protecting a promise so I have a great

53:48.2

53:52.0

story here of a client that does this

53:50.1

53:53.1

incredibly well that I think would be

53:52.0

53:53.8

great to share now is that okay

53:53.1

53:56.0

absolutely

53:53.8

53:58.5

okay so several years ago I’m with a

53:56.0

54:00.2

particular client here in Atlanta and it

53:58.5

54:01.8

was the third time I was with them which

54:00.2

54:03.7

is kind of key to the story because the

54:01.8

54:06.4

very first time I was with them

54:03.7

54:08.3

completely dysfunctional chairs thrown

54:06.4

54:11.3

around the room all I sources we’ve had

54:08.3

54:14.5

that happen no not at all

54:11.3

54:15.6

but not to that level but almost to the

54:14.5

54:17.6

point where people couldn’t make an eye

54:15.6

54:18.5

contact around the table they couldn’t

54:17.6

54:19.7

go to dinner and have a normal

54:18.5

54:20.9

conversation Wow

54:19.7

54:22.2

so it was very challenging very

54:20.9

54:25.1

difficult a lot of history a lot of

54:22.2

54:27.0

baggage so this is probably six to nine

54:25.1

54:28.2

months into the relationship I’m back

54:27.0

54:30.6

for the third time working with this

54:28.2

54:32.9

particular team they make tons of

54:30.6

54:34.9

progress the head of IT in the midst of

54:32.9

54:37.1

this meeting says across to the table to

54:34.9

54:39.0

the head of HR the last time we were

54:37.1

54:40.8

together the single most important thing

54:39.0

54:43.2

that we all agreed to was hiring very

54:40.8

54:44.5

key positions since that time I’ve seen

54:43.2

54:46.9

nothing out of you or your department

54:44.5

54:49.0

what’s going on so pause for a moment

54:46.9

54:51.1

right you hear that story and if you’re

54:49.0

54:53.0

a dysfunctional team what do you think

54:51.1

54:54.4

is gonna happen if you’re dysfunctional

54:53.0

54:56.0

you’re digging your heels in

54:54.4

54:58.4

right you’re gonna guard your turf

54:56.0

55:00.1

you’re thinking how dare you how dare

54:58.4

55:01.6

you in this public setting call me out

55:00.1

55:04.5

like that and that’s what a lot of us

55:01.6

55:06.0

are afraid of don’t have me do conflict

55:04.5

55:06.7

in the open environment don’t let me be

55:06.0

55:08.0

vulnerable

55:06.7

55:09.4

let’s not have accountability because

55:08.0

55:12.1

everyone is thinking all those sort of

55:09.4

55:13.6

fears but when a team is building all

55:12.1

55:15.5

this foundational stuff that I’ve been

55:13.6

55:17.3

talking about and something like that

55:15.5

55:19.5

happens in a meeting which we encourage

55:17.3

55:21.9

by the way here’s what the response was

55:19.5

55:25.6

kind of HR says you’re right I’ve

55:21.9

55:28.3

dropped the ball my mistake I apologize

55:25.6

55:30.0

after today’s meeting can we walk back

55:28.3

55:32.5

to my office I have two folders the

55:30.0

55:34.5

first folder is ready to give to you the

55:32.5

55:36.3

second folder is not and for a few

55:34.5

55:38.1

reasons it’s not but again I apologize

55:36.3

55:42.9

but let’s just walk back to my office

55:38.1

55:44.7

and head of IT says okay sounds good end

55:42.9

55:46.2

of it I mean that was it so if you think

55:44.7

55:48.8

about like an EKG when you go to the

55:46.2

55:50.9

cardiologist that was a 15-second blip

55:48.8

55:53.3

on the EKG in that meeting meaning

55:50.9

55:55.5

within 15 seconds that team was back to

55:53.3

55:57.0

normal on a dysfunctional team it’s

55:55.5

55:58.7

gonna take that team six months to

55:57.0

56:00.7

recover from that conversation at least

55:58.7

56:02.6

yeah do you believe that that person

56:00.7

56:04.4

killed her out in that meeting yeah and

56:02.6

56:06.7

and we’re not truly having the real

56:04.4

56:08.7

meeting in that meeting we’re having

56:06.7

56:10.0

meetings outside of that meeting talking

56:08.7

56:11.7

about everybody else and we’re gonna

56:10.0

56:13.2

talk about the damage that does your a

56:11.7

56:15.1

little bit because that is significant

56:13.2

56:16.6

okay so let me just finish one piece of

56:15.1

56:17.8

the story because it kind of does come

56:16.6

56:20.2

full circle and all the stuff we’re

56:17.8

56:22.2

talking about so right after the head of

56:20.2

56:23.5

IT says oh yeah that’s fine I’ll walk

56:22.2

56:25.2

back to your office that’s great

56:23.5

56:27.0

other people on the team now sort of

56:25.2

56:28.9

chiming in and saying hey I’m also

56:27.0

56:30.0

having a problem getting some stuff out

56:28.9

56:32.2

of your area

56:30.0

56:35.5

me too I’m also having is everything

56:32.2

56:38.2

okay now this head of HR becomes

56:35.5

56:40.8

completely vulnerable and breaks down

56:38.2

56:43.1

there was a significant issue going on

56:40.8

56:45.2

her personal life that nobody had any

56:43.1

56:46.9

visibility into whatsoever so

56:45.2

56:49.3

significant that it would impact

56:46.9

56:50.8

anybody’s work life and the team was

56:49.3

56:53.5

clueless because she wasn’t bringing

56:50.8

56:56.1

that to work with her so in that very

56:53.5

56:58.9

moment other team members why it may

56:56.1

57:00.7

have sound like they were piling on the

56:58.9

57:03.3

conversation very shortly thereafter

57:00.7

57:03.8

shifted to were concerned about you how

57:03.3

57:06.6

can we

57:03.8

57:09.7

you mm-hmm now the team can rally around

57:06.6

57:12.3

that individual because she was

57:09.7

57:13.4

vulnerable about admitting it but then

57:12.3

57:15.5

they embraced peer-to-peer

57:13.4

57:18.3

accountability and that’s a key thing

57:15.5

57:19.5

that is important but also challenging

57:18.3

57:22.0

and also uncomfortable about

57:19.5

57:24.3

peer-to-peer accountability we want the

57:22.0

57:26.8

team to do it in the open not behind

57:24.3

57:28.8

closed doors so we’ve always been taught

57:26.8

57:31.5

in management you know classes praised

57:28.8

57:33.9

publicly reprimand privately well if a

57:31.5

57:35.7

behavior or a circumstance is going on

57:33.9

57:38.2

in the team environment where do you

57:35.7

57:40.5

address it in the team environment and

57:38.2

57:42.1

right there that’s a challenge for a lot

57:40.5

57:44.2

of people go back to the story that I

57:42.1

57:45.9

just shared though if that hadn’t taken

57:44.2

57:47.3

place they’d have never gotten to the

57:45.9

57:49.2

point where other people on the team

57:47.3

57:50.9

could say I’m also having a problem

57:49.2

57:53.2

what’s going on we care about you or

57:50.9

57:55.5

concerned about you and I can’t help but

57:53.2

57:56.8

thinking about Stephen Covey’s book the

57:55.5

57:58.7

7 Habits of Highly Effective People

57:56.8

58:01.1

which we talk about a lot on this show

57:58.7

58:01.6

and you know that team had a paradigm

58:01.1

58:04.0

shift

58:01.6

58:05.9

you know before then they maybe could

58:04.0

58:08.9

have faked wanting to help but when they

58:05.9

58:11.7

truly understood that was an immediate

58:08.9

58:14.7

just reaction that they they really

58:11.7

58:16.7

wanted to help they had to help so it’s

58:14.7

58:18.6

critical it’s difficult we do a team

58:16.7

58:20.1

assessment for a lot of our clients and

58:18.6

58:21.6

it’s it’s available on our website and

58:20.1

58:23.7

not sure what that is a little bit later

58:21.6

58:25.5

but one of the questions on our team

58:23.7

58:27.5

assessment it’s question number eight

58:25.5

58:30.3

out of 38 questions I have it memorized

58:27.5

58:31.6

