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welcome to the scaling up h2o podcast my
name is trace blackmore i get to host
the scaling up h2o podcast the podcast
where we scale up on knowledge so we
don’t scale up our systems nation today
we’re going to be talking about
something that we all do
some of us may not like to admit it that
we do it
maybe we even keep it secret from some
people we don’t want to be accused of
doing it what exactly
is it that i’m talking about i’m talking
about selling
for some reason selling has such a
negative connotation to so many people
and i’m willing to bet it’s because of a
situation that you’ve had in your life
where you were treated a certain way and
you just did not like being treated that
way and that’s how you equate selling
well nation whether you like it or not
we are all involved with selling anytime
you’re trying to convey a message that
ultimately results in somebody doing
something
that’s selling
maybe it’s selling to get your kids to
go to bed
maybe it’s selling that you want to buy
something and your significant other
does not think you need to buy it
whatever it is
just look at all the things in our lives
that are really sales and we don’t need
to put that negative image in
whatever that is we just have that in
there and some of us don’t have that in
there i love that i am
a salesperson i think it’s great that i
get to connect others with a potential
solution that i can offer for them i
love being able to do that and that’s
what i consider
sales well today we are interviewing
somebody that we’re going to talk all
about this and we’re going to try to
redefine how you
define
what sales is so nation i know you are
going to enjoy this interview
my lab partner today is bob davis of
wilson learning bob welcome to the
scaling up h2o podcast
thank you very much trace
bob you had the pleasure of having me in
your class know it was my pleasure
having you instruct me on some
techniques on how
we can learn styles of people
differently so we could better fulfill
what their needs were learn what their
issues were and then figure out what
those solutions are i truly enjoyed that
class and i just jumped at the chance
to bring you on this podcast so i could
share with the scaling up nation all the
great things that i learned during your
class and i know we’re going to be
talking a little bit about what we did
in our class but
some more in some general things that we
need to talk about when it comes to the
topic of sales but before we get there i
want to ask you who is bob davis tell us
a little bit about yourself
sure well let me start when i got out of
school i immediately
spent a year at rikers island prison in
new york city
i worked there just to be clear
and from there spent a couple of years
in social services working with mentally
challenged kids and emotionally
disturbed kids and from there developed
a career in sales and interestingly
enough i always tell people that
background that three-year background
working in social services actually
helped me tremendously when i got into
selling
because social services you’re working
with counseling people
and you’re talking to them about what
they want to accomplish and helping them
move places they may not have thought
that they wanted to move or were able to
move to
and in many ways selling is about that
so in my role as a salesperson i’ve sold
capital equipment i’ve sold consumables
and i’ve sold services primarily in the
healthcare field and then joined wilson
learning about two decades ago
where what i do with wilson learning is
a combination of both account management
and i also do facilitation
of selected training programs such as
the one that you went through recently
and bob i have to say you had the best
mix of
learning lecturing
and getting together in breakout rooms
and and having activities a lot of times
classes that i’ve attended seminars that
i’ve attended there’s not a good balance
or
the breakout rooms are just a total mess
and you feel like okay i’m just not
getting anything out of this but
everything built on each other i
thoroughly enjoyed those two days
well you know it was interesting it was
a real challenge for me frankly
switching to virtual training from live
classroom because frankly i feed on the
reaction of my audience and you get so
much of that in a live session and in
fact i actually do a lot of global and
national sales meetings and have worked
with groups as large as 500 people so it
was a real stretch for me to do that but
after some experimentation i think i
finally cracked the code on how do you
make virtual training as good as live
training and i appreciate that feedback
from the recent session you went through
and that session was made up of all
water treaters a lot of mastermind
members
how difficult was it for you to learn
enough about our industry to present it
as well as you did
you know it’s an interesting question
because i’ve worked with so many
differing industries over a quarter of a
century i mean i’ve got background in
everything from water treatment to
medical device to insurance to banking
i’ve worked so much in all of those
industries so it really helps me come to
sessions like that one with some
background already in what’s water
treatment all about for example you know
i did a project years back with us
filter
which is now siemens so learned a lot
about water treatment when i was working
with them so i come to the party already
knowing a lot about most industries that
i wind up working with
