078 The One with The Waste Water Guy (Part 1)
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welcome to the best and most listened-to
water treatment podcast out there
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Scaling UP! H2O folks my name is Trace
Blackmore I am the host of Scaling UP! H2O
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of course it’s the podcast where
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
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don’t Scaling UP! our systems and folks I
am so humbled of all the people out
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there that are telling other fellow
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much with material and letting me know
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coming at you each and every week and I
love doing that I love answering your
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questions I love it when you guys let me
know exactly what it is that you want me
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to talk about and of course I’m gonna
ask for it again so go to Scaling UP! H2O
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com leave me a voicemail and I could
play a your voice on the next episode of
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Scaling UP! asking me that question of
course if I do that you will get the
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awesome Scaling UP! H2O t-shirt everybody
wants one how do you get one will you
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leave me a voicemail message well maybe
you don’t want to do that you can go
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ahead and go on my show ideas page and
let me know what questions you have
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folks we are going to talk to an
individual today who has been requested
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by many out there in the Scaling UP!
nation to come back of course I am
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talking about Kevin cope waste water
treated straw dinair if you have never
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met Kevin in person I tell you he can
tell a story he’s got his Pittsburgh
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accent he’s got the biggest personality
that you’ll ever meet and he’s just such
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a nice guy and I tell you one of the
things that I want to do is
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make the industry better and I will say
that I have seen Kevin do this it’s one
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of the reasons that he teaches
everything that he knows to anybody who
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asked like myself it’s one of the
reasons that he teaches what he does to
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the Association of Water Technologies he
is able to tell a story like no other he
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can paint a picture in your mind so when
he is telling you about what he is
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teaching you can visualize it like you
are there Kevin you are amazing of
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course you’re also amazing because you
are sharing that information with the
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Scaling UP! nation folks I know you are
going to love this interview I know that
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you are not gonna want to stop this
interview when you get to your next
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account you’re probably gonna sit in the
parking lot and wait for it to finish I
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love it when you guys share stories
about that I’m sure this is one of them
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I hope I know I don’t need to hope that
you are going to enjoy this interview
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with Kevin cope
my lab partner today is returning
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Scaling UP! H2O guests and water
treatment professional wastewater
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treatment professional Kevin cope of
Brent AG North America how are you Kevin
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never better trace never better thanks
for asking
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never better that is the term that the
Scaling UP! nation absolutely loves and
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they also love Kevin coke because I have
received so much positive feedback when
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you came on for water treatment week and
you talked about what wastewater is so
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many people called me or emailed me and
said they want more of what wastewater
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is so thank you so much for coming on
the show and giving the Scaling UP!
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nation what they’re asking for well
listen my pleasure at a great time is
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really an honor to be able to give that
information to everybody and again I
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thank you for having me so it was a
great thanks well I appreciate you doing
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it we’re gonna talk a lot about the
complete wastewater process and what a
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water treatment professional can and
should do today but before we get there
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we’re recently seeing each other of
course we’re recording this and we’re
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going to air it later but we recently
saw each other at the association of
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water technologies annual convention and
Expo so I want to ask you how did that
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go for you went very well I mean had a
great time my wife was able to join me
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it was actually my last the meeting on
the board got to say goodbye to
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everybody at the end of that but I
thought was an excellent convention we
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had a way to kind of is from a from a
business standpoint brent AG standpoint
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had a great convention got to meet
