Scaling UP! H2O

97 Transcript

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0:08.1

0:12.7

welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast where
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we

0:12.7

0:16.9

don’t Scaling UP! our systems
hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore

0:16.9

0:22.3

here your host for Scaling UP! h2o and
folks it seems like we have an

0:22.3

0:28.1

impossible job we are keeping things
from corroding that want to corrode we

0:28.1

0:32.8

are keeping things from coming out of
solution that want to come out of

0:32.8

0:37.9

solution we’re keeping things from
growing biologically in our systems that

0:37.9

0:44.5

want to grow in the systems and then we
have to deal with all the dirt and

0:44.5

0:50.2

debris that comes in to our water
systems well folks you’ve heard me say

0:50.2

0:57.6

this and our job is we are heat transfer
efficiency managers no matter what it

0:57.6

1:04.7

says on your business card your job is
heat transfer efficiency management

1:04.7

1:12.1

everything else we do is just a bonus
because our simple job is heat transfer

1:12.1

1:18.0

efficiency management now I said simple
but there is nothing simple about that

1:18.0

1:23.3

and folks if you’ve ever seen me present
at the Association Water Technologies or

1:23.3

1:29.6

another venue you know I always talk to
the audience about how they should talk

1:29.6

1:34.7

to the customer about heat transfer
efficiency and water treatment is one of

1:34.7

1:39.5

those things that every customer wants
to know what the price is and how they

1:39.5

1:44.3

can get the price down but that really
doesn’t matter water treatment is cheap

1:44.3

1:50.9

when we do our jobs and that is making
sure that that equipment that we are

1:50.9

1:55.3

treating were called water treaters but
we’re really equipment treaters when

1:55.3

2:00.9

that equipment is clean and it can run
as efficient as possible our water

2:00.9

2:06.2

treatment costs are miniscule when you
compare it side-by-side with the water

2:06.2

2:12.1

savings we can provide and especially
the energy savings that we can provide

2:12.1

2:18.1

so I encourage you always look at
yourself as a heat transfer efficiency

2:18.1

2:24.1

managers and make sure that your client
sees you that way too well one of the

2:24.1

2:28.9

four items that I mentioned at the top
of the show was filtration now

2:28.9

2:34.8

filtration is the non-chemical part of
what we do it’s the synergy where

2:34.8

2:40.9

mechanical meets chemistry and it has to
be there in order for us to be a heat

2:40.9

2:46.8

transfer efficiency manager and do that
job well I have found when I speak with

2:46.8

2:53.3

other water treaters that filtration is
one of those things that is just very

2:53.3

3:00.1

misunderstood I had the opportunity to
meet an expert in filtration I love

3:00.1

3:05.5

having this podcast I have had the
opportunity to meet so many people in

3:05.5

3:10.0

the water treatment industry and I got
to tell you folks I’m learning right

3:10.0

3:15.7

along with you so again if you know
somebody that I need to interview let me

3:15.7

3:21.4

know because I love meeting other
experts new experts in the industry

3:21.4

3:27.6

because we are all learning together and
this show is not going to disappoint I

3:27.6

3:34.1

promise that you will come away looking
at filtration a little bit differently

3:34.1

3:40.5

and have more knowledge for you to talk
with your customers and help them make

3:40.5

3:47.3

better decisions well folks let’s
welcome Brian Hayward my lab partner

3:47.3

3:52.5

today is Brian Hayward and Brian I am
very excited to talk to you today I

3:52.5

3:57.4

talked about filtration a lot on this
show and it’s so awesome to have an

3:57.4

4:03.1

expert about filtration on how are you
today Brian oh I’m great trace and

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4:07.2

thanks a lot for having me I’m happy to
be here well I am happy that you are

4:07.2

4:12.8

here as well I think filtration is one
of those things that is either totally

4:12.8

4:16.9

understood by a water treatment
professional or totally misunderstood

4:16.9

4:21.9

there’s very much gray area between that
so I’m hoping with today’s show we can

4:21.9

4:25.9

help a whole bunch of people in the
Scaling UP! nation are you ready for that

4:25.9

4:30.8

I hope so
awesome wait how about you tell the

4:30.8

4:33.8

Scaling UP! nation a little bit about
yourself as we

4:33.8

4:39.0

started sure I’m a chemical engineer
graduate and then I got into water

4:39.0

4:44.0

treatment within a couple of years of
getting out of college and I work for a

4:44.0

4:48.9

major water treatment worldwide water
treatment company for a number of years

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4:54.5

and then I went to work as sales manager
for a regional water treatment company

4:54.5

5:01.3

and I did that for a little over
thirteen years so I am basically a water

5:01.3

5:08.0

treatable filtration I can’t think of a
better person to be on this episode for

5:08.0

5:11.8

that reason yeah I’m pretty cut that’s
it I’m comfortable in the world and I do

5:11.8

5:16.6

understand what’s important for a water
treated under stand there is a filter

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5:21.5

person when I come in there I the first
thing I ask any potential customers

5:21.5

5:26.6

who’s the water treater what’s his name
and what’s her name and phone number

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5:30.9

and I get a hold of the water treat
explain Who I am what I’m doing there

5:30.9

5:35.7

and I asked the waters reader to work
with me and see if we can’t help the

5:35.7

5:41.3

customer out in the process and so
that’s really important because water

5:41.3

5:46.3

treaters are pretty sensitive to the
fact of anybody coming in there and

5:46.3

5:50.1

starting to tell their customer what
they need to do with their water so I

5:50.1

5:54.6

think it’s yeah I think it’s important
too and it’s important for the waters

5:54.6

5:59.6

for you to work with a filter person and
communicate with them and find somebody

5:59.6

6:04.7

they can trust because it’s so important
they have a trusting relationship for it