the topic that most of us think that
we’re going to be talking about today is
sales but we’re going to elevate that a
little bit we’re going to talk about
negotiation
let’s start right out of the gate what’s
the difference between sales and
negotiation
you know in many ways they’re very
similar they really are but here’s the
significant difference
selling is about what you do to build
value throughout the communication
process with the customer
negotiation
is what you do at the end of the sales
process
but what i maintain is that you are
negotiating even during the sales
process
you’re not negotiating for a deal most
people think negotiation is i’m in a
walnut-encrusted room with very
important people dealing with terms
conditions final pricing the contract
and william yuri the co-author of the
book getting to yes once said if you
wait to negotiate until you’re
negotiating it’s too late
because people don’t realize that i’m
negotiating the very first minute i meet
a new customer
i’m not negotiating for a deal for a
price
i’m negotiating for things like access
to other people i’m negotiating for a
plant tour
i am negotiating to get access to
information
i am constantly negotiating and it is
integrated with selling that’s the big
learning i have found when i teach
negotiating is people say you know i
always thought of it as here’s what
happens when we’re sitting down
at that final table with the contract in
front of us
so how would you describe the
quintessential negotiator
the quintessential negotiator
is
constantly
looking to add value to their customer
they are looking to understand not only
the positions that a customer has
but the interest behind those positions
the key skill in negotiating is taking
the position i want a lower price
i don’t want that term and condition in
the contract
and understanding why that person does
not want that term and condition or
understanding why that price is giving
the other party such angst there’s a
huge difference between what somebody
wants and what they need
and when i talk about negotiating with
salespeople i am
telling them that the best
negotiating trainer in human history
once said this
you can’t always get what you want
but if you try sometime
you get what you need
many people don’t realize that person
was a great negotiating commentator but
he is
and that’s one of the key
differentiators between the good
negotiators and the not so good
negotiators
when we talk about sales or a sales
person
i think everybody conjures the image of
a used car salesman
how do we get past that and by having
the mindset that we’re now a negotiator
does that get us past that
not necessarily
the reason we think that
and when i’ve done training programs in
the past i often ask this question
i say to a group
what’s the first word that comes to mind
when i say this word
word association test
and the word i toss out at the people
i’m training is this
salesperson
well guess what kind of first words come
to mind
not trusted advisor
not honorable person
but words like sleaze cheat i mean these
are terrible words
to be out there connected to salesperson
and here’s what’s really interesting
i do this in an audience filled with
sales people yeah you did it with us
right
and
these people should be thinking about
themselves but they’re not what they’re
thinking about is the kind of
experiences they’ve had when they’ve
worked with salespeople and most of us
are experienced with salespeople frankly
is not that good at best it’s neutral i
went in the store
they packaged the shirt properly they
rang up my credit card but i did not
feel like i had
a stunning experience
where that person was focused on me in a
way that was memorable
our memories of great
buying experiences are few and far
between
so how do we change that perception what
is something that i as a salesperson i
as a negotiator that i hope to be what
is something that i can do that changes
the person i’m communicating with
perception of the situation
the biggest mistake sales people make
is they
too quickly start talking about their
stuff
as opposed to understanding that their
job in a sales interaction
is to get the customer to articulate
their vision of value that is the most
significant thing and how they do that
is by having what i call an issues based
dialogue with a customer rather than a
product or service based dialogue with a
customer in other words my focus needs
to be on understanding what’s going on
with that customer so for example
when i start my interview with a
customer that i’ve not met in the past
i always start it this way i’d like to
tell you a little bit about myself my
company and what we do
but more importantly and that key phrase
is important but more importantly what i
really want to do today is find out
about you your challenges and the
opportunities you’re looking at
and
why you’ve even entertained having a
conversation with me about my product
what’s driving your interest in using
our product and potentially considering
us as a resource i think we need to
right from the get-go that first
sentence out of our miles needs to be
customer-centric
and signals the rules of engagement
with that customer are this i am here to
find out what’s going on with you so
that we can decide together if what i
have to offer
may be useful to you
how important is role play in learning
new techniques
i would say it’s extremely important
and role playing is something that you
don’t have to do in a classroom i mean
you frequently will go to calls with a
