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0:08.1
0:13.3
welcome to scaling up the podcast where
we scale up on knowledge so we do not
0:13.3
0:18.2
scale up our systems
hello scaling up nation Trace Blackmore
0:18.2
0:26.9
here the host for scaling up h2o and
nation thank you so much for writing in
0:26.9
0:33.1
for calling in for cinema voicemails for
doing all the things that you do to let
0:33.1
0:39.6
me know what you want me to talk about
on scaling up h2o now a couple of weeks
0:39.6
0:47.0
ago I received some questions about
scale and the show primarily dealt with
0:47.0
0:53.1
how we talk about scale to our customers
well I’ve received some more questions
0:53.1
1:01.4
going into exactly what scale is and
simply put I am going to try to boil
1:01.4
1:07.5
down a no pun intended what scale is
when we’re looking at something like
1:07.5
1:14.1
calcium carbonate now calcium carbonate
is the common scale that US water
1:14.1
1:20.8
treaters have to deal with and if you’ve
taken a class from me you know that I
1:20.8
1:26.3
call calcium carbonate the water
treaters and nemesis calcium carbonate
1:26.3
1:33.1
is a combination of five things and I’m
just going to go right into an
1:33.1
1:40.7
explanation of what those five things
are so we have alkalinity hardness pH
1:40.7
1:47.3
dissolve solids and temperature if you
have listened to earlier shows you have
1:47.3
1:53.5
heard me speak on stability indices and
there’s three of them out there
1:53.5
1:59.8
there’s the Longy leer there is the
risen ER and there is the Aquarius I
1:59.8
2:04.8
used to call it the practical but we
lost pop Aquarius very recently and I’m
2:04.8
2:10.8
honoring Paul by calling it the pakora
scaling index that being said they all
2:10.8
2:16.2
put a little spin on how water is either
dissolve
2:16.2
2:23.0
or precipitating calcium carbonate and
depending on which one your company uses
2:23.0
2:28.5
and that you are familiar with it really
doesn’t matter which one you use I get
2:28.5
2:33.4
the question all the time which one is
better than another they all do the same
2:33.4
2:40.0
thing they just have a different
mathematical spin on how they get that
2:40.0
2:43.7
result so whatever one you’re
comfortable using that’s the one that
2:43.7
2:49.5
you’re going to use but they all do the
same thing they start with the
2:49.5
2:56.0
saturation pH and that is exactly what I
said before that means we are neither
2:56.0
3:01.9
precipitating or we are neither
dissolving calcium carbonate it is in
3:01.9
3:10.0
equilibrium with that then one of those
scaling indices will then put their spin
3:10.0
3:17.7
on it and they will say how scaling or
how non scaling the water is now I did
3:17.7
3:22.6
say non scaling I did not say how
corrosive the water is because nation
3:22.6
3:27.5
all water is corrosive so when we say
it’s either scaling or corrosive that’s
3:27.5
3:32.0
not a correct way of saying that water
is the universal solvent it only knows
3:32.0
3:37.7
how to do one thing and that is to
dissolve ie corrode so we know that
3:37.7
3:41.4
waters are either scaling or non
skimming they have one of those
3:41.4
3:46.3
tendencies so the five things that
creates calcium carbonate are the five
3:46.3
3:53.0
things that go into the scaling indices
those are alkalinity hardness pH total
3:53.0
3:58.0
dissolved solids and temperature so if
you’re interested in learning more about
3:58.0
4:04.0
alkalinity I recently did a show on
alkalinity I talk all things alkalinity
4:04.0
4:12.3
that was episode 86 so go to episode 86
and you can learn about alkalinity also
4:12.3
4:18.2
if you want to learn about pH I did a
show on pH that was episode 84 and
4:18.2
4:24.2
nation those were because of questions
that people in the scaling-up nation
4:24.2
4:27.7
wrote in to me so I decided to do shows
of
4:27.7
4:32.4
so the other thing with the one of the
five so we’ve talked about alkalinity we
4:32.4
4:38.0
talked about pH now we’re going to talk
about hardness so this is the calcium in
4:38.0
4:43.7
calcium carbonate how much do we have in
there and that’s going to go into the
4:43.7
4:49.4
equation the next thing we have is total
dissolved solids and I want to take a
4:49.4
4:54.3
second and talk about total dissolved
solids because a lot of water treaters
4:54.3
4:59.8
misunderstand what that is is total
dissolved solids and conductivity the
4:59.8
5:07.0
same thing well no it is very different
however when we are looking at the
5:07.0
5:14.5
multiplier that we use in figuring out
if water is either precipitating or
5:14.5
5:19.0
dissolving calcium carbonate
conductivity or in this case total
5:19.0
5:24.4
dissolved solids is such a small factor
we’re not going to see very much
5:24.4
5:29.8
difference if we interchange those