6:04.7

6:12.0

all work out so after Brian one of the
doctrines that I’ve always lived by in

6:12.0

6:16.9

water treatment is that every system
needs filtration how do you feel about

6:16.9

6:22.1

that well as a why as a Sales Manager in
a water treatment company what happened

6:22.1

6:26.5

to me is when these high-efficiency
filtration systems first came out in the

6:26.5

6:32.2

New England area when I dealt with
problems with water treatment customers

6:32.2

6:37.4

it’s almost always open up a chiller
open up a process piece of equipment

6:37.4

6:41.4

there’s deposition there’s corrosion
everything’s plugged up and everybody’s

6:41.4

6:47.4

mad so that’s usually the problem that I
that caused most of my

6:47.4

6:52.2

wata treaters that work for me to lose
their customers little by little when

6:52.2

6:57.2

people decided to put filters on the
cooling water system suddenly a water

6:57.2

7:02.7

treaty could kind of not do a perfect
job and frequently that is the water

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7:06.6

treaters only there maybe once a month
or once a week the customers the one

7:06.6

7:09.8

responsible for maintaining the chemical
levels and when they don’t do their job

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7:15.9

they blame the water treat so clean
water makes the water treatment

7:15.9

7:21.8

chemistry work so much more easily it
kind of clears everything out so the

7:21.8

7:28.4

chemistry can do its job so I told all
of my guys that they should tell all of

7:28.4

7:32.1

their customers to get filters on their
cooling towers because it made more

7:32.1

7:36.2

money for the water treaters basically
we didn’t lose anywhere near as many

7:36.2

7:40.8

clients if they had clean water well
there’s definitely a mechanical leg of

7:40.8

7:44.5

what we do as a water treatment
professional where whether we’re using

7:44.5

7:50.1

chemical products or something else to
treat the water we have to have that

7:50.1

7:54.8

mechanical removal of all these
particles that just play havoc in our

7:54.8

7:58.7

system and they make it so it’s
impossible for us to do what we are

7:58.7

8:06.2

hired to do so let’s say that I am at a
cooling tower and I’m trying to decide

8:06.2

8:13.1

what filter needs to go on or let me
even move back further how do I even

8:13.1

8:21.2

know that I need a filter on that
cooling tower okay the the basic concept

8:21.2

8:27.3

with cooling towers I think as we all
know is that they pass water across air

8:27.3

8:32.7

large volumes of air and it allows the
water to evaporate and cool the water

8:32.7

8:37.6

from 95 degrees to 85 degrees or so so
we have to put a lot of air through

8:37.6

8:43.4

water usually most often contamination
and cooling water systems comes from the

8:43.4

8:48.6

particles that are washed out of the air
so any cooling tower is continually

8:48.6

8:53.5

washing dirt out of the air and it
depends on what environment you’re in

8:53.5

8:58.1

how bad that
deposition convenient it also depends on

8:58.1

9:01.8

a lot of like things like cycles of
concentration that you maintain and

9:01.8

9:08.1

things like that but generally a cooling
tower needs to have a filter to pull out

9:08.1

9:12.8

the particulate in there Brian let’s say
there’s a water treat or and he’s

9:12.8

9:17.8

relatively new to the water treatment
industry and he’s right there looking at

9:17.8

9:23.1

the cooling tower and he’s trying to
determine not only if a filter is needed

9:23.1

9:28.8

but how to have that conversation with
his customer what should he do well I

9:28.8

9:33.9

think that usually a customer has to
believe that there is a problem that

9:33.9

9:37.8

needs to be fixed he’s not going to
spend money on a piece of equipment a

9:37.8

9:43.2

filter unless he determines that there’s
a problem that needs to be fixed so if

9:43.2

9:48.3

this is my account and I’m going in
there to look at the cooling tower maybe

9:48.3

9:53.1

looking in the sump to see what that
looks like or looking at a history of

9:53.1

9:59.3

corrosion coupon analysis where is there
any evidence that deposition is causing

9:59.3

10:05.5

a problem with the customer when he
brushes his tubes once a year shut down

10:05.5

10:10.1

work that most people have other tubes
do they have that little slimy feel in

10:10.1

10:16.8

them because biofilm that is the main
cause of problems in cooling systems

10:16.8

10:21.3

with deposition because that’s where all
of the bacteria grows and nucleation

10:21.3

10:26.6

from or settling things like that and it
builds up a film on the on the tube

10:26.6

10:31.0

surfaces or the heat transfer surfaces
and so if you rub that surface it may

10:31.0

10:36.0

look clear because biofilms are
generally clear but if it’s a little bit

10:36.0

10:39.6

slimy then you’ve got a slime on there
that’s like putting a blanket on the

10:39.6

10:45.6

heat transfer surface so it’s along the
lines of finding out from your customer

10:45.6

10:50.3

what their attitude is about the current
situation with particulates in their

10:50.3

10:55.6

system and then explaining to them why
there is a problem that needs to be

10:55.6

10:59.4

fixed by the use of filtration I know
we’re going to talk a little bit later

10:59.4

11:05.1

about ROI and how we can show that
customer that an investment today will

11:05.1

11:09.3

pay them back in the near future but
before we

11:09.3

11:14.6

to that I know there are a lot of terms
out there that deal in the filtration

11:14.6

11:20.1

industry I was hoping that we could
define some of those terms and one of

11:20.1

11:28.4

them is laser particle laser particle
analysis is the use of a analytical

11:28.4

11:35.5

machine to send laser beams across water
that reflect and you can tell like the

11:35.5

11:40.8

size of particles and how many there are
so water treatment companies often have

11:40.8

11:47.1

a particle analyzer or you can send the
particle and out the water sample out to

11:47.1

11:52.9

a lab that has a particle analyzer one
of the things about particle analyzers

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11:58.5

is the ones that are most frequently
used cost maybe eight or ten thousand

11:58.5

12:03.3

dollars and they are not particularly
accurate

12:03.3

12:10.9

the ones that are accurate cost maybe
$50,000 or $100,000 so there is a bit of

12:10.9

12:18.0

a problem in actual the actual
technology as far as the accuracy goes

12:18.0

12:23.2

but using if you use the five thousand
dollar particle analyzer you’ll get a

12:23.2

12:27.7

certain read if you put a filter on the
system that weeding will drop way down

12:27.7

12:32.4

and you’ll be able to show the major
removal of particulate so any particle

12:32.4

12:37.8

analyzer will get you the basics
well Brian my question is if we’re going

12:37.8

12:43.4

to sell a filter for a cooling tower is
it absolutely necessary that we have

12:43.4

12:49.8

this analysis done no I usually get it
done just because of my personality I

12:49.8

12:55.4

think I want to know what’s in there and
so it’s not absolutely necessary

12:55.4

13:01.2

particle analysis done most of the time
customer

13:01.2

13:07.4

water treatment customer would make the
decision to buy a filter when he

13:07.4

13:12.9

understands the concept of film
formation on heat transfer services and

13:12.9

13:19.5

the cost of that to him that those those
that approach to dealing with whether or

