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today’s episode is proudly sponsored by
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welcome to scaling up h2o the podcast
where we’re scaling up on knowledge so
we don’t scale up our systems
i’m trace blackmore the host of scaling
up
h2o and folks it’s almost that time
again i’m talking about the hang that we
are doing in conjunction with all the
water treaters out there
and that is going to be on april 8th
at 6 00 p.m eastern standard
time folks this is one of my favorite
things
that we do the awt the association of
water technologies is helping us
out with this so you might have seen
something come across your email
if you are a member of the awt but this
is something we do
fairly frequently i would say about
every two months
at minimum and this is how we
get to reach out and meet other
water treatment professionals so i know
it’s hard to do that
with covet going on with all the things
that we’re not
able to do that we used to be able to do
that
allowed us to network well folks that
is not an excuse anymore and if you’ve
been
on a previous hang you know exactly
what i’m talking about so if you are
wanting to sign up for the april 8th
hang at
6 p.m eastern time and of course why
wouldn’t you
you can do that by going to scaling up
h2o.com
forward slash hang and all that
information that you need will be
right at your fingertips i can’t wait
to see you there one nation a new
segment that we started this year that’s
become
wildly popular within the scaling up
nation
is james’s challenge we’ve learned so
much from james’s challenge now the goal
with this
is james each and every week he
gives us a challenge and some of them
are easy
some of them don’t take very long some
of them take a little bit of research
and take longer to do but if we do all
these this is
52 things that is going to make you
a better industrial water treater
now we’ve done things like an illusion
study on a
water softener we’ve checked for
phosphate in the makeup
water we’ve made sure that our
test kit is in the best condition
possible and i think one of my favorite
ones
is something that i try to practice
myself i
love receiving handwritten notes
in fact i’ve got a few that i’ve
received from people that i still have
i’ve actually framed one that my wife
gave me
years ago folks when you take the time
to put
pen to paper it is amazing
what that conveys to the person that
receives
that note and that was one of james’s
challenges
he asked us all to write handwritten
notes to some people that have helped us
in the industry and nation i was
honored to be the recipient of several
of those handwritten notes i’ve also
sent several of those handwritten notes
well this week is no different we have
another installment
of james’s challenge
hello scaling up nation the next james’s
challenge
as we grow as an industrial water
treatment professional drop by drop
is
research the langelier saturation index
or lsi
many of you use the saturation index to
predict calcium carbonate scale
formation
but there are strengths and weaknesses
to it do you know what they are
do you know the underlying assumptions
do you know who created it
how does it compare to other predictive
scaling indices
and why is it so popular a little bit of
googling as you wait for your test to
develop or between meetings
or at home on your couch at night will
help you better understand the langelier
saturation index
be sure to share your experience on
linkedin by tagging it with hashtag jc21
and hashtag scalinguph2o this is james
mcdonald and i look forward to seeing
what you share
well folks remember to hashtag what you
are doing
and post on social media
jc21 and scaling up
h2o and of course next week we’ll have a
brand
new challenge for you folks there’s
no doubt about it one of my favorite
things in this industry
is meeting other people that are in
this industry so my next guest is
somebody that has been
in this industry for a few years but
before he was an industrial water
treater
he was one of our customers
folks i know you’re going to enjoy this
interview
here is sean mcgrade
[Music]
my lab partner today is sean mcgrade
sean i’m so excited
to have you on the scaling up h2o
podcast today you and i have gotten to
know each other
through this past year and i can’t wait
to
introduce you to the scaling up nation
but before we do
how are you doing good good trace it’s
an honor and a privilege to be here i’m
looking forward to our conversation
uh thanks again for extending the
invitation to be a part of the podcast
i think it’s cool how you’ve really
helped embrace improvement throughout
the industry
and you know the saying a rising tide
raises all both
is something that you really encourage
and embrace and for that i’m
truly grateful well i appreciate you
saying that and
for somebody that has listened to the
podcast as long as you
i want to thank you for getting past
episode number one
oh no it’s it’s been awesome to see how
the podcast has really developed over
the years and
you know some of those early episodes
were the ones that got me truly
passionate and and really excited about
what i do on the day-to-day
well i know we’re going to talk about
that but before we do do you mind
telling the scaling up nation a little
bit
about sean mcgrade sure yeah
i’m 34 i live in the twin cities
metro area of minnesota i’ve been in
water treatment now for roughly six
years a little bit more about me i’m a
avid muskie angler and for those of you
who don’t know in the scaling up nation
that’s a toothy you know apex predator
fish we have up here
in in the northern area fish at 10 000
cash they call it
and sometimes i kick myself for
you know putting myself through the
grind of trying to
catch one of these elusive apex predator
fish because
it really can take a toll on you
chucking those big baits
all day long i’m also a firefighter emt
it’s kind of one of my hobbies or it’s a
part-time job
most of my shifts are on the weekends
because depending on the night
it can really impact the next day if i’m
up all night running calls
basically we work 12 or 24-hour shifts
it’s a 36-hour commitment per month
and you know 90 of the calls are medical
related calls so but yeah that’s just a
quick synopsis of me
sean i have to ask about these monster
fish so you’re you’re out on the lake
what are you doing so we’re basically
there’s a
ton of different ways to go after them
whether it’s trolling
or chucking these big lures my
preference
is casting you know most exciting part
of it is
these fish will actually chase your bait
into the boat
and then that’s the time where you have
to play that little cut and mouth game
with them take it away
uh in something called the figure eight
and try to entice them
to bite the bait now are these good
eating fish
no these are these are a sport fish you
don’t harvest them it’s just
for the sport aspect of trying to
catch one of these elusive fish because
you go out there and you don’t get one
every time
sometimes you’re lucky just to see some
follow into the boat and
just because they’re gonna follow into
the boat doesn’t mean they’re
necessarily gonna
you know eat per se well and that’s why
they call it
fishing and not catching yes you’re
exactly right
well let’s shift gears over into water
treatment because you weren’t always
a water treater tell us about what you
did six years prior
and how you got into the water treatment