everybody we wanted to meet and meet
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some new folks and it just was fun it
was a just a lot of fun for everybody
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involved little hot but it’s fun for
everybody
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yeah Orlando was a little bit warm so
were you on the golf course I know I you
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know I’m an artist then people say why
are you an artist then my answer is I’m
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an artist because it keeps me off the
golf course so that’s that’s my answer
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yes that’s what I heard well people
were melting on that golf course it was
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hot I wasn’t out there either but that’s
when you ask people hey how’d you play
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they’d say it’s hot so that’s the answer
yeah that’s what I heard I also am $50
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richer because of Brent AG North America
now I I enjoy marketing marketing
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something that I always get into so when
I see signage I want to see what they’ve
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done because quite frankly if it’s good
I want to copy it and I’m reading all of
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the signage and I’m reading everything
that Brent tag North America can do on
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one of their signs and I see chili
cheese fries and I was like what what
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are they talking about I come up to you
and I ask you are you guys now selling
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chili cheese fries you start busting out
laughing and how about you continue the
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story from there well it was actually my
boss gentleman named Brian Liotta who
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came up with the idea because you know
we obviously have meetings prior to the
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conference what do we want to achieve
who do want to meet with things along
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this line and and Brian is always trying
to you know look at different ways and
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it you know the signage and we had the
opportunity to put the sign on that one
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pole and Brian came up with the idea
let’s put chili cheese fries on there to
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just see if anybody is really reading
the signs and so we we came up with that
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idea I should say Brian came up with
that idea Barbara lost nine from our
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offense group but to put it on the side
we put it up and lo and behold I was
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sitting with Brian when you walked my
and you were the very first person to
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come up and say something and it could
not have been tried any better trace I
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mean you know Brian these big grin on
his face when he thought somebody
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actually is reading the sign so it
that’s what it came from was us sitting
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around and saying do people really read
these signs and lo and behold we got
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confirmation that someone to us we
actually had three people that came up
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to us and you know said that they had
seen that but that’s how that all
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started was just a bunch of people
sitting around trying to come up with
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some ideas how could we make this a
little more interesting and that’s how
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that occurred so thank you because if
you could not have picked a better time
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and a better situation to say
something about the about the chili
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cheese fries well Kevin I love that idea
that’s so solution-oriented you guys are
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wondering you know you’re spending all
this money on the advertising of course
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the space to put the advertising on is
anybody actually looking at this what
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can we do as a company to get some
feedback to see if they are looking at
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that I love that that’s
solution-oriented thinking well thanks
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and like I said I that’s that I give all
credit to Brian Lyon on that one that
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was Brian’s idea and it’s very very well
received so and again thank you for for
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seeing it we really appreciate that so
well thank you for the $50 Visa gift
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about $50 worth of chilli cheese fries
now there you go there you go so I’ll
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probably go to the vortex have you been
to the vortex in Atlanta you don’t you
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know you don’t mean you don’t mean these
the big skull oh no I was thinking of
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the varsity no I’ve not been to the
vortex I’ve been to the varsity well the
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varsity would also be a good place for
the chili cheese fries so both of those
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would would work so when you’re in
Atlanta next we’ll get some chili cheese
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fries at one of those places of your
choice would look would look forward to
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that would look forward to that all
right so let’s get to the episode issue
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and we’ve got a lot of listeners out in
the Scaling UP! nation that do wastewater
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treatment and we have probably just the