it is the lowest ranked question on all

58:30.3

58:33.8

of our clients when they when they take

58:31.6

58:35.1

this assessment and that is this team

58:33.8

58:37.2

members point out one another’s

58:35.1

58:38.8

unproductive behaviors so think about

58:37.2

58:41.0

answering that on a scale of one to five

58:38.8

58:42.4

five being high one being low that’s

58:41.0

58:44.1

always the lowest ranked when we start

58:42.4

58:45.9

cleansing we will work with because that

58:44.1

58:47.3

is challenging if you think about that

58:45.9

58:48.9

and if you walk into the work

58:47.3

58:50.3

environment every single day and you

58:48.9

58:52.1

can’t wait to point out everybody else

58:50.3

58:53.5

is unproductive behaviors you’re kind of

58:52.1

58:56.4

sick you get other issues going on in

58:53.5

58:58.0

your life but that is what a healthy

58:56.4

59:00.9

team that’s what my cohesive team does

58:58.0

59:03.4

if there is a behavior that is unhealthy

59:00.9

59:05.9

that you’re displaying I have to be able

59:03.4

59:07.7

and willing to share that same thing for

59:05.9

59:10.5

me if there’s an unhealthy behavior that

59:07.7

59:12.7

I’m displaying our relationship has to

59:10.5

59:13.6

be so strong that you are really able to

59:12.7

59:16.2

share that with me

59:13.6

59:18.4

not pull me aside in the hallway behind

59:16.2

59:20.4

closed doors to share it but to do it in

59:18.4

59:22.0

the team setting and again as I say that

59:20.4

59:25.1

what I realize are people are thinking

59:22.0

59:26.4

no way I’ll remember this whose feedback

59:25.1

59:27.7

do you listen to because the

59:26.4

59:29.4

conversation I just kind of broke down

59:27.7

59:31.8

for you that’s a lot of feedback whose

59:29.4

59:34.0

feedback do you listen to well it’s

59:31.8

59:36.1

really only those people that you trust

59:34.0

59:38.3

that’s why accountability sits on top of

59:36.1

59:41.1

commitment which sits on top of conflict

59:38.3

59:43.2

which sits on top of trust the issue and

59:41.1

59:45.4

challenge here is that we isolate only

59:43.2

59:47.3

on the topic of accountability and

59:45.4

59:48.2

forget that there’s those three layers

59:47.3

59:51.4

underneath of it

59:48.2

59:53.4

accountability does not go well when

59:51.4

59:55.2

there’s not trust on the team we haven’t

59:53.4

59:56.1

had difficult conflict conversations and

59:55.2

59:59.0

we’re not committed of all we’ve

59:56.1

1:00:01.1

discussed together I’m thinking to every

59:59.0

1:00:03.3

stumble that I’ve ever had and it all

1:00:01.1

1:00:07.1

goes back to that I don’t think I’ve

1:00:03.3

1:00:09.1

ever heard that message clarified so

1:00:07.1

1:00:11.5

well you only listen to the feedback

1:00:09.1

1:00:12.8

from people that you trust I mean they

1:00:11.5

1:00:14.2

don’t go in your ear not your other ear

1:00:12.8

1:00:16.0

for people that you don’t trust but you

1:00:14.2

1:00:18.3

really only internalize it and think

1:00:16.0

1:00:21.6

about it from people that you trust so

1:00:18.3

1:00:25.6

we did all of that we’re at that point

1:00:21.6

1:00:28.1

and now where are we okay so the top of

1:00:25.6

1:00:30.6

the pyramid is results and specifically

1:00:28.1

1:00:32.1

if we talk about collective results so a

1:00:30.6

1:00:33.4

couple things around this that are

1:00:32.1

1:00:34.5

really key cuz it’s a little bit

1:00:33.4

1:00:36.1

different than how people in

1:00:34.5

1:00:39.1

organizations think about results and

1:00:36.1

1:00:41.9

that is this isn’t everybody swimlane

1:00:39.1

1:00:44.0

responsibilities that they have as the

1:00:41.9

1:00:46.4

department head or the VP head or the

1:00:44.0

1:00:48.5

foreman of this is the collective result

1:00:46.4

1:00:51.0

that we as a unit we as a department or

1:00:48.5

1:00:52.9

we as a company to focus on so what are

1:00:51.0

1:00:54.2

the collective results that were aiming

1:00:52.9

1:00:57.1

for or shooting for

1:00:54.2

1:00:59.5

so when we see team members get around a

1:00:57.1

1:01:01.8

table and we have conversations with

1:00:59.5

1:01:03.1

them over a couple of days there’s this

1:01:01.8

1:01:06.1

really interesting thing that typically

1:01:03.1

1:01:08.1

plays itself out and that is do people

1:01:06.1

1:01:10.2

belly up to the table as a vertical

1:01:08.1

1:01:12.9

advocate representing their area of the

1:01:10.2

1:01:15.1

business only or when they belly up to

1:01:12.9

1:01:17.5

the table or they a horizontal leader

1:01:15.1

1:01:20.1

across the entire business completely

1:01:17.5

1:01:22.5

different mindset that changes the

1:01:20.1

1:01:24.5

meetings you accept and reject that

1:01:22.5

1:01:26.5

changes who you travel to go see that

1:01:24.5

1:01:28.6

changes the way that you engage

1:01:26.5

1:01:30.6

conversation because we think this

1:01:28.6

1:01:34.0

doesn’t sound right but we think when

1:01:30.6

1:01:35.8

you’re on a team the most important part

1:01:34.0

1:01:36.7

in role you have is that of a generic

1:01:35.8

1:01:40.0

team member

1:01:36.7

1:01:42.0

meaning I’m here first has a horizontal

1:01:40.0

1:01:44.0

leader across this team to lead the

1:01:42.0

1:01:45.4

organization so we have this thing in

1:01:44.0

1:01:46.5

the book the five dysfunctions of a team

1:01:45.4

1:01:48.6

called team number one

1:01:46.5

1:01:50.3

right and we ask clients who’s your

1:01:48.6

1:01:52.7

number one team is it the team that you

1:01:50.3

1:01:54.4

lead or the team that you’re on and then

1:01:52.7

1:01:55.9

we have a fun conversation after that

1:01:54.4

1:01:59.2

because a lot of people don’t even think

1:01:55.9

1:02:01.5

about that yeah and and again I’m just

1:01:59.2

1:02:03.8

so impressed with how everything is laid

1:02:01.5

1:02:06.7

out there’s a reason that’s at the top

1:02:03.8

1:02:09.0

of the pyramid and the base bottom of

1:02:06.7

1:02:10.9

the pyramid is trust and if you don’t

1:02:09.0

1:02:13.9

work through all those how are you ever

1:02:10.9

1:02:15.6

going to think as a team and not just

1:02:13.9

1:02:16.7

for yourself or the people that are

1:02:15.6

1:02:20.2

around you let me just think about the

1:02:16.7

1:02:22.5

word teamwork if the team isn’t working

1:02:20.2

1:02:24.9

on something together then what are we

1:02:22.5

1:02:26.9

talking about the team has to be working

1:02:24.9

1:02:28.5

on something something together there’s

1:02:26.9

1:02:30.1

a difference between a basketball team

1:02:28.5

1:02:32.2

and a golf team a golf team is not a

1:02:30.1

1:02:33.4

team they stood around a golf going to

1:02:32.2

1:02:34.8

the clubhouse afterwards and they add up

1:02:33.4

1:02:37.0

their scores with the other people on

1:02:34.8

1:02:39.4

their team right on a basketball team

1:02:37.0

1:02:42.0

you need and rely on the other people on

1:02:39.4

1:02:43.4

that floor to successfully score a point

1:02:42.0

1:02:46.4

in other words there are

1:02:43.4

1:02:47.8

interdependencies on a team which is

1:02:46.4

1:02:50.0

different than a work group there are

1:02:47.8

1:02:53.1

interdependencies we need and rely on

1:02:50.0

1:02:55.4

our colleagues to be successful all

1:02:53.1

1:02:58.2

right Rick so all of this is great it’s

1:02:55.4

1:03:00.7

all centered around meetings and if this

1:02:58.2

1:03:03.4

is the first time I’ve ever thought this

1:03:00.7

1:03:05.6

way or I’ve ever heard this I’m thinking

1:03:03.4

1:03:09.7

does this guy want me to spend my entire

1:03:05.6

1:03:11.9