industry
yeah so this is a good story and this is
something i really want to kind of
encourage the rest of the nation
to promote the fact that you don’t have
to
you know have some real technical
background to be successful and to get
into this industry
so basically i was a building engineer
for a school district
had been there for you know roughly 10
years
i had been struggling i had been
thinking that this wasn’t going to
suffice
what i wanted to do with the rest of my
life
so it just so happened that the school
district i was working for was going out
for bed
and due to this there was a couple water
treaters
who came in to do surveys while they’re
doing their surveys i’m kind of picking
their brain
um you know how did you get in the
industry you know i had
talked to many water treaters throughout
my travels at the school district and
i’d always kind of been
curious you know what did these guys do
to land this job you know
walking around with their test kit in
their you know
magical power cape i was like how do i
become this person
so long story short during those surveys
i picked their brains and just said hey
i’m curious i’m interested what did you
guys have to do to get into this
and they basically let me know you know
we all have a different story
some of us are pipe fitters some of us
are you know got into sales or
accounting
or real estate or whatever and
oftentimes as you know
people kind of fall into water treatment
unless you have
you know family or a history that’s
something that is often passed down
but a vast majority of people kind of
fall into the role and
once they’re in it’s they typically
never leave
so by the end of these conversations
they both offered me a job
which i was kind of dumbfounded i i
didn’t expect that result
and i talked to a gentleman jay first so
i wanted to honor my commitment to him
because i kind of gave him a verbal
commitment hey you know i’m really
excited thank you for the opportunity
did not you know in my wildest dreams
think the next person i talked to would
offer me a job as well
so i started working with jay over at
you know a mid
market company and my role was a service
technician
and basically what that involved was
helping alleviate you know the load for
him whether it was
uh running pinks and blues helping him
you know without hit
throughout his territory and then
they’re also creating
a service division to do some of these
tasks
oftentimes water treatment companies
don’t necessarily help out with whether
it’s
you know cooling tower cleaning spoiler
cleanings
new control installs and piping and
i mean you basically name it so i did
that
and worked under jay for about a year
and a half
throughout that time i really looked at
this role
as an opportunity to really make
something of myself
i wanted to take it to the next level so
i’d spend many nights
many weekends face planted in a book
trying to soak up as much knowledge as i
could because i
i looked at it as my ticket to really
make something in a lifeline
if i could prove to you know my
supervisors that
i had the technical knowledge i knew how
to
you know interact with customers solve
their problems
if i could gain a commitment from them
to become a rep
that this would really take it to the
next level so yeah
after about a year and a half working
under jay kind of really cutting my
teeth
in the water treatment industry i kind
of
let the upper echelons of the company
know hey
i really appreciate the offer or the
opportunity
to be a service technician i’m really
interested in taking it to that next
level
and being a full-blown rep this involved
you know some tests and quizzes and
stuff just to kind of see
where i was sitting and if i could if i
had the knowledge
to kind of you know have them feel
comfortable about me being a rep
so i did very good on all those tests
and quizzes
and i think it kind of took them by
surprise
they didn’t know behind the scenes this
whole time that i had been diligently
trying to develop my technical knowledge
and long story short they gave me the
you know thumbs up and i was a rep i was
a wreck for about
another i would say two-ish years
and then they came back to me again and
said sean you’re killing it you’re doing
really good
we want to bump you up to be an account
manager
and so when i was an account manager
things were a little bit different
the opportunities to get you know be in
bigger accounts
presented themselves and yeah the next
step of this
is i had to make a really tough decision
i’m a very loyal person and had a lot of
respect for this company really kind of
taking a chance on me
there was news that a company by the
name kurita
which is a global company was coming
into the u.s
market they had already acquired a
company called
fremont very innovative company have a
lot of
you know interesting patented
technologies
so that fall of
i would say what is it 2019
i understood that they were going to
acquire
a company called u.s water as well and
those
two companies aligned very closely
because
they both share the same value of the
integrated approach
meaning holistically we’re not just
selling chemicals we’re really focused
on water management as a whole you know
water in
to water out how can we maximize and
help our customers
in all aspects of water management a lot
of that
um involves some pre-treatment you know
whether it’s
ros or softeners the alkalizers
there’s all kinds of processes within a
plant oftentimes
people will focus on just the cooling or
just the boiler but
there’s a multitude of ways of avenues
of how you can really truly help a plant
with their bottom line so long story
short
that fall i accepted a job with u.s
water
knowing that by the spring of next year
they were all going to come together
under the korita america
name and so here i am now i work for
korea america
uh six years later and i’m
super excited and thrilled to be a part
of this company um because there’s a lot
of
innovative technologies it’s gotten me
a whole lot more exposure to different
applications and different
plants and processes and it’s just
continuing to develop
my technical knowledge something that
i’m very passionate
and you know hungry for that’s kind of
what keeps me going
is this thought of continuous education
or continual
development and i’m able to do that
with korea america so that’s pretty
long-winded but
i i just i also want to encourage the
nation listening
that i was a guy who didn’t have any you
know college degree or any technical
background i mean the only college i
really had was
firefighter emt related and you know
fast forward six years
me being very dedicated to my craft
i’ve been able to be successful in this
industry and if there’s any point i want
to get across to the nation
is that you can do the same well there
you go a whole bunch of stuff that i
want to unpack
with you first i want to start out
with you were a building engineer do you
feel
that being in that industry
knowing the equipment having to service
the equipment every day having to work
on the equipment
every day that that help prepare you for
a career
in water treatment i would definitely
say so on
you know a few different levels just you
know sympathizing
with the day-to-day of these operators
you know
the only water treatment isn’t the only
thing
that they’re monitoring or taking care
of on the on the day-to-day so
i can truly sympathize and understand
