62 Transcript

062 The One with the Pulsafeeder Guy


Transcript Disclaimer: This Transcript is provided and copied from YouTube, grammar and mistakes are present.


0:08.0

0:13.1

welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
for the entire water treatment industry

0:13.1

0:17.5

where we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so
we don’t Scale UP! our systems

0:17.5

0:22.2

hello Scaling UP! Nation Trace Blackmore
here and today’s show we’re going to be

0:22.2

0:28.8

talking to an individual that knows
equipment that can help us go home at

0:28.8

0:35.9

night we all know that if there were not
those processors and pumps and all those

0:35.9

0:40.8

things that are hung on the wall we
could not go home because we would be

0:40.8

0:47.6

the ones that would be delivering that
product on a 24/7 basis so I think it

0:47.6

0:53.4

just makes sense for us to have
individuals on this show who are experts

0:53.4

0:59.6

in that area so we can learn what some
common mistakes are and what some tips

0:59.6

1:06.5

and tricks are that can help us in our
day to day so we can do what we do

1:06.5

1:13.1

better and the only reason I know that
this is something that you all want out

1:13.1

1:17.4

there in the Scaling UP! Nation because
you write in and you tell me what it is

1:17.4

1:22.7

you want me to talk about on the show I
know you are sick of hearing me say this

1:22.7

1:29.4

but folks the only way I can continue
this show is if you allow me to get more

1:29.4

1:34.3

questions from your brains and the only
way that we’re going to do that is for

1:34.3

1:40.0

you going to scalinguph2o.com and
either leaving me a voicemail straight

1:40.0

1:45.8

on the website or you can leave me a
show idea email straight from the

1:45.8

1:51.9

website and I will get that and I know
what you want me to talk about where our

1:51.9

1:57.9

guest today is Laith Charles of Pulsafeeder.

Laith and I met though the Association of Water Technologies

1:57.9

2:02.5

technical training and it was actually
the fundamentals and applications

2:02.5

2:08.9

training he and a couple of his cohorts
there at Pulsafeeder attended that class

2:08.9

2:16.4

and they had a really good perspective
on the equipment side but what that did

2:16.4

2:20.7

that gave them a better perspective on
the user

2:20.7

2:23.9

side and they were asking some great
questions and they brought a lot of

2:23.9

2:28.8

great dialogue and you might not know
this but Pulsafeeder is one of the four

2:28.8

2:35.3

companies that helps us every year
through the demonstration portion of the

2:35.3

2:40.2

fundamentals and applications training
that what we do is we break up everybody

2:40.2

2:46.6

into four different teams if you will
and they get to put hands on the

2:46.6

2:51.3

equipment they get to ask questions
normally people like lathe have certain

2:51.3

2:55.7

troubleshooting items that they want you
to work through and they will guide you

2:55.7

3:00.6

through the process tom tinny of
lakewood he gets his multimeter out and

3:00.6

3:07.3

he shows you exactly how to figure out
if a probe is good or bad the fine folks

3:07.3

3:12.7

at Wahl Kim Laurie McPherson she makes
sure that you understand everything that

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3:18.1

you need to know about probes and of
course Chris Morris and John Shaw over

3:18.1

3:21.6

to Vantage controls they’re the other
people that round out before they do a

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3:25.7

great job to make sure that you
understand everything that you need to

3:25.7

3:30.2

know about that equipment and honestly
they all do that and they do that

3:30.2

3:34.5

because they want to help the industry
they do that because they want to help

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3:40.8

you they do that so you know that you
can call them if you ever need one of

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3:46.0

those pieces of equipment let’s not fool
anybody but because they are helping you

3:46.0

3:51.2

you want to call them you want to use
them as one of your vendors because

3:51.2

3:57.5

they’re allowing you to be a better
water treater so that is how I met lathe

3:57.5

4:01.4

Charles and I gotta tell you he is an
impressive guy he’s a young guy

4:01.4

4:04.7

of course at most everybody and the
scale in our nation is young compared to

4:04.7

4:10.1

me but that being said that doesn’t stop
him when he wants to learn something he

4:10.1

4:14.0

dives right in and he definitely did
that with the fundamentals and

4:14.0

4:18.3

applications training and I was so
impressed with him I wanted the Scaling

4:18.3

4:23.2

UP! Nation to meet him so Scaling UP!
Nation it’s my hope you enjoy my

4:23.2

4:28.1

interview with lathe Charles my lab
partner today is late Charles of Paul

4:28.1

4:33.5

Sofia how are you late I’m really good
trace thanks for having me on today it

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4:36.2

is a nap
pleasure to have you on of course I got

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4:40.1

to know you through the association of
Water Technologies and since that time

4:40.1

4:43.7

we’ve had a couple of conversations and
I’ve really enjoyed our correspondence

4:43.7

4:49.6

back and forth via email and I am
delighted to have you on Scaling UP! the

4:49.6

4:54.5

pleasure and the honor are all mine Trace
I appreciate you inviting me on.

4:54.5

5:00.0

absolutely and you have been great at
sending me questions and comments about

5:00.0

5:05.9

this show a matter of fact we were just
talking before this interview where you

5:05.9

5:10.5

had noted that I had made a mistake on a
previous podcast you want to talk about

5:10.5

5:16.3

that sure I mean I dabble yes I make
mistakes it happens no we all do and I

5:16.3

5:20.4

thought I’d made a huge blunder on on
some random math that I was working on

5:20.4

5:25.9

on the side I was doing some
calculations based on outside values and

5:25.9

5:31.1

then you were talking about LSI values
and how they correlate to phosphonates

5:31.1

5:37.5

and selecting organic versus inorganic
phosphonates and when you said LSI value

5:37.5

5:44.8

of six being the cutoff for scaling
versus corrosive nature I thought it was

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5:49.5

missing something no you were exactly
right and I made a mistake and Scaling

5:49.5

5:56.2

UP! Nation I am an RSI guy so my brain
thinks to RSI and PSI and RSI or the

5:56.2

5:59.9

exact same they they translate their
numbers correct of course they have

5:59.9

6:04.4

different calculations in them but I
think I meant to say psi and I

6:04.4

6:09.9

mistakenly said LSI the lingerie or
stability index and the middle of the

6:09.9

6:18.0

LSI scale is zero where the middle of
the RSI and psi scale is six and I

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6:23.0

believe in the phosphate episode which
was episode 46 I believe I was talking

6:23.0

6:27.4

about that basically you need carbonate
alkalinity in order for organic

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6:32.1

phosphates to work and if you don’t have
carbon and alkalinity in your systems

6:32.1

6:36.3

then that’s when you’re using an
inorganic phosphate so I appreciate you

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6:40.3

bringing that up because it allows me to
let the Scaling UP!  Nation know that yes