week in meetings so and you mentioned

1:03:09.7

1:03:12.9

the book death by meeting so I can see

1:03:11.9

1:03:15.7

these people out in the audience

1:03:12.9

1:03:17.9

thinking I’m gonna slowly die from these

1:03:15.7

1:03:19.8

meetings so what do you have to say for

1:03:17.9

1:03:21.1

that yeah and unfortunately we’ve all

1:03:19.8

1:03:22.7

been there we’ve been on those horrible

1:03:21.1

1:03:25.3

meetings where it’s like it’s never

1:03:22.7

1:03:26.8

gonna end you’re checking your watch or

1:03:25.3

1:03:28.9

you’ve already given your status update

1:03:26.8

1:03:30.2

and after you given your status update

1:03:28.9

1:03:31.6

your colleagues are now going

1:03:30.2

1:03:33.4

you have your phone underneath the table

1:03:31.6

1:03:35.3

looking at messages right

1:03:33.4

1:03:37.5

death by meeting and we think some of

1:03:35.3

1:03:39.6

the worst messages is when the leader

1:03:37.5

1:03:41.5

asks the team for agenda items a day or

1:03:39.6

1:03:43.7

a week before some of the team members

1:03:41.5

1:03:46.7

send that they get into the meeting room

1:03:43.7

1:03:48.3

everybody gives a status update and then

1:03:46.7

1:03:49.6

the leader fills in all the blanks and

1:03:48.3

1:03:51.6

does the majority the talking right

1:03:49.6

1:03:53.2

that’s death by meeting right there

1:03:51.6

1:03:56.1

right nobody wants to go to that meeting

1:03:53.2

1:03:57.9

so again we want to reprogram this in

1:03:56.1

1:03:59.6

people’s minds especially if you’re on a

1:03:57.9

1:04:02.1

leadership team that the time you look

1:03:59.6

1:04:04.5

forward to the most every single week is

1:04:02.1

1:04:05.6

your leadership team meeting or whether

1:04:04.5

1:04:07.9

it’s every other week or once a month

1:04:05.6

1:04:10.3

and there’s a specific way to go about

1:04:07.9

1:04:12.4

doing that so one of the first things is

1:04:10.3

1:04:13.5

we can’t do meetings to here’s what I

1:04:12.4

1:04:15.8

just described to you a couple of

1:04:13.5

1:04:18.0

moments ago it was meeting Stu put

1:04:15.8

1:04:20.8

everything in a one big pot big

1:04:18.0

1:04:23.0

strategic issues small tactical issues

1:04:20.8

1:04:25.1

topics that one person on a team is

1:04:23.0

1:04:27.1

passionate about but not the other team

1:04:25.1

1:04:28.9

members you don’t get closer to the

1:04:27.1

1:04:31.5

topics that you do decide to discuss and

1:04:28.9

1:04:33.6

it’s just one big smelly bad tasting pot

1:04:31.5

1:04:35.0

called meetings – so we were to break

1:04:33.6

1:04:37.5

that down for clients and one of the

1:04:35.0

1:04:40.4

biggest premises is to say we need to

1:04:37.5

1:04:42.2

separate tactical conversations from

1:04:40.4

1:04:44.5

your strategic conversations there are

1:04:42.2

1:04:46.1

two separate meetings you don’t do those

1:04:44.5

1:04:47.6

different types of topics ever in the

1:04:46.1

1:04:49.5

same meeting the two different meetings

1:04:47.6

1:04:52.2

and they don’t have to be the same

1:04:49.5

1:04:54.6

frequency so tactical meetings typically

1:04:52.2

1:04:56.2

happen on average once every week or in

1:04:54.6

1:04:56.7

some of our clients cases once every two

1:04:56.2

1:04:59.2

weeks

1:04:56.7

1:05:01.2

and tactical topics are just think about

1:04:59.2

1:05:02.4

it from this perspective what are topics

1:05:01.2

1:05:04.6

that have about a seven to ten day

1:05:02.4

1:05:06.5

runway there are relevant topics for the

1:05:04.6

1:05:10.0

next week or week and a half couple of

1:05:06.5

1:05:12.6

weeks perhaps and it is a topic that you

1:05:10.0

1:05:14.5

as a team member don’t need to give an

1:05:12.6

1:05:17.7

update on but you want to come around

1:05:14.5

1:05:19.4

the table with your colleagues right and

1:05:17.7

1:05:19.9

get their input on a problem that you’re

1:05:19.4

1:05:21.8

having

1:05:19.9

1:05:23.2

because remember you don’t have to have

1:05:21.8

1:05:24.2

everything figured out yourself you’re

1:05:23.2

1:05:25.4

there as a team to help solve each

1:05:24.2

1:05:28.4

other’s problems to lead the

1:05:25.4

1:05:29.7

organization and if I’m struggling if

1:05:28.4

1:05:30.8

I’m the head of marketing and there’s a

1:05:29.7

1:05:31.9

problem that we’re having right now in

1:05:30.8

1:05:33.6

the marketing department or with a

1:05:31.9

1:05:36.2

certain vendor or with switching vendors

1:05:33.6

1:05:37.9

or whatever it is right I want to bring

1:05:36.2

1:05:40.3

that to my weekly tactical meeting with

1:05:37.9

1:05:42.9

my leadership team and say here’s the

1:05:40.3

1:05:44.3

problem I need your input that’s perfect

1:05:42.9

1:05:45.7

cuz I have a vendor call with them later

1:05:44.3

1:05:48.2

this week I want your input because

1:05:45.7

1:05:50.6

here’s the deal you can look at this and

1:05:48.2

1:05:52.0

say here’s some of the best brains in

1:05:50.6

1:05:53.9

the business around this table right now

1:05:52.0

1:05:56.0

why wouldn’t I want my colleagues input

1:05:53.9

1:05:58.2

on this top sure yes I own it

1:05:56.0

1:06:00.0

yes I’m responsible for it yes I need to

1:05:58.2

1:06:01.6

make the call but I want to bring you

1:06:00.0

1:06:02.7

into my world and I need you to bring me

1:06:01.6

1:06:03.1

in the euro world so he can be a real

1:06:02.7

1:06:05.5

team

1:06:03.1

1:06:08.4

so those tactical topics again seven to

1:06:05.5

1:06:10.2

ten kind of day runway if you will and

1:06:08.4

1:06:11.9

the topics you can probably discuss do

1:06:10.2

1:06:13.7

some quick problem-solving giving some

1:06:11.9

1:06:16.5

advice in about 10 or 15 minutes per

1:06:13.7

1:06:17.8

topic that’s a tactical meeting really

1:06:16.5

1:06:20.0

simple and straightforward and do not

1:06:17.8

1:06:21.3

start that meeting with an agenda we do

1:06:20.0

1:06:23.4

a lightning round because of its

1:06:21.3

1:06:25.0

tactical only nothing strategic you

1:06:23.4

1:06:26.9

don’t have to have an agenda beforehand

1:06:25.0

1:06:29.3

we have a team in five minutes or less

1:06:26.9

1:06:30.5

come into the room and say okay one of

1:06:29.3

1:06:31.7

the big critical things going to talk

1:06:30.5

1:06:33.6

about today there are tactical in nature

1:06:31.7

1:06:35.8

nothing strategic everyone give me two

1:06:33.6

1:06:37.5

or three ideas and you do a whiteboard

1:06:35.8

1:06:38.7

or E if you’re a virtual team you do go

1:06:37.5

1:06:40.9

to ian’s or another piece of technology

1:06:38.7

1:06:42.0

where you see them listed and all the

1:06:40.9

1:06:45.1

things that the team should talk about

1:06:42.0

1:06:47.2

tactical tactical only so chances are

1:06:45.1

1:06:49.3

somebody that came into this

1:06:47.2

1:06:52.1

conversation and thought it was death by

1:06:49.3

1:06:54.2

meeting yeah you described exactly what

1:06:52.1

1:06:56.5

that meeting looked like and I’m willing

1:06:54.2

1:06:58.8

to bet that it didn’t look like what you

1:06:56.5

1:07:00.8

previously just recently described

1:06:58.8

1:07:02.3

because if I know I’m going into a

1:07:00.8

1:07:03.7

meeting where the agendas already set

1:07:02.3

1:07:05.3

and that’s none of the topics on the

1:07:03.7

1:07:07.0

agenda of even an interest to me

1:07:05.3

1:07:09.4

I’m checked out before the medians even

1:07:07.0

1:07:11.6

begun sure but if I’m bringing an issue

1:07:09.4

1:07:13.2

that I need your help to solve and

1:07:11.6

1:07:15.5

you’re bringing an issue that you need

1:07:13.2

1:07:16.8

my help to solve I’m not bringing my

1:07:15.5

1:07:18.8

phone out and checking messages in

1:07:16.8