some of the other things that are
responsible
to fulfill their their job duties i also
think that it gives me a different
angle as far as relaying information
so i feel like the communication the
back and forth to kind of whether it’s
relay my findings
talk about improvements or just as
simple as not
overwhelm somebody give them little bits
of information
every time i’m i’m performing a service
visit
it really helps to empower them you know
i look at it as their
an extension of me and the more
information
and the more i can develop their
knowledge the better off we’ll be as a
whole
so i i think being an engineer
for a you know a good part of my life i
think
that connection and to be able to relay
things or
or really put myself in their shoes
has definitely made me successful with
what i’m doing
in the day-to-day so being a former
building engineer
you have a vantage point that most of us
don’t have
you have seen water treatment from both
sides so i want to ask you
what are some things you think water
treaters get right when they’re
communicating
what they need to communicate to an
engineer and what are some of the things
that they don’t quite get right
that’s a good question trace i guess
i’ll start with
the wrongs you know some of the things i
didn’t really
like a whole lot was just that poor
communication or
i don’t know acting like you’re smarter
than them when you’re
when you’re trying to have a
conversation about something
or just as simple as when somebody has a
question
not explaining it properly or just kind
of
shoving it off like you don’t need to
know all the facts
harboring information the wrong approach
of just not empowering that
that individual that really kind of
rubbed me the wrong way
and then just you know having that
standpoint of
hey i’m just here to sell you chemistry
and not really taking that step back
approach of
how can we improve things as a whole
it’s not just chemical
you know there’s there’s a multitude of
ways we can really help to reduce
you know whether it’s water use fuel
costs
i just really didn’t like having a water
trader that didn’t take it to that next
level
and always want to continue to improve
the program
per se and some of the rights were
you know being patient with with your
customers
or me at that time being
cordial explaining things and layman
terms so
i could grasp what they were trying to
you know the information they were
trying to relay yeah i can’t agree
more with terms there is
this allure in our industry to use
multi-syllable words in our
common language when we’re talking to a
customer and i think people think it
makes us sound smart but if the person
doesn’t understand
what we’re trying to convey there’s
nothing smart about that conversation
exactly you’re not able to get your
point across
and ultimately you’re not really
speaking to that customer in a way that
they’re going to be receptive
so you’ve been in the industry about six
years
what’s your day-to-day life well my
my day-to-day definitely varies from day
to day every day is not the same and
there’s
many hacks i need to be able to wear
throughout the day to be successful
whether it’s you know sitting down with
decision makers
doing you know proposals or
business reviews or having those high
level talks of how can we make
improvements
are there some capital budgets or plans
that that we need to talk about on a
project list
to continue to make things better for
the plant
and then there’s you know the other hats
where i need to be an electrician i need
to know how to
wire up a probe or a controller or
troubleshoot something
look at something from a mechanical
point of view and
diagnose hey do we have a flow issue or
is there a mechanical reason why
something isn’t performing how we want
so
i’d say the day to day is never the same
and there’s you know
a ton of hats we need to be able to wear
to be successful
and that’s part of the fun you know not
a whole lot of
jobs out there do you need to possess so
many different
traits or skills in order to bring that
value to your customer
i totally agree with that i was at a
meeting once
with the association of water
technologies and the young man came up
to me and said
that he just thought his job was boring
and i said well you’re not doing it
right and
it sounds like you need to find
something else because doing this job
for
more years than i care to announce on
the show
i will say i have never been bored in
this career
yeah a day doesn’t go by where you don’t
see something different or exciting or
or have to put your thinking cap on you
know we we see so many different things
and that’s also part of the fun is we we
get that front row seat to
you know the show how it’s made and you
know you could be going into a dairy
or a semiconductor plant or a plastics
you know you name it
well we get that behind the scenes look
to see how that all comes together
yeah and it’s even better than the how
it’s made tv show because the people
that are working there they’re so
proud to show off what it is that they
make
and to get those private tours they’re
not that many jobs that allow you to get
paid
while you do that definitely and and one
thing i’ve learned throughout that
is if you just sit back and let them
show you and let them walk you around
the plant
that’s a huge way to build trust build
that relationship you’re exactly right
people are very proud and take pride in
what they do and if you kind of just
sit back let them kind of lead the
conversation
it’s amazing you know some of the
conversations you can have and that
really
helps to develop those bonds and and
relationships you know
absolutely agree sean what would you say
your biggest success as a water treater
has been so far
you know not thinking about some of the
ways i’ve helped my customers
you know kind of taking that off the
table the biggest success
i can think of is in 2018
i got rep of the year at the prior
company i was with
and i think a big part of that was
my ability to sell a new account one
each month or at least one each month
for a whole calendar year
so if we just if we’re thinking
accolades or
that kind of deal i’d say that was my
biggest success to date
what would you consider a bad day in
water treatment
oh that’s funny that’s a that’s also a
good question
some of the bad days uh maybe getting an
emergency call
from a customer that’s you know on the
other side of your territory and
it’s pressing or it’s pertinent for you
to get over there which will kind of
you know screw your original plans up
for the the day or whatnot
some of the other bad days maybe maybe
lose an account
maybe there’s you know a corporate
agreement or an rfp
came out where you know they had a
vested interest
with doing business with a particular
water treatment company so you’re kind
of
showing out the door and by no control
of your own
and then you know oftentimes too some of
these rfps they’re just looking for the
lowest bidder
they’re not thinking about the overall
value you’re bringing
so they’re just looking for the you know
cheapest cost and that’s that’s also a
tough
tough pill to swallow sometimes when you
know the value
value you could bring to a plant or the
improvements you could
help out with to ultimately help their
bottom line and make them more
successful
you know oftentimes what’s the saying
you get what you pay for and i think
that that holds true to what we do as
well
i always take it as a personal defeat