13:19.5

13:24.0

not I should buy a filter is the key to
getting a filter purchased by a customer

13:24.0

13:29.3

that’s where all the real big money is
transfer efficiency so that’s always

13:29.3

13:34.7

where I head so if you can convince the
customer that they’re paying for this

13:34.7

13:40.4

rather if they realize it or not and the
sooner that they get something to take

13:40.4

13:44.2

all these particles out so they don’t
settle and make their heat transfer

13:44.2

13:48.5

equipment less efficient they’re gonna
start realizing the gain from that

13:48.5

13:53.2

equipment and I used to I used to
calculate that and I’ve got the formulas

13:53.2

13:57.8

for that everything that I’m happy to
like send over to you and you could

13:57.8

14:03.1

distribute it to two people and make
kind of a simple presentation of what

14:03.1

14:08.8

happens when you put biofilm formation
on a heat transfer surface

14:08.8

14:12.6

yeah absolutely I’m gonna take you up on
that we’ll put that on the show notes

14:12.6

14:16.7

page so that way the Scaling UP! nation
can go there and find that okay that

14:16.7

14:22.7

sounds good sure that’s laser particle
analysis usually the other terms of

14:22.7

14:28.1

particle volume particle count surface
area told you suspended solids these are

14:28.1

14:34.3

pretty confusing subjects that you know
that you get when you get a particle

14:34.3

14:39.9

analysis result that can be pretty
confusing and to the customer hand to

14:39.9

14:44.8

the water treated because that’s easily
understood particle volume is the total

14:44.8

14:49.7

volume of of all the particles that are
in the water if you squish it all

14:49.7

14:53.6

together and make all those particles
into one ball that’s the wall you

14:53.6

14:59.9

particle volume the weight of that
particle that big agglomerated particle

14:59.9

15:07.0

that you measured the volume in cubic
microns the volume is the size of it but

15:07.0

15:12.9

the suspended solids measurement is the
weight of it so it’s that ball that you

15:12.9

15:17.9

just put together is made of iron
particles then the TSS is going to be

15:17.9

15:24.7

really high because it’s hard and it’s
heavy if that volume is made up of

15:24.7

15:29.5

pollen and soft materials that come
usually get blown in the air they’re all

15:29.5

15:35.9

usually really fine particles that pull
it around in the air that TSS of that

15:35.9

15:41.1

big ball because it’s really light
material it’s going to be very low so

15:41.1

15:47.2

it’s not the total suspended solids in a
cooling water system is not all that

15:47.2

15:53.0

clear on what’s going on so you want to
know what the total suspended solids

15:53.0

15:57.0

that but in most cooling towers the
solids are low because almost everything

15:57.0

16:05.2

in the water is very fine less than 5
microns and it’s usually softer kind of

16:05.2

16:09.3

material so you don’t get much TSS on a
cooling tower if you’ve got

16:09.3

16:14.9

contamination from the process if you’ve
got river water makeup then you’re gonna

16:14.9

16:20.0

get a lot of TSS and that’s that’s like
a whole different technical problem then

16:20.0

16:26.2

you’ve got significant outside
amination not yeah surface area is

16:26.2

16:31.6

another thing the only reason why I make
a point looking at surface area is that

16:31.6

16:38.3

when you have really fine particles the
surface area on each particle is is

16:38.3

16:42.3

significant and if you push that
particle together into a big particle

16:42.3

16:47.8

the surface area is just the outside of
that balaam rated particle so when you

16:47.8

16:52.5

got a big particle in a cooling tower
the surface area that is nowhere near as

16:52.5

16:58.9

big as a million half micron particles
and bacteria lives on those fine

16:58.9

17:05.1

particles so the more surface area the
more bacteria that’s why biofilm is so

17:05.1

17:09.2

aggressive is that these fine particles
settle and then the bacteria starts to

17:09.2

17:14.6

grow and you’ve got a problem Brian at
the time of this recording I am here in

17:14.6

17:18.7

the South I’m in Atlanta and we have a
pollen problem I don’t mind telling us

17:18.7

17:22.6

get on up nation that and it just wreaks
havoc on all of our cooling tower

17:22.6

17:28.5

systems so if we were to do one of these
laser particle analysis it’s going to be

17:28.5

17:33.6

different this month and say it will be
in September so what do you do about

17:33.6

17:39.9

that it’s a seasonal thing when I like
large clients that have the money to

17:39.9

17:45.3

have particle analyses periodically done
like once a quarter it’s really a

17:45.3

17:50.6

seasonal thing everything changes every
season in any significant system whether

17:50.6

17:54.2

it’s because of the pollen count or
whether it’s because of the temperatures

17:54.2

17:59.2

outside the winter cold weather is going
to have generally gonna have less

17:59.2

18:04.4

particulate in it and less problems with
the water the load on the system is

18:04.4

18:08.6

usually lower in the winter so you’ve
got a the total volume of air going

18:08.6

18:13.0

through a system to be washed out it’s
going to be smaller in the winter in the

18:13.0

18:17.3

spring a lot of times people open up all
kinds of systems that were closed all

18:17.3

18:21.0

winter and when that happens is
frequently a lot of material coming in

18:21.0

18:27.4

so to me there’s always ups and valleys
and jumping way up on particles and way

18:27.4

18:31.2

down with particles the trick is if
you’ve got a filter on there when the

18:31.2

18:36.0

particle loading goes up fairly quickly
a filter within days the filter will

18:36.0

18:40.9

clean up the particulate Lodi bring it
right back the ground 0k well let’s talk

18:40.9

18:46.6

about that next so we now have our
analysis and now it’s time to help

18:46.6

18:52.9

choose the right filtration for our
customer what is that process well I

18:52.9

18:57.6

think it depends on what filter company
you represent so I mean I think

18:57.6

19:03.6

everybody’s got their own points of view
on this people like me I’ve always

19:03.6

19:09.6

worked with high-efficiency filtration
which is filtration of like five micron

19:09.6

19:16.0

and smaller particulate because of the
perception and belief by people like me

19:16.0

19:20.3

the really fine particles are what
caused the problems of cooling water

19:20.3

19:25.8

systems and so that’s what that’s what
most of the particulate is when you do a

19:25.8

19:29.6

particle analysis you’ll see that
there’s millions of particles in the

19:29.6

19:36.3

half micron to two micron range or maybe
thousands or you know hundreds in the 25

