90 Transcript

090 The One That’s All About Filming Amines (Boilers)


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0:08.0

0:13.3

welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
for water treaters by water treaters where

0:13.3

0:16.9

we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
don’t Scaling UP! our systems

0:16.9

0:21.7

hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore
here your host for Scaling UP! h2o and

0:21.7

0:26.9

folks I am so excited because we are
bringing back last week’s guest of

0:26.9

0:31.5

course last week we learned all about
the history and the functionality of

0:31.5

0:35.6

filming amines well today we’re going to
be talking about how to actually use

0:35.6

0:41.0

those filmin amines in the systems that
we encounter each and every day of

0:41.0

0:47.4

course my returning guest is Marodi
Cribari, Marodi how are you and well

0:47.4

0:50.8

thank you how are you I’m doing
wonderful thank you so much for spending

0:50.8

0:54.9

some more time with us I know the
Scaling UP! nation has a lot of questions

0:54.9

0:58.4

around filming amines
I mentioned the presentation that I did

0:58.4

1:04.6

for a WT in 2018 and there were just so
many people that came up to me after I

1:04.6

1:09.0

did my presentation that had questions I
think we did a good job at answering a

1:09.0

1:13.5

lot of those last week but now we’re
going to get into the specifics of each

1:13.5

1:19.3

and every system are you ready
Randy all right so we are going to use

1:19.3

1:24.0

filming amines and boilers cooling
towers and closed loops and last week

1:24.0

1:28.0

you talked a little bit about how
different formulations work better in

1:28.0

1:34.1

those individual systems with that being
said let’s start with the boiler now I

1:34.1

1:39.6

have a boiler that’s on a phosphate
program and I decide that I want to

1:39.6

1:45.2

change that over to a filming amine
program what do I need to know and what

1:45.2

1:51.4

do I need to do so my answer is gonna go
in two different directions if we are in

1:51.4

1:57.5

a low-pressure non-critical environment
so as a CNI for in a hospital or for in

1:57.5

2:01.7

an office building or a school or I
don’t know pick a low-pressure

2:01.7

2:06.4

environment then my answer is actually
just turned the conventional chemistry

2:06.4

2:10.3

off and turn your filming technology on
there’s a million different types of

2:10.3

2:13.5

chemistry out there there’s so many
different formulations everybody’s

2:13.5

2:19.4

gotten its options for all intents and
purposes filming means don’t usually

2:19.4

2:23.0

have a
negative interaction with other types of

2:23.0

2:28.5

boiler chemistry’s however I don’t wanna
say it’s not possible and so easiest

2:28.5

2:32.9

answer both in practical application and
economically is turning it off so let’s

2:32.9

2:36.7

turn the other on and let’s get the
system turned over the flip side of that

2:36.7

2:42.0

is high pressure high temperature
critical operating environments right

2:42.0

2:49.2

and in that regard I would actually
refer everyone to a document called tech

2:49.2

2:54.1

its technical guidance document 8 put
out by the International Association of

2:54.1

2:57.9

properties of water and steam it’s free
and available online they have all sorts

2:57.9

3:01.6

of different technical guidance
documents but it is I mean it’s truly an

3:01.6

3:07.2

international collaborative by the top
professionals within an industry on how

3:07.2

3:11.8

to apply different types of application
so there’s one specifically on filming

3:11.8

3:17.1

amines so it walks you through the
process you will learn a lot about

3:17.1

3:21.0

filming means a nomenclature probably
you know more in depth of what we

3:21.0

3:25.9

basically works through last week but
then also it talks you through a bunch

3:25.9

3:30.7

of different type of applications
whether it’s biomass plants or nuclear

3:30.7

3:32.9

facilities or you know pick your
favorite high temperature high pressure

3:32.9

3:37.7

environment and it will talk you through
the ins and outs of turning one chemical

3:37.7

3:42.8

program off and bringing another
chemical program on in our experience I

3:42.8

3:47.1

truly believe that turning one off and
turning the other on is is in your best

3:47.1

3:52.7

interest especially for the majority of
the AWT marketplace but if you want more

3:52.7

3:56.9

details and just to be able to think a
little more critically I would refer you

3:56.9

4:00.8

to that document because I think it will
be an asset to you in your understanding