when a customer says we’re going to go
with another vendor because
they are a cheaper price i always feel
that i didn’t do enough to show what our
value is
to help them document it so they could
see that it’s
more than just the invoice they’re
paying it is all the value
of all the technicians that are coming
into that company
you feel the same way when you lose an
account yeah yeah that’s one thing
that i i still struggle with is not
taking those losses personally
i look at it as a learning opportunity
of how i could have
done something differently sometimes you
know no matter what i
i do it’s out of my control it’s it
isn’t something personal
but i always strive to learn from those
events
you know and look back on it of did i
present them with all the facts
were were my service reports documenting
or detailing
some of the ways that i was really
helping
promote savings you know because
oftentimes
that water treatment cost is a drop in
the bucket
compared to some of the bigger costs
whether it’s fuel
water man hours i mean you name it
that’s a
that’s a sliver in the overall pie so
could i have done a better job
showing them the value that that i bring
or what savings
i’ve brought that’s kind of what i look
back and think about
yeah i definitely agree and i love how
you stated
that it’s a learning experience and if
we can
learn something from the experience then
that means
we are going to get better the next time
that opportunity comes around
and i’m just thinking this week i
got a customer back that we lost six
years ago so right when you were getting
into water treatment we were getting
fired from this location
and something that a gentleman told me a
long long time ago
was you’re going to lose business but
make sure you’re always
graceful in that process and i let the
people know that
anything that we could do to let us know
we were always
down the road and we could come and help
them out quickly
well it took six years but now we are
back
in that facility and i have dozens of
stories like that
so if you use it as a learning
experience
if you you accept it gracefully you
never know
most likely they’re going to ask you to
come back couldn’t agree more
you always you always want to leave on
good terms
you always never want to bash your
competition as well
and i’ve had the same thing happen to me
as well chase you know
a year two years later they’re calling
back up
saying hey we didn’t realize what we
were getting when we were with you
oh those are great calls aren’t they yep
yeah okay we’re talking about losing an
account let’s let’s change the script a
little bit
so you’ve received an award for selling
new accounts so what can you tell us
what are some techniques what should we
be doing
in selling new accounts well there’s
there’s definitely multiple ways or
angles to sell
new accounts one of my favorite ways
is referrals through mechanical
contractors i mean they’re they’re
trusted in plants
they live and die these guys are heroes
because
you know if they fix a piece of
equipment and
the downtime of that piece of equipment
time is money
so i’ve i’ve really utilized some of
my mechanical contractor contacts that’s
definitely helped me succeed or be
brought into
new places it’s getting tougher and
tougher especially
with colvin you don’t necessarily get to
go knock on a door
or make you know introduce yourself or
you know oftentimes there’s nobody even
manning
the front desk or you know there’s a
phone with
numbers to call but there’s not a sheet
letting you know
you know who you should be getting a
hold of so
kovit has definitely changed things as
far as
prospects go and and new business
i’d like to hear some of the strategies
that you and your team
have been using to kind of combat that
during these
trying times well there’s no doubt about
it it’s definitely
a different arena that we have to sell
in
and if we keep doing the same thing the
same ways that we
did them before the pandemic i don’t
think anybody’s going to be successful
and i think
pretty much everybody has realized that
so
cold calling is just very different
these days i remember
where i couldn’t get into a plant
and i noticed that every day around the
same time
a bunch of workers would come out and
they would smoke and take their
their breaks and one day i decided to to
bring some pizzas
and i gave pizzas to everybody and i
asked them
who do you think i need to talk to and
they said oh well that’s barry and they
took me right in to meet barry
and we have that account to that day i
don’t think you’re doing a lot of
that during the pandemic so we have to
think differently
and and i bring that story up because
that was how we were thinking
differently during that time
so many people today they’re maybe
nervous to meet in person
so there’s a lot of zoom calls that are
going
on but i could not agree more it is so
much more powerful
when you can get a warm referral and if
somebody refers you
over to somebody else have that person
call
the person they’re referring while
you’re there maybe even on speaker phone
tell them a little bit about your
accolades not you tell them but have the
the referring person tell them and then
i used to always do that and invite them
both to lunch together
so we could talk about the experience
that we started the original account up
with and then
bring into how we’re going to start this
new business up
but again during the pandemic probably
the best we can do
is a zoom call which honestly
is a little bit less expensive because
you’re not buying lunch and it’s a lot
more efficient because there’s no
drive time so if you think about how do
you do the same things that you’ve done
but you changed them so now you’re safe
during these times and
you’re keeping other people safe i think
you can be successful
in sales during these weird times i
definitely agree trace i think that’s a
great perspective
to give the nation well i appreciate you
asking me that i want to shift gears
just a little bit now you are
a member of the rising tide mastermind
you were
one of my first members we started last
january
and i’m on this show talking about the
rising tide mastermind
to the scaling up nation and i think the
nation expects me
to hold the rising tide mastermind in a
high regard because i started it
you provide a perspective where you can
tell the nation
your first hand experiences
with the mastermind group so i’m hoping
we can have a little dialogue about that
and i want to start out by asking
what were you looking for and why did
you join the rising tide mastermind
well a big part of why i joined is like
i mentioned earlier
i’m almost addicted to self-development
and improvement
and continuing to make myself better and
better and better
as time goes on and i thought it would
be a great opportunity
to kind of further develop myself and my
career
and then you know knowing that we would
all come together as a group
i i long for that sense of community
and you know the rising tide mastermind
has definitely
given me a whole lot of people to talk
to
people to bounce ideas off so yeah the
the big reason
was to kind of employ myself with the
tools to be successful
and have a you know common group that we
all share the vision
of helping each other out through self
improvement and development
so you’ve been involved for a year would
you say that you have
received what you were looking for yeah
trace i’ve definitely found what i was