same amount that don’t do wastewater
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treatment but they want to or they’re
just starting so Kevin what I’m hoping
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that we can do is visually paint for the
Scaling UP! nation what we need to do
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step-by-step of course in a general
sense because we’re not in a particular
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plan and paint that picture for what
people have to do and what they can
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expect during a wastewater survey okay
we can do that we can do that let me
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start you up so we are now getting out
of our car we’ve pulled up to the plan
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of course we’ve had the conversation
going up to that customers location now
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we park the car we’ve probably looked at
things as we drove in now we’re outside
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of the car we might be grabbing
equipment what are we doing and take us
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from there well let’s I mean just by one
we’ll just be real clear
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that we’ve already talked with the plant
and we know exactly what their needs are
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they need to meet discharge limits they
need to reduce costs they need to reduce
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the amount of sludge of generating so
we’ve already found that out that has
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already been done and now we’re going
into the plant for the first time to
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survey the plant and run some tests and
and understand you know how can we help
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this customer so we’re at that point now
because we went through a lot of that
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when we did the last podcast the
preliminary information that you need to
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obtain before you start to run a test so
we’re past that so when you walk into
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the plant for the very first time
obviously you go through all the safety
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10:53.3
requirements make sure you have the
proper PPE make sure you’ve signed in
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all the specific documents you need so
you’re walking into the plant for the
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first time and each plant is going to be
different but one of the things that
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you’re gonna find out is every time you
tour a plant the person that’s taking
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you on the tour will tell you this is
the most unique thing you’ll ever see
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and I’ve been doing this for 40 years
and I can count on one hand and one
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finger the only most unique thing I’ve
ever seen but at the same time it’s
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unique to them because they don’t have
the opportunity to see all these
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different facilities so you know yes it
is very unique to them but that’s their
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only one single point of reference so
I’m always cautious to say wow that is
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really you make up you know I’ve never
seen I’ve seen something similar to that
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but just be aware of that that that’s
one thing that that that the customers
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will tend to you know tell you that this
is the most unique thing you’re gonna
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see and so we do we do is you know I do
the wastewater training for the AWT and
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we we do a section on walking people
through the plant and if you look at a
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typical waste treatment plant they’ll
have some of these they’ll some they
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won’t have something we’ll have some
will be continuous some will be bad but
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some of the areas that we’re going to
focus in on talking about or what’s
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called screening equalization primary
treatment biological treatment sludge
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thickening sludge dewatering and
filtration so those are the what is it
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one two three four five six seven
things that you potentially can see in a
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plant again not every plant will have
this but every plant could have this and
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12:36.9
so when you just start thinking about
you know the original diff the first
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thing you’re going to come into is
screening and what screening is there’s
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really an area where you’re taking out
the big things the the the large pieces
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12:52.5
of maybe a piece of pipe that falls into
the plant or somebody’s hard hat or
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gross amounts of oil or gross amounts of
heavy solids and we call that screening
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and that’s really done just to keep any
of this real big stuff from coming into
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the plant screwing up you know pumps
plugging up piping so you know it’s
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called screening sometimes it’ll be
nothing more than a big open pit
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sometimes they’ll actually be screens
and and all that’s designed to do again
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is to get the big junk as it were out of
the out of the waste water so again
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that’s the first thing and typically
they’re you know you really aren’t going