numbers so that being said it is
5:29.8
5:36.2
perfectly fine to use conductivity as a
substitution for your total dissolve
5:36.2
5:41.7
solids numbers when you’re using these
scaling indices however it is very
5:41.7
5:46.5
important for you to know that those are
not the same thing if you’re doing some
5:46.5
5:52.7
other testing and you substitute the
wrong number you will not get the
5:52.7
5:56.6
correct data so you have to know what
you’re looking for and you have to know
5:56.6
6:02.5
what they’re actually asking for within
those particular equations if you’re
6:02.5
6:08.4
wondering what the difference is total
dissolved solids is actually a weight
6:08.4
6:16.2
test we’re going to take a sample that’s
mixed and filtered through a pre-weighed
6:16.2
6:22.6
filter paper and then we are going to
evaporate all the water off of that
6:22.6
6:28.8
filter paper once that’s done we are
going to re-weigh the filter paper we’ll
6:28.8
6:32.9
subtract out the original weight of the
filter paper and we will then know how
6:32.9
6:39.4
many total dissolve solids are in the
area that we are measuring and
6:39.4
6:46.1
that test now conductivity is just the
sum of the parts it’s it’s actually
6:46.1
6:52.1
measuring how much an electrical current
or how easy an electrical current can go
6:52.1
6:58.8
from the anode to the cathode and the
easier it is to pass that charge from
6:58.8
7:03.8
one to the other the higher the numbers
going to be now if you were to do
7:03.8
7:09.3
conductivity in distilled water and if
you were to build your own conductivity
7:09.3
7:14.5
meter by having an electrical charge
going across and probably everybody has
7:14.5
7:19.0
seen that demonstration where somebody
has a light bulb in there and they use
7:19.0
7:22.9
distilled water and the light bulb is
not light up so then they dissolve some
7:22.9
7:27.0
salt in it and the light bulb lights up
that’s conductivity that’s being able to
7:27.0
7:32.7
conduct that current across the water
the higher the number the easier is for
7:32.7
7:38.1
that conductance to happen now total
dissolved solids you will see on most
7:38.1
7:44.1
meters right underneath the conductivity
button there is a TDS button folks a
7:44.1
7:50.4
little elf does not come out of your
meter and do the tests that I described
7:50.4
7:58.4
and weigh it for you it just takes a
percentage of conductivity and puts that
7:58.4
8:03.5
on your meter output I believe it’s
right around 60% it might be a little
8:03.5
8:07.2
different between manufacturers of
meters but all it’s doing is a
8:07.2
8:12.2
mathematical calculation saying I’m
gonna take a percentage of the
8:12.2
8:17.2
conductivity so now the question comes
up which number do I use if I just use
8:17.2
8:21.0
the meter I understand I’m not going to
do the weight test but now I have a
8:21.0
8:25.9
button that says conductivity and I have
a button that says TDS or total
8:25.9
8:31.5
dissolved solids which ones do I use in
my stability indices and folks again
8:31.5
8:36.4
it’s such a small number it doesn’t
matter now if you’re taking another test
8:36.4
8:43.0
as I just said you might want to use
that but again that is not doing the
8:43.0
8:48.2
test the way the test has meant to be
done and there are a couple of reasons
8:48.2
8:54.5
out there that you would want to run the
actual weighted method of TDs because
8:54.5
9:00.4
that’s how you run TDS but for this show
I can think of no reason for you to do
9:00.4
9:06.7
that now the last part of our equation
deals with temperature and folks calcium
9:06.7
9:13.1
carbonate is the water treaters nemesis
for this reason we are water treaters
9:13.1
9:17.9
which means we are heat transfer
efficiency managers our job is to make
9:17.9
9:23.5
sure that all the heat that we’re trying
to transfer through that equipment takes
9:23.5
9:30.0
place as efficiently as it possibly can
and scale acts like insulation which
9:30.0
9:36.0
means it’s holding heat in we said that
that was great in your attic but it’s
9:36.0
9:40.0
not so good in your heat transfer
equipment because that means that
9:40.0
9:45.5
chiller has to work harder we talked
about this last time the chiller has to
9:45.5
9:50.0
work harder in order to overcome that
insulation and that’s what scale is
9:50.0
9:57.2
scale is insulation so when it gets
hotter calcium carbonate wants to come
9:57.2
10:03.2
out of solution this job is not easy
folks we our heat transfer efficiency
10:03.2
10:08.2
managers meaning that we are dealing
with heat and the water treaters nemesis
10:08.2
10:13.9
is calcium carbonate and the hotter it
gets the more it wants to come out of
10:13.9
10:21.9
solution now most things want to go into
solution the hotter they get but calcium
10:21.9
10:26.8
carbonate does not do that it does the