1:07:20.2

between right we’re engaged we’re

1:07:18.8

1:07:22.4

helping each other solve problems we’re

1:07:20.2

1:07:24.0

leading the organization that’s entirely

1:07:22.4

1:07:26.5

different than how most people do

1:07:24.0

1:07:27.8

meetings and this is my specific piece

1:07:26.5

1:07:30.3

of advice I don’t think that it’s in

1:07:27.8

1:07:32.4

death by meeting but I don’t want

1:07:30.3

1:07:33.9

leaders running their own meetings right

1:07:32.4

1:07:35.3

because if a leader runs their own

1:07:33.9

1:07:36.6

meeting they’re gonna dominate the

1:07:35.3

1:07:38.4

majority of the conversation

1:07:36.6

1:07:40.5

I don’t want team members to run the

1:07:38.4

1:07:42.6

meeting rotate the facilitation of that

1:07:40.5

1:07:44.4

meeting across team members but don’t

1:07:42.6

1:07:46.2

let the leader run it that’s that’s

1:07:44.4

1:07:50.4

great advice and we’ve tried to do that

1:07:46.2

1:07:51.6

here and as the owner it was hard to let

1:07:50.4

1:07:53.6

go with that vine I just

1:07:51.6

1:07:56.8

have to say but on the back end of it I

1:07:53.6

1:07:59.2

now instead of having one liter I have

1:07:56.8

1:08:00.8

multiple leaders in that room and now

1:07:59.2

1:08:03.2

we’re able to make better conversations

1:08:00.8

1:08:05.2

through those better conversations we

1:08:03.2

1:08:07.7

make better decisions and of course

1:08:05.2

1:08:09.8

Trust was built all along the way when

1:08:07.7

1:08:11.5

win for everybody absolutely this has

1:08:09.8

1:08:12.8

been an incredible conversation I don’t

1:08:11.5

1:08:15.0

think anybody needs to read the books

1:08:12.8

1:08:16.7

now because you described everything

1:08:15.0

1:08:18.3

that was in the books

1:08:16.7

1:08:20.3

no of course there’s so much great

1:08:18.3

1:08:22.7

information in the books and I’m gonna

1:08:20.3

1:08:25.4

put books that we’ve mentioned on the

1:08:22.7

1:08:26.5

show notes page so scaling up nation if

1:08:25.4

1:08:28.1

you’re out there and you want to get

1:08:26.5

1:08:29.9

more information on that go to scaling

1:08:28.1

1:08:32.2

up h2o comm and I’ll have all that

1:08:29.9

1:08:35.2

information for you but I also know that

1:08:32.2

1:08:37.2

the table group puts out a lot of free

1:08:35.2

1:08:38.6

tools that if somebody’s listening here

1:08:37.2

1:08:40.6

today and they said you know I’d like to

1:08:38.6

1:08:42.7

just get my feet wet a little bit how

1:08:40.6

1:08:44.9

can they do that yeah several things on

1:08:42.7

1:08:46.0

our website which is table group comm

1:08:44.9

1:08:48.4

but I know you said you’ll put it on

1:08:46.0

1:08:51.0

your website right so you can link to it

1:08:48.4

1:08:52.2

right from your podcast website so when

1:08:51.0

1:08:54.6

you’ll into ours here’s a couple things

1:08:52.2

1:08:56.6

you’ll get free organizational health

1:08:54.6

1:08:58.6

assessment so back up one of the very

1:08:56.6

1:09:00.2

first things we talked about smart and

1:08:58.6

1:09:02.0

healthy the four disciplines of a

1:09:00.2

1:09:04.3

healthy organization so we’re all about

1:09:02.0

1:09:06.5

organizational health there’s a free

1:09:04.3

1:09:08.9

assessment out there you can assess the

1:09:06.5

1:09:10.7

health of your organization another

1:09:08.9

1:09:12.9

thing that very popular on our website

1:09:10.7

1:09:15.1

is something called the hub and the hub

1:09:12.9

1:09:17.7

is where we have articles that Pat

1:09:15.1

1:09:20.0

writes on a regular basis we highlight

1:09:17.7

1:09:22.1

sometimes a few of our clients a few of

1:09:20.0

1:09:23.8

our consultants write articles in terms

1:09:22.1

1:09:26.1

of what they are experiencing in the

1:09:23.8

1:09:28.3

field working with our client

1:09:26.1

1:09:31.8

organizations another thing also it’s

1:09:28.3

1:09:34.6

very popular is Pat has videos on our

1:09:31.8

1:09:36.5

website where he breaks down several the

1:09:34.6

1:09:39.1

different models that he has written

1:09:36.5

1:09:41.2

about you know for the last 15 20 years

1:09:39.1

1:09:43.1

and what’s important about those videos

1:09:41.2

1:09:45.6

and what people like them is that there

1:09:43.1

1:09:48.6

are three minutes or less yeah I’ve used

1:09:45.6

1:09:50.9

all of those and they are well worth the

1:09:48.6

1:09:53.4

trip through the internet what is the

1:09:50.9

1:09:55.3

one thing Rick that you’re hoping that

1:09:53.4

1:09:58.8

somebody listening to this conversation

1:09:55.3

1:10:01.6

gets out of today if you’re in a work

1:09:58.8

1:10:03.9

situation that is less than optimal

1:10:01.6

1:10:06.0

perhaps even we use the word

1:10:03.9

1:10:08.9

or dysfunctional it only gets worse when

1:10:06.0

1:10:10.7

you ignore it so in other words if you

1:10:08.9

1:10:14.0

are in charge of a team of a department

1:10:10.7

1:10:16.1

of a company whatever that is your

1:10:14.0

1:10:18.0

family the nonprofit that you volunteer

1:10:16.1

1:10:20.1

at and you have some sort of leadership

1:10:18.0

1:10:22.3

role and there’s a level of dysfunction

1:10:20.1

1:10:25.4

it only gets worse when you ignore it

1:10:22.3

1:10:26.9

you have to step in and step up to the

1:10:25.4

1:10:30.0

issue there you go

1:10:26.9

1:10:32.3

this has been awesome you’ve clarified a

1:10:30.0

1:10:35.0

lot of questions that I’ve had from my

1:10:32.3

1:10:37.1

own reading and I think you’ve sparked

1:10:35.0

1:10:39.0

an interest within the scaling up nation

1:10:37.1

1:10:40.5

for people to find out more about the

1:10:39.0

1:10:42.4

things that we’re talking about but I’m

1:10:40.5

1:10:44.4

not quite done with you yet I’ve got

1:10:42.4

1:10:46.3

some lightning round questions for you

1:10:44.4

1:10:48.8

if you are ready to accept that

1:10:46.3

1:10:51.6

challenge bring it on alright so my

1:10:48.8

1:10:54.2

first question as you can see from my

1:10:51.6

1:10:58.7

office I actually do have a DeLorean in

1:10:54.2

1:11:01.3

it I do have a flux capacitor I am a fan

1:10:58.7

1:11:04.3

of the Back to the Future series so we

1:11:01.3

1:11:06.8

are going to get into the DeLorean and

1:11:04.3

1:11:09.0

we are going to set the time circuits

1:11:06.8

1:11:11.3

back to the first day that you’ve

1:11:09.0

1:11:13.7

started working with this material and

1:11:11.3

1:11:16.5

helping businesses we get out of the

1:11:13.7

1:11:20.3

DeLorean you see your former self what

1:11:16.5

1:11:22.6

advice do you give so that’s an awesome

1:11:20.3

1:11:25.8

question for me it’s actually pretty

1:11:22.6

1:11:28.6

simple and that is don’t over invest

1:11:25.8

1:11:29.6

where the money is rather invest where I

1:11:28.6

1:11:34.5

can have the biggest impact

1:11:29.6

1:11:37.4

oh very good advice and of course for my

1:11:34.5

1:11:40.0

for my own well-being because I’m always

1:11:37.4

1:11:41.7

trying to replenish my book list what

1:11:40.0

1:11:43.8

are the last three books that you’ve

1:11:41.7

1:11:45.2

read so I mean I’m always reading

1:11:43.8

1:11:47.2

probably three or four books at the same

1:11:45.2

1:11:49.6

exact time usually ones from business

1:11:47.2

1:11:50.8

ones from like faithful relationships

1:11:49.6

1:11:53.0

and the other ones usually a history

1:11:50.8

1:11:55.4

book so I got I got one from each

1:11:53.0

1:11:58.1

category fair enough right so leadership

1:11:55.4

1:12:00.6

and self-deception that book has been

1:11:58.1

1:12:02.9

out for such a long time I never read it

1:12:00.6

1:12:04.1

until a leader here recently said for

1:12:02.9

1:12:05.7