6:40.3

6:44.3

I made a mistake it was a misspeak
hopefully more than a mistake but if you

6:44.3

6:48.8

go on my show notes page for that up
so you will see that I have a correction

6:48.8

6:54.5

on there so late obviously you are a
listener of scaling up you’re a member

6:54.5

7:00.3

of the Scaling UP!  Nation and you also do
so many cool things in the water

7:00.3

7:04.6

treatment industry I’m hoping that you
can share with the Scaling UP! Nation

7:04.6

7:09.3

some of the things that you’re doing
currently sure I guess my current

7:09.3

7:14.2

professional endeavor is I am Regional
Sales Manager for poles a feeder up in

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7:19.4

the Pacific Northwest so I cover a
handful of states for Pulsafeeder and

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7:24.7

kind of get the privilege of providing
basically application engineering

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7:30.1

solutions for our customers not
necessarily limited to just the pulse of

7:30.1

7:34.0

your portfolio but really just lend a
hand in trying to figure out what’s the

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7:39.5

best way to solve this application
beyond that I dabble with an online blog

7:39.5

7:44.9

we’re gonna dive into a little bit later
but that vlogs called enthalpy and it’s

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7:49.3

really just a way of kind of expanding
my knowledge set of water treatment and

7:49.3

7:54.2

the applications that it touches and
something that keeps me kind of engaged

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7:59.4

and keeps my pulse on the water
treatment community so wait a second so

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8:04.9

you’re saying that you started the blog
so you could actually learn more about a

8:04.9

8:10.6

particular topic yeah it’s kind of a
weird way to do it I suppose but um I

8:10.6

8:14.9

think that’s how we all do it that’s why
I started this podcast I know people

8:14.9

8:20.0

give me way more credit than I deserve
but I am so hungry for information out

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8:24.7

there in this podcast gives me a
platform so I can continuously learn so

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8:27.8

yeah you’re doing the exact same thing
with the blog I think you’re doing it in

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8:34.2

the right order not the reverse order I
appreciate that but um it’s it’s

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8:37.8

different if you’re trying to speak
about something as if you’re

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8:43.0

knowledgeable on the topic the level of
understanding that you need is

8:43.0

8:48.1

exponentially higher than just kind of
blindly plugging and chugging numbers

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8:52.8

and just accepting things as status quo
cuz you know you put something out there

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8:55.6

a piece of information and you’re gonna
get challenged on that and you’ve got to

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9:00.6

be able to say well I see that
perspective but this is why I have this

9:00.6

9:03.9

piñon you know basically do your
homework yeah I’m trying to think there

9:03.9

9:07.2

was a book catch me if you can I can’t
remember the author they made a movie

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9:11.3

about it Tom Hanks was in it and
Leonardo DiCaprio and they were

9:11.3

9:16.3

interviewing him once they caught him in
the book basically what he was doing he

9:16.3

9:21.2

was assuming false identities and he was
very successful at assuming these

9:21.2

9:24.7

identities and the FBI could never catch
him because he was always one step ahead

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9:31.1

and he was a college professor he taught
like these very high complicated topics

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9:34.3

and they asked him how could you do that
he goes well because I read a chapter

9:34.3

9:38.5

ahead of all the students so he was just
one chapter ahead in the textbook but it

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9:42.8

was enough so he seemed like an expert
so since we’re talking about your blog

9:42.8

9:45.4

tell us tell us a little bit more about
your blog what are some of the things

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9:49.2

that you’re writing about and what are
some of the things that you have on it

9:49.2

9:58.3

so the blog right now is really just
kind of a an overarching dive on cooling

9:58.3

10:04.6

towers as all I think my first post was
about kind of cooling tower startup and

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10:09.6

it correlated with kind of the warmer
weather and it just gave some some light

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10:13.3

tips and tricks on yeah these are the
things that some people might neglect to

10:13.3

10:17.1

do when they turn on their system for
the first time you know certain

10:17.1

10:21.3

elastomers might have dried out certain
probes might have been left dry so just

10:21.3

10:25.7

doing the diligence to replace them but
but since then I’ve kind of stole from

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10:31.1

from you trace learning from the
fundamentals you you had someone stand

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10:35.6

on this stool and the stool has four
legs and these legs are kind of the

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10:43.4

pillars of cooling tower control and I
piggybacked on that and basically put a

10:43.4

10:50.5

post on each of those pillars and tried
to add my own spin on it because I’m not

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10:54.0

a chemist
that’s not my forte, pulsafeeder make

10:54.0

11:01.2

equipment control equipment pumps tons
of accessories and kind of my area of of

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11:05.5

cording quit expertise is really on how
the equipment works kind of what are the

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11:08.9

limitations of the equipment how to
correctly install that equipment and

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11:13.9

then I get to kind of see some of the
installation issues that vary

11:13.9

11:18.7

customers might have come across and you
know I can kind of speak to those wait

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11:22.9

correct me if I’m wrong but you’re an
electrical engineer is that correct yeah

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11:28.3

that’s correct so I graduated out of
Orlando ironically where the AWT

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11:33.1

convention is this year but some I’m a
UCF grad so so go Knights

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11:36.9

I got my degree in electrical
engineering and then just started right

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11:41.3

after college working for balsa feeder
in our engineering department designing

11:41.3

11:46.3

testing products for them I worked on
our cooling tower controller at the

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11:49.6

Micronesian TX and I just eventually
over time became more and more

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11:53.8

customer-facing getting more and more
application experience and then from

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11:59.2

that point it was just kind of an
organic transition into basically my

11:59.2

12:04.2

role today where I’m very very customer
facing and a regional sales position so

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12:10.3

you are proof that engineers do more
than simply drive trains the living

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12:14.6

proof well you brought up also feeder of
course that is the company that you work

