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welcome to scaling up H2O the podcast where we scale up on knowledge so we don’t scale up our systems I’m Trace
Blackmore and Happy Thanksgiving everyone I love this holiday it is my favorite
holiday of the entire year I love to cook I love to serve people and I love
getting compliments about how good my cooking and serving is yeah I’m a red temperament anyway I absolutely love
this holiday we always do a Thanksgiving where we have no idea who is going to
show we call it Wayward Thanksgiving and anybody who is staying at home that
normally goes to visit family or maybe they have people come over and this year they’re not and they’re spending
Thanksgiving by themselves we always invite those families over we have had
four people people at our Thanksgiving Day table we have had 34 people at our
Thanksgiving Day table now this makes it very difficult to plan but it also makes
me very thankful that my wife and I are able to do that and of course this year
we have our son Hayden that’s sharing Thanksgiving with us and we are so
thankful for that and all the things that he has brought in our lives all the things that he continues to teach us and
all the things I didn’t know I didn’t know until I was educated by a 15 year
old boy so there you go Nation I hope you take a moment and just think what
are you thankful for I’m thankful for being in this industry this is the best
industry in the world I am so thankful that my father introduced it to me that
he offered me a a job when I was not happy as a financial planner and I
decided to take him up on that and I’ve never looked back in my worst day in
water treatment was probably better than my best day as a financial planner I
just did not enjoy that job I enjoyed the people I worked with but it was just a totally different mindset the team
that I was part of didn’t really gel with my mindset anyway all that said I
got a lot of Knowledge from that but I just wasn’t happy and I have been more
than my fair share of happy being an industrial water treater and I don’t
think I would have had a podcast if I wasn’t an industrial water Trader it definitely would not have been called
scaling up H2O and I also want to thank
all of you out there in the scaling up Nation for listening for allowing me to
have this show for allowing me to speak to you each and every week and letting
you know something that I find interesting in our industry for
listening along as I’m learning with you as we invite our very talented guests
and they are letting us know something more about a topic that involves our
industry speaking of that people ask me all the time Trace why do you speak about finances why do you speak about
water treatment why do you speak about business operating systems why do you
speak about cyber security and I’m trying to think of the multitude of different topics that I have had on the
scaling up H2O podcast well it seems very complex but it’s very simple I run
an industrial water treatment company and anything that I found useful in
running my company or helping the people that I work with I share with you the
scaling up Nation it is really hard to find out what you don’t know you don’t
know and when you find that what do you do with it and how do you help somebody
else well that’s why I started this podcast so it is just amusings of all
the things I didn’t know I didn’t know and I found some information and I want to make it easier for you to take the
information that I have found throughout my lifetime and utilize it so you can go
much further than I am and I hope that you enjoy the podcast I hope you enjoy
the topics by all means if you have a topic idea I would be thankful if you
went to scaling up h2o.com and shared your show ideas with me or maybe your
potential guest you want me to interview or anything that you have to share on
the podcast we definitely have a spot for that on scalinguph2o.com
you can go to our show ideas page and there it is very easy for you to let us
know what it is that you want to hear I’m thankful that you have done that
there might be one listener out there that hasn’t done that yet so you know who you are go ahead and do that because
this show is getting ready to be over 300 episodes and uh if if you don’t
count the wacky numbering that we did in the very beginning we’re actually over 300 episodes so well over 300 episodes
in I’m always worried we’re gonna run out of things to talk about so help me
make sure that that does not happen and let me know what it is you want to hear
I hope you love Thanksgiving as much as I do and I want to introduce you to our
next guest so here is that interview
my lab partner today is simra ghoul and simra welcome to the scaling up H2O
podcast thank you so much thank you for having me here it’s nice to see you guys it’s
always good to see you you know I was thinking back I think the first time you and I met each other was several years
ago at an awt conference in Palm Springs is that right that’s correct that’s
correct I believe it was at a young professional’s meeting and they still allow me into those things uh I’m not
young and I’m not professional but I they still invite me and I’m so glad they did because you and I I think we uh
we chatted over at the side maybe James McDonald introduced us at first yes yes
correct James is one of the mentor for me he helped me a lot well he has helped
all of us he uh of course does thinking on water with James and uh he he helps
the entire industry I consider him a mentor as well well I’m curious how long
have you been doing what you’re doing and I tell you what before we get there why don’t you tell the scaling up Nation
a bit about yourself okay uh my name is Tim
I am originally from turkey and my background I’m chemical engineer
I have bachelor degree in chemical engineer I have master’s degree in material engineering on nanotechnology