4:00.8

4:06.5

an application so when I’m disconnecting
the product so I’ve got my phosphate

4:06.5

4:10.1

I’ve got my steam line treatment I’ve
got my alkalinity builder my sludge

4:10.1

4:13.4

conditioner and my sulfide I’m just
connecting all of those and I’m

4:13.4

4:16.1

replacing them with filming amines is
that what you’re saying

4:16.1

4:21.0

we’re filming a main product yes so one
thing we didn’t talk about last week

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4:27.2

when we discussed nomenclature was in
referring to them a filming amine is a

4:27.2

4:32.3

molecule itself right so film forming in
me we also just have to film formers so

4:32.3

4:34.7

sometimes you’ll hear products refer to
guys

4:34.7

4:38.1

a film forming technology but that
doesn’t necessarily make it a mean and

4:38.1

4:43.0

then the last part of that nomenclature
is a film forming a mean product and

4:43.0

4:46.3

basically what that means is it’s a
complete product

4:46.3

4:51.4

it’s got filming a means in it as some
of the proper material but then there’s

4:51.4

4:55.8

also other materials in there whether
that’s an alkalizing amine or an

4:55.8

5:03.5

application-specific compound okay and
so in the world of boilers our cocktails

5:03.5

5:11.0

are generally derived of filming amines
and alkalizing means of some combo you

5:11.0

5:14.5

know pick your favorite film or pick
your favorite appetizers so it’s nice

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5:20.3

about a film for me and main product it
was a designed for boiler application is

5:20.3

5:27.3

that a means already inherently our
higher ph molecules so while the filming

5:27.3

5:34.8

amines impact over pH is not as great as
an alkalizing amines impact over pH

5:34.8

5:42.2

they’re both inherently going to buffer
to a higher pH so that takes care of the

5:42.2

5:46.0

filming it means not only take care of
your corrosion inhibitor but and then

5:46.0

5:50.3

the alkalis amines are exactly what you
know they say they’re going to do

5:50.3

5:53.9

they’re gonna not only neutralize pH but
then continue to drive the page up so

5:53.9

5:57.9

you’re gonna consume carbonic acid and
just drive your pH in the system up and

5:57.9

6:05.0

then they’re really yes you know the
only thing we’re not really mitigating

6:05.0

6:09.9

at that issue is oxygen scavenger but
the thing is remember what we talked

6:09.9

6:16.6

about last week when you form those
films and noting that in solution can

6:16.6

6:21.4

come in contact with the metal we’re not
worried about specifically oxygen

6:21.4

6:29.0

causing an oxygen pitting type problem
so in the simplest way of explaining it

6:29.0

6:35.6

you’re you’re truly you’re just you’re
solving those the problems that you

6:35.6

6:41.5

would originally be mitigating with for
different products with one product and

6:41.5

6:45.2

it just happens to perform in a
different way does that make sense I

6:45.2

6:48.4

think that makes complete sense now
let’s say you

6:48.4

6:55.2

I have the client supplier relationship
and I’m now going to change my boiler

6:55.2

7:01.2

over to a filming amine product what
information do you need from me to make

7:01.2

7:04.4

sure that you match the right product
for my need

7:04.4

7:09.2

sure so first and foremost I’m going to
ask you what pressure you’re running at

7:09.2

7:13.5

second I’m going to ask you what type of
facility you’re in so if you’re in a

7:13.5

7:17.8

facility that is FDA sensitive then
that’s going to pick a specific product

7:17.8

7:22.6

if you’re in a high-pressure power plant
I’m going to gravitate to high-pressure

7:22.6

7:27.8

options if you’re in a non FDA
low-pressure environment I’m in a direct

7:27.8

7:33.2

as towards low pressure options
so that’s thing I mean really choosing a

7:33.2

7:38.6

cocktail if you will choosing a product
is really based on this system more than

7:38.6

7:44.3

anything else the needs of that facility
is it fair to say that most maybe AWT

7:44.3

7:49.3

members are treating a specific type of
boiler and within that specific type of

7:49.3

7:53.9

boiler the specific type of conditions
that we can get away with using the same

7:53.9

8:01.9

product over multiple boilers yeah in my
experience with our AWT teams it’s it’s

8:01.9

8:06.7

generally lower pressure you have some
pressure teams but generally lower

8:06.7

8:11.4

pressure and it’s picking one of two are
you a low pressure environment where

8:11.4

8:18.2

it’s a hospital we need to conform to
the CFR or are you a non CFR compliant

8:18.2

8:22.5

facility and so it’s it’s really usually
one or the other all right so now we’ve

8:22.5

8:26.7

got the right product there we’ve
decided that we’re gonna go ahead and

8:26.7

8:31.8

just disable take away all of our formal
chemistry and now we’re gonna replace

8:31.8

8:38.0

that with our new film forming amine
product what do I need to expect and now

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8:42.2

maybe we talked about three different
case scenarios so now I have a boiler

8:42.2

8:45.5

that’s fine I just want to change the
product or maybe I’m trying to clean up

8:45.5

8:50.1

something like scale or corrosion what
do I need to look for with those sure so

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8:54.7

first thing I tell people to do is
system inventory make sure you know what

8:54.7

8:59.4

you’re getting yourself into do you have
a really old boiler and we’re going into

