The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.0
0:13.3
welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
for water treaters by water treaters where
0:13.3
0:16.9
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems
0:16.9
0:21.7
hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore
here your host for Scaling UP! h2o and
0:21.7
0:26.9
folks I am so excited because we are
bringing back last week’s guest of
0:26.9
0:31.5
course last week we learned all about
the history and the functionality of
0:31.5
0:35.6
filming amines well today we’re going to
be talking about how to actually use
0:35.6
0:41.0
those filmin amines in the systems that
we encounter each and every day of
0:41.0
0:47.4
course my returning guest is Marodi
Cribari, Marodi how are you and well
0:47.4
0:50.8
thank you how are you I’m doing
wonderful thank you so much for spending
0:50.8
0:54.9
some more time with us I know the
Scaling UP! nation has a lot of questions
0:54.9
0:58.4
around filming amines
I mentioned the presentation that I did
0:58.4
1:04.6
for a WT in 2018 and there were just so
many people that came up to me after I
1:04.6
1:09.0
did my presentation that had questions I
think we did a good job at answering a
1:09.0
1:13.5
lot of those last week but now we’re
going to get into the specifics of each
1:13.5
1:19.3
and every system are you ready
Randy all right so we are going to use
1:19.3
1:24.0
filming amines and boilers cooling
towers and closed loops and last week
1:24.0
1:28.0
you talked a little bit about how
different formulations work better in
1:28.0
1:34.1
those individual systems with that being
said let’s start with the boiler now I
1:34.1
1:39.6
have a boiler that’s on a phosphate
program and I decide that I want to
1:39.6
1:45.2
change that over to a filming amine
program what do I need to know and what
1:45.2
1:51.4
do I need to do so my answer is gonna go
in two different directions if we are in
1:51.4
1:57.5
a low-pressure non-critical environment
so as a CNI for in a hospital or for in
1:57.5
2:01.7
an office building or a school or I
don’t know pick a low-pressure
2:01.7
2:06.4
environment then my answer is actually
just turned the conventional chemistry
2:06.4
2:10.3
off and turn your filming technology on
there’s a million different types of
2:10.3
2:13.5
chemistry out there there’s so many
different formulations everybody’s
2:13.5
2:19.4
gotten its options for all intents and
purposes filming means don’t usually
2:19.4
2:23.0
have a
negative interaction with other types of
2:23.0
2:28.5
boiler chemistry’s however I don’t wanna
say it’s not possible and so easiest
2:28.5
2:32.9
answer both in practical application and
economically is turning it off so let’s
2:32.9
2:36.7
turn the other on and let’s get the
system turned over the flip side of that
2:36.7
2:42.0
is high pressure high temperature
critical operating environments right
2:42.0
2:49.2
and in that regard I would actually
refer everyone to a document called tech
2:49.2
2:54.1
its technical guidance document 8 put
out by the International Association of
2:54.1
2:57.9
properties of water and steam it’s free
and available online they have all sorts
2:57.9
3:01.6
of different technical guidance
documents but it is I mean it’s truly an
3:01.6
3:07.2
international collaborative by the top
professionals within an industry on how
3:07.2
3:11.8
to apply different types of application
so there’s one specifically on filming
3:11.8
3:17.1
amines so it walks you through the
process you will learn a lot about
3:17.1
3:21.0
filming means a nomenclature probably
you know more in depth of what we
3:21.0
3:25.9
basically works through last week but
then also it talks you through a bunch
3:25.9
3:30.7
of different type of applications
whether it’s biomass plants or nuclear
3:30.7
3:32.9
facilities or you know pick your
favorite high temperature high pressure
3:32.9
3:37.7
environment and it will talk you through
the ins and outs of turning one chemical
3:37.7
3:42.8
program off and bringing another
chemical program on in our experience I
3:42.8
3:47.1
truly believe that turning one off and
turning the other on is is in your best
3:47.1
3:52.7
interest especially for the majority of
the AWT marketplace but if you want more
3:52.7
3:56.9
details and just to be able to think a
little more critically I would refer you
3:56.9
4:00.8
to that document because I think it will
be an asset to you in your understanding
4:00.8
4:06.5
an application so when I’m disconnecting
the product so I’ve got my phosphate
4:06.5
4:10.1
I’ve got my steam line treatment I’ve
got my alkalinity builder my sludge
4:10.1
4:13.4
conditioner and my sulfide I’m just
connecting all of those and I’m
4:13.4
4:16.1
replacing them with filming amines is
that what you’re saying
4:16.1
4:21.0
we’re filming a main product yes so one
thing we didn’t talk about last week
4:21.0
4:27.2
when we discussed nomenclature was in
referring to them a filming amine is a
4:27.2
4:32.3
molecule itself right so film forming in
me we also just have to film formers so
4:32.3
4:34.7
sometimes you’ll hear products refer to
guys
4:34.7
4:38.1
a film forming technology but that
doesn’t necessarily make it a mean and
4:38.1
4:43.0
then the last part of that nomenclature
is a film forming a mean product and
4:43.0
4:46.3
basically what that means is it’s a
complete product
4:46.3
4:51.4
it’s got filming a means in it as some
of the proper material but then there’s
4:51.4
4:55.8
also other materials in there whether
that’s an alkalizing amine or an
4:55.8
5:03.5
application-specific compound okay and
so in the world of boilers our cocktails
5:03.5
5:11.0
are generally derived of filming amines
and alkalizing means of some combo you
5:11.0
5:14.5
know pick your favorite film or pick
your favorite appetizers so it’s nice
5:14.5
5:20.3
about a film for me and main product it
was a designed for boiler application is
5:20.3
5:27.3
that a means already inherently our
higher ph molecules so while the filming
5:27.3
5:34.8
amines impact over pH is not as great as
an alkalizing amines impact over pH
5:34.8
5:42.2
they’re both inherently going to buffer
to a higher pH so that takes care of the
5:42.2
5:46.0
filming it means not only take care of
your corrosion inhibitor but and then
5:46.0
5:50.3
the alkalis amines are exactly what you
know they say they’re going to do
5:50.3
5:53.9
they’re gonna not only neutralize pH but
then continue to drive the page up so
5:53.9
5:57.9
you’re gonna consume carbonic acid and
just drive your pH in the system up and
5:57.9
6:05.0
then they’re really yes you know the
only thing we’re not really mitigating
6:05.0
6:09.9
at that issue is oxygen scavenger but
the thing is remember what we talked
6:09.9
6:16.6
about last week when you form those
films and noting that in solution can
6:16.6
6:21.4
come in contact with the metal we’re not