inverse effect now if you’re wondering
10:26.8
10:32.8
what I’m talking about and you ever had
Georgia sweet tea you know exactly what
10:32.8
10:38.2
I’m talking about now the great state of
Georgia where my home is we have this
10:38.2
10:42.8
incredible elixir called Georgia sweet
tea and I know what you’re thinking
10:42.8
10:47.3
you’re thinking I live in Indiana and
we’ve got sweet tea folks if you are not
10:47.3
10:54.6
in Georgia you have no idea what sweet
tea is now sweet tea is very special in
10:54.6
10:57.6
Georgia there’s a secret recipe for it
and
10:57.6
11:05.2
then there is so much sugar in the sweet
tea it’s guaranteed to rot at least two
11:05.2
11:10.7
or three teeth with three sips I think
that’s in a standard somewhere folks
11:10.7
11:16.2
when I talk about this I always ask
people how do we in Georgia get so much
11:16.2
11:22.3
sugar dissolved in that sweet tea and
they always tell me well you have to get
11:22.3
11:27.7
it hot and then you put all that sugar
in while it’s hot and that’s how it goes
11:27.7
11:32.8
into solution that’s how most things are
the hotter we get things the more we can
11:32.8
11:39.7
dissolve in a liquid calcium carbonate
is the reverse the hotter it gets the
11:39.7
11:45.7
more it wants to come out a solution so
it’s very important we understand what
11:45.7
11:51.0
our water is telling us what products
we’re putting in the system making sure
11:51.0
11:57.1
those things match up so we can keep the
system clean as heat transfer efficiency
11:57.1
12:04.9
managers so what are some of the tools
that we use to help not scale up a
12:04.9
12:12.6
system well folks if you have a cooling
tower I guarantee you have a bleed set
12:12.6
12:17.8
on that cooling tower now my father used
to say the solution to pollution is
12:17.8
12:22.9
dilution and what he was saying he was
saying only pure water evaporates
12:22.9
12:29.4
leaving hit solids behind and eventually
those solids reach a point where the
12:29.4
12:35.9
water can no longer hold those solids in
solution and then they precipitate out
12:35.9
12:41.9
and they form scale and that becomes
that insulation that we do not want so
12:41.9
12:47.8
what we do is we do water tests we
figure out what’s in the incoming water
12:47.8
12:52.6
and how its concentrating up in the
system that we are treating we then
12:52.6
12:59.0
figure out which ion is going to scale
first and then we’re going to set a
12:59.0
13:05.5
conductivity bleed so we never get up to
that situation we never get it up
13:05.5
13:10.7
I enough so we create a scaling
situation and through the adage the
13:10.7
13:16.6
solution to pollution is dilution we
open up a bleed valve we bleed out that
13:16.6
13:23.7
heavy concentrated solids water and we
replace it with the not as concentrated
13:23.7
13:29.6
at all not concentrated make up water so
we can dilute that out so that is what
13:29.6
13:33.8
bleed is doing I know you out there in
the scaling up nation already know that
13:33.8
13:41.9
but you also know that our job is not
only to prevent scale from occurring but
13:41.9
13:46.3
to do it in a way where we’re not
wasting the water that’s going down the
13:46.3
13:50.9
drain I can’t tell you how many
customers I’ve talked to or even seeing
13:50.9
13:56.5
close the bleed vow because they didn’t
want to waste water they didn’t
13:56.5
14:02.6
understand what we were trying to do and
that was an issue with us not explaining
14:02.6
14:07.0
what they needed to know about their
system once we had that conversation we
14:07.0
14:12.1
didn’t have that problem again but I
have also seen water treaters where they
14:12.1
14:17.1
have not done their due diligence to
figure out how can they maximize that
14:17.1
14:23.3
bleed setpoint and not waste any of that
valuable resource not waste any more
14:23.3
14:30.3
water than they need to and keep the
system clean so folks if you do not know
14:30.3
14:34.4
which ion is going to come out of
solution first or you’re gonna have a
14:34.4
14:39.1
problem with you need to run some tests
and you need to ask some questions now
14:39.1
14:44.5
depending on which product you are using
you will have special limitations now I
14:44.5
14:49.8
can’t tell you those but your technical
directors can they know what’s in those
14:49.8
14:54.0
products and they have tested them and
they’re gonna say these are the six
14:54.0
14:59.0
things that you need to test for and
whichever one is going to occur first
14:59.0
15:04.5
that’s going to be your limiting factor
you’re then going to multiply how many
15:04.5
15:09.6
times it’s going to take to concentrate
up in your raw water and multiply the
15:09.6
15:13.2
conductivity out by that and that’s
going to give you roughly what the
15:13.2
15:19.1
conductivity setpoint needs to be