19:36.3

19:43.0

micron range so the particles that are
larger than 10 microns or so don’t float

19:43.0

19:48.4

around in the water much they settle in
the self I think the most popular

19:48.4

19:53.9

filtrations that I’ve seen on cooling
towers are either a sand filter or a

19:53.9

19:58.5

centrifugal separator do you mind
talking about what the differences are

19:58.5

20:06.3

between those two sure a centrifugal
separator is a mechanical unit that

20:06.3

20:12.8

depends on spinning the water in causing
a centrifugal force to go outside and

20:12.8

20:17.5

the particulate goes out and then long
rides together and drops down the bottom

20:17.5

20:22.8

it comes out generally a centrifugal
separator is going to take out 70 micron

20:22.8

20:29.2

particles so those are fairly large
particles you’re not removing any of the

20:29.2

20:34.7

pollen for example any of the fine
particulate with a cyclone separator

20:34.7

20:40.2

centrifugal separators so I want to
treat or generally don’t recommend them

20:40.2

20:46.5

but problem is that they’re the least
expensive way for a customer to feel

20:46.5

20:49.8

like he’s removing particulate from this
cooling system

20:49.8

20:54.2

those particles are settling in the sump
normally and the sump is actually the

20:54.2

20:58.9

design in the cooling tower it’s a
design for stagnant water below the

20:58.9

21:03.0

cooling tower so that the particles will
settle in the heavy particles will

21:03.0

21:07.1

settle in the sump and they don’t get
blown around through the system and get

21:07.1

21:13.6

on heat transfer surfaces so is this the
centrifugal separator is not the ideal

21:13.6

21:19.0

for water tree it’s not going to improve
your water tree sand filters are

21:19.0

21:26.4

generally two types most of the sand
filters if the basic type of sand filter

21:26.4

21:33.0

is a point five five millimeter sand
media that’s what a unigram 55 is and

21:33.0

21:39.7

usually that’s the finest sand particle
size that you would put in a single

21:39.7

21:44.6

media or multi media filter because when
you push water straight down through a

21:44.6

21:52.0

filter the spaces in between doesn’t
them sand is where the particulate gets

21:52.0

21:58.6

trapped and if you have true fineness
and then the top surface of the sand

21:58.6

22:02.7

plugs up right away and you keep back
washing all the time so filter media

22:02.7

22:07.7

sand filter manufacturers have had to
limit the fineness of their filtration

22:07.7

22:13.6

to something that’s practical so general
generally get like a point five five

22:13.6

22:20.8

millimeter sand particle will filter
down to around thirty microns which is a

22:20.8

22:28.8

lot better centrifugal separators and
because those larger particles produce a

22:28.8

22:35.6

lot of the turbidity appear it’s in
cooling water the water looks a lot

22:35.6

22:40.1

better when you put a traditional sand
filter on and that sand filth attrition

22:40.1

22:44.3

Santha that removes a significant amount
of particulate there’s no question about

22:44.3

22:49.5

that the high-efficiency filters are a
filter design

22:49.5

22:56.7

maybe it’s probably 50 years old now
those filters on the design of the high

22:56.7

23:01.7

efficient filter is they put 0.2
millimeter sand so that’s compared to

23:01.7

23:08.1

0.55 millimeters
so 0.2 is much finer if you put that

23:08.1

23:14.2

point two millimeter sand in a straight
normal media filter that filter will

23:14.2

23:19.6

plug up right away you can’t you can’t
use that fine saying so this guy I think

23:19.6

23:23.9

the first guy that came up with it was
in Western Mass and he did what he did

23:23.9

23:31.5

is he ran the water crosswise across the
filter bed which rushes the top surface

23:31.5

23:36.2

of the filter bed and instead of short
storing the particulate that’s removed

23:36.2

23:41.5

in the bed which it does in a
straight-through filter a centrifugal

23:41.5

23:48.0

force or cross flow type filter but the
cross flow type filter stores all of the

23:48.0

23:55.2

particulate up above the bed so when yet
during filtration high efficiency

23:55.2

24:01.0

filters are not plugging up the bed
you’re continually brushing the bed when

24:01.0

24:05.2

the area above the bed that’s true full
of particulate

24:05.2

24:10.9

the particulate starts to settle into
the media and the system needs to back

24:10.9

24:15.2

as the that’s the reason why high
efficiency works is because they’re

24:15.2

24:19.5

constantly brushing it’s creating
turbulence on the top of the boat the

24:19.5

24:25.5

bed so half my cologne filtration then
will significantly reduce the pollen

24:25.5

24:31.2

levels all the fine particulate and
biofilm formation so I’ve always liked

24:31.2

24:37.2

my efficient filters but any sand filter
is better than not and I will tell you

24:37.2

24:40.7

Brian we’re dealing with pollen right
now we have a lot of centrifugal

24:40.7

24:44.5

separators that were sold when the
cooling tower was sold to the client and

24:44.5

24:48.8

they do nothing for pollen so you are a
hundred percent right about that yeah

24:48.8

24:55.5

yeah I hate to spike that down play any
kind of anybody else’s equipment in

24:55.5

25:01.1

whatever but that the facts are at 70
micron for centrifugal 30 micron for

25:01.1

25:07.1

single media filter and 0.5 micron for
high-efficiency filter so it’s a

25:07.1

25:12.6

dramatically different result are there
any other filter media types that we

25:12.6

25:16.5

should be looking at for cooling towers
you know everyone’s a while I hear about

25:16.5

25:23.1

some other possible methods but I
haven’t seen anything yet that works the

25:23.1

25:26.9

company I work with has done a lot of
higher D in the last few years and we’ve

25:26.9

25:31.9

developed some designs that we improve
on the high-efficiency filtration

25:31.9

25:37.8

concept and we do have some you know
newer designs out but it’s still cross

25:37.8

25:43.9

flow Russian the top surface of the
media and using fine media I haven’t

25:43.9

25:47.3

heard of anything that works like that
now if you and I were working together

25:47.3

25:53.2

and we were making sure that we put the
right size high efficiency sand filter

25:53.2

25:57.5

on a particular cooling tower what kind
of questions would you be asking me the

25:57.5

26:03.5

the key is what’s what’s the GPM
recirculation rate on the cooling towel

26:03.5

26:07.9

what’s the total water that’s going to
float through the towel what’s the GPM

26:07.9

26:13.5

and you can get that somewhat from the
tonnage if a cooling tower and a cooling

26:13.5

26:18.3

tower designed for a 10-degree delta T
and it’s a

26:18.3

26:25.3

500 ton chiller then the design
convinced a water recirculation rate is

26:25.3

26:30.7

three times the tonnage which is like
1500 GPM but it’s good to go and look at

26:30.7

26:36.0

the pump at the cooling tower and see
what the GPM rating of the pump is and

26:36.0

26:40.5

then the question is if you’ve got
several cooling towers how often do they

26:40.5

26:47.0

all run what is the high low tide during
the warmer months of the year what’s the