I involve water treatment when I was in a master I was doing a project for
Mercedes so in Germany and turkey I was going between them and I see uh first in
Mercedes facility they were doing the extreme motor treatment and I was just
amazed about it and then I started part-time during my Master’s Degree uh
summer times I was working as a water treater after I graduate and I started
as a full full time for water treated I think it’s 2006 2007. CSN I’ve been here
and I love my job I’m curious how did you get involved in this industry
my brother my brother
brother and they wanted to grow and I was helping them for the chemistry
part when I was during the Masters during the summer time I was happy and
then after we graduate I started to work with them and the company growth amazing
and it’s included industry heavy industry and it’s just after that it’s
got the bigger and bigger so what brought you to the United States actually I came from work I was
completely transferred to a year in rest of the earth world I have to tell this less software uh unfortunately everyone
thinks that U.S is the chemical health every company I know back in Europe they
want their dreaming to have a company in U.S because of the regulation difference and they want to continue water
treatment here I I was sent here to start up the company and I came and I
started up summer you didn’t waste any time when you got to the United States it wasn’t
too long that you were involved in the awt how did you make that connection
I have always involved volunteer stuff always and not only awt I have remembered
almost every water treatment organization I believe that we have to
give back for the nature we have to you know this is our contribution to the world we know what we are doing we are
water treater and we have to share this we have to help whatever we are doing in
the positive way and then I my company I started to work syntax and take one of
the good company you can work because my company’s support Improvement they
believe they are believe the same things like us they believe how important training how
important you know to grow of yourself and they were involved with availability
and first time before that I didn’t even heard awt at all I was in American
Chemical Society American Water work Association horrible to environment
foundation so many organizations but not awt I heard I first heard aw from my
company sister and I involved and I I met amazing people there it’s like a
walking Library you know so many valuable people there and since then I
have been here I am chair in pre-treatment committee I am a member of cooling committee and I try to my best
to contribute to the market and I love the fact that you’re not just
a member you’re not just paying dues to the association of water Technologies you are contributing you are chairing a
committee how did you go from joining to chairing a committee actually it is that
the first convention that I join and I mean I see people to work with and I did
amazing Network and the first thing I find I try to find who is the
organization who is the head of this and I directly go and find someone and I
first think I ask how can I help I really think this committee needs more
volunteer and then I involve a technical committee cooling committed you know
pre-treatment committee and after that we try to do our best to make contribution
okay I have to say I love that your first response was when you met people
was to say how can I help that is such a stewardship mentality and I bet it just
changes everything hey how what can you give me you don’t want to ask somebody that and they they just don’t know who
you are and that’s just going to be a weird thing but if you say how can I help you who is somebody that I know
that maybe you want to meet what’s something that you’re working on that I can help that’s a totally different
conversation and it opens doors immediately that’s fantastic Take Care
thank you I actually think that you know when I met people from awt they’re all
valuable people they all have huge experience yeah and I just my first
things I thought we should share our experience for the other people so if
this is the things we can we have to improve our Market we have to to improve
because we can change we can change we can really change something in the water
and its effect by ripping our world this is our thing we have we have to do it I agree it is all of
our duty to do that you mentioned a couple of other organizations so I
wanted to maybe ask you some questions about those so the American Chemical Society what’s something you get out of
that why do you remember that actually it is also one of the good sources
besides Network beside all the network because you are me you are meeting amazing people there too and this is the
good things however water treatment is alive you’ll have to always have to be
up to date chemistry okay there is we are not creating new chemistry maybe but
the technology is changing all the time and it affects everything and when I
trained when I was in university first thing my professor told me the best
chemist the best chemical engineer is the one who use less chemical up so in
order to use less chemical you have to know the chemistry and American Chemical
Society is really good source for that because the people there this huge
community and you can see what is changing you can keep your you up to
date otherwise the minute you can stop learning it is the point you are gonna
lose uh Improvement that’s right in that case American society is a really good
sources for me always be learning well tell us a little bit about why you’re a member of the American Water Works
Association they’re creating great sources like handbooks they are doing internal
meetings and all of them they are just trying to improve the market and all the