now I said I have personally seen where
15:19.1
15:26.1
water treaters have not done a very good
job of extending the amount of water in
15:26.1
15:31.8
their system and they will overly bleed
the system well here’s some math folks
15:31.8
15:37.4
and it’s not hard math but you can very
easily see how much water you are
15:37.4
15:43.2
wasting by using the reciprocal of the
concentration ratio now what the heck
15:43.2
15:46.5
did I just say okay well we all know
what the concentration ratio is if I
15:46.5
15:53.2
concentrate something up six times then
my concentration ratio is six well the
15:53.2
15:58.2
reciprocal is just a big fancy word that
means I’m going to create a fraction by
15:58.2
16:05.4
putting one over six and then whatever
my make up is I’m going to multiply it
16:05.4
16:13.3
out by 1/6 so with that let’s say we’re
using a two hundred gallon per minute
16:13.3
16:19.9
makeup and we’re going to divide one
into six so that equals 0.16
16:19.9
16:24.5
that’s a coincidence it doesn’t always
work that way so please do the math and
16:24.5
16:28.1
then I’m just going to multiply across
so I take my two hundred gallons per
16:28.1
16:35.5
minute makeup multiplied by my 1/6 the
reciprocal of my concentration ratio and
16:35.5
16:41.4
I find that out of that two hundred
gallons a minute I am bleeding 32
16:41.4
16:47.1
gallons per minute makes sense right and
that’s probably not a bad concentration
16:47.1
16:53.9
ratio for most places but what if that’s
what they could run and they were only
16:53.9
17:01.2
running a concentration ratio of two
well one half if we divide that out that
17:01.2
17:08.0
would be 0.5 so if I multiply two
hundred by 0.5 we would be bleeding a
17:08.0
17:13.8
hundred gallons per minute folks that’s
a big difference between 32 and a
17:13.8
17:18.5
hundred gallons and that’s wasting water
that’s making the customer pay for more
17:18.5
17:23.2
water that they do not need to pay for
it’s possibly making them use more water
17:23.2
17:27.5
graduating
up and to another tier so now every drop
17:27.5
17:32.3
of water they pay for is more expensive
but folks you listen to this show you
17:32.3
17:39.1
know there is a finite amount of readily
available water on this planet and us as
17:39.1
17:44.9
water treaters have the ability to save
more water than most people combined
17:44.9
17:51.4
we’re not doing our job if we are not
utilizing things like this so please
17:51.4
17:58.9
let’s be good stewards of the water that
allows us to practice our craft to do
17:58.9
18:04.6
what we do to get a paycheck and to make
all the friends and things that we do on
18:04.6
18:10.1
a regular basis if we’re not able to use
water because it’s not available to us
18:10.1
18:16.0
we are going to have to find a new job
and folks I love this job too much and I
18:16.0
18:21.0
don’t know what I would do if I was not
a water trader so let’s make sure we are
18:21.0
18:27.2
all doing what we need to do by saving
water now all of that was meant to
18:27.2
18:34.1
express how important it is for us to
properly set up the bleed on a system
18:34.1
18:38.9
again the solution to pollution is
dilution that sounds sort of goofy my
18:38.9
18:42.2
father used to say that I thought he was
boofie when he said it but it makes
18:42.2
18:47.3
perfect sense that’s why we believe the
system and then we look at the five
18:47.3
18:52.1
components that make up calcium
carbonate and then we can do something
18:52.1
18:57.1
with each one of those to reduce the
likelihood that we would scale so we
18:57.1
19:00.5
might want to control pH and you might
have a system out there that’s using
19:00.5
19:06.9
acid to suppress the pH you might have a
water softener that takes the calcium
19:06.9
19:11.4
out of the water maybe you have it the
alkaline Iser and you’re taking some of
19:11.4
19:17.0
the alkalinity out so whatever we are
doing to take away one of the five
19:17.0
19:20.5
components and we’re probably not going
to do anything with heat and with
19:20.5
19:23.6
conductivity we talked about what we can
do with that that’s how we’re managing
19:23.6
19:29.3
our bleed so the only real other ones
that we can look at are alkalinity pH
19:29.3
19:34.1
and hardness so if we do something with
that perhaps we can extend the
19:34.1
19:40.6
concentration ratio now there is a far
different water quality in Florida and
19:40.6
19:47.4
Georgia they have much harder water so
they might have to actually use acid we
19:47.4
19:52.6
don’t have to do that up here in the
Atlanta area so with all of that you
19:52.6
19:57.9
have to know what water you are treating
so you approach it correctly so let’s
19:57.9
20:06.3
get into our special sauce and that is
the products that we use to inhibit
20:06.3
20:11.9
scale formation so I talked about this a