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13:31.4
to do any testing it’s just it’s there
just to remove things and then the next
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the next really important area you’re
going to come to is what’s cool is a
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13:41.6
ssin and what equalization does is it
basically takes and equalizes not only
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the flow of the water but all the
contaminants and Dave Ritz does a really
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great job of explaining equalization and
if you would think of like waves real
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13:57.0
high waves like you see in when
somebody’s recording music and it’s been
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I’m sitting here drawing it was my
finger in the air but the waves are very
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very high and up and down up and down
and then it comes with equalization tank
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and then at the other side of
Equalization tanks those waves are very
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very small modest not as widely spread
and really what the equalization tank is
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doing is equalizing the flow and
equalizing the contaminants and the
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reason that that’s important is as those
contaminants come in or the flow and
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14:30.2
you’re trying to treat those you’re
constantly if you don’t have good
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14:35.1
equalization you’re constantly turning
up or turning down your pump you know
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14:39.0
and and it makes for a very very very
difficult
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14:45.5
treatment program if the equalization is
not adequate or even in place and a lot
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14:50.4
of times that’s one of the biggest
problems that we see is people just
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14:54.6
don’t have adequate equalization so you
know if I’m being real clear on that but
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14:59.3
it there’s there you know that sometimes
we can feed chemical into the into the
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15:06.2
equalization but for the most part it’s
really just there to equalize the flow
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15:09.7
into the plant alright sure I think that
makes perfect sense
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yeah and that’s really a very very
important you know part of a treatment
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15:18.5
plant that we see even if it’s a bad
treatment or if it’s continuous and you
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15:21.7
know the difference obviously with
batches you fill the tank up before your
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15:24.1
chemicals in a lot of the reactions to
occur
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15:28.1
continuous is the waters flowing
continuously into your facility and
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15:32.1
you’re treating on a continuous basis
then the water is being clarified
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15:37.9
through some kind of a continuous
operation so that’s kind of the next
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15:42.2
step is equalization so screaming
equalization and then we have what we
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15:46.5
call primary treat and this is really
kind of where the rubber hits the road
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15:52.6
you have either a dissolved air
flotation and induced air flotation
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15:58.6
clarifier it can be a circular clarifier
it can be a rectangular clarifier it can
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16:03.9
be a parallel plate clarifier also known
as lamella so every place will differ on
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16:10.4
what their primary clarification is and
I do you want me to explain all of those
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16:14.9
or is that is that sufficient Tracy I
think that’s great but if you’re willing
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16:19.1
yeah add you keep the Scaling UP! nation
okay well okay let’s talk first about
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16:23.0
dissolved air flotation and you also
hear bubble air flotation now various
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16:26.2
other names for it
but with dissolved air flotation what
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16:30.6
happens is we take some of the waste
water usually clean waste water coming
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16:35.2
off the end of the system put it into a
pressurization tank and then release
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16:39.5
that water from outside from the
pressurization tank where it’s mixed
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16:44.6
with air and I live in Pittsburgh and so
in the summer times and in the fall we
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16:49.1
will get water and we’ll pour it from
our tap and there will be white bubbles
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16:52.0
very very tiny bubbles that will come
the
16:52.0
16:56.9
talk and that’s what it dissolved there
the this daf dissolved air flotation is
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17:01.8
designed to do is they create these
micro very fine bubbles and have those
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17:06.9
bring the solids to the top of the unit
where it’s then skimmed off so that’s
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17:11.1
what’s called a dissolved or a gas air
flotation their units that are designed
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17:17.0
to by the use of air to bring the solids
be an oil be it light solids to the top
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17:22.4
where it can be skimmed off a clarifier
does just the opposite a clarifier is
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17:27.0
designed for the particles to come to
the bottom and at the bottom then
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17:31.9
there’s some kind of a rake system that
rates the solids out of the clarifier