8:59.4

9:03.7

the problem right if so what’s your
problem are you having issues so

9:03.7

9:07.9

understanding if we’re trying to solve a
problem if it’s just that you’ve been

9:07.9

9:10.6

working with filming it means you know
you like them and you think that this

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9:14.2

would be a suitable facility for
application of film for me I mean

9:14.2

9:18.4

product and there’s really no issues
we’re just switching it over then okay

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9:22.9

that’s fine
I like to refer to identifying our

9:22.9

9:28.6

objectives as key performance indicators
what are our markers for success going

9:28.6

9:32.8

to be if it’s that we’re solving a
problem if we have iron issues then

9:32.8

9:37.0

eliminating an issue that’s a
performance indicator if we’re having

9:37.0

9:40.8

page management issues that’s a
performance indicator water loss and

9:40.8

9:44.3

then go through any of the different
scenarios that you could and identify

9:44.3

9:48.3

what your objectives are for your
chemical change right why are we doing

9:48.3

9:54.5

this and what do we expect and want and
or need to see so and then really go in

9:54.5

10:00.0

and do a systems inventory what’s the
state of this boiler am I is it it’s

10:00.0

10:03.5

something that I’ve been caring for for
a period of time and I’m familiar with

10:03.5

10:08.5

and so I know what my challenges are and
what to expect is a system that I’m

10:08.5

10:14.3

inheriting and maybe it’s been really
well cared for maybe it hasn’t but what

10:14.3

10:20.8

roadblocks could i potentially be up
against and I say that because with any

10:20.8

10:27.2

chemical regime change there’s going to
potentially be upsets right maybe there

10:27.2

10:31.0

will be maybe there won’t be but knowing
what you’re getting into ahead of time

10:31.0

10:36.1

helps you 1 communicate with your
customer your end user so that they know

10:36.1

10:40.7

what to expect at all of this ultimately
you’re doing a service to them right if

10:40.7

10:45.6

there is an issue let’s say it’s a scale
issue right let’s say you have a really

10:45.6

10:51.9

scaled situation there’s a boiler that
has inherently struggled with a softener

10:51.9

10:58.3

upsets in overtime you just have a
calcium scale buildup okay well we can

10:58.3

11:02.9

go in and we can constructively work to
clean that out but we all know with

11:02.9

11:07.0

scale deposition like that there’s
potential for under deposit corrosion

11:07.0

11:11.3

right it’s not necessarily Dada it’s
there to what degree it’s there but it’s

11:11.3

11:15.5

possible that it’s going
to be there how Bad’s it gonna be nobody

11:15.5

11:20.4

knows until we clean it off right but
you have an end user and they’re asking

11:20.4

11:24.7

you for heat transfer reasons to get
this cleaned up and cleaned out okay so

11:24.7

11:28.9

that’s fine but what do you need to be
prepared for well with under deposit

11:28.9

11:33.4

corrosion depending on how bad the
corrosion is we could potentially see

11:33.4

11:38.1

pinholes if you had active corrosion
cells in there and you go in and you

11:38.1

11:43.6

clean them out and corrosion transcends
a pipe then you could potentially see a

11:43.6

11:48.3

leak like if this is and again it’s not
this is not unique to filming technology

11:48.3

11:52.9

it’s just a reality of the situation so
knowing what you’re going into as you’re

11:52.9

11:57.6

taking something over as you’re cleaning
a system out is vital in my opinion so

11:57.6

12:01.1

those are the kinds of things I’d pay
attention to what’s your water quality I

12:01.1

12:05.5

mean do you have softeners do your
software’s function are you on ro you

12:05.5

12:09.7

know or are you in a are you in a state
are you in a location where you really

12:09.7

12:13.5

don’t struggle with calcium hardness
issues so there’s not that treatment

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12:18.3

there but just knowing the facility
knowing water usage how much water are

12:18.3

12:22.6

they using is their meter is their
makeup meter available to you those are

12:22.6

12:28.3

all types of questions that I ask going
into it so that we can constructively

12:28.3

12:34.1

move forward with a plan and have
markers for success as we move through

12:34.1

12:39.2

the process Marodi is there a specific
limit if you don’t have a water softener

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12:44.1

how much calcium our total hardness you
want to hold in the system obviously I

12:44.1

12:49.3

don’t have an answer for that one and
it’s it’s a crummy answer I get that but

12:49.3

12:54.6

here’s where it comes from
truly we work coast to coast north to

12:54.6

13:02.1

south and in some scenarios we have
people with relatively I say relatively

13:02.1

13:07.7

hard moderate I guess we could say
moderate hardness where soccers maybe go

13:07.7

13:13.0

in and out of working and they apply
filming amines and we haven’t seen any

13:13.0

13:19.1

issues where there hasn’t been any
redeposition or our growing deposition

13:19.1

13:24.0

of scale there’s been facilities where
we’ve had a softener go and we ended up

13:24.0

13:26.6

seeing
a deposition of calcium carbonate scale

13:26.6

13:31.1

the the truth of the matter is
especially in the world of boilers my

13:31.1

13:36.5

preference is always going to be that
there be pretreatment and I say that not

13:36.5

13:41.0

just as a plug for all my softener
people and all our help people out there

13:41.0

13:47.9

but because calcium carbonates have got
inverse thermal relationship regarding

13:47.9

13:55.8

solubility right and so pre treating a
system is just minimizing risk long term

13:55.8

14:02.0

what we do know with Filomena means what
what I’ve seen time and time again is

14:02.0

14:05.8

that with the application of Filomena
means whether you’re in a boiler or

14:05.8

14:10.3

whether you’re in a cooling tower or
even in a closed circuit type

14:10.3

14:17.9

environment is that what the application
of filming means if we see deposition on

14:17.9

14:24.0

calcium or other types of deposition you
can see deposit in like low-flow areas

14:24.0

14:31.1

but it deposits in in a non-adherent
form like there is a modification of the

14:31.1

14:38.3

scaling ions and they they may lay down
just because of a flow delay or slowing

14:38.3

14:43.1

whatever you want to call it change but
they don’t stick and when I say they

14:43.1

14:47.4

don’t stick I truly mean and when I’ve
seen them I can wipe them off and with

14:47.4

14:51.7

my hand sometimes they’re really soft
and fluffy sometimes they are a little

14:51.7

14:56.4

bit harder but the scale doesn’t really
hold together in in the slightest bit of

14:56.4

15:02.6

mechanical application ie my small car
me hand and they disappear they just

15:02.6

15:08.8

they rub right off so can we deal with
calcium upsets yes to what degree can we

15:08.8

15:14.1

deal with them it really depends on the
location in the area the easiest way is

15:14.1

15:19.3

to just prevent them from the beginning
right try and just pretreat and then not

15:19.3

15:23.6

deal with the issue at all but I mean I
get that’s probably not an answer that

15:23.6

15:28.6

everyone would love to have but if
anyone feels inclined to go through a

15:28.6

15:33.3

design of experiments with me I’d be
happy

15:33.6

15:37.4

well we’ll definitely talk afterwards
you know in Atlanta we have extremely

15:37.4

15:42.7

soft water and some people translate
that into they do not need water

15:42.7

15:46.2

softener folks I’m here to tell you I’ve
been in the business for a very long

15:46.2

15:49.9

time my father was in the business
before I was and if you’re gonna have a

15:49.9

15:52.7

boiler just because of the nature of the
beast

15:52.7

15:56.8

start with better water quality and a
water softeners just something that can

15:56.8

16:01.6

hedge so many bets and then if you have
a chemistry that works even better than

16:01.6

16:06.2

some other chemistry that’s just gonna
make you more successful so you and I

16:06.2

16:10.0

didn’t answer that question for each
other but I think we gave them enough

16:10.0

16:14.9

information that they can figure out
what they need to do well Mary I want to

16:14.9

16:20.7

get into now that we are going to feed
this product so how do we feed it and

16:20.7

16:27.6

where is the best place to feed it okay
so my preference is to feed it into a

16:27.6

16:31.4

makeup line whether that’s a manifold
going into the boiler or whether it has

16:31.4

16:36.3

to go into a holding tank first add a
tank I mean there’s you all know you’ve

16:36.3

16:39.9

been in so many different facilities
every set ups a little bit different

16:39.9

16:46.8

ultimately my preference would be for it
to go into a manifold if it needs to or

16:46.8

16:52.5

just through its online into the boiler
and I want to ghost the system if you

16:52.5

16:57.0

will based on makeup water so if you can
put a meter on your makeup

16:57.0

17:02.9

that’s preferential for application one
for just knowing exactly how much you’re

17:02.9

17:09.3

using but to to really be able to hone
in what’s what’s really needed so meter

17:09.3

17:12.2

on your makeup
I want to going into a line and then

17:12.2

17:16.1

into your boiler but I can tell you we
have people we’re like that’s not an

17:16.1

17:21.8

option and so it goes into a da ting or
it goes into a holding tank you know

17:21.8

17:26.5

there we kind of have to go wherever our
options are what you need to know is

17:26.5

17:31.2

that the filming means do exactly what
we’ve discussed stay clean out and then

17:31.2

17:37.3

they film so if you go into your da tank
first you’re going to see movements

17:37.3

17:42.5

potential remobilize ation of whatever
loose corrosion debris you have if

17:42.5

17:45.6

whatever and then that’s going to move
we’ve got to be

17:45.6

17:49.4

ready to get that out of there and then
it’s gonna slowly but surely work its

17:49.4

17:52.8

way through the system it’s gonna
progress you know from your DNA into

17:52.8

17:57.3

your boiler up into your steam lines and
then background so would you suggest if

17:57.3

18:03.2

the only place you can feed is in a feed
water or da tank and you know that it is

