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[Music]
welcome to scaling up the podcast for water traders by water treaters where we’re scaling up our water treatment
knowledge so we don’t scale up our systems hi everybody I am trace Blackmore and I want to thank the
scaling up nation out there for making this the number one water treatment
podcast out there to listen to to get information about water treatment and make sure that we’re getting better
tomorrow more so than we were today I’m not going to comment on the fact I think I’m the only podcast out there for water
Season Change
treatment but that’s beside the fact you guys are making this show very successful
you’re calling me you’re emailing me you’re telling me all these things you want me to talk about guests you want me
to interview and I’m getting great feedback on it so I want to thank you for all of that it’s allowing me to
bring the show to you and that being said we are getting ready for a season
change some of us live in areas of the country where we have to change seasons
from summer to winter to fall to spring all that very stuff and then some places
we live we just have one season so for the folks that are getting ready for a season change think about what needs to
be done to the equipment that we’re actually treating for example the cooling tower we’re probably going to
start scheduling or our owner or customer is going to start scheduling a
time to get the cooling tower cleaned what a great time to reach out to the
mechanical that’s going to be doing that and making sure that we can be on-site so we can see what’s coming out of the
chiller what’s coming out of the cooling tower maybe we have access to a borescope and we can schedule a
borescope for inside the chiller so anytime this equipments open it’s a
great time for us to reach out to the other people that are helping our customers take care of this equipment so
now might be a good time to do that by the way if your customer does not have
filtration on their cooling tower they should probably be cleaning their cooling tower men
twice a year and I know many property owners will think that you know they
want to save money on cleaning their cooling tower this year and it doesn’t look that bad so they’re gonna put it
off till next year please have a dialogue with your equipment owners to
make sure that they know that makes your job not only difficult but almost impossible it’s so much easier to keep a
clean system clean than it is to clean up a dirty system and there’s only so
much we can do with chemical there has to be a synergy with mechanical ie cleaning and chemical so please have
that conversation with them also whenever there is a season change it’s
recommended and many protocols that legionella testing been be done so maybe
they’re not doing monthly Legionella testing maybe you’re doing quarterly Legionella testing so now that the
season change has come that might be a good time to recommend that you do that any equipment upgrades or maybe you have
to change some product dosing on the controllers because now we’re going into
a different season and our loadings going to be different so just think about all the things that you have to do
the next time you go to service those accounts now that you’re in a different weather pattern the other thing I want
to ask the scaling up nation to do is not only listen to this podcast but let
other water treaters know that this podcast is available out there and then
when you do that please make sure that you subscribe to this show it’s great
that you’re going to the website and downloading it actually I put some buttons on there so you can actually
subscribe right off of the website but if you’re using a service like iTunes or
stitcher if you’re an Android person you can subscribe from those services as
well and then every time a new episode of scaling up comes out you will be
notified and that sucker will be on your device ready to go when you are ready to
listen to it so the last thing I wanted to mention and this is something that happened to me recently it was a cooling
tower controller and it just was not working properly it was putting weird stuff into
the program it wasn’t reading gibberish on the screen but there was just weird
anomalies that were happening that I did not program in and work with the
manufacturer and and really didn’t get great satisfaction from the manufacturer but we started looking for some other
issues and we found that electromagnetic interference was actually an issue at
this location so we bought a very inexpensive electromagnetic interference
filter and put that in between the line and the controller plug and we went
ahead and reset the controller and reprogrammed it and it seems to be
working fine and we were having issues on a weekly basis with this controller and with that electromagnetic
interference filter we actually have not had an issue for about three months now
so I’m putting that out to the scaling up nation because I’m curious if you’ve had issues like this when I called
manufacturers they say well you really shouldn’t have that problem somebody might be messing with the controller and
it doesn’t look like that’s the case so I’m just curious what other listeners
have experienced with that well my lab partner today is Jack Walker and Jack
Walker and I served on the board probably about 10 years ago maybe a
little bit longer than that I don’t want to date myself but that’s where I met Jack and and Jack’s just a heck of a
nice guy and and Jack is generation 1 in water treatment and one of the founders
of the Association of Water Technologies so I wanted to have him on the show and
talk about you know what changes he’s seen throughout his lifetime what was it
like from him transitioning his company to his children and just you know what
he thought about water treatment in general so I hope you enjoy my conversation with Jack Walker I’m here
Introduction
today with Jack Walker and Jack was the association of water tec-9 oh geez water technologist of the Year
Award recipient for 2017 probably the highest honor in the industry how are
you doing today jack jack well I was doing fine so they get to this anyway and now I’m just going fine
I’m overwhelmed about the introductions about there’s some but being the water
tree tour of the year there’s so many people within the industry are also
deserving of that award but I’m doing great and I’m glad that I’m I’m with you
to do this bug broadcast and you’re very humble about the award which is probably one of the reasons that you received it
yeah it’s just it’s overwhelming I I was shocked okay I can’t look around me but anyway well
Jack we really appreciate you being here and and you not known each other for a while we served on the board for a while
we’ve been on a couple of different committees together so thank you again for coming on the show there are a few
people out there that may not know who you are so you mind giving yourself a brief introduction to our audience yes
Jacks background
back in 1972 going back aways I got
involved with the chemical company that sold water treatment as a side is there
that’s not the remain product line but I was taking care of some steam boilers
with because of their product line then eventually I end up really alike in the
industry I finally went to the industry with a local regional company here in
Northern California and I really liked the industry I been there with them for
about 10 years there was a management change within the company itself and I felt the best for
both of us that I left that I believe their company I started my own is called water tech specialties we handled the
central in Northern California only that’s very large area to cover I really
didn’t want to be a large company never my mind is it’s just a lot of headaches
it just it’s overwhelming and I like being with the customers I like to be in
the field so that’s how we got started and that’s where we are today we deal
specifically for cooling towers and boilers we deal with a little bit of wastewater that’s not that just trying
to help out a customer the primary just the small of the commercial light
industry like food data centers lines like the customers like that is what we handle so I’m very proud of the people
that we do have have one gentleman L has been with me for about 26 27 years well
that’s saying something yeah he won’t leave I go ahead run yeah
I can’t try him but he keeps hanging around yeah just because he told me says
well I’m retiring is he looked asked missus uh tjaka you you’re you know when
you plan to create tires so I don’t plan to retire because he’s younger than me and so now he’s he’s beyond 65 and so I
thought I had replaced sadnesses well I think I’m paid stay until I’m 70 so he
used that 70 there right now but he says you know I might be staying a little bit longer this is fine with me does a good
job so we treat our employees like we treat our customers like they want to be
treated with respect so anyway so that’s that’s water tech that’s how I it sounds like a great
place to be Jackie said that one of your goals was not to be the biggest what was one of your goals when you started your
Jacks goals
company what I wanted I’d love the industry I love the people who is so
interesting the business I was dealing with I had food processing or some of
the food processing and some of I’m like I’ve never been into a mushroom farm
I see mushrooms on the market had no idea how they grow mushrooms so I’m
taking care of mushroom for the smell urea right yeah it’s well they used to
do we had a couple horse tracks in the Bay Area and there’s
only one left so once that was diminishing the supply they start making
the synthetic so mostly is synthetic today so anyway but then we have
processing apples and oranges and almonds so we I get to go inside and
actually see with a making orange juice work in mass quantities so the industry
is really great now I’m doing with data centers with what goes with the data center how is that taking care of wood
what’s that our concern how they maintain the systems so that’s very interest that’s reason like kind of like