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17:38.0
and those are typically used when the
solids are a little heavier I I actually
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17:44.5
treated at a bowling ball facility years
ago they actually had a dissolved air
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17:48.9
flotation tank in a bowling ball
manufacturer now those things are heavy
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17:54.6
right yeah yeah yeah I was the comments
race was really you’re you’re trying to
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17:59.9
float bowling balls and I mean this day
I still laugh about that way but it you
17:59.9
18:03.2
know but you know I’d always make this
comment when you see something like that
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18:07.2
there’s always a salesmen out selling
the equipment you have to remember that
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18:11.7
that you know there’s somebody that sold
this piece of equipment and he must have
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18:16.4
been a pretty darn good salesman to sell
a flotation system and do a bowling ball
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18:21.4
facility but but typically what you do
is if the stuff and begin to end
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18:24.8
engineers do this but if if the
materials will settle you use a
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18:30.0
clarifying a clarifier is just a big
open area where the solids can settle to
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18:34.4
the bottom and then their scrape they’re
raped off the bottom of the off to
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18:39.4
clarify what what the industry has also
done and they just it’s going to be very
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18:44.1
common now or what are called parallel
plate separators or lamella it’s kind of
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18:49.4
like calling tissue Kleenex lamella
clarifiers and what those are are is a
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18:54.5
series of plates and I apologize I don’t
know the angle there’s a specific angle
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18:59.7
that these plates are put in and the
water is forced up these plates and what
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19:04.9
that does is helps with separation you
also get contact with the sludge that
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19:08.8
hits the plates be
the particles larger and makes them
19:08.8
19:13.2
settle out and so the reason those are
nice is they really and we in our
19:13.2
19:17.4
industry you know the AWT market you’re
going to see a lot of those because they
19:17.4
19:22.1
take up a fairly small footprint
compared to circular or our square
19:22.1
19:27.0
rectangular clarifiers so you either
gonna bottom line here you’re either
19:27.0
19:31.8
gonna float the material or you’re gonna
let it sink so it’s going to be one of
19:31.8
19:35.7
the two it’s either gonna float or sink
and you have plans that doesn’t go
19:35.7
19:38.5
anywhere and you got a problem but
typically it’s you know it’ll either
19:38.5
19:42.9
float or sink and that’s called primary
clarification and in those applications
19:42.9
19:48.6
this is where you feed your coagulants
and your flocculants and what you’re
19:48.6
19:53.2
trying to do with a coagulant is you’re
trying to neutralize very very very tiny
19:53.2
19:57.7
particles if you think of these tiny
particles as being magnets and in the
19:57.7
20:01.4
water and they all have negative charges
and they’re bouncing off of each other
20:01.4
20:06.0
and they don’t want to come together we
put in a coagulant be it an inorganic or
20:06.0
20:12.1
organic coagulant and what it does is it
neutralizes those charges and now allows
20:12.1
20:17.4
for those particles to come together and
become bigger you also hear the word pin
20:17.4
20:21.2
flock create a pin flock well they’re
particles are a little bigger but
20:21.2
20:26.0
they’re still not as big as we want them
to be to either sink or to float they’re
20:26.0
20:30.0
there but but at the same time they will
eventually sink or float much quickly
20:30.0
20:35.1
much more quickly than they would if
they weren’t coagulated so now we have
20:35.1
20:40.0
these little pin flocks created we then
feed a flocculent which is if you think
20:40.0
20:45.4
of it as being a long chain of pearls
and on the pearls then maybe every fifth
20:45.4
20:50.6
pearl is a red pearl and that pearl that
red pearl is a charged sight and so now
20:50.6
20:54.6
these big long strand of pearls come in
and they attract these little pin flocks
20:54.6
20:59.8
to make them bigger and in the case of
settling they’ll settle faster because
20:59.8
21:05.1
they’re bigger if they’re floating you
can while you’re populating it you can
21:05.1
21:10.7
indeed even trap air and have them rise
to the top more quickly so in the in the
21:10.7
21:16.7
primary step in wastewater treatment
this is really where the coagulants and
21:16.7
21:20.8
flocculants are fed to help with those
reaction
21:20.8
21:26.9
those rise or settling I guess I should
also note the other materials can be fed
21:26.9
21:30.2
there would be things like metal
precipitants if you’re trying to take
21:30.2
21:35.4
metals out maybe some kind of a lime if
you’re trying to take phosphate out it
21:35.4
21:39.3
really this is really where the rubber
hits the road where you’re really
21:39.3
21:44.1
removing the big contaminants on what
you’re really trying to take out of the
21:44.1
21:49.1
system is in the primary clarification
and again that’s where that’s where the
21:49.1
21:53.2
majority of the chemicals are being sold
and we’re usually the biggest focus is
21:53.2
21:57.9
that when you’re you know walking and
learning about a treatment plan Kevin I
21:57.9
22:04.7
gotta tell you that was the clearest and
most concise definition of what a plant
22:04.7
22:09.6
is and what it does that I have ever
heard that’s amazing well thank you it’s
22:09.6
22:13.5
it’s it’s come from a lot of I really
enjoy working with young people in the
22:13.5
22:18.2
industry love that always above it and
I’ve always felt that how do I make it
22:18.2
22:23.2
as clear and again Trace no pun intended
here how can I make it as clear as
22:23.2
22:28.8
possible for them and you know I I wish
I could take credit for the Perl
22:28.8
22:34.3
description that was taught to me got 35
years ago and that’s always stuck with
22:34.3
22:38.2
me in a lot of times when I do the class
I’ll actually have a Perl and we’re not
22:38.2
22:41.1