18:03.2

18:07.2

fouled maybe it’s a little corroded we
can expect that there’s going to be some

18:07.2

18:11.1

cleaning do we maybe waste some of that
water and the initial process is there a

18:11.1

18:15.9

way around that or do we just have to
deal with it if you can if it is an

18:15.9

18:22.3

option to let it circulate and then
drain it out I mean my preference is

18:22.3

18:26.6

always just to get the crud out truly
the nice thing about boilers and cooling

18:26.6

18:30.4

towers is that they’re constantly you
know there’s a bleed there’s a flushing

18:30.4

18:36.1

system built into how they function and
in the beginning when you first bring

18:36.1

18:40.0

these things online and it goes through
this cleaning process it’s gotta get out

18:40.0

18:43.8

of there so blow it down blow it down
blow it down blow down your mud drum

18:43.8

18:47.1

extra if it’s possible I mean you can
you can go ahead and either leave your

18:47.1

18:50.4

conductivity set point for your service
blowdown or you can lower it just a

18:50.4

18:55.0

little bit if you want to but just get
it out blow it down bleed it off

18:55.0

19:00.1

whatever you want to call it but get it
out of there because ultimately what

19:00.1

19:06.8

leaving loose debris does is leaves
increased surface area in there then all

19:06.8

19:12.1

of a sudden there’s there’s even more
like little niche space for the filming

19:12.1

19:17.3

amines to go and I don’t want them to go
on to debris that we’re gonna blow down

19:17.3

19:20.4

that we don’t want in there I want them
to go on to your pipes I want them to go

19:20.4

19:27.2

on the surfaces that we have a goal for
coating so I don’t want to use up the

19:27.2

19:32.3

material or the filmers if you will on a
spot that ultimately I want to go down

19:32.3

19:36.2

the drain I love that explanation it
makes perfect sense I always tell my

19:36.2

19:40.3

customers when I’m trying to explain
that that chemical is lazy and if it can

19:40.3

19:43.7

get to something quicker than where we
actually want it to go that’s where it’s

19:43.7

19:48.8

gonna go so if we can get all that free
stuff out we’re just going to have more

19:48.8

19:54.1

available filming I mean product to go
where we want it to go and like a cat

19:54.1

19:59.1

the caveat to that is if if the optics
with your customer

19:59.1

20:02.7

are such that let’s say they come to you
they’re like well we know we have a

20:02.7

20:06.0

scale system and we have a boiler
inspection in two months and we wanted

20:06.0

20:08.4

to look better do you have something to
clean it out

20:08.4

20:13.7

well the filming it means will work but
will they work in two months so that

20:13.7

20:17.9

optically you look like a hero maybe
maybe not

20:17.9

20:24.7

so if you if you have a situation where
you’re heavily scaled then maybe doing

20:24.7

20:30.3

and ask the cleaning ahead of time and
just getting it out to begin with right

20:30.3

20:35.9

clean it off clear it out to begin with
and then going in with your filmer to go

20:35.9

20:39.5

in and scrub the rest and film the
system over and protect the metals

20:39.5

20:46.4

you’re just going to accelerate your
rate of success right so I mean we think

20:46.4

20:51.0

through this process and the application
of filming it means don’t completely

20:51.0

20:54.5

erase even though I told you to turn one
set of chemistry on turn another set of

20:54.5

20:58.8

chemistry on or off and then on you
still have all of your other tools

20:58.8

21:03.9

available to you so making sure that we
we focus and have a well-rounded

21:03.9

21:09.4

approach is still important here no we
we don’t need to forget everything that

21:09.4

21:12.0

we know about water treatment just
simply because we’re changing

21:12.0

21:18.0

chemistry’s loud and clear here so let
me ask this ideally we want it going

21:18.0

21:24.4

into the feed water line close to the
boiler so it sees that first now or

21:24.4

21:28.4

going directly into the boiler if we can
do that through manifold if we can’t do

21:28.4

21:32.8

that let’s say we can’t so now we’re
feeding into a feed water tank and then

21:32.8

21:37.1

ideally we’re metering off of the make
up so we have a metered amount of

21:37.1

21:41.1

filming I mean product that’s going into
the system let’s say we don’t have a

21:41.1

21:45.4

water meter how do we feed it then or is
that not the right product then well we

21:45.4

21:50.7

do have people feed it without a water
meter we basically do a series of

21:50.7

21:56.6

calculations based on okay how much
water are you using a day we can look at

21:56.6

22:02.2

the horsepower of the system what we
think the volume of the system is we can

22:02.2

22:06.6

look at condensate return rate whether
we can you know they know the condensate

22:06.6

22:09.8

return rate or do we have to measure
and calculate that there are

22:09.8

22:17.6

calculations that we can do that can get
us relatively close to a makeup rate

22:17.6

22:22.7

it’s not perfect it’s not my favorite
way of doing it but it is possible to do

22:22.7

22:30.2

and then basically based on a series of
calculations and then either best-case

22:30.2

22:35.8

scenarios or assumptions right whether
it runs 100% all the time or if it runs

22:35.8

22:40.6

70 percent of its capacity or if it runs
60 percent of its capacity we can do a

22:40.6

22:45.4

series of calculations that enable us to
make a best guess and then we can dose

22:45.4

22:50.6

based on that and then ultimately
something that we didn’t talk about last

22:50.6

22:56.0

week but I think we can touch on here if
it works is that the question of how do

22:56.0

23:00.2

we know if we’ve properly dosed a system
right

23:00.2

23:04.3

the nice thing or what we’re used to I
say it’s an icing it’s just what we’re

23:04.3

23:10.8

used to about conventional oxygen
scavengers say is that we have a pretty

23:10.8

23:16.1

well-established
program for measuring oxygen metering an

23:16.1

23:21.8

oxygen scavenger and then if there’s X
residual of oxygen scavenger then we

23:21.8

23:24.6

feel pretty comfortable saying okay
we’ve consumed the oxygen in the system

23:24.6

23:29.0

which shouldn’t be at risk for
oxygenating well the same type of

23:29.0

23:34.0

phenomenon happens here in understanding
whether or not we’ve appropriately

23:34.0

23:40.7

treated the surface area of a system so
we have X surface area in a system

23:40.7

23:45.1

doesn’t matter how much how do we know
if all of that surface area is coated

23:45.1

23:50.0

well the answer to that is actually the
same as the answer to the oxygen

23:50.0

23:54.2

scavenger question is is there a
residual is there a residual of the

23:54.2

23:58.5

chemical left so if there’s a residual
oxygen scavenger we say ah we’ve

23:58.5

24:03.1

consumed all of the oxygen and system if
there’s residual filming a mean in a

24:03.1

24:09.3

system then we say ah we’ve covered
we’ve coated all of the surface area in

24:09.3

24:14.6

a system so in the world of dosing
without a meter we can do the math and

24:14.6

24:19.6

then we would just monitor for filming a
mean residual

24:19.6

24:24.7

in specific locations so that we could
say okay well in here we seem to be

24:24.7

24:30.1

dosing appropriately we’ve got a healthy
residual we have no iron right there’s

24:30.1

24:34.4

no corrosion actively occurring and
we’ve got a decent pH okay recover we’re

24:34.4

24:39.5

good there you go I think there is a lot
of confusion around that though so now

24:39.5

24:44.2

I’m an old school water treater I’m used
to treating boilers and having multiple

24:44.2

24:49.4

parameters that I can identify to see if
the program is going properly an example