the industry so in the meantime it was me personally saying and my goal wasn’t
saying gee I want to be you know take over this territory and that territory
and expand go to different states it’s never been my image I needed some help so I can say take some time off so I’m
satisfied so we we don’t have a lot of people but we have enough to sustain
what we have and take care of our customers has that’s my goal and I have
P I have some customers they want me to go down in LA I go no way we go down to the mid central California to northern
and I’m happy there’s a lot and there’s a lot there’s quite a few competitors but there’s a lot of business to go
around so that’s reason why I’m staying where we are it just being what is
always a small small company well good for you and it sounds like it sounds like it’s working out it sounds like the
employees are happy you’re happy but you did mention employees so when what what
do you look for when you look for employees hiring I find that hiring anybody in in the industry is very
Hiring
difficult on a piece of paper you can put down whatever you want to put down
but doesn’t really reflect that individual’s capabilities most of the
majority or I I see all except for one individual all been by referrals somebody that knows somebody so that’s
our screening process now that’s a little bit more difficult to sustain that most can most of times we’re
trained or people the people to come in they had the kerrick’s they have the great
attitude their willingness to learn and their people their people do your doing
when he talk like I keep telling my people when you go into an account who
hired you a person or is that boiler you’d be really nice in that boiler but they’re not nice to that manager or
supervisor guess what you’re not going to keep that account I don’t care how happy that boiler is so I want a we meet
people that are energetic and they smile well you know to a lemon
if you fall on the point yet to show your teeth but to be nice and to be cordial and the respond
I’ve had one competitor and he lost some discs all he would do he’d come in there write a report and a tub and leave Lily
communicate very little communication whatever is there is like a computer walks up and your piece of paper okay
I’m done I li I go that’s it people are giving with people and then when you’re
dealing with people people like you guess what they might want to do somebody says oh by the way I have a
friend down the street he needs some help guess what you just got a referral and
that’s it that’s kind of business isn’t it I just got a call yesterday and they said oh by the way so somebody referred
you it’s a data center I don’t have an appointment with them at one o’clock and
ends up people have my older customers I lost through a bit that he won because
of mine the way we take care of a data center and reclaim water with great
success the words getting around they want they’re gonna put reclaimed water into their system and start using them
and so now it says okay so now so no longer they’re going with that cheapest
price for the quote now they’re looking for the proper technology but what it
was is referral because of taking care of somebody is referral so on how I got
into that tangent but we’ll go from there yeah it was a good one it just shows that you know people are paying
attention to how you’re acting and what you’re doing and if you do a good job you’re going to give referrals well Jack
something that you do very successfully is you have some of your kids working in
your business and I’ve done some interviews with people to ask how the
company works when it’s not just employees but now it’s family and you
guys seem to make that work very well any tips on how you do that oh boy
Family
never in my life never in my life I would think I would have mine I have two
children and they both work for me ones very good in the office that’s my
daughter that’s Bonnie my son Scott we did old blending years ago and just got
out of hand with a regulatory and the city were in so my son went into it as a
tech then after that he went in he wanted to be in the sales getting new ones plus was tech service and because
of our training he ends up being CWT as well so so he understands the outside it
understands the quoting he understands the people he understands the industry boris and Cooling’s all the different
you know food processing data center you understand so he’s out there so that’s gone but now bonnie
she’s on side and so sighs worked out very well I I did not plan it this way
Planning
might I wish the second well back in nineteen and back in the 70s I thought
no I first started my business in 83 this is my ultimate goal no you know
eventually my son was help what helping me out and part-time why he’s going to
school and my daughter and she actually and went to college when she came back
she ends up being working for us in the office and it just they just happen that
way I had hooked this way I didn’t blasted how do you plan for this I’ve
heard too many times or somebody would say I had my kids and they’re not
interesting you must have an interest they have an interest I don’t care what you’re doing
if you don’t have an interest it’s on the long term it’s not going to work so
whatever you’re doing if you’re doing something like a site with your job right now if you’re doing something and
you really don’t like it I can’t news for you you got a big thing about it twice because it’s not going to work for
you work for you in the long term how many times there’s many many times I’ve heard so many people because I’m towards
well the retirement age yes I know a lot of people I know that are be tired soon
as they got to the point I’m retirement age they cut to all sprinkler introductory and done that I asked him
why and he says because I did not like my job I’m not retiring cuz I like my
job so here yes I just don’t like work and I don’t seriously I don’t work eight
hours a day I will limit that because if you ever see one of my kids don’t say that so let the cat out of the bag there
sorry but in ten minutes but I like what I’m doing so you know would you like
Value
it’s it’s not work no it’s not work I enjoy it just like all of a sudden no
I’m doing this site tour this guy has a daddy takes care of a data center is
interested and a data center I take care of it says hey take been taken care of
it spins are very successful we like to use your system and what might my son
there were this guy is coming from we used to have in that account my son used to take care of it and the reason why
we’re no longer taking care of it because management went out to bid which they they do periodically and the other
company came just a it was dollars and engineering there at the facility says
why you getting redder tech so will the other companies cheaper you realize what value would they give us cuz I don’t
care about value all I need is says I have a budget and the guys are cheaper yeah that’s why we lost it is
unbelievable but now they’re looking at now and performance with something with
our industry changes all of a sudden who ever heard using waste water our eclipse
excuse me we use a lot of reclaimed water it’s very common ago so yeah that’s
definitely one of my pet peeves too and when you’re doing a great job and it goes out for bid and pennies on the
dollar it comes in and they say we can no longer we love what you’re doing but she
can’t do it anymore with us because somebody was 20 cents cheaper what are you here with that so you know hopefully
in a very soon day and age the people that are in charge of the budgets will
realize it’s not just what they’re spending on water treatment but it’s really the whole bottom line how much
they spend on water how much they spending on energy and then what is that partnership like with the owner with the
people that are taking care of the equipment and the people that are taking care of water treatment and there’s just no line item for that in the budget yet
We fail
right and this is something that we fail and I think a lot of people are the
water treatment companies also failed the people are making decision a lot of times they don’t understand our industry
mm-hmm if you actually used to talk about the budget guide if you take your mail and and says all right point to the
boiler the puppy you’re coming when we have a steam boiler I actually had one says we still have steam boilers today
I’m serious all right odd I just sit there was like okay in a
hospital how do you think they sterilized the instruments hmm how do they cook the food then the food into
you know then you start saying like that mitching different industry then they’re
sit there all of a sudden the light comes on like oh there are steam boilers so the thing that is we’re not educated
like the individual is making these decisions sometimes do not know the
industry they don’t understand and to get fouling on the tubes and you don’t have that puppet heat exchange they get
money going out the stack they will see that all they all they can see is how much the pain out not the damage so a
great suggestion would be you know befriend these people make sure they know what your value is so they’re not
just looking at how much you’re costing they’re looking at how much you’re actually giving them in value
you need to find the decision-maker wherever it is and a lot of time is not
in the department to deal with as somebody what we call being illness what
do you want to call there’s a term and it’s been used on the show before okay
Theres a term
good I did not be too demeaning but meaning they they just look at numbers they don’t comprehend it all of a sudden
they look at the value they’re just looking a number the value somehow you had to install and still the value of
what you’re doing what you’re providing and some are just strictly by I might
have had this is strictly by numbers is no little bit cheaper and go wait a minute wait a minute says though just
cheaper that individual somehow to get to them before they make that decision or while I’m making the decision to