aim is watered and they really try the most they are talking in the domestic part we are working most in domestic
part but we all try to improve something we all try to all this organization try
to make something a little bit better and it is for me it is brainstorming it
is literally brainstorming and you can see different parts of the water
treatment you can see how you can improve yourself and how you can also contribute them because most of the
organization in the US I am in the end of the day I’m the other part of the world and I have different experiences
and this is good for me to share with the people and it is also people in the
water organization they try to be involved for the regulations
I know you’re a member of a lot of Association so my question to you is how
did you first find all those associations and then how did you choose which ones you wanted to join and be
active in back in my culture when you are engineer especially in chemical engineering we have our organization you
have to part of it because literally like that you have to improve yourself
and being member of organization it is part of this because when you remember
this you have to join their training to improve yourself to keep you up to date
so when I first moved here I thought the same thing same mentality and I was
searching but when I searching all of them I like all of them but I know I
don’t have that much time to do the first what I did of course I I start for
the American Chemical Society and I see what they are doing it’s mostly out of the water treatment and I was looking
for something more included water treatment part and then I find the other organization and
then first year I just try to see what they are doing in the project and how
important the project because I I want to do volunteer stuff if it is effect of
something I just don’t want to do something just to do it you know if it
is effect on the environment if it’s I am by the way really good environmentalist I really care
environment so much and that’s why my aim was if it is helping for the
environment or if it is helping for the market to improve something what was the
aim that’s why first you know I try to see what is going on and then after that
I see the project then I started to be a volunteer awt was a different though I
started first thing well and we’re glad you did because of course that’s where we met well let’s talk about your
passion for the environment because I think you are in the industry I’m in the
industry all of our scaling up Nation listeners are in an industry where we
could just have a tremendous impact so you have an open mic you’ve got tens of
thousands of listeners that are listening to you what do you want them to know the fact that their industrial
water Traders what can they do to help the environment I think first we all started training I
really think education will change everything if the people know how to use
their water if the people know how they are going to use chemicals if the people
know how valuable water everything can be changed even we can change one person
it’s gonna affect positive effect we have already damaged the world so much
so only a way to make it slower I know
we are not gonna stop it but to make it slower we are so critical here we have
to make the more training we have to involve regulations because people most
of the people who are doing regulation they don’t even know water treatment and if even one person one water treated
include for the right person include for the regulation it is gonna do amazing
ability to be more productive more productive we have to do as much as
training we also have to share our experience for New Generation they also need it they need to know because we are
unfortunately inherited the worst water condition we are inherited you know
verse words right now we are really damaging our natural sources so I think
it starts with the training we have to do training as much as possible when you came for a visit during
industrial water week earlier the about two months ago you were mentioning that
in Turkey the water quality wasn’t what we are used to here in the United States
and because of that you were forced to clean up the water before you use the
water so you could get more use of the water we haven’t experienced that here
we’re very blessed with clean water in the United States so without that experience what will you say to
everybody listening you know why should we be better stewards of the water not
having that experience first of all we have to know how to
conserve water we have to do saving water I have to tell this I used to leave a boardroom turkey it is Peninsula
they have that water sausage will be you know middle of the season because it is
super popular touristic places and its population you know it’s normal
population about 300 000 but during the summer time it’s increased almost 2
million so as a result we didn’t have enough water resources in there we
cannot even wash our car it is forbidden you can get punishment for that one okay
we are so blessed in U.S but if it can’t save water it is going to be similar
because when we have water shortage when it starts it’s not gonna come back it is
just not gonna global warming it’s getting its worse so we have to start first how we can say save water we have
to save water and I believe every single person has personal responsibility for
that when we are at home we have to be careful we use water less how we can use
less water or when we are doing here even for the mid-range water we have to
think how this whatever we are putting in drain how it’s gonna affect our breast water treatment you know small
impact can create for the butterfly effect every single person if you can
not take attention save water and try to keep it clean try to reuse it it is
going to affect and I think as a water treater our responsibility here to inform the society as a person we all