the work that we do that would be a

1:12:04.1

1:12:07.5

really good book to walk through it has

1:12:05.7

1:12:09.3

been incredibly powerful

1:12:07.5

1:12:11.7

and it goes back to something I think I

1:12:09.3

1:12:13.8

said earlier and that is when someone’s

1:12:11.7

1:12:16.3

personal interests are at odds with

1:12:13.8

1:12:18.6

what’s best for the organization that’s

1:12:16.3

1:12:19.8

an issue in leadership and

1:12:18.6

1:12:23.1

self-deception does such a great job

1:12:19.8

1:12:25.2

breaking her down so I’m the second book

1:12:23.1

1:12:27.6

so again my category is kind of faith in

1:12:25.2

1:12:29.7

relationships the Cure so I’ve read The

1:12:27.6

1:12:31.7

Cure probably twelve times I reread it

1:12:29.7

1:12:33.7

every year sometimes multiple times a

1:12:31.7

1:12:36.2

year so it’s kind of a faith book and

1:12:33.7

1:12:38.3

really it’s two paths you want to choose

1:12:36.2

1:12:41.2

the path of pleasing God or the path of

1:12:38.3

1:12:42.9

trusting God hmm and it’s a really

1:12:41.2

1:12:44.5

incredible read with a lot of depth

1:12:42.9

1:12:46.9

that’s why we read it every year okay

1:12:44.5

1:12:50.0

and then from a histories perspective

1:12:46.9

1:12:55.0

beneath the Scarlet sky it is about

1:12:50.0

1:12:57.6

world war two Nazi occupied Italy and it

1:12:55.0

1:12:59.3

is literary fiction so it really is a

1:12:57.6

1:13:02.1

true story but the author to take a

1:12:59.3

1:13:03.7

couple of creative freedom trader

1:13:02.1

1:13:05.0

freedoms that kind of tie some of the

1:13:03.7

1:13:07.7

story together and it was just

1:13:05.0

1:13:10.6

fascinating all right well thanks for

1:13:07.7

1:13:11.7

sharing that and obviously with a life

1:13:10.6

1:13:13.8

like yours

1:13:11.7

1:13:15.7

eventually Hollywood’s gonna get a hold

1:13:13.8

1:13:18.9

of it they’re gonna write a movie about

1:13:15.7

1:13:21.1

it who did they cast to play Rick back

1:13:18.9

1:13:23.7

on none other than Tony Tom Hanks there

1:13:21.1

1:13:26.0

you go so I have been told that I sound

1:13:23.7

1:13:29.2

like Tom Hanks I do not hear that at all

1:13:26.0

1:13:31.7

but that is an email that I get from

1:13:29.2

1:13:34.2

this show I think maybe they’re they’re

1:13:31.7

1:13:35.7

equalizer or volumes messed up in their

1:13:34.2

1:13:37.1

car when they’re listing because I don’t

1:13:35.7

1:13:37.9

hear that at all well that’s why I chose

1:13:37.1

1:13:40.6

it well there you go

1:13:37.9

1:13:43.2

and then my last question and then I’ll

1:13:40.6

1:13:46.3

leave you alone I promise if you could

1:13:43.2

1:13:48.2

talk with anybody throughout history who

1:13:46.3

1:13:49.7

would it be with and why I can’t give

1:13:48.2

1:13:52.2

you a simple answer I’m sorry that’s

1:13:49.7

1:13:54.5

fine I got two ish fair enough

1:13:52.2

1:13:56.2

all right so kind of very related to

1:13:54.5

1:13:58.1

something I said earlier the first

1:13:56.2

1:14:00.5

person pretty might be the Apostle Paul

1:13:58.1

1:14:02.1

cuz I’m just like what happened on the

1:14:00.5

1:14:04.1

road to Damascus man I want to hear

1:14:02.1

1:14:06.7

about that then the other is tough I

1:14:04.1

1:14:09.8

want to talk to the key figures from

1:14:06.7

1:14:12.1

World War two it’s almost like if I

1:14:09.8

1:14:14.7

could have up on stage both the powers

1:14:12.1

1:14:16.8

of the Allied forces and the axis it’d

1:14:14.7

1:14:19.2

be like I want to like sit there and

1:14:16.8

1:14:21.0

talk to Roosevelt and Truman in

1:14:19.2

1:14:23.9

Eisenhower and Churchill and

1:14:21.0

1:14:26.1

and even like Mussolini and the Japan’s

1:14:23.9

1:14:28.5

Emperor and I don’t know if I wanna talk

1:14:26.1

1:14:30.6

to Hitler or not but like Charles

1:14:28.5

1:14:33.0

DeGaulle Stalin Montgomery to the

1:14:30.6

1:14:34.4

British commander I mean I think I just

1:14:33.0

1:14:36.3

read a lot of history on the world war

1:14:34.4

1:14:38.1

two and I just would love to have like

1:14:36.3

1:14:41.0

all those people around like one big

1:14:38.1

1:14:42.8

table and like talk to me right and

1:14:41.0

1:14:44.3

let’s just break this down and what were

1:14:42.8

1:14:47.0

you thinking of what was going on and

1:14:44.3

1:14:48.7

how did you strategize that would be fun

1:14:47.0

1:14:51.2

for me well I got to tell you I just had

1:14:48.7

1:14:53.2

the vision of you having all these

1:14:51.2

1:14:55.1

people sitting at a table and taking

1:14:53.2

1:14:57.5

them through the five dysfunctions of it

1:14:55.1

1:14:58.8

can you imagine what the world outcome

1:14:57.5

1:15:00.6

would have been if you would have had

1:14:58.8

1:15:02.9

that opportunity that’s what you should

1:15:00.6

1:15:04.3

have set the time circuits to that could

1:15:02.9

1:15:07.7

be more of the most challenging teams

1:15:04.3

1:15:09.4

but what I loved it yeah Rick thanks so

1:15:07.7

1:15:11.6

much for coming on the show lots of

1:15:09.4

1:15:13.6

great information and we really

1:15:11.6

1:15:15.0

appreciate all the wisdom that you

1:15:13.6

1:15:18.9

shared with us I appreciate you having

1:15:15.0

1:15:21.9

me thanks so much Tracy wow I really had

1:15:18.9

1:15:24.0

fun interviewing Rick lots of great

1:15:21.9

1:15:25.7

information folks I think that could

1:15:24.0

1:15:30.4

have been an interview that went on for

1:15:25.7

1:15:34.0

hours so much good stuff there as you’ve

1:15:30.4

1:15:37.6

just heard there’s a lot of pieces to

1:15:34.0

1:15:39.9

bringing a team together as we all know

1:15:37.6

1:15:42.9

teams are made up with people and

1:15:39.9

1:15:45.3

unfortunately people come with their

1:15:42.9

1:15:47.6

issues and most of them are

1:15:45.3

1:15:50.1

dysfunctional issues so if we put all

1:15:47.6

1:15:53.3

those together into a team by default we

1:15:50.1

1:15:58.1

have a dysfunctional team so you’ve just

1:15:53.3

1:16:02.5

heard a sample of how people like Rick

1:15:58.1

1:16:05.1

help people like us bring teams together

1:16:02.5

1:16:07.4

now you can hire somebody like Rick or

1:16:05.1

1:16:09.9

you can try to do some things yourself

1:16:07.4

1:16:13.4

it really depends on what your culture

1:16:09.9

1:16:17.3

is for how much your team will allow you

1:16:13.4

1:16:19.0

to do and how long things have been

1:16:17.3

1:16:21.0

dysfunctional if they’ve been

1:16:19.0

1:16:23.0

dysfunctional forever the people that

1:16:21.0

1:16:25.9

helped make them dysfunctional it’s

1:16:23.0

1:16:28.7

really difficult to get those people to

1:16:25.9

1:16:31.1

change the dysfunction and do something

1:16:28.7

1:16:33.9

more functional so a couple of things

1:16:31.1

1:16:34.8

that Rick mentioned were some of my

1:16:33.9

1:16:37.9

favorite books

1:16:34.8

1:16:41.6

pat Lencioni a great author he does

1:16:37.9

1:16:45.0

write in the fable format you heard I

1:16:41.6

1:16:47.7

had a transition on how I think about

1:16:45.0

1:16:49.8

the fable format I really like books

1:16:47.7

1:16:52.4

that tell me what to do and give me

1:16:49.8

1:16:55.5

action steps and Pat’s books do that but

1:16:52.4

1:16:57.6

they do that with a story first and then

1:16:55.5

1:16:59.9

the very last chapter they really wrap

1:16:57.6

1:17:02.5

it up and give you the action steps so

1:16:59.9

1:17:06.5

the two books if you want to learn more

1:17:02.5

1:17:09.6

about this one of my all-time favorite

1:17:06.5

1:17:13.3

team-building books is called the five

1:17:09.6

1:17:15.0

dysfunctions of a team so if you’re

1:17:13.3

1:17:19.3