24:49.4

24:53.2

is like the one you gave I can check for
sulfite I can check for my phosphate I

24:53.2

24:59.2

can check for the amine in the steam
line treatment I can check for how much

24:59.2

25:03.1

polymer if I want to run that so I’ve
got all these different checks that I

25:03.1

25:07.3

can run because I’m putting all these
different products in now that I’m

25:07.3

25:12.0

taking those products away and I’m
replacing it with my filming amine

25:12.0

25:17.4

product I have the I think it’s the Rose
Bend gal method that a lot of people use

25:17.4

25:21.6

but basically it’s just a color test and
if it turns the right color we know that

25:21.6

25:26.4

we have available filming amine in the
system but we don’t have all those other

25:26.4

25:31.2

tests so for somebody that likes to see
a bunch of tests just to know what’s

25:31.2

25:35.6

going on in the system what advice can
you give me so my answer is actually

25:35.6

25:42.3

kind of twofold my my first response are
okay so you can measure all of those

25:42.3

25:46.1

things in a conventional program you can
measure polymer and you can measure so

25:46.1

25:49.5

if I pick them all you can measure them
all but what’s your ultimate marker for

25:49.5

25:54.8

success you open up oiler up and it
looks good it looks good or you pay

25:54.8

25:59.2

attention to your iron levels its
corrosion rate that’s old ultimately our

25:59.2

26:04.7

marker for our be doing well is what’s
the corrosion rate in that system or if

26:04.7

26:09.0

you open it up does it look good is it
clean right so I can measure a polymer

26:09.0

26:12.0

loading until the cows come home
and so that okay what does that tell me

26:12.0

26:16.2

it tells me a polymer level it doesn’t
necessarily tell me how well something

26:16.2

26:20.7

is doing what I really care about is
corrosion rate the same thing is true

26:20.7

26:25.4

for film enemies okay so that’s one
piece it’s like let’s look at our

26:25.4

26:30.1

ultimate key performance indicator let’s
look at how our we have our marketing

26:30.1

26:33.2

success or we mark
by saying okay I can do ten different

26:33.2

26:38.6

tests and then I can show that I’ve done
seven different tests or are we looking

26:38.6

26:44.6

at it based on what really matters in my
mind that’s that’s corrosion rate the

26:44.6

26:51.5

the other piece of that is that testing
per residual of filming Amin is truly no

26:51.5

26:55.6

different than testing for residual like
I said of a different product I mean

26:55.6

27:00.0

you’re ultimately doing the same thing
but rather than me tell you I need you

27:00.0

27:04.1

to test four different products because
you’re putting four different products

27:04.1

27:09.4

in there I’m telling you you’re putting
this one item in there and I want you to

27:09.4

27:13.3

test for this item it’s essentially the
same thing

27:13.3

27:17.1

it’s we’re still just looking for a
residual it just is there residual left

27:17.1

27:21.7

in solution because ions in solution
have been consumed or is there a

27:21.7

27:27.1

residual left in solution because
surface area has been consumed it’s the

27:27.1

27:32.7

same thing it’s apples and apples and I
think what throws people off is that

27:32.7

27:37.4

it’s four to one like we just bumped
down how many things we were testing and

27:37.4

27:41.8

I think that just kind of weirds people
out no I think that’s a very good point

27:41.8

27:45.0

you know I used to be able to test all
these things so I think I’m getting

27:45.0

27:48.8

better information but I think you said
it very well I’m getting the information

27:48.8

27:53.0

that I need to run the type of program
that I’m running and ultimately our

27:53.0

27:59.5

marker is lack of corrosion right so if
we’re monitoring if we care about iron

27:59.5

28:05.5

or just picking iron you know if we care
about iron and we have no iron then

28:05.5

28:08.6

we’re successful regardless of the
program that we’re getting regardless of

28:08.6

28:12.9

the other tests that we can do okay let
me caveat this I don’t want people to be

28:12.9

28:17.8

like if I use filming means I’ll have to
run one test it’s not necessarily the

28:17.8

28:23.0

case I like to look at systems any type
of system with a little bit more of a

28:23.0

28:27.4

holistic approach so first and foremost
I do care what my iron levels are or

28:27.4

28:32.6

whatever my medal of interest is copper
iron aluminum whatever I care about my

28:32.6

28:37.2

metal I care about my pH still that’s
still relevant I was still you know in

28:37.2

28:42.5

in a perfect world I would like it to be
within a specific range I care about how