educate them some help but a lot of times that’s not possible well that’s great advice I’m thinking back and I know we as a company have
lost an account for five dollars a month and and I get five dollars and if you
look at all of the things we were able to do within the four or five years that we were at that account it was truly
amazing they were having issues with exchangers going offline the chill are
not looking very good and they didn’t have those problems anymore the problem we had is we forgot to remind them that
it wasn’t smooth sailing before we were there and then they put it out to bid and they forgot that water treatment
could cause problems if it wasn’t done correctly now the good news was they called us back when it didn’t work out
but that doesn’t always happen not I’ve had that happen where we were they
They called us back
thought they had a better option so he went out and they found out that better
option did not turn out to be a better option the sad part of it is I went back
some time later Oh six months a year later I found out they had a different water treatment
company not the same one because the other one did not perform but the individual who fired us hired someone
else they didn’t work out he had to fire them last thing you want to do is to call me
back because of the egg on his face that is a sad part and it is really nice when
they do have a problem they realize like we made a mistake we need to keep you or
me or wherever it is they did a good job let’s bring them back a lot of times sometimes it does happen a lot of times
it will not because they’re embarrassed there is a problem that’s a great point
you know something my dad taught me was you know in this situation you know you’re not going to keep the business
there’s no reason to get upset leave with a very good taste in everybody’s
mouth if you will and leave very graciously are there any tips that you could give our listeners on how to do
that ah good point well when you are being fired I give one example I was being fired
I was being fired
once again I I’m doing my due diligence on the chemistry part making sure
everything was nice and clean the older heat exchangers okay fine I provided a certain on the service as promised I and
and actually provided that service the reports were in line medications was
good and all of a sudden one day the manager hey by the way new manager I’ll
underline that new one days has got you go to replay and I’m gonna have Brand X
and I looked at him and I said wait a minute am i providing the proper service
yes am i keeping your equipment clean yes my pricing is it friendly in line yes okay so really you’re not saying I
did anything wrong that is correct and it says and I told the customer and this
is look I have a reputation to uphold all of a sudden they find that I lose this account in the second oh oh what
did Jack do them what happened a water tank says so now am I losing it because you know somebody and that because my
performance AC I could handle that but if I’m being fired because you think
I’m incompetent he says no no no he says really it says I didn’t work with this
guy another plant I’ve known it for years and kind of like Prince since I can handle that that’s no problem this
is good luck to you but if you do have a problem give me a call little hard to contain with that yeah no you can’t but the
meantime on the other hand I picked up several accounts where aces hey Jack you
want a new account I picked it a big-ticket addicted data center because of one of the guys used to do with for
years started there and there and they’re building this new data center he says Jack you want a new account cuz
You want a new account
yeah says were you Brian says I’m over here I says what are you doing there
never heard oh it just does new startup so do you want it what do you mean do I want Christmas look every day oh yeah so I
picked up accounts that way so I realize I had sometimes taken away from me as
sometimes I take away from other people the best thing to do a pause a question make sure you have an exit interview you
might want to say it’s like when you quit a lot of times the company says alright HR says we like to have an exit leave
exit interview same thing with your customer and ask I want to know if I’ve
done something wrong or some kind of correction find out learn what if there is a mistake learn from your mistakes
take something positive away from it don’t go because number one the louder
you grumble or if you start grumbling that’s going to be a negative and sometimes these people don’t stay in
that one position sometimes they travel to another and all of a sudden you’re going to find out that guy you were
grumbling with and admit you know whatever you might have said you end up
all of a sudden a year later you get a new manager at one of your old accounts
and guess who did he guess who he is the guy that you were given you know grumbling well so you left a bad taste
of his mail now he is your new boss so that hat that can’t happen and has
happened there’s one account and the hospital and the specs so they did what
I won’t mention the brand they didn’t want Brand X answers so they put all new
chilled resume I don’t want Brand X and they’re on a big contract so don’t want them so they
couldn’t bid on because the be out of warranty that was in the specs so I went in there
I said vote this is we’re going to give you a contract for the year for the warranty and it says jessamine and then
I said well he says you know why the requirements being replaced because bran is I don’t think it’s a new bot
I don’t think Brand X has been taking care of it that’s the reason after 20 years we have to replace all this equipment and so I I told him says look
with this new equipment you’re not this is in the specs it says not to use you
go with the design mechanical I could not believe it even say that and so when they told granex by the way we’re not
going to be using it for a year the guy really got upset how can you do that
this was not my decision it’s in the specs and says I have a year warranty
and I have to abide by the warranty so ok this is what you know those chemicals
and it says there are chemicals so we’re gonna have to pop a mountain old your chemicals but during our tanks rat to
take the tanks he goes on and up he was making this chief engineer extremely
unhappy and so by the way all this information came from the chief engineer
when I had an interview with him about our contract before that one year he says you know that guy just burnt the
bridge I don’t want him back so did you see there’s an exit there’s an exit plan so the exit plan he was taken all right
Exit plan
I’m gonna make a big drama because you’re not gonna use me for the year yeah yeah yeah in the meantime you just
forget it so when you leave find out why what happened is it cost is it money on this
one data center that Scott will lost it was strictly on money and then and the
engineer you told us as hey I’m already sorry since this is what you were really like this is what in two years that
comes up to bid again and it says he says I can’t help you offices this is I
I highly recommend you and these are the same guys right now her about what we’re
doing with reclaimed water is now I have an appointment with them today so we
left it we didn’t grumble we left very you know
and in a peaceful way she might want to say and say if you ever have any
problems give me a call and and then it doesn’t hurt to go back now on them give
them six months hey how’s it going to stop by to see whatever don’t lose contact remember people are buying the
product not the cooling tower not the steam water is the person anyway that’s a great tip and I think that’s a
something that people need to consider when they’re servicing their accounts the cooling tower season the chiller
season does that customer see them that’s right great tip well you’ve mentioned several things that lend
themselves to sales no referrals making sure you’re always talking to the right people you’ve been very successful in
this industry what tips can you give our listeners to what they should be doing
Sales tips
when it comes to sales sales today versus earlier on right now is very
difficult to see people is unbelievable they used to have you walk into a
building you would have a lobby and there’d be somebody there sitting in the
lobby yes they help you they I talked to whatever you know that trying to
cultivate trying to find that then isn’t poisonous oh well that’s mr. so-and-so well should I contact him or whatever
well can you call it and make an appointment now you’re walking into a lobby you’ll see a phone says oh there’s
a directory push but and which one you want and you’re not going to get directly to that person you’re going to
get a may a particular department so it makes a little bit more difficult it’s
to me it’s the networking how in sales is networking your existing accounts ask
hey do you know of anybody I found at a hospital do you know anyone else in the
hospital or or there’s another hospital so do nobody in them in that hospital
you’re going to find out a lot of people if they’re in a bakery these people or
bakeries they move because it’s kind of unique in dust though the engineers moved to different
bakeries though they might go did different industry but more likely they’ll go to another bakery in us in
there and there if this in the near area hospitals people are in hospitals where
they go they’ll go to the next hospital so what I’m trying to say all of a sudden you’re in you’re in a hospital
and you get to know the guy because you know you’re mr. nice guy and cordial
you’re not talking your ear off but you’re being pleasant with them saying hey general um do you know a song slow
down you know across across town of this hospital oh yeah they not volunteer it
Community organizations
but they’ll let you know it says all you know so sudden oh my cousin works there uh do you mind let him know that kind of
contacted this guy let me see what I can do for you that’s one way to do it other
they have different associations like the Balmer where managers will meet and