couple of weeks ago but I’ll do it again
20:11.9
20:17.4
as we concentrate pure water evaporates
leaving an in solids behind and we get
20:17.4
20:22.3
to a point where there’s so many
dissolved solids in the water we are not
20:22.3
20:27.0
able to hold them in solution actually
it’s the water doing the work the water
20:27.0
20:32.6
cannot hold them into solution and they
create a seed crystal we call that
20:32.6
20:36.8
nucleation and that crystal begins
another crystal which begins another
20:36.8
20:41.9
crystal and you get this domino effect
and those crystals grow into what we see
20:41.9
20:50.1
as scale so knowing that we have a
couple of different items that we can
20:50.1
20:56.5
throw into the system via our special
sauce via our products and all of those
20:56.5
21:02.9
products combined we call deposit
inhibitors and we can do deposit
21:02.9
21:08.4
inhibition through three mechanisms
threshold inhibition crystal
21:08.4
21:14.6
modification and dispersion so let’s
talk a little bit about each one of
21:14.6
21:21.2
those so threshold inhibition if I can
keep X amount of a certain product let’s
21:21.2
21:25.8
say calcium so how much calcium do I
have in the system I then test that and
21:25.8
21:31.3
then I’m going to look at my technical
data sheet to see how much a water that
21:31.3
21:37.1
I’m using with this product can hold in
solution and let’s say with using this
21:37.1
21:43.8
product and it has this threshold in
Bishan agent in it we can now extend
21:43.8
21:49.7
what the water would naturally hold in
solution ten times out so maybe we were
21:49.7
21:55.5
only able to hold X now we can hold X
times ten so we are extending the
21:55.5
22:02.0
threshold that the water is able to keep
in solution because of the threshold
22:02.0
22:06.4
inhibitor that we’re putting in there
the next thing that we might use is
22:06.4
22:12.2
crystal modification now folks if you
have ever seen an electron scanning
22:12.2
22:18.6
microscope picture of calcium carbonate
it is really cool it is a perfect square
22:18.6
22:26.3
and what do squares do what do boxes do
they stacked very well that’s why we can
22:26.3
22:32.7
scale up a system overnight and it takes
so long for us to clean it up it packs
22:32.7
22:39.3
in there so tight because of the way
that that crystal grows so what we can
22:39.3
22:44.7
do is we can add an agent that when it
comes out of solution it will distort
22:44.7
22:50.5
what that crystal comes out at naturally
so instead of now a box it’s now going
22:50.5
22:56.5
to be a sphere or something distorted
that kind of looks like a sphere so it
22:56.5
23:02.8
rolls around more instead of stacking
that’s called crystal modification now
23:02.8
23:09.1
the last thing in our scale inhibition
bag of tricks is dispersion so
23:09.1
23:13.5
dispersion is the process by which we
add something and it doesn’t allow
23:13.5
23:19.5
particles to come together so instead of
particles combining what it’s going to
23:19.5
23:23.1
do it’s going to give them all the same
chart it’s going to give them all a
23:23.1
23:29.1
negative charge and like charges repel
each other so they don’t want to come
23:29.1
23:35.1
together so by using a dispersion agent
that’s what that does now Bruce
23:35.1
23:39.6
Catterick says something that I love
it’s not technically correct but it
23:39.6
23:45.9
really allows it to make sense he says
that dispersants make it so slick so it
23:45.9
23:50.9
don’t stay and I like that but again
really what it’s doing and he knows this
23:50.9
23:55.4
he there’s thinks it’s clever to say
is that we’re putting a negative charge
23:55.4
24:00.4
on everything so it’s repelling each
other so that way it doesn’t stick so
24:00.4
24:09.7
those are the three mechanisms that we
can use to inhibit scale formation
24:09.7
24:15.7
threshold inhibition crystal
modification and dispersion now if you
24:15.7
24:22.7
look at your products and see what
they’re made up of you might see some
24:22.7
24:31.2
phosphonates so phosphonates might be
80mph a DP p bt c you might also see
24:31.2
24:40.1
some polymers those are the acrylic acid
the AAA amps the malic acid and the
24:40.1
24:46.3
phosphine o carboxylic acid now putting
those things together is probably what’s
24:46.3
24:52.1
going on in your products and those are
crystal modifiers and threshold
24:52.1
24:57.2
inhibitors they actually they actually
do both and we will see some do things
24:57.2
25:01.4
better than another and what we’ll do is
we’ll blend a couple of those together
25:01.4
25:07.7
so that way we get the best of both
worlds so I’m asking you if you’re
25:07.7
25:12.4
unclear about this go to your labels go
to your technical sheets go to your
25:12.4
25:17.5
safety data sheets and review some of