looking for
and it’s been really exciting to be a
part of a group
that we all share this common interest
to making
each other better and holding each other
accountable for
for things that we want to
succeed with it’s been a game changer
for me and
i’d i’d encourage more people you know
whether it’s the rising tide mastermind
group or a different mastermind group
it’s a way to really continue to develop
and find
that sense of community where everyone’s
got your back and
we’re all in the same boat trying to
help each other out
when i talk to people for the first time
that are considering
joining the rising tide mastermind they
normally ask me two questions and i’m
going to ask you
these same two questions one they don’t
know what a mastermind
is so i’m hoping that you can explain to
the group you know
why we call it a mastermind what exactly
that is
and then secondly people think that
since we’re all
in the same type of business that we’re
just getting together answering each
other’s
technical problems so how would you
address the nation on those two issues
so a mastermind group is basically
a group of members where we’re all you
know
helping and striving to be a resource
you know almost almost like a team or a
community
um sometimes we get into technical stuff
but oftentimes
it’s just you know anything and
everything you can think of
you know bring a bring a problem to the
group
and instead of one person thinking about
strategies or tactics to
to be successful or to kind of
achieve what you want to achieve you
have many different minds
collaborating and working together and
i’ve just
it’s crazy what that can actually do
when you have
a group of people rallying to solve an
issue or to give perspective rather than
doing it on your own
sean what do you think about the books
that we’ve read this past year
the books have been great trace and it’s
it’s really helped
you know kind of keep us accountable as
far as we’re reading this all together
we’re showing up for these mastermind
calls and
and we want to all you know be able to
discuss these books
and really dissect them so we can have
handles for the applications and
use the information we’re gathering or
gaining from the books in our day-to-day
life
and when you have a vast variety of
individuals
reading a book together you really get
some interesting or different
perspectives
because all of our minds don’t work the
same
you know i could be reading something
and picking up information in this way
and somebody else could be picking it up
and reading it in a different way so
that collaboration of really being able
to discuss the books
as a group gives you a totally different
perspective than if you’re doing it
alone
couldn’t agree more and just recently
we’ve had
members sort of take the front seat
and teach certain chapters of the book
and it’s been
really interesting everybody has a
different style and how they do that
because everybody gets something
different out of what we read the things
i think they might talk about
they might pick or they might pick
something else and
i have to say the role play that your
group did
for habit six for the seven habits of
highly effective people
where there was an issue and then one
one team was
the the building engineer and the the
other team was the water treatment
professional
i just think that was outstanding and
that was a hundred percent
from how somebody wanted to share what
they learned in that book
yeah that was that was great and uh
there were some chuckles too with that
role playing and whatnot i thought that
was
it was interesting having mark and
connor and
eric kind of role play that scenario it
was pretty
interesting and comical at the same time
for people in the scale up nation that
are listening to this and it is
intriguing to them
what would you say makes a good
candidate versus a bad candidate
trace i’d say a good candidate is
somebody who’s willing or dedicated to
spend the time required of
really being a part of the mastermind
group i mean that could be reading books
or doing some of the tools and you know
assignments
check-ins some of the things we’re doing
to collaborate as a group and really
make
each other better if you come unprepared
you’re really you’re not just letting
yourself down you’re letting the group
down
as a whole so you got to be dedicated
to it you got to you know be committed
in order to be successful so
the time commitment is is one thing and
and the dedication
you know and follow-through is another
sean you touched on something that’s
probably the biggest objection that i
come across when i’m talking
to people that are thinking about
joining the rising tide mastermind and
it’s about time
and people say i’m already too busy i
don’t have time
to join the mastermind and i normally
tell them
that this is the one hour a week that
changes
all the other hours of the week again i
think people
expect me to say something like that
what’s your point of view
after living this for an entire year
i think actually being a part of the
mastermind group has
helped immensely with my time management
skills as a whole
so one of the books we read you know
12-week year
there’s a part in there that’s you know
educates you on how to
assign different time blocks or how to
schedule your time
and i’d say the mastermind group has
actually made me more successful with my
my time management because i’m able to
kind of
put things in places and that helps me
be successful because
i’m not chasing my tail all the time
trying to keep you know my head afloat
uh i’m organized and the time commitment
so far for the mastermind group has only
helped me
you know with my time management skills
so i think
you know you got to kind of think about
that perspective as well hey
you’re dedicating some time to this but
ultimately it’s making you better as a
whole
and are you worth investing in yourself
to make yourself more productive
i’d say that’s a that’s a pretty simple
question to answer there
i always tell people in addition to this
conversation
that normally we’re busy working
in the business and this allows us to
work
on the business and on ourselves
what would you say how that is true
being in the mastermind over the past
year well once again
uh it’s a matter of a collaboration or a
bunch of different perspectives
coming together it truly all boils down
to
you you’re going to get out of it what
you put in and
i can’t praise the mastermind group i’ve
been in enough
just with the tools and resources it’s
given me
and also you know the the network you
know i have a group of people
that i can call on you know either for
advice
or you know a variety of different
reasons
i think you know the saying works
smarter not harder
you know it’s a direct correlation with
the mastermind group it’s
it’s giving you those tools to be more
efficient
well thank you for letting the scaling
up nation know the first hand experience
that
you’ve had i’m really proud we’re up to
40 members we’ve got
four rising tide mastermind groups
and it seems like the water treatment
industry is really embracing this idea
and i have to tell you selfishly on my
own getting to
to meet you sean getting to know you at
a higher level
and being able to see where you’ve
come from just a year’s time and all the
things that you’ve been able to achieve
i have really enjoyed that so thank you
for inviting me on that journey
well thanks for allowing me to be part