you need to be involve there because you get to meet you end up in these
different organizations you get to meet these people and a meeting they do but we never see them otherwise as you
walked up to a building as you can if you can make a presentation I traced I
know you do a lot of training a lot of presentations and this is very helpful when you go to the account and say hey I
like to make them or you say you get some people together I make a make a presentation they say if you they see
your capabilities exposure as branding other words oh yeah crisp like more I
know him it’s not like trace who s so
you want to get your name out there and expose and so if there’s different
organizations service organizations in your area join them other type of
community organization because now you’re going to deal with a lot of managers or possibly owners and you get
your get your face recognition and so good oh yeah oh so and so we just met
someone here just a association found out the local university whose
right up with Brand X and I found that this guy – project manager he does all
the scheduling and he found out we are another a social event found out that
this guy started talking we’re in the same industry and it goes oh yeah I’ve
Water treatment industry
heard of you guys you know it’s the same you know I’m the coordinator whatever says just give me a call – like we do
for you guys that’s how it works but if I went to the University trying to knock on the door what door do I knock on and whose go
recognizing or is a doorbell there’s no door males anymore that’s electronics they’re very very
good to us in the water treatment but also the same electronics it keeps us out of locked doors
oh well great advice great information Jack you said you’ve been in the water
treatment industry since the 70s what are some of the biggest changes that you’ve seen in our industry what one
thing for as a chemistry there’s two things one is the chemistry different
type polymers were not available back then I can still remember where they’re using a dispersant made from the potato
peels and but I think some of the biggest is that communications like with
it the cooling tower controller before there’s a brand I know for those ahead
in the business Braylon is called a hide act as just it was an analogue is anyone it had a dial where you went to TDS
reading that was it that was it in it turn the pump on and off according to your set point and then you had to buy a
separate little timer your buying side now the communications they kept web you
go on the web you can view things you had graphs I am book I have a computer program so I’ll use the one account when
my water software is a very integral part of the water treatment program and
I get a readout once a month of your once every once a day it shows me if it
regenerated if it regenerated properly to a graph so I don’t have to run out to
that cooling tower to make sure or that steam boiler is my water softener working properly that is how
far we came other than with half of what the controllers can do for it to me is
the biggest change in communications when I first started in the change I had
to call the office on a payphone yeah I’m sorry what technology did you just
mention to pay what pay phone Oh Oh a pay phone make you tell my communications about the changes in our
industry I’m just easier Jack oh oh stop that so and I knew every pay phone in my
Communication
whole area by the way that’s before cellphones if you can believe that no cell phones everything is by paper
disorder so then it’s written and but it’s still communications we communicate different most of our calls come to the
front office now we bury some ever we don’t get we get named one tenth of the
phone calls today we have a lot more customers we do a lot more business rare
phone doesn’t ring that often wine got emails I get texts and we also sell
phones right now I’m on a cell phone our vacuum em when we first came up with cell phone you
would ask your contact for your cell phone he wouldn’t give it to you this is don’t you just call the office now if
you look on this business card that’s there I looked on your card trace and your cell phones then your friend
numbers in whatever your hem how do you want to communicate to me that is one of the biggest changes to me biggest change
is communication but you have to stay on top of it but still be dealing with the people but plus like a saint the
polymers the way we’re doing things is a little bit different perform own the
things well I I can’t say that all my heat exchangers were that claim earlier
on we used to do a lot of acid cleaning back in the days about a third of my
businesses acid cleaning now I had a call to do an acid clean job for Steam
border a couple of months ago and almost reaching here but it was a new account
I said well going there they can you know maybe I can get my foot in the door through the water treat
but I really want to do acid cleans anymore and I very something ever get a call yes there are some hiccups don’t
get me wrong but you don’t see that very often because our chemistry our endeavor he has improved immensely
Jackie remember the chromate nasod days I fit I will say what University there’s
Chromate
only versity near me and clubbin acid right no I was you know get that you can
adjust your LSI to the ass of your ph your alkalinity is true that’s worried
about corrosion use the chromates right well when they ever start coming out where they’re going to ban chromate I
told the universities right no one they’re going to ban chromate and it’s
just you know you wanna let you know maybe out again on these new organic type chemicals if you’re away from this
hazardous material the kind of told this is look you tell me I must anal
chromates until they day they banned it okay so one day if funding can’t do this is a guess what they just banned this is
okay whatever it is watch me over Ilyana so those have been very successful yes but I do look I remember
coming yes and I yeah I do remember some accidents with the acid yeah well Jack
what was something that you thought was just brilliant in theory you came up with this idea and you say this is just
fantastic I’m going to put this out and you rolled it out and it was just an epic fail oh well there was but there
are certain things a certain products way they’re packaged and you thought that’d be a great idea and you find out
and you thought well gee but if I had this type of product that no one else is
they’re going to stay with it and not necessarily so I was a little
disappointed that but I think this main to me is I had another company we
started and it was related to our industry well and so I was operating two companies in
the water treatment was their main and I had found out that’s that’s not good so
you need to be focused on one thing one investor you were spread too thin Mars yeah it’s just yeah so and there again
you have to launch your product line we want to get really big really start working as an example kind of rolling
out this waste water then it really found out in waste water you talk about
you mentioned before you’re lost because of five bucks or whatever the others they’re down to piñas a pound says all
this guy chooses cheaper there’s there’s no loyalty when it comes down to waste water so acts is one thing that I really
tried and then trying to discourage people from waste water don’t get the wrong I’m not tryna Annabelle we still
take but you need the general information because when I was told in the waste water it it is somebody
another if they’re having fun with waste water at your account and they’re having a problem you’re not taking care of it
you just open the door for another company to come in there to take care of
the waste water great card ended over there looking at the businesses all you got it who it is however over there so
in the meantime they’re helping them out with waste why use it what they need help for the waste water they’re not in
compliance then they’re being charged for the extra co DS the DoD’s where the
case may be and it gets to be a really big headache and so the main time is the
steam boiler and coolant are it just chunks along you know if you have it
your basic comprehensive tower water program it works there’s no big science
else to do us with us I’m it’s really simple to take wastewater the flow changes the pH change whatever and
everything goes upside down so if they have somebody come there to resolve that problem so the only time so I got it so
I got it into the wastewater understanding what’s not raining different people because what I wanted
to do case they do have a problem with waste water of do have wastewater I want to be involved
with it to prevent someone else jump in the fence and looking over there and saying well we’re taking her the
wastewater it’s like put your head you know the Campbells put his head in the tent you don’t want you don’t want that
to happen so the meantime but then I took it one step further well actually start going after wastewater accounts
that was not a good thing so we do our
own but then all of a sudden now you’re competing with other people who have that larger company and they have a
water treatment division mm-hmm they buy a little bit better than I can so that
that was this wastewater so wastewater really is a commodity type business as
when you Sam oh yeah oh definitely definitely definitely good good good point well Jack you mentioned earlier that if you
What Jack loves about the industry
don’t love being in this industry that you suggest people find an industry that
they do love and it’s very apparent that you truly do love this industry what are
some of the things about this industry that you love ah good question um did
what I I think where I really is it a great accomplishment just thinking
yourself and you have all this great knowledge so many hands a problem there have a pitting problem maybe they can’t
control a certain chemistry whether they can case maybe you come in there and you resolve that and all of a second wow she
really thinks it gives you a nice satisfaction that you helped somebody