gonna get into molecular weights and
charge and all that right now but but
22:41.1
22:44.2
I’ll have a these little strand of
pearls and I’ll explain it and I can see
22:44.2
22:48.3
people’s eyes kind of start to
understand it I’ve also heard
22:48.3
22:53.8
flocculation be described as flypaper
where it’s sticking things stick to it
22:53.8
22:58.4
you know I’ve seen that too and but to
me that this is really the essence of
22:58.4
23:04.2
what we try to do in the training of the
AWT is really give the folks some kind
23:04.2
23:07.9
of an idea what they’re going to see
when they walk it so I thank you for
23:07.9
23:12.7
that but it’s I appreciate that it’s
been it’s been a lot of a lot of working
23:12.7
23:16.5
to get that’s where I can explain to
people what they’re seeing when they’re
23:16.5
23:21.7
looking at precipitation coagulation and
flocculation well I think many water
23:21.7
23:27.3
treaters get caught up in the big words
and trying to prove to the other party
23:27.3
23:31.8
that’s listing how smart they are and
what ends up happening is the other
23:31.8
23:35.9
party has no idea what they’re talking
about but they’re too embarrassed to say
23:35.9
23:39.5
that so they walk away not knowing
anything more than when the conversation
23:39.5
23:45.8
started and I love it when people that
have a huge amount of information like
23:45.8
23:51.1
yourself can boil that down so now
everybody can get in the party so thank
23:51.1
23:54.9
you for doing that and you better
believe I am stealing that pearl
23:54.9
24:00.9
demonstration like I said well if you
really want to take it to the final end
24:00.9
24:06.9
on that what in the in flocculants the
flocculants can be cationic or non ionic
24:06.9
24:11.6
or anionic for the most part the
non-annex are just very very very low
24:11.6
24:15.4
analytic so you really have negatively
charged and positively charged so when I
24:15.4
24:19.9
do my talk I have one strand of pearls
with red pearls and I have one with
24:19.9
24:24.2
green pearls and just you know and talk
about you know and then you can make the
24:24.2
24:29.7
strand longer or shorter depending on
how long the molecular weight is or add
24:29.7
24:33.9
more colored pearls to increase the
charge density so it’s something that’s
24:33.9
24:38.0
always stuck with me so be happy to give
you a tutorial on how to put your pearls
24:38.0
24:43.5
together for free for the talk but
that’s that’s the best way I found ya so
24:43.5
24:48.4
once primary clarification of them we
move into secondary and secondary
24:48.4
24:52.0
clarification is really where you’re
going to take out some of the dissolve
24:52.0
24:57.5
materials specifically the Bo d co D
things that can be biologically broken
24:57.5
25:01.6
down alright in our industry I don’t
know what the percentage would be but I
25:01.6
25:05.9
don’t think we’re going to see a lot of
the secondary treatment we may a lot of
25:05.9
25:10.3
lot of the food plants almost every food
plant will have secondary treatment and
25:10.3
25:15.8
what happens there is you have bugs and
when I started in this industry and the
25:15.8
25:19.5
first time I heard somebody call bugs I
just looked at them like really that’s
25:19.5
25:24.3
the word you use and that is the word
that is accepted when we talk in this
25:24.3
25:29.5
industry so what happens is you have
these aeration pause where bubbling air
25:29.5
25:35.3
all the time and there’s bugs in there
and these bugs will eat you organics and
25:35.3
25:40.4
break them down okay and these bugs will
break these organics down cleaning the
25:40.4
25:44.1
water and then this water that has all
these bugs in it
25:44.1
25:48.0
will be taken and brought into a
clarifier just like we just talked
25:48.0
25:52.3
about where they’ll settle out the clean
water will continue we’ll get into where
25:52.3
25:56.4
the clean water goes in a minute
but the the sludge the bug sludge that
25:56.4
26:01.5
settles to the bottom that is one of two
things can happen to that they can
26:01.5
26:06.6
either recycle that back to the
beginning of the secondary treatment or
26:06.6
26:11.8
they can waste it to get rid of some of
the bugs now here’s why this this is
26:11.8
26:15.7
another little way somebody explained
this to me that stuck with me my entire
26:15.7
26:21.7
career if you think of the biological
aerobic digester so what it’s called a
26:21.7
26:26.2
narrow big digester there’s air present
as a community and you think of that as
26:26.2
26:32.0
being people okay and you have these
bugs basically people and you have young
26:32.0
26:37.5
bugs you have medium age bugs and you
have old bugs and if you think of our
26:37.5
26:41.8
society really the young people the
young babies and stuff really don’t do a
26:41.8
26:46.4
whole lot of work for the society but
now you get to the middle age you know
26:46.4
26:51.1
young adults too you know
yeah little older adults really who do
26:51.1
26:55.9
the primary work within our society then
you have the elderly which really don’t
26:55.9
27:01.4
do a lot of work so what happens is in
this bug community now if you start
27:01.4
27:06.2
getting too young the bugs are too young
you don’t get a lot of work if the bugs
27:06.2
27:10.7
are getting too old you don’t get a lot
of work work being removed or the
27:10.7
27:15.7
organics so what these customers will do
is they’ll take this sludge and they’ll
27:15.7
27:20.1
analyze it and they’ll say well we’re
getting too old we’re going to waste
27:20.1
27:25.2
some of the sludge to move the but the
the sludge age more down into the medium
27:25.2
27:31.6
range and and conversely if we have too
young the sludge we won’t waste we’ll
27:31.6
27:37.3
let those bugs become older and become
more in that center group and so that’s
27:37.3
27:41.8
always stuck with me on how to explain
biological treatment so what you’re
27:41.8
27:46.2
trying to do is have a healthy community
of bugs which break down the organics
27:46.2
27:51.7
and and clean the water and taking you
organics out and you do that by aeration
27:51.7
27:56.9
where you have the air just like our
society air you have food food being the
27:56.9
28:00.4
waste it’s coming in and then you have
the bugs the communities that are
28:00.4
28:04.4
breaking this material
down and again that’s called secondary
28:04.4
28:10.6
treatment once again Kevin the best
definition I have ever heard of that
28:10.6
28:15.0
being described outstanding I give I
give credit where credit is due on this
28:15.0
28:18.8
one that was not me that was a gentleman
up at the waste treatment plant
28:18.8
28:22.8
he was the Klan operator and I had a
young girl I was true I was training
28:22.8
28:26.4
there with me and and we were talking
and I was walking through he goes do you
28:26.4
28:30.6
mind if I get involved on you’re not at