of it trace it’s been great
well let’s get back to water treatment
so a lot of
new water treaters listen to this
podcast and they hear somebody like
yourself that’s been in the industry for
six years that has seen
some great water treatment success and
they want to know
how do i get there what advice do you
have for them
uh i would say utilize your resources
you know
this this industry it’s it’s like an
onion is the best way i can describe it
there’s
many many many layers and try not to
overwhelm yourself
because you don’t know it all i mean
quite honestly
nobody knows it all and people
specialize in
in certain things so if there is any
piece of advice
i could give to the scaling up nation
it’s number one
you know be patient try not to feel
overwhelmed
utilize your resources and uh
invest in yourself you know if there’s a
particular topic that you want to learn
more
well there’s resources you know there’s
tons of information
that you can gather to to educate
yourself and
and to feel confident about you know
whatever the technical
topic is sean one of the issues
that many water treatment company owners
are facing right now
is that people are either aging out of
the industry
and they’re looking for people to
replace or their businesses are growing
and they’re trying to find
new faces for their companies
what advice do you have for somebody
who’s looking to find somebody else or
somebody who’s maybe
thinking about making a career change
into water treatment like you did
uh i would say be up front and kind of
you know lay out the expectations or
kind of
you know explain what a day would look
like
some of the things that you
what you do in the field you know be
transparent early on
and let people know hey you know this
these are some of the things you’re
going to be doing
i think that saves a lot of time and
quite honestly
investment in somebody it you know
we’ve had people who will get six months
a year into it
and they’ll hit that that wall where
they’re like okay
i’ve been overwhelmed this long maybe
this isn’t for me
i think a lot of time could have been
saved
if you have that conversation early on
of
you know these are the expectations
these are the
the tactics and ways we’re going to help
you know
invest in you but yes finding a
candidate
these days is tough and we have we have
a lot of people who are getting to that
retirement age
the other thing i want to touch on is
this is a very male
dominated industry and quite honestly it
doesn’t have to be i’ve i’ve worked with
some
fabulous women over the years who have
who
really you know surprised me as far as
how successful and and the value they
bring to customers so
i would encourage more women to get into
the industry i know that
there’s some resources women of water
and some others but
i just i wanted to you know make it a
point to touch on that
that topic if we’re talking about new
um candidates that let’s start embracing
or encouraging women
more women to get into the industry that
might be a good
tactic sure and the women that i can
think of just like yourself
highly successful and uh very good at
what
they do so i think the only prerequisite
is
not what you look like it’s that you
want to make this industry better
because you’re in it and if you can do
that
all people need to apply that that think
that way don’t you agree
i couldn’t agree more yes trace sean you
mentioned
that a lot of people will leave after
about a year
because let’s face it especially if
you’re coming from a
non-related industry into the water
treatment industry
you’re feeling overwhelmed for that
entire year and people
think oh i don’t want to feel this way
throughout my entire career so i’m just
going to end it at a year
so sean you’ve been in this industry for
six
years so what was your experience with
that
uh well you know one thing that really
helped kind of
make me feel more confident was
having mentors having people that were
in my corner so if i did come up you
know and
experience something i wasn’t familiar
with i had
resources and people to kind of help me
or coach me you know
both on a professional and personal
level
and and that’s when i really started to
you know
those bonds connected with some of those
people i’ve had and been fortunate to
have in my life as mentors
i think that’s when the gears really
switched and i i started feeling more
confident
i still don’t know it all to this day
but one thing
i will say is i know how to tap into the
resources to find the answers and
that brings me to another topic is when
you’re with a customer if you don’t know
the answer
don’t lie you know let them know hey
i’m not sure i will do some digging and
follow up with you but
integrity is everything in this business
and and if
you don’t have that it’s not going to be
long
before you realize you’re not going to
be successful
sean do you think the people that left
the industry because they felt
overwhelmed could have done something
differently
to still be in the industry
yeah maybe you know be patient
take the time maybe dedicate the time
outside of the normal work week to
kind of invest in your technical um
skills or knowledge and then you know
also time and territory management
it takes time to really you know build
momentum
and i don’t think in one year anyone’s
going to turn into somebody who’s super
super successful or knows at all
you got to be patient you got to put
your time in and you got to be dedicated
to continue to develop and you got to be
hungry for the knowledge you got to
go out and seek it because nobody’s
going to do it for you
you got to take the initiative sean i
really agree with you
i think and this is what we try to do in
the rising tide mastermind is to
elevate everybody up out of the
day-to-day so we can work on ourselves
and a lot of people they just stay
in the day-to-day and if all they’re
doing
is going from account to account and
running pinks and blues
and doing the tasks that they’ve learned
to do
and not trying to figure out the the why
behind them
and all the things that will help them
get less
overwhelmed then of course they’re going
to feel that way
and i know there are people out there
listening today that are thinking well
i’m
so busy with doing all these day-to-day
tasks how am i possibly going to do
these
extra things and the point is you have
to
if if you keep living your day-to-day
life by default
it’s never going to get better so i love
the way that you answered
that question what is some advice
to elevate yourself when you’re in that
overwhelmed feeling
you’re just doing the day-to-day stuff
how do you get out of that so you can
start working on the day
i would go back to the conversation
about tapping into your mentors
so i guess for me that really
sparked you know a level of excitement
being able to have that conversation or
build rapport
with you know some of these mentors i’ve
been fortunate
enough along the way to uh have in my
corner
that really kind of you know sparked a
fire
fed the fuel whatever you want to say to
really
make me want to take it to the next
level shawna sounds like
one of the ways that you’ve been able to
come out of the day-to-day
to start working on the day-to-day is
utilizing other people
and and you call them mentors i call
them mentors too
so i’m curious one what advice do you
have for somebody
finding a mentor and who have been some
of your water treatment mentors
so as far as advice for finding a mentor