the names that I just mentioned again
25:17.5
25:20.6
they’re either going to be phosphonate
so they’re gonna be polymers and you
25:20.6
25:25.6
will see that that’s what’s in your
product and now you know what they are
25:25.6
25:31.4
doing as far as dispersions you know we
might see the polyacrylate we might see
25:31.4
25:37.7
acrylate s– we might see amps we might
see tur polymers we might see and by the
25:37.7
25:44.0
way a copolymer is is several polymers
polymer means means many and co means
25:44.0
25:47.5
we’ve got several of the many so
sometimes you’ll hear people say
25:47.5
25:52.3
terpolymer or quad polymer you can say
that but you’re just wasting your time
25:52.3
25:56.8
they’re all copolymers they might have
some different change to them and then
25:56.8
26:00.1
some of them might even have a styrene
on the end of it
26:00.1
26:03.2
you’re like well what
the heck is that and why do we have that
26:03.2
26:08.2
well typically manufacturers will add
that because that does a good job of
26:08.2
26:14.3
helping us transport iron so I throw all
these big names out not that I expect
26:14.3
26:19.7
you to remember them but now that you
know about them you can look at your
26:19.7
26:23.8
products and you can begin to understand
your products better and if you’re a
26:23.8
26:29.0
water treated at is treating water in a
large area you might have products that
26:29.0
26:34.1
work very well in one part of your
territory and will fail miserably in
26:34.1
26:39.0
another part of your territory we have
to know what the water is that we’re
26:39.0
26:43.5
going to be concentrating up and then
we’re gonna match the proper products to
26:43.5
26:48.6
that water and somebody in your company
has already done the legwork to figure
26:48.6
26:54.2
out ok what kind of dispersants what
kind of threshold inhibitors and then
26:54.2
27:00.5
what kind of crystal habit modifiers do
I need to throw in the mix to treat this
27:00.5
27:06.2
type of water and then how much to treat
this type of water so make sure you
27:06.2
27:13.1
understand what you are doing because if
you do not the results can be disastrous
27:13.1
27:19.4
folks I have been called in on many
occasion where something disastrous has
27:19.4
27:24.9
happened and a fellow water treater
couldn’t figure out what was going on
27:24.9
27:31.8
and they were simply using the wrong
chemistry so it seemed to have worked
27:31.8
27:36.5
for a while but they weren’t able to see
what was going on internally in the
27:36.5
27:41.3
system and what they thought
all of a sudden took place overnight was
27:41.3
27:46.6
actually taking place over the entire
past year and then they saw a result
27:46.6
27:49.9
where they weren’t monitoring the
customer wasn’t monitoring like they
27:49.9
27:53.1
should that it just would not cool
anymore
27:53.1
27:57.6
and in the specific instance that I’m
thinking of they actually had to comp an
27:57.6
28:02.6
entire hotel because the
air-conditioning did not work properly
28:02.6
28:07.7
folks do you think that customer was
happy absolutely they were not we were
28:07.7
28:12.7
able to help them get the product that
they needed after we cleaned up that
28:12.7
28:16.7
situation but
nobody was happy luckily we were able to
28:16.7
28:22.2
help that client so how do you know if a
chiller is scaled up well folks earlier
28:22.2
28:29.1
in my podcasting career
I interviewed mark Lewis it was around
28:29.1
28:32.5
the 30s I don’t remember the exact
number if he was here he could tell you
28:32.5
28:38.7
exactly which number it was but mark
went into how to look at a chiller user
28:38.7
28:45.0
interface and figure out what’s going on
with the chiller and I can’t tell you
28:45.0
28:49.6
how many water treaters that I’ve spoken
with that are terrified to go up to
28:49.6
28:54.7
those chiller user interfaces to get
data off of folks if you are
28:54.7
29:00.4
uncomfortable with that ask somebody who
really knows the Machine if you know it
29:00.4
29:06.2
chiller tech very well they would love
to share their expertise with you and
29:06.2
29:11.8
show you how to navigate that but you
can then pull off data where you now
29:11.8
29:17.0
have proof that you’re either
maintaining the same efficiency or it’s
29:17.0
29:21.8
getting better or maybe it’s even
getting worse but now you can do
29:21.8
29:27.4
something about it instead of waiting
for the customer to say it’s not cooling
29:27.4
29:34.1
at all and my manager had to comp every
single room in the hotel so there’s data
29:34.1
29:39.1
out there we just have to use it and
make sure that we’re making decisions
29:39.1
29:45.1
with it folks there is no doubt about it
I love being a water treat or love
29:45.1
29:50.8
taking a water sample learning what’s in
it and learning the equipment that that