worried about specifically oxygen
6:21.4
6:29.0
causing an oxygen pitting type problem
so in the simplest way of explaining it
6:29.0
6:35.6
you’re you’re truly you’re just you’re
solving those the problems that you
6:35.6
6:41.5
would originally be mitigating with for
different products with one product and
6:41.5
6:45.2
it just happens to perform in a
different way does that make sense I
6:45.2
6:48.4
think that makes complete sense now
let’s say you
6:48.4
6:55.2
I have the client supplier relationship
and I’m now going to change my boiler
6:55.2
7:01.2
over to a filming amine product what
information do you need from me to make
7:01.2
7:04.4
sure that you match the right product
for my need
7:04.4
7:09.2
sure so first and foremost I’m going to
ask you what pressure you’re running at
7:09.2
7:13.5
second I’m going to ask you what type of
facility you’re in so if you’re in a
7:13.5
7:17.8
facility that is FDA sensitive then
that’s going to pick a specific product
7:17.8
7:22.6
if you’re in a high-pressure power plant
I’m going to gravitate to high-pressure
7:22.6
7:27.8
options if you’re in a non FDA
low-pressure environment I’m in a direct
7:27.8
7:33.2
as towards low pressure options
so that’s thing I mean really choosing a
7:33.2
7:38.6
cocktail if you will choosing a product
is really based on this system more than
7:38.6
7:44.3
anything else the needs of that facility
is it fair to say that most maybe AWT
7:44.3
7:49.3
members are treating a specific type of
boiler and within that specific type of
7:49.3
7:53.9
boiler the specific type of conditions
that we can get away with using the same
7:53.9
8:01.9
product over multiple boilers yeah in my
experience with our AWT teams it’s it’s
8:01.9
8:06.7
generally lower pressure you have some
pressure teams but generally lower
8:06.7
8:11.4
pressure and it’s picking one of two are
you a low pressure environment where
8:11.4
8:18.2
it’s a hospital we need to conform to
the CFR or are you a non CFR compliant
8:18.2
8:22.5
facility and so it’s it’s really usually
one or the other all right so now we’ve
8:22.5
8:26.7
got the right product there we’ve
decided that we’re gonna go ahead and
8:26.7
8:31.8
just disable take away all of our formal
chemistry and now we’re gonna replace
8:31.8
8:38.0
that with our new film forming amine
product what do I need to expect and now
8:38.0
8:42.2
maybe we talked about three different
case scenarios so now I have a boiler
8:42.2
8:45.5
that’s fine I just want to change the
product or maybe I’m trying to clean up
8:45.5
8:50.1
something like scale or corrosion what
do I need to look for with those sure so
8:50.1
8:54.7
first thing I tell people to do is
system inventory make sure you know what
8:54.7
8:59.4
you’re getting yourself into do you have
a really old boiler and we’re going into
8:59.4
9:03.7
the problem right if so what’s your
problem are you having issues so
9:03.7
9:07.9
understanding if we’re trying to solve a
problem if it’s just that you’ve been
9:07.9
9:10.6
working with filming it means you know
you like them and you think that this
9:10.6
9:14.2
would be a suitable facility for
application of film for me I mean
9:14.2
9:18.4
product and there’s really no issues
we’re just switching it over then okay
9:18.4
9:22.9
that’s fine
I like to refer to identifying our
9:22.9
9:28.6
objectives as key performance indicators
what are our markers for success going
9:28.6
9:32.8
to be if it’s that we’re solving a
problem if we have iron issues then
9:32.8
9:37.0
eliminating an issue that’s a
performance indicator if we’re having
9:37.0
9:40.8
page management issues that’s a
performance indicator water loss and
9:40.8
9:44.3
then go through any of the different
scenarios that you could and identify
9:44.3
9:48.3
what your objectives are for your
chemical change right why are we doing
9:48.3
9:54.5
this and what do we expect and want and
or need to see so and then really go in
9:54.5
10:00.0
and do a systems inventory what’s the
state of this boiler am I is it it’s
10:00.0
10:03.5
something that I’ve been caring for for
a period of time and I’m familiar with
10:03.5
10:08.5
and so I know what my challenges are and
what to expect is a system that I’m
10:08.5
10:14.3
inheriting and maybe it’s been really
well cared for maybe it hasn’t but what
10:14.3
10:20.8
roadblocks could i potentially be up
against and I say that because with any
10:20.8
10:27.2
chemical regime change there’s going to
potentially be upsets right maybe there
10:27.2
10:31.0
will be maybe there won’t be but knowing
what you’re getting into ahead of time
10:31.0
10:36.1
helps you 1 communicate with your
customer your end user so that they know
10:36.1
10:40.7
what to expect at all of this ultimately
you’re doing a service to them right if
10:40.7
10:45.6
there is an issue let’s say it’s a scale
issue right let’s say you have a really
10:45.6
10:51.9
scaled situation there’s a boiler that
has inherently struggled with a softener
10:51.9
10:58.3
upsets in overtime you just have a
calcium scale buildup okay well we can
10:58.3
11:02.9
go in and we can constructively work to
clean that out but we all know with
11:02.9
11:07.0
scale deposition like that there’s
potential for under deposit corrosion
11:07.0
11:11.3
right it’s not necessarily Dada it’s
there to what degree it’s there but it’s
11:11.3
11:15.5
possible that it’s going
to be there how Bad’s it gonna be nobody
11:15.5
11:20.4
knows until we clean it off right but
you have an end user and they’re asking
11:20.4
11:24.7
you for heat transfer reasons to get
this cleaned up and cleaned out okay so
11:24.7
11:28.9
that’s fine but what do you need to be
prepared for well with under deposit
11:28.9
11:33.4
corrosion depending on how bad the
corrosion is we could potentially see
11:33.4
11:38.1
pinholes if you had active corrosion
cells in there and you go in and you
11:38.1
11:43.6
clean them out and corrosion transcends
a pipe then you could potentially see a
11:43.6
11:48.3
leak like if this is and again it’s not
this is not unique to filming technology
11:48.3
11:52.9
it’s just a reality of the situation so
knowing what you’re going into as you’re
11:52.9
11:57.6
taking something over as you’re cleaning
a system out is vital in my opinion so
11:57.6
12:01.1
those are the kinds of things I’d pay
attention to what’s your water quality I
12:01.1
12:05.5
mean do you have softeners do your
software’s function are you on ro you
12:05.5
12:09.7
know or are you in a are you in a state
are you in a location where you really
12:09.7
12:13.5
don’t struggle with calcium hardness
issues so there’s not that treatment
12:13.5
12:18.3
there but just knowing the facility
knowing water usage how much water are
12:18.3
12:22.6
they using is their meter is their
makeup meter available to you those are
12:22.6
12:28.3
all types of questions that I ask going
into it so that we can constructively