manager for example with a support
person that’s working for your company
who’s maybe an sme in some technical
aspect of your water treatment or
whatever you’re selling
why not in the car on the way there say
hey you play the customer i’ll play the
sales person and you be as tough on me
as you can
i want you to raise the toughest
questions you can think that you might
have about me my company and my product
bob it’s always surprised me at how many
people don’t take advantage of that is
that just been my experience or do you
see that as well people aren’t
practicing by role-playing
people aren’t practicing period
and you join the rest of the crowd in
america
what’s what’s amazing to me is how
people don’t practice and you know i
often say when i’m doing my training i
reference ted williams
ted williams the best hitter in baseball
history his batting average life what
not lifetime his best year was 401
well let’s round
400
what does that mean he missed
60 percent of the time but why was he
the best player in baseball history
the best hitter i should say here’s why
you read his biography he practiced he
practiced constantly not just when he
was in front of the ball he would have a
hairbrush in his hand brushing his hair
and anything that was in his hand he
would take and hold it like it was a bat
and practice swinging the hairbrush and
asking himself when should i break my
wrist
to optimize this
practice practice practice trace it’s
like the old joke about the person who
was lost in new york city
walked up to someone and said excuse me
sir but how do i get to carnegie hall
the answer to that corny old joke was
this
practice practice
practice
there you go and that’s how you get good
at negotiating that’s how you get good
at selling
a friend of mine is a trial attorney and
they often do mock trials and i’ve
actually experienced one of the
participants in one of the mock trials
and it was just amazing how practiced
they were
before
they would speak to a jury
and they would throw different curve
balls at each other
so by the time my friend actually was
speaking in the courtroom
he heard things that were far worse than
what was actually being thrown at him
and i was at that point on i knew that
practicing via role play on every
situation when you’re going out and talk
to a customer
obviously we’re not going to take it to
that extreme but it was just amazing to
watch that
if
somebody is listening today and they’ve
never practiced sales before they’ve
never done role play before you mention
you know get with somebody in the car
what if they’re by themselves how can
they practice by themselves
i think when you’re by yourself it’s
obviously not not easy to role play with
yourself you will typically be
successful when you do that
but here’s my thought on getting some
practice with yourself
think about
the toughest questions that a customer
might ask you
write them down
the very hardest questions why is your
product 20 more
than everybody else’s why should i trust
you when you’re a small company when
there are other much larger companies
that i could potentially work with
why should i shift
from the existing company that i work
with
you know there’s a story i tell about a
gentleman by the name of ben duffy who
won a big piece of business because he
did just that ben duffy was working with
a major american company his first call
his call was on the press of the company
he sat in his hotel and wrote down the
toughest questions he thought that
person might ask him brought those
questions to the call the next day and
was therefore prepared for those tough
questions he didn’t have a chance to
role play with anybody he just wrote
them down
the night before
and by the way when you start imagining
the very toughest questions
likely not all of them will come up
but you are at least prepared
by imagining the hardest most horrific
the toughest question that someone might
ask you
and by imagining the toughest one
you know you’re prepared for things that
might even be not quite as tough as mark
twain once said my life has been filled
with many tragedies
most of which never happened
so imagine the toughest thing that could
come up in that meeting and you will
indeed be prepared
well let’s talk as a negotiator now
let’s say somebody did ask the question
you just brought up your price is too
high
what should have been negotiator been
doing up to that point and how should a
negotiator handle that question or our
objection i should say
yeah and there’s really two separate
questions there one is what should they
have done up to that point to prevent
that number one let’s go there to
prevent it and then what to do if it
comes up because it will come up even if
you do everything right that’s the
reality of life
what you should be doing to keep it from
happening
is
focus the conversation on the customer
and what value looks like from their
perspective
by getting the customer to articulate
their vision of value
you are less likely to have the price
objection come up
fact i maintain that most sales people
actually cause the price objection
you want to know why
please because they bring up their
product too soon and if i bring up the
product needless to say the first
question i’m going to ask is wow
why is it so expensive
and in fact most sales people think that
my job is to tell the customer about all
the value ads that my product brings
so i tell you about 10 reasons people
use our product 10 things we baked into
it that are value-add
customer looks at that and says