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12:20.0

for and love so let’s talk a little bit
about Pulsafeeder what are some of the

12:20.0

12:25.8

new things that you guys have to offer
us in a Scaling UP!  Nation yeah I mean

12:25.8

12:30.8

Pulsafeeder are known for pumps
there’s nothing really changed about

12:30.8

12:35.9

that we still make one of the most
reliable cost-effective pumps out there

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12:42.8

that’s our forte and it’s not changing
anytime soon but yeah Pulsafeeder kind

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12:47.6

of revamped their controller line
relatively recently we had an online

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12:51.7

controller but when I say online I’m
talking about communicating over like

12:51.7

12:59.7

baud 9600 you know kind of the older
realm of online communications so our

12:59.7

13:04.6

latest platform is the micro vision TX
and that’s our newer cooling tower

13:04.6

13:09.7

controller and we really kind of
reassessed the whole online platform

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13:15.6

with the the needs of the water treater
are and focused on our alert system our

13:15.6

13:21.7

report system and just integrating some
tools that make programming the

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13:27.6

controller easier and more error-free so
so that that’s really what’s

13:27.6

13:30.9

ooh the fall severe and what we’re
focusing on and then you know our

13:30.9

13:35.6

engineering teams always working on
perfecting or refining whether it’s a

13:35.6

13:41.2

pump accessory or new tool there’s so
much opportunity technology moves so

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13:45.5

fast and our industry isn’t exactly
known for adopting new technologies

13:45.5

13:51.9

rapidly so this is rift with how far
sensing equipment and these electronic

13:51.9

13:56.1

components had evolved so kind of what’s
successful in the market today which is

13:56.1

14:01.3

kind of an awesome opportunity being on
the engineering side of things when

14:01.3

14:06.4

you’re also on the customer facing side
so I’m curious what’s the biggest reason

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14:12.1

that you get from your customers which
would be our customers ultimately why

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14:17.6

they wouldn’t upgrade to something that
is later greater ultimately going to

14:17.6

14:23.9

save them money I think a lot of people
get concerned about security whenever

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14:29.5

you talk about something being online a
lot of customer perception is worried

14:29.5

14:36.0

about what will that make my system
vulnerable Pulsafeeder took security

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14:42.1

and minds and they kind of designed it
with with military-grade encryption with

14:42.1

14:48.3

that customer perception in mind the
other piece that I think really limits

14:48.3

14:53.8

customers from getting that controller
online is if they’re concerned about

14:53.8

14:59.0

security a lot of them don’t allow
controllers to be hardwired within their

14:59.0

15:04.3

network so then you have to start
exploring well do I need a modem at this

15:04.3

15:09.2

installation and do I have to pay for a
cell contract and and who exactly is

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15:14.1

covering the cost of that that modem and
then kind of the recurring data fees

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15:18.7

that we’re gonna have to sustain and I
mean there’s tons of ways to do that

15:18.7

15:23.9

tons of ways to kind of handle that cost
some people are absorbing the costs

15:23.9

15:26.9

themselves the water treater they say
this is how we do it

15:26.9

15:31.1

it helps us manage our system better we
provide more value to the customer by

15:31.1

15:34.6

just building that into the contract
absorbing that cost and providing them

15:34.6

15:39.0

better service because we have now
better visibility so the processes we

15:39.0

15:43.1

control some of them are
very customer driven customers say nope

15:43.1

15:47.6

I want this I’m happy to pay more money
for this and then others are kind of

15:47.6

15:53.5

enforced by regulatory compliance you
know the the whole city of New York has

15:53.5

15:59.8

additional requirements which kind of
make being a water treaty in New York

15:59.8

16:04.1

without online controllers very
difficult yeah because you would have to

16:04.1

16:08.5

be at that account at the exact second
that you got the test result that was

16:08.5

16:13.2

showing that it was positive to make
that change so the only way those guys

16:13.2

16:18.6

can even go home is to have their
controllers online yeah and if they

16:18.6

16:24.9

don’t have it online then the testing
interval goes up dramatically to an

16:24.9

16:30.5

almost unsustainable level you know we
have many of our clients online and it

16:30.5

16:35.6

allows us to do our job better
especially with Legionella testing as

16:35.6

16:40.4

soon as we get a positive back or so
we’ve got to send that to a lab and they

16:40.4

16:45.7

send it back we can make that adjustment
right then and there if we didn’t have

16:45.7

16:49.4

that we would have to stop what we were
doing and then go all the way out to

16:49.4

16:53.6

wherever that might be to make that
adjustment well now we can make the

16:53.6

16:58.0

adjustment as soon as we get the notice
and then we can start driving to that

16:58.0

17:01.6

account to do whatever else we need to
do and we can do other tests and other

17:01.6

17:05.7

checks because our product has already
fed yeah exactly

17:05.7

17:11.1

you’re very forward-thinking and being
proactive about that and having that

17:11.1

17:16.0

online function available to you now
you’re already ahead of curve well I’m

17:16.0

17:21.5

sure you have seen things going out and
working with us water treatment folk

17:21.5

17:26.3

that you have just scratched your head
and thought why did you hook this up

17:26.3

17:32.2

this way with keeping everybody
protected and using no names I’m curious

17:32.2

17:36.1

what installation nightmares have you
seen out there

17:36.1

17:42.2

well I’ll hit on the fact again that my
forte is equipment and not chemistry so

17:42.2

17:47.7

the amount of information that a water
Trier is expected to know is

17:47.7

17:51.4

astronomical not only do you have to
know about the chemistry side of it but

17:51.4

17:54.8

you have to know about the process the
open-loop side the

17:54.8

17:59.8

closed-loop side chiller that it’s
almost unreal so when I see something

17:59.8

18:05.1

I’m like huh that’s a little odd or
that’s a little different have my scope

18:05.1

18:10.7

of knowledge of information is narrow
and it’s very equipment centric so

18:10.7

18:16.9

needless to say that probably one of the
most common things that I see are just

18:16.9

18:22.0

installation set up things that that are
just odd I’ve seen coupon racks that are

18:22.0

18:27.3

mounted you know turned 90 degrees with
the flow going the wrong way I see that

18:27.3

18:30.5

more often than I’d like to admit to you
they’re not our accounts but they’re

18:30.5

18:35.2

they’re ones that we are trying to get
yeah folks there’s an asme standard on

18:35.2

18:40.5

how to hang those yes there is and it’s
very particular about kind of the

18:40.5

18:44.5

spacing between the coupons and you know
obviously you know the metallurgy as

18:44.5

18:47.7

well the order to put the coupons in
there’s there’s so much stuff to

18:47.7

18:53.0

consider probably one of the things I
don’t see the most is kind of probe

18:53.0

18:58.5

installation specifically the pH ORP
probes and if you ever deal with

18:58.5

19:03.3

something that’s the kion specific
those are probes that are very very

19:03.3

19:08.4

finicky they want water within a certain
pressure range within a certain

19:08.4

19:13.1

temperature range within a certain flow
range and you’re expected to just whip

19:13.1

19:17.3

that up out of thin air and make it work
and you know these are real-world

19:17.3

19:23.7

processes but I’ll see comfortably 10 20
gallons per minute going across a pH

19:23.7

19:27.0

probe and I’ll tell you that pH probe
isn’t gonna last

19:27.0

19:32.0

near as long as if you installed it with
it’s recommended three to five gallons

19:32.0

19:36.1

per minute going across the probe so
yeah that’s probably the one that causes

19:36.1

19:41.6

the most issues well let me ask you a
question about pH and ORP probes so in

19:41.6

19:46.7

addition to making sure that you have
the right flow parameters going through

19:46.7

19:51.8

those probes I know they also have to be
in a specific orientation and I’ve seen

19:51.8

19:54.1

them up
I’ve seen them down I’ve seen them to

19:54.1

20:01.7

the side where should they be in that
sample line so pH ORP probe should be

20:01.7

20:07.8

vertically mounted and flow should be
going then horizontal across it so it’s

20:07.8

20:11.3

going into a tea
the probe should be upright going down

20:11.3

20:16.8

into solution and then yeah yet then
just observe the flow recommendations I

20:16.8

20:23.0

would strongly advise putting also like
a trap on the probe and by trap I just

20:23.0

20:27.2

mean like a little dip in the piping or
an elbow some people ship their panels

20:27.2

20:32.4

kind of that way but that is to keep the
probe wet should there be a no flow

20:32.4

20:36.0

situation I don’t know if you’re piping
drains in your in your process or not

20:36.0

20:41.3

but if it does you definitely want to
trap you do not want this probes to dry

20:41.3

20:47.4

out trying out is another recipe for
disaster when it comes to kind of early

20:47.4

20:52.5

failure off of these probes so thinking
out loud which you’re saying is in your

20:52.5

20:57.1

flow assembly you want those probes to
be at the bottom of the assembly so they

20:57.1

21:01.8

don’t run out of water yeah if you can
put a mini trap where it’s just a step

21:01.8

21:07.3

okay so the level drops down you want
the probes to be then going into that

21:07.3

21:12.5

lower section of pipe go the one that
should ideally not drain because you do

21:12.5

21:17.0

have a little trap there all right
that’s great advice let me ask what

21:17.0

21:23.4

would happen if somebody did put the
probes in the wrong orientation well

21:23.4

21:29.6

inside the probe is an electrode buffer
and the proper installation kind of

21:29.6

21:34.2

ensures that that buffer and the glass
same i per Mille glass membrane on those

21:34.2

21:38.7

probes kind of exchanges at an
acceptable rate with the process

21:38.7

21:44.9

bouncing the probe in correctly will
typically expedite the kind of the

21:44.9

21:50.0

electrolyte buffer getting out of the
probe which will kill the probe as well

21:50.0

21:55.9

yeah my inner nerd and me wanted to see
if I could bring a spent probe back to

21:55.9

22:01.2

life so I had a supersaturated solution
of potassium chloride and I actually was

22:01.2

22:07.0

able to get that probe to work for about
three hours yeah you can do a lot of

22:07.0

22:11.1

restoring the breath that’s that’s a
really good point is proper probe care I

22:11.1

22:15.7

mean I know you’ve mentioned caring for
your Myron L and that’s just a probe

22:15.7

22:20.0

where you kind of take samples
periodically and then you put it back in

22:20.0

22:24.0

its nice buffer solution and it gets
with no flow going across it for quite

22:24.0

22:29.2

some time so the demand on a probe in
that application let’s factor out the

22:29.2

22:32.6

fact that it sits in a hundred degree
car for a couple hours out of the day

22:32.6

22:38.6

but the fact that it’s not subjected to
flow 24/7 helps it hello so think about

22:38.6

22:44.5

this probe it’s in the process actively
reading almost 24/7 things get on it

22:44.5

22:49.1

oils cover the probe as I mentioned that
that buffer kind of depletes over time

22:49.1

22:52.2

there’s a lot of things you can do to
bring them back to life to your point

22:52.2

22:56.0

trace you can you know rinse it off with
some Dawn dish soap to help get any kind