12:28.3
12:34.1
move forward with a plan and have
markers for success as we move through
12:34.1
12:39.2
the process Marodi is there a specific
limit if you don’t have a water softener
12:39.2
12:44.1
how much calcium our total hardness you
want to hold in the system obviously I
12:44.1
12:49.3
don’t have an answer for that one and
it’s it’s a crummy answer I get that but
12:49.3
12:54.6
here’s where it comes from
truly we work coast to coast north to
12:54.6
13:02.1
south and in some scenarios we have
people with relatively I say relatively
13:02.1
13:07.7
hard moderate I guess we could say
moderate hardness where soccers maybe go
13:07.7
13:13.0
in and out of working and they apply
filming amines and we haven’t seen any
13:13.0
13:19.1
issues where there hasn’t been any
redeposition or our growing deposition
13:19.1
13:24.0
of scale there’s been facilities where
we’ve had a softener go and we ended up
13:24.0
13:26.6
seeing
a deposition of calcium carbonate scale
13:26.6
13:31.1
the the truth of the matter is
especially in the world of boilers my
13:31.1
13:36.5
preference is always going to be that
there be pretreatment and I say that not
13:36.5
13:41.0
just as a plug for all my softener
people and all our help people out there
13:41.0
13:47.9
but because calcium carbonates have got
inverse thermal relationship regarding
13:47.9
13:55.8
solubility right and so pre treating a
system is just minimizing risk long term
13:55.8
14:02.0
what we do know with Filomena means what
what I’ve seen time and time again is
14:02.0
14:05.8
that with the application of Filomena
means whether you’re in a boiler or
14:05.8
14:10.3
whether you’re in a cooling tower or
even in a closed circuit type
14:10.3
14:17.9
environment is that what the application
of filming means if we see deposition on
14:17.9
14:24.0
calcium or other types of deposition you
can see deposit in like low-flow areas
14:24.0
14:31.1
but it deposits in in a non-adherent
form like there is a modification of the
14:31.1
14:38.3
scaling ions and they they may lay down
just because of a flow delay or slowing
14:38.3
14:43.1
whatever you want to call it change but
they don’t stick and when I say they
14:43.1
14:47.4
don’t stick I truly mean and when I’ve
seen them I can wipe them off and with
14:47.4
14:51.7
my hand sometimes they’re really soft
and fluffy sometimes they are a little
14:51.7
14:56.4
bit harder but the scale doesn’t really
hold together in in the slightest bit of
14:56.4
15:02.6
mechanical application ie my small car
me hand and they disappear they just
15:02.6
15:08.8
they rub right off so can we deal with
calcium upsets yes to what degree can we
15:08.8
15:14.1
deal with them it really depends on the
location in the area the easiest way is
15:14.1
15:19.3
to just prevent them from the beginning
right try and just pretreat and then not
15:19.3
15:23.6
deal with the issue at all but I mean I
get that’s probably not an answer that
15:23.6
15:28.6
everyone would love to have but if
anyone feels inclined to go through a
15:28.6
15:33.3
design of experiments with me I’d be
happy
15:33.6
15:37.4
well we’ll definitely talk afterwards
you know in Atlanta we have extremely
15:37.4
15:42.7
soft water and some people translate
that into they do not need water
15:42.7
15:46.2
softener folks I’m here to tell you I’ve
been in the business for a very long
15:46.2
15:49.9
time my father was in the business
before I was and if you’re gonna have a
15:49.9
15:52.7
boiler just because of the nature of the
beast
15:52.7
15:56.8
start with better water quality and a
water softeners just something that can
15:56.8
16:01.6
hedge so many bets and then if you have
a chemistry that works even better than
16:01.6
16:06.2
some other chemistry that’s just gonna
make you more successful so you and I
16:06.2
16:10.0
didn’t answer that question for each
other but I think we gave them enough
16:10.0
16:14.9
information that they can figure out
what they need to do well Mary I want to
16:14.9
16:20.7
get into now that we are going to feed
this product so how do we feed it and
16:20.7
16:27.6
where is the best place to feed it okay
so my preference is to feed it into a
16:27.6
16:31.4
makeup line whether that’s a manifold
going into the boiler or whether it has
16:31.4
16:36.3
to go into a holding tank first add a
tank I mean there’s you all know you’ve
16:36.3
16:39.9
been in so many different facilities
every set ups a little bit different
16:39.9
16:46.8
ultimately my preference would be for it
to go into a manifold if it needs to or
16:46.8
16:52.5
just through its online into the boiler
and I want to ghost the system if you
16:52.5
16:57.0
will based on makeup water so if you can
put a meter on your makeup
16:57.0
17:02.9
that’s preferential for application one
for just knowing exactly how much you’re
17:02.9
17:09.3
using but to to really be able to hone
in what’s what’s really needed so meter
17:09.3
17:12.2
on your makeup
I want to going into a line and then
17:12.2
17:16.1
into your boiler but I can tell you we
have people we’re like that’s not an
17:16.1
17:21.8
option and so it goes into a da ting or
it goes into a holding tank you know
17:21.8
17:26.5
there we kind of have to go wherever our
options are what you need to know is
17:26.5
17:31.2
that the filming means do exactly what
we’ve discussed stay clean out and then
17:31.2
17:37.3
they film so if you go into your da tank
first you’re going to see movements
17:37.3
17:42.5
potential remobilize ation of whatever
loose corrosion debris you have if
17:42.5
17:45.6
whatever and then that’s going to move
we’ve got to be
17:45.6
17:49.4
ready to get that out of there and then
it’s gonna slowly but surely work its
17:49.4
17:52.8
way through the system it’s gonna
progress you know from your DNA into
17:52.8
17:57.3
your boiler up into your steam lines and
then background so would you suggest if
17:57.3
18:03.2
the only place you can feed is in a feed
water or da tank and you know that it is
18:03.2
18:07.2
fouled maybe it’s a little corroded we
can expect that there’s going to be some
18:07.2
18:11.1
cleaning do we maybe waste some of that
water and the initial process is there a
18:11.1
18:15.9
way around that or do we just have to
deal with it if you can if it is an
18:15.9
18:22.3
option to let it circulate and then
drain it out I mean my preference is
18:22.3
18:26.6
always just to get the crud out truly
the nice thing about boilers and cooling
18:26.6
18:30.4
towers is that they’re constantly you
know there’s a bleed there’s a flushing
18:30.4
18:36.1
system built into how they function and
in the beginning when you first bring
18:36.1
18:40.0
these things online and it goes through
this cleaning process it’s gotta get out
18:40.0
18:43.8
of there so blow it down blow it down
blow it down blow down your mud drum
18:43.8
18:47.1
