The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.2
0:12.8
welcome to scaling up the podcast for
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0:14.8
water treatise by water treaters where
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0:17.7
we’re scaling up on knowledge so we
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0:19.8
don’t scale up our systems folks tres
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0:22.9
Blackmore here and I am actually
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0:27.2
recording this introduction at a
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0:29.3
convention just for podcasters I know we
0:27.2
0:31.0
always go to the AWT annual convention
0:29.3
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which we’re going to be talking about in
0:31.0
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a few short minutes but I have actually
0:33.7
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signed up and attended for the last two
0:36.5
0:42.7
days a convention for podcasters folks
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0:44.0
three years ago a heck it was two years
0:42.7
0:47.1
ago I don’t even think I knew what a
0:44.0
0:50.2
podcast was now it’s been almost 18
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0:53.9
months I’ve been hosting scaling up h2o
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0:58.2
and it has been so much fun for me in
0:53.9
1:02.3
fact so much fun I wanted to invest more
0:58.2
1:05.4
of my time and more of my resources so I
1:02.3
1:09.3
could learn how to do this show better
1:05.4
1:12.9
for you this scaling up nation and I’m
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1:16.6
learning so much here in fact I have
1:12.9
1:18.8
been taking so many notes I don’t know
1:16.6
1:21.4
how I’m gonna organize everything so I
1:18.8
1:23.7
can start creating some action items to
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get these items to you I’ve started
1:23.7
1:28.7
doing that and I’ve listed out the top
1:26.2
1:31.9
five things that I want to do and it’s
1:28.7
1:35.9
my hope that you see in upcoming
1:31.9
1:40.2
episodes that I am bringing more concise
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1:43.2
content to you in a way that allows you
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1:46.1
to consume it in a much easier way and
1:43.2
1:50.0
I’m looking for things to do on my
1:46.1
1:53.8
website to allow us all to connect as a
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1:56.4
community that much easier so among
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1:58.2
those I’m gonna try to organize my show
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2:01.6
notes a little bit better folks there is
1:58.2
2:05.2
no secret about it I knew nothing about
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2:08.2
podcasting when I started this in April
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2:11.3
of last year and everything that I have
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2:14.1
learned has been trial-by-fire
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2:15.9
but you guys have been great you’ve been
2:14.1
2:18.3
very patient with me as I’ve been
2:15.9
2:21.0
experimenting with this platform and I
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2:23.1
got to tell you I really enjoy
2:21.0
2:25.2
bringing it to you I told you a couple
2:23.1
2:27.5
things that we’re gonna start doing many
2:25.2
2:30.3
of you have told me how much you
2:27.5
2:33.4
appreciate me bringing products that I
2:30.3
2:35.9
use in my life to you so they can help
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2:39.1
you in your life but they’re a little
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2:42.1
difficult to find on our show notes page
2:39.1
2:45.7
so we’re gonna create a products page so
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2:49.0
you can very easily find the resources
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2:52.0
that we mention on the show so you can
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2:53.8
then find those and use those also and
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2:57.1
this is one of the coolest things that I
2:53.8
3:00.4
am really excited about as you know I
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3:03.5
answer questions on my show and I try to
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3:04.8
keep the listeners anonymous well some
3:03.5
3:06.8
of you have reached out to me and said
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3:09.5
hey I don’t want to be anonymous I want
3:06.8
3:12.1
to hear my name on scaling-up
3:09.5
3:14.2
so I’ve heard you and I’m gonna give you
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3:15.7
the option now if you want me to read
3:14.2
3:17.9
your name if you don’t want me to read
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3:22.0
your name but I’m gonna go one step
3:17.9
3:26.2
further I’ve actually created a space on
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3:29.8
scaling up h2o comm where you can click
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3:33.7
on the right hand side of the page and
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3:37.3
you can record a message that comes
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3:42.0
directly to me and my team of your
3:37.3
3:46.5
question and I will play you asking your
3:42.0
3:47.5
question right on the air so how cool is
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3:50.1
that
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3:53.8
so that is live now we are doing that
3:50.1
3:56.5
right this second so go to scaling up
3:53.8
3:59.7
h2o comm and you can record your voice
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4:01.9
and hear your question on the air I’ve
3:59.7
4:04.0
actually got to ask about that for you
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in a couple of minutes but I want to
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talk about a couple of things first one
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4:10.6
of the last things I want to mention
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4:14.0
about this podcast convention by the way
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4:17.6
it’s called podcast movement is it’s all
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4:21.0
about the connection with the audience
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4:23.5
every single presentation that I’ve been
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4:26.1
to it they’ve been talking about you
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4:28.3
have to give your audience a place to
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4:30.9
connect and folks that’s the reason I
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4:32.8
started this show that’s the reason I’m
4:30.9
4:34.3
trying to get some more materials out
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4:36.5
for you so
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we don’t feel like we’re alone I know
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4:41.7
you’re listening to me in your car
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4:44.7
driving from account to account some of
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4:47.4
us don’t even go into our home offices
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4:50.4
to see other water treaters on a regular
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basis and we feel extremely lonely out
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4:53.5
there
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4:56.1
well now we’re all part of the
4:53.5
4:59.1
scaling-up nation and we have a
4:56.1
5:02.0
community where we can communicate and
4:59.1
5:06.4
understand each other and the issues
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5:09.2
that we face each and every day I just
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5:11.3
created a platform you folks out there
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5:14.1
are the ones that have created the
5:11.3
5:16.3
community and I want to make sure that I
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5:19.7
give opportunities for the scaling-up
5:16.3
5:22.0
nation to continue to work with each
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5:24.0
other so I’ve got some ideas that I’m
5:22.0
5:26.5
going to try to put into action over the
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5:28.4
next couple of months so be listening
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5:29.4
for that but the number one thing that
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5:32.6
they mentioned during these
5:29.4
5:35.0
presentations is to have a community
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5:37.7
where people want to tell other people
5:35.0
5:40.9
about the community I had nothing to do
5:37.7
5:43.3
with that part that was all you and the
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5:46.2
reason so many water treaters are
5:43.3
5:48.6
listening to scaling up is because of
5:46.2
5:51.6
the fine folks out there in the scanning
5:48.6
5:53.7
up nation and yes that’s you you have
5:51.6
5:57.2
gone out and you’ve told other people
5:53.7
6:00.9
about this show and you have been the
5:57.2
6:03.3
Evangelist for scaling up and my ratings
6:00.9
6:05.6
show that and that is because all the
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hard work that you do and you continue
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to do and I want to thank you for it
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6:14.1
it’s very exciting when I see my ratings
6:10.7
6:16.2
go up very exciting when I get notes or
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6:18.6
emails from the fine folks and the
6:16.2
6:21.8
scaling up nation saying I just received
6:18.6
6:25.1
my CWT or I just tried something new
6:21.8
6:28.5
that you mentioned on the show whatever
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6:31.2
it was I love hearing stuff like that
6:28.5
6:34.5
and I love the fact that we’re all not
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6:38.0
alone we are all now part of the scaling
6:34.5
6:41.5
up nation well we are as far as I know
6:38.0
6:44.9
the only water treatment podcast out
6:41.5
6:46.9
there and in the theme of water
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6:47.7
treatment we actually have a holiday
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6:50.6
coming up
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6:54.2
now James McDonald CWT friend of the
6:50.6
6:58.0
show longtime scaling-up nation member
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7:01.8
he actually has gone out and created a
6:58.0
7:06.0
holiday for us water treatment people it
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7:10.2
is industrial water week and it is
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7:13.2
October 1st through 5th we have our own
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7:15.9
holiday how cool is that and how awesome
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7:18.7
is James McDonald for making that happen
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so for 5 days we’re going to be
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7:25.3
celebrating industrial water week so
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7:29.0
Monday is pretreatment Tuesday is
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7:33.2
boilers Wednesday is cooling Thursday is
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7:35.8
wastewater and Friday is careers now if
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7:37.8
you want to find out more about this
7:35.8
7:40.8
I’ve created a link that goes directly
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7:46.8
to the industrial Water Week website if
7:40.8
7:51.7
scaling-up h2o comm /i ww that’s scaling
7:46.8
7:56.0
up h2o comm /i ww that’s industrial
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7:58.3
water week and in preparation for this I
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8:00.0
want to have James McDonald back on the
7:58.3
8:03.6
show where we’re gonna talk about that
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8:08.4
and I thought how cool would it be if I
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8:11.4
did a mini episode each and every day
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8:14.8
surrounding the topic of whatever day
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8:16.7
were on so for example on Mondays we’ll
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8:18.6
talk about pretreatment on Tuesdays
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8:20.4
we’ll talk about boilers on Wednesday
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8:23.1
we’ll talk about cooling towers and
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8:26.2
cooling systems on Thursdays we’ll talk
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8:29.2
about wastewater and then on the fifth
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8:33.3
which is Friday we will talk about
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8:36.0
careers now here’s the ask that I have
8:33.3
8:40.3
for the scaling up nation I would love
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8:42.3
for you to send me your topic specific
8:40.3
8:44.6
questions on what I just mentioned
8:42.3
8:47.9
boilers cooling towers pretreatments
8:44.6
8:50.8
waste waters and career but I thought it
8:47.9
8:54.6
would be so cool if you could hear your
8:50.8
8:57.6
own voice on scaling up so my ask is for
8:54.6
9:01.8
you to go to scaling up h2o comm and
8:57.6
9:05.1
click record voicemail and actually send
9:01.8
9:08.4
me your question with your voice I will
9:05.1
9:11.2
play you asking your question on the air
9:08.4
9:15.1
and then either I or an industry expert
9:11.2
9:19.9
in that area will answer your question
9:15.1
9:22.7
so help me make these five shows that I
9:19.9
9:24.8
really want to make and deliver that
9:22.7
9:27.8
content to you that I know you want to
9:24.8
9:32.0