and you applied the knowledge you have learned so problem solving and then stop
the thing when you go into the kiln and the account itself is to do append and
you’re going through and you look at all the chemistry your what’s the report
you look at the past cleaning reports everything’s in line well it’s kind of
hard to second well everything looks good here just Laramie can tell like
occupy so there’s no challenge the problem solving is the challenge or
is it the other side I go into an account and they have a problem this is
ah I can resolve this this is how it could be done be careful about that too
because I’ve lost more than one account earlier on I’m learning says all you
have to do you do this that resolve that problem you with that kind in this is
the real true story okay the manager says oh you need all of our problems or
based on this one thing if we do this Oh change it says Jung a – is this a
no-brainer like duh so what happened this is oh let me ask my water trigger
if he can do that I don’t fail us all what did i do shoot myself in the foot
you got to be kidding me so Jack let me ask because I know that comes up a lot you’re you’re surveying a new account you really want to show off
that you can do a better job and the people that are there now and my proof for that is to solve this problem so
what do you do well well let’s put this way if you give away the secrets of what
wouldn’t what do you really think they’re going to hurt you value you can’t you got to assess that in your
own mind if I tell them turn this valve halfway down and it’s going to resolve
the problem who do you think they’re going to do turn the valve half way down down what value are you to them it’s
gone now primarily what we do we do second we can come up with a plan we
know what’s going on and this is the results that we’ll give you but I’m not
going to tell them how we got them how we derive to the results other words when you hire me I will give you the
results if you don’t get the results you fire me so then you stop the take ball
aren’t you shoot yourself in the foot you know no because I’m something that
simple turn the valve down one that one case is like he wasn’t blowing the
border down long enough I’m serious he was not blowing the border down long enough we just don’t blow down a little
bit more your conductivity comes down stop Terry over the fog goes on and on is he got to be kidding me
that’s all I gotta do the guy who is taking term the water trailer did not understand the basic principle was a
problem and he wasn’t that well trained and so we saw a very simple very simple
solution we told the solution the owner told the water trigger what to do everything
calmed down he goes okay we’re good oh you don’t need you know so what I’m trying to say so now or that same
situation if I had to go back in time we know how to get resolved and this is the results that we can give you and just if
it says I can give you that if you hire me well let me ask you how would you
How to explain to a prospect
cordially explain to that prospect that you know that information because you
are properly trained you’ve been in this industry and you know what you’re doing so much better than the person that they
currently have so yes you told them to turn that valve or blow it down more and they can do that but how do you say
politely what happens when the next problem comes up and I’m not around to tell them what to do
are you okay restate that question I might just wandered off sure so so basically you have the
know-how of telling the rifle that you want to turn that bow down and it’s
going to solve your problem you want to blow the boiler down to solve that problem but that came from you not the
person doing their water treatment and the fact that they told the people that were doing their water treatment your
recommendation what happens when another problem comes along and you’re not I’ll
give that optimization yeah hopefully yeah I understand what the same if you
but then if they’re having a problem that simple of a problem I would stay
close that account I would call that guy maybe once a month over a month stain face to face and somewhat a
problem Dennis come up he says you know that guy was right the first time this is so in other one comes up that
the same guy asked me again the second you know I can do it says but you have to hire me he’s on the computer so in
that state so I understand what you’re saying but given a freedom nation we’re not consultants you know if
you find a consultant painting if you didn’t go to a consultant says hey I got a problem with my border can you help me
out here oh I sounds when they got now I’m not gonna pay you know we’re different consultants you don’t act like
consultants you should they say if you want to pay me I can correct it I see
your problem I assess it now I I have a similar account that’s another thing when you
first start industry different ask who do you take care of think about it who do you take care of once you’ve been an
industry Auto denote then I only start mentioning industry then you start
throwing out names cuz though I know him oh I know him because you realize who’s
in the industry he may no that’s because like I say if I’m at a bakery first
thing I do all I do is talk about bakeries people in the bakeries again
wouldn’t window in a proposal give me a reference do you think I’d give them a
reference of a data center that’s not a bakery I’ll give a reference to the hospital that’s not you know did they’re
just as critical there’s a bakery and austell but it’s not a the bakery guy is
that’s a list book we’re different so I don’t that answer your question no I
Make references
think I think it’s a great point you know I’m asking you for some references so I can prove to myself that you’re the
right company to come in and take care of my bakery so give me like companies that show that you’re taking care of
them I think it’s an excellent point only I guess whatever you do make sure we make referrals you talk to someone
else he’s in the same industry because I had been in a situation after what it was and it was on other than a
mushroom farm if I mentioned is a steam steam boiler that’s all it is right and
just live steam that goes into the room for the the heat divinity but the thing
that is if I start talking about a steam generator for something else and
different industry it can care less says Oh mushroom for you know Jones hill over
here at the I got him yeah is this how it works oh you know the consultant for you know for your
investment well I know him well they can’t I go reference but other than that but you know you need to know that
industry it’s the main thing with some to start now you need to know their industry how they work how they behave
what type of Association they belong to who they’re related to because people
travel within your industry because because you stop to think of the guy at the hospital okay this guy who manages
cooling towers and chillers and steam borders at a mushroom important okay a big plant and yet they has all the
latest technology as far as controlling the controllers now take this guy out of
place and have him apply a job over at a hospital oh you’re at a hospital yes and
you give this guy’s a reference he’s going second he’s a mushroom farm what if they know but they had same type
equipment in the same responsibilities I’m maintaining the equipment but he’s
hanging himself he’s an efficient form he doesn’t understand our industry wait a minute I chose a chiller water is a boiler okay
with your father point it’s a great point Jack let me ask you this so what do you see other water treaters out
Not being well trained
there doing that you really wish they’d stop doing oh man setting people out not
being well trained let me explain never setting about this one I think example
but the guy was not blood down his border properly sure and high alkalinity
is whatever and in the meantime that customer is going to think to himself
wait a minute this guy doesn’t know this guy’s ID does though they do they’re
kind of thing of the industry like what these small water treaters but now you had these larger companies and they’re
well branded and next thing you know you might be leaving yourself open for the people just thinkin I don’t deal with
what’s the regional warranty I won’t deal with somebody as the larger company
is because they’re well-trained and you have to remember there’s I haven’t been
the count I picked up from the hospital and it was one the larger companies and they were
having problems they call it a consultant consultant came in checked everything out and we got down to
similarly basic things it was they had three having petty problems it was primarily it was sulfite the commuters
at the hospital would not pain train properly they’re not running the test on a regular basis they’re having low
sulfites or an oxidation problems so the consultant says I need to interview your
water trigger so the consultant train interviewed the water trigger and it
says a look at these reports and he showed the engineers lobs and there were
low sulfite readings you think the thing wrong there’s is no no and there are low readings and the water treat or do but
he didn’t pick up on it at all and he says how would you get through sulfite reading the pointer I’m serious and the
guy was stumbling and this guy is came from the larger water treatment company so what it was he wasn’t trained
properly so you get a person who’s not trained properly especially a regional
and he does a bad job it’s going to put a bad taste in our the regionals we’re
just as confident probably they’re well trained with these larger companies and
but yet they can give the regional companies a bad bit well I doubt we’re
the second well maybe I should dealt with the bigger companies he’s a legacy sick pack but whatever that means today
not around anymore da no I guess I the
other day was tell my six pack and I was I was trying to name the six Aiona can come up with five but anyway that that’s
I just digress but you kind of follow what I’m trying to say sure so so your