28:42.5

28:45.2

much chemistry I’m using I care about
what my

28:45.2

28:51.5

clarity looks like am i clear and my
colorless so it’s still looking at a

28:51.5

28:56.8

system for the overall health of the
system it’s just that in the world of

28:56.8

29:01.9

residual testing instead of testing the
four that we’re used to we’re just

29:01.9

29:05.7

testing the one but we’re still looking
at all of the other pieces they’re still

29:05.7

29:10.4

relevant where should we be taking our
tests from or should we be running

29:10.4

29:16.4

multiple tests well you can do a few
different sites partly that’s based on a

29:16.4

29:20.5

mechanical availability and partly
that’s based on limitations of the

29:20.5

29:28.3

residual tests themselves my preference
is to look for residual at your furthest

29:28.3

29:33.9

point from application so my preference
would be in a condensate return line

29:33.9

29:39.5

with a sample cooler and I’ll tell you
why because if we have chemistry loading

29:39.5

29:44.9

into a boiler or a makeup tank or a
holding tank or a DA whatever if we have

29:44.9

29:49.3

it on that if a plication is on that end
it is a non-volatile treatment we’re

29:49.3

29:53.6

gonna go in and we’re gonna film and
maintain page from the point of

29:53.6

29:58.3

application all the way till the point
that it returns well if I look for

29:58.3

30:03.1

residual and iron and pH right that’s my
little trifecta that I really really

30:03.1

30:08.0

care about if I look for those items at
the furthest point and I have no metal

30:08.0

30:14.4

and I have a healthy pH and I have a
residual then I feel comfortable saying

30:14.4

30:20.7

that we have filmed all of the surface
area up to the point of sampling and I

30:20.7

30:25.6

wish I could say it went off without a
hitch 100% of the time every time in

30:25.6

30:31.8

some systems for whatever reason
sometimes we end up never seeing a

30:31.8

30:36.9

residual and honestly I can’t answer why
but we have no iron our iron levels are

30:36.9

30:42.5

essentially non-existent so my pH is
good my iron is good I don’t have a

30:42.5

30:47.3

residual in a perfect world I’d get all
three and it’d be a hat-trick but I have

30:47.3

30:52.3

no iron so I’m happy in some systems we
get it and it’s it’s hot pink at that

30:52.3

30:56.2

point and why it is Messiah and why it
isn’t with others honestly there’s a

30:56.2

30:58.7

whole slew of potential scenarios there
that

30:58.7

31:03.7

could go through whether it was steam
consumption or that were just still you

31:03.7

31:08.2

know there’s some Dudley somewhere that
we’ve just continued to work out and

31:08.2

31:11.6

chip away out and chip away on and rip
way out it because that area is there

31:11.6

31:17.1

we’ve yet to see a residual right but
ultimately we have no metal our

31:17.1

31:22.0

corrosion rates are good so we’re happy
so that’s my preference in endpoint of

31:22.0

31:28.8

of sampling and looking at have we fully
coded a system the reason that I say

31:28.8

31:34.4

sample coolers are a best friend is two
reasons person for most it’s a safety

31:34.4

31:37.7

issue and I know how have you are
laughing at me right now they like oh my

31:37.7

31:41.2

gosh lady if I could only get my
customer to put on a sample cooler just

31:41.2

31:46.7

remember that hands you really only get
the two and I just want you to burn

31:46.7

31:51.2

yourself it’s just a safety issue
totally get it and thank you for the

31:51.2

31:56.3

public service announcement I think they
should come as a requirement with every

31:56.3

32:00.6

boiler because we’re dealing with a lot
of these things and they’re hot it just

32:00.6

32:05.4

makes sense so thank you for saying that
that’s part of it is you know take care

32:05.4

32:10.1

of your hands you only get the one set
the other piece is is that we’re talking

32:10.1

32:15.6

about volatile chemistry so if you catch
a hot see in pool there’s like steamy as

32:15.6

32:20.2

you’re catching it the potential for
loss of what you’re actually looking for

32:20.2

32:25.9

is there and the test for one of the
limitations of the test is that it needs

32:25.9

32:29.7

to be cooled for you to actually be able
to run the samples they have to go down

32:29.7

32:34.2

so if you have an open container and
it’s allowed to sit there and vent and

32:34.2

32:38.2

cool off so that you don’t burn your
hands and so that your test will

32:38.2

32:42.0

function there is potential for loss
there of what you’re actually looking

32:42.0

32:46.4

for maybe you have residual and maybe
can just solve a pearlized off there’s a

32:46.4

32:52.5

level of control in elimination of
variables that is my preference to

32:52.5

32:57.1

observe and that is one of them is that
you’ll be able to catch examples

32:57.1

33:00.2

ultimately what you’ll do to is you’ll
film your sample cooler you’ll protect

33:00.2

33:03.4

your sham cooler anyway so that’s my
preference there and the reality is

33:03.4

33:07.1

catching a sample speaking the
limitations of the test catching a

33:07.1

33:09.2

sample with the tests that are currently
a

33:09.2

33:15.3

directly out of a boiler is beyond the
limits of those tests and so if you if

33:15.3

33:19.2

chemistry was just added right let’s say
it just made up and so chemistry was

33:19.2

33:23.0

just outed and you grab a sample out of
there and you look out and you’re like

33:23.0

33:27.9

oh man I am hot pink awesome I’m awesome
I don’t want you to have a false sense

33:27.9

33:31.6

of security over what the whole rest of
your system looks like and then think to

33:31.6

33:35.0

yourself oh I can just turn this down
right I can turn my chemical calm down

33:35.0

33:39.9

okay well yeah at that particular point
at dr. ticular moment it looked like you

33:39.9

33:44.0

had a lot you don’t you just dumped a
bunch in there however fast forward to

33:44.0

33:48.4

later in the day and your boiler has
been running and your filmers have been

33:48.4

33:52.1

filming and going up in your steam lines
and performing the functions that we now

33:52.1

33:56.3

understand them to perform maybe it lets
you catch a boiler sample and it looks

33:56.3

33:59.5

like there’s nothing in there and you
think oh my gosh I need to turn my pump

33:59.5

34:04.0

up well maybe but what it is is your
system filmed is there iron in your

34:04.0

34:07.1

system maybe you don’t need to pump turn
your pump up it’s just that it’s already

34:07.1

34:12.9

gone and done its job so the other piece
is that often we just get if people

34:12.9

34:17.5

catch out of boilers we just get over
and able to read numbers because it’s

34:17.5

34:22.4

just beyond the range of what the test
is capable of or the tests huh plural or

34:22.4

34:27.3

capable of measuring so that makes sense
that makes perfect sense and I know you

34:27.3

34:32.7

and I had a discussion after my
presentation at the 2018 convention when

34:32.7

34:39.5

I did my paper on filming products in a
closed-loop system and we touched a

34:39.5

34:44.3

little bit on cooling towers but the big
part of my paper I think was how to

34:44.3

34:50.0

actually use the test and if you look at
and and they’re they’re what five

34:50.0

34:54.8

different manufacturers at least that
are making these amine tests and so

34:54.8

35:00.0

depending on which one you use I’ve
really found that I can get different

35:00.0

35:05.7

answers within the same test just
depending on how I tested it how long I

35:05.7

35:10.5

waited whether I use plastic whether I
use glass so I want to talk with you a

35:10.5

35:16.7

little bit around the test limitations
but then also get your opinion on what

35:16.7

35:20.3

I’ve come up with is I kind of use it as
a go know

35:20.3

35:25.8

go rather than I have this many parts
per million in the system sure so my

35:25.8

35:33.0

advice as a chemist is someone that
helps all different types of teams from

35:33.0

35:39.7

all different walks of life is pick a
method pick a method and go with it we

35:39.7

35:46.5

have to control as many variables again
as possible so if you have a team of

35:46.5

35:51.9

individuals and everybody has a Dr 900
then that’s going to be our method we’re

35:51.9

35:55.9

going to go with it where we’re going to
put together a really basic simple

35:55.9

36:00.0

sampling procedure so that everybody’s
catching the same types of samples

36:00.0

36:04.5

everybody’s using exactly what you said
pick a class where I don’t care what you

36:04.5

36:10.5

want to use but pick one and go with it
because what that allows not just your

36:10.5

36:15.7

vendors to do as far as helping with
troubleshooting but also allows the

36:15.7

36:18.4

people you said the guys that are coming
up with the different testing

36:18.4

36:26.5

methodologies is it will provide them an
adequate sample size and an own sampling