extra if it’s possible I mean you can
you can go ahead and either leave your
18:47.1
18:50.4
conductivity set point for your service
blowdown or you can lower it just a
18:50.4
18:55.0
little bit if you want to but just get
it out blow it down bleed it off
18:55.0
19:00.1
whatever you want to call it but get it
out of there because ultimately what
19:00.1
19:06.8
leaving loose debris does is leaves
increased surface area in there then all
19:06.8
19:12.1
of a sudden there’s there’s even more
like little niche space for the filming
19:12.1
19:17.3
amines to go and I don’t want them to go
on to debris that we’re gonna blow down
19:17.3
19:20.4
that we don’t want in there I want them
to go on to your pipes I want them to go
19:20.4
19:27.2
on the surfaces that we have a goal for
coating so I don’t want to use up the
19:27.2
19:32.3
material or the filmers if you will on a
spot that ultimately I want to go down
19:32.3
19:36.2
the drain I love that explanation it
makes perfect sense I always tell my
19:36.2
19:40.3
customers when I’m trying to explain
that that chemical is lazy and if it can
19:40.3
19:43.7
get to something quicker than where we
actually want it to go that’s where it’s
19:43.7
19:48.8
gonna go so if we can get all that free
stuff out we’re just going to have more
19:48.8
19:54.1
available filming I mean product to go
where we want it to go and like a cat
19:54.1
19:59.1
the caveat to that is if if the optics
with your customer
19:59.1
20:02.7
are such that let’s say they come to you
they’re like well we know we have a
20:02.7
20:06.0
scale system and we have a boiler
inspection in two months and we wanted
20:06.0
20:08.4
to look better do you have something to
clean it out
20:08.4
20:13.7
well the filming it means will work but
will they work in two months so that
20:13.7
20:17.9
optically you look like a hero maybe
maybe not
20:17.9
20:24.7
so if you if you have a situation where
you’re heavily scaled then maybe doing
20:24.7
20:30.3
and ask the cleaning ahead of time and
just getting it out to begin with right
20:30.3
20:35.9
clean it off clear it out to begin with
and then going in with your filmer to go
20:35.9
20:39.5
in and scrub the rest and film the
system over and protect the metals
20:39.5
20:46.4
you’re just going to accelerate your
rate of success right so I mean we think
20:46.4
20:51.0
through this process and the application
of filming it means don’t completely
20:51.0
20:54.5
erase even though I told you to turn one
set of chemistry on turn another set of
20:54.5
20:58.8
chemistry on or off and then on you
still have all of your other tools
20:58.8
21:03.9
available to you so making sure that we
we focus and have a well-rounded
21:03.9
21:09.4
approach is still important here no we
we don’t need to forget everything that
21:09.4
21:12.0
we know about water treatment just
simply because we’re changing
21:12.0
21:18.0
chemistry’s loud and clear here so let
me ask this ideally we want it going
21:18.0
21:24.4
into the feed water line close to the
boiler so it sees that first now or
21:24.4
21:28.4
going directly into the boiler if we can
do that through manifold if we can’t do
21:28.4
21:32.8
that let’s say we can’t so now we’re
feeding into a feed water tank and then
21:32.8
21:37.1
ideally we’re metering off of the make
up so we have a metered amount of
21:37.1
21:41.1
filming I mean product that’s going into
the system let’s say we don’t have a
21:41.1
21:45.4
water meter how do we feed it then or is
that not the right product then well we
21:45.4
21:50.7
do have people feed it without a water
meter we basically do a series of
21:50.7
21:56.6
calculations based on okay how much
water are you using a day we can look at
21:56.6
22:02.2
the horsepower of the system what we
think the volume of the system is we can
22:02.2
22:06.6
look at condensate return rate whether
we can you know they know the condensate
22:06.6
22:09.8
return rate or do we have to measure
and calculate that there are
22:09.8
22:17.6
calculations that we can do that can get
us relatively close to a makeup rate
22:17.6
22:22.7
it’s not perfect it’s not my favorite
way of doing it but it is possible to do
22:22.7
22:30.2
and then basically based on a series of
calculations and then either best-case
22:30.2
22:35.8
scenarios or assumptions right whether
it runs 100% all the time or if it runs
22:35.8
22:40.6
70 percent of its capacity or if it runs
60 percent of its capacity we can do a
22:40.6
22:45.4
series of calculations that enable us to
make a best guess and then we can dose
22:45.4
22:50.6
based on that and then ultimately
something that we didn’t talk about last
22:50.6
22:56.0
week but I think we can touch on here if
it works is that the question of how do
22:56.0
23:00.2
we know if we’ve properly dosed a system
right
23:00.2
23:04.3
the nice thing or what we’re used to I
say it’s an icing it’s just what we’re
23:04.3
23:10.8
used to about conventional oxygen
scavengers say is that we have a pretty
23:10.8
23:16.1
well-established
program for measuring oxygen metering an
23:16.1
23:21.8
oxygen scavenger and then if there’s X
residual of oxygen scavenger then we
23:21.8
23:24.6
feel pretty comfortable saying okay
we’ve consumed the oxygen in the system
23:24.6
23:29.0
which shouldn’t be at risk for
oxygenating well the same type of
23:29.0
23:34.0
phenomenon happens here in understanding
whether or not we’ve appropriately
23:34.0
23:40.7
treated the surface area of a system so
we have X surface area in a system
23:40.7
23:45.1
doesn’t matter how much how do we know
if all of that surface area is coated
23:45.1
23:50.0
well the answer to that is actually the
same as the answer to the oxygen
23:50.0
23:54.2
scavenger question is is there a
residual is there a residual of the
23:54.2
23:58.5
chemical left so if there’s a residual
oxygen scavenger we say ah we’ve
23:58.5
24:03.1
consumed all of the oxygen and system if
there’s residual filming a mean in a
24:03.1
24:09.3
system then we say ah we’ve covered
we’ve coated all of the surface area in
24:09.3
24:14.6
a system so in the world of dosing
without a meter we can do the math and
24:14.6
24:19.6
then we would just monitor for filming a
mean residual
24:19.6
24:24.7
in specific locations so that we could
say okay well in here we seem to be
24:24.7
24:30.1
dosing appropriately we’ve got a healthy
residual we have no iron right there’s
24:30.1
24:34.4
no corrosion actively occurring and
we’ve got a decent pH okay recover we’re
24:34.4
24:39.5
good there you go I think there is a lot
of confusion around that though so now
24:39.5
24:44.2
I’m an old school water treater I’m used
to treating boilers and having multiple
24:44.2
24:49.4
parameters that I can identify to see if
the program is going properly an example
24:49.4
24:53.2
is like the one you gave I can check for
sulfite I can check for my phosphate I
24:53.2
24:59.2