22:56.0

23:00.1

of oils that might be coating that a
glass membrane that can help you can

23:00.1

23:04.9

also kind of hit it with some some acids
to try and restore or even put it back

23:04.9

23:09.4

in that reference buffer that comes in
to try and restore it as well

23:09.4

23:12.7

so yeah there are things you can do to
bring it back to life a little bit but

23:12.7

23:17.9

there’s a point of diminishing return
exactly and someone told me that because

23:17.9

23:22.9

it’s a semipermeable membrane and you
got that reference material in there as

23:22.9

23:29.2

soon as it gets made it starts to
diminish its accuracy so in the Box it

23:29.2

23:33.3

has an expiration date and then you know
it’s just you put it in the system and

23:33.3

23:38.2

eventually it is going to fail and I
think a lot of people don’t realize that

23:38.2

23:42.3

they think okay I just spent all this
money for this new controller it came

23:42.3

23:47.0

with pH and ORP and now it’s you know
twelve months later or whatever it is

23:47.0

23:51.7

and now I got to replace this probe why
isn’t this thing working properly and

23:51.7

23:56.1

there might be some things you can do to
extend the life but the normal life it

23:56.1

24:00.8

does have an expiration date and you do
have to replace those how often if

24:00.8

24:07.6

everything is correct should we expect
to replace those probes so manufacturers

24:07.6

24:13.2

of the probes say that sitting on a
shelf in buffer solution the shelf life

24:13.2

24:19.4

is two years I’ve seen someone get away
with using a probe for three or four

24:19.4

24:26.3

years I guess my rebuttal is how precise
do you want to be with probe if you know

24:26.3

24:31.5

1/2 a pH is good enough then the
replacement time can stretch a little

24:31.5

24:35.5

bit if you need it precise within point
to pH

24:35.5

24:39.7

now then your your change frequency
should be higher I’d recommend an annual

24:39.7

24:44.6

switch oh I mean your systems being
turned off I’m I’m guessing most people

24:44.6

24:50.7

aren’t storing their probes correctly so
yeah just just build it in these probes

24:50.7

24:54.4

in particular it’s better to have an
accurate probe than burn through a ton

24:54.4

24:58.3

of chemistry that’s a great point our
probes better today than they were

24:58.3

25:06.3

yesterday yes and no the glass permeable
pH and the same exact probe with a

25:06.3

25:13.3

platinum rod sticking out of it for ORP
is largely unchanged fundamentally the

25:13.3

25:19.4

same exact technology is used I would
say that just kind of electronics have

25:19.4

25:23.2

gotten better the isolation on
electronics the precision of power

25:23.2

25:28.7

supplies and making certain analog to
digital sensing equipment more cost

25:28.7

25:35.0

affordable has has definitely bridge the
gap a little bit but the actual analog

25:35.0

25:41.1

sensing element hasn’t changed in our
industry at least there are other

25:41.1

25:46.0

technologies out there they have
solid-state pH sensing devices but

25:46.0

25:50.1

honestly there are a pretty cost
prohibitive and they have a very narrow

25:50.1

25:53.9

scope of kind of these are the
conditions that probes like that are

25:53.9

25:58.8

happy to operate in and that’s often a
deal breaker in in our real world

25:58.8

26:04.0

applications so probably the most
important

26:04.0

26:07.5

measurement two cents specifically
unlike evaporative coolers or even

26:07.5

26:17.5

boilers is conductivity
you know pH and ORP are selectively used

26:17.5

26:24.1

but controlling connectivity’s is key so
I just emphasize that make sure you’ve

26:24.1

26:29.5

got a good conductivity probe make sure
you’re maintaining correctly I strongly

26:29.5

26:35.3

recommend kind of a toroidal style
conductivity probe lathe for our

26:35.3

26:39.6

audience for our audience if you will
what does that mean what does toroidal

26:39.6

26:42.2

will actually mean what is that probe if
somebody hasn’t seen it

26:42.2

26:48.0

so when you look at the measurement used
for conductivity micro Siemens per

26:48.0

26:52.8

centimeter so that’s how conductive is
something over a centimeter which is a

26:52.8

26:58.3

line one line so when you talk about a
contacting style probe it’s measuring

26:58.3

27:03.4

from one point to the next if I put
voltage X from one probe how much do I

27:03.4

27:07.1

see on the other probe how much current
is going what’s my it’s my drop and you

27:07.1

27:12.8

can infer conductivity from that when I
say toroidal style that’s a probe that’s

27:12.8

27:18.6

taking kind of a volumetric measurement
of the process solution so the way that

27:18.6

27:23.5

the probe works is it kind of emits a
magnetic field in the solution so it’s

27:23.5

27:28.3

got an excitation emitter and then it’s
got an antenna that’s receiving kind of

27:28.3

27:34.3

what the reflective magnetic field is
and things that are more conductive will

27:34.3

27:40.4

magnify the emitted magnetic field more
anyway needless to say the probe itself

27:40.4

27:45.4

is doing a volumetric measure it’s not
measuring from one line to another it’s

27:45.4

27:50.3

taking a broad measurement and it’s
averaging it doing that makes the probe

27:50.3

27:56.1

way way more accurate and far more
resistant to fouling you talk about

27:56.1

28:01.3

scale buildup on this probe you talk
about things like biofilm things that

28:01.3

28:05.2

could interfere with your measurement
using a toroidal style probe your your

28:05.2

28:11.4

prorating the effects of that fouling
film exponentially to where it’s almost

28:11.4

28:15.7

not affecting the actual raw measurement
at all

28:15.7

28:20.4

is there a major cost difference between
the regular style probe and the toroidal