have to say water we all have to be careful when we are consuming the water
I think that’s great advice and you know one of the fortunate and probably unfortunate things in the United States
is how cheap the water is and because it’s so undervalued with monetary
reasons we don’t value it as much as we should for being the most valuable
resource we have on this planet that’s true
there is a chip that’s correct but energy is expensive and just even you
know you can save energy from your boiler it’s everything so related to each other we have to see this as well
you know when you reduce blow down in your boiler in your cooling tower you
are gonna save energy you are not only saving the water we I think when you
have something so much you cannot see what happened the luck of it or we
cannot we cannot notice you know I I just think right now energy crisis
little bit you can feel it’s getting increasing that’s why I have hope there
are going to be more careful about water sight as a result of this energy crisis well I love that you said the butterfly
effect because you’re absolutely right if if we take better care of the water if we’re using less of it if we’re using
it uh for a longer period of time before it gets discharged and maybe that’s adding some pre-treatment so less stuff
is in the water and we can use the water longer that’s going to translate into
using less fuel that’s going to translate into better heat transfer all the things that we use water for we’re
going to be able to use it better so cheap actually can be expensive I think
that’s a great point that’s true that’s true you know uh as I said before I was reading one article I
think it was U.S energy and Department the only corrosion cost uh for U.S it is
billion dollars what per year this is huge and you can just radius for this
for water treatment just correct order treatment you can reduce it and it’s it
looks cheap but I believe it is more expensive things it’s a great Point simra what is your
day-to-day like I try to start the day as a as well I mostly wake up at 5 30.
try to do yoga and meditation before I started and I like me time I try to have
time with myself I I like I don’t like rush so I like drinking my coffee in you
know enjoy it and I try to use social media only early morning not during the
day I try to stay away from it and I focus on my work and I try to be as active as possible I
try to be as healthy as possible and I like going out I like workouts a lot I
do a last workout um and also the person’s impact I can also
say I try to get some training every at least four training four courses per
year this is also my thing I try to keep myself up to date well I find it
interesting because a lot of people will get a master’s degree and they say I’m done with school but you’re always
looking for something to learn next how how do you find the next thing you need
to learn I think it’s because of our work because water treatment is a it is
completely different from any kind of engineering any kind of work I think because everything is changing and the
thing is I like for the water treatment when you go to facility when you if
there’s a troubleshooting you need to know the process you know even if you
don’t want to learn anything you need to learn the process your customer and this
creates you available learning for you or technology is changing a lot technology is changing a lot if you want
to be successful whatever you are doing it’s not only about your treatment I think I think education will change
everything and this education start for the personal education even you know I
haven’t do less water treatment maybe more than five or no it’s more than
seven years since I came U.S I haven’t seen less water because my company doesn’t do best water I still try to
read the articles for West Water because I don’t want to I still want to keep
myself up to date and I think as a people if we want to be successful we
have to lifetime learning we have to do that there is there is no way training
finish you know it’s like it is when baby learn talking they can’t stop it
has to learn reading then it has the right thing this is a process you have
to do all the time I think what is one of your most interesting troubleshooting
stories ah this was a funny one I uh do you I
don’t know do you know Kubota this is they are creating Kubota Japanese
company but I pronounce and Kubota it was big I’d say I don’t
even remember it was 2 000 something they did their first trial uh MBR system
in boardroom where I used to live so I involved this project I was the actually
one of the first in boom engineers in the in this project and this paper and
they are trying to treat they are trying to use my brand treatment for the best
water and everyone’s eyes is on the project and the project was huge it was
super super expensive and it was pilot project but the membrane West Waters they were
the membranes of the systems they were also super expensive and it was coming
from the Japan it’s not you know when you need you cannot get it mixed and unfortunately couple of our members they
come with the efficient their poor was clogged or damaged and we don’t have to
like we cannot stop the systems because the sewer was at the government municipality unit so we have to solve
the problem we have so many efficient membrane and next membrane will come
maybe one month later it’s impossible to work on it but we did we use glue
industrial glue and we glued the efficient pores in the background be
defected we just glue them and be able to actually it’s work be able to reuse
this may run back we did it and actually after that people to use it as a
troubleshooting they create their video for that male transaction wow it sounds
more like a craft project it is you know as a what’s your tutor this is what I like our every customer every
troubleshooting is the uni and you have to find a custom solution you just have