interested in that book I’ve got a link

1:17:15.0

1:17:22.3

to it it’s scaling-up h2o calm /the

1:17:19.3

1:17:24.5

number five and dysfunctions all one

1:17:22.3

1:17:27.4

word so scaling-up h2o calm

1:17:24.5

1:17:30.0

forward-slash five dysfunctions the

1:17:27.4

1:17:33.2

other book which is fast approaching

1:17:30.0

1:17:35.9

also one of my all-time favorite books

1:17:33.2

1:17:37.7

is one of his newest books we learned on

1:17:35.9

1:17:40.4

the show of course that it was not his

1:17:37.7

1:17:43.0

newest book is called the advantage and

1:17:40.4

1:17:48.9

I’ve got a link to that it’s scaling up

1:17:43.0

1:17:51.6

h2o calm /the advantage all one word the

1:17:48.9

1:17:55.1

advantage is great if you don’t like the

1:17:51.6

1:17:58.2

business fable format but it’s also good

1:17:55.1

1:18:01.0

because I believe it takes 12 books and

1:17:58.2

1:18:03.9

wraps them all up and gives you some

1:18:01.0

1:18:07.9

awesome action items that you can take

1:18:03.9

1:18:10.0

to start making your team more cohesive

1:18:07.9

1:18:13.0

Rick also mentioned that there are some

1:18:10.0

1:18:16.3

free tools available for you on their

1:18:13.0

1:18:19.4

website so if you go to my show notes

1:18:16.3

1:18:23.3

page I will link you directly to those

1:18:19.4

1:18:26.2

tools so you can start using those they

1:18:23.3

1:18:28.8

really are phenomenal now a lot of

1:18:26.2

1:18:33.6

people ask you know where do I start

1:18:28.8

1:18:37.1

when I am trying to make my team a

1:18:33.6

1:18:39.3

better team and when I work with other

1:18:37.1

1:18:40.7

water treatment companies and building

1:18:39.3

1:18:42.6

their team and by the way that’s one of

1:18:40.7

1:18:45.2

my favorite things to do when people

1:18:42.6

1:18:48.3

allow me to come in and really get down

1:18:45.2

1:18:51.4

to know their team members and help them

1:18:48.3

1:18:54.8

establish what makes them such a great

1:18:51.4

1:18:58.9

company the first thing that I always do

1:18:54.8

1:19:02.4

is help them define their core values

1:18:58.9

1:19:05.5

and I know we’re hitting on a great

1:19:02.4

1:19:08.4

topic here because the last podcast was

1:19:05.5

1:19:11.9

about Daniel Perry and how he carries

1:19:08.4

1:19:14.8

out his core values in his chick-fil-a

1:19:11.9

1:19:17.3

restaurant and they live those core

1:19:14.8

1:19:19.9

values in every single thing that they

1:19:17.3

1:19:22.1

do so we know how successful a company

1:19:19.9

1:19:24.4

can be when they live their core values

1:19:22.1

1:19:26.6

so a question that I received actually

1:19:24.4

1:19:30.7

several questions that I received from

1:19:26.6

1:19:34.1

our last podcast all dealt with core

1:19:30.7

1:19:36.4

values so scaling up nation I hear you

1:19:34.1

1:19:39.4

you want to know more about developing

1:19:36.4

1:19:42.1

your company’s core values so the first

1:19:39.4

1:19:43.8

question that I got and this is a new

1:19:42.1

1:19:46.0

pinks and blues normally pinks and blues

1:19:43.8

1:19:47.6

were doing industry related items well I

1:19:46.0

1:19:49.8

guess we have to have a team in order to

1:19:47.6

1:19:52.8

be in business so this is industry

1:19:49.8

1:19:56.8

related as well so the first question I

1:19:52.8

1:20:00.2

have is about how I enjoy studying

1:19:56.8

1:20:01.9

businesses and how they use their core

1:20:00.2

1:20:04.4

values just like we did with chick-fil-a

1:20:01.9

1:20:07.4

I do that with pretty much every

1:20:04.4

1:20:10.0

customer transaction that I experience

1:20:07.4

1:20:12.0

it really gets on my wife’s nerves but

1:20:10.0

1:20:14.0

this is how I learn this is how I make

1:20:12.0

1:20:16.1

my own company better this is how I make

1:20:14.0

1:20:18.2

other companies better when I’m working

1:20:16.1

1:20:20.4

with them so the question that this

1:20:18.2

1:20:23.5

listener asks is what are some of the

1:20:20.4

1:20:27.0

other companies that I really think get

1:20:23.5

1:20:28.8

their core values right so you know how

1:20:27.0

1:20:31.2

I feel about chick-fil-a I think they

1:20:28.8

1:20:34.4

are outstanding when it comes to living

1:20:31.2

1:20:37.1

their core values another one is a gas

1:20:34.4

1:20:39.1

station yes folks a gas station and the

1:20:37.1

1:20:42.5

south we have a gas station called Kwik

1:20:39.1

1:20:45.7

Trip and I believe they go up maybe to

1:20:42.5

1:20:47.7

Southern Virginia and down almost to

1:20:45.7

1:20:51.5

Florida I’m not sure how far over they

1:20:47.7

1:20:55.1

go but I will pass ten other gas

1:20:51.5

1:20:59.9

stations to get to a quick trip and Kwik

1:20:55.1

1:21:01.3

Trip is so into their core values they

1:20:59.9

1:21:03.8

train them they hire

1:21:01.3

1:21:06.9

fire they reward they recognize on them

1:21:03.8

1:21:09.4

they make sure that every single time a

1:21:06.9

1:21:12.3

customer walks into one of their gas

1:21:09.4

1:21:15.7

stations they are greeted and they say

1:21:12.3

1:21:18.8

welcome to quick trip and there’s never

1:21:15.7

1:21:20.6

a line because people stop what they’re

1:21:18.8

1:21:22.5

doing if they’re stocking something they

1:21:20.6

1:21:24.6

realize that the only reason they’re

1:21:22.5

1:21:26.7

stocking something is because customers

1:21:24.6

1:21:29.0

are there buying it and they make sure

1:21:26.7

1:21:31.7

that the customer knows they’re

1:21:29.0

1:21:34.6

appreciated and they can get in and out

1:21:31.7

1:21:36.8

quickly so quick trip is a great company

1:21:34.6

1:21:39.0

another thing that they do say somebody

1:21:36.8

1:21:41.6

with an MBA wanted to join their

1:21:39.0

1:21:44.4

executive ranks well I’ve heard that

1:21:41.6

1:21:46.6

they start everybody in their gas

1:21:44.4

1:21:49.0

stations so they can learn their core

1:21:46.6

1:21:52.5

business and then when they learn that

1:21:49.0

1:21:56.8

they can move up to a more executive job

1:21:52.5

1:21:58.9

I think that just screams we live our

1:21:56.8

1:22:02.1

core values of course the other company

1:21:58.9

1:22:06.4

is Disney folks if you’ve ever been to

1:22:02.1

1:22:10.2

anything that Disney touches you know it

1:22:06.4

1:22:12.6

is all about the experience and Disney

1:22:10.2

1:22:15.8

does everything that they can to make

1:22:12.6

1:22:17.5

sure that that experience is magical I

1:22:15.8

1:22:21.8

don’t know if you’ve ever taken a Disney

1:22:17.5

1:22:25.5

cruise but it is incredible the links

1:22:21.8

1:22:28.8

that everybody will go to to make sure

1:22:25.5

1:22:31.3

that you have the best vacation that you

1:22:28.8

1:22:34.7

ever had so those are my top three

1:22:31.3

1:22:38.3

companies that I love to study their

1:22:34.7

1:22:40.6

core values now I also have a few that I

1:22:38.3

1:22:42.2

like to study that are the anti of

1:22:40.6

1:22:43.5

following their core values I’m not

1:22:42.2

1:22:46.1

going to share those with you on the air

1:22:43.5

1:22:50.1

but I’m sure you have a few of those

1:22:46.1

1:22:52.1

yourself my challenge to you is start

1:22:50.1

1:22:53.7

looking out for these things the next

1:22:52.1

1:22:56.8

time you have a customer service

1:22:53.7

1:22:59.0

experience good or bad see if you can

1:22:56.8

1:23:02.8

figure out what that company’s core

1:22:59.0

1:23:05.3

values are and see if you’re right see

1:23:02.8

1:23:07.7

if those people are really living them

1:23:05.3

1:23:10.3

and when you start looking for items

1:23:07.7

1:23:14.4

like this you will be amazed

1:23:10.3

1:23:17.1