plea is more to the company owner that when you’re sending new people out make sure that they’re trained at least well
enough so it looks good on their company and the industry yeah don’t come up with
a bonehead simple they see all really yeah I didn’t know that or
oh I miss that the and today in the training look what a WT has done look at
the training there’s no to me there’s no excuse we we have some text out in the field they’ve been the training twice
already and we we have our own training don’t get me wrong but we still take
them to the AWT training which is is so important it’s what when I was yeah when
I first turned out there was no such thing I wanted IWC s is all right there in what Pittsburgh
and the papers that was presented we’re high pressure boyars you’re talking
about high sting forwards the regeneration whatever it I didn’t learn a lot this is where I WT comes a little
bit but now you’re down to the basics that we can handle these commercial and
light industry so you’re using a WT to enhance what you already have Oh 100% how to preserve personal you
know I hear the guy that does that math presentation rate uh BT is pretty good really
Jack let me ask Isis what was sort of thank you like yourself and other people
doing the training which is so important well I appreciate that and it’s definitely a labor of love and as I’ve
said on this show before you know if we’re all better then people are going to look at the industry better and just
like you just said now we don’t have that battle to fight when we’re going in and talking with people like oh yeah I
know your kind everybody’s doing a little bit better and we don’t have that argument all right I can remember what a
WT was around in his infant stage that some of the people were saying somebody
would leave when the larger companies and then go in business for themselves like and a few of us well what what
happened the customer was second oh says I know Joe used to work for us the
bigger company now he has he good in himself think of it is he is Dodgeville
we left yes at that point he was knowledgeable up on the latest technology in the chemistry
and all the new chemicals going out reporting whatever think of it is he’s
known in a vacuum because he doesn’t have access to our training that was one
the objection that was years ago guess what they can’t use that any longer they cannot say by the way you’re
living in the vacuum we’re on top of technology great trick look at look over
the we’ve had leaders in our industry and looking for the Legionella CDC
you’re talking about all of a sudden a second well they have what they’re talking about what we’re we’re on top of
it this is really great that’s eight of you tears to me was as a gold mine which act let me ask you about
AWT what are when did you first get involved with a WT and what was that
experience like well a WT I was going to IWC international water conference there in
Pittsburgh and I heard that a WT is going to be
informed and I’m one of the charter members so that’s how it got started and we actually we piggybacked on IWC IWC we
could not hold it at the same time so we did I think their conference up on
Saturday and Sunday we’d had the same hotel and it was just a handful of
people I just I just unbelievable so I I watch it grow through the years and now
it’s it’s an industry it’s huge you know air and all of a sudden you’re talking
about podcast whoever I ever stopped to think back then when they start talking
about all this and I would I don’t wait here do we start 85 86 something like
that I should know that and I don’t know the exact founding date will delete that
no but no I was funded from the get-go and but in the meantime you’re sitting
in a room with your competitor try to share information that was strange
down look at people what they’re sharing and their competitors are in the same
room there to help the industry you have to remember you have to keep focused for
the regional companies for them to stay strong we have to work together
otherwise you’re going to be consumed next thing you know we’re going to had the six-pack all over again well there
you go well Jack let me ask you how do you learn new things about water treatment
what do you do good question one I rely a lot on the AWT leave the color with
different training modules I forget what they call them now when you go on the
website and every section they’re going to have a certain things that way I’m reading articles different trade
magazines that’s my primary source then if I have a question I know other people
in the industry of AWT that I’ve made friends with I second which might
explain what they’re talking about or is it worthwhile does it really work
I just found out one just a couple days ago this is I heard about it I see it but can I really believe it pickups oh
definitely it really works I’ve been doing this for years and I go really yeah so understanding saves certain
technology but the last thing we’ll do it experiment with my customer sure
enough I there’s some people I want mix companies not regional but the larger
companies they’ve done that more than once killing oh there’s no work okay change
that or two we do do something different yeah so anyway well Jack who above all
else has helped you learn the most in this industry it’s not I understand what
you’re saying it’s not what individual I’ve made many well it’s been since the
whatever the concept of aw team since the 80s I made a lot of friends and I
come to Loggins we’re talking about deaerators are we talking about different styles of chores are different
types of cooling tires I know we had a program we talked about WT about
passivation I talk to different people about how they do it what’s the result and I’m
finding different ways of doing it that I have to evaluate that and so I cannot
say this just one particular individual I was on my own to start out with with a
little bit of training a little bit of knowledge then I have grown with the
industry with the helps of ewt through that I had contacts and I learn through
them so specifically and you have to realize a lot of us are applicators
we’re not the ones that creates the molecules or can split the molecule but
wooden were the applicators is one guy was a research chemist was a member of a
WT and I was talking to him about that he says Jack you’re an applicator did
you understand the technology you apply it and it says you’re not expect to know
all the molecules how things were put together but you understand if I have this and I put that together that will
do this because of our training so most of us are applicators we’re not
scientists that’s I don’t know if that answers your question all right well no it sounds like you
equate you know getting new information as well as what’s helped you most learn that information with the AWT I can’t
think of a better resource and I’m surprised when I talk to people outside of people like yourself who’s been
involved with leadership of AWT how underutilized that organization is oh
really there’s one thing well I’ve learned we go back in the 70s a read
this book and one thing was they’re talking about the Ford the original Ford and somebody won the newspapers back in
New York saying that he does not have the capabilities of running the Ford
Company if someone else is doing it he is just a figurehead or took offense to
that he was the prove it so he took him to court this is that than wrong and so
boards attorney and head sport on the witness stand mister and it says you run this company says
yes you over over say it all says yes you’d make a lot of decision yourself is yes okay I want to ask you some general
question are you familiar what and they were talking about Caesar they talked
about the some just general information whatever and so I’m not aware not aware
not aware and it says do you understand the calculus is know you understand
something about the style the bookkeeping goes no you understand something event to design how this is
done what format and he goes don’t this is mr. Ford how can you explain you just
told us that you don’t really have a lot of this general information that’s
required oh now you say you actually run this company yourself this is yes I do
I’m in my direction well if I had a design whatever it’s isn’t patty how do
you do this this is well I’ll tell you what on my desk I have a big panel there’s a lot of but if I want to know
if I have an idea and I want to know how this worked in the design I push a button cuz he knows he can come up with
that answer and this can be done or if it cannot be done if I were know something specifically about bookkeeping how this
is all being creative or whatever I push a button aces is where you get the
information since I had the knowledge what I think I had the vision I’m visionary since I don’t need to know the
details I hire the people for the details so this one II by the applicator
so I have learned I don’t have to be this well-rounded research chemist all
need to know is what needs to be done how you be done who can i buy to get
that answer but that’s that’s how it works well Jack let me ask you if you
are ready for the bonus questions oh oh we got bonus quad we have bonus
questions yes that wasn’t in your original contract so I apologize about that okay at the five dollar what is
so these this has been a great interview you know we’ve had a couple of things
that we were hoping to talk about but our dialogue back and forth I think is given our listeners just just some great
things to consider and I really appreciate that but these questions are more just so people can get to know Jack
Walker a little bit better so and their point value is worth double so you can
win the game Oh or it’s a ten dollar question okay great all right so if you had a time
machine and you could go back in time to the first day you started as a water
treat what advice would you give yourself from what you know now I think I mission that
is earlier on for other people I would take the same advice is know the
industry so I go into an industry I did not understand that all of them have the
hospital as a whole how it works I understand piping but the people