consume by going to scaling up h2o comm
9:27.8
9:34.6
and recording your questions there well
9:32.0
9:37.3
before we even make it to industrial
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9:41.1
water week which again is October 1st
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9:43.6
through 5th we have the association of
9:41.1
9:46.7
Water Technologies annual convention
9:43.6
9:51.1
coming up in Orlando Florida September
9:46.7
9:53.2
26 through 29th as you all know out
9:51.1
9:56.8
there in the scaling-up nation this is
9:53.2
10:00.5
the one-stop-shop for us to speak with
9:56.8
10:02.6
every vendor just about that we will
10:00.5
10:05.5
ever need in the water treatment
10:02.6
10:09.0
industry of course the AWT does a great
10:05.5
10:12.3
job of having presentations there that
10:09.0
10:16.0
build us as water treaters and allow us
10:12.3
10:18.7
to be recharged and want to go back and
10:16.0
10:21.2
try new things and I’m happy to say that
10:18.7
10:24.2
I am actually presenting on two
10:21.2
10:25.7
different papers at the convention this
10:24.2
10:27.4
year so I’ll give you some more
10:25.7
10:30.3
information about that actually I’m kind
10:27.4
10:32.6
of moderating one and then the second
10:30.3
10:35.6
one I’ve done some trials and I’ll tell
10:32.6
10:38.3
you a little bit more about that as that
10:35.6
10:41.3
date comes up so I sure hope that you
10:38.3
10:43.9
can join us I would love to see you and
10:41.3
10:46.3
I’m going to be doing some things to
10:43.9
10:48.6
allow the scaling-up nation to connect
10:46.3
10:51.2
while we’re there and it’s my hope that
10:48.6
10:54.4
we could all come together and help each
10:51.2
10:57.6
other network and make the most out of
10:54.4
11:01.1
the 2018 convention so to learn more
10:57.6
11:04.2
about a WTS 2018 convention in Orlando
11:01.1
11:10.3
taking place September 26 through 29 go
11:04.2
11:14.6
to scaling up h2o comm /a WT 2018 once
11:10.3
11:16.5
again that’s scaling up h2o comm /a WT
11:14.6
11:19.7
2008
11:16.5
11:21.3
before we get to our guests and I gotta
11:19.7
11:24.1
tell ya I was a little nervous about
11:21.3
11:26.6
talking about products on this show but
11:24.1
11:28.8
the scaling-up nation has been so great
11:26.6
11:32.2
with letting me know that you are
11:28.8
11:34.6
interested in what I use in my life to
11:32.2
11:36.5
make things easier for me and of course
11:34.6
11:39.2
you know we’re always driving around our
11:36.5
11:42.0
cars we don’t have time to read books
11:39.2
11:45.1
but there’s so much information in books
11:42.0
11:48.2
and one of the biggest tools that I use
11:45.1
11:50.0
on a regular basis is audible and you
11:48.2
11:51.8
know that audible has been working with
11:50.0
11:54.9
scaling up for a couple of months now
11:51.8
11:58.3
and offering the scaling up nation one
11:54.9
12:01.6
free month and one free book if you go
11:58.3
12:04.3
to scaling up h2o com forward slash
12:01.6
12:06.8
audible many of you have done this and
12:04.3
12:11.2
many of you have written back to me and
12:06.8
12:13.0
told me how much you love listening in
12:11.2
12:15.2
the car of course when you’re not
12:13.0
12:17.9
listening to scaling up but in between
12:15.2
12:21.2
episodes you’re listening to books that
12:17.9
12:23.4
allow you to do what you do better and
12:21.2
12:26.8
I’m so happy for those emails please
12:23.4
12:29.9
keep those coming now today’s episode is
12:26.8
12:34.2
continuing with what we were talking
12:29.9
12:36.7
about last week so last week we brought
12:34.2
12:39.4
Daniel Perry on good friend of mine
12:36.7
12:42.1
owner of a chick-fil-a restaurant and it
12:39.4
12:45.3
was all about the incredible things that
12:42.1
12:48.7
they do and how they do them but they
12:45.3
12:50.8
were all based around core values now
12:48.7
12:53.2
the cool thing is is the folks out there
12:50.8
12:56.3
you find folks in the scaling-up nation
12:53.2
12:59.7
have come back to me via email and you
12:56.3
13:03.3
want to learn more about developing core
12:59.7
13:06.9
values so I thought let’s go ahead and
13:03.3
13:09.1
stay on that topic of core values and
13:06.9
13:13.3
working with the team and how we develop
13:09.1
13:17.5
all of these things so our guest today
13:13.3
13:20.4
is Rick Packer and Rick Packer works for
13:17.5
13:22.7
a company called the table group now the
13:20.4
13:25.6
table group is Pat Lynch CEO knees
13:22.7
13:28.3
company and Pat is one of my favorite
13:25.6
13:28.9
authors because of the material that he
13:28.3
13:33.1
write
13:28.9
13:34.5
it’s so awesomely well gonna say that is
13:33.1
13:38.2
that that’s not correct English well I
13:34.5
13:42.1
just said it and it allows us to be able
13:38.2
13:46.6
to build our teams better I have used
13:42.1
13:48.6
his books for years one of Pat’s most
13:46.6
13:51.5
famous books is called the five
13:48.6
13:54.4
dysfunctions of a team five dysfunctions
13:51.5
13:57.6
of a team basically it’s a fable about
13:54.4
13:59.3
this team that’s dysfunctional and it
13:57.6
14:02.7
takes you through the process of what
13:59.3
14:05.4
they did to get them to become a
14:02.7
14:07.6
functional team it’s one of my favorite
14:05.4
14:09.6
books it’s one of the things that we
14:07.6
14:11.9
definitely use in my company and when I
14:09.6
14:13.6
consult with other water treatment
14:11.9
14:16.3
companies and we’re working on team
14:13.6
14:19.0
building it’s something that I always
14:16.3
14:20.9
send before I head out to do the
14:19.0
14:22.7
consulting so they can start reading
14:20.9
14:25.2
that and start working with their teams
14:22.7
14:27.8
I hope you enjoy my interview with Rick
14:25.2
14:30.8
Packer Rick another good friend of mine
14:27.8
14:33.2
and Rick goes in and he takes the
14:30.8
14:35.3
material that Pat and his company with
14:33.2
14:38.9
the table group have and he works
14:35.3
14:42.4
one-on-one with teams to make them
14:38.9
14:45.2
function in the best capacity that they
14:42.4
14:48.0
can so enough of me talking about Rick
14:45.2
14:51.0
let’s go ahead and get to my interview
14:48.0
14:53.7
with Rick packer of the table group my
14:51.0
14:56.4
lab partner today is Rick packer of the
14:53.7
14:59.1
table group Rick’s so good to have you
14:56.4
15:01.8
in the studio today in the scaling-up
14:59.1
15:03.3
studio so how are you doing I’m doing
15:01.8
15:06.1
great trace thanks for having me today
15:03.3
15:08.2
absolutely well you are on with the
15:06.1
15:10.9
scaling up nation and everybody out
15:08.2
15:14.4
there in the scaling up nation wants to
15:10.9
15:16.3
know how they can be better at work and
15:14.4
15:17.3
I think that’s a good thing to want to
15:16.3
15:18.1
know because that’s what we’re going to
15:17.3
15:19.6
talk about today
15:18.1
15:21.4
yeah I’m excited to be here with you
15:19.6
15:23.2
this would be great awesome will retell
15:21.4
15:25.1
us a little bit about yourself yeah so I
15:23.2
15:27.3
live here in Atlanta I’ve been rated
15:25.1
15:29.0
Christy for 21 years we have three
15:27.3
15:31.5
daughters my oldest has heading off to
15:29.0
15:33.3
college this fall middle daughter in
15:31.5
15:36.0
high school and a youngest who is in
15:33.3
15:38.4
middle school Christy and I met at the
15:36.0
15:40.2
Ohio State University and
15:38.4
15:42.7
we’re both diehard Buckeyes
15:40.2
15:43.8
professionally I worked at CompuServe in
15:42.7
15:46.3
the early mid 90s
15:43.8
15:48.0
so I CompuServe will get acquired by a
15:46.3
15:52.4
large company like a fortune 20 company
15:48.0
15:55.5
in 97 and I rode that way for quite some
15:52.4
15:57.1
time and then my last six months there I
15:55.5
15:59.4
was kind of getting frustrated with my
15:57.1
16:01.9
role and I started cold calling this
15:59.4
16:03.7
leadership company and that’s how
16:01.9
16:06.8
Christy and I on the family ended up in
16:03.7
16:07.9
Atlanta because my last job there at
16:06.8
16:11.1
that company was in leadership
16:07.9
16:14.0
development and I called this author and
16:11.1
16:15.4
I said I love your stuff I think you’re
16:14.0
16:17.1
missing out on a big opportunity in the
16:15.4
16:19.2
marketplace and I want to work for you
16:17.1
16:21.7
and that’s how we ended up in Atlanta
16:19.2
16:23.5
from whoa hi Oh how about that yeah and
16:21.7
16:25.5
the author you’re talking about is of
16:23.5
16:28.1
course well that was John Maxwell oh
16:25.5
16:30.3
yeah okay so I ended up working for John
16:28.1
16:32.2
for a couple of years and then that’s
16:30.3
16:34.1
where I met Pat Lencioni which is now
16:32.2
16:37.1
the organization that I can solve for
16:34.1
16:39.1
the table group at the table group you
16:37.1
16:41.3
know one of the things that we do is we
16:39.1
16:44.5
you know we consult for executive teams
16:41.3
16:47.1
and CEOs and leaders usually for you
16:44.5
16:48.4
know a year or two but we work with
16:47.1
16:49.8
teams to help them get better and get
16:48.4
16:51.4
rid of dysfunction we’re gonna talk more
16:49.8
16:53.8
about that in a little bit help them
16:51.4
16:57.1
align on strategy so yeah Pat Lencioni
16:53.8
16:58.3
and I met back in 2003 his firm is the
16:57.1
17:00.1
table group and that’s where I do my
16:58.3
17:02.0
consulting so I’ve always been curious
17:00.1
17:04.2
where did the name the table group oh
17:02.0
17:06.5
yeah we get the question all the time so
17:04.2
17:08.6
with all the advances in technology over
17:06.5
17:10.4
the last you know 20 or 30 years we
17:08.6
17:13.0
believe that still the best piece of
17:10.4
17:15.8
equipment in an organization is the
17:13.0
17:17.8
table it’s where people get around to
17:15.8
17:19.2
have real conversations about the real
17:17.8
17:21.0
issues that they’re facing in the
17:19.2
17:22.5
marketplace and this is radio so they
17:21.0
17:25.8
can’t see it but we are around a table
17:22.5
17:28.6
right in our absolutely so I want to ask
17:25.8
17:31.1
this question because we have a mix of
17:28.6
17:33.7
people that listen to this show we have
17:31.1
17:36.2
business owners and we have people that
17:33.7
17:38.0
run kind of their own businesses within
17:36.2
17:42.4
a business because they’re out taking
17:38.0
17:46.1
care of clients so if I am listening and
17:42.4
17:48.8
I don’t run my own business why do I
17:46.1
17:50.3
need to keep listening yeah so I mean if
17:48.8
17:52.8
I think about
17:50.3
17:55.3
the 11 or so books that Pat has
17:52.8
17:57.1
published think about this the most
17:55.3
17:59.4
important organization in our lives is
17:57.1
18:01.0
our families and we’ve had clients over
17:59.4
18:03.4
the years tell us you know that book
18:01.0
18:04.9
that you guys you know talk about and
18:03.4
18:07.2
all your models come from you can apply
18:04.9
18:08.4
that to the family so you know the team
18:07.2
18:09.9
book that we’ll talk about here in a
18:08.4
18:11.5
little bit people have come back to us
18:09.9
18:15.4
and say we can apply that within our
18:11.5
18:17.0
family so over a number of years we got
18:15.4
18:19.1
this feedback that people were applying
18:17.0
18:20.9
to their families so Pat wrote a book
18:19.1
18:23.0
called the three big questions of the
18:20.9
18:24.9
frantic family so again if you think
18:23.0
18:27.1
about different organizations and the
18:24.9
18:29.0
most important one we believe is the
18:27.1
18:30.9
family this stuff is very you know
18:29.0
18:32.8
applicable there you know beyond the
18:30.9
18:34.7
family though I mean think about the
18:32.8
18:37.0
different types of organizations people
18:34.7
18:38.9
belong to outside of work so whether
18:37.0
18:40.2
it’s PTA whether you coach a little
18:38.9
18:41.2
league team whether it’s volunteer
18:40.2
18:42.9
groups at church
18:41.2
18:44.5
you’re an environment that requires
18:42.9
18:47.3
leadership and you’re probably either
18:44.5
18:49.3
leading a team or on a team but then
18:47.3
18:51.2
lastly kind of back at work if you’re
18:49.3
18:52.6
not the CEO maybe you’re a leader if
18:51.2
18:54.5
you’re not a leader you’re probably a
18:52.6
18:56.7
member of a team and in fact Pat’s
18:54.5
18:59.3
latest book is called the ideal team
18:56.7
19:01.1
player mm-hmm so again whether you own
18:59.3
19:03.0
your own company whether you’re a CEO a
19:01.1
19:04.5
lot of the different models and books
19:03.0
19:06.7
that wind up talking about today you can
19:04.5
19:08.0
apply at home and family in the
19:06.7
19:10.8
community or in your work environment
19:08.0
19:12.9
great reason to keep listening so let’s
19:10.8
19:14.8
talk about some of the books that you
19:12.9
19:16.4
mentioned and and the latest book and I
19:14.8
19:19.4
think it’s the latest book the advantage
19:16.4
19:21.0
and and when I read the advantage and
19:19.4
19:22.7
he’s saying no that’s not the latest
19:21.0
19:24.5
book but all my notes it says it’s the
19:22.7
19:27.5
advantage so we’re going to go with it
19:24.5
19:29.8
so we’ll talk about the latest book so
19:27.5
19:33.0
so stay tuned for that but with the
19:29.8
19:36.4
advantage when I read that you know it’s
19:33.0
19:39.1
a great analysis of all the other books
19:36.4
19:41.0
many of the other books that I read that
19:39.1
19:42.5
he had written before so let’s talk a
19:41.0
19:44.8
little bit about that yeah sure so it’s
19:42.5
19:46.1
passed only non fable book and we’ll
19:44.8
19:47.9
talk more about the fables I think here
19:46.1
19:50.5
in a few minutes but it combines a whole
19:47.9
19:52.7
bunch of different frameworks from five
19:50.5
19:54.8
of Pat’s previous books and it really
19:52.7
19:56.1
just outlines the entire consulting
19:54.8
19:58.2
process that we use with clients
19:56.1
19:59.5
ourselves so the five different books
19:58.2
20:01.5
that are kind of combined in the
19:59.5
20:03.2
advantage are the five dysfunctions of a
20:01.5
20:05.5
team death by me
20:03.2
20:08.4
very interesting title and we can talk
20:05.5
20:11.2
more about silos politics and turf wars
20:08.4
20:14.4
before obsessions of an executive and
20:11.2
20:16.7
the five temptations of a CEO so you
20:14.4
20:19.6
take all those books and combine them
20:16.7
20:21.0
into one overall model that are you know
20:19.6
20:23.2
the people who’ve read it ever spotted
20:21.0
20:26.1
so positively they say this is the book
20:23.2
20:28.4
that I need to use to run my business to
20:26.1
20:30.1
lead my team to lead my department or to
20:28.4
20:32.1
be a good great team member and we were
20:30.1
20:34.8
talking a little bit before we started
20:32.1
20:36.4
this show and you mentioned that when
20:34.8
20:38.4
you were trying to figure out writing
20:36.4
20:40.3
this book you were unclear if that was