can check for the amine in the steam
line treatment I can check for how much
24:59.2
25:03.1
polymer if I want to run that so I’ve
got all these different checks that I
25:03.1
25:07.3
can run because I’m putting all these
different products in now that I’m
25:07.3
25:12.0
taking those products away and I’m
replacing it with my filming amine
25:12.0
25:17.4
product I have the I think it’s the Rose
Bend gal method that a lot of people use
25:17.4
25:21.6
but basically it’s just a color test and
if it turns the right color we know that
25:21.6
25:26.4
we have available filming amine in the
system but we don’t have all those other
25:26.4
25:31.2
tests so for somebody that likes to see
a bunch of tests just to know what’s
25:31.2
25:35.6
going on in the system what advice can
you give me so my answer is actually
25:35.6
25:42.3
kind of twofold my my first response are
okay so you can measure all of those
25:42.3
25:46.1
things in a conventional program you can
measure polymer and you can measure so
25:46.1
25:49.5
if I pick them all you can measure them
all but what’s your ultimate marker for
25:49.5
25:54.8
success you open up oiler up and it
looks good it looks good or you pay
25:54.8
25:59.2
attention to your iron levels its
corrosion rate that’s old ultimately our
25:59.2
26:04.7
marker for our be doing well is what’s
the corrosion rate in that system or if
26:04.7
26:09.0
you open it up does it look good is it
clean right so I can measure a polymer
26:09.0
26:12.0
loading until the cows come home
and so that okay what does that tell me
26:12.0
26:16.2
it tells me a polymer level it doesn’t
necessarily tell me how well something
26:16.2
26:20.7
is doing what I really care about is
corrosion rate the same thing is true
26:20.7
26:25.4
for film enemies okay so that’s one
piece it’s like let’s look at our
26:25.4
26:30.1
ultimate key performance indicator let’s
look at how our we have our marketing
26:30.1
26:33.2
success or we mark
by saying okay I can do ten different
26:33.2
26:38.6
tests and then I can show that I’ve done
seven different tests or are we looking
26:38.6
26:44.6
at it based on what really matters in my
mind that’s that’s corrosion rate the
26:44.6
26:51.5
the other piece of that is that testing
per residual of filming Amin is truly no
26:51.5
26:55.6
different than testing for residual like
I said of a different product I mean
26:55.6
27:00.0
you’re ultimately doing the same thing
but rather than me tell you I need you
27:00.0
27:04.1
to test four different products because
you’re putting four different products
27:04.1
27:09.4
in there I’m telling you you’re putting
this one item in there and I want you to
27:09.4
27:13.3
test for this item it’s essentially the
same thing
27:13.3
27:17.1
it’s we’re still just looking for a
residual it just is there residual left
27:17.1
27:21.7
in solution because ions in solution
have been consumed or is there a
27:21.7
27:27.1
residual left in solution because
surface area has been consumed it’s the
27:27.1
27:32.7
same thing it’s apples and apples and I
think what throws people off is that
27:32.7
27:37.4
it’s four to one like we just bumped
down how many things we were testing and
27:37.4
27:41.8
I think that just kind of weirds people
out no I think that’s a very good point
27:41.8
27:45.0
you know I used to be able to test all
these things so I think I’m getting
27:45.0
27:48.8
better information but I think you said
it very well I’m getting the information
27:48.8
27:53.0
that I need to run the type of program
that I’m running and ultimately our
27:53.0
27:59.5
marker is lack of corrosion right so if
we’re monitoring if we care about iron
27:59.5
28:05.5
or just picking iron you know if we care
about iron and we have no iron then
28:05.5
28:08.6
we’re successful regardless of the
program that we’re getting regardless of
28:08.6
28:12.9
the other tests that we can do okay let
me caveat this I don’t want people to be
28:12.9
28:17.8
like if I use filming means I’ll have to
run one test it’s not necessarily the
28:17.8
28:23.0
case I like to look at systems any type
of system with a little bit more of a
28:23.0
28:27.4
holistic approach so first and foremost
I do care what my iron levels are or
28:27.4
28:32.6
whatever my medal of interest is copper
iron aluminum whatever I care about my
28:32.6
28:37.2
metal I care about my pH still that’s
still relevant I was still you know in
28:37.2
28:42.5
in a perfect world I would like it to be
within a specific range I care about how
28:42.5
28:45.2
much chemistry I’m using I care about
what my
28:45.2
28:51.5
clarity looks like am i clear and my
colorless so it’s still looking at a
28:51.5
28:56.8
system for the overall health of the
system it’s just that in the world of
28:56.8
29:01.9
residual testing instead of testing the
four that we’re used to we’re just
29:01.9
29:05.7
testing the one but we’re still looking
at all of the other pieces they’re still
29:05.7
29:10.4
relevant where should we be taking our
tests from or should we be running
29:10.4
29:16.4
multiple tests well you can do a few
different sites partly that’s based on a
29:16.4
29:20.5
mechanical availability and partly
that’s based on limitations of the
29:20.5
29:28.3
residual tests themselves my preference
is to look for residual at your furthest
29:28.3
29:33.9
point from application so my preference
would be in a condensate return line
29:33.9
29:39.5
with a sample cooler and I’ll tell you
why because if we have chemistry loading
29:39.5
29:44.9
into a boiler or a makeup tank or a
holding tank or a DA whatever if we have
29:44.9
29:49.3
it on that if a plication is on that end
it is a non-volatile treatment we’re
29:49.3
29:53.6
gonna go in and we’re gonna film and
maintain page from the point of
29:53.6
29:58.3
application all the way till the point
that it returns well if I look for
29:58.3
30:03.1
residual and iron and pH right that’s my
little trifecta that I really really
30:03.1
30:08.0
care about if I look for those items at
the furthest point and I have no metal
30:08.0
30:14.4
and I have a healthy pH and I have a
residual then I feel comfortable saying
30:14.4
30:20.7
that we have filmed all of the surface
area up to the point of sampling and I
30:20.7
30:25.6
wish I could say it went off without a
hitch 100% of the time every time in
30:25.6
30:31.8
some systems for whatever reason
sometimes we end up never seeing a
30:31.8
30:36.9
residual and honestly I can’t answer why
but we have no iron our iron levels are
30:36.9
30:42.5
essentially non-existent so my pH is
good my iron is good I don’t have a
30:42.5
30:47.3
residual in a perfect world I’d get all
three and it’d be a hat-trick but I have
30:47.3
30:52.3
no iron so I’m happy in some systems we
get it and it’s it’s hot pink at that
30:52.3
30:56.2
point and why it is Messiah and why it
isn’t with others honestly there’s a
30:56.2