working the different people the different jobs you understand you get the feel of the plant itself how it
works how its maintained and this like oh there’s the boiler okay fine let me take a test another
water sample see your log you’re done knowing the industry so when you walk
into a plant you kind of know like this is the most common problem they’ll have
or this is what they’re mostly concerned with because you walk into a plant they’re really concerned about whatever
light or piece of equipment whatever is unique in that particular industry but
if you don’t know that you could be losing out because now all of a sudden you become quote you know their industry
you really know all hospital works you know how the whole thing works together
it’s like in a bakery you know your bakery yeah you steam or with the gifted
crust or something like that on the bread of it or what I want and spend too long man so if you understand the
industry how it works I think it gives you a leg up because you can you can relate to
that’s the main thing you can relate is this all one would you do this and how’s this the how that’s working water
they really oh okay instead of saying we got a boy what size is it okay no you
can you can understand how is being utilized how integrates with the rest of
the system and find out if there are had then you even though if they’re not having a problem you can’t understand
how the flowchart how everything works when I first started I did not know that
I’ve learned I don’t now when somebody mixing about certain guys here oh yeah this is own house that heat exchanger
for having problems with that how’s that going although though no problem says you know we are having some problems
oh did you did you know you can check this and check that you try this you know that’s a good idea
I’m not I’m not giving away the game the ball game I’m all I’m doing there I said
earlier don’t give away the ball game the thing it is I’m letting them know boy God let them know that I know the
system I know how to take care of the system they have they can have confidence see they can have confidence
with me if I know their plan how it all worked instead of just one piece of
equipment house integrated puppy to me I did not have that I didn’t and it wasn’t
taught now what we just had our our training here here at water tech just
the other day and one thing that said when you go through a plant remember even though the plan is working
you still want to go through that whole entire plan like it all the piping look
out everything is lay down to get it understanding how it works because of some if something goes wrong whatever
then you know I own this even that could be the possible problem I can start there
knowing the plan though the plan agaln advisor Jack what are the last few books
that you’ve read okay far as reading books I have one by my bed right now and
sales management don’t ask me why anyway oh I know why anyway cuz Roy’s doing the
sale sure dealing with people mostly I’m getting most of my information for the
all this time now is reading technical magazines what’s new how things are done
you bite fine you have different metallurgy today never back wind you
ever have put your white rust then when it first came around and even what that stuff was it’s a what what is that
telling who bless white was okay now we we can recognize it we kind of like on knowing that I can look at the water
reports as it possibly is it has it been properly passivated as an example so anyway I’m
looking through these different articles and also the analyst has great articles
and the only didn’t because these articles there’s something that you and I power already know but it’s nice it is
it co like oh yeah that’s right you kind of read you know not rethinking and it
just kind of reminds you good refresher yeah it’s a good refresher so technical
magazines primarily ed books I have one by mine but other than that then
sometimes for traveling I’ll relax all of God fictional books so I’m getting to
that point yeah I’m gonna say I do everything I know all they ever no worry
but once you think you know something that’s what is over my dad used to say
the exact same thing oh really absolutely he said especially about water treatment the day you think you’ve
figured it all out you need to hang it up and get out of this industry it with it would you think you know that give me
a call call I ask you a question you don’t know well you know you’re I know
you’re a big golfer so where was the last course that you played Quicksilver
know silver creek there is a part that I get Silver Creek Country Club we had a blog to a senior group and so I get to
sneak off sometimes during the week don’t tell the kids anyway and I’ve been
very fortunate a blog to country club here locally and we have a senior group
and we pay other scene groups other country clubs so I get to play other country clubs
that I would first of all even though they existed and way up in the hills behind gated gates and whatever the case
may be but now I get to go into their club because they get to come to our clubs so they don’t answer your question
I was just yesterday yesterday and what was the score oh I’m losing connection
now I get a kid can’t quite hear that oh sorry can you hear me now oh I see I see what you did there
well act but it was it say oh I did well it’s a foursome I’m not to bore anybody with golf it’s a force in the best bowl
of two and three didn’t show up open with her dad golf clubs in their hands
but they didn’t do very well so as a foursome we didn’t do well but I did okay but it takes a team funnyman said
about golf I you asked my I will give you the name but part of my password is
is hacker yeah what guy took it you probably shouldn’t give your password information out on the podcast
just just a little bit of advice no I know I’m not I just say no I didn’t but
what I’m trying to say one guy was saying I used hacker and he says by the
way uh hanker mmm we have a computer hacker I got no no no no I’m a hacker Golf
hackers so there you go Oh Jack you
you’ve had an incredible life lots of lots of things you’ve done lots of things you’ve learned so eventually
they’re going to end up making a movie about your life when they do that who plays Jack Walker oh I know it’ll be I
just started that’s a good question take a guy who just a working guy has a
business is it’s gonna be a boring movie okay there’s no whatever the I was taken
be Caddyshack candy shack and what was the maintenance guy who was kind of blow
up the gopher that’s kind of think the same mine doesn’t work that quick Oh Bill Murray yet they are very deadly
Bill Murray and I’m the maintenance guy trying to blow up the get rid of that gopher that’s why that’s how I’d be sir
so everybody enjoy right everybody when joy a Shack what a brute so so so instead of
instead of Bill Murray playing the Jack Walker character you want to go and play the Bill Murray
Caddyshack character yes there you go I’m glad I see you near you so hey what
will say you see so Jack if you have the ability to talk to anybody throughout
history who would it be with and why others so all you’ve learned this
gracious sakes alive the inventors Leonardo there’s there’s one guy there’s
others you go back further course I could say Plato Yeah right I wouldn’t
understand one word he’s talking about he’s beat on my comprehension but how these Minds working but I guess they had
a lot of times they didn’t have a lot of side side attraction but Leonardo DaVinci meaning we are not from that
level but anyway there’s such great minds back there what would they do
it’s not royalty stuff like that but these guys through who created from this
concept we see you don’t stop the fame out with what Newton if we didn’t if you
didn’t that gravity where we would be today then then gravity just as an
example great lines well there you go well jack one thing is for sure and you are definitely a great
mind and I would love to have you back as I think we just scratched the surface on ideas and and topics that you can
give to our audience so if you don’t mind I’d like to have you back again well if you’ll have me back I mean it
seems like we can’t rattle on but it’s I understand the podcast to listen to
somebody drone on its the idea is that when you get into the industry pick an
investor you’re gonna be comfortable with don’t other words don’t call on the type of an investor either as the water
trader that you wouldn’t feel comfortable with because you don’t have the technology or you can be overwhelmed
go and do that get something that you feel comfortable and as you grow then
you get references then you start growing I I’m taking care of some data centers now there I won’t say where
they are but they’re well known that never my life I ever thought I didn’t
know how data worked the data centers so I can start talking different equipment how things are done and I can relate to
them so when I walk in there start funky so I’m trying to say understand that’s why I like a new investment but
understand what you feel comfortable with and there’s plenty of it Nitin : then you can expand from there so debts
being most of help and and to to listen to other people pardon find a mentor
fight it’s not going to be one individual find somebody that you can call on or talk to it like hey I have
this a particular deaerator uh what was common with this you know I have a different style boy I’ve never seen
before Oh what’s a quite buoyant little bees they don’t have those you know what’s
different about them or a mirror boy you can talk to different people that’s because you can’t you can’t know
everything don’t pretend I’ve I just you want to you want to know you’re in dusting be an
expert in here it does whatever they be an expert gawking their shoulders high head up and second I know this okay what
can I do to help you Jack I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing some of the ideas that you
had throughout the what is it fifty years in water treatment uh 72 to what
do the bath 72 to 2017 those what 45 well there you go so much there’s so