20:38.4
20:42.6
going to take people away from reading
20:40.3
20:44.2
the original books or how that was going
20:42.6
20:45.7
to go and you shared something very
20:44.2
20:47.0
interesting with me do you mind sharing
20:45.7
20:48.4
that with the audience yeah sure I just
20:47.0
20:50.1
remember talking with Pat and all the
20:48.4
20:51.6
rest of the folks at the table group and
20:50.1
20:53.0
because all of his books up to that
20:51.6
20:54.5
point we’re fables and we were just
20:53.0
20:55.8
debating Oh should the advantage be a
20:54.5
20:57.5
fable or should it be a traditional
20:55.8
20:59.5
business book and of course we went down
20:57.5
21:01.0
the route of a traditional business book
20:59.5
21:03.0
and the response has been positive and
21:01.0
21:05.1
then of course what ends up happening is
21:03.0
21:05.9
people will read the advantage and then
21:05.1
21:08.6
they’ll want to get more information
21:05.9
21:10.3
let’s say on the five dysfunctions of a
21:08.6
21:12.2
team or death by meeting and then we’ll
21:10.3
21:14.0
go back and pick up those fables if you
21:12.2
21:16.2
will so that’s just been incredible to
21:14.0
21:17.7
see from our clients or from the people
21:16.2
21:19.7
who read our book just how they’ve
21:17.7
21:21.4
responded to the different formats fable
21:19.7
21:23.3
or traditional business book we
21:21.4
21:25.4
mentioned the word fable several times
21:23.3
21:29.1
and of course that is the the
21:25.4
21:31.3
cornerstone of how Pat Lencioni conveys
21:29.1
21:34.0
his message I’ll tell you a little bit
21:31.3
21:37.2
about my story but before we do what
21:34.0
21:39.3
exactly is a business fable so we say
21:37.2
21:41.7
that truth is stranger than fiction and
21:39.3
21:43.8
you know if if we would put into a
21:41.7
21:45.4
traditional business book the stories
21:43.8
21:47.1
and the examples that we see from the
21:45.4
21:48.6
clients we work with people wouldn’t
21:47.1
21:51.1
believe it because it’s we deal with
21:48.6
21:52.7
some difficult circumstances so we think
21:51.1
21:55.1
that it really helps carry the story
21:52.7
21:57.5
forward and keeps readers engaged
21:55.1
21:59.0
because one of the most common things
21:57.5
22:01.6
that we hear back from people operating
21:59.0
22:03.7
the book is I see myself I see my
22:01.6
22:06.0
colleagues I see my boss I see my team
22:03.7
22:08.2
members in the story line of those books
22:06.0
22:11.0
because it just it feels so real for
22:08.2
22:13.3
them and it’s just been very successful
22:11.0
22:15.1
for Pat plus when Pat was younger I
22:13.3
22:16.3
think in his college years he was
22:15.1
22:18.7
playing around with some
22:16.3
22:20.1
new screen writing some playwrights and
22:18.7
22:22.1
some other things like that so it’s very
22:20.1
22:24.5
natural for him as a creative and very
22:22.1
22:28.3
curious type person how about that well
22:24.5
22:30.8
ice I have seen the reason for his
22:28.3
22:32.7
madness why he does this fable I got to
22:30.8
22:34.3
tell you I am NOT a fan of the business
22:32.7
22:36.6
fable I don’t want to learn about
22:34.3
22:37.9
fictitious people that don’t exist and
22:36.6
22:40.4
they’re going through this fictitious
22:37.9
22:42.5
story tell me what I need to do and
22:40.4
22:44.0
apply it and later a friend of mine Jace
22:42.5
22:45.7
Brooks said well trace just go to the
22:44.0
22:48.4
very last chapter and you can get that
22:45.7
22:52.5
but I know that at the time but a couple
22:48.4
22:54.2
of years ago as a team we read the five
22:52.5
22:56.7
dysfunctions of a team and I think
22:54.2
22:58.5
that’s the best book that he is ever
22:56.7
23:01.4
written I think it’s one of the best
22:58.5
23:04.3
business books ever written because if
23:01.4
23:06.7
you can’t establish those five items
23:04.3
23:07.8
forget what your plans are and I know
23:06.7
23:09.6
we’re going to talk about that a little
23:07.8
23:11.9
bit later but if you can’t get those
23:09.6
23:13.6
five items right you don’t have a prayer
23:11.9
23:15.4
of everybody rolling in the right
23:13.6
23:17.8
direction and you have a whole bunch of
23:15.4
23:22.3
things going on in between there but by
23:17.8
23:25.1
having that in the fable format my team
23:22.3
23:27.2
who did not want to read a business book
23:25.1
23:28.5
the people on there there was like oh no
23:27.2
23:30.1
we don’t want to read a business book
23:28.5
23:32.8
they actually got into the story and
23:30.1
23:35.3
because they enjoyed the story they
23:32.8
23:37.9
learned the message that Pat was writing
23:35.3
23:41.6
about so I have seen the light I
23:37.9
23:42.9
understand why he does what he does yeah
23:41.6
23:44.9
it’s very compelling for the reader
23:42.9
23:46.3
because to your exact point there are
23:44.9
23:47.6
some people in our organization who love
23:46.3
23:49.0
the traditional business book for the
23:47.6
23:51.1
exact reasons that you just mentioned
23:49.0
23:53.6
and others who need that storyline to
23:51.1
23:55.1
draw them into the reason that it need
23:53.6
23:57.5
to learn it and then apply it back in
23:55.1
24:00.3
the workplace so obviously it’s not the
23:57.5
24:03.5
latest book but it’s one of the later so
24:00.3
24:06.5
the advantage let me ask you what is the
24:03.5
24:08.0
advantage yeah so what Pat did in that
24:06.5
24:10.6
book and what we do in our consulting
24:08.0
24:11.4
practice is we want to help clients do
24:10.6
24:13.9
several things
24:11.4
24:16.1
one is we’re going to break down in very
24:13.9
24:18.6
simple terms the two requirements for
24:16.1
24:21.0
success and those are we have to be
24:18.6
24:23.3
smart and the second one is you have to
24:21.0
24:24.7
be healthy but what most business
24:23.3
24:26.8
leaders the business people pay
24:24.7
24:29.5
attention to is just the smart side of
24:26.8
24:31.2
the equation which really is about men
24:29.5
24:32.9
tricks and numbers and driving growth
24:31.2
24:35.2
and if you think about a lot of people’s
24:32.9
24:37.0
backgrounds or education even
24:35.2
24:39.5
conferences people attend it’s all about
24:37.0
24:41.4
the decision sciences of what that
24:39.5
24:43.5
school or business or conference is all
24:41.4
24:46.0
about and a lot of leaders do some have
24:43.5
24:47.5
a muscle memory to consider or look at
24:46.0
24:49.5
the other half of the equation and that
24:47.5
24:51.2
is are we healthy things like minimal
24:49.5
24:52.7
politics high levels of trust high
24:51.2
24:55.0
levels of clarity low levels of
24:52.7
24:57.4
confusion low levels of politics high
24:55.0
24:59.1
productivity high morale low turnover
24:57.4
25:01.0
and when you when you think of the
24:59.1
25:02.2
simplicity between oh yeah there are
25:01.0
25:03.4
smart components that run an
25:02.2
25:05.0
organization there are healthy
25:03.4
25:07.5
components we just don’t know how to
25:05.0
25:09.8
quantify the healthy stuff so we don’t
25:07.5
25:11.8
pay attention to it but a classic
25:09.8
25:13.0
example is something very simple so
25:11.8
25:15.2
let’s say you’re having a team meeting
25:13.0
25:16.7
in this budget season and you walk into
25:15.2
25:17.8
the room you pass out a spreadsheet and
25:16.7
25:20.3
we’re all looking at you know next
25:17.8
25:21.8
year’s budget well the conversation
25:20.3
25:23.2
isn’t all that engaging you see what the
25:21.8
25:24.7
numbers you know what they are but then
25:23.2
25:26.7
after the meeting a team member pulls
25:24.7
25:28.3
another colleague aside and says hey I
25:26.7
25:30.9
did not want to say this in the meeting
25:28.3
25:34.0
but in right there there’s the issue
25:30.9
25:36.3
meaning this the meeting was a very
25:34.0
25:37.8
smart left-brain linear conversation on
25:36.3
25:39.1
the financials and the reality of what
25:37.8
25:41.7
next year’s budget gonna look like
25:39.1
25:43.1
however the undercurrent was that was an
25:41.7
25:45.1
unhealthy meeting because people weren’t
25:43.1
25:47.4
comfortable to speak up in the meeting
25:45.1
25:49.0
itself about the realities of what
25:47.4
25:50.5
they’re dealing with so what we think
25:49.0
25:52.0
the combination of smart and healthy is
25:50.5
25:55.4
what’s required for organization to be
25:52.0
25:56.6
successful so therefore we have four
25:55.4
25:58.1
disciplines of a healthy organization
25:56.6
26:01.0
now let’s go through them very very
25:58.1
26:02.6
quickly okay the first one is to build a
26:01.0
26:03.7
maintain a cohesive leadership team and
26:02.6
26:05.2
when we come back and talk about the
26:03.7
26:07.2
five dysfunctions in a couple of moments
26:05.2
26:09.0
I’ll break that down for you in like you
26:07.2
26:10.9
know as much detail as you want but the
26:09.0
26:13.1
first thing is let’s build a maintain a
26:10.9
26:15.3
cohesive leadership team the second one
26:13.1
26:17.9
is to create clarity with this caveat
26:15.3
26:20.1
the leadership team of the organization
26:17.9
26:22.9
needs to create clarity together as a
26:20.1
26:25.6
team not in isolation not where the CEO
26:22.9
26:27.3
or a leader on the team comes down from
26:25.6
26:29.1
the mountaintop and says I figured out
26:27.3
26:31.3
an extra strategy here’s our goals and
26:29.1
26:32.6
objectives that’s what we’re doing the
26:31.3
26:34.7
key thing here is that we’re building on
26:32.6
26:36.7
the first discipline of gonna maintain a
26:34.7
26:38.6
cohesive leadership team we’re now the
26:36.7
26:41.1
leadership team has to create clarity
26:38.6
26:42.6
together and we have six critical
26:41.1
26:44.1
questions that we ask
26:42.6
26:46.1
our clients to walk through that’s in
26:44.1
26:48.0
the advantage from the clarity stuff so
26:46.1
26:49.7
the first question is why does the
26:48.0
26:51.5
organization exist beyond making money
26:49.7
26:53.2
kind of a core purpose statement the
26:51.5
26:55.1
second one is how are we going to behave
26:53.2
26:57.4
where we help a client define what are
26:55.1
26:59.9
their core values the third one is what
26:57.4
27:01.2
do we do so when we say what do we do
26:59.9
27:03.0
when we ask that question this isn’t
27:01.2
27:05.1
your you know a typical long drawn-out
27:03.0
27:07.1
mission statement that has everything
27:05.1
27:08.8
all road under it we just want the
27:07.1
27:11.1
client whether they read the advantage
27:08.8
27:13.1
or work with us that one simple
27:11.1
27:15.8
statement with no marketing adjectives
27:13.1
27:17.8
no best-of-breed no world class nonsense
27:15.8
27:19.7
just what do we do for whom when and
27:17.8
27:21.9
where and having the simplicity of that
27:19.7
27:23.5
written down really allows dis not the
27:21.9
27:25.5
leadership team but the rest the
27:23.5
27:26.6
organization to fully understand this is
27:25.5
27:28.5
the business that we’re in and the
27:26.6
27:30.9
business were not in that’s empowering
27:28.5
27:33.0
it is when you get that right but we
27:30.9
27:34.3
don’t to be glossy or marketing and some
27:33.0
27:35.8
of these statements you may not ever
27:34.3
27:38.4
publish you may not ever put on a
27:35.8
27:40.7
website it’s really for the people
27:38.4
27:42.0
inside the organization to have clarity
27:40.7
27:44.5
to help them make a really good decision
27:42.0
27:47.3
great point so real quick the fourth one
27:44.5
27:49.1
is strategic anchors meaning when we are
27:47.3
27:50.9
about to make a strategic decision as an
27:49.1
27:52.5
organization one of the couple of things
27:50.9
27:54.6
that we use as filters and we’re about
27:52.5
27:56.3
to make those decisions and if we have
27:54.6
27:58.5
more time I go into detail there our
27:56.3
28:01.5
fifth question is really critical and
27:58.5
28:03.7
it’s what’s most important right now
28:01.5
28:06.1
or said differently what’s the single
28:03.7
28:07.9
most important thing that we as an
28:06.1
28:09.4
organization need to focus on for the
28:07.9
28:11.3
next six to twelve months and what’s key
28:09.4
28:13.6
to that question which makes that
28:11.3
28:15.7
conversation both fun and interesting
28:13.6
28:18.2
and frustrating is the word single
28:15.7
28:20.2
what’s the single most important thing
28:18.2
28:21.7
that we need to focus on for the next
28:20.2
28:23.8
six to twelve months that’s a very
28:21.7
28:26.7
dynamic conversation and then the final
28:23.8
28:29.2
six question unruhe clarity is roles and
28:26.7
28:30.9
responsibilities who does what who on
28:29.2
28:32.3
the leadership team or who want any team
28:30.9
28:34.6
in the organization just what are they
28:32.3
28:36.2
responsible for and we have clarity
28:34.6
28:38.3
amongst the team as to what our
28:36.2
28:40.0
colleagues are responsible for well let
28:38.3
28:41.7
me ask so these are great questions
28:40.0
28:44.1
these are very thought-provoking
28:41.7
28:47.5
questions these are very deep questions
28:44.1
28:49.4
so when you work with clients that have
28:47.5
28:51.7
never thought in this way
28:49.4
28:53.9
how do you get everybody one to feel
28:51.7
28:55.7
safe around the table so they can talk
28:53.9
28:59.1
about this stuff and then what’s the
28:55.7
29:00.6
benefit of before and after when all
28:59.1
29:02.7
these questions are figured out yeah so
29:00.6
29:04.3
great question so let’s bounce up a
29:02.7
29:06.9
couple layers back to smart and healthy
29:04.3
29:09.6
for a moment so when clients ask us to
29:06.9
29:10.4
come in and do just plain old strategic
29:09.6
29:12.2
planning for them
29:10.4
29:14.7
the answer is we could do that but why
29:12.2
29:16.4
because if the final outcome of just a
29:14.7
29:18.8
strategic planning conversation is to
29:16.4
29:21.0
get answers to questions like these on a
29:18.8
29:22.7
piece of paper if the team that came up
29:21.0
29:24.0
with that is not tight and cohesive to
29:22.7
29:26.1
begin with we know they’re gonna have
29:24.0
29:27.1
execution issues down the road so it’s
29:26.1
29:28.6
the combination of both smart and
29:27.1
29:30.8
healthy that really gets after this
29:28.6
29:33.4
likewise which is kind of the opposite
29:30.8
29:34.7
of your question if an organization asks
29:33.4
29:37.3
us to come in and help them do
29:34.7
29:39.3
team-building like we could do that but
29:37.3
29:41.2
why because if we go outside and do
29:39.3
29:43.5
trust Falls and ropes courses or a
29:41.2
29:44.9
cooking class together what happens is
29:43.5
29:46.9
we come back into work the following day
29:44.9
29:48.9
and we’re the same as when we left
29:46.9
29:51.3
because we did not root the
29:48.9
29:53.0
conversations into the real reason why
29:51.3
29:54.8
the team existed and that’s to
29:53.0
29:56.1
accomplish something what’s the result
29:54.8
29:58.2