36:26.5

36:30.6

method but you know within a certain
team or within a certain set of teams

36:30.6

36:36.9

then they can make in analytical
decisions on how to improve their if

36:36.9

36:42.3

everybody on the planet does it a
different way and some guys use glass

36:42.3

36:47.5

and some guys use nail genes and some
guys use Teflon and some guys cap them

36:47.5

36:50.7

and some guys done and sometimes it’s
hot and sometimes it’s cold and just

36:50.7

36:56.3

pick every available scenario under Sun
all it does is leave us sitting there

36:56.3

37:00.3

going well
you know 60% of the time it works every

37:00.3

37:09.6

time and I don’t feel like that helps
any of us functionally move forward so

37:09.6

37:14.0

pick a sampling technique have you guys
use the same method whether they use

37:14.0

37:18.4

comment’ Rix’s tests or aqua phoenix
test or if they get a test kit from

37:18.4

37:24.6

masters i don’t care
pick one have your vendor help write up

37:24.6

37:29.2

a really basic sampling technique if you
don’t have one make sure you all have

37:29.2

37:33.7

one all you guys need the same thing
everybody can execute it in

37:33.7

37:38.7

same way and then we can start
collecting information on success and

37:38.7

37:43.1

failure and if we get to a certain point
where with a specific method and a

37:43.1

37:49.9

specific team where it’s that one’s just
not working or we continue to see result

37:49.9

37:55.6

X then we can address the situation with
no many means and everything to do with

37:55.6

37:59.6

operation you’re right and I’ve told
people it’s better to be consistently

37:59.6

38:05.7

wrong than not consistent sure because
what it allows us to do then is figure

38:05.7

38:12.3

out an avenue of change to find a better
option no that’s a great point

38:12.3

38:17.2

so I think we’ve covered a lot about
boilers but we did skip over a section

38:17.2

38:22.9

that I’d like to go back to so we’re now
getting ready to put the chemistry on so

38:22.9

38:27.8

is there a difference between the final
part per million that needs to be in the

38:27.8

38:33.8

system and the initial dosage there’s a
couple of ways we can approach dosing

38:33.8

38:39.9

and really it depends on the experience
that the water treaty has with filming

38:39.9

38:44.8

amines right and it depends on when you
do that system inventory when you

38:44.8

38:47.9

determine your kpi’s in beginning and
what we’re getting ourselves into in

38:47.9

38:55.2

this process it depends on really those
items okay so my initial mantra for

38:55.2

39:03.3

everyone who is new to filming amines or
and/or I should say has an own fouled

39:03.3

39:10.1

system is slow and low your vendors
gonna give you a target dose I’m gonna

39:10.1

39:14.5

make up numbers for easy mass let’s say
that target dose is a thousand parts per

39:14.5

39:19.7

million and at a thousand parts per
million we feel comfortable saying in

39:19.7

39:23.7

ninety percent of the situations 90
percent of boilers at a thousand parts

39:23.7

39:29.4

per million of product that we can
effectively treat an entire system when

39:29.4

39:33.0

you first bring the chemistry on when
you turn the one set of pumps off and

39:33.0

39:37.6

turn on you’re filming a main product
pump my advice in a known file system or

39:37.6

39:42.5

if you’re new to filming technology is
cut that in half cut that down to 500

39:42.5

39:47.2

parts per million because it’s going to
do exactly what we’ve discussed it

39:47.2

39:52.0

going to remote belies corrosion
material it’s going to start picking it

39:52.0

39:57.2

scales all of that’s going to come off
and what we don’t want to have happen is

39:57.2

40:03.2

for that to all of that to move into
like a steam trap or a low flow area or

40:03.2

40:08.8

an elbow or pick something and then just
sit there right we don’t want to move so

40:08.8

40:15.7

much so fast that the rate of remobilize
ation supersedes the rate that we can

40:15.7

40:20.9

blow it down and get it out of a system
so that comes to the other point in the

40:20.9

40:25.1

art slow and low mantra and that is
blowdown blow it down blow it down you

40:25.1

40:29.2

got to get it out of there it’s good
what we’re doing but we don’t want it

40:29.2

40:33.0

just like I said we don’t want to just
leave extra surface area in there it’s

40:33.0

40:35.7

exactly that we don’t want to leave that
in there we don’t want interactions

40:35.7

40:39.7

occurring where we don’t want them we
want it to clean and film surfaces so

40:39.7

40:46.2

low it down and start at half if it’s an
extraordinary messy system I would say

40:46.2

40:50.9

even cut it in 1/4 so I’d say maybe
started 250 parts per million if our

40:50.9

40:54.6

thousand thousand parts per million
scenario is still holding right started

40:54.6

40:59.0

250 and what you’re gonna watch even
with all your extra blowdown is you’re

40:59.0

41:02.2

gonna watch your iron or your metal of
interest you’re going to watch it climb

41:02.2

41:06.2

right so you’re gonna have done a
baseline measurement of whatever your

41:06.2

41:10.8

iron rate is at that moment before you
start the chemistry on and then you’re

41:10.8

41:15.5

gonna turn it on to either 50% of your
theoretical loading or you’re going to

41:15.5

41:18.4

turn it on to a quarter of your
theoretical loading your watch your iron

41:18.4

41:21.7

high you’re gonna want to climb you want
it to climb and your watch time and

41:21.7

41:25.1

you’re gonna call your vendor and say
what gives how is this happening and

41:25.1

41:27.8

they’re gonna say take a deep breath
it’s gonna be fine I’ll hold your hand I

41:27.8

41:31.8

promise and sometimes you do need to
hold water treaters hands that stuff is

41:31.8

41:37.7

scary scary and I have to tell you as a
vendor being however many miles away

41:37.7

41:41.6

with as much experience as I have with
this stuff even though I trust it

41:41.6

41:47.3

there’s a part of me that never wants to
put anyone in a position where they

41:47.3

41:51.2

could potentially look bad I don’t ever
want to hear a call where they’re like I

41:51.2

41:56.0

need you to talk to my end user because
they’re freaking out on me right I don’t

41:56.0

42:00.3

want that for you so preparing you and
then preparing your end

42:00.3

42:04.6

for the cleanup process is vital just
communicate with them just talk to him

42:04.6

42:09.3

let know it’s coming and and your vendor
should be happy and willing to walk in

42:09.3

42:13.8

there with you and communicate as well
right nobody just send you in there

42:13.8

42:19.6

alone if need be so you’re gonna watch
our iron level climb and we’re just

42:19.6

42:23.8

gonna hold steady with that dosing right
and then we’re gonna blow down blow down