all and he’s the one that came up and
28:30.6
28:34.3
gave me that description on how it
worked and that’s always stuck with me
28:34.3
28:39.0
and I’ve always felt that that is one of
the best ways to describe what’s
28:39.0
28:43.2
happening in a biologic treatment I mean
it’s so much more complicated than that
28:43.2
28:48.0
but that John and and I and I have no
problem I stole it that I said can I use
28:48.0
28:53.0
it as you that and I’ve used that that
basic description of a biological
28:53.0
28:57.6
treatment plant as long as I can
remember and I mean that’s probably back
28:57.6
29:01.1
I probably did that back in my that
would have been my Calgon days is when
29:01.1
29:04.7
our dear might have been durable I can’t
remember but it I think it just gives it
29:04.7
29:08.9
paints a picture of what a bottle of the
biological treatment plan is all about
29:08.9
29:15.2
and a lot of people are concerned about
that you know it it’s it there’s some
29:15.2
29:19.2
little bit of hocus-pocus that can go on
there I mean you know you you can sell
29:19.2
29:23.6
you know bio augmentation which is great
what that does is it will focus in on
29:23.6
29:29.5
specific materials that need to be taken
out so a lot going on in the biological
29:29.5
29:34.9
treatment plants but thank you and again
that definite description was something
29:34.9
29:40.5
that an operator and block tell you what
get it all aside here we get to know the
29:40.5
29:44.5
plant operators these guys work with it
every day and I’ve learned so much from
29:44.5
29:50.0
those guys they they have taught me so
much information because they deal with
29:50.0
29:55.1
it every day and I think the true water
professional takes from one plant and
29:55.1
29:59.3
makes it work and that makes it work but
use of that information to help the next
29:59.3
30:03.7
plant totally agree with that totally
agree with it I really really enjoy
30:03.7
30:08.0
working with the operators and you know
here and there their troubles and why
30:08.0
30:11.3
they do what they do and you know what
this happens and things along this line
30:11.3
30:14.9
so but thank you but that that’s
basically in a nutshell
30:14.9
30:17.4
and when you
looking at a secondary treatment you
30:17.4
30:22.4
know some of the things you can sell is
if the sludge age gets out of whack if
30:22.4
30:26.0
it’s a really good sludge age you don’t
need a polymer to help it settle it’ll
30:26.0
30:29.9
settle on its own but if it gets out of
whack one way or the other you typically
30:29.9
30:34.7
need some kind of a flocculent usually a
cationic flocculent to help it set a lot
30:34.7
30:39.6
better with the sludge is too old or too
young help it sew up better we did talk
30:39.6
30:43.8
a little bit about bio augmentation what
are some of the bugs you can sell them
30:43.8
30:49.0
or or enzymes you can sell them to help
them increase their removal and have a
30:49.0
30:53.7
healthy community nutrients are another
area that it required phosphates are
30:53.7
30:58.2
required sometimes ammonia but those are
materials that can be fed into these
30:58.2
31:02.5
plans to keep them healthy keep it
healthy bug colony so you’re getting
31:02.5
31:08.0
good removal I should mention that’s
what’s called aerobic digestion in the
31:08.0
31:13.3
presence of air just like we think of in
our communities some of the sludge is
31:13.3
31:17.7
then taken to what are called anaerobic
digesters and what that is is what
31:17.7
31:22.1
you’re trying to do there is reduce the
volume of sludge through an anaerobic
31:22.1
31:26.8
digestion all right I don’t do a lot of
work in those like really can’t speak to
31:26.8
31:31.5
those but a lot of times the sludge will
come from some of the sludge will be
31:31.5
31:35.3
brought in to an anaerobic digester
and what you’re doing there again is
31:35.3
31:39.2
reduced the amount of sludge you’re
creating methane and it’s just a way of
31:39.2
31:43.0
reducing the amount of sludge that
you’re generating in a waste treatment
31:43.0
31:48.5
plant that has a biological treatment
because to halt that off that’s an extra
31:48.5
31:53.1
expense exactly exactly and so what
you’re trying to do and not always been
31:53.1
31:56.8
in most cases you’re trying to reduce
the amount of sludge that you’re
31:56.8
32:02.0
generating and anaerobic digester will
do that will reduce the amount the
32:02.0
32:07.1
volume of biological sludge that you’re
generating very good so that’s so we’ve
32:07.1
32:10.6
gone through we’ve gone through
screening equalization primary
32:10.6
32:14.4
clarification secondary clarification
the next area is what’s called
32:14.4
32:18.8
thickening and what’s thickening is is
simply what you’re doing is you’re
32:18.8
32:24.2
taking the bugs that you’ve generated
either via the use of aerobic or
32:24.2
32:29.0
anaerobic digestion and you’re reducing
that and the first step
32:29.0
32:32.9
is what’s called sludge thickening and
what you’re simply doing there is if you
32:32.9
32:36.3
were to think very much just like a
clarifier we’ve already talked about
32:36.3
32:40.3
you’re bringing that sludge in there and
there’s a lot of water in that sludge
32:40.3
32:45.2
and so what you’re trying to do is
you’re trying to thicken that sludge
32:45.2
32:49.5
you’re trying to get as much of the
gross water out of that as possible and
32:49.5
32:54.4
simply they’re typically at flocculent
is used some time a coagulant and
32:54.4
32:59.8
flocculent but you’re trying to just
simply reduce the amount of water coming
32:59.8
33:04.4
out of the biological treatment plant
and again it’s called sludge thickening
33:04.4
33:09.4
again it’s basically a clarifier I have
seen DAF units be they’re being used
33:09.4
33:14.6
also but some kind of a piece of
equipment to take gross amounts of water
33:14.6
33:20.2
out of the biological sludge prior to
the next step so what’s called the
33:20.2
33:25.3
thickening step and not all plants will
have that again back to one of my very
33:25.3
33:30.2
early comments is not every plant will
have this but just to understand that
33:30.2
33:35.0
people can have it it’s really basically
a thickening step to take gross amounts
33:35.0
33:40.5
of water out all right and so from
thickening the next step and really very
33:40.5
33:45.7
important step now is sludge dewatering
and you know in some cases you know you
33:45.7
33:49.9
can call thickening being part of sludge
dewatering but the the the sludge
33:49.9
33:55.1
dewatering is really where you’re taking
the sludge and you’re taking and making
33:55.1
34:00.6
and taking as much water as possible you
know Trace it’s amazing to this day when
34:00.6
34:05.5
I see sludge coming off an end of a
centrifuge or off a belt press or off
34:05.5
34:11.8
you know a valve plate you frame press
you know there’s probably there can be