i think you got to put yourself
in a vulnerable place where you’re
willing to kind of drop your guard
and get to a point where you feel like
you can ask
you know quote-unquote dumb questions or
questions that might make you
feel like you’re dumb um if you can
break that and just know that
you’re seeking you’re seeking knowledge
it’s not a matter of
you know if you’re dumb or not it’s that
hunger
passion to actually want to learn you
know
obviously you’ve been a huge mentor to
me you know through the mastermind group
we’ve really
you know been able to connect and and
build a close relationship and i’m very
very grateful for that trace
having you in my corner well thank you
for that yeah having you in my corner
has helped immensely
you know another person that comes to
mind early in my career
um steph who was the technical director
at the first company i worked with she
really helped you know
fuel the fire if i had questions she was
always
there um she provided me with
information
you know study materials things that i
could do on my own time
because quite honestly you know she
could tell that i was
hungry and passionate about learning and
she
kind of really helped to put the
resources
and tools in front of me you know some
other people
along the way i would say you know bill
bill hook he was always in my corner and
really helped me in a both professional
and personal
way you know it gets it gets lonely when
you’re on the road
every day all day and sometimes you can
feel like you’re on a island
and uh bill bill was always there to
to lend a ear or if i’d experienced
something i hadn’t seen before
he’d give me encouragement or advice i
think the common theme here
is a lot of my mentors i’ve been blessed
and fortunate
to have in my life they’ve all been
people that have helped
uh feed my passion for knowledge you
know mike mowbray
my my new technical director steve
blumke
over at fremont him and i have really
you know had some
really interesting discussions about
chemistries and different things and
and i’m a dork i like having those
conversations for whatever reason
it excites me they’re not for everyone
but yeah
having people in my corner and dropping
your guard being able to put yourself in
a vulnerable place
has truly ensured my success and
development throughout the
throughout this journey i’ve had so sean
you brought something up i want to touch
on
you talked about you know some of the
mentors in your life
and how we need to find a mentor but
a lot of us don’t because we’re worried
we’re going to
ask a stupid question so we never ask
the question
my question to you is have any of your
mentors
ever said that’s a dumb question
never never and that’s part of the
reason why
you know those relationships were so
successful or still successful to this
day
i would i would encourage the nation to
not be fearful
we’re all going to have questions and
the sooner you can
you know drop your guard or put yourself
in that you know quote-unquote
vulnerable state the better off you’re
going to be long-term
and that is great advice all right sean
one final question before we get into
the lightning round
how do you find new information
and learn about the topics you want to
learn about in the water treatment
industry
well trace there’s a plethora of
information out there for us we’re very
fortunate for that
some of the resources i’ve used and
continued to use would
you know first off the awt trtm
uh manual that that’s been a huge
resource the analysts
you know the quarterly magazines that
come out some of the awt
webinars like just yesterday i was
listening to one on stabilize
chlorine which was pretty fascinating to
me linkedin can be another
great resource you know there’s a lot of
technical papers
to read on there to kind of comb through
and kind of
continue to learn more and more things
i’ve been fortunate to have
you know some in-house trainings whether
it’s videos activities
technical papers those kind of things
i’ve also
utilized a lot of books some of these
books i wouldn’t classify
as reads i would classify them as more
of
a technical resource so if you have a
topic you’re interested in
well that’s in the book but you’re not
going to read it front the back
in one sitting or you know some of those
books are
the best handbook drew principal colin
frames got a series of books two on
boilers
one on cooling even something as simple
as you know the ashrae 188
standard that’s another huge resource
that
we need to be able to understand you
know there’s
there’s also some things i i
look at and read you know some podcasts
i’m big into
you know health and wellness podcasts
we’re on the road all the time so
i’m just continuing to try to pick up
knowledge day in
and day out because i’m so fascinated by
learning and i’m
you know a forever learner i guess it’s
a bad way to put it
no i think it’s a great way to put it no
i’m curious if we were to look at your
podcast list what will we see on it
so some things like lewis howes has a
good one
i like listening to dr rhonda patrick
she’s got some fascinating
health stuff on that um and then i like
to listen to some fun ones too like
joe rogan’s podcast i’m actually reading
this new book that’s kind of off the
wall i have these audible credits that
keep showing up and i got to use them
so on the road i’ll often time listen to
books and the new one
i’m listening to is by wim hof so he’s a
dutch athlete
and it’s it’s kind of goes into cold
therapy
and breathing techniques kind of off the
wall subject but it’s
it’s those kind of things that fascinate
me and when i’m on the road
if there’s not a new episode of scaling
up
there’s there’s got to be other
resources that i can
use to kind of fill that windshield time
as well
well fair enough as long as scaling up
is on your number one
list yeah well i get excited you know
when those come out friday
that’s the first podcast i listen to
most fridays
let me ask do you ever re-listen
episodes i do
yeah i do there was the film forming
a means i think that was a three-part
episode
it was it was where it took a couple
times of me listening to that for it all
to kind of sink in
and that’s the other thing it’s not like
you’re gonna learn everything or
you know retain all the information in
one sitting you know oftentimes you
gotta
you gotta listen to something more than
once or you got to read something more
more than once before it’ll actually
sink in yeah i was working with somebody
to help us develop statistics for the
podcast
and we were analyzing how many times
people
listen to episodes multiple times and
the the people we were working with they
they didn’t believe us they thought we
were getting the data wrong
so they started collecting the data and
they said it it’s
unheard of for a podcast to have
so many people listen to episodes
multiple times so i’m just fascinated
with that
and i’m glad that we’re able to put
information out to the scaling up nation
that obviously
you and other listeners can find useful
yeah
no i think that’s great and i think that
just speaks to some of the
you know technical or information you
you’ve had some pretty prestigious
people on the podcast that shared a ton
of information and it’s really the who’s
who
of water treatment sean i think many
will include
you on that list so are you ready for
the lightning round
i am i knew this was coming and uh it’s
it’s interesting to hear how different