29:50.8
29:56.5
water is traveling through and making
sure that I create the best plan that I
29:56.5
30:03.6
can to keep that system as energy
efficient as it can be to minimize the
30:03.6
30:09.2
corrosion that is taking place in that
system now as a water treaty we also
30:09.2
30:15.1
have to make sure we’re keeping the
biological loading at bay and then all
30:15.1
30:19.2
the dirt and debris that’s coming in the
water or getting scrubbed out of the
30:19.2
30:22.9
if it’s a cooling tower we’ve got to do
something with that
30:22.9
30:29.1
as well in an upcoming episode I’m going
to be talking more about what the
30:29.1
30:35.2
difference is between a Legionella
prevention program and a regular
30:35.2
30:41.9
microbial program this short of it is is
that our job as water treatment
30:41.9
30:49.0
professionals is to make sure that we do
not grow microbial activity in the
30:49.0
30:55.8
system at a rate that retards heat
transfer or it doesn’t allow our
30:55.8
31:01.8
products to get to the metal surfaces it
is by no means making sure that the
31:01.8
31:07.9
system is sterile or eradicating a
specific species we’re going to be
31:07.9
31:13.4
talking specifically about Legionella on
some upcoming episodes and as you know
31:13.4
31:19.9
I’ve already spoken with other people on
scaling up h2o about Legionella so if
31:19.9
31:25.3
you want to check out those episodes I
highly recommend that you do that folks
31:25.3
31:32.2
early in my podcasting days episode 9
was when I interviewed Janet stout and
31:32.2
31:39.3
Janet stout is coming back on the show a
little later and she will tell us even
31:39.3
31:43.9
more about Legionella but if you want to
learn about Legionella episode 9 is a
31:43.9
31:48.3
great place to start and if you were
wondering what the differences are
31:48.3
31:53.1
between a regular water treatment
program and a due diligent Legionella
31:53.1
32:00.2
prevention water management plan then
you should listen to episode 83 I
32:00.2
32:05.5
interview Mac for eg and he tells us
exactly what the differences are and
32:05.5
32:11.4
what we should be prepared for to have
that conversation with the customer now
32:11.4
32:16.0
earlier in the show I mentioned the ones
about mark Lewis and those were episodes
32:16.0
32:23.0
31 and 34 I cannot remember which one he
talked about the chiller so you might
32:23.0
32:27.2
have to listen to both of them to find
that I think it was 34 but we had a lot
32:27.2
32:29.3
of fun on that episode and if you
haven’t
32:29.3
32:35.9
into that episode mark actually came to
my office to record the episode and if
32:35.9
32:40.5
anybody knows me you know I like to have
notes and I like to have things planned
32:40.5
32:46.6
out so not that we have a script but I
have a list of questions so I can make
32:46.6
32:52.4
sure that I keep the conversation going
so you the scaling-up nation gets the
32:52.4
32:58.4
information that you need right before
we turned on the microphone is Mark if
32:58.4
33:04.6
he needed anything and I was thinking
like a glass of water a more comfortable
33:04.6
33:09.6
chair something like that he said yeah
give me one moment he reaches over he
33:09.6
33:14.9
takes my notes he crumples him up he
then throws the crumpled up notes over
33:14.9
33:19.5
his shoulder and goes now I’m ready to
start so that’s what I had to deal with
33:19.5
33:24.7
on that episode and folks if you haven’t
figured out mark Luis and I are great
33:24.7
33:30.3
friends and we would not have met had we
not shared a love for the water
33:30.3
33:36.8
treatment industry and because we were
both involved in an industry association
33:36.8
33:44.4
we were able to meet and because we
volunteered together we got to know each
33:44.4
33:50.2
other we got to appreciate each other
and now we are excellent friends and we
33:50.2
33:56.1
make sure we become better water
treaters by continually challenging each
33:56.1
34:02.4
other so folks your job in addition to
understanding what you are doing on a
34:02.4
34:08.5
regular basis what is in your special
sauce and why you need to put it in one
34:08.5
34:14.2
type of water and not another you also
need to make sure that you’re involved
34:14.2
34:22.0
in whatever trade association allows you
to meet like people when you do that I
34:22.0
34:26.3
promise you will have more fun because
you’re no
34:26.3
34:32.8
an island if you have not gone online
and searched what industry associations
34:32.8
34:37.5
are available to you
I highly urge you to do that one nation
34:37.5
34:42.4
I again want to thank you for your
questions because of your questions I
34:42.4
34:50.7
have information to do podcast I am able
to send to you the right shows that you
34:50.7
34:55.4
want to listen to and it’s my hope that