well gosh i like five of those
but five of them are of zero interest to
me you know what you’ve just done you
have convinced the customer why your
product is more expensive because
someone’s paying for those five other
things
and it’s me
that’s who’s paying for it so you’ve
told them why your product is more
expensive or convince them that your
product is more expensive
now the second part of your question
which is what do i do when it does come
up
here’s my go-to answer and it’s called
performing negotiation jujitsu
negotiation jujitsu means i actually use
the energy of the other party to bring
the conversation where i would like it
to be
so i have two responses to that so
trace play the customer say
gosh bob your product’s way too
expensive
bob i love what i hear but your product
is way too expensive
thank you for that let me write that
down what else
and so what i’ve just done is i’ve told
you i heard what you said
and i wrote it down and in fact when i
write it down i actually smiled the
customer as i’m writing it down but then
i say what else is really important as
you think about the potential of
acquiring our product or service
so i’ve told them i’ve heard them but
i’m saying i want to hear other things
too
that’s one approach
here’s the second approach let’s try it
one more time because you’re pretty good
at role-playing a difficult customer
i’ve had my experience with them i’ll
bet you have i’ll bet you have so let’s
do it one more time
bob it sounds great but your price is
way too high so trace if i understand
you right
it sounds like this is a dollar and
cents issue would that be correct trace
well bob you explain 10 things that your
product does honestly i’m only
interested in five of them and i don’t
have the budget to pay for the other
five well let me go back now i would
never do that i would never have
explained those five things
so you’re talking to the wrong
salesperson but let’s reset this and i
and by the way that is indeed exactly
what would happen
if someone didn’t do what i suggested
earlier let’s assume i didn’t do that
so now back to role play your price is
too high bob
i was told i had a certain budget and we
are not going to be able to make that
budget with the number you just gave me
gotcha so the real problem in your case
is budget
it’s not really dollars and cents it’s
total dollars and cents it’s really
budget is that correct
it is that and if i go over that amount
i cannot handle this decision it then
goes to another committee
gotcha thank you for sharing that with
me well let’s address budget and let’s
now address dollars and cents because if
you did sign off on this you’ve got some
explaining to do right
absolutely
so let’s talk about dollars and cents
and how
dollars and cents gets impacted by what
i’m offering you
so let’s stop the role play now now what
i just did two things
i want to shift the conversations to
dollars and cents
because i may talking to one of the
people who attended your last class
he talked about how he sells a piece of
capital equipment that doesn’t break as
often as the competitors
so now he’s able to talk to that company
about dollars and cents let’s talk about
what it costs you for down time when
this other product breaks even though
the customer said to them
that their service team is great they’re
in here in a flash every time something
goes wrong
well that’s great but when they get
there still how long is your system down
and you can’t produce
so i try to shift the discussion and dig
down into what else is going on
and in fact i wouldn’t hesitate if this
is going to another committee i would
welcome that because as long as you’ve
been a cooperative customer with me
i’d want to find out what’s really
important what other value this product
brings
so that i can help you build a victory
speech bill yuri in his book getting
past no which is another great book on
negotiating that he’s written he talks
about how do i build a golden bridge for
the person that i’m negotiating with
in other words how do i give you
something that you can go to that other
party with that other committee with
that has you looking good he says how do
i help trace build a victory speech
and if trace a cooperative customer and
he really does want my stuff but he’s
limited by budget and knowing that
there’s other people involved i’m
helping trace build that golden bridge
for himself and build a victory speech
reed yuri’s book yuri’s stuff is great
he’s from the harvard program on
negotiating and when i talk to people
about negotiating that’s the methodology
that i’m talking about
bob the reason i brought up the word
committee is
i think old sales training the old
training that we all had
was it was you and your customer but now
decisions don’t get made that way they
might get influenced by one person but
there might be a dozen people that have
to sign off on something what should we
be doing to make sure we’re handling the
objections of every person knowing that
maybe the most influential person in the
room is never saying a word
a couple of things number one
and in negotiating when
i’m teaching negotiating we talk to
people about the importance of
early as possible
build a stakeholder map
find out who the stakeholders are and
here is the worst question to ask to
identify that
never ask are you the decision maker
you just devalued everybody else in the
room
my goodness you you certainly had and
you know what every time i’ve asked that
of someone in the past before i knew
better than to ask that