we’re shooting for what’s the goals the
29:56.1
30:00.0
objectives and the strategies so that’s
29:58.2
30:01.7
why when a team has to go through some
30:00.0
30:03.8
strategic planning stuff or get answers
30:01.7
30:06.1
to questions like this down on paper
30:03.8
30:08.0
it’s important that the team is working
30:06.1
30:09.4
on becoming more cohesive and it’s also
30:08.0
30:11.1
important when you do team-building that
30:09.4
30:12.6
you’ve been real conversations as to
30:11.1
30:14.4
what you’re trying to strive for in
30:12.6
30:16.7
those types of conversations now on the
30:14.4
30:18.8
backend so what really is key about the
30:16.7
30:20.3
execution of this when you install these
30:18.8
30:21.9
clarity questions really gets into the
30:20.3
30:23.9
third and fourth discipline of this more
30:21.9
30:25.6
disciplines model okay so the third one
30:23.9
30:27.7
is to over communicate clarity
30:25.6
30:29.5
so once the leadership team or again any
30:27.7
30:31.4
departmental team comes up with the type
30:29.5
30:33.5
of clarity that they are responsible for
30:31.4
30:35.7
now they have to cascade the heck out of
30:33.5
30:37.0
this and we say over and over and over
30:35.7
30:37.3
and over and over and over and over
30:37.0
30:39.1
again
30:37.3
30:41.4
seven times there’s magic in the number
30:39.1
30:42.5
seven a lot of research suggests that
30:41.4
30:44.7
people need to hear a message
30:42.5
30:46.2
approximately seven times before they
30:44.7
30:48.3
start paying attention to what’s even
30:46.2
30:51.8
being said so we try to coach our
30:48.3
30:54.0
leaders towards is get used to repeating
30:51.8
30:56.4
yourself to the point where you’re tired
30:54.0
30:58.9
of repeating yourself the same exact
30:56.4
31:01.1
message is over and over again and tie
30:58.9
31:01.9
what it is you’re communicating inside
31:01.1
31:04.0
your organization
31:01.9
31:06.7
back to your clarity so let me ask you
31:04.0
31:09.4
about that so if I say the exact same
31:06.7
31:11.2
thing in the exact same way to my people
31:09.4
31:13.5
over and over and over again they’re
31:11.2
31:15.7
gonna stop listing so obviously we make
31:13.5
31:17.4
little differences perhaps we might have
31:15.7
31:19.1
different media we use that’s not what
31:17.4
31:21.5
you’re suggesting absolutely you do have
31:19.1
31:23.2
to get creative but you and I both have
31:21.5
31:25.0
worked with people before both that were
31:23.2
31:27.1
bosses of ours and perhaps subordinates
31:25.0
31:28.6
of ours at some point that they need to
31:27.1
31:30.5
hear what you communicated to them last
31:28.6
31:32.6
week last month last quarter last year
31:30.5
31:34.0
is still as important today as when you
31:32.6
31:35.3
originally communicated it otherwise
31:34.0
31:37.0
they’re thinking well they haven’t
31:35.3
31:38.7
mentioned it in quite some time maybe
31:37.0
31:40.4
this isn’t as important as it used to be
31:38.7
31:41.7
a great point so that’s just something
31:40.4
31:43.2
to keep in mind but yeah you have to be
31:41.7
31:44.9
creative and how you go through so and
31:43.2
31:46.8
perhaps the listeners of the show should
31:44.9
31:48.5
listen to this show seven times because
31:46.8
31:51.1
of course that will help my ratings I
31:48.5
31:52.7
appreciate that all right so what’s
31:51.1
31:54.6
number four yeah the fourth one real
31:52.7
31:56.0
quick is just reinforced clarity through
31:54.6
31:57.7
human systems so basically if you think
31:56.0
31:59.2
about creating and maintaining a
31:57.7
32:00.5
cohesive leadership team and then you’re
31:59.2
32:02.7
creating clarity and then you’re
32:00.5
32:04.9
cascading clarity ultimately at the end
32:02.7
32:07.6
of the day it’s like how is this gonna
32:04.9
32:09.7
be integrated into our organization and
32:07.6
32:11.5
we just call it human systems meaning if
32:09.7
32:13.9
you answer the second question on core
32:11.5
32:16.4
values have you now embedded that into
32:13.9
32:18.2
your hiring process your firing process
32:16.4
32:21.2
and your recognizing and rewarding
32:18.2
32:23.2
process or is it just a piece of clarity
32:21.2
32:24.8
that you put on paper so if a lot of the
32:23.2
32:28.0
decisions that the leadership team are
32:24.8
32:29.8
making if that doesn’t turn itself into
32:28.0
32:31.5
some systems and processes in the
32:29.8
32:33.2
organization then we just had great
32:31.5
32:34.8
conversations that we don’t embed into
32:33.2
32:37.0
the organization but what’s key on this
32:34.8
32:38.7
though is sometimes you can’t over
32:37.0
32:40.8
script it like putting too many
32:38.7
32:42.2
processes inside the organization just
32:40.8
32:43.9
becomes burdensome and now it’s a
32:42.2
32:45.9
bureaucracy so you just have to be
32:43.9
32:48.6
careful as to how much you formalize it
32:45.9
32:50.7
versus it’s still one of those things
32:48.6
32:52.7
that you can edit and you can change and
32:50.7
32:54.2
you adjust as organization grows I will
32:52.7
32:55.8
tell you that’s something that we
32:54.2
32:58.6
struggle with here at Blackmore
32:55.8
33:01.2
Enterprises we do want to have processes
32:58.6
33:03.5
that do exactly what you said but every
33:01.2
33:05.6
time we start writing them is it not
33:03.5
33:07.3
enough or is it too much because I never
33:05.6
33:10.3
want to get to the point where I’m
33:07.3
33:13.0
taking somebody’s ability to make too
33:10.3
33:15.2
for the reason that I hired them because
33:13.0
33:18.2
they’re following a process I want them
33:15.2
33:20.8
to think so is there any magic tool that
33:18.2
33:22.9
you can use to say this is how far you
33:20.8
33:24.2
want to go and the rest you’ve got to
33:22.9
33:25.7
trust your people that you got the right
33:24.2
33:27.7
people there so my advice is that’s
33:25.7
33:29.2
pretty simple it’s this living the
33:27.7
33:31.1
tension of what you just stated meaning
33:29.2
33:32.6
you don’t want to over engineer it but
33:31.1
33:33.4
you also can’t be so big that no one
33:32.6
33:35.7
understands where you’re communicating
33:33.4
33:38.4
and just as a leader the advice is
33:35.7
33:39.9
embrace the tension that both of those
33:38.4
33:42.4
create which causes you and your
33:39.9
33:44.0
leadership team to say okay are we over
33:42.4
33:45.6
engineering this are we making our dress
33:44.0
33:47.1
policy here at the workplace way too
33:45.6
33:49.1
complicated and as a fill up twelve
33:47.1
33:51.5
pages of our employee manual and if so
33:49.1
33:53.5
we over engineered this thing so twelve
33:51.5
33:55.1
pages on the jeans to wear for casual
33:53.5
33:57.0
Friday is probably not the best course
33:55.1
33:57.5
are organizations who have done just
33:57.0
33:59.8
that
33:57.5
34:01.4
that’s too much well fair enough well I
33:59.8
34:03.8
can’t help but notice you know of the
34:01.4
34:05.9
four disciplines one deals with making
34:03.8
34:08.8
sure we have a good team and all the
34:05.9
34:10.2
other ones are being about clarity hmm
34:08.8
34:11.6
yeah it is creating clarity over
34:10.2
34:13.2
communicating clarity and then
34:11.6
34:14.3
reinforcing clarity through us so
34:13.2
34:16.3
clarity is pretty important in this
34:14.3
34:17.8
process critic critical but go back to
34:16.3
34:20.0
the original statement I made and that
34:17.8
34:21.9
is the team creating clarity together
34:20.0
34:23.3
that is essential because when we get to
34:21.9
34:24.1
the team model when I’m going because it
34:23.3
34:26.2
is all integrated
34:24.1
34:28.9
people need to have the opportunity to
34:26.2
34:31.5
weigh in to by him weigh in to buy and I
34:28.9
34:34.3
love that and and I can think of
34:31.5
34:36.9
situations where people have told me
34:34.3
34:41.3
Trace you’re going to do this and
34:36.9
34:43.3
because I didn’t have the ability to say
34:41.3
34:46.1
what I thought about it I probably
34:43.3
34:48.0
secretly made it fail so can we talk
34:46.1
34:50.5
about that for a moment why not okay so
34:48.0
34:52.2
I’ll put this in the context in a few
34:50.5
34:53.7
moments when we get through the the team
34:52.2
34:55.3
model is this counseling is this what
34:53.7
34:57.5
we’re doing this or what fine I like
34:55.3
34:59.1
that so when we talk about commitment in
34:57.5
35:01.0
the team environment which is right in
34:59.1
35:02.1
the center of our team model you’ve
35:01.0
35:03.9
already heard me say we need to give
35:02.1
35:07.7
people the opportunity to weigh in to
35:03.9
35:09.4
buy-in and when we do that though one of
35:07.7
35:11.0
the dangers that organizations can get
35:09.4
35:13.3
into is that they want to lead from a
35:11.0
35:15.4
basis of consensus right so is everybody
35:13.3
35:17.6
okay with this is everybody on board is
35:15.4
35:20.1
everybody you agree and if we’re making
35:17.6
35:21.4
decisions on a basis of consensus the
35:20.1
35:22.2
result is going to be a very mediocre
35:21.4
35:24.0
decision
35:22.2
35:25.8
as we’ve waited too long the competition
35:24.0
35:28.0
has passed us up I’m just trying to help
35:25.8
35:29.9
all of you feel good versus it being a
35:28.0
35:31.7
really good decision so let’s kind of
35:29.9
35:35.1
debate something for a moment and that
35:31.7
35:37.1
is if we get to topics at the leadership
35:35.1
35:39.2
level that have risen in the ranks of
35:37.1
35:39.7
the organization that we have to deal
35:39.2
35:41.9
with
35:39.7
35:43.5
I would hope when those topics make it
35:41.9
35:45.6
to the table there’s a natural
35:43.5
35:47.1
disagreement because you’re going to
35:45.6
35:49.2
deal with the most difficult topics in
35:47.1
35:51.2
the organization so if that’s the case
35:49.2
35:52.5
there should be natural disagreement how
35:51.2
35:53.8
are you going to deal with that we want
35:52.5
35:56.1
to talk about that in a moment but I do
35:53.8
35:58.5
know this you need to be okay as a
35:56.1
36:01.3
leadership team walking out of a meeting
35:58.5
36:03.8
being in support of precisely when you
36:01.3
36:06.3
disagree with and that’s the challenge
36:03.8
36:08.3
and the challenge on a team really is
36:06.3
36:10.1
how do we get people to be in support of
36:08.3
36:12.4
when they precisely disagree with and
36:10.1
36:14.1
there’s multiple answers I don’t know
36:12.4
36:15.6
that this is the silver bullet but I see
36:14.1
36:18.3
it work with a lot of our clients and
36:15.6
36:20.9
that is this people need to have the
36:18.3
36:23.8
opportunity to feel like they were heard
36:20.9
36:25.5
as the decision is being made and that
36:23.8
36:27.9
is such an art not so much of a science
36:25.5
36:30.0
but it’s an art that a leader possesses
36:27.9
36:32.7
well they help team members not feel
36:30.0
36:36.7
entertained right not feel manipulated
36:32.7
36:39.6
but a leader can help a follower feel
36:36.7
36:42.0
like they were truly listened to and
36:39.6
36:44.0
their opinion was considered as the
36:42.0
36:45.5
decision was being made and when you can
36:44.0
36:47.4
do that as a leader that is pretty
36:45.5
36:49.0
special because now team members can
36:47.4
36:51.2
walk out of the room supporting it
36:49.0
36:53.4
precisely when they disagree as long as
36:51.2
36:55.6
they felt heard that’s great so all
36:53.4
36:58.5
these things of course are leading to
36:55.6
37:01.0
the five dysfunctions of a team that’s
36:58.5
37:03.1
right the things that don’t work so I
37:01.0
37:05.3
always get confused of how to tell
37:03.1
37:07.2
people about this book because all the
37:05.3
37:08.7
five dysfunctions of team but it doesn’t
37:07.2
37:10.5
really teach you the dysfunctions I
37:08.7
37:12.9
guess it shows you the dysfunctions to
37:10.5
37:15.8
teach you the proper functions so how do
37:12.9
37:17.0
you even explain this so yeah the
37:15.8
37:19.0
original book title I think was
37:17.0
37:21.6
published back in 2002 was called the
37:19.0
37:23.6
five dysfunctions of a team and when Pat
37:21.6
37:25.2
wrote the advantage you know we were at
37:23.6
37:26.9
first of course the book but we also
37:25.2
37:28.6
referred to it as the five behaviors of
37:26.9
37:30.9
a team or the positive way of looking at
37:28.6
37:32.6
it but we kind of use them as terms
37:30.9
37:34.6
changeably but yeah there are five
37:32.6
37:36.1
different components of it and when we
37:34.6
37:37.4
refer to the dysfunctions it really is
37:36.1
37:40.1
how do we overcome those how do we
37:37.4
37:43.0
overcome those dysfunctions and I love
37:40.1
37:44.6
it because you’ve got to do one before
37:43.0
37:46.5
you graduate to the other and you’ve got
37:44.6
37:48.0
to do that one before the next one and
37:46.5
37:51.8
it when you read it
37:48.0
37:54.4
it makes so much sense it’s logical but
37:51.8
37:56.9
yet there’s so many teams that don’t do
37:54.4
37:58.5
it yeah it is so logical and that’s why
37:56.9
38:00.7
I think a lot of paths books it makes so
37:58.5
38:03.5
much sense because it is common sense
38:00.7
38:06.0
you feel these dynamics in the workplace
38:03.5
38:07.7
when you’re working with team members so
38:06.0
38:09.5
the first step really is we have to
38:07.7
38:11.9
build trust on the team but not like
38:09.5
38:13.9
competency based trust where you know
38:11.9
38:15.3
I’ve worked for you or with you long
38:13.9
38:16.7
enough that when I say this I know
38:15.3
38:19.6
you’re gonna respond in a very specific
38:16.7
38:21.2
way it’s more vulnerability based trust
38:19.6
38:24.0
so what that means in the team
38:21.2
38:26.2
environment is I’m being open I’m being
38:24.0
38:28.9
transparent of not covering up I’m not
38:26.2
38:30.6
concealing I have something to say as a
38:28.9
38:33.0
team member and I just put it out there
38:30.6
38:35.8
regardless of who’s in the room we don’t
38:33.0
38:37.4
want hierarchy on a team meaning if the
38:35.8
38:39.2
leaders in the room are not in the room
38:37.4
38:41.8
to change how the conversation goes on a
38:39.2
38:44.1
team we just want someone to feel
38:41.8
38:47.2
comfortable showing up at work and being
38:44.1
38:48.9
the person who they are versus there’s
38:47.2
38:50.0
some sort of facade and they have to be
38:48.9
38:51.7
a different person in the work
38:50.0
38:54.1
environment which is kind of changes how
38:51.7
38:56.5
they engage with people but yours kind
38:54.1
38:59.8
of a subtlety if you think about being
38:56.5
39:01.2
transparent and being vulnerable just
38:59.8
39:02.8
because they’re transparent doesn’t mean
39:01.2
39:03.8
you’re being vulnerable right and I can
39:02.8
39:04.9
tell you right now that I’m wearing a
39:03.8
39:06.4
light blue shirt and that’s being
39:04.9
39:08.9
transparent that doesn’t make me
39:06.4
39:10.5
necessarily vulnerable but on the path
39:08.9
39:12.2