26:47.0

26:52.8

percentage load on the cooling tower
because that will tell you what the

26:52.8

26:58.1

amount of bleed rate coming out of the
cooling tower is in order to maintain

26:58.1

27:02.8

particular cycles that the water
treaters got upset at well you bring up

27:02.8

27:08.4

an interesting point I know several
times we’ve been invited to a cooling

27:08.4

27:14.6

tower and install people just set it up
the way it comes out of the box and we

27:14.6

27:20.8

had to dial in the correct backwash
whether it was either on a time which I

27:20.8

27:24.1

don’t like or it was on pressure which I
do like more and I’m hoping you’ll talk

27:24.1

27:28.9

about that we had to dial that in
because we were not able to concentrate

27:28.9

27:34.6

the water up to where we knew that water
needed to be it was back washing more

27:34.6

27:39.3

than it really needed to and we weren’t
able to get the concentration ratio up

27:39.3

27:43.9

to where we wanted it until we made some
adjustments that’s a problem that occurs

27:43.9

27:52.8

when the tower filter uses the tower
water we’re back walk if you use city

27:52.8

27:57.3

water or clean water or any kind of
clean water into the cooling tower

27:57.3

28:03.1

traditional sand filtration should use
the city water and pump that back

28:03.1

28:07.7

through the filter to the drain to
backwash it so the only water you’re

28:07.7

28:11.9

using out of the cooling towers may be
that little bit of water in the top of

28:11.9

28:15.3

the tank when you’re going up the
backwash so that would sound to me like

28:15.3

28:20.8

a system that’s set up to backwash with
towel water Oh Brian I gotta tell you

28:20.8

28:26.0

I’ve never seen a system that has not
been set up to backwash with city water

28:26.0

28:30.3

it’s always been tower water so you are
teaching me something today

28:30.3

28:33.6

only they’re not installed that way so
what do we have to do as the water

28:33.6

28:38.1

treater to get them installed that way
or they’re extra valves that we need

28:38.1

28:44.9

tell us about that well okay so it
depends on who’s buying this build or

28:44.9

28:50.4

who’s working with the filtration
company if the water treater is coming

28:50.4

28:55.1

on on the scene after the purchase of
the filtration system has been made

28:55.1

29:03.5

that’s not a good plan to me I always
recommend city water backwash and in

29:03.5

29:09.8

fact I don’t kind of ever put a filter
on a cooling tower review that uses

29:09.8

29:15.1

coolant I lost a bet it could be just
locally the places where you are have

29:15.1

29:19.3

been sold by a particular filtration
company that doesn’t really know what

29:19.3

29:25.7

they’re doing I shouldn’t say it that
way but the if you never ever use

29:25.7

29:32.4

cooling tower water the backwash and so
when a filter is ordered what a treat ER

29:32.4

29:37.2

and the customer need to say to the
filter act this has to be clean water

29:37.2

29:43.7

back washing sometimes you take water
from the filtered water and put it into

29:43.7

29:49.8

a tank that will be enough to cover one
backwash and you keep that tank leveled

29:49.8

29:58.5

up with water from the filter but you
absolutely can’t use do you have to

29:58.5

30:02.1

worry about biological fouling when you
store water like that

30:02.1

30:06.3

well it’s only going to be there for a
day or so the filters designed that I

30:06.3

30:10.6

always recommend the Spyros backwash
goes because it needs to be set on a

30:10.6

30:15.4

time up to backwash once a day if it
hasn’t back washed in the last 24 hours

30:15.4

30:20.8

so it needs to backwash every 24 hours
and and the reason for that is that in

30:20.8

30:27.5

the in the media the particulate is in
there is full of bacteria and that if

30:27.5

30:31.4

you leave that bacteria in there for
three or four or five days we’re going

30:31.4

30:37.1

to plug up the filter bed in the filter
ass that has to be replaced so now

30:37.1

30:41.6

should be done a minimum of every 24
hours to be sure you don’t get bio

30:41.6

30:48.5

growth in the filter tab and then the
real control on backwash is whenever the

30:48.5

30:53.1

pressure differential gets up to a
limiting point the filter automatically

30:53.1

30:59.5

goes in the bathroom so generally the 24
hour backwash timer doesn’t even get

30:59.5

31:05.4

used but it needs to be there in case
something isn’t going right there it’s

31:05.4

31:10.1

got to be back washed every 20 bucks
now you mentioned media fouling so we

31:10.1

31:16.0

have regular backwash that’s cleaning
the media but now eventually the media

31:16.0

31:21.2

gets worn out we’ve got if we got to
replace it what is that process like and

31:21.2

31:27.2

how often should we be doing that if the
filters operated properly in that is 24

31:27.2

31:32.2

hour back washing that never goes more
than 24 hours then met most of the

31:32.2

31:37.0

filter beds that I work with go 10 years
without be able to flex you don’t need

31:37.0

31:42.7

to replace filter media if you don’t get
bio filming if the filters set up

31:42.7

31:48.1

properly in the beginning and everything
is all set then filter doesn’t need to

31:48.1

31:52.7

have the media replaced unless
somebody’s doing something they

31:52.7

31:58.6

shouldn’t be doing so that’s the key to
that but media when media is replaced

31:58.6

32:03.9

every maybe 10 years or whatever we
generally take an industrial vacuum

32:03.9

32:08.6

cleaner and suck the media either they
have all the water is still wet open the

32:08.6

32:13.6

cap let off the pressure open a cap let
it drain down to near the top surface of

32:13.6

32:17.3

the media and you use an industrial
vacuum just suck that stuff out of there

32:17.3

32:22.7

and put it in drums or barrels or
whatever and dispose of it and then the

32:22.7

32:30.0