28:20.4

28:24.6

I mean there is a cost impact race as
with anything that’s better

28:24.6

28:29.7

but like certain product families Pulsafeeder just have that built in as the

28:29.7

28:35.1

standard we manufacture our own probe
it’s our own design that works very very

28:35.1

28:39.5

well in standardizing on it kind of
helps us lower the price point of

28:39.5

28:45.9

getting that better technology built in
an affordable price late anything else

28:45.9

28:51.3

we can expect from sensing equipment
today so one of my hobbies is to keep a

28:51.3

28:58.0

good pulse on advances in sensing
equipment new sensors out there if I’m

28:58.0

29:03.4

gonna put on my forward-thinking hat and
try and guess where sensing technology

29:03.4

29:08.9

is gonna go I think we’re gonna see a
lot more bio film sensors use more

29:08.9

29:14.2

standard obviously biofilm is awful
insulator so it’s something like water

29:14.2

29:19.2

treaters care about and it can kind of
help shield Legionella and any other

29:19.2

29:23.4

kind of bacteria from from biocides from
being effective so expect an uptick in

29:23.4

29:29.5

biofilm sensing equipment I would also
say that we’ve kind of seen the start of

29:29.5

29:36.2

optical sensors getting their foothold
in this in this industry so obviously

29:36.2

29:43.2

PTSA and fluorescein have appeared in
cooling towers and boilers and it’s now

29:43.2

29:48.2

available through a few different probe
manufacturers but you know that’s that’s

29:48.2

29:54.3

a light source exciting a particle and
then kind of analyzing the the

29:54.3

29:58.6

immittance
to gauge what your trace levels are late

29:58.6

30:05.1

I remember it wasn’t very long ago where
those probes those those light emitting

30:05.1

30:10.7

probes were incredibly expensive and it
was very difficult to convince customers

30:10.7

30:15.9

to put out that kind of money to trace
the products that we had in there now

30:15.9

30:21.3

the price is considerably lower and it’s
a lot easier to get those on the

30:21.3

30:24.9

controllers that were recommending
because of that are you guys selling a

30:24.9

30:29.5

lot more of those a Pulsafeeder I mean
people are either

30:29.5

30:34.6

bored with trace or they’re not they’ve
either incorporated incorporated it into

30:34.6

30:40.7

their inhibitor and they they swear by
it or they’re good with molybdate or

30:40.7

30:43.7

somewhat some other kind of trace
technology yeah yeah there’s been a huge

30:43.7

30:48.4

uptick in that a lot of its customer
driven as well I’ve noticed a lot of

30:48.4

30:52.9

data centers like having it it gives
them kind of sense of more control over

30:52.9

30:59.6

the chemistry in their tower but optical
technology is only getting cheaper it’s

30:59.6

31:04.2

one of the more exciting fields it’s
where most of the recent Nobel Prizes

31:04.2

31:10.0

are going to optical discoveries like
the the blue LED being exponentially

31:10.0

31:14.3

more efficient than an kind of
incandescent bulbs that’s just one style

31:14.3

31:19.7

of optical probe we’ve seen take off and
then become more affordable we still

31:19.7

31:25.3

haven’t touched on like interferometers
getting and taking off in in the water

31:25.3

31:30.0

treatment industry and even optical
spectroscopy I think you’ll see that

31:30.0

31:36.1

become more affordable and then instead
of sensing pH ORP things like that you

31:36.1

31:41.2

can actually see how much alkalinity is
there in the system how much of this

31:41.2

31:45.9

exact molecule is there in the system
still cost prohibitive at this point but

31:45.9

31:50.9

I I’d be surprised if we don’t see that
slowly transition into our market in

31:50.9

31:56.9

addition to some some thin film sensors
and on all this other stuff well I think

31:56.9

32:00.1

the thing I appreciate it most was your
comment that needs to be a t-shirt

32:00.1

32:05.8

you’re either on board with trace or
you’re not story of my life definitely

32:05.8

32:10.9

definitely lay the last time we saw each
other was in Cleveland for the AWT

32:10.9

32:13.9

technical training seminars and of
course you and I were over in the

32:13.9

32:20.1

fundamentals an application side and you
taught me that the term cop and cop kit

32:20.1

32:24.5

actually stands for something I never
knew this please let the Scaling UP!

32:24.5

32:30.6

Nation know what that stands for be my
pleasures yeah cop kit stands for keep

32:30.6

32:38.1

on pumping cop kit so yeah that’s just
our name for a wet and rebuild kit for

32:38.1

32:42.7

the positron pump recommend doing them
at least annually maybe once every six

32:42.7

32:47.1

months too
your pump in tip-top performance I have

32:47.1

32:51.5

been rebuilding pumps probably since I
was 13 years old I’ve always called him

32:51.5

32:56.9

cop kids I had no idea that they
actually meant something so there you go

32:56.9

33:04.1

Scaling UP!  Nation now you are advice as
well as I am but yeah while we’re on the

33:04.1

33:08.2

topic of the the fundamentals and
applications training and just I

33:08.2

33:14.9

attended the the fundamentals side of it
in Vegas I actually sat in the class I

33:14.9

33:20.3

learned a wealth of information you guys
cram a lot of information into a very

33:20.3

33:24.5

short amount of time it’s kind of like
as you’ve called it drinking from a

33:24.5

33:28.5

firehose absolutely and of course you’re
referring to I get the privilege of

33:28.5

33:34.5

doing that alongside of Mark Lewis
correct you both tag-team that and and

33:34.5

33:38.7

give the audience far more information
and they have any idea what to do with

33:38.7

33:44.7

but it’s hugely valuable at least it was
for me I guess I’m gonna give you a

33:44.7

33:51.9

minor applaud or actually a major one
for the time and the effort and you

33:51.9

33:57.9

really go out there and you put on a
heck of a show and it’s super rewarding

33:57.9

34:03.0

for those who attend if you haven’t gone
I’d strongly recommend it they have the

34:03.0

34:07.9

the the more entry-level class and then
an advanced course I hope to take the

34:07.9

34:12.8

Advanced Course next year well I think I
thank you for that comment and I also

34:12.8

34:16.7

think it ties in to our conversation
that we had at the top of the episode

34:16.7

34:22.2

where when you’re wanting to learn more
about a topic the easiest way to do is

34:22.2

34:25.4

put yourself out there giving
information so the more you give the

34:25.4

34:29.1

more you get back you’re doing that with
a blog I’m doing that with the podcast

34:29.1

34:33.7

and I’m especially doing that when I’m
training because if I can train

34:33.7

34:38.2

something and I can train when somebody
doesn’t have all the experiences and

34:38.2

34:43.5

references that I do and I can build
that mental image for them as they’re

34:43.5

34:47.8

listening to me I understand that topic
better and I wouldn’t have had that

34:47.8

34:54.1

opportunity had I not done those yeah I
mean I’d encourage anyone who wants to

34:54.1

35:00.4

get more involved to do it I mean
no one here’s trying to make you ask a

35:00.4

35:06.1

dumb question in a crowd and laugh at
you everyone is out there supportive

35:06.1

35:11.6

it’s a super interesting loving
community that the kind of the whole AWT

35:11.6

35:18.6

market has created because you’ve got
competitors that talk to each other like

35:18.6

35:21.9

their colleagues they work
collaboratively together I mean it’s all

35:21.9

35:27.2

towards kind of making the chemistry and
the processes better manage more

35:27.2

35:31.5

efficient and I’d encourage anyone who’s
trying to get out there get more

35:31.5

35:36.4

involved to do so people in the NWT
community are super helpful

35:36.4

35:42.6

they’re super willing to lend a hand and
then kind of mentor you and they want to

35:42.6

35:46.7

see you succeed they want to see you do
well so get up there and the end of the

35:46.7

35:50.8

day you’re gonna benefit from it
absolutely well let’s talk about some of

35:50.8

35:54.9

the other things that you do to put
yourself out there of course you’re not

35:54.9

36:00.3

only a participant in the fundamentals
and applications training you also help

36:00.3

36:03.3

do some of that training would you mind
sharing with the Scaling UP!  Nation what