30:58.7
whole slew of potential scenarios there
that
30:58.7
31:03.7
could go through whether it was steam
consumption or that were just still you
31:03.7
31:08.2
know there’s some Dudley somewhere that
we’ve just continued to work out and
31:08.2
31:11.6
chip away out and chip away on and rip
way out it because that area is there
31:11.6
31:17.1
we’ve yet to see a residual right but
ultimately we have no metal our
31:17.1
31:22.0
corrosion rates are good so we’re happy
so that’s my preference in endpoint of
31:22.0
31:28.8
of sampling and looking at have we fully
coded a system the reason that I say
31:28.8
31:34.4
sample coolers are a best friend is two
reasons person for most it’s a safety
31:34.4
31:37.7
issue and I know how have you are
laughing at me right now they like oh my
31:37.7
31:41.2
gosh lady if I could only get my
customer to put on a sample cooler just
31:41.2
31:46.7
remember that hands you really only get
the two and I just want you to burn
31:46.7
31:51.2
yourself it’s just a safety issue
totally get it and thank you for the
31:51.2
31:56.3
public service announcement I think they
should come as a requirement with every
31:56.3
32:00.6
boiler because we’re dealing with a lot
of these things and they’re hot it just
32:00.6
32:05.4
makes sense so thank you for saying that
that’s part of it is you know take care
32:05.4
32:10.1
of your hands you only get the one set
the other piece is is that we’re talking
32:10.1
32:15.6
about volatile chemistry so if you catch
a hot see in pool there’s like steamy as
32:15.6
32:20.2
you’re catching it the potential for
loss of what you’re actually looking for
32:20.2
32:25.9
is there and the test for one of the
limitations of the test is that it needs
32:25.9
32:29.7
to be cooled for you to actually be able
to run the samples they have to go down
32:29.7
32:34.2
so if you have an open container and
it’s allowed to sit there and vent and
32:34.2
32:38.2
cool off so that you don’t burn your
hands and so that your test will
32:38.2
32:42.0
function there is potential for loss
there of what you’re actually looking
32:42.0
32:46.4
for maybe you have residual and maybe
can just solve a pearlized off there’s a
32:46.4
32:52.5
level of control in elimination of
variables that is my preference to
32:52.5
32:57.1
observe and that is one of them is that
you’ll be able to catch examples
32:57.1
33:00.2
ultimately what you’ll do to is you’ll
film your sample cooler you’ll protect
33:00.2
33:03.4
your sham cooler anyway so that’s my
preference there and the reality is
33:03.4
33:07.1
catching a sample speaking the
limitations of the test catching a
33:07.1
33:09.2
sample with the tests that are currently
a
33:09.2
33:15.3
directly out of a boiler is beyond the
limits of those tests and so if you if
33:15.3
33:19.2
chemistry was just added right let’s say
it just made up and so chemistry was
33:19.2
33:23.0
just outed and you grab a sample out of
there and you look out and you’re like
33:23.0
33:27.9
oh man I am hot pink awesome I’m awesome
I don’t want you to have a false sense
33:27.9
33:31.6
of security over what the whole rest of
your system looks like and then think to
33:31.6
33:35.0
yourself oh I can just turn this down
right I can turn my chemical calm down
33:35.0
33:39.9
okay well yeah at that particular point
at dr. ticular moment it looked like you
33:39.9
33:44.0
had a lot you don’t you just dumped a
bunch in there however fast forward to
33:44.0
33:48.4
later in the day and your boiler has
been running and your filmers have been
33:48.4
33:52.1
filming and going up in your steam lines
and performing the functions that we now
33:52.1
33:56.3
understand them to perform maybe it lets
you catch a boiler sample and it looks
33:56.3
33:59.5
like there’s nothing in there and you
think oh my gosh I need to turn my pump
33:59.5
34:04.0
up well maybe but what it is is your
system filmed is there iron in your
34:04.0
34:07.1
system maybe you don’t need to pump turn
your pump up it’s just that it’s already
34:07.1
34:12.9
gone and done its job so the other piece
is that often we just get if people
34:12.9
34:17.5
catch out of boilers we just get over
and able to read numbers because it’s
34:17.5
34:22.4
just beyond the range of what the test
is capable of or the tests huh plural or
34:22.4
34:27.3
capable of measuring so that makes sense
that makes perfect sense and I know you
34:27.3
34:32.7
and I had a discussion after my
presentation at the 2018 convention when
34:32.7
34:39.5
I did my paper on filming products in a
closed-loop system and we touched a
34:39.5
34:44.3
little bit on cooling towers but the big
part of my paper I think was how to
34:44.3
34:50.0
actually use the test and if you look at
and and they’re they’re what five
34:50.0
34:54.8
different manufacturers at least that
are making these amine tests and so
34:54.8
35:00.0
depending on which one you use I’ve
really found that I can get different
35:00.0
35:05.7
answers within the same test just
depending on how I tested it how long I
35:05.7
35:10.5
waited whether I use plastic whether I
use glass so I want to talk with you a
35:10.5
35:16.7
little bit around the test limitations
but then also get your opinion on what
35:16.7
35:20.3
I’ve come up with is I kind of use it as
a go know
35:20.3
35:25.8
go rather than I have this many parts
per million in the system sure so my
35:25.8
35:33.0
advice as a chemist is someone that
helps all different types of teams from
35:33.0
35:39.7
all different walks of life is pick a
method pick a method and go with it we
35:39.7
35:46.5
have to control as many variables again
as possible so if you have a team of
35:46.5
35:51.9
individuals and everybody has a Dr 900
then that’s going to be our method we’re
35:51.9
35:55.9
going to go with it where we’re going to
put together a really basic simple
35:55.9
36:00.0
sampling procedure so that everybody’s
catching the same types of samples
36:00.0
36:04.5
everybody’s using exactly what you said
pick a class where I don’t care what you
36:04.5
36:10.5
want to use but pick one and go with it
because what that allows not just your
36:10.5
36:15.7
vendors to do as far as helping with
troubleshooting but also allows the
36:15.7
36:18.4
people you said the guys that are coming
up with the different testing
36:18.4
36:26.5
methodologies is it will provide them an
adequate sample size and an own sampling
36:26.5
36:30.6
method but you know within a certain
team or within a certain set of teams
36:30.6
36:36.9
then they can make in analytical
decisions on how to improve their if
36:36.9
36:42.3
everybody on the planet does it a
different way and some guys use glass
36:42.3
36:47.5
and some guys use nail genes and some
guys use Teflon and some guys cap them
36:47.5
36:50.7
and some guys done and sometimes it’s
hot and sometimes it’s cold and just
36:50.7
36:56.3