new media is is poured back into the
filter we do that a lot it’s not a not a

32:30.0

32:34.3

particularly big project right
especially carried wet sand nobody

32:34.3

32:39.7

nobody enjoys that at the very bottom of
the filter itself they’ve got the

32:39.7

32:43.6

laterals and I know whenever you take
media out you’re supposed to inspect

32:43.6

32:50.9

those what are you looking for broken
laterals if those laterals are crack

32:50.9

32:55.3

a broken or severely plugged then you
need to deal with it you need to clean

32:55.3

33:02.0

them up or replace them in recent years
most everybody uses stainless steel mesh

33:02.0

33:08.7

as the laterals on the bottom of the
filter the older plastic design they’re

33:08.7

33:11.9

more likely to break but if you’ve done
everything correctly they don’t they

33:11.9

33:15.1

don’t break either so it’s just a matter
when you

33:15.1

33:20.2

I hardly ever have to replace laterals
they’re not it’s not but something you

33:20.2

33:24.4

need to look at because if your laterals
I broke and you liable to get media

33:24.4

33:28.2

flowing through your filter and out down
the drain

33:28.2

33:33.4

potentially even into the into the cool
toilet so it’s important that the

33:33.4

33:37.0

laterals be inspected and that they’re
okay which is why I generally use

33:37.0

33:41.8

stainless steel I don’t use plastic
that’s a great tip now I’ve worked with

33:41.8

33:47.3

people that say regardless of what the
manufacturer says and some manufacturers

33:47.3

33:51.7

say all you have to do is go back with
the sand media they say regardless of

33:51.7

33:56.6

that you should put some sort of support
media down in there first what are your

33:56.6

34:01.1

feelings on that well I just generally
would do what manufacturers say but I

34:01.1

34:07.8

think there’s always is always support
media gravel type material that’s used

34:07.8

34:11.5

to cover up the laterals to keep the
laterals you can get plugged up with

34:11.5

34:18.5

sand we have different layers of media
in the filter to keep the fine media

34:18.5

34:23.8

that is used for filtration away from
the laterals that’s that’s why you put

34:23.8

34:27.9

the stones in there in there and it
protects the laterals physically from

34:27.9

34:31.9

any damage because you got rocks on top
of everything now where is the best

34:31.9

34:37.7

place to install a sand filter on a
cooling tower our preference is to put

34:37.7

34:45.3

it on a recirculation line generally
like we put a stab in down stream and

34:45.3

34:50.1

bring that out to the filter run it
through the filter and put a stab in 6

34:50.1

34:56.1

feet or so downstream from that point
and what that does is it allows the

34:56.1

35:00.2

water that comes into the filter and
goes out of the filter the pressure on

35:00.2

35:05.0

the filter in and out is the same
because it’s on the line 6 feet

35:05.0

35:10.2

and so what that does is when you design
a filter you design it with a particular

35:10.2

35:14.4

pump in a particular head to get a
particular block gallons per minute

35:14.4

35:20.6

through the filter and so if you’ve got
varying pressures in and out of the

35:20.6

35:25.8

filter that means you have to add valves
adjust pressures and the rest and and

35:25.8

35:31.8

it’s very hard to control filter flow
rate through the filter unless you’ve

35:31.8

35:36.1

got pressure the same in and out of the
filter so that’s what we generally

35:36.1

35:38.9

design but you know there are when
things change

35:38.9

35:44.4

piling is it’s nice to have a filter
engineer kind of person there who’s

35:44.4

35:47.3

going to look at the thing and explain
what to do with everything water

35:47.3

35:53.1

treaters shouldn’t be responsible to
tell people how to do these things they

35:53.1

35:57.8

always go water treaters always go to me
and say okay how do we do this and I

35:57.8

36:01.8

explained to the person who’s installing
it exactly how they have to install it

36:01.8

36:06.0

and we provide drawings of the rest but
communication that’s really important

36:06.0

36:11.4

when something’s installed incorrectly a
filter will not work now I’ve seen the

36:11.4

36:16.2

use of sweeper jets around the cooling
tower Basin to try to keep things

36:16.2

36:22.4

stirred up can you speak a little around
that sure it’s it’s opinion I guess in

36:22.4

36:27.1

my mind the design of a cooling tower
sunk the reason why there’s this big

36:27.1

36:31.3

sump there that’s maybe 12 inches deep
or whatever the reason why that sump is

36:31.3

36:36.0

there is because when you bring a lot of
particulate into a cooling tower from

36:36.0

36:41.0

the air the bigger stuff you don’t want
it to go into the system you want it to

36:41.0

36:46.3

settle in some so blowing the water
around in the bottom of the sump to keep

36:46.3

36:51.2

the sump clear makes it look better to
the customer but you’re taking you’re

36:51.2

36:56.0

not removing the particulate you’re
sending it into the system and the idea

36:56.0

37:00.2

that you’re if you’ve got suction in the
sump and that you’re actually going to

37:00.2

37:06.3

be sucking the particulate out it’s just
not rational not technically accurate

37:06.3

37:13.2

it’s not when you create turbulence in
the sump the large you know thousand

37:13.2

37:17.2

gallon a minute flow rate out of the
bottom of that sump is taking all that

37:17.2

37:20.4

particulate out of there
your hundred gallon a minute filter is

37:20.4

37:26.0

not removable that particulate is going
where the flow rate is so it’s all going

37:26.0

37:31.4

in the system so technically I don’t
agree with using the sump sweep concept

37:31.4

37:37.8

it’s a it was a nice idea and it
actually helps people size filters

37:37.8

37:43.4

because they just do it based on if they
put a certain number of jets in the sump