people answer these questions so
it should be fun yeah and that’s the
whole point of this they’re the same
questions to
to all my guests so people can compare
and contrast
what their answers are so my first
question you can now go back in time and
talk to your former self on your first
day as a water treater what advice would
you give yourself
i would say number one be patient you
know it’s gonna take some time
before you’re gonna feel like you can be
confident
going out there and and be successful
try not to overwhelm yourself as much as
you did
maybe take some more time to enjoy life
instead of just continuing to seek all
this technical knowledge
have fun with it you know this is a
really
interesting industry to be a part of and
uh
you can have fun with it you know sean
you mentioned you like to use
audible to read if we were to look in
your book cue what books would we find
some of the books i’ve recently listened
to are the seven habits of highly
effective people
we read that one in the mastermind group
the miracle morning traction the
advantage
uh principles 12-week year
another good one was can’t hurt me by
david goggins
i mean i’m on the road all day every day
so
these these books really help you know
keep me productive i like to be
productive at all times so
when i’m sitting in the car and can’t do
much these kind of keep me occupied and
keep me
engaged in new content and
self-development which is very important
to me
that’s awesome do you ever listen to
audible
on a higher speed than what the author
is reading it at
i’ve had people kind of offer that
recommendation
in the past but for me i like to listen
to it at this you know the speed it’s
you know 1.0 or whatever if it gets too
fast i find that it’s hard for me to
retain it all i totally agree i’ve been
in a car with somebody who
you know when you first turn the car on
and then their audible starts playing
because
that was what was playing before and it
was
so incredibly fast there was just no way
that they could have picked up any
content from that
but i think it made them feel good that
they could check the box that they’ve
listened to that book
we don’t have time to do that make sure
you’re getting the content out of what
you’re taking the time to read
couldn’t agree more trace well sean
obviously
hollywood will eventually make a movie
about your life who plays sean mcrae
i think i would play myself has anybody
ever answered it that way
nobody has ever answered it that way
interesting all right you get points for
that one my final question
is now you have the ability to go back
throughout history
and talk to anybody you want to talk to
who would it be with
and why i would say my grandparents they
were all
deceased by the time i was brought into
this world so i think it would be
fascinating to
have a conversation with them and kind
of learn more about who they were as
as people and individuals well sean i’ve
definitely
enjoyed having you on scaling up h2o i
know a lot of people
listing in you have given them a lot of
ideas and a lot of motivation to think
about
how they can become more successful not
only as a water treater but also
as an individual well thanks grace it’s
been a pleasure to be on the podcast
and uh look forward to hearing when this
episode gets released
[Music]
nation i’ve got to tell you i am super
impressed with sean
i’m proud to call him my friend and i
get to connect with sean
each and every week because he
is a member of the rising tide
mastermind and i have to tell you as the
facilitator of the rising tide
mastermind just to see
where sean was which was very impressive
when he first started the mastermind
and how he’s challenged himself and
others have challenged him throughout
the year
he has just made tremendous strides so
sean very proud of you thanks for
everything
that you do and thanks for coming on
scaling up
h2o and sharing your story with the
scaling
up nation well folks if you have
somebody
you want me to interview please don’t
keep that to yourself
let me know who that is and i
will reach out to them you want to know
how you can do that well i’m not going
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you can go to scalinguph2o.com
and you will see right there on the main
menu
there is a show ideas button if you
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and i love it when i can play your voice
asking
that question if you’ve ever wondered
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when you go to scalinguph2o.com
right there on the home page you will
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pop-up on the right-hand side of your
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it is amazing the microphones that they
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scaling up
[Music]
h2o
nation how many times have you heard me
talk about the rising tide
mastermind and you’re wondering
if you should make the next step to find
out about becoming a member
well i recently asked michelle farmery
about her experience
and what she had to say about that very
question
someone who is considering joining the
rising tide mastermind
i would say absolutely do it um i know
it it seems like a time commitment
kind of like awt in the source where
everyone says
oh it’s only one hour a week but it ends
up being so much more
it may be one hour a week that you meet
and then you have your little breakout
accountability groups where you can meet
for five minutes ten minutes
but it’s truly it’s not a big time
commitment the time that you will put
into
meeting with this group and really
focusing on how to change your mindset
and be more accomplished accountable
will pay dividends in the long run for
how you’re going to utilize all of your
time
beyond that so your time management will
increase and then i also think
that it would be beneficial because if
you could ask your employer
to possibly help with the cost then
if they’re willing to do it it’s an
investment in you
and i think having an employer sit there
and be willing to take that
risk on you and put that investment in
you shows a lot of trust
in you and i i think that that would
then help you personally i know for me
myself having my employers sit there and
make the investment because mine
covers the cost having them make the
investment in me
makes me feel a sense of pride and makes
me want to work harder
to you know accomplish more things from
a work standpoint
not even just a personal because
mastermind helps yes on the personal
side but also on the business side you
know you’re you’re able to share with
other industry colleagues who have so
much experience
and there’s webinars and just training
opportunities galore
to learn from and grow from and so if
you have an employer invest in
you and get you to
to change your approach and change your
productivity
it’s just it’s an incredible feeling of
accomplishment
from from a work standpoint and a
personal standpoint
nation the first step is always the
hardest
but the great thing about becoming a
member of the rising tide mastermind is
once you make that first step
on your own you have an entire group of
people that are helping you
with every step thereafter sound
too good to be true well folks it’s not
when people get together to help each
other it is amazing
what happens to find out more about
becoming a member of the rising tide
mastermind
go to scalinguph2o.com forward slash
mastermind
you