36:03.3

36:09.7

you’re doing with that yes absolutely so
this past year there was a hands-on

36:09.7

36:15.9

session kind of towards the end of the
training where Pulsafeeder is one of

36:15.9

36:20.4

the privileged vendors to come in bring
some equipment bring some screwdrivers a

36:20.4

36:25.9

little bit of reference literature and
just help show the treaters out there

36:25.9

36:29.6

how to install this equipment how to
take it apart how to correctly install

36:29.6

36:36.9

it and it’s really a great way to to get
a good Q&A session going on I got so

36:36.9

36:42.2

many good questions about you know
correct installation of pumps and and

36:42.2

36:46.4

that’s actually what I covered I covered
pumps and blowdown bounce so we went

36:46.4

36:51.7

over this is how you install a pump
flooded suction versus suction lift what

36:51.7

36:56.1

you have to watch out for in terms of
you know injecting a hundred foot up in

36:56.1

36:58.0

the air
what kind of back pressure does that

36:58.0

37:02.4

build up against the pump making sure
you oversized equipment making sure you

37:02.4

37:06.4

put a check ball if you’re worried about
chemical maybe going backwards there on

37:06.4

37:10.1

directions lots lots of good stuff and
you get this

37:10.1

37:15.3

the components what they look like how
they go together and then take it apart

37:15.3

37:19.7

yourself truth be known you gave me a
lot of credit for how good mark and I

37:19.7

37:24.6

section is I think the best thing that
is done in the fundamentals and

37:24.6

37:30.3

application training is that hands-on
section the fact that all the attendees

37:30.3

37:35.9

get to circulate around through four
different vendors each covering a

37:35.9

37:39.2

different topic they’re taking things
apart they’re putting them together

37:39.2

37:45.0

they’re learning how to troubleshoot
they are saving so much time when they

37:45.0

37:49.3

get back in the field because they have
learned these tips and techniques it’s

37:49.3

37:55.5

absolutely the best thing AWT does in my
opinion yeah I mean I was super honored

37:55.5

38:01.3

to be involved in that as I mentioned I
I just that every session was so

38:01.3

38:03.4

different
if you break everyone up into small

38:03.4

38:09.0

groups and it can really go any way the
the questions that they ask kind of

38:09.0

38:15.2

steer how the hands-on kind of plays out
and we’re really that just there as a

38:15.2

38:20.9

resource to the water treaters so help
them do their their jobs better yeah all

38:20.9

38:24.7

of you guys do a fantastic job and folks
out there in the nation if you’re

38:24.7

38:28.9

listening and you’re going to come think
about some of the issues that you’re

38:28.9

38:34.9

having with equipment that if you knew
some tips and techniques to solve that

38:34.9

38:38.6

it would save you tremendous amount of
time out in the field and this is the

38:38.6

38:44.2

perfect venue for you to ask that and
now that actually helps people like lave

38:44.2

38:48.7

not have to lead the entire conversation
and I think you might want to know about

38:48.7

38:52.0

this and I think you might want to know
about that if you’re letting him know

38:52.0

38:56.0

exactly what you need to know about it’s
a far better interaction wouldn’t you

38:56.0

39:01.4

agree oh absolutely I mean what are we
given it’s 45 minutes something like

39:01.4

39:08.5

that five minutes about pumps but you
know I’d rather talk for you know 10-15

39:08.5

39:13.1

minutes do the high-level overview and
then the rest of it is just interactive

39:13.1

39:18.2

what have you seen what problems have
you encountered how can we help what

39:18.2

39:21.5

could we do differently to avoid certain
problems from happening in the future

39:21.5

39:26.0

what are some best practices here
there and that that’s the beauty of the

39:26.0

39:30.4

small groups and kind of the intimate
community that the AWT creates in that

39:30.4

39:35.3

venue so thanks for for kind of creating
that forum and allowing some of the

39:35.3

39:39.7

vendors to come in with equipment I
think it is providing immense value to

39:39.7

39:46.0

the customers well I’m just one piece of
the moving cog in that wheel so but yeah

39:46.0

39:50.2

you’re absolutely welcome and we improve
that each and every time that we do it

39:50.2

39:52.5

and thanks for all the people that allow
that to happen

39:52.5

39:57.6

you know I want to change gears just a
little bit you know the old guys call me

39:57.6

40:02.9

a young guy and of course I’m older than
you so I can call you a young guy but

40:02.9

40:07.8

there’s a misconception then I want to
talk about and I don’t think I told you

40:07.8

40:11.7

we were going to talk about this so
we’ll see how this goes but when the

40:11.7

40:17.8

older generation is dealing with people
in your generation there’s the tendency

40:17.8

40:22.4

that okay well the young guys just don’t
get it there they don’t want it as much

40:22.4

40:28.6

as I did when I was their age and I see
people like you that are blogging that

40:28.6

40:33.6

or volunteering that are putting
yourself out there to learn all that you

40:33.6

40:39.3

can as quickly as you can and also find
some mentors out there to help you along

40:39.3

40:46.2

the way so my question is what advice do
you have for both sides of that fence so