at what core values can do for a company

1:23:14.4

1:23:20.0

now that being said our next question is

1:23:17.1

1:23:23.0

how do you go about discovering your

1:23:20.0

1:23:25.8

company’s core values and I love the way

1:23:23.0

1:23:28.3

that this person worded their question

1:23:25.8

1:23:30.2

they use the word discovering and a lot

1:23:28.3

1:23:32.6

of times people say how do we write our

1:23:30.2

1:23:35.2

core values or how do we figure out what

1:23:32.6

1:23:38.2

our core values are well chances are you

1:23:35.2

1:23:41.0

already know what your core values are

1:23:38.2

1:23:44.0

you just might not have the right words

1:23:41.0

1:23:48.7

to define them so I’m gonna give you a

1:23:44.0

1:23:52.0

couple of tips to help you discover what

1:23:48.7

1:23:54.6

your core values are first thing is and

1:23:52.0

1:23:58.8

I love that Rick said this he said

1:23:54.6

1:24:01.7

without way in there is no buy-in so if

1:23:58.8

1:24:05.2

you can include your entire team in this

1:24:01.7

1:24:09.3

discussion your entire team will support

1:24:05.2

1:24:12.1

these core values this is something that

1:24:09.3

1:24:15.3

will take some time so don’t rush this

1:24:12.1

1:24:18.4

try not to leave people out and make

1:24:15.3

1:24:21.7

sure that you’re committed to go all the

1:24:18.4

1:24:25.3

way through until you find the right

1:24:21.7

1:24:27.8

words that define your core values then

1:24:25.3

1:24:31.6

just like Rick said you have to tell

1:24:27.8

1:24:34.3

them seven times in order for them to

1:24:31.6

1:24:36.5

hear it the first time so a few other

1:24:34.3

1:24:39.1

things that might help you discover what

1:24:36.5

1:24:42.6

your core values are you might want to

1:24:39.1

1:24:44.3

bring a list maybe 50 or a hundred core

1:24:42.6

1:24:47.6

value words not that you’re gonna use

1:24:44.3

1:24:51.2

any of them but it just gets everybody

1:24:47.6

1:24:54.3

in the spirit of thinking along the

1:24:51.2

1:24:57.7

terms of good succinct words that

1:24:54.3

1:25:02.0

describe what you’re trying to discover

1:24:57.7

1:25:04.7

ask each other what are the rules that I

1:25:02.0

1:25:07.6

hired on to what are the things that

1:25:04.7

1:25:09.5

attracted me to this company that if

1:25:07.6

1:25:11.6

they weren’t there anymore

1:25:09.5

1:25:13.8

I would not want to work for this

1:25:11.6

1:25:16.5

company and by the way folks that’s a

1:25:13.8

1:25:19.0

great question friend of show Tim Fulton

1:25:16.5

1:25:20.7

my business coach he encourages

1:25:19.0

1:25:23.8

everybody in his

1:25:20.7

1:25:26.1

to ask their team members what would

1:25:23.8

1:25:29.0

have to happen to make you want to quit

1:25:26.1

1:25:32.0

what a weird question right but think

1:25:29.0

1:25:34.3

about when somebody does quit we ask

1:25:32.0

1:25:37.0

that question by default what do I have

1:25:34.3

1:25:39.8

to do to make you want to stay well

1:25:37.0

1:25:43.1

that’s the reactive response to that

1:25:39.8

1:25:45.6

issue what if we make it proactive and

1:25:43.1

1:25:47.7

everything’s going great I want you to

1:25:45.6

1:25:52.2

stay here but what would have to happen

1:25:47.7

1:25:54.3

for you to want to quit and what a great

1:25:52.2

1:25:58.4

conversation to have because now you can

1:25:54.3

1:26:00.6

fix that before you lose a great person

1:25:58.4

1:26:02.9

and that’s a great conversation to have

1:26:00.6

1:26:05.3

during this discussion because if you

1:26:02.9

1:26:07.9

can figure out what you don’t want to

1:26:05.3

1:26:11.1

happen you can start to form what you do

1:26:07.9

1:26:13.6

want to happen and those are your core

1:26:11.1

1:26:15.8

values something else you might want to

1:26:13.6

1:26:19.6

think of is the last time you’ve had to

1:26:15.8

1:26:24.1

let somebody go what were the behaviors

1:26:19.6

1:26:26.5

that made you go with the decision to

1:26:24.1

1:26:29.1

cut them loose and those are the

1:26:26.5

1:26:32.5

behaviors that you said those do not

1:26:29.1

1:26:35.7

belong in our company sometimes looking

1:26:32.5

1:26:39.0

at the anti core values can actually

1:26:35.7

1:26:41.1

help discover what your core values are

1:26:39.0

1:26:43.5

in working with different water

1:26:41.1

1:26:47.7

treatment companies more times than not

1:26:43.5

1:26:50.9

I will here a core value B to make money

1:26:47.7

1:26:52.5

or something along those lines and one

1:26:50.9

1:26:55.4

of my favorite quotes that Stephen Covey

1:26:52.5

1:26:57.6

has is no margin no mission let’s face

1:26:55.4

1:27:00.4

it if the company is not profitable we

1:26:57.6

1:27:04.1

don’t have a company we don’t have any

1:27:00.4

1:27:07.4

jobs so we have to make a profit but if

1:27:04.1

1:27:11.2

our core values are true if our core

1:27:07.4

1:27:14.8

values are trained and lived by all I

1:27:11.2

1:27:18.9

argue that a byproduct of our core

1:27:14.8

1:27:21.9

values is a profitable company so if we

1:27:18.9

1:27:24.3

get our core values right by default we

1:27:21.9

1:27:26.8

are going to make money it’s very easy

1:27:24.3

1:27:31.0

to get caught up in a bunch of core

1:27:26.8

1:27:32.9

values so we can’t decide on a couple of

1:27:31.0

1:27:33.7

different words so we’re going to use

1:27:32.9

1:27:36.2

all of the

1:27:33.7

1:27:39.7

and before we know we’ve got 25 core

1:27:36.2

1:27:42.7

values folks the key here is less is

1:27:39.7

1:27:45.7

more we have five and I actually defined

1:27:42.7

1:27:48.6

the five that we have in our company on

1:27:45.7

1:27:51.7

last week’s episode you can have more

1:27:48.6

1:27:55.4

than five but the more you have the

1:27:51.7

1:27:58.2

harder it is for people to train and the

1:27:55.4

1:28:02.6

harder it is for people to recognize

1:27:58.2

1:28:06.2

actions based on those core values so

1:28:02.6

1:28:09.1

less truly is more when it comes to this

1:28:06.2

1:28:12.6

once you think you’ve got the correct

1:28:09.1

1:28:14.9

core values go ahead and test them think

1:28:12.6

1:28:17.6

about the scenarios where if you did

1:28:14.9

1:28:20.9

have to let somebody go what were the

1:28:17.6

1:28:23.1

things that they weren’t doing according

1:28:20.9

1:28:25.5

to your core values that would have

1:28:23.1

1:28:29.8

forced your hand to let that person go

1:28:25.5

1:28:33.6

or if you were to hire the best hire you

1:28:29.8

1:28:36.1

ever could what would be those qualities

1:28:33.6

1:28:38.9

that you would be looking for that

1:28:36.1

1:28:41.4

person get everybody in the room to

1:28:38.9

1:28:44.3

participate in that conversation and if

1:28:41.4

1:28:47.4

everybody agrees you’re probably spot on

1:28:44.3

1:28:50.4

to finding what your core values truly

1:28:47.4

1:28:54.1

are once you’re there it’s important for

1:28:50.4

1:28:56.9

the group to define each one of those

1:28:54.1

1:28:59.1

words I mentioned the five core values

1:28:56.9

1:29:01.5

that my company has I was not

1:28:59.1

1:29:04.5

responsible for that by myself the team

1:29:01.5

1:29:06.1

came up with those five items and by the

1:29:04.5

1:29:07.3

way in case you’re wondering I’d love

1:29:06.1

1:29:10.2

for you to go back to listen to the show

1:29:07.3

1:29:13.6

again but they were integrity teamwork

1:29:10.2

1:29:16.9

gasps which stands for give a stuff

1:29:13.6

1:29:19.7

solution-oriented and attitude now those

1:29:16.9

1:29:23.6

are just words that you’re hearing me

1:29:19.7

1:29:27.9

say but in our company we define them so

1:29:23.6

1:29:32.7

they work for us and it is how we hire