34:11.8
34:17.0
60 to 70 percent water in that slut and
I stand and I look at that and I say
34:17.0
34:21.5
really I mean it looks dry I mean it
just so it’s a it always just amazes me
34:21.5
34:25.8
is how much water
even after sludge dewatering how much
34:25.8
34:31.0
water can remain in that sludge but
basically what you’re trying to do and
34:31.0
34:34.5
it’s gonna be a little difficult to
explain this but you’re basically trying
34:34.5
34:40.6
to coagulate or flocculate the flocks
the flocks making them even larger and
34:40.6
34:46.4
which then repels the water
from the sludge and then you take in in
34:46.4
34:52.5
the case of a belt press or a plate and
frame you put that sludge either onto a
34:52.5
34:58.1
onto a like a up a cloth and the water
then percolates through the cloth
34:58.1
35:03.0
leaving the remaining sludge behind and
in the case of a belt press you know
35:03.0
35:06.7
it’s pressed a little more to get more
of the water out in the case of a plate
35:06.7
35:12.0
and frame it’s pressurized by the pump
to push more water out of the sludge and
35:12.0
35:17.5
you’re always costly trying to dry the
sludge reduce the amount of water reduce
35:17.5
35:21.7
haul off cost or in the case of a
centrifuge you’re spinning it in
35:21.7
35:27.3
spinning the solids out of the sludge to
make a dry or what we call a drier cake
35:27.3
35:32.2
so it’s sludge dewatering and sludge
dewatering from a from a lucrative
35:32.2
35:37.1
standpoint can be very lucrative
we always joke a centrifuge and a belt
35:37.1
35:42.1
press will take polymer a plate and
frame typically does not not a hundred
35:42.1
35:46.9
percent of the time but when you add
polymer to a belt press you’re basically
35:46.9
35:51.5
trying to break out free water which
then drains down through the cloth and a
35:51.5
35:55.1
belt press or in the case of a
centrifuge you’re trying to make the
35:55.1
36:01.4
particles larger which then helps with
center fusing the larger particles spin
36:01.4
36:06.7
further and and more effective more
efficiently leaving the water behind in
36:06.7
36:12.1
the case of a plate and frame and what
happens there is the pump is pushing
36:12.1
36:17.7
into these cavities that are enough
claws on them and as it’s pumping in the
36:17.7
36:21.6
pressure from the pump is forcing the
water through the sludge and then
36:21.6
36:26.1
through the claws in and out so those
are there’s other ways of doing it but
36:26.1
36:29.6
those are the three most common
centrifuge where you’re spinning the
36:29.6
36:34.7
sludge and allowing the heavier sludge
to go to the outside of this of the spin
36:34.7
36:39.4
and the centrifuge leaving the water
behind belt press where you have sludge
36:39.4
36:43.5
hitting on a belt that’s continually
moving the water percolates down through
36:43.5
36:47.7
the sludge then a second belt comes and
you you get two belts coming together
36:47.7
36:53.3
and it goes through a series of rollers
that press the water out and then lastly
36:53.3
37:01.5
a plate and frame in essence you have
these caverns these these plates that
37:01.5
37:08.2
are that are hollow but on the inside of
the plates is a filter cloth which the
37:08.2
37:12.6
pump pressure pushes the sludge up
against the claws and then water
37:12.6
37:16.8
percolates through the sludge through
the claws and in the dispose though and
37:16.8
37:22.0
that’s called sludge thickening and
there you know it from up from a
37:22.0
37:27.5
treatment standpoint a lot of times
there are significant amount of a
37:27.5
37:33.0
product as neither for sludge dewatering
so that’s the the next step so we’ve
37:33.0
37:39.0
gone screening equalization primary
clarification secondary clarification
37:39.0
37:44.9
thickening sludge dewatering and then
lastly the last the last and again this
37:44.9
37:50.3
has not always been filtration and and
what happens in filtration is what
37:50.3
37:54.5
you’re trying to do there is you’re
trying to take the last small amount of
37:54.5
37:59.8
particles that may carry over from the
clarifier or carry over from the DAF
37:59.8
38:04.0
unit you want to take those out so
there’ll be some kind of a filtration
38:04.0
38:10.7
step at the end of a waste treatment
plant and it can be sand it can be what
38:10.7
38:14.9
a variety of different mechanisms used
that just basically filter and it’s
38:14.9
38:20.9
really just kind of the last step to did
reduce any kind of carryover that you
38:20.9
38:25.3
might get from the waste treatment plan
and there you know you can do you can do
38:25.3
38:30.5
some things there with with polymers to
help with you know catching any of the
38:30.5
38:34.2
last little bit I’ve seen companies do
what’s called a pre coat where they’ll
38:34.2
38:39.9
feed polymer prior to the filter coat
the coat the particles and then whenever
38:39.9
38:44.6
the particles come through they tend to
stick a little better to the sand or the
38:44.6
38:49.9
media whatever the media may be so I
know I know that now Co had done that
38:49.9
38:54.0
quite a bit back in the back when I was
in the field quite often they would do
38:54.0
38:58.3
what’s called a pre coat of a of a sand
filter so but then and that’s the last
38:58.3
39:03.9
step so that’s basically walking someone
through a waste treatment plant you know
39:03.9
39:06.9
these are these are the steps you’re not
going to see them all but you
39:06.9
39:09.9
potentially these are things you could
see and
39:09.9
39:13.5
you know my recommendation is when
you’re going through ask ask what are
39:13.5
39:17.2
you trying to do here you know what do
you try to remove what are you what is
39:17.2
39:21.6
this piece of equipment used for the
operator’s love to tell people about
39:21.6
39:25.5
their plants so that I’ve always found
it fascinating
39:25.5
39:30.9
you know how they explain things and and
you know willing to work with you to
39:30.9
39:35.2
really explain what you’re trying to do
in a facility Kevin this has been
39:35.2
39:40.6
fantastic again those were some great
explanations so I want to thank you for
39:40.6
39:47.1
that you know I want to bring you back
and let’s next week talk about what the
39:47.1
39:52.3
water treatment professional needs to do
now that they know what’s inside the
39:52.3
39:57.8
plant I would be honored to do it again
excellent nation I told you that Kevin
39:57.8
40:04.7
cope is just fantastic when it comes to
painting pictures just like you are
40:04.7
40:09.5
there I know you were all walking
through the waste water plant as he is
40:09.5
40:14.4
describing it and folks there’s just so
much great information we are going to
40:14.4
40:21.3
continue with Kevin next week so I look
forward to talking with all of you next
40:21.3
40:32.3
week as Kevin Koch joins us to conclude
this episode have a great week folks