of owner ability you can stop at
39:10.5
39:15.1
transparency and kind of start there
39:12.2
39:16.8
what really gets an individual and
39:15.1
39:18.4
therefore a team over the hump is that
39:16.8
39:22.1
there are two things that are consistent
39:18.4
39:24.0
with vulnerability one it’s a risk that
39:22.1
39:26.1
they’re taking by putting it out there
39:24.0
39:27.7
again by me telling you that I have a
39:26.1
39:29.9
light blue shirt on not much of a risk
39:27.7
39:32.3
by Talent sure so it has to be a risk
39:29.9
39:34.2
and then the second thing is I’m willing
39:32.3
39:36.2
to have a conversation with you about it
39:34.2
39:38.7
so if you think about all the issues
39:36.2
39:40.0
business non-business related on any
39:38.7
39:41.3
sort of team that you’re a part of
39:40.0
39:43.3
leading to remember
39:41.3
39:46.0
can you do that right can you take a
39:43.3
39:47.5
risk by admitting things right are you
39:46.0
39:49.4
willing to have a conversation about it
39:47.5
39:51.4
or if for some reason you shy away from
39:49.4
39:53.5
it want to cover up what I can see Obama
39:51.4
39:56.5
teams do that that causes dysfunction
39:53.5
39:59.3
well I will tell you that my team’s here
39:56.5
40:02.5
at our company we’ve done a lot of work
39:59.3
40:05.6
towards this it’s harder before it gets
40:02.5
40:07.8
easier and it’s very hard to start that
40:05.6
40:10.9
dialogue in the beginning we’ve been
40:07.8
40:13.3
doing it for so long I’ve forgotten some
40:10.9
40:15.7
of that stuff and another fellow
40:13.3
40:18.1
business owner and recently invited me
40:15.7
40:20.7
to one of his meetings and he asked me
40:18.1
40:23.5
to weigh in and I started doing some of
40:20.7
40:25.5
the items that you mentioned and it did
40:23.5
40:30.5
not go over well it on because none of
40:25.5
40:34.0
the legwork was given so if somebody was
40:30.5
40:35.7
going to start to be vulnerable you know
40:34.0
40:37.1
obviously they got to do more than say
40:35.7
40:40.0
this is the blue shirt that I’m wearing
40:37.1
40:41.9
yeah but are there some guidelines so
40:40.0
40:44.0
everybody feels comfortable along with
40:41.9
40:46.1
that process obviously I didn’t even do
40:44.0
40:48.0
the process I just rushed in and I
40:46.1
40:49.9
totally halted that meeting and they all
40:48.0
40:52.8
thought I was nuts of course they did
40:49.9
40:54.4
all right you can’t apply even even in
40:52.8
40:56.0
the same organization you can’t apply
40:54.4
40:58.3
what you’ve done on team a the team B
40:56.0
41:00.3
even the same culture because every team
40:58.3
41:01.8
is different every team is unique and
41:00.3
41:03.5
they have their own norms or
41:01.8
41:05.8
expectations if you will how people are
41:03.5
41:07.5
gonna engage and behave but back to tips
41:05.8
41:09.2
though in terms of if this is something
41:07.5
41:11.8
that you want to do what’s kind of your
41:09.2
41:13.0
first step in doing so well with each of
41:11.8
41:15.1
the five dysfunctions we have a
41:13.0
41:18.4
corresponding kind of role the leader
41:15.1
41:19.5
and for this to work well in a team
41:18.4
41:21.5
environment
41:19.5
41:24.0
it’s very simple the leader has to go
41:21.5
41:25.3
first because as a team member what’s
41:24.0
41:27.3
happening is I’m sitting around the
41:25.3
41:28.7
table and we’re having conversations
41:27.3
41:30.3
about work and business and moving
41:28.7
41:32.8
things forward and clients and products
41:30.3
41:34.3
and services and there’s the topic that
41:32.8
41:36.0
requires some vulnerability because
41:34.3
41:37.4
there’s a lot of opinions on that and
41:36.0
41:39.9
people won’t go there well here’s the
41:37.4
41:41.2
trick right if the leaders not going to
41:39.9
41:42.4
go there people on the team are not
41:41.2
41:45.1
going to feel safe to go there as well
41:42.4
41:47.0
so our advice is the leader has to go
41:45.1
41:49.3
first and be consistent with that over
41:47.0
41:50.8
some time and then encourage the rest of
41:49.3
41:53.3
the team to follow suit and when they do
41:50.8
41:54.5
team members typically follow suit but
41:53.3
41:56.2
the leader has to go first
41:54.5
41:57.6
otherwise you’re thinking I’m not
41:56.2
41:58.7
sticking my neck out there should I’m
41:57.6
42:02.8
not gonna be the first one who goes
41:58.7
42:06.0
great point all right so now we’ve got
42:02.8
42:08.0
good trust and the team people feel they
42:06.0
42:11.0
can be vulnerable with each other and
42:08.0
42:14.0
now what so well I do want to be careful
42:11.0
42:18.2
of is we do not want to wait until our
42:14.0
42:20.0
trust cup is 100% full before we move on
42:18.2
42:21.9
to the next one which is really about
42:20.0
42:23.6
having healthy conflict okay having
42:21.9
42:27.2
healthy conflict it really helped build
42:23.6
42:30.1
trust on a team but conflict in the
42:27.2
42:32.7
absence of trust is just office politics
42:30.1
42:35.2
conflict with trust a foundation of
42:32.7
42:36.9
trust is pursue the truth and that’s
42:35.2
42:39.7
what I want the team to get after so I
42:36.9
42:41.5
have to reiterate this and that is we
42:39.7
42:42.5
don’t do conflict resolution that’s not
42:41.5
42:43.9
what this is about because a lot of
42:42.5
42:45.7
people look at our model and say oh
42:43.9
42:48.7
conflict you help us with conflict
42:45.7
42:51.4
resolution no the exact opposite we are
42:48.7
42:54.4
encouraging you as an organization as a
42:51.4
42:56.6
team to have conflict because there are
42:54.4
42:58.6
really critical topics that that group
42:56.6
43:00.6
of people need to discuss and therefore
42:58.6
43:02.3
decide to move the organization forward
43:00.6
43:03.3
and there’s tons of reasons why people
43:02.3
43:05.6
don’t want to do it because I’m
43:03.3
43:07.0
comfortable it’s emotional we see this
43:05.6
43:08.6
all the time with our clients they
43:07.0
43:10.4
default to the subject matter expert
43:08.6
43:12.3
around the table so if we’re having a
43:10.4
43:14.7
big conversation about whatever it is in
43:12.3
43:16.5
the organization we want the finance
43:14.7
43:18.8
person the HR person the operations
43:16.5
43:21.1
person challenging the IT person and not
43:18.8
43:23.5
just defaulting to the I t’s subject
43:21.1
43:24.7
matter expertise so that’s another
43:23.5
43:26.0
reason why people don’t do it the
43:24.7
43:28.1
ultimate question that I love to ask
43:26.0
43:29.9
clients when they’re struggling and
43:28.1
43:32.8
really just having a difficult time
43:29.9
43:35.3
engaging the conflict is this what’s at
43:32.8
43:37.6
risk if we don’t roll up our sleeves and
43:35.3
43:39.5
have this difficult conversation what’s
43:37.6
43:40.9
at risk in the organization we’re gonna
43:39.5
43:41.7
miss the timing in the market are going
43:40.9
43:43.3
to be over-budget
43:41.7
43:45.4
are we not going to satisfy our clients
43:43.3
43:46.7
so the answer to that question is
43:45.4
43:49.0
different for every organization for
43:46.7
43:51.3
every team for every decision but what’s
43:49.0
43:52.9
at risk if we don’t have this
43:51.3
43:54.6
conversation and there’s a very specific
43:52.9
43:56.5
issue that needs to be identified in
43:54.6
43:57.9
that case that’s a great question
43:56.5
44:00.1
because it sort of brings you out of the
43:57.9
44:02.6
moment and now you’re kind of able to
44:00.1
44:03.7
rise above it and see the issues if you
44:02.6
44:05.4
don’t have this calm
44:03.7
44:07.1
sation and maybe it does take some of
44:05.4
44:08.9
the politics about it maybe it was a
44:07.1
44:12.1
conversation that you and I have but
44:08.9
44:14.5
recently someone told me the definition
44:12.1
44:16.8
of politics was when you change the way
44:14.5
44:18.1
you say something based on who’s in the
44:16.8
44:20.0
room was that you yeah it wasn’t me but
44:18.1
44:22.2
that’s very good not very very good
44:20.0
44:24.3
because again I’m used like a military
44:22.2
44:26.6
example for a moment you know back and
44:24.3
44:28.0
kind of the some of the desert Wars you
44:26.6
44:30.2
know people would come under the tents
44:28.0
44:32.4
and they would rip off the velcroed
44:30.2
44:33.7
stripes on the side of their uniform
44:32.4
44:35.3
throwing the center of the table and say
44:33.7
44:36.3
none of this rank matters right now in
44:35.3
44:39.0
this conversation we’ll hear to save
44:36.3
44:41.5
lives we want teams to be able to do the
44:39.0
44:43.0
same exact thing so whether you report
44:41.5
44:44.5
to the CEO whether you report to a
44:43.0
44:46.9
manager or director when you’re around
44:44.5
44:48.5
the table do the same exact thing strip
44:46.9
44:50.1
those titles away put them in the center
44:48.5
44:52.9
of the table and say that doesn’t matter
44:50.1
44:54.9
we have to solve this problem because
44:52.9
44:56.9
our we were concerned about making it
44:54.9
44:58.6
right or being right because if I’m more
44:56.9
45:01.3
concerned about being right as an
44:58.6
45:02.8
individual I’m not gonna go after making
45:01.3
45:04.7
it right for the organization and
45:02.8
45:08.5
therefore the customer or the vendor who
45:04.7
45:11.3
are serving I love that because so many
45:08.5
45:12.8
times when we are in disagreements we’re
45:11.3
45:14.9
worried about ourselves about being
45:12.8
45:17.8
right and not about doing the right
45:14.9
45:19.4
thing is there something that I can do
45:17.8
45:22.4
for myself is there a question that I
45:19.4
45:23.8
can ask myself to say okay am I worried
45:22.4
45:25.8
about being right maybe that’s the
45:23.8
45:27.1
question or am i worried about doing the
45:25.8
45:28.4
right things I know a lot of people
45:27.1
45:30.2
struggle with that yeah I think you just
45:28.4
45:32.0
have to put that out there and again as
45:30.2
45:33.6
simple as this model is and sometimes
45:32.0
45:35.6
the complexity of applying it because
45:33.6
45:37.8
it’s just it’s all human conversations
45:35.6
45:40.1
right and you’re not really sure should
45:37.8
45:41.8
I go first I sit back should I say this
45:40.1
45:44.4
should I not if I say this is that kind
45:41.8
45:46.1
of put me in jeopardy me and my job but
45:44.4
45:48.5
at the end of the day we’re all just
45:46.1
45:49.8
passing through our roles right we’re
45:48.5
45:51.5
just passing through our roles at the
45:49.8
45:53.7
end of the day I’m in a certain role
45:51.5
45:57.0
right now I’m passing through it am I
45:53.7
45:59.3
really honoring the reason why I’m in
45:57.0
46:01.4
this role and the organization that
45:59.3
46:02.9
gives me a paycheck and I know this kind
46:01.4
46:04.9
of like going towards a higher calling
46:02.9
46:07.5
if you will in terms of having people
46:04.9
46:09.7
think that through but it is difficult I
46:07.5
46:11.5
totally recognize it but yeah my more
46:09.7
46:12.9
concerned right now being right versus
46:11.5
46:14.9
making it right and when we introduced
46:12.9
46:17.2
like terminology like that to a client
46:14.9
46:19.0
we just have them talk about that right
46:17.2
46:20.4
now they pause the conversation are you
46:19.0
46:21.6
right right now that your opinions are
46:20.4
46:23.2
not going to be shared across the team
46:21.6
46:24.9
and then it’s to make you look bad or
46:23.2
46:26.5
you concern about solving this problem
46:24.9
46:27.4
and that that’s kind of hard right you
46:26.5
46:29.3
think about like getting in a
46:27.4
46:30.6
conversation absolutely but that’s what
46:29.3
46:32.4
you have to do is it to you yeah and
46:30.6
46:35.0
that in essence makes you vulnerable
46:32.4
46:37.2
therefore conflict can help you build
46:35.0
46:39.9
trust we just win a whole circle around
46:37.2
46:41.6
them yeah and this is the healthy part
46:39.9
46:44.6
that you refer to we first started
46:41.6
46:46.4
talking about this and why I love the
46:44.6
46:48.9
books that we’re talking about so much
46:46.4
46:51.0
is because when when you’re taking
46:48.9
46:53.1
business classes it’s all about the
46:51.0
46:55.3
spark it’s about the balance sheet it’s
46:53.1
46:57.5
about the budget it’s about the P&L it’s
46:55.3
46:59.5
about the cash flow statement it’s none
46:57.5
47:02.4
of the stuff that you really need to
46:59.5
47:05.2
know to run a business or run a team in
47:02.4
47:07.8
a healthy way and I haven’t been able to
47:05.2
47:09.7
found any other academic way other than
47:07.8
47:12.2
books like these in order to learn those
47:09.7
47:14.5
things so I appreciate you doing some of
47:12.2
47:16.5
the things that you do to help teams get
47:14.5
47:17.9
to that point because our school systems
47:16.5
47:19.3
definitely aren’t doing that that’s the
47:17.9
47:21.2
smart and healthy piece we focused on
47:19.3
47:22.7
the smart stuff in our education we have
47:21.2
47:24.3
found out recently that there are
47:22.7
47:26.7
several MBA programs around the country
47:24.3
47:28.6
that are using pets the five
47:26.7
47:30.2
dysfunctions of a team book and some of
47:28.6
47:32.4
those graduates are ending the workplace
47:30.2
47:34.1
they introduce the book into their
47:32.4
47:36.1
employer and all of a sudden we
47:34.1
47:38.8
sometimes get a phone call from someone
47:36.1
47:40.6
who’s like you know 27 28 years old and
47:38.8
47:42.4
said I read your book and my MBA program
47:40.6
47:44.7
and my company is now struggling we need
47:42.4
47:45.9
your help how cool is that so it is kind
47:44.7
47:48.0
of cool that that’s making its way back
47:45.9
47:50.0
to academia there we go yeah there we go
47:48.0
47:52.0
okay so we talked about trust yeah we
47:50.0
47:53.7
talked about fear of conflicts where we
47:52.0
47:54.9
go now so the third one and we talked
47:53.7
47:56.1
about this just a few moments ago is
47:54.9
47:57.8
their own commitment and again the
47:56.1
47:59.8
headline is giving people the
47:57.8
48:02.7
opportunity to weigh in to buy in are we
47:59.8
48:05.5
focused on consensus decision-making we
48:02.7
48:07.2
write about everybody agreeing or can we
48:05.5
48:09.0
end conversations with team members
48:07.2
48:10.8
being in support of precisely when they
48:09.0
48:12.8
disagree with but that is the kind of
48:10.8
48:14.6
third category and the role of the
48:12.8
48:16.7
leader when it comes to commitment is
48:14.6
48:18.1
the force clarity in closure and again
48:16.7
48:19.3
that’s more of an art than it is a
48:18.1
48:21.7
science but let me give you one or two
48:19.3
48:24.4
tips around that how do you as a leader
48:21.7
48:26.3
know when it’s time in the conversation
48:24.4
48:27.3
it’s a force clarity enclosure
48:26.3
48:29.1
well again two things
48:27.3
48:31.5
one people start to repeat themselves
48:29.1
48:33.1
and you can just tell in the
48:31.5