to yeah I tell you what I love about seeing your face as you’ve told me that
story is you love this job I do I wanna do summer you love this job so much I’m
sure you’ve seen some things in this industry that just make you think what were people thinking why are you doing
this you now have an open mic what do you want to tell people in this industry
to stop doing I think first thing they have to stop
they are the best everyone is the same for the customer it
is same for the people they start you have to stop not learning in my
experience I trained so many young engineers and I can’t tell the minutes
they get the first troubleshooting they think they’re done and this is the point they’re gonna suicide in their career
and I think it is the same for the customer when we go that all all you
guys didn’t see that all customers know better than the World Trade Center they think they think they know everything
but my freaked out points people who doesn’t have information
information or background but they have idea about everything because they know
everything this is the thief they have to stop this is the things they have to trust more learning this is the things
they have to open for the news because I also think people they have to go
open-minded they have to be word is changing technology is changing we have
to renew ourselves we have to stop we think we are the best we cannot do that
you heard it here first where do you see our industry 20 years from now
I see gonna be super
we are gonna have really big water shortage in general in the world and
water going to be like a uh you know Gus will have important God is right now
water going to be that important so and as you’re going to be that important and
I think it’s gonna be so critical point it’s going to be super critical
and I hope for the environmental reason we are gonna do we are gonna I I also
see that we are gonna do uh use less chemical we are gonna do a mostly
mechanical stuff and I think because of the all these problems right now we have
dealing with we are going to be much more environmental friend and green I think it’s going that way but definitely
definitely water treatment going to be much much critical in the all around
between all the occupations I totally agree with that we’re in a
hiring shortage right now everybody’s looking for new team members nobody can find them what do you think about that
do you think that’s going to change you think it’s going to get better what’s your take I hope it’s gonna change but this is
also our responsibility too because all the industry they are having a problem
for find right people because nobody wants to work the field anymore it’s not
attractive for the people everyone wants to work from home everyone wants to travel everyone and I think also people
who want new generation especially they want much easier or interesting jobs
this is the things but this is our responsibility we can make our if we
introduce our job rightly I believe it is interesting they can interest for
that and every sector every Market there right now have hiring process because
people especially new generation as I see they want to be something right away
and unfortunately is a water theater you need to experience for experience you
need to be patients this part we have to explain in detail and we have to give
them opportunity for growth we have to show them how important our job how can
impact not only work growing part but also they can impact for the world if we
can show this I think it’s going to be interesting for them but we have to
explain our job most of the people don’t even know still they don’t know water treatment we have to tell right way what
we are doing what how is it working I remember when I was testing when I first
started as a water treatment engineer I was testing when my nephew see the
testing he was just amazed because color is changing in the water it was like a
magician and since then you want to be a water treatment I don’t know if he’s gonna be but this is the things we have
to show positive part of our work we have to show we have to tell right way
our job I think this is the only thing we can take their interest
so if somebody’s listening today and perhaps they’re considering a career in
industrial water treatment what do you want to say to them I think it is one of the best job you
can have because as they’re going to customer you are always
learning something and when you solve any trouble shooting the satisfaction
you are ahead it is unbelievable it is in the end of today to know you are
doing something right you are doing something it’s effect for your environment and you are doing something
saving some energy this is really really good things you can have and it is
Lifetime training lifetime a live job it is not a boring job we should
well summer thank you so much I’m not quite done with you yet I’ve got a couple of lightning round questions if
you’re ready why not all right here they go you now have the ability to go back in time and
talk to your former self on your very first day as an industrial water treater
what advice would you give yourself enjoy it I enjoy it don’t make stress
um before going the size read everything as
much as you can do and be patient well speaking of reading what are the last
few books that you’ve read I read for that reach that Robert Kawasaki is that
him yes I like it I like ikinagi and my favorite Atomic habits Atomic habit I
really like that book too sometimes I I am not that good reader but I’m good
listener these days I am just listening all the books do you use Audible a lot a lot yes I am
I love audible a friend of mine about 10 years ago turned me on to Audible and
they’re actually a sponsor of this podcast so a lot of people I see it awt say thank you for turning me on to
audible I can read again I can do something while I’m driving instead of just yelling at people that are cutting me off that’s true I’m the same I love