42:23.8

42:26.9

blow down and then we’re gonna start to
watch the water clear up we’re gonna

42:26.9

42:33.2

watch the iron level start to drop and
as it starts to drop as our our numbers

42:33.2

42:38.6

improve we’re actually going to increase
our dose so if we were at a quarter of

42:38.6

42:41.7

the theoretical loading at two hundred
and fifty parts of product we’re gonna

42:41.7

42:45.5

bunk to five hundred or if we were
sitting happiest five hundred and we

42:45.5

42:49.4

start to see the iron number come down
we’re gonna bomb to a thousand okay and

42:49.4

42:55.2

when that happens we may or may not see
another blip in iron we may and we may

42:55.2

42:59.8

or may not see another a bit of a jump
typically what we see is just our iron

42:59.8

43:03.3

level continues to drop it drops and it
drops and it drops and it drops and

43:03.3

43:07.2

drops into tulta mately we reach some
sort of asymptote right we level off the

43:07.2

43:11.5

magical world it would just go to nothin
which honestly we’ve seen quite a few

43:11.5

43:18.9

times so when that point hits right when
we when we hit our theoretical dose and

43:18.9

43:23.5

we have no iron in our system we start
looking at other parameters we start

43:23.5

43:27.2

looking for okay do we see a residual
yet maybe you will maybe you want then

43:27.2

43:32.5

start looking what’s our pH have we have
we stabilized our pH how we stabilized

43:32.5

43:36.6

our iron here’s the deal it’s all the
while through this process and bringing

43:36.6

43:41.5

it on slow and low we’re not just gonna
bring it on and then completely walk

43:41.5

43:46.2

away we’re gonna have whatever our key
performance indicators are as you go

43:46.2

43:50.6

back and do your service monthly as we
go through this cleanup process and then

43:50.6

43:54.5

ultimately and I know we’ll talk about a
minute into like a more maintenance

43:54.5

44:01.1

phase of operating track all these
things track the iron what is your water

44:01.1

44:04.2

quality look like are you clear and
colorless did you turn into coffee

44:04.2

44:07.5

grounds and then did you return back to
clear colorless

44:07.5

44:12.0

were you looking like carrot juice and
then got to clear and color this I just

44:12.0

44:18.3

track it over time so that you have one
markers for success for yourself

44:18.3

44:21.7

but two you have markers for success
that you can share with your customer to

44:21.7

44:25.3

show that no look I understand you know
that this doesn’t look it’s great at the

44:25.3

44:28.0

moment but look at what we’re actually
doing look at the direction that we’re

44:28.0

44:34.4

progressing in so that’s my slow and low
how we operate your other option if it’s

44:34.4

44:38.9

brand new or truly you’re in a really
clean environment you know the system

44:38.9

44:44.6

that you’re in you you know how its
operating and you know you’ve got a

44:44.6

44:48.4

really strong handle on the water
chemistry there and you just want to

44:48.4

44:52.0

switch to filming means because that’s
you know you’re trying to work on their

44:52.0

44:56.4

profitability count or whatever
pick your favorite reason then if you

44:56.4

45:03.6

feel comfortable hitting it harder
starting in at the theoretical dose you

45:03.6

45:07.4

may have to initially spend a little bit
more more time at that facility but

45:07.4

45:11.1

hitting it hard in the beginning and
then ultimately what you’ll see is just

45:11.1

45:17.5

a rate of turnover faster as long as we
don’t mobilize too much too fast that’s

45:17.5

45:22.8

all great advice I can tell you the
first time I used the filming Amin

45:22.8

45:26.7

product it was several years ago we
didn’t have a lot of information out

45:26.7

45:30.8

about it somebody asked me to try this
it was a brand new system but there was

45:30.8

45:35.6

a lot of flash rusting that went on
inside it so we put the product in at

45:35.6

45:41.1

the maximum level because that’s what we
were told to do and I really thought we

45:41.1

45:47.1

just purchased that customer’s boiler I
was so upset that boiler it went from

45:47.1

45:51.6

red to black I mean it was it was just
horrible and then in about three days

45:51.6

45:56.2

time it went crystal clear we did
exactly what you said we were blowing

45:56.2

46:02.5

down and today I mean that’s probably
been eight years that boiler looks

46:02.5

46:09.4

pristine yeah which is what we see but I
do respect and fully grasp the fact that

46:09.4

46:13.1

when you first bring it on and you see
something like that and it is new to you

46:13.1

46:16.4

that moment of Terror where you like
what have I done

46:16.4

46:20.2

no and all I can say is you’re totally
normal

46:20.2

46:26.1

that everyone I cannot tell you how many
people I have spoken with how many

46:26.1

46:29.9

different teams I was bugged with it
there like the first time we did it we

46:29.9

46:34.3

thought oh gosh this was a terrible
decision you know but now they’re like

46:34.3

46:35.7

now they understand what we’re getting
into

46:35.7

46:40.3

and we just this is this is normal it’s
very status Club there’s there’s an

46:40.3

46:45.4

unfamiliar T in change or in the unknown
and that inherently makes people

46:45.4

46:48.9

uncomfortable
absolutely merridy are there any systems

46:48.9

46:53.3

are any conditions that you know of that
you would say you know you don’t want to

46:53.3

47:00.9

use this product for that if you’re
corrosion is truly kind of holding the

47:00.9

47:07.0

system together that not a good fit
because the filming amines really don’t

47:07.0

47:11.2

care they will just continue to scrub
whatever loose debris they can until

47:11.2

47:15.8

they get to a surface that they want to
stay attached to and we could end up

47:15.8

47:22.4

with a problem if you are in a months
through system unless we are solving a

47:22.4

47:27.9

problem right unless we’re saving
someone a pump every couple of years

47:27.9

47:32.3

that they were having to repurchase so
unless there’s some sort of issue that

47:32.3

47:37.4

we can really fix I would say once
through systems are with filming

47:37.4

47:43.2

technology expensive so for a program
that’s running well and your corrosion

47:43.2

47:47.1

rates are good but you don’t really have
a great return I would say that this is

47:47.1

47:52.3

maybe not your best option really in a
boiler and those are my two Biggie’s

47:52.3

47:58.4

well Marodi we have just spoken so much
around boilers this has been such a

47:58.4

48:03.8

great conversation I know that the
Scaling UP! nation is more educated about

48:03.8

48:09.2

filming I mean products and boilers than
they have ever been before so thank you

48:09.2

48:14.6

so much for all of the examples you gave
all the information that you gave but I

48:14.6

48:18.6

feel like I kind of lied to the audience
in the beginning I said this was the

48:18.6

48:22.5

conclusion of our show I want to bring
you back for another week so we can talk

48:22.5

48:26.8

about other systems like cooling towers
and closed-loop systems are you good for

48:26.8

48:32.0

that and ready when you are ready all
right well thank you so much for

48:32.0

48:35.5

spending so much time
the Scaling UP! nation and Scaling UP!

48:35.5

48:41.6

nation we will come back next week for
our final it has to be our final one I

48:41.6

48:44.7

know it’s going to be our final one
because I’m not going to spend any more

48:44.7

48:48.2

of Marodi’s time thank you so much
again for all the time that you’re

48:48.2

48:57.9

spending so scout out nation we will
catch you next week on Scaling UP! h2o

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