pick every available scenario under Sun
all it does is leave us sitting there
36:56.3
37:00.3
going well
you know 60% of the time it works every
37:00.3
37:09.6
time and I don’t feel like that helps
any of us functionally move forward so
37:09.6
37:14.0
pick a sampling technique have you guys
use the same method whether they use
37:14.0
37:18.4
comment’ Rix’s tests or aqua phoenix
test or if they get a test kit from
37:18.4
37:24.6
masters i don’t care
pick one have your vendor help write up
37:24.6
37:29.2
a really basic sampling technique if you
don’t have one make sure you all have
37:29.2
37:33.7
one all you guys need the same thing
everybody can execute it in
37:33.7
37:38.7
same way and then we can start
collecting information on success and
37:38.7
37:43.1
failure and if we get to a certain point
where with a specific method and a
37:43.1
37:49.9
specific team where it’s that one’s just
not working or we continue to see result
37:49.9
37:55.6
X then we can address the situation with
no many means and everything to do with
37:55.6
37:59.6
operation you’re right and I’ve told
people it’s better to be consistently
37:59.6
38:05.7
wrong than not consistent sure because
what it allows us to do then is figure
38:05.7
38:12.3
out an avenue of change to find a better
option no that’s a great point
38:12.3
38:17.2
so I think we’ve covered a lot about
boilers but we did skip over a section
38:17.2
38:22.9
that I’d like to go back to so we’re now
getting ready to put the chemistry on so
38:22.9
38:27.8
is there a difference between the final
part per million that needs to be in the
38:27.8
38:33.8
system and the initial dosage there’s a
couple of ways we can approach dosing
38:33.8
38:39.9
and really it depends on the experience
that the water treaty has with filming
38:39.9
38:44.8
amines right and it depends on when you
do that system inventory when you
38:44.8
38:47.9
determine your kpi’s in beginning and
what we’re getting ourselves into in
38:47.9
38:55.2
this process it depends on really those
items okay so my initial mantra for
38:55.2
39:03.3
everyone who is new to filming amines or
and/or I should say has an own fouled
39:03.3
39:10.1
system is slow and low your vendors
gonna give you a target dose I’m gonna
39:10.1
39:14.5
make up numbers for easy mass let’s say
that target dose is a thousand parts per
39:14.5
39:19.7
million and at a thousand parts per
million we feel comfortable saying in
39:19.7
39:23.7
ninety percent of the situations 90
percent of boilers at a thousand parts
39:23.7
39:29.4
per million of product that we can
effectively treat an entire system when
39:29.4
39:33.0
you first bring the chemistry on when
you turn the one set of pumps off and
39:33.0
39:37.6
turn on you’re filming a main product
pump my advice in a known file system or
39:37.6
39:42.5
if you’re new to filming technology is
cut that in half cut that down to 500
39:42.5
39:47.2
parts per million because it’s going to
do exactly what we’ve discussed it
39:47.2
39:52.0
going to remote belies corrosion
material it’s going to start picking it
39:52.0
39:57.2
scales all of that’s going to come off
and what we don’t want to have happen is
39:57.2
40:03.2
for that to all of that to move into
like a steam trap or a low flow area or
40:03.2
40:08.8
an elbow or pick something and then just
sit there right we don’t want to move so
40:08.8
40:15.7
much so fast that the rate of remobilize
ation supersedes the rate that we can
40:15.7
40:20.9
blow it down and get it out of a system
so that comes to the other point in the
40:20.9
40:25.1
art slow and low mantra and that is
blowdown blow it down blow it down you
40:25.1
40:29.2
got to get it out of there it’s good
what we’re doing but we don’t want it
40:29.2
40:33.0
just like I said we don’t want to just
leave extra surface area in there it’s
40:33.0
40:35.7
exactly that we don’t want to leave that
in there we don’t want interactions
40:35.7
40:39.7
occurring where we don’t want them we
want it to clean and film surfaces so
40:39.7
40:46.2
low it down and start at half if it’s an
extraordinary messy system I would say
40:46.2
40:50.9
even cut it in 1/4 so I’d say maybe
started 250 parts per million if our
40:50.9
40:54.6
thousand thousand parts per million
scenario is still holding right started
40:54.6
40:59.0
250 and what you’re gonna watch even
with all your extra blowdown is you’re
40:59.0
41:02.2
gonna watch your iron or your metal of
interest you’re going to watch it climb
41:02.2
41:06.2
right so you’re gonna have done a
baseline measurement of whatever your
41:06.2
41:10.8
iron rate is at that moment before you
start the chemistry on and then you’re
41:10.8
41:15.5
gonna turn it on to either 50% of your
theoretical loading or you’re going to
41:15.5
41:18.4
turn it on to a quarter of your
theoretical loading your watch your iron
41:18.4
41:21.7
high you’re gonna want to climb you want
it to climb and your watch time and
41:21.7
41:25.1
you’re gonna call your vendor and say
what gives how is this happening and
41:25.1
41:27.8
they’re gonna say take a deep breath
it’s gonna be fine I’ll hold your hand I
41:27.8
41:31.8
promise and sometimes you do need to
hold water treaters hands that stuff is
41:31.8
41:37.7
scary scary and I have to tell you as a
vendor being however many miles away
41:37.7
41:41.6
with as much experience as I have with
this stuff even though I trust it
41:41.6
41:47.3
there’s a part of me that never wants to
put anyone in a position where they
41:47.3
41:51.2
could potentially look bad I don’t ever
want to hear a call where they’re like I
41:51.2
41:56.0
need you to talk to my end user because
they’re freaking out on me right I don’t
41:56.0
42:00.3
want that for you so preparing you and
then preparing your end
42:00.3
42:04.6
for the cleanup process is vital just
communicate with them just talk to him
42:04.6
42:09.3
let know it’s coming and and your vendor
should be happy and willing to walk in
42:09.3
42:13.8
there with you and communicate as well
right nobody just send you in there
42:13.8
42:19.6
alone if need be so you’re gonna watch
our iron level climb and we’re just
42:19.6
42:23.8
gonna hold steady with that dosing right
and then we’re gonna blow down blow down
42:23.8
42:26.9
blow down and then we’re gonna start to
watch the water clear up we’re gonna
42:26.9
42:33.2
watch the iron level start to drop and
as it starts to drop as our our numbers
42:33.2
42:38.6
improve we’re actually going to increase
our dose so if we were at a quarter of
42:38.6
42:41.7
the theoretical loading at two hundred
and fifty parts of product we’re gonna
42:41.7
42:45.5
bunk to five hundred or if we were
sitting happiest five hundred and we
42:45.5
42:49.4
start to see the iron number come down
we’re gonna bomb to a thousand okay and
42:49.4
42:55.2
when that happens we may or may not see
another blip in iron we may and we may
42:55.2