48:34.7
conversation that people don’t feel like
48:33.1
48:36.9
they’re being heard so they repeat it
48:34.7
48:38.3
over and over again and as a leader you
48:36.9
48:40.4
have to have the discernment to say okay
48:38.3
48:41.6
oh they’re adding any new information or
48:40.4
48:43.3
just repeating themselves and that’s
48:41.6
48:45.8
kind of the second thing is any new
48:43.3
48:47.7
information entering the conversation at
48:45.8
48:49.9
this point so as a leader you can take
48:47.7
48:52.0
those two tidbits and say my team is
48:49.9
48:53.5
kind of circling right now let’s bring
48:52.0
48:56.2
clarity and closure to this conversation
48:53.5
48:57.8
and sometimes as simple as this we’re
48:56.2
49:00.6
not ready to make a decision yet but
48:57.8
49:02.8
let’s close out this conversation that
49:00.6
49:04.7
way everybody on the team understands
49:02.8
49:06.8
the conversations over we’ll come back
49:04.7
49:08.3
to it later or we can make a decision
49:06.8
49:09.9
based upon the conversation right now
49:08.3
49:12.4
it’s just so important for the leader to
49:09.9
49:13.6
say here’s clarity enclosure to water as
49:12.4
49:15.3
we just talked about there’s multiple
49:13.6
49:17.0
ways we go about doing that but that’s
49:15.3
49:18.3
really key for a leader to be able to do
49:17.0
49:20.5
when it comes to getting commitment on
49:18.3
49:24.0
the team excellent and you shared
49:20.5
49:25.3
recently with me the fist of five which
49:24.0
49:27.6
I didn’t know about which is one of the
49:25.3
49:29.0
techniques that you use on figuring out
49:27.6
49:30.8
where to go with this it’s really
49:29.0
49:33.3
helpful for clients when they’re around
49:30.8
49:36.3
the table and they’re just struggling
49:33.3
49:37.5
through a particular topic and it’s just
49:36.3
49:39.6
a technique that we’ll use
49:37.5
49:42.0
midway through a conversation or towards
49:39.6
49:44.7
the end of it or I’ll just say ok when
49:42.0
49:46.7
it comes to hiding this new CRM vendor
49:44.7
49:48.5
what have you where does everybody stand
49:46.7
49:50.3
on this do a fist of five and we just
49:48.5
49:52.4
have the team go one two three and hold
49:50.3
49:55.1
up as many fingers whether it’s a five
49:52.4
49:58.1
four to one or whatever and it isn’t
49:55.1
50:00.1
voting meaning it’s we have a total of
49:58.1
50:02.2
21 points based upon the team and
50:00.1
50:04.3
therefore that’s the decision we just
50:02.2
50:06.4
look at it and say if anybody’s holding
50:04.3
50:08.1
three fingers or more it’s time to move
50:06.4
50:10.1
on because they’re pretty much in
50:08.1
50:13.6
support of yeah and I think the point is
50:10.1
50:15.6
that’s a tool a leader can use to help
50:13.6
50:17.7
see where we are around the table and
50:15.6
50:19.8
then maybe we’re talking about something
50:17.7
50:21.2
we don’t need to talk about everybody’s
50:19.8
50:22.7
in agreement we continue to talk about
50:21.2
50:24.0
it and we just need to move on and
50:22.7
50:26.1
here’s why this is so powerful because
50:24.0
50:27.6
if everybody’s holding up you know three
50:26.1
50:28.0
or four or five fingers it is time to
50:27.6
50:29.9
move on
50:28.0
50:32.2
but the other thing though for you as a
50:29.9
50:34.3
leader but don’t you want to know before
50:32.2
50:38.2
the conversation is over that someone
50:34.3
50:39.6
just now voted one or a two but they
50:38.2
50:41.5
haven’t been part of the conversation
50:39.6
50:43.8
for 20 minutes now it’s like we need to
50:41.5
50:46.1
draw you into the conversation and that
50:43.8
50:47.2
can result back to great conflict
50:46.1
50:48.8
because they haven’t shared their
50:47.2
50:50.4
opinion and they haven’t made themselves
50:48.8
50:52.4
vulnerable perhaps to share their
50:50.4
50:54.3
opinion so let’s work that scenario so
50:52.4
50:57.0
you’re leading a meeting yeah we’ve got
50:54.3
50:59.3
12 people at the table everybody in
50:57.0
51:01.5
there is three fours and five and then
50:59.3
51:04.3
you come to me and I’m holding one
51:01.5
51:06.7
finger yeah so as a leader how do you
51:04.3
51:08.3
skillfully obviously I didn’t feel
51:06.7
51:11.2
comfortable weighing in to this
51:08.3
51:13.2
conversation but we can’t move on until
51:11.2
51:15.0
I weigh in so how do you make me feel
51:13.2
51:16.5
comfortable so I can do that well so a
51:15.0
51:18.9
couple of things in your question there
51:16.5
51:21.0
if I can make you comfortable okay I
51:18.9
51:21.2
will try fair enough but that’s not my
51:21.0
51:24.6
goal
51:21.2
51:26.6
all right so I am gonna ask you and it
51:24.6
51:28.6
just very simply so you know so trace
51:26.6
51:30.1
you’ve kind of said you’re out of one
51:28.6
51:31.3
right here so just tell me what you’re
51:30.1
51:32.8
thinking why are you giving this a lot
51:31.3
51:35.5
and I just want to draw you into the
51:32.8
51:37.6
conversation but at the same exact time
51:35.5
51:40.4
I should have talked about this and we
51:37.6
51:43.7
were discussing conflict conflict is not
51:40.4
51:46.2
comfortable and we don’t want teams to
51:43.7
51:47.7
say that once we do get comfortable then
51:46.2
51:49.4
we’ll engage in conflict and then we’ll
51:47.7
51:52.1
bring clarity enclosure to conversations
51:49.4
51:54.2
we’d rather have the team used to be an
51:52.1
51:56.8
uncomfortable build up that tolerance of
51:54.2
51:58.4
saying again what’s up risk if we don’t
51:56.8
52:00.1
have this conversation this is a
51:58.4
52:01.8
difficult topic it’s gonna be
52:00.1
52:04.0
uncomfortable we know that going into it
52:01.8
52:07.2
let’s embrace it anyhow so getting
52:04.0
52:09.9
people comfortable is not really our
52:07.2
52:12.9
goal getting them after the issue is our
52:09.9
52:16.1
goal that’s awesome all right so we’ve
52:12.9
52:18.6
got trust we’ve dealt with conflict
52:16.1
52:20.3
we’ve got commitment what’s the next
52:18.6
52:22.3
step so the fourth one is the most
52:20.3
52:24.3
challenging for everybody that we work
52:22.3
52:26.4
with and it really is challenging
52:24.3
52:29.0
because it’s peer to peer accountability
52:26.4
52:30.1
not hub-and-spoke accountability because
52:29.0
52:32.6
if you think about the word
52:30.1
52:34.8
accountability all right it feels
52:32.6
52:38.0
punitive it feels negative it feels very
52:34.8
52:39.7
reactive and you’ve probably been in a
52:38.0
52:40.9
conversation before you’re like we need
52:39.7
52:42.7
to have a sit-down Congress
52:40.9
52:44.1
and I’m gonna hold that person
52:42.7
52:46.5
accountable and that’s that’s very
52:44.1
52:50.1
hub-and-spoke right boss to subordinate
52:46.5
52:52.7
well what we strive for on teams is peer
52:50.1
52:54.3
to peer accountability or colleagues go
52:52.7
52:55.8
to another colleague without having to
52:54.3
52:58.8
get the boss involved to have an
52:55.8
53:01.2
accountability conversation now as I say
52:58.8
53:02.5
that again in a lot of people’s minds
53:01.2
53:05.3
when they hear accountability it still
53:02.5
53:07.6
spills punitive and reactive and very
53:05.3
53:09.7
negative I want to totally reprogram and
53:07.6
53:11.3
rebrand that for you if we’re going to
53:09.7
53:13.9
spend all this time as a team building
53:11.3
53:15.9
trust and being vulnerable right if we
53:13.9
53:17.8
wouldn’t have really in-depth difficult
53:15.9
53:20.9
and uncomfortable conflict conversations
53:17.8
53:22.6
and we’re gonna be committed and support
53:20.9
53:24.7
conversations even if we disagree with
53:22.6
53:27.4
accountability is just simply this it’s
53:24.7
53:29.8
protecting promises right let’s protect
53:27.4
53:32.4
the promise that we’ve made together as
53:29.8
53:34.2
a team through all those dialogues of
53:32.4
53:36.0
these really important conversations
53:34.2
53:37.8
that are essential for growing and
53:36.0
53:38.7
moving the organizations forward so
53:37.8
53:40.8
think about it from that perspective
53:38.7
53:42.5
don’t think about the negative punitive
53:40.8
53:45.0
version of accountability that’s been
53:42.5
53:48.2
part of your perhaps career you’re just
53:45.0
53:50.1
protecting a promise so I have a great
53:48.2
53:52.0
story here of a client that does this
53:50.1
53:53.1
incredibly well that I think would be
53:52.0
53:53.8
great to share now is that okay
53:53.1
53:56.0
absolutely
53:53.8
53:58.5
okay so several years ago I’m with a
53:56.0
54:00.2
particular client here in Atlanta and it
53:58.5
54:01.8
was the third time I was with them which
54:00.2
54:03.7
is kind of key to the story because the
54:01.8
54:06.4
very first time I was with them
54:03.7
54:08.3
completely dysfunctional chairs thrown
54:06.4
54:11.3
around the room all I sources we’ve had
54:08.3
54:14.5
that happen no not at all
54:11.3
54:15.6
but not to that level but almost to the
54:14.5
54:17.6
point where people couldn’t make an eye
54:15.6
54:18.5
contact around the table they couldn’t
54:17.6
54:19.7
go to dinner and have a normal
54:18.5
54:20.9
conversation Wow
54:19.7
54:22.2
so it was very challenging very
54:20.9
54:25.1
difficult a lot of history a lot of
54:22.2
54:27.0
baggage so this is probably six to nine
54:25.1
54:28.2
months into the relationship I’m back
54:27.0
54:30.6
for the third time working with this
54:28.2
54:32.9
particular team they make tons of
54:30.6
54:34.9
progress the head of IT in the midst of
54:32.9
54:37.1
this meeting says across to the table to
54:34.9
54:39.0
the head of HR the last time we were
54:37.1
54:40.8
together the single most important thing
54:39.0
54:43.2
that we all agreed to was hiring very
54:40.8
54:44.5
key positions since that time I’ve seen
54:43.2
54:46.9
nothing out of you or your department
54:44.5
54:49.0
what’s going on so pause for a moment
54:46.9
54:51.1
right you hear that story and if you’re
54:49.0
54:53.0
a dysfunctional team what do you think
54:51.1
54:54.4
is gonna happen if you’re dysfunctional
54:53.0
54:56.0
you’re digging your heels in
54:54.4
54:58.4
right you’re gonna guard your turf
54:56.0
55:00.1
you’re thinking how dare you how dare
54:58.4
55:01.6
you in this public setting call me out
55:00.1
55:04.5
like that and that’s what a lot of us
55:01.6
55:06.0
are afraid of don’t have me do conflict
55:04.5
55:06.7
in the open environment don’t let me be
55:06.0
55:08.0
vulnerable
55:06.7
55:09.4
let’s not have accountability because
55:08.0
55:12.1
everyone is thinking all those sort of
55:09.4
55:13.6
fears but when a team is building all
55:12.1
55:15.5
this foundational stuff that I’ve been
55:13.6
55:17.3
talking about and something like that
55:15.5
55:19.5
happens in a meeting which we encourage
55:17.3
55:21.9
by the way here’s what the response was
55:19.5
55:25.6
kind of HR says you’re right I’ve
55:21.9
55:28.3
dropped the ball my mistake I apologize
55:25.6
55:30.0
after today’s meeting can we walk back
55:28.3
55:32.5
to my office I have two folders the
55:30.0
55:34.5
first folder is ready to give to you the
55:32.5
55:36.3
second folder is not and for a few
55:34.5
55:38.1
reasons it’s not but again I apologize
55:36.3
55:42.9
but let’s just walk back to my office
55:38.1
55:44.7
and head of IT says okay sounds good end
55:42.9
55:46.2
of it I mean that was it so if you think
55:44.7
55:48.8
about like an EKG when you go to the
55:46.2
55:50.9
cardiologist that was a 15-second blip
55:48.8
55:53.3
on the EKG in that meeting meaning
55:50.9
55:55.5
within 15 seconds that team was back to
55:53.3
55:57.0
normal on a dysfunctional team it’s
55:55.5
55:58.7
gonna take that team six months to
55:57.0
56:00.7
recover from that conversation at least
55:58.7
56:02.6
yeah do you believe that that person
56:00.7
56:04.4
killed her out in that meeting yeah and
56:02.6
56:06.7
and we’re not truly having the real
56:04.4
56:08.7
meeting in that meeting we’re having
56:06.7
56:10.0
meetings outside of that meeting talking
56:08.7
56:11.7
about everybody else and we’re gonna
56:10.0
56:13.2
talk about the damage that does your a
56:11.7
56:15.1
little bit because that is significant
56:13.2
56:16.6
okay so let me just finish one piece of
56:15.1
56:17.8
the story because it kind of does come
56:16.6
56:20.2
full circle and all the stuff we’re
56:17.8
56:22.2
talking about so right after the head of
56:20.2
56:23.5
IT says oh yeah that’s fine I’ll walk
56:22.2
56:25.2
back to your office that’s great
56:23.5
56:27.0
other people on the team now sort of
56:25.2
56:28.9
chiming in and saying hey I’m also
56:27.0
56:30.0
having a problem getting some stuff out
56:28.9
56:32.2
of your area
56:30.0
56:35.5
me too I’m also having is everything
56:32.2
56:38.2
okay now this head of HR becomes
56:35.5
56:40.8
completely vulnerable and breaks down
56:38.2
56:43.1
there was a significant issue going on
56:40.8
56:45.2
her personal life that nobody had any
56:43.1
56:46.9
visibility into whatsoever so
56:45.2
56:49.3
significant that it would impact
56:46.9
56:50.8
anybody’s work life and the team was
56:49.3
56:53.5
clueless because she wasn’t bringing
56:50.8
56:56.1
that to work with her so in that very
56:53.5
56:58.9
moment other team members why it may
56:56.1
57:00.7
have sound like they were piling on the
56:58.9
57:03.3
conversation very shortly thereafter
57:00.7
57:03.8
shifted to were concerned about you how
57:03.3
57:06.6
can we
57:03.8
57:09.7
you mm-hmm now the team can rally around
57:06.6
57:12.3
that individual because she was
57:09.7
57:13.4
vulnerable about admitting it but then
57:12.3
57:15.5
they embraced peer-to-peer
57:13.4
57:18.3
accountability and that’s a key thing
57:15.5
57:19.5
that is important but also challenging
57:18.3
57:22.0
and also uncomfortable about
57:19.5
57:24.3
peer-to-peer accountability we want the
57:22.0
57:26.8
team to do it in the open not behind
57:24.3
57:28.8
closed doors so we’ve always been taught
57:26.8
57:31.5
in management you know classes praised
57:28.8
57:33.9
publicly reprimand privately well if a
57:31.5
57:35.7
behavior or a circumstance is going on
57:33.9
57:38.2
in the team environment where do you
57:35.7
57:40.5
address it in the team environment and
57:38.2
57:42.1
right there that’s a challenge for a lot
57:40.5
57:44.2
of people go back to the story that I
57:42.1
57:45.9
just shared though if that hadn’t taken
57:44.2
57:47.3
place they’d have never gotten to the
57:45.9
57:49.2
point where other people on the team
57:47.3
57:50.9
could say I’m also having a problem
57:49.2
57:53.2
what’s going on we care about you or
57:50.9
57:55.5
concerned about you and I can’t help but
57:53.2
57:56.8
thinking about Stephen Covey’s book the
57:55.5
57:58.7
7 Habits of Highly Effective People
57:56.8
58:01.1
which we talk about a lot on this show
57:58.7
58:01.6
and you know that team had a paradigm
58:01.1