it I really love it when they make a movie about simra who do you want playing you I
Clark the lady from Game of Thrones because I like her smile I I when I get
so angry I smile when I get so frustrated I smile and it’s making me
relax I believe and I think I prefer her it’s a great trait to have I’m sure she
would welcome the part my last question for you uh if you had the ability to talk to anybody throughout history who
to be with and why uh I think definitely Jefferson Thomas Jefferson
I read his biography autobiography couple years ago
uh I really literally just wow he is a
problem solver he is he is the guy he is not focused on the problem he just focus
on the solution and I really would love to I wish I could met him and I would
really wanted to understand his mindset it was one of the impressive uh audiobook I listened so far well simra
thank you for coming on the scaling up H2O podcast and just sharing your
passion about how much you love the industrial water treatment industry thank you so much this is so much to be
here with you thank you stand up Nation I am so glad I got to
introduce you to simra she amazing she is one of the happiest people I have
ever met about water treatment when she talks about anything in this industry
she just Smiles James McDonald introduced me to simra at the Palm
Springs Convention I think that was five years ago and she was smiling talking
about telling me what she did and she was smiling today as I was interviewing
her I hope you get infected by her smile I know you couldn’t see it the way I saw
it but you can see it in the way that she speaks you can see it in the way that she talks about that industry and I
hope you catch that infection because that is something you do want to test positive for and when we all have an
attitude like that in this industry I think we we are raising the bar in that
industry and that’s one of the things that I’ve always tried to do with the scaling up H2O podcast is to raise the
bar now maybe it’s just a half an inch that we raise that bar but it’s still
higher than it was and then hopefully somebody else comes and they raise the
bar a little bit more I hope you use this podcast as a catalyst to do that I
think together as the scaling up Nation we are continuously making the
industrial water treatment industry better and I am thankful for that hey
here’s some things that you might want to put on your calendar the UN World Summit on groundwater is taking place in
Paris France December 7th and 8th if this is something that you want to learn
more about go to our show events page that’s right we’ve got everything lined
up on events One-Stop shop shop you can see every water treatment event that we
know about maybe you’re on there and you see something we don’t know about well don’t keep it to yourself let us know
about that and we will add that we’re trying to make the scaling up H2O podcast the One-Stop shop that you need
to go to in order to figure out what’s going on in the Water World so we’ll
have information on that Summit and then also the International Water Association
of biofilms is having a conference in Phuket Thailand December 6th and 8th now
both of those organizations have not invited me to speak but I want to let
you know I would love to go to those places that has always been a place both of those places that I’ve wanted to
visit so I don’t know if I’m available those dates but by all means give me a call so we can talk about it I love to
travel I love to to meet new people and something else I love to do is learn and
think about things on water treatment and that’s what our friend James McDonald helps us do every week so
here’s a new thinking on water with James [Music]
welcome to thinking on water with James the segment where we don’t give you the answers we give you the topics and
questions for you to think about drop by drop now let’s get to it
in this week’s episode we’re thinking about other uses for reverse osmosis concentrate or reject
what is the quality of the RO reject is it softened or was anti-scalant used to
protect the RO from scale formation what is the volume of the RL concentrate available
is the RO located close enough to another possible use to make it feasible could the RL concentrate be used in a
cooling tower if so could it provide 100 of the makeup throughout the day or would a secondary
makeup be required what would the quality of that secondary makeup need to be
could the RO concentrate be used as a wash water for a process could the RO concentrate be used as a
water source for a process itself take this week to think about the RO units you may have and if the
concentrate waste stream could become a treasure instead be sure to follow hashtag tow 22 and
hashtag scalingup H2O share your thoughts on each week’s thinking on water I’m James McDonald and I look
forward to learning more from you James thanks for that and as always
thank you for giving all that you do throughout the entire year to the
industrial Water Treatment Community you become a staple here on the scaling up
H2O podcast and so many scaling up Nation members have wanted me to reach
out to you and say thank you for helping raise the bar that we were talking about earlier so in an episode that we’re all
thankful let’s all be thankful for the work that James McDonald does on this
Thanksgiving Nation I am thankful for you I’m thankful that you listen to this
podcast I’m thankful that you give me ideas and all the support that you help
me with on the scaling up H2O podcast I hope you have a great Thanksgiving if
you live in the states if you don’t there’s probably another holiday right around the map that you’re getting ready
to in enjoy so I hope you enjoy that and I’ll be back next Friday with a brand
new episode of scaling up H2O [Music]
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