much of a wealth of knowledge and thanks so much for coming on and sharing it with our audience thanks again trace
good job keep it up well folks that right there is the reason that you need
to take time to volunteer with the association of Water Technologies I did
not know Jack at all before I volunteered and I would not have had the opportunity to meet such an incredible
person and have this conversation with Jack had I not gotten involved with AWT
so if you’re thinking about it go ahead and pull the trigger and get involved with AWT go on
a WT org and I’m sure you’ll find many many things that you could do again it
pays me back the fact that I volunteer on a daily basis so let’s get into pinks
and blues got a couple of questions trace when you calibrate conductivity
controllers do you calibrate the conductivity probe with standard are just simply using air and system water
well the I guess the answer is yes to both it depends on the situation so
normally what I will do is I always use a calibrated meter I never have any
question at all whether the controller is right or my meters right my meter is always clean it always has fresh
batteries the probes are always up-to-date and it’s always been calibrated before it went into service
that day so I never ever want to guess if my meter is telling me the right
thing and if I ever do question my meter I always have standards both pH and
conductivity with me so I can verify that it is doing that so all that aside
let’s say our meter is working and we have gotten some drift on the calibration of the conductivity
controller so the first thing that I would say before you go to calibrate it
is clean it and on our third episode I believe it was Tom tinny told us the
proper way to clean a probe making sure that we didn’t put any residuals on that
now Tom didn’t recommend this but what I’ve been doing for years is I have a scotch brite pad in my test kit that is
changed regularly and I used to clean the carbon tips on those probes
occasionally I’ll put a little bit of acid on that and that will soluble eyes
anything that has migrated on those tips and then I’ll clean those I’ll then
rinse them really well with the DI water that I in my test kit and then I will see what
they read by putting them normally if I’m doing all that I normally will put them into standard just so I know
exactly what’s going on there so the key to that is depending on how much standard you have in your test kit you
probably want to find some sort of vessel that will hold just enough
standard around that probe so you’re not having to put a hundred mils of standard
in just to calibrate that so that might take some doing but trying to think what we use actually I’m pretty sure I know
what they are they are the urine specimen cups you get at doctors offices and that is just enough for us to get a
good amount of standard in that cup and then have enough room for that probe to
sit in there if you can find something that was a little bit narrower that might even be a little bit better but
that’ll least get you started so hopefully now on the screen you are reading what the conductivity standard
actually says if you do not get that reading now you have to calibrate it and
typically they have a high and low calibration too low or sometimes they’re
even called air because that’s what you’re going to do you’re going to calibrate that in nothing so nothing is
across that probe and then you’re going to calibrate that to zero once that’s
done you can stick it in your standard and go ahead and calibrate it to high if you wanted to you could use your system
water if you did not have standard you knew exactly what that system water was
based on your meter you can calibrate it that way as well I have learned when we
have taken over accounts from other companies that cleaning the conductivity
probe doesn’t seem to be a regular maintenance items with every water
treater out there and folks you got to look at that controller on the wall is that’s you when you’re not there so
treat it with that kind of respect if it is not being calibrated properly and
treated properly it is not going to do the job that you would want to do if you were there so to
answer the question yes when I clean the probe I normally do use standard but you
could also get away with not using standard if you were very confident in your meter but the big takeaway about
this I think is to make sure that your probes are clean and you might even want
to document how often that controller is not holding conductivity because if
that’s a regular thing that you’re looking at every month there might be something else going on there and then
we get into some of the troubleshooting that we talked about on Episode three so
the second question that I’m going to answer today is around alkalinity and I’ve received a lot of questions about
alkalinity and honestly I think that I can do an entire show if not several
shows on the subject of alkalinity so I’m going to hit one of the lighter
questions and then depending on my response certain your response from my response you guys can let me know if I
need to go deeper into this so alkalinity and let’s talk about relationships first off we can only have
certain well let me tell you the question first again I get ahead of myself I get so excited to talk about alkalinity so this person wants to know
you know what alkalinity exists at different PHS so that leads us
to the actual alkalinity pH relationships so what I want you to do
is visualize the pH scale and the pH scale between 0 and 14 so what we’re
going to do is we’re going to talk about which alkalinity exists at what pH and
you’ve heard on other shows where we’re using pH sensitive dyes like phenolphthalein or bromo Kressel green
to indicate what pH azar and the reason that they work is because and the reason
we use those same things as alkalinity indicators is because those alkalinity only exist at certain PHS so there could
be some scrappin see on the numbers that i’m gonna give out i’m giving you some generalities and I’m giving you this way
because it’s easy to remember somebody might say it’s not exactly for three it’s for two points something it’s for
three points something but I’m gonna speak very generally so what the heck am
I talking about so again if you will recognize the pH scale put that in your mind for a second so as we’re moving
from low to high on the pH scale these are the alkalinity x’ and how they exist
so below 4.3 we do not have alkalinity
what we have is carbonic acid so above 4.3 we start to develop by carbonate
alkalinity and that’s our M alkalinity it’s called M alkalinity because we used
to use methyl orange to test for that a better indicator now is bromo Kressel
green but we never change that to be alkalinity but that’s why M alkalinity
is bicarbonate alkalinity all right so that’s from four three two eight three
now above eight three we start to produce carbonate alkalinity now that’s
our p alkalinity for phenol failing water treatments very simple we don’t
try to make it more difficult than it has to be so we named it after our reagents so from eight three to ten
three is our carbonate alkalinity and then above ten three we have our
hydroxyl alkalinity so if those relationships help you when you’re now
running your pH and then you go to run your alkalinity tests if you have a pH
of seven four there is absolutely no reason to put phenol failing in that
total alkalinity test because it doesn’t exist the only reason you would do that if you didn’t trust your meter and by
the way if your meter says seven something and your phenolphthalein turns pink and your sample your meter is
correct so you can use these alkalinity relationships to make your testing a
little bit easier a lot of us just simply run procedures and we don’t understand the tests as well as we
should but when we’re running alkalinity and we’re using a properly calibrated pH
meter we should be able to run only the tests we need saving us time so we can
do something else that’s more valuable at that account so that’s breaking the
tip of the iceberg with alkalinity I’m gonna go ahead and put a relationship chart up on my show notes page so if
you’re having difficulty visualizing that I’ll have a little graph up there for you I’m not going to get in too much
– I’m not gonna get it at all the 2p minus M and the different relationships on how you can figure out one alkalinity
from another but maybe I’ll do that on another show if the interest is high
enough we definitely do that at the AWT technical training so it’s amazing all
the stuff that is covered during those three days whether you’re in the
fundamentals and applications class or if you’re in the technical training class it is like drinking from a
firehose so even if you’ve been to one of those classes recently I go every
single year and I am always amazed I always learned something new even though
it’s the same presenters and it’s a similar presentation it’s like drinking
from a firehose like I said and you get a little bit more every time that you go so the last question is on passivation
and I received several questions what’s the proper way to passivate a cooling tower and rather than me answering that
question for those of you that were at the AWT convention two years ago Chris
Nagel of eval CO gave a great paper on the topic of passivation so rather than
me talk about what I learned from him we’re actually going to have a
conversation with Chris so that’s gonna be coming up in future episodes and the reason I knew to reach
out to Chris and ask if he would talk about passivation because you find folks let me know that that was something that
you were interested in so please continue to do that that’s how I know
what I’m going to talk about and that drives my anxiety level way down because
I don’t have to worry about coming up with topics to talk about because you guys are doing that for me so thank you
very much for that I hope that you’ve enjoyed this episode I hope you tell a
friend about this podcast and I hope you treat tomorrow as an opportunity a
better water trader tomorrow than you were today have a great [Music]
you [Music]