58:04.0
shift
58:01.6
58:05.9
you know before then they maybe could
58:04.0
58:08.9
have faked wanting to help but when they
58:05.9
58:11.7
truly understood that was an immediate
58:08.9
58:14.7
just reaction that they they really
58:11.7
58:16.7
wanted to help they had to help so it’s
58:14.7
58:18.6
critical it’s difficult we do a team
58:16.7
58:20.1
assessment for a lot of our clients and
58:18.6
58:21.6
it’s it’s available on our website and
58:20.1
58:23.7
not sure what that is a little bit later
58:21.6
58:25.5
but one of the questions on our team
58:23.7
58:27.5
assessment it’s question number eight
58:25.5
58:30.3
out of 38 questions I have it memorized
58:27.5
58:31.6
it is the lowest ranked question on all
58:30.3
58:33.8
of our clients when they when they take
58:31.6
58:35.1
this assessment and that is this team
58:33.8
58:37.2
members point out one another’s
58:35.1
58:38.8
unproductive behaviors so think about
58:37.2
58:41.0
answering that on a scale of one to five
58:38.8
58:42.4
five being high one being low that’s
58:41.0
58:44.1
always the lowest ranked when we start
58:42.4
58:45.9
cleansing we will work with because that
58:44.1
58:47.3
is challenging if you think about that
58:45.9
58:48.9
and if you walk into the work
58:47.3
58:50.3
environment every single day and you
58:48.9
58:52.1
can’t wait to point out everybody else
58:50.3
58:53.5
is unproductive behaviors you’re kind of
58:52.1
58:56.4
sick you get other issues going on in
58:53.5
58:58.0
your life but that is what a healthy
58:56.4
59:00.9
team that’s what my cohesive team does
58:58.0
59:03.4
if there is a behavior that is unhealthy
59:00.9
59:05.9
that you’re displaying I have to be able
59:03.4
59:07.7
and willing to share that same thing for
59:05.9
59:10.5
me if there’s an unhealthy behavior that
59:07.7
59:12.7
I’m displaying our relationship has to
59:10.5
59:13.6
be so strong that you are really able to
59:12.7
59:16.2
share that with me
59:13.6
59:18.4
not pull me aside in the hallway behind
59:16.2
59:20.4
closed doors to share it but to do it in
59:18.4
59:22.0
the team setting and again as I say that
59:20.4
59:25.1
what I realize are people are thinking
59:22.0
59:26.4
no way I’ll remember this whose feedback
59:25.1
59:27.7
do you listen to because the
59:26.4
59:29.4
conversation I just kind of broke down
59:27.7
59:31.8
for you that’s a lot of feedback whose
59:29.4
59:34.0
feedback do you listen to well it’s
59:31.8
59:36.1
really only those people that you trust
59:34.0
59:38.3
that’s why accountability sits on top of
59:36.1
59:41.1
commitment which sits on top of conflict
59:38.3
59:43.2
which sits on top of trust the issue and
59:41.1
59:45.4
challenge here is that we isolate only
59:43.2
59:47.3
on the topic of accountability and
59:45.4
59:48.2
forget that there’s those three layers
59:47.3
59:51.4
underneath of it
59:48.2
59:53.4
accountability does not go well when
59:51.4
59:55.2
there’s not trust on the team we haven’t
59:53.4
59:56.1
had difficult conflict conversations and
59:55.2
59:59.0
we’re not committed of all we’ve
59:56.1
1:00:01.1
discussed together I’m thinking to every
59:59.0
1:00:03.3
stumble that I’ve ever had and it all
1:00:01.1
1:00:07.1
goes back to that I don’t think I’ve
1:00:03.3
1:00:09.1
ever heard that message clarified so
1:00:07.1
1:00:11.5
well you only listen to the feedback
1:00:09.1
1:00:12.8
from people that you trust I mean they
1:00:11.5
1:00:14.2
don’t go in your ear not your other ear
1:00:12.8
1:00:16.0
for people that you don’t trust but you
1:00:14.2
1:00:18.3
really only internalize it and think
1:00:16.0
1:00:21.6
about it from people that you trust so
1:00:18.3
1:00:25.6
we did all of that we’re at that point
1:00:21.6
1:00:28.1
and now where are we okay so the top of
1:00:25.6
1:00:30.6
the pyramid is results and specifically
1:00:28.1
1:00:32.1
if we talk about collective results so a
1:00:30.6
1:00:33.4
couple things around this that are
1:00:32.1
1:00:34.5
really key cuz it’s a little bit
1:00:33.4
1:00:36.1
different than how people in
1:00:34.5
1:00:39.1
organizations think about results and
1:00:36.1
1:00:41.9
that is this isn’t everybody swimlane
1:00:39.1
1:00:44.0
responsibilities that they have as the
1:00:41.9
1:00:46.4
department head or the VP head or the
1:00:44.0
1:00:48.5
foreman of this is the collective result
1:00:46.4
1:00:51.0
that we as a unit we as a department or
1:00:48.5
1:00:52.9
we as a company to focus on so what are
1:00:51.0
1:00:54.2
the collective results that were aiming
1:00:52.9
1:00:57.1
for or shooting for
1:00:54.2
1:00:59.5
so when we see team members get around a
1:00:57.1
1:01:01.8
table and we have conversations with
1:00:59.5
1:01:03.1
them over a couple of days there’s this
1:01:01.8
1:01:06.1
really interesting thing that typically
1:01:03.1
1:01:08.1
plays itself out and that is do people
1:01:06.1
1:01:10.2
belly up to the table as a vertical
1:01:08.1
1:01:12.9
advocate representing their area of the
1:01:10.2
1:01:15.1
business only or when they belly up to
1:01:12.9
1:01:17.5
the table or they a horizontal leader
1:01:15.1
1:01:20.1
across the entire business completely
1:01:17.5
1:01:22.5
different mindset that changes the
1:01:20.1
1:01:24.5
meetings you accept and reject that
1:01:22.5
1:01:26.5
changes who you travel to go see that
1:01:24.5
1:01:28.6
changes the way that you engage
1:01:26.5
1:01:30.6
conversation because we think this
1:01:28.6
1:01:34.0
doesn’t sound right but we think when
1:01:30.6
1:01:35.8
you’re on a team the most important part
1:01:34.0
1:01:36.7
in role you have is that of a generic
1:01:35.8
1:01:40.0
team member
1:01:36.7
1:01:42.0
meaning I’m here first has a horizontal
1:01:40.0
1:01:44.0
leader across this team to lead the
1:01:42.0
1:01:45.4
organization so we have this thing in
1:01:44.0
1:01:46.5
the book the five dysfunctions of a team
1:01:45.4
1:01:48.6
called team number one
1:01:46.5
1:01:50.3
right and we ask clients who’s your
1:01:48.6
1:01:52.7
number one team is it the team that you
1:01:50.3
1:01:54.4
lead or the team that you’re on and then
1:01:52.7
1:01:55.9
we have a fun conversation after that
1:01:54.4
1:01:59.2
because a lot of people don’t even think
1:01:55.9
1:02:01.5
about that yeah and and again I’m just
1:01:59.2
1:02:03.8
so impressed with how everything is laid
1:02:01.5
1:02:06.7
out there’s a reason that’s at the top
1:02:03.8
1:02:09.0
of the pyramid and the base bottom of
1:02:06.7
1:02:10.9
the pyramid is trust and if you don’t
1:02:09.0
1:02:13.9
work through all those how are you ever
1:02:10.9
1:02:15.6
going to think as a team and not just
1:02:13.9
1:02:16.7
for yourself or the people that are
1:02:15.6
1:02:20.2
around you let me just think about the
1:02:16.7
1:02:22.5
word teamwork if the team isn’t working
1:02:20.2
1:02:24.9
on something together then what are we
1:02:22.5
1:02:26.9
talking about the team has to be working
1:02:24.9
1:02:28.5
on something something together there’s
1:02:26.9
1:02:30.1
a difference between a basketball team
1:02:28.5
1:02:32.2
and a golf team a golf team is not a
1:02:30.1
1:02:33.4
team they stood around a golf going to
1:02:32.2
1:02:34.8
the clubhouse afterwards and they add up
1:02:33.4
1:02:37.0
their scores with the other people on
1:02:34.8
1:02:39.4
their team right on a basketball team
1:02:37.0
1:02:42.0
you need and rely on the other people on
1:02:39.4
1:02:43.4
that floor to successfully score a point
1:02:42.0
1:02:46.4
in other words there are
1:02:43.4
1:02:47.8
interdependencies on a team which is
1:02:46.4
1:02:50.0
different than a work group there are
1:02:47.8
1:02:53.1
interdependencies we need and rely on
1:02:50.0
1:02:55.4
our colleagues to be successful all
1:02:53.1
1:02:58.2
right Rick so all of this is great it’s
1:02:55.4
1:03:00.7
all centered around meetings and if this
1:02:58.2
1:03:03.4
is the first time I’ve ever thought this
1:03:00.7
1:03:05.6
way or I’ve ever heard this I’m thinking
1:03:03.4
1:03:09.7
does this guy want me to spend my entire
1:03:05.6
1:03:11.9
week in meetings so and you mentioned
1:03:09.7
1:03:12.9
the book death by meeting so I can see
1:03:11.9
1:03:15.7
these people out in the audience
1:03:12.9
1:03:17.9
thinking I’m gonna slowly die from these
1:03:15.7
1:03:19.8
meetings so what do you have to say for
1:03:17.9
1:03:21.1
that yeah and unfortunately we’ve all
1:03:19.8
1:03:22.7
been there we’ve been on those horrible
1:03:21.1
1:03:25.3
meetings where it’s like it’s never
1:03:22.7
1:03:26.8
gonna end you’re checking your watch or
1:03:25.3
1:03:28.9
you’ve already given your status update
1:03:26.8
1:03:30.2
and after you given your status update
1:03:28.9
1:03:31.6
your colleagues are now going
1:03:30.2
1:03:33.4
you have your phone underneath the table
1:03:31.6
1:03:35.3
looking at messages right
1:03:33.4
1:03:37.5
death by meeting and we think some of
1:03:35.3
1:03:39.6
the worst messages is when the leader
1:03:37.5
1:03:41.5
asks the team for agenda items a day or
1:03:39.6
1:03:43.7
a week before some of the team members
1:03:41.5
1:03:46.7
send that they get into the meeting room
1:03:43.7
1:03:48.3
everybody gives a status update and then
1:03:46.7
1:03:49.6
the leader fills in all the blanks and
1:03:48.3
1:03:51.6
does the majority the talking right
1:03:49.6
1:03:53.2
that’s death by meeting right there
1:03:51.6
1:03:56.1
right nobody wants to go to that meeting
1:03:53.2
1:03:57.9
so again we want to reprogram this in
1:03:56.1
1:03:59.6
people’s minds especially if you’re on a
1:03:57.9
1:04:02.1
leadership team that the time you look
1:03:59.6
1:04:04.5
forward to the most every single week is
1:04:02.1
1:04:05.6
your leadership team meeting or whether
1:04:04.5
1:04:07.9
it’s every other week or once a month
1:04:05.6
1:04:10.3
and there’s a specific way to go about
1:04:07.9
1:04:12.4
doing that so one of the first things is
1:04:10.3
1:04:13.5
we can’t do meetings to here’s what I
1:04:12.4
1:04:15.8
just described to you a couple of
1:04:13.5
1:04:18.0
moments ago it was meeting Stu put
1:04:15.8
1:04:20.8
everything in a one big pot big
1:04:18.0
1:04:23.0
strategic issues small tactical issues
1:04:20.8
1:04:25.1
topics that one person on a team is
1:04:23.0
1:04:27.1
passionate about but not the other team
1:04:25.1
1:04:28.9
members you don’t get closer to the
1:04:27.1
1:04:31.5
topics that you do decide to discuss and
1:04:28.9
1:04:33.6
it’s just one big smelly bad tasting pot
1:04:31.5
1:04:35.0
called meetings – so we were to break
1:04:33.6
1:04:37.5
that down for clients and one of the
1:04:35.0
1:04:40.4
biggest premises is to say we need to
1:04:37.5
1:04:42.2
separate tactical conversations from
1:04:40.4
1:04:44.5
your strategic conversations there are
1:04:42.2
1:04:46.1
two separate meetings you don’t do those
1:04:44.5
1:04:47.6
different types of topics ever in the
1:04:46.1
1:04:49.5
same meeting the two different meetings
1:04:47.6
1:04:52.2
and they don’t have to be the same
1:04:49.5
1:04:54.6
frequency so tactical meetings typically
1:04:52.2
1:04:56.2
happen on average once every week or in
1:04:54.6
1:04:56.7
some of our clients cases once every two
1:04:56.2
1:04:59.2
weeks
1:04:56.7
1:05:01.2
and tactical topics are just think about
1:04:59.2
1:05:02.4
it from this perspective what are topics
1:05:01.2
1:05:04.6
that have about a seven to ten day
1:05:02.4
1:05:06.5
runway there are relevant topics for the
1:05:04.6
1:05:10.0
next week or week and a half couple of
1:05:06.5
1:05:12.6
weeks perhaps and it is a topic that you
1:05:10.0
1:05:14.5
as a team member don’t need to give an
1:05:12.6
1:05:17.7
update on but you want to come around
1:05:14.5
1:05:19.4
the table with your colleagues right and
1:05:17.7
1:05:19.9
get their input on a problem that you’re
1:05:19.4
1:05:21.8
having
1:05:19.9
1:05:23.2
because remember you don’t have to have
1:05:21.8
1:05:24.2
everything figured out yourself you’re
1:05:23.2
1:05:25.4
there as a team to help solve each
1:05:24.2
1:05:28.4
other’s problems to lead the
1:05:25.4
1:05:29.7
organization and if I’m struggling if
1:05:28.4
1:05:30.8
I’m the head of marketing and there’s a
1:05:29.7
1:05:31.9
problem that we’re having right now in
1:05:30.8
1:05:33.6
the marketing department or with a
1:05:31.9
1:05:36.2
certain vendor or with switching vendors
1:05:33.6
1:05:37.9
or whatever it is right I want to bring
1:05:36.2
1:05:40.3
that to my weekly tactical meeting with
1:05:37.9
1:05:42.9
my leadership team and say here’s the
1:05:40.3
1:05:44.3
problem I need your input that’s perfect
1:05:42.9
1:05:45.7
cuz I have a vendor call with them later
1:05:44.3
1:05:48.2
this week I want your input because
1:05:45.7
1:05:50.6
here’s the deal you can look at this and
1:05:48.2
1:05:52.0
say here’s some of the best brains in
1:05:50.6
1:05:53.9
the business around this table right now
1:05:52.0
1:05:56.0
why wouldn’t I want my colleagues input
1:05:53.9
1:05:58.2
on this top sure yes I own it
1:05:56.0
1:06:00.0
yes I’m responsible for it yes I need to
1:05:58.2
1:06:01.6
make the call but I want to bring you
1:06:00.0
1:06:02.7
into my world and I need you to bring me
1:06:01.6
1:06:03.1
in the euro world so he can be a real
1:06:02.7
1:06:05.5
team
1:06:03.1
1:06:08.4
so those tactical topics again seven to
1:06:05.5
1:06:10.2
ten kind of day runway if you will and
1:06:08.4
1:06:11.9
the topics you can probably discuss do
1:06:10.2
1:06:13.7
some quick problem-solving giving some
1:06:11.9
1:06:16.5
advice in about 10 or 15 minutes per
1:06:13.7
1:06:17.8
topic that’s a tactical meeting really
1:06:16.5
1:06:20.0
simple and straightforward and do not
1:06:17.8
1:06:21.3
start that meeting with an agenda we do
1:06:20.0
1:06:23.4
a lightning round because of its
1:06:21.3
1:06:25.0
tactical only nothing strategic you
1:06:23.4
1:06:26.9
don’t have to have an agenda beforehand
1:06:25.0
1:06:29.3
we have a team in five minutes or less
1:06:26.9
1:06:30.5
come into the room and say okay one of
1:06:29.3
1:06:31.7
the big critical things going to talk
1:06:30.5
1:06:33.6
about today there are tactical in nature
1:06:31.7
1:06:35.8
nothing strategic everyone give me two
1:06:33.6
1:06:37.5
or three ideas and you do a whiteboard
1:06:35.8
1:06:38.7
or E if you’re a virtual team you do go
1:06:37.5
1:06:40.9
to ian’s or another piece of technology
1:06:38.7
1:06:42.0
where you see them listed and all the
1:06:40.9
1:06:45.1
things that the team should talk about
1:06:42.0
1:06:47.2
tactical tactical only so chances are
1:06:45.1
1:06:49.3
somebody that came into this
1:06:47.2
1:06:52.1
conversation and thought it was death by
1:06:49.3
1:06:54.2
meeting yeah you described exactly what
1:06:52.1
1:06:56.5
that meeting looked like and I’m willing
1:06:54.2
1:06:58.8