1:29:27.9

1:29:37.5

fire reward and recognize everybody on

1:29:32.7

1:29:40.6

our team finally when everybody is good

1:29:37.5

1:29:43.7

with these core values you need to talk

1:29:40.6

1:29:45.8

about them all the time in every

1:29:43.7

1:29:46.7

conversation that you have with team

1:29:45.8

1:29:49.2

members you need

1:29:46.7

1:29:51.4

to work your core values in when you

1:29:49.2

1:29:54.0

recognize somebody for doing something

1:29:51.4

1:29:56.7

right you need to tie it back to a core

1:29:54.0

1:29:59.7

value if somebody is not performing

1:29:56.7

1:30:03.4

properly you need to tie it back to a

1:29:59.7

1:30:07.2

core value when you hire somebody they

1:30:03.4

1:30:09.9

need to be hired based on your core

1:30:07.2

1:30:12.3

values you need to talk about them and

1:30:09.9

1:30:15.1

talk about them and talk about them and

1:30:12.3

1:30:17.9

talk about them at least seven times

1:30:15.1

1:30:19.7

print some materials but don’t just hang

1:30:17.9

1:30:21.2

them on the wall I’m sure we all know

1:30:19.7

1:30:23.5

those companies out there that have

1:30:21.2

1:30:25.5

these beautiful pictures behind

1:30:23.5

1:30:28.2

beautiful frames or maybe they’re

1:30:25.5

1:30:30.3

plaques of core values and it’s out in

1:30:28.2

1:30:32.1

their Lobby and they’ve spent lots and

1:30:30.3

1:30:33.4

lots of money on it and you ask anybody

1:30:32.1

1:30:36.3

in that building what their core values

1:30:33.4

1:30:39.2

are and they cannot tell you what they

1:30:36.3

1:30:42.1

are it’s not important how pretty they

1:30:39.2

1:30:45.0

look it’s important how you live them

1:30:42.1

1:30:47.7

now as I mentioned before Rick mentioned

1:30:45.0

1:30:50.0

a lot of free tools that are on the

1:30:47.7

1:30:52.8

table group website so I’ll make sure

1:30:50.0

1:30:56.5

that I have some links specifically to

1:30:52.8

1:30:58.6

core values on my show notes page the

1:30:56.5

1:31:02.0

last question I have is a listener

1:30:58.6

1:31:04.9

writes in about the procedures comment

1:31:02.0

1:31:09.1

that I made on the last podcast episode

1:31:04.9

1:31:13.0

and I made a comment that if you had an

1:31:09.1

1:31:16.6

issue with a person before you treat it

1:31:13.0

1:31:19.8

as a person issue or a people issue you

1:31:16.6

1:31:22.9

first explore that it’s not a procedural

1:31:19.8

1:31:24.5

issue and the person wants to ask can

1:31:22.9

1:31:26.9

you talk a little bit more about that

1:31:24.5

1:31:29.1

and I can’t remember exactly what I said

1:31:26.9

1:31:31.7

on the last podcast so I might be

1:31:29.1

1:31:35.0

repeating myself a little bit if I am

1:31:31.7

1:31:39.4

forgive me but the next time you have an

1:31:35.0

1:31:42.9

issue ask yourself is there a procedure

1:31:39.4

1:31:44.6

that should have prevented that and if

1:31:42.9

1:31:47.3

there’s not that’s the problem right

1:31:44.6

1:31:50.1

there if there is then you need to ask

1:31:47.3

1:31:52.1

yourself a couple of questions one is it

1:31:50.1

1:31:54.9

a correct procedure did the fact that

1:31:52.1

1:31:58.6

procedure was wrong did that create the

1:31:54.9

1:32:01.4

issue if the procedure is correct

1:31:58.6

1:32:03.0

was it trained and folks I gotta tell

1:32:01.4

1:32:06.1

you I don’t like the word trained

1:32:03.0

1:32:08.7

because trained is whoever’s learning it

1:32:06.1

1:32:11.5

it’s a passive action if I’m the trainer

1:32:08.7

1:32:14.7

I’m now taking the action and somebody

1:32:11.5

1:32:17.3

is passively listening to how well I

1:32:14.7

1:32:20.2

know the subject matter so if you

1:32:17.3

1:32:22.9

remember one of the guests I had on

1:32:20.2

1:32:26.4

scaling up was Captain David Markey and

1:32:22.9

1:32:28.8

he was a naval submarine captain he

1:32:26.4

1:32:32.6

wrote the book turned the ship around he

1:32:28.8

1:32:36.0

did not train anybody on his sub what he

1:32:32.6

1:32:39.4

did was he certified people now think

1:32:36.0

1:32:42.0

about that term certify versus train if

1:32:39.4

1:32:46.4

I train somebody I’m doing the work if I

1:32:42.0

1:32:49.7

certify somebody they’re proving to me

1:32:46.4

1:32:53.0

that they understand the subject

1:32:49.7

1:32:55.4

material so at our company we do very

1:32:53.0

1:32:59.4

little training we do a lot of

1:32:55.4

1:33:01.7

certifying once we whoever is the person

1:32:59.4

1:33:04.5

signing off on that is comfortable that

1:33:01.7

1:33:07.3

that person knows the material we

1:33:04.5

1:33:09.6

physically certify that person by

1:33:07.3

1:33:12.7

signing off that they understand that so

1:33:09.6

1:33:15.8

ask yourself was that done did they

1:33:12.7

1:33:18.3

prove to you that they understood the

1:33:15.8

1:33:23.2

procedure that whatever that issue came

1:33:18.3

1:33:26.7

from and if all of that was yes well you

1:33:23.2

1:33:29.1

might have a people problem and then if

1:33:26.7

1:33:32.1

you have a people problem I would

1:33:29.1

1:33:34.3

suggest that you coach that person but

1:33:32.1

1:33:37.2

you keep track of how you’re coaching

1:33:34.3

1:33:39.7

them and if the same thing occurs I

1:33:37.2

1:33:42.6

think you know what action you have to

1:33:39.7

1:33:45.5

do from that and nobody likes to have to

1:33:42.6

1:33:47.7

let somebody go but folks we all have

1:33:45.5

1:33:50.5

successful companies because we do

1:33:47.7

1:33:54.3

things in a particular way and if people

1:33:50.5

1:33:57.2

can’t do that well they can do what we

1:33:54.3

1:34:00.0

do with somebody else but they can’t do

1:33:57.2

1:34:02.4

it here as Daniel Perry said we promote

1:34:00.0

1:34:04.3

them to customer nation I started out

1:34:02.4

1:34:07.0

the top of the show telling you about

1:34:04.3

1:34:09.9

all the things that we have coming up

1:34:07.0

1:34:10.9

very soon in the water treatment

1:34:09.9

1:34:13.6

community

1:34:10.9

1:34:17.4

one of the things I’m looking so forward

1:34:13.6

1:34:20.8

to is the fact that we have a holiday so

1:34:17.4

1:34:24.2

October 1st through 5th is industrial

1:34:20.8

1:34:29.0

water week and I want to do an episode

1:34:24.2

1:34:32.6

each and every day on the topic of that

1:34:29.0

1:34:34.6

day so the twist is instead of you guys

1:34:32.6

1:34:38.0

just riding in I want you to go to

1:34:34.6

1:34:39.5

scaling up h2o calm and there’s a button

1:34:38.0

1:34:42.1

on there on the right side of the screen

1:34:39.5

1:34:45.1

that says record voicemail I want you to

1:34:42.1

1:34:47.2

record your voice asking me your

1:34:45.1

1:34:49.8

question and you’re gonna hear your

1:34:47.2

1:34:51.0

voice on scaling up the other thing

1:34:49.8

1:34:52.3

that’s coming up of course is the

1:34:51.0

1:34:54.7

Association of Water Technologies

1:34:52.3

1:34:58.5

convention that’s coming up in September

1:34:54.7

1:35:01.3

I’m going to try to plan some events

1:34:58.5

1:35:03.9

where us scaling up nation folk can get

1:35:01.3

1:35:06.0

together we can network a little bit we

1:35:03.9

1:35:08.7

can share ideas on how we can get the

1:35:06.0

1:35:10.4

most out of the convention and just

1:35:08.7

1:35:13.6

really enjoy each other’s company

1:35:10.4

1:35:16.1

folks I really enjoy the fact that you

1:35:13.6

1:35:19.2

guys listen to this show and I love the

1:35:16.1

1:35:21.7

fact that you keep giving me ideas for

1:35:19.2

1:35:24.7

this show and I cannot wait to bring

1:35:21.7

1:35:25.1

more ideas to you next time on Scaling UP!

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