someone would say of course i am i never
had anybody say
kebab
i am a low paid lackey around here no
one pays any attention to me that’s
never the answer i get it’s always yes
i’m the decision maker i have a much
better question that will help you
identify the stakeholders and it’s this
walk me through the process
you envision
as you acquire this capital equipment as
you acquire this new water treatment
process that we’re discussing here
so what i’ve done with that question is
i’ve taken it from a people question and
made it a process question and that is a
question that is not about power and
influence
and people tend to want to answer that
question they’ll say things like
you know uh well first of all myself and
jim you know we’re basically vetting the
various vendors that have solutions in
that area terrific so it’s you and jim
first and and then what happens after
you vetted you’ve got a skinny list of
the people that are acceptable
well then it goes to our cfo
so he runs the numbers that i asked
those vendors we’ve selected
to give us some financial figures and
then what
and then if it passed that muster then
the president of our organization gives
the final stamp of approval
i just got
all the decision the real decision maker
is the president and a strong decision
influencer is the cfo one of the biggest
mistakes people make when negotiating is
this in selling as well
they confuse a strong influencer
with the decision maker
and never mind the decision-maker might
even be that roman not say much the
decision maker may not even be visible
to you
and everybody in selling has had this
experience i thought i had the deal
sewed up in fact i forecasted it for q4
and then i went back to my customer
who’s been helpful in working with me
and the customer said i’m really sorry
but jim smith said we’re going in
another direction well who the heck is
jim smith
that was the decision maker that i
didn’t find out because i didn’t build a
process map of how they envisioned
themselves making a decision
bob is there any way to salvage that
once you get that information that jim
smith has now decided to go someplace
else
maybe he hasn’t quite put ink to paper
is there any way you can still salvage
that deal do you have any technique with
that
uh yeah drugs and therapy could help you
at that point
i think frankly once you’ve reached that
point it’s often totally lost
but it doesn’t mean you have to
immediately cave and walk out like a dog
with a tail between its legs
you can certainly just start asking a
few more questions well
fill me in on jim smith’s thinking on
this
what’s going on with him
maybe then i can get some clues
that could help me re-engage with jim
smith
now if this person has trusted me if
i’ve done my work and built trust
i might be able to ask this person you
know i i realize that you’re going in
that direction
but i would welcome having a brief
meeting with with jim smith because
we’ve spent so much time together and if
you’ve earned that person’s trust you
may earn the right to do that
but quite frankly the drugs and therapy
route might be the only thing left for
you
whenever you’re
in sales
hopefully we’re all thinking that we’re
not sales people now we are negotiators
we’re having that mindset we’re having
those conversations with our customers
what are some of the things what are
some of the metrics that we should be
monitoring
a couple of things and this you know
the metric that most often gets measured
in sales and by sales managers is the
sale
here’s the problem that’s looking
backwards
because if my sales are down i should
have been let go or counseled or coached
three to six months ago
it’s too late to fix things
the kind of metrics that we and our
sales managers should be looking at are
things like how much time are customers
willing to spend with me
another metric
did i have a call
that was focused on
issues challenges and opportunities that
this customer is facing
and how you can measure that metric is
this
could i sit down and write an email to
the customer summarizing our meeting
and that summary is more about
the customer not about my product that
whole summary is about here’s the issues
you’re facing you’re concerned about
safety in
the water that’s in your hotel you’re
concerned about how much time it’s
taking for people to do the various
testing you’re concerned about the
exposure of your staff to chemicals that
are being utilized right now in your
water safety
i want my email to all be listing those
kinds of things
rather than anything about my product
so i can conclude the email by saying
you shared a number of things that will
help me
put together a draft on the ways i think
we can be of help to you
let me know i caught it all and i’d like
to stop it next week with some draft
ideas on how we might begin working
together
bob whenever we have a process that we
can follow things just get easier
because we can visually see that
what should our process be
as a
negotiator i think it’s it’s simple it’s
threefold
and
the way to learn this process best
is go to amazon look up books by william
yuri you are why
the process that came out of
harvard many years ago and has been
amplified and enhanced by william yuri
is the process to follow and it’s three
simple steps the first thing is
i deal with people issues
and within that the specific strategy is
stepping to the side of the other party
and doing that as early and as
frequently as you can
it does not mean agreeing with
everything they say it means validating