37:43.4

37:48.3

of the cooling tower then the size of
the filter is defined by that it’s not

37:48.3

37:54.2

defined by the basic concept of like how
much particulate loading is there type

37:54.2

37:58.2

of system do you have the size of a
filter should not be defined based on

37:58.2

38:03.9

some sweep system I don’t ever recommend
some sweep system well the customer is

38:03.9

38:09.6

always looking at the bottom of the
cooling tower Basin and some look at it

38:09.6

38:14.2

more than others and I always say if
there’s any more than a quarter inch of

38:14.2

38:20.6

debris on that base and it is past due
for cleaning so the question is and the

38:20.6

38:26.1

customers going to ask this if I put
this filter on can I extend the amount

38:26.1

38:29.4

of time that I have to clean my sump or
some might even ask

38:29.4

38:33.3

can I just forgo cleaning my sump
altogether now that I have this

38:33.3

38:40.0

filtration yep that’s a good question
the the end result of doing this is that

38:40.0

38:45.7

the particulate that’s settling in the
some particulate comes into the cooling

38:45.7

38:50.4

tower act like a half a micron most of
the stuff that’s floating around the air

38:50.4

38:55.3

is like two microns down a half micron
in some finer so what’s floating around

38:55.3

38:59.2

in the air is really fine so when that
particulate goes into the cooling water

38:59.2

39:04.5

it leaves and flows out through the
whole system as time goes along and

39:04.5

39:08.7

these particles you get more and more
particles in the water they agglomerate

39:08.7

39:15.0

and as they agglomerate the water
becomes more turbid and then the sump

39:15.0

39:19.3

begins to to do its job of it
particulate settles out there but it’s

39:19.3

39:24.1

also settling in the heat transfer
surfaces so whenever you add a high

39:24.1

39:29.4

quality sand filter to a system the
particle loading in the sump drops by

39:29.4

39:35.9

eighty ninety percent
so any customer that has a particle

39:35.9

39:40.2

loading situation in the sump is going
to find some to be quite clean after he

39:40.2

39:45.0

puts a particular as the source of the
deposition that’s been taken away by a

39:45.0

39:51.9

side student filter so an example that I
had a cogent plant and Hatford that you

39:51.9

40:00.7

can tell my Boston accent in Hartford
where they were every year when they

40:00.7

40:05.3

cleaned out the sump they were up to
their knees in mud and sludge and they

40:05.3

40:12.0

hated it barrels and barrels stuff to
remove and I told them that I thought

40:12.0

40:17.0

that you would reduce the amount of
sedimentation by putting a filter on

40:17.0

40:20.3

there but I really you never know
exactly how much you’re going to remove

40:20.3

40:24.4

it by because if there’s a lot of heavy
solids coming in in the air which there

40:24.4

40:29.4

shouldn’t be then we could have some
deposition anyway but what what happened

40:29.4

40:33.9

to them is the first year after they put
the same filter in they ended up going

40:33.9

40:39.5

into the sump to clean it and they
squeegeed it no heavy sludge at all they

40:39.5

40:45.3

absolutely love the filtration system so
if you have heavy some particles some

40:45.3

40:51.9

bloating it will significantly reduce
that and I wouldn’t make promises to my

40:51.9

40:54.9

customers but I would just say yeah
you’re gonna be a much cleaner or

40:54.9

41:00.9

something let’s see how it goes but the
reason for buying a sand filter is not

41:00.9

41:05.4

so you can clean the sump less people
that’s a nice thing but that’s just some

41:05.4

41:10.9

maintenance expenses very short term a
few days where these particles when they

41:10.9

41:15.7

go into the cooling system and he hit
the heat transfer services they reduce

41:15.7

41:20.6

heat transfer and they put many many
thousands of dollars a year in

41:20.6

41:25.8

electrical use increased electrical uses
what happens when you have particle

41:25.8

41:29.7

loading and so I keep bringing my
customers back yeah we want to reduce

41:29.7

41:33.8

the maintenance but the key is you’re
gonna save a lot of money with the

41:33.8

41:40.5

electrical load changes improvements and
I got a lot of data and sheets on that

41:40.5

41:44.5

that people can look at too I can
provide all that when we look forward to

41:44.5

41:47.9

putting some of those
on the Scaling UP! show notes page the

41:47.9

41:53.8

CTI paper that i did it’s pretty old but
what the filtration technology hasn’t

41:53.8

41:58.3

really changed so that paper you have
that you and you’re welcome to put that

41:58.3

42:03.7

in the notes that’s about twenty pages
of everything I know about CN filtration

42:03.7

42:08.6

so there’s a lot of stuff in there but
you want to be educated and people

42:08.6

42:12.6

you’re welcome to put my name and phone
number up there and let water treaters

42:12.6

42:16.2

give me a call they have yeah we’ll
definitely put your contact information

42:16.2

42:20.0

if you’re on any social media we will
have that on the show notes page as well

42:20.0

42:25.3

Brian what’s the one thing you want the
Scaling UP! nation to get out of today’s

42:25.3

42:30.7

interview if you have clean water it’s
going to help the water treatment

42:30.7

42:38.4

program keep the heat transfer surfaces
clean and with minimum corrosion if they

42:38.4

42:43.0

try sand filters they’re gonna love them
high efficiency sand filters I think is

42:43.0

42:46.9

a better deal but you know it depends on
you know situation and who you’re

42:46.9

42:52.3

working with in the rest well I sure
appreciate you giving some of your

42:52.3

42:56.3

filter knowledge to the Scaling UP!
nation but before I let you go I do have

42:56.3

43:01.9

some lightning round questions for you
so are you ready for these oh god yes

43:01.9

43:07.6

all right so the first one is if you
could go back in time and speak to

43:07.6

43:13.6

yourself your first day as a water treat
what advice would you give I would

43:13.6

43:19.0

encourage people to like I would have
told myself don’t give any advice that

43:19.0

43:24.2

you’re not sure about tell people I’ll
get you the answer to that so and I did

43:24.2

43:29.5

don’t hide that your no I just would go
into my customers when I was first in

43:29.5

43:33.9

water tree around and say look I know
some chemistry I know some basic things

43:33.9

43:39.2

about chemical water treatment I know
what to do but I don’t know the systems

43:39.2

43:44.1

like you do so if if you can help me out
with explaining certain things to me I

43:44.1

43:47.4

really appreciate it
because if you make your customer a

43:47.4

43:52.6

person who helps and teaches you you got
a friend if you go there to give advice

43:52.6

43:57.7

to people and tell them how to do stuff
people don’t like that you know your

43:57.7

44:02.4

customers would rather have
yeah okay I love that advice that’s

44:02.4

44:08.3

awesome what’s the last book you’ve read
Oh Jeep as I read mystery novels all of

44:08.3

44:13.7

the time and I study technology online
and I haven’t really read books on

44:13.7

44:19.3

technology in a long time because any
question I have if I go online I can ask

44:19.3

44:23.5

the question technical yeah the
Internet’s just ruined book industry for

44:23.5

44:28.0

forever right yeah well not for
technical stuff anyway for me and you

44:28.0

44:32.9

know for pleasure reading you know
that’s that’s I still download the books

44:32.9

44:37.0

I read them on my phone but yeah
everything’s on the internet now

44:37.0

44:40.7

anything technical that I need to know I
can get on the Internet the moment well

44:40.7

44:44.6

eventually Hollywood’s going to find out
about you they’re gonna make a movie who

44:44.6

45:09.2

played you who plays me oh my god Nick
Nolte yeah we definitely didn’t see him

45:09.2

45:12.6

come out today on the interview and I
think that’s a good thing he’s yeah yeah

45:12.6

45:19.3

yeah you know he’s yeah crazy character
he’s my alter ego there you go my last

45:19.3

45:23.5

question is now you can talk with
anybody throughout history who to be

45:23.5

45:27.6

with
and why Albert Einstein theory of

45:27.6

45:32.5

relativity I did a paper on it in high
school and I’ve always been enthralled

45:32.5

45:40.3

with that technical stuff since then Oh
Brian I want to thank you for coming on

45:40.3

45:44.1

Scaling UP! filtrations one of those
things that i think most people know

45:44.1

45:49.0

they need to have if they didn’t know
they definitely know it after this

45:49.0

45:54.6

interview but you have shared so much
information to help shed light on every

45:54.6

46:00.2

water treaters need to know which is
filtration thank you so much for that

46:00.2

46:06.5

nation I know that you got something
from that interview I really think that

46:06.5

46:12.5

I could have Brian on other topics of
filtration he just knows his stuff Brian

46:12.5

46:17.8

thank you so much for coming on Scaling UP! h2o and sharing with the Scaling UP!