42:59.8
or may not see another a bit of a jump
typically what we see is just our iron
42:59.8
43:03.3
level continues to drop it drops and it
drops and it drops and it drops and
43:03.3
43:07.2
drops into tulta mately we reach some
sort of asymptote right we level off the
43:07.2
43:11.5
magical world it would just go to nothin
which honestly we’ve seen quite a few
43:11.5
43:18.9
times so when that point hits right when
we when we hit our theoretical dose and
43:18.9
43:23.5
we have no iron in our system we start
looking at other parameters we start
43:23.5
43:27.2
looking for okay do we see a residual
yet maybe you will maybe you want then
43:27.2
43:32.5
start looking what’s our pH have we have
we stabilized our pH how we stabilized
43:32.5
43:36.6
our iron here’s the deal it’s all the
while through this process and bringing
43:36.6
43:41.5
it on slow and low we’re not just gonna
bring it on and then completely walk
43:41.5
43:46.2
away we’re gonna have whatever our key
performance indicators are as you go
43:46.2
43:50.6
back and do your service monthly as we
go through this cleanup process and then
43:50.6
43:54.5
ultimately and I know we’ll talk about a
minute into like a more maintenance
43:54.5
44:01.1
phase of operating track all these
things track the iron what is your water
44:01.1
44:04.2
quality look like are you clear and
colorless did you turn into coffee
44:04.2
44:07.5
grounds and then did you return back to
clear colorless
44:07.5
44:12.0
were you looking like carrot juice and
then got to clear and color this I just
44:12.0
44:18.3
track it over time so that you have one
markers for success for yourself
44:18.3
44:21.7
but two you have markers for success
that you can share with your customer to
44:21.7
44:25.3
show that no look I understand you know
that this doesn’t look it’s great at the
44:25.3
44:28.0
moment but look at what we’re actually
doing look at the direction that we’re
44:28.0
44:34.4
progressing in so that’s my slow and low
how we operate your other option if it’s
44:34.4
44:38.9
brand new or truly you’re in a really
clean environment you know the system
44:38.9
44:44.6
that you’re in you you know how its
operating and you know you’ve got a
44:44.6
44:48.4
really strong handle on the water
chemistry there and you just want to
44:48.4
44:52.0
switch to filming means because that’s
you know you’re trying to work on their
44:52.0
44:56.4
profitability count or whatever
pick your favorite reason then if you
44:56.4
45:03.6
feel comfortable hitting it harder
starting in at the theoretical dose you
45:03.6
45:07.4
may have to initially spend a little bit
more more time at that facility but
45:07.4
45:11.1
hitting it hard in the beginning and
then ultimately what you’ll see is just
45:11.1
45:17.5
a rate of turnover faster as long as we
don’t mobilize too much too fast that’s
45:17.5
45:22.8
all great advice I can tell you the
first time I used the filming Amin
45:22.8
45:26.7
product it was several years ago we
didn’t have a lot of information out
45:26.7
45:30.8
about it somebody asked me to try this
it was a brand new system but there was
45:30.8
45:35.6
a lot of flash rusting that went on
inside it so we put the product in at
45:35.6
45:41.1
the maximum level because that’s what we
were told to do and I really thought we
45:41.1
45:47.1
just purchased that customer’s boiler I
was so upset that boiler it went from
45:47.1
45:51.6
red to black I mean it was it was just
horrible and then in about three days
45:51.6
45:56.2
time it went crystal clear we did
exactly what you said we were blowing
45:56.2
46:02.5
down and today I mean that’s probably
been eight years that boiler looks
46:02.5
46:09.4
pristine yeah which is what we see but I
do respect and fully grasp the fact that
46:09.4
46:13.1
when you first bring it on and you see
something like that and it is new to you
46:13.1
46:16.4
that moment of Terror where you like
what have I done
46:16.4
46:20.2
no and all I can say is you’re totally
normal
46:20.2
46:26.1
that everyone I cannot tell you how many
people I have spoken with how many
46:26.1
46:29.9
different teams I was bugged with it
there like the first time we did it we
46:29.9
46:34.3
thought oh gosh this was a terrible
decision you know but now they’re like
46:34.3
46:35.7
now they understand what we’re getting
into
46:35.7
46:40.3
and we just this is this is normal it’s
very status Club there’s there’s an
46:40.3
46:45.4
unfamiliar T in change or in the unknown
and that inherently makes people
46:45.4
46:48.9
uncomfortable
absolutely merridy are there any systems
46:48.9
46:53.3
are any conditions that you know of that
you would say you know you don’t want to
46:53.3
47:00.9
use this product for that if you’re
corrosion is truly kind of holding the
47:00.9
47:07.0
system together that not a good fit
because the filming amines really don’t
47:07.0
47:11.2
care they will just continue to scrub
whatever loose debris they can until
47:11.2
47:15.8
they get to a surface that they want to
stay attached to and we could end up
47:15.8
47:22.4
with a problem if you are in a months
through system unless we are solving a
47:22.4
47:27.9
problem right unless we’re saving
someone a pump every couple of years
47:27.9
47:32.3
that they were having to repurchase so
unless there’s some sort of issue that
47:32.3
47:37.4
we can really fix I would say once
through systems are with filming
47:37.4
47:43.2
technology expensive so for a program
that’s running well and your corrosion
47:43.2
47:47.1
rates are good but you don’t really have
a great return I would say that this is
47:47.1
47:52.3
maybe not your best option really in a
boiler and those are my two Biggie’s
47:52.3
47:58.4
well Marodi we have just spoken so much
around boilers this has been such a
47:58.4
48:03.8
great conversation I know that the
Scaling UP! nation is more educated about
48:03.8
48:09.2
filming I mean products and boilers than
they have ever been before so thank you
48:09.2
48:14.6
so much for all of the examples you gave
all the information that you gave but I
48:14.6
48:18.6
feel like I kind of lied to the audience
in the beginning I said this was the
48:18.6
48:22.5
conclusion of our show I want to bring
you back for another week so we can talk
48:22.5
48:26.8
about other systems like cooling towers
and closed-loop systems are you good for
48:26.8
48:32.0
that and ready when you are ready all
right well thank you so much for
48:32.0
48:35.5
spending so much time
the Scaling UP! nation and Scaling UP!
48:35.5
48:41.6
nation we will come back next week for
our final it has to be our final one I
48:41.6
48:44.7
know it’s going to be our final one
because I’m not going to spend any more
48:44.7
48:48.2
of Marodi’s time thank you so much
again for all the time that you’re
48:48.2
48:57.9
spending so scout out nation we will
catch you next week on Scaling UP! h2o