their thinking and or feelings
and showing them that the real interest
you have is understanding them
this is why one of the things i said
earlier was i start meetings by saying
i’m here to tell you a little bit about
myself but more importantly i want to
find out about what’s driving your need
to consider a change in your water
chemistry uh protocol at xyz company but
more importantly is a key word i am
stepping to their side by doing that
that’s step one dealing with people
issues step two is exploring issues
how do i get really good at asking
penetrating questions
that help the customer articulate their
vision of value
and the questions are not about product
i’m not asking them tell me about the
products you’re using right now you do
need to know that tell me about the
machine you’re using the capital
equipment you’re using
i want to really find out what are their
issues
tell me what concerns you have around
water safety
tell me about the issues you’re
concerned with regarding your staff’s
exposure to the chemicals that they’re
currently using
in in your process
i want it to be about them
and when i’m exploring issues i always
get at interests behind
positions
it’s not what somebody wants
it’s why they want it
it’s like the story about the two kids
that were fighting over the last orange
in the fridge
mom comes into the kitchen or dad comes
into the kitchen
and they’re fighting it’s the last
orange what’s a good parent to do well
most people when i ask this question
when i train negotiating say well split
the orange
well guess what one kid is going to be
upset i got more seeds in mind
wait she got a bigger half or he got a
bigger half
if that mom had or dad had only asked
why do you want the orange
they would have found out that one child
wanted it because it’s hot out and i
want this nice cold orange juice it’s
been in the fridge all day
if she said to the other child why do
you want it well i just finished a home
economics class on the internet with my
school and they talked about making
orange frosting and you use this thing
called orange zest
and so i want to make that frosting i’d
love to make some cupcakes today if that
parent knew that both of them could have
had exactly what they wanted
100 of the pulp goes to one child one
hundred percent of the orange rhine goes
to the other child the mistake we make
is not asking those questions
to understand what’s behind it instead
we’re taught to overcome objections as
soon as there’s an objection we give a
snappy answer and you know what happens
when we do that we get a second
objection
and it looks like you’re playing
ping-pong with the customer with
objections going back and forth so
exploring issues is is critical and you
can read more about that in yuri’s books
finally how do i now present an offer
that cannot be refused
that only happens because you’ve done
all the things preceding it
as yuri said so famously if you wait to
negotiate until you’re negotiating it’s
too late
you haven’t discovered the interest
behind positions and that’s why you are
not delivering options that are truly
for mutual gain between you and the
other party
bob tell us a little bit about some of
the classes that you personally teach
classes i teach i stick to my knitting
and i just teach three particular
classes
negotiating is one of them and
interestingly enough i am finding that
there is
many more of my clients asking for that
as a class
second class is counselor salesperson
consultative selling everybody wants to
know how do i sell consultatively how do
i become a trusted advisor
in the customer’s mind
how do i collapse the sales cycle
that’s what we that’s what gets talked
about in that program and lastly
something called versatile salesperson
and that’s the class you went through
it’s really about
how do i adapt
myself to people that are different than
me
how do i understand the differences in
human beings and understand that someone
is not being difficult necessarily
they’re just being how they wound up
landed on the planet
and i need to understand those
differences
so that i can withhold judgment
and i can work with that person if i
happen to be something that
you know some of your audience may be
familiar with this term if i’m an
amiable i’m concerned about how’s
everybody feeling i’m concerned about
feelings i’m concerned about people i
need to learn to work with the drivers
the people that are bottom line oriented
that don’t want to know about my dog
fluffy and how my weekend was
they just care about the work to be done
end of story
well i need to understand if i’m an
amiable that that person’s not being
mean
that person is simply being how they are
and guess what when you get the work
done with the driver then they will play
so drivers work first place second
amiables
like to play first work second
and i need to understand that so that i
can flip what i do when i meet someone
who’s in opposite style for myself that
in a nutshell describes that program
bob if somebody is listening today and
one or all of those courses really
intrigue them how can they find out more
information
uh just get in touch with me
i work for an agency of wilson learning
and so um
they would just contact me at b davis
newview.com let me spell new view
because it’s different
n
u
v u e
newview.com and that will get to me and
i’m more than happy to talk to any of
your listeners
i’ll make sure to have that contact
information on our show notes page
bob not quite done with you yet i’ve got
some lightning round questions so are