40:46.2

40:53.1

I guess for younger up-and-coming water
treaters who want to kind of make waves

40:53.1

40:58.7

and really take take the industry by the
horns is yeah challenge things

40:58.7

41:04.0

respectfully but challenge the status
quo you know if your mentor and water

41:04.0

41:08.2

treatment has been doing the same thing
for 30 years like trust me what they’re

41:08.2

41:12.7

doing works and you should definitely
listen to that but with newer

41:12.7

41:15.7

technologies and maybe some new
chemistry out there if you’ve done your

41:15.7

41:19.9

research definitely try and incorporate
some of these process improvements

41:19.9

41:23.6

because without them you know you miss
out on potential advancements in the

41:23.6

41:30.7

industry so so definitely challenge
status quos the older people yeah I mean

41:30.7

41:34.9

us Millennials are going to make
mistakes give us a little bit Alicia to

41:34.9

41:37.5

make those mistakes so that we can learn
from them

41:37.5

41:42.7

right it’s one thing to tell someone do
this do that it’s another thing for them

41:42.7

41:45.7

to go through it and learn that
knowledge firsthand those are the

41:45.7

41:51.0

lessons that stick so so be patient with
art with our kind of constant nagging

41:51.0

41:56.0

and and really really fast pace I want
results now type type mentality and then

41:56.0

42:01.3

yeah when it comes to mentors and kind
of how to get out there is participate

42:01.3

42:05.8

you know get involved in a community I’m
a member of the AWT on professionals

42:05.8

42:11.3

organization Michele farmer he does a
great job kind of running the the seed

42:11.3

42:17.5

subcommittee within that as well as the
whole organization lean on the AWT

42:17.5

42:20.3

community
you mentioned mentors I mean my main

42:20.3

42:25.9

mentors probably my father huge
influential role model but you know he

42:25.9

42:28.9

doesn’t know anything about water
treatment that’s his his backgrounds in

42:28.9

42:33.5

IT and things like that so I’ve been
fortunate enough to reach out to you

42:33.5

42:37.9

trace a couple other prominent figures
in the AWT community and they’ve been

42:37.9

42:44.3

super friendly super willing to help so
lean on those people and then yeah your

42:44.3

42:48.1

organization’s gonna have tons of
resources at your disposal they’re gonna

42:48.1

42:52.2

they’re gonna want you to learn they
want gonna want to invest in you so take

42:52.2

42:57.0

advantage of that they let me ask you
because I’m sure when you’re picking up

42:57.0

43:01.4

the phone and you’re calling somebody
you probably don’t know very well or you

43:01.4

43:05.5

know of and you want them to help you
with an issue that you’re having maybe

43:05.5

43:11.3

ultimately be a mentor what advice do
you have to pick up that hundred pound

43:11.3

43:16.9

phone and actually make that phone call
well I mean I’ve kind of had to get used

43:16.9

43:21.4

to picking up the phone and making calls
that may or may not be answer that’s

43:21.4

43:26.0

that’s kind of the wheelhouse that I’m
in right now but tell me what are you

43:26.0

43:29.8

got to lose if you don’t make the phone
call you definitely don’t get the answer

43:29.8

43:34.3

if you pick up the phone call and try
you can at least save you’ve cried if

43:34.3

43:39.3

you don’t get the answer you want yeah
move on I mean there’s no change if you

43:39.3

43:43.6

get a no you you are where you are
you’ve lost nothing so so roll the dice

43:43.6

43:49.6

don’t worry about your ego just try and
get that that needle moving great answer

43:49.6

43:54.5

like what’s the one thing you want the
Scaling UP!  Nation to know from this

43:54.5

43:59.3

interview oh I guess there’s no
shortcuts to water treatment there’s

43:59.3

44:04.6

there’s no one answer to any question
hopefully out of this interview you’ve

44:04.6

44:09.0

gotten something that’ll one trick one
tip that might help you make a pH probe

44:09.0

44:12.7

lasts a little longer avoid an
installation issue but just know that

44:12.7

44:17.6

there’s there’s resources available if
you ever have technical questions it’s

44:17.6

44:22.3

all a symbiotic relationship you use the
vendors around you to support you you

44:22.3

44:26.7

should peers around you just support you
know that this is a big community and

44:26.7

44:32.5

that we’re all kind of hoping to to
perfect these processes consume less

44:32.5

44:39.8

water prolonged chiller lifespan I mean
it’s all one big system and yeah take

44:39.8

44:44.8

advantage of it I love it I will say
that water treatment I think is the

44:44.8

44:49.6

original green industry we were saving
water before anybody thought about

44:49.6

44:56.4

saving water but I’ll also say that
having your generation move into it has

44:56.4

45:02.0

really embraced the fact that we have
such a huge impact in order to save

45:02.0

45:05.9

water in the amount of water that we
could save I think we’re moving faster

45:05.9

45:09.1

as an industry because we do have
Millennial’s in the water treatment

45:09.1

45:13.9

community yeah millennial is a pretty
short attention span results-driven

45:13.9

45:17.3

people so they’re definitely gonna try
and shake up the water treatment

45:17.3

45:22.8

industry a little bit and I’m kind of
excited to see how that all plays out

45:22.8

45:26.6

and what water treatment looks you know
five ten years from now

45:26.6

45:30.4

you know it’s funny you say that because
I get more comments that my podcasts are

45:30.4

45:34.1

too long can i shorten them and I say
just listen to them in other segments

45:34.1

45:38.6

but I guess that’s why I get that
comment yeah people say that they won’t

45:38.6

45:42.7

get out of their cars to go service an
account or to go into their house at the

45:42.7

45:45.1

end of the night because they want to
see how it ends I guess that’s a good

45:45.1

45:49.6

thing but folks you could hit pause and
you can play it later you have that

45:49.6

45:55.2

ability I do have one of your episodes
on pause now just just as an FYI oh do

45:55.2

46:00.1

you alright well that’s okay so you
you’ve learned how to use your phone app

46:00.1

46:05.6

properly so you out there in the scam
you can learn from late and you can hit

46:05.6

46:10.9

pause too so this has been a lot of fun
I’ve got a couple of lightning round

46:10.9

46:15.0

questions for you so I’m not quite done
with you yet if you got a couple more

46:15.0

46:20.0

moments to spend with me let’s do it
alright so you know i’ma Back to the

46:20.0

46:25.2

Future fan you know I have a DeLorean
here in my office it is equipped with a

46:25.2

46:28.5

flux capacitor we’re gonna get in it
together we’re gonna set the time

46:28.5

46:33.9

circuits back to the first day of you
and the water treatment industry what

46:33.9

46:38.8

advice do you give yourself don’t think
your DeLorean needed much power to get

46:38.8

46:43.6

back you know to a whopping four years
ago but um yeah I mean I don’t have an

46:43.6

46:48.3

incredible amount of perspective because
I haven’t been in the biz for a crazy

46:48.3

46:53.2

long amount of time but um yeah
definitely I’ll reinforce the fact that

46:53.2

46:57.9

don’t be afraid of failure and to put
yourself out there getting involved in a

46:57.9

47:02.8

subcommittee is probably one of the best
things you can do you you gets a to know

47:02.8

47:06.2

such certain people in the industry
you start talking collaboratively about

47:06.2

47:10.4

solving a problem in the industry and
yeah it’s definitely gonna help your

47:10.4

47:14.6

personal development and just get you
out there networking what’s the last

47:14.6

47:20.0

book you’ve read the last books I read
I’ve got a name the seven Habits of

47:20.0

47:23.8

Highly Effective People I think you’ve
heard of that book come up I’m not sure

47:23.8

47:27.8

I am familiar with that book I’m curious
did you read that because of this show

47:27.8

47:35.0

yes yes that was one of your most highly
recommended books to read I am honored

47:35.0

47:40.8

that is that is awesome I think it’s so
cool that that you read that because of

47:40.8

47:44.1

this show I’ve heard other people have
done that as well so you just made my

47:44.1

47:50.0

day what are some of the other books so
I nerd it out and listen to astrophysics

47:50.0

47:55.5

for people in a hurry by Neil deGrasse
Tyson and I’ve almost finished but not

47:55.5

48:00.6

quite yet but I’m going to give myself
the credit cat’s cradle by Kurt Warner

48:00.6

48:02.5

Vonnegut
hopefully I’m pronouncing that correctly

48:02.5

48:06.5

that’s that’s the interesting read so
let me ask with seven Habits of Highly

48:06.5

48:10.7

Effective People would you recommend
that book after reading it yeah it’s

48:10.7

48:13.8

it’s interesting I don’t know what
actually on the book was released but

48:13.8

48:18.5

it’s interesting how well it has stood
the test of time I mean the examples

48:18.5

48:23.3

used in the book are very very relatable
he’s definitely gone out of his way to

48:23.3

48:27.5

find some real life situations that can
resonate with the reader and just adds

48:27.5

48:31.5

perspective and if you’re not adding
perspective to your life then you’re

48:31.5

48:36.5

gonna get caught in the loop so
definitely definitely awesome I love it

48:36.5

48:41.5

so obviously in a couple of years
Hollywood is gonna make a movie about

48:41.5

48:48.5

your life who plays late
I chose Christoph Waltz he’s not an

48:48.5

48:53.7

extremely well known name using some
Tarantino movies but he’s a character I

48:53.7

48:58.9

loved him as an actor I would be honored
if he would play the role of lace

48:58.9

49:03.1

Charles in my future inevitable movie
there you go and you know it’s gonna

49:03.1

49:09.1

happen it’s just a matter of time so my
final question is you now have the

49:09.1

49:14.9

ability to talk to anybody throughout
history who to be with and why well I

49:14.9

49:18.4

struggled with this one because I want
to name more than one person if I’m

49:18.4

49:23.7

gonna be absolute it’s probably Michael
Faraday I’m just being an electrical

49:23.7

49:28.5

engineer there’s so many like innovative
scholars through over the course of time