46:17.8

46:22.7

nation some of the things that we need
to be aware of when it comes to

46:22.7

46:28.8

filtration now folks as you know as a
water treaty we never stop learning as

46:28.8

46:34.0

you’ve heard me say my dad used to tell
me all the time that day I thought I

46:34.0

46:38.7

knew everything and water treatment was
the day I needed to get out of water

46:38.7

46:44.0

treatment and that told me from a very
early age that we never stopped learning

46:44.0

46:49.2

here and what a great industry to be in
where there’s so much information out

46:49.2

46:55.7

there for us to learn that we never have
to stop and I tell you when I feel like

46:55.7

46:58.0

I’ve learned everything about a
particular topic

46:58.0

47:03.7

I get bored folks I have never been
bored a day in my life as a water treat

47:03.7

47:10.7

and it is because there’s just so much
stuff out there for us to learn next I

47:10.7

47:16.0

encourage each and every one of you to
look for what the next thing is that you

47:16.0

47:22.5

are going to learn and with that in mind
we do have a WTS annual convention and

47:22.5

47:27.8

Expo coming up it’s going to be
September 11th through 14th in Palm

47:27.8

47:34.6

Springs California now folks if you’ve
never been to an AWT convention and Expo

47:34.6

47:40.2

I got to tell you you’re missing out
every person that sells anything that

47:40.2

47:45.5

you could possibly need when it comes to
water treatment equipment is going to be

47:45.5

47:52.0

there it is the one-stop shop for you to
talk to every single one of your water

47:52.0

47:58.0

treatment vendors it is such a value
packed event because you can go to one

47:58.0

48:03.5

place and have dozens of conversations
the other thing is there’s going to be

48:03.5

48:08.6

so many expert presenters there and
they’re presenting on topics that are

48:08.6

48:13.0

going to elevate what you currently know
about those top

48:13.0

48:18.4

they’re going to allow you to get back
to your respective territories and be

48:18.4

48:22.5

better water treaters because you’re
coming back with this new information

48:22.5

48:28.9

you’re also going to have ideas of
things that you can solve based on these

48:28.9

48:34.0

presentations and then of course the
most important thing that so many people

48:34.0

48:41.6

leave out is you are in a venue of
people that do exactly what it is that

48:41.6

48:45.3

you do and I talk to people and they say
well yeah that’s my competition I don’t

48:45.3

48:51.1

want to talk to them folks get over that
you are missing such an opportunity when

48:51.1

48:56.3

can you ever go anywhere and tell
somebody what it is that you do as a

48:56.3

49:01.1

water-treatment professional and they
truly understand what you’re telling

49:01.1

49:04.8

them and not think that you’re a pool
guy our work down at the local sewer

49:04.8

49:11.8

everybody in this convention hall knows
exactly what it is that you do and you

49:11.8

49:17.7

can get some tremendous friendships if
you just introduce yourself I’ve had

49:17.7

49:21.2

many of my friends on the show you guys
know I’ve had Marc Lewis on several

49:21.2

49:26.3

times Marc Lewis and I do not go a day
without speaking with each other

49:26.3

49:31.2

well maybe we might go too but if that’s
not often and I would not have met Marc

49:31.2

49:38.1

had I not have gone to the awt
convention and Expo and actually two

49:38.1

49:43.1

times ago when we were in Palm Springs
where I met Marc so how about that we’re

49:43.1

49:47.3

gonna celebrate the place where we met
each other and I’ve had several requests

49:47.3

49:51.9

people have wanted Marc to come on again
so Marc and I have spoken with each

49:51.9

49:56.8

other so that will be in the near future
but folks please take advantage of

49:56.8

50:02.7

everything that the AWT or any venue
where you’re coming together with like

50:02.7

50:08.3

people that you’re getting everything
out of it well folks so many of you and

50:08.3

50:12.6

the Scaling UP! nation have come up to me
and or sent me an email and said thanks

50:12.6

50:17.8

so much for letting me know about
audible I’ve actually been able to read

50:17.8

50:23.3

books again and I know better than
anyone as a water treaty we are behind

50:23.3

50:28.4

the wheel so
so why not have a podcast for the water

50:28.4

50:33.3

treatment community and you folks have
been so gracious in downloading and

50:33.3

50:40.2

telling people about the Scaling UP! h2o
podcast but you’ve also learned that you

50:40.2

50:44.9

can use your car as your personal
Learning Center through the podcast but

50:44.9

50:50.0

then also through using tools such as
audible audible is a service that allows

50:50.0

50:56.5

you to read while you’re driving
audible allows you to study again it

50:56.5

51:01.0

allows you to learn more and it allows
you to do it on your own terms

51:01.0

51:06.5

during your regular day you don’t have
to change how your day is you can just

51:06.5

51:12.3

insert this into your day today
now if you go to Scaling UP! h2o com

51:12.3

51:16.7

forward slash audible I can get you a
free month and a free book where you can

51:16.7

51:21.5

try audible out now that’s an affiliate
site for me and what that means is it

51:21.5

51:26.5

will cost you absolutely nothing extra
to go to that site but audible and

51:26.5

51:30.8

thanking me will pay me a slight
commission I thank all those people that

51:30.8

51:34.2

have done that and I think all the
people that have gotten back to me and

51:34.2

51:39.0

said what a great tool it is I’m trying
to make sure that anything I let you

51:39.0

51:43.9

guys know about that it has helped me
personally or it has the potential to

51:43.9

51:50.3

help the Scaling UP! nation the thing I’m
going to ask you for next is I need your

51:50.3

51:56.4

topics what do you want to hear on
Scaling UP! h2o and who do you want me to

51:56.4

52:02.3

interview next folks I’m doing a great
job of staying ahead of that curb but

52:02.3

52:08.3

once I pass that threshold I don’t want
to run out of material please help me

52:08.3

52:12.3

with this request and you can go to my
show notes page Scaling UP!

52:12.3

52:17.8

h2o com you can go directly to the show
notes page or you can click on the voice

52:17.8

52:23.1

mail button and you can actually leave
me your information there and what I’d

52:23.1

52:27.5

love for you to do is ask me a question
that I can answer on one of our pinks

52:27.5

52:32.8

and blues episodes well folks thanks so
much for tuning in and I am looking

52:32.8

52:35.5

forward to speaking with you next week
on

52:35.5

52:38.4

Scaling UP! h2o

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