you buckled in are you ready
i’m ready
my first question if you had the ability
to go back in time and talk to your
former self on your first day as a
negotiator what advice would you give
stop telling people about your product
focus on
why they want your product
who plays bob in a movie
tom hanks
i love that answer last question
if you could talk with anybody
throughout history who to be with and
why
probably jesus christ
and i say this believe it or not
partly from a spiritual sense
but he did an outstanding job of
selling if you will by asking questions
he answered a question with a question
you know whose face is on this coin when
people ask him about money
well then render unto seizure what is
caesar’s
he understood how to get the other
person to articulate their vision of
value
that’s an amazing answer bob this has
been so much fun i have no doubt we
could probably have this conversation
for another hour
so
be on the lookout for me inviting you
back for a follow-up episode but i just
want to thank you for coming on scaling
up h2o
well it’s a pleasure being here and i
trust that some of the ideas we’ve
shared have been uh useful and added
value to the people you serve
bob thanks again for coming on scaling
up h2o a couple of months ago i had the
privilege to attend one of bob’s
seminars
with several of the rising tide
mastermind members and we just had a lot
of fun he
is a really good facilitator and also
instructor
he had probably the best balance ever
that i’ve experienced of group work to
lecture
to self-work it just seemed to move very
well so very well done bob i really
enjoyed it and i would recommend for
anybody who’s listening if you want to
take a sales class from bob you will not
be let down more information on that is
on my show notes page
nation i’ve got a couple of phone calls
where people want to know where the heck
is the continuation of episode 237 you
left us hanging on that pinks and blues
on how to clean a cooling tower or
nation don’t worry that’s coming up next
week we decided to split the pinks and
blues up a little bit so hopefully the
anticipation is worth it if you have not
listened to episode 237 i would highly
recommend that you listen to that before
episode 240 that comes out next week
and before we have episode 240 coming
out next week we still have one item of
business left and that of course is with
the help of our friend james mcdonald
here is a brand new
thinking on water with james
welcome to thinking on water with james
the segment where we don’t give you the
answers we give you the topics and
questions for you to think about drop by
drop
now let’s get to it in this week’s
episode we’re thinking about how
pressure and temperature affect the flux
rate of water through a reverse osmosis
membrane
as the makeup water temperature
increases how does this impact how much
water can get through an ro membrane
does it increase or decrease or remain
unchanged
similarly how can an increasing ro feed
pressure impact how much water gets
through the membrane
how do these two changing parameters
affect the overall performance of the ro
how can they muddy the water so to speak
when trying to judge changes in rl
performance to determine when it’s time
to clean the membranes how do they
impact the rate of dissolved solids
making it through the membrane
take this week to think about the impact
of pressure and temperature on rl
membrane performance
be sure to follow
tow 22 and hashtag scaling up h2o share
your thoughts on each week’s thinking on
water
i’m james mcdonald and i look forward to
learning more from you
scaling up nation if you have not caught
up to all of the thinking on water with
james it’s not too late in fact we have
an entire archive on our show notes page
you can simply go back to previous
episodes and listen to all of those not
hard to catch up at all and of course
the more we think on water the more we
are going to do with water the better we
are going to become treating water and
the circle just keeps growing bigger and
bigger james thanks again for putting
all the time in that you do with that
and making us just a little bit better
each and every day nation as mentioned
you will have that continuation episode
next week episode 240 where we’re going
to be continuing that scaling up nation
members question about cleaning cooling
towers until then i hope you have a fun
and safe week go out there and sell
something take care of each other have a
great week folks
[Music]
the one way that the mastermind has
helped me approach my leadership
differently is i like to see different
people’s perspectives if i have a
question about what should i do about a
situation or how i should kind of i
guess captain my ship it’s really nice
to see different people’s perspectives
and the in the middle which is where a
designated person every week brings an
issue to the group where we discuss it
and give advice you know seeing the in
the middle of myself and my fellow
groupmates has really helped me answer
any you know leadership questions i have
really given me some you know tough
things to think about and it’s just kind
of helped me maintain best practices or
at least reaffirm that i’m on the right
track when we worked on traction and
looked into eos that’s definitely
something that i’d like to do for our
leadership in the future and it’s really
given me an understanding where i feel
like i can take that and move forward
to find out more go to
scalinguph2o.com forward slash
mastermind
[Music]
you