49:28.5

49:33.5

Alan Turing’s another one Maxwell Tesla
I mean there’s so many great people that

49:33.5

49:37.7

I’d love to meet pick their brain but if
you’re narrowing me to one Michael

49:37.7

49:43.8

Faraday all right he had a great cage I
hear all right lay thanks so much for

49:43.8

49:49.5

coming on the show thanks for everything
that you’re doing to raise the water

49:49.5

49:53.7

treatment community and thanks for being
the seven Habits I just think that’s

49:53.7

49:58.3

awesome no thanks thanks for
recommending it pleasure coming on today

49:58.3

50:04.7

trace hopefully the listeners liked it
and if anyone has ideas for things that

50:04.7

50:09.7

they want to be written about on my blog
don’t don’t hesitate to reach out it’s

50:09.7

50:14.7

really a resource for you guys and away
from you to enhance myself so challenge

50:14.7

50:22.0

away and real quick what is the website
again in full policy calm like enthalpy

50:22.0

50:27.1

and then the study of mash them together
well nation you’ve gotta love that a

50:27.1

50:32.7

guest comes on the show and calls
me out for being wrong well it has

50:32.7

50:37.3

happened before I have been wrong and
you know we’re never perfect and

50:37.3

50:41.4

anything that we do we’re definitely not
perfect in water treatment but we

50:41.4

50:46.6

learned from our mistakes and folks I
gotta tell you even when I listen to the

50:46.6

50:53.3

edited copy of episode 46 I knew what I
was thinking even though I didn’t say

50:53.3

50:59.2

those words and I misspoke so of course
I’m talking about the phosphate episode

50:59.2

51:04.2

that I did episode 46 if you all must
show notes page I clarify all that so

51:04.2

51:09.5

immediately when it was brought to my
attention I went and I think what I did

51:09.5

51:15.8

I was thinking RSI and psi those are the
two ones that I use most frequently RSI

51:15.8

51:22.0

there is nurse stability index and I
somehow said LSI which is a totally

51:22.0

51:29.8

different scale RSI and Elysee I did it
again RSI and PSI are the same scale 0

51:29.8

51:36.5

to 12 and then LSI is negative 3 to
positive 3 so if you have any questions

51:36.5

51:38.8

about that
you got two options you got a couple

51:38.8

51:43.5

options actually you can listen to
episode 46 again and know that I miss B

51:43.5

51:48.7

can go to my show notes page on that or
you can go to episode 24 that was my

51:48.7

51:55.4

first questions only show that I did
last year and I actually answered a

51:55.4

52:00.6

listeners question about what LSI RSI
and psi actually is how they’re

52:00.6

52:04.6

different how they’re the same so
there’s an entire episode on that where

52:04.6

52:09.9

I answer that question so sorry for the
confusion but I got to tell you it was

52:09.9

52:14.8

pretty cool when that released I
received on the first day two phone

52:14.8

52:19.3

calls maybe four texts and then the next
day I started getting all these emails

52:19.3

52:24.7

so you guys are listening to what is
going out on the Internet air waves

52:24.7

52:29.8

through the Scaling UP!  Nation so I
appreciate that so something I hope the

52:29.8

52:36.8

entire nation got from what Laith was
telling us is that he forced himself to

52:36.8

52:42.3

do things to make himself better at what
he wanted to get better

52:42.3

52:48.0

now he started a blog to start getting
information to anybody who wanted to

52:48.0

52:54.7

read it on things he wanted to know more
about late does a blog I do a podcast

52:54.7

53:01.5

but the reason is the exact same I want
to know everything I can about the water

53:01.5

53:06.4

treatment industry I do that by reading
everything I can get my hands on if I

53:06.4

53:10.4

can talk to an expert in a particular
field in water treatment you better

53:10.4

53:14.5

believe I am going to do that
I have mentors that you guys have met on

53:14.5

53:18.5

the Scaling UP! program that I am
constantly asking more and more

53:18.5

53:24.1

information from them my dad got sick of
how much more information that I needed

53:24.1

53:28.8

I needed it
I always need more information so that

53:28.8

53:33.8

is something that I struggle with on a
regular basis but it has made me better

53:33.8

53:39.2

because I have always tried to figure
out how to go to the next step I realize

53:39.2

53:42.3

when I coach people when I talk to
people especially in the water treatment

53:42.3

53:47.9

industry that they have an issue with
they don’t know what the next step needs

53:47.9

53:52.3

to be so I’m gonna make it very simple
and it comes from the seven Habits of

53:52.3

53:57.5

Highly Effective People the seven Habits
of Highly Effective People teaches us a

53:57.5

54:02.3

technique called third person teaching
and what that is when you learn

54:02.3

54:06.1

something and all you do is learn it and
you don’t have to teach it to anybody

54:06.1

54:10.4

else so you’re not responsible for that
information your brain doesn’t process

54:10.4

54:17.0

it as much as it does if you know that
you are responsible for that information

54:17.0

54:22.5

because you now have to teach that to
somebody else you’re going to listen

54:22.5

54:26.7

better you’re gonna take notes better
you’re gonna ask questions better you’re

54:26.7

54:33.2

gonna process the whole transaction
better to make sure that you know how to

54:33.2

54:38.3

properly teach somebody else the
material that you are learning so I’m

54:38.3

54:42.8

going to suggest that that is the key
when you go to learn something new think

54:42.8

54:47.5

about who you can teach it to but don’t
just think about it make the commitment

54:47.5

54:53.0

that you are going to go to somebody and
say hey I know you’re curious about this

54:53.0

54:57.6

I’m going to a seminar
this and I’m gonna come back and I’m

54:57.6

55:02.0

gonna teach you everything that I
learned when you now go to that seminar

55:02.0

55:06.5

you’re gonna be in a totally different
mindset because you’re gonna be thinking

55:06.5

55:11.0

about how you’re going to convey that
message properly you’re also going to be

55:11.0

55:15.5

thinking about all the questions that
that person is going to ask you that you

55:15.5

55:21.5

are now going to have to answer not just
the questions that you have I promise if

55:21.5

55:28.0

you start doing this it is a game
changer whenever you learn new

55:28.0

55:33.8

information now that being said maybe
it’s not an auditorium of 200 people

55:33.8

55:38.0

maybe it’s a customer maybe you asked
your customer what’s something that I

55:38.0

55:42.9

can help you with and if they know
something that you know or if they want

55:42.9

55:46.3

you to talk about something that you
know you can do that right there but

55:46.3

55:51.7

what if they ask you something that you
don’t know anything about you now have

55:51.7

55:55.6

the opportunity to go learn it and bring
that back to them I’ll tell you I can’t

55:55.6

56:01.7

tell you how many things I have taught
to my wife Stacy for the benefit of this

56:01.7

56:06.9

Stacy could you take your CWT no I’m not
sure I pretty much thinks that that the

56:06.9

56:12.5

answer is no I hope it’s no because I
know that that’s a very difficult exam

56:12.5

56:16.2

she’s a really good test taker though
but you have to know the industry not

56:16.2

56:19.9

just know how to take the test anyway I
don’t know where I got off on that rant

56:19.9

56:25.6

but my suggestion for you is anytime you
learn something change your perspective

56:25.6

56:31.5

from student to teacher something else
that layth mentioned was knowing your

56:31.5

56:35.0

equipment and he was talking about all
the new things that were coming out and

56:35.0

56:39.3

what some common mistakes were and what
some common tips you needed to know

56:39.3

56:46.7

based on what he saw working with people
like us how well do you know the

56:46.7

56:50.6

equipment that you work with now here at
Blackmore enterprises we work pretty

56:50.6

56:55.3

pretty closely with two different
equipment manufacturers we don’t go too

56:55.3

56:59.6

far out of that we do have some other
things on accounts we’ve taken over but

56:59.6

57:04.0

it’s just easier to work with a few
instead of a lot because then you don’t

57:04.0

57:07.7

have to stock a lot of parts and
everybody becomes very familiar with how

57:07.7

57:09.9

things
work so I don’t know if that’s how you

57:09.9

57:14.6

do things that’s how we do things it
seems to work for us but what we also do

57:14.6

57:21.7

is we try to figure out how much stuff
can we actually know about what we are

57:21.7

57:27.0

using and how do we know when we don’t
know something else that’s a weird way

57:27.0

57:31.2

to say that but we’re constantly
challenging ourselves to learn about

57:31.2

57:36.6

what the controller does to learn about
what the pumps do and how we can do

57:36.6

57:42.9

those better so try to do that on your
own try to do that with your company and

57:42.9

57:48.8

I think you will be amazed at how much
you will learn that that piece of

57:48.8

57:54.9

equipment can do that you might not even
realize that it could do also another

57:54.9

57:59.7

thing that I would advise you to do is
to make sure you have a great

57:59.7

58:04.7

relationship with your equipment
provider because they know things that

58:04.7

58:10.6

can help you be a better water treater
when you know the top five things that

58:10.6

58:15.1

you need to be prepared for on every
installation how more efficient are you

58:15.1

58:19.8

going to be at that next installation so
if you haven’t reached out to your local

58:19.8

58:24.9

representative I urge you to do that
whatever equipment company it is and ask

58:24.9

58:31.0

them what should you be doing what
should you prepare for in order to be

58:31.0

58:36.4

better and more efficient well folks I
sure am glad that you are listening to

58:36.4

58:40.5

the Scaling UP! H2O podcast I sure enjoy
bringing it to you and I will talk with

58:40.5

58:47.1

you next time on Scaling UP!

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