when you listen to these it does
34:55.4
35:00.6
encourage you to learn something new it
encourages you to do something a little
35:00.6
35:06.1
bit different thereby making you a
better water treater folks if you’re not
35:06.1
35:11.3
better tomorrow than you were today I’m
going to have you consider that you’re
35:11.3
35:16.6
maybe not doing this job correctly and
if you stay stagnant too long I promise
35:16.6
35:22.9
you this job can get boring I’ve seen it
happen to so many people and I have
35:22.9
35:28.7
never been one of those people I have
never been bored in this job because I
35:28.7
35:34.2
always am trying to push myself by
learning new things by meeting new
35:34.2
35:39.9
people by doing things a little bit
different to see what the results are
35:39.9
35:45.3
and I’ve seen many people that just stay
stagnant and then they decide they no
35:45.3
35:50.9
longer want to be in water treatment
don’t be that guy don’t be that gal make
35:50.9
35:55.6
sure you take advantage of everything
the water treatment industry has to
35:55.6
36:02.5
offer you one of the cold brutal facts
as being a water treaty is we do not
36:02.5
36:09.2
have time to do the things that we need
to do to make sure that we are educating
36:09.2
36:14.9
ourselves so folks it is imperative that
when you find something that you can
36:14.9
36:21.0
educate yourself on like maybe this
podcast you take advantage of it maybe
36:21.0
36:27.4
you’re going to an industry associations
technical training that allows you to
36:27.4
36:32.5
take information and then take it back
into your field if you do it properly
36:32.5
36:37.7
now I’ve done several shows on how to do
those technical trainings properly but
36:37.7
36:43.5
now it’s up to you to get there
and do that another thing that you need
36:43.5
36:50.4
to do is to make sure you are keeping
your mind sharp and I think the best way
36:50.4
36:57.0
to do that is to read unfortunately we
can’t read until we’re at home and as a
36:57.0
37:01.7
water treat or we do a whole bunch of
driving and even though I have seen it
37:01.7
37:07.1
on the Atlanta Highways where people are
reading a book while they’re trying to
37:07.1
37:11.5
steal their car I hope nobody in the
scaling-up nation is doing that because
37:11.5
37:16.8
that is just not smart so how do you
read while you’re driving well you
37:16.8
37:21.3
already know the answer that is audible
and folks I can’t tell you how much I
37:21.3
37:25.7
love audible I can’t tell you how many
people in the scaling-up nation have
37:25.7
37:32.6
responded back to me to let me know that
audible is indeed that awesome tool that
37:32.6
37:37.5
I say it is because they are now able to
read now whether it’s a water treatment
37:37.5
37:45.2
book or it’s some Tom Clancy story it
still allows you to read now my hope is
37:45.2
37:48.8
is that you’re expanding your knowledge
and water treatment but if you’re
37:48.8
37:53.7
reading you are reading so by all means
check out audible I can get you a free
37:53.7
37:59.7
book and a free month by going to
scaling-up h2o com forward slash audible
37:59.7
38:05.1
and I would love it if you could tell me
what you think about it because I’m
38:05.1
38:10.7
pretty positive it’s going to allow you
to read again nation you know I can’t
38:10.7
38:15.6
end a show without asking you to
continue keeping those questions coming
38:15.6
38:22.3
so if you have an idea of what you want
me to talk about or you have a guest
38:22.3
38:28.1
that you want me to interview let me
know you can do that in several ways you
38:28.1
38:34.3
can go to scaling-up h2o comm and go to
the show ideas page and just type in
38:34.3
38:39.7
exactly what you are thinking another
way you can do it is as soon as you go
38:39.7
38:45.0
to scaling-up
h2o comm you will see an orange icon on
38:45.0
38:50.5
the right-hand side of the screen and
you can record a voicemail
38:50.5
38:56.5
who me asking your question now here’s
the cool thing about that if I use your
38:56.5
39:04.8
voice on the air you will get a scaling
up t-shirt so folks who doesn’t want a
39:04.8
39:12.0
scaling up t-shirt if you go to an AWT
event you are going to see many of these
39:12.0
39:17.9
scaling up t-shirts and people love them
because it just is fun and it’s cool to
39:17.9
39:23.5
wear so make sure you get yours make
sure you are keeping that information
39:23.5
39:29.5
coming to me and my ask also is that you
share this podcast with other water
39:29.5
39:34.3
treaters the bigger we get the scaling
up nation the better the information is
39:34.3
39:38.9
going to be and we’re actually going to
be able to make the water treatment
39:38.9
39:43.5
industry better folks thank you so much
for listening to scaling up h2o and I
39:43.5
39:47.1
will talk with you next week