to bet that it didn’t look like what you
1:06:56.5
1:07:00.8
previously just recently described
1:06:58.8
1:07:02.3
because if I know I’m going into a
1:07:00.8
1:07:03.7
meeting where the agendas already set
1:07:02.3
1:07:05.3
and that’s none of the topics on the
1:07:03.7
1:07:07.0
agenda of even an interest to me
1:07:05.3
1:07:09.4
I’m checked out before the medians even
1:07:07.0
1:07:11.6
begun sure but if I’m bringing an issue
1:07:09.4
1:07:13.2
that I need your help to solve and
1:07:11.6
1:07:15.5
you’re bringing an issue that you need
1:07:13.2
1:07:16.8
my help to solve I’m not bringing my
1:07:15.5
1:07:18.8
phone out and checking messages in
1:07:16.8
1:07:20.2
between right we’re engaged we’re
1:07:18.8
1:07:22.4
helping each other solve problems we’re
1:07:20.2
1:07:24.0
leading the organization that’s entirely
1:07:22.4
1:07:26.5
different than how most people do
1:07:24.0
1:07:27.8
meetings and this is my specific piece
1:07:26.5
1:07:30.3
of advice I don’t think that it’s in
1:07:27.8
1:07:32.4
death by meeting but I don’t want
1:07:30.3
1:07:33.9
leaders running their own meetings right
1:07:32.4
1:07:35.3
because if a leader runs their own
1:07:33.9
1:07:36.6
meeting they’re gonna dominate the
1:07:35.3
1:07:38.4
majority of the conversation
1:07:36.6
1:07:40.5
I don’t want team members to run the
1:07:38.4
1:07:42.6
meeting rotate the facilitation of that
1:07:40.5
1:07:44.4
meeting across team members but don’t
1:07:42.6
1:07:46.2
let the leader run it that’s that’s
1:07:44.4
1:07:50.4
great advice and we’ve tried to do that
1:07:46.2
1:07:51.6
here and as the owner it was hard to let
1:07:50.4
1:07:53.6
go with that vine I just
1:07:51.6
1:07:56.8
have to say but on the back end of it I
1:07:53.6
1:07:59.2
now instead of having one liter I have
1:07:56.8
1:08:00.8
multiple leaders in that room and now
1:07:59.2
1:08:03.2
we’re able to make better conversations
1:08:00.8
1:08:05.2
through those better conversations we
1:08:03.2
1:08:07.7
make better decisions and of course
1:08:05.2
1:08:09.8
Trust was built all along the way when
1:08:07.7
1:08:11.5
win for everybody absolutely this has
1:08:09.8
1:08:12.8
been an incredible conversation I don’t
1:08:11.5
1:08:15.0
think anybody needs to read the books
1:08:12.8
1:08:16.7
now because you described everything
1:08:15.0
1:08:18.3
that was in the books
1:08:16.7
1:08:20.3
no of course there’s so much great
1:08:18.3
1:08:22.7
information in the books and I’m gonna
1:08:20.3
1:08:25.4
put books that we’ve mentioned on the
1:08:22.7
1:08:26.5
show notes page so scaling up nation if
1:08:25.4
1:08:28.1
you’re out there and you want to get
1:08:26.5
1:08:29.9
more information on that go to scaling
1:08:28.1
1:08:32.2
up h2o comm and I’ll have all that
1:08:29.9
1:08:35.2
information for you but I also know that
1:08:32.2
1:08:37.2
the table group puts out a lot of free
1:08:35.2
1:08:38.6
tools that if somebody’s listening here
1:08:37.2
1:08:40.6
today and they said you know I’d like to
1:08:38.6
1:08:42.7
just get my feet wet a little bit how
1:08:40.6
1:08:44.9
can they do that yeah several things on
1:08:42.7
1:08:46.0
our website which is table group comm
1:08:44.9
1:08:48.4
but I know you said you’ll put it on
1:08:46.0
1:08:51.0
your website right so you can link to it
1:08:48.4
1:08:52.2
right from your podcast website so when
1:08:51.0
1:08:54.6
you’ll into ours here’s a couple things
1:08:52.2
1:08:56.6
you’ll get free organizational health
1:08:54.6
1:08:58.6
assessment so back up one of the very
1:08:56.6
1:09:00.2
first things we talked about smart and
1:08:58.6
1:09:02.0
healthy the four disciplines of a
1:09:00.2
1:09:04.3
healthy organization so we’re all about
1:09:02.0
1:09:06.5
organizational health there’s a free
1:09:04.3
1:09:08.9
assessment out there you can assess the
1:09:06.5
1:09:10.7
health of your organization another
1:09:08.9
1:09:12.9
thing that very popular on our website
1:09:10.7
1:09:15.1
is something called the hub and the hub
1:09:12.9
1:09:17.7
is where we have articles that Pat
1:09:15.1
1:09:20.0
writes on a regular basis we highlight
1:09:17.7
1:09:22.1
sometimes a few of our clients a few of
1:09:20.0
1:09:23.8
our consultants write articles in terms
1:09:22.1
1:09:26.1
of what they are experiencing in the
1:09:23.8
1:09:28.3
field working with our client
1:09:26.1
1:09:31.8
organizations another thing also it’s
1:09:28.3
1:09:34.6
very popular is Pat has videos on our
1:09:31.8
1:09:36.5
website where he breaks down several the
1:09:34.6
1:09:39.1
different models that he has written
1:09:36.5
1:09:41.2
about you know for the last 15 20 years
1:09:39.1
1:09:43.1
and what’s important about those videos
1:09:41.2
1:09:45.6
and what people like them is that there
1:09:43.1
1:09:48.6
are three minutes or less yeah I’ve used
1:09:45.6
1:09:50.9
all of those and they are well worth the
1:09:48.6
1:09:53.4
trip through the internet what is the
1:09:50.9
1:09:55.3
one thing Rick that you’re hoping that
1:09:53.4
1:09:58.8
somebody listening to this conversation
1:09:55.3
1:10:01.6
gets out of today if you’re in a work
1:09:58.8
1:10:03.9
situation that is less than optimal
1:10:01.6
1:10:06.0
perhaps even we use the word
1:10:03.9
1:10:08.9
or dysfunctional it only gets worse when
1:10:06.0
1:10:10.7
you ignore it so in other words if you
1:10:08.9
1:10:14.0
are in charge of a team of a department
1:10:10.7
1:10:16.1
of a company whatever that is your
1:10:14.0
1:10:18.0
family the nonprofit that you volunteer
1:10:16.1
1:10:20.1
at and you have some sort of leadership
1:10:18.0
1:10:22.3
role and there’s a level of dysfunction
1:10:20.1
1:10:25.4
it only gets worse when you ignore it
1:10:22.3
1:10:26.9
you have to step in and step up to the
1:10:25.4
1:10:30.0
issue there you go
1:10:26.9
1:10:32.3
this has been awesome you’ve clarified a
1:10:30.0
1:10:35.0
lot of questions that I’ve had from my
1:10:32.3
1:10:37.1
own reading and I think you’ve sparked
1:10:35.0
1:10:39.0
an interest within the scaling up nation
1:10:37.1
1:10:40.5
for people to find out more about the
1:10:39.0
1:10:42.4
things that we’re talking about but I’m
1:10:40.5
1:10:44.4
not quite done with you yet I’ve got
1:10:42.4
1:10:46.3
some lightning round questions for you
1:10:44.4
1:10:48.8
if you are ready to accept that
1:10:46.3
1:10:51.6
challenge bring it on alright so my
1:10:48.8
1:10:54.2
first question as you can see from my
1:10:51.6
1:10:58.7
office I actually do have a DeLorean in
1:10:54.2
1:11:01.3
it I do have a flux capacitor I am a fan
1:10:58.7
1:11:04.3
of the Back to the Future series so we
1:11:01.3
1:11:06.8
are going to get into the DeLorean and
1:11:04.3
1:11:09.0
we are going to set the time circuits
1:11:06.8
1:11:11.3
back to the first day that you’ve
1:11:09.0
1:11:13.7
started working with this material and
1:11:11.3
1:11:16.5
helping businesses we get out of the
1:11:13.7
1:11:20.3
DeLorean you see your former self what
1:11:16.5
1:11:22.6
advice do you give so that’s an awesome
1:11:20.3
1:11:25.8
question for me it’s actually pretty
1:11:22.6
1:11:28.6
simple and that is don’t over invest
1:11:25.8
1:11:29.6
where the money is rather invest where I
1:11:28.6
1:11:34.5
can have the biggest impact
1:11:29.6
1:11:37.4
oh very good advice and of course for my
1:11:34.5
1:11:40.0
for my own well-being because I’m always
1:11:37.4
1:11:41.7
trying to replenish my book list what
1:11:40.0
1:11:43.8
are the last three books that you’ve
1:11:41.7
1:11:45.2
read so I mean I’m always reading
1:11:43.8
1:11:47.2
probably three or four books at the same
1:11:45.2
1:11:49.6
exact time usually ones from business
1:11:47.2
1:11:50.8
ones from like faithful relationships
1:11:49.6
1:11:53.0
and the other ones usually a history
1:11:50.8
1:11:55.4
book so I got I got one from each
1:11:53.0
1:11:58.1
category fair enough right so leadership
1:11:55.4
1:12:00.6
and self-deception that book has been
1:11:58.1
1:12:02.9
out for such a long time I never read it
1:12:00.6
1:12:04.1
until a leader here recently said for
1:12:02.9
1:12:05.7
the work that we do that would be a
1:12:04.1
1:12:07.5
really good book to walk through it has
1:12:05.7
1:12:09.3
been incredibly powerful
1:12:07.5
1:12:11.7
and it goes back to something I think I
1:12:09.3
1:12:13.8
said earlier and that is when someone’s
1:12:11.7
1:12:16.3
personal interests are at odds with
1:12:13.8
1:12:18.6
what’s best for the organization that’s
1:12:16.3
1:12:19.8
an issue in leadership and
1:12:18.6
1:12:23.1
self-deception does such a great job
1:12:19.8
1:12:25.2
breaking her down so I’m the second book
1:12:23.1
1:12:27.6
so again my category is kind of faith in
1:12:25.2
1:12:29.7
relationships the Cure so I’ve read The
1:12:27.6
1:12:31.7
Cure probably twelve times I reread it
1:12:29.7
1:12:33.7
every year sometimes multiple times a
1:12:31.7
1:12:36.2
year so it’s kind of a faith book and
1:12:33.7
1:12:38.3
really it’s two paths you want to choose
1:12:36.2
1:12:41.2
the path of pleasing God or the path of
1:12:38.3
1:12:42.9
trusting God hmm and it’s a really
1:12:41.2
1:12:44.5
incredible read with a lot of depth
1:12:42.9
1:12:46.9
that’s why we read it every year okay
1:12:44.5
1:12:50.0
and then from a histories perspective
1:12:46.9
1:12:55.0
beneath the Scarlet sky it is about
1:12:50.0
1:12:57.6
world war two Nazi occupied Italy and it
1:12:55.0
1:12:59.3
is literary fiction so it really is a
1:12:57.6
1:13:02.1
true story but the author to take a
1:12:59.3
1:13:03.7
couple of creative freedom trader
1:13:02.1
1:13:05.0
freedoms that kind of tie some of the
1:13:03.7
1:13:07.7
story together and it was just
1:13:05.0
1:13:10.6
fascinating all right well thanks for
1:13:07.7
1:13:11.7
sharing that and obviously with a life
1:13:10.6
1:13:13.8
like yours
1:13:11.7
1:13:15.7
eventually Hollywood’s gonna get a hold
1:13:13.8
1:13:18.9
of it they’re gonna write a movie about
1:13:15.7
1:13:21.1
it who did they cast to play Rick back
1:13:18.9
1:13:23.7
on none other than Tony Tom Hanks there
1:13:21.1
1:13:26.0
you go so I have been told that I sound
1:13:23.7
1:13:29.2
like Tom Hanks I do not hear that at all
1:13:26.0
1:13:31.7
but that is an email that I get from
1:13:29.2
1:13:34.2
this show I think maybe they’re they’re
1:13:31.7
1:13:35.7
equalizer or volumes messed up in their
1:13:34.2
1:13:37.1
car when they’re listing because I don’t
1:13:35.7
1:13:37.9
hear that at all well that’s why I chose
1:13:37.1
1:13:40.6
it well there you go
1:13:37.9
1:13:43.2
and then my last question and then I’ll
1:13:40.6
1:13:46.3
leave you alone I promise if you could
1:13:43.2
1:13:48.2
talk with anybody throughout history who
1:13:46.3
1:13:49.7
would it be with and why I can’t give
1:13:48.2
1:13:52.2
you a simple answer I’m sorry that’s
1:13:49.7
1:13:54.5
fine I got two ish fair enough
1:13:52.2
1:13:56.2
all right so kind of very related to
1:13:54.5
1:13:58.1
something I said earlier the first
1:13:56.2
1:14:00.5
person pretty might be the Apostle Paul
1:13:58.1
1:14:02.1
cuz I’m just like what happened on the
1:14:00.5
1:14:04.1
road to Damascus man I want to hear
1:14:02.1
1:14:06.7
about that then the other is tough I
1:14:04.1
1:14:09.8
want to talk to the key figures from
1:14:06.7
1:14:12.1
World War two it’s almost like if I
1:14:09.8
1:14:14.7
could have up on stage both the powers
1:14:12.1
1:14:16.8
of the Allied forces and the axis it’d
1:14:14.7
1:14:19.2
be like I want to like sit there and
1:14:16.8
1:14:21.0
talk to Roosevelt and Truman in
1:14:19.2
1:14:23.9
Eisenhower and Churchill and
1:14:21.0
1:14:26.1
and even like Mussolini and the Japan’s
1:14:23.9
1:14:28.5
Emperor and I don’t know if I wanna talk
1:14:26.1
1:14:30.6
to Hitler or not but like Charles
1:14:28.5
1:14:33.0
DeGaulle Stalin Montgomery to the
1:14:30.6
1:14:34.4
British commander I mean I think I just
1:14:33.0
1:14:36.3
read a lot of history on the world war
1:14:34.4
1:14:38.1
two and I just would love to have like
1:14:36.3
1:14:41.0
all those people around like one big
1:14:38.1
1:14:42.8
table and like talk to me right and
1:14:41.0
1:14:44.3
let’s just break this down and what were
1:14:42.8
1:14:47.0
you thinking of what was going on and
1:14:44.3
1:14:48.7
how did you strategize that would be fun
1:14:47.0
1:14:51.2
for me well I got to tell you I just had
1:14:48.7
1:14:53.2
the vision of you having all these
1:14:51.2
1:14:55.1
people sitting at a table and taking
1:14:53.2
1:14:57.5
them through the five dysfunctions of it
1:14:55.1
1:14:58.8
can you imagine what the world outcome
1:14:57.5
1:15:00.6
would have been if you would have had
1:14:58.8
1:15:02.9
that opportunity that’s what you should
1:15:00.6
1:15:04.3
have set the time circuits to that could
1:15:02.9
1:15:07.7
be more of the most challenging teams
1:15:04.3
1:15:09.4
but what I loved it yeah Rick thanks so
1:15:07.7
1:15:11.6
much for coming on the show lots of
1:15:09.4
1:15:13.6
great information and we really
1:15:11.6
1:15:15.0
appreciate all the wisdom that you
1:15:13.6
1:15:18.9
shared with us I appreciate you having
1:15:15.0
1:15:21.9
me thanks so much Tracy wow I really had
1:15:18.9
1:15:24.0
fun interviewing Rick lots of great
1:15:21.9
1:15:25.7
information folks I think that could
1:15:24.0
1:15:30.4
have been an interview that went on for
1:15:25.7
1:15:34.0
hours so much good stuff there as you’ve
1:15:30.4
1:15:37.6
just heard there’s a lot of pieces to
1:15:34.0
1:15:39.9
bringing a team together as we all know
1:15:37.6
1:15:42.9
teams are made up with people and
1:15:39.9
1:15:45.3
unfortunately people come with their
1:15:42.9
1:15:47.6
issues and most of them are
1:15:45.3
1:15:50.1
dysfunctional issues so if we put all
1:15:47.6
1:15:53.3
those together into a team by default we
1:15:50.1
1:15:58.1
have a dysfunctional team so you’ve just
1:15:53.3
1:16:02.5
heard a sample of how people like Rick
1:15:58.1
1:16:05.1
help people like us bring teams together
1:16:02.5
1:16:07.4
now you can hire somebody like Rick or
1:16:05.1
1:16:09.9
you can try to do some things yourself
1:16:07.4
1:16:13.4
it really depends on what your culture
1:16:09.9
1:16:17.3
is for how much your team will allow you
1:16:13.4
1:16:19.0
to do and how long things have been
1:16:17.3
1:16:21.0
dysfunctional if they’ve been
1:16:19.0
1:16:23.0
dysfunctional forever the people that
1:16:21.0
1:16:25.9
helped make them dysfunctional it’s
1:16:23.0
1:16:28.7
really difficult to get those people to
1:16:25.9
1:16:31.1
change the dysfunction and do something
1:16:28.7
1:16:33.9
more functional so a couple of things
1:16:31.1
1:16:34.8
that Rick mentioned were some of my
1:16:33.9
1:16:37.9
favorite books
1:16:34.8
1:16:41.6
pat Lencioni a great author he does
1:16:37.9
1:16:45.0
write in the fable format you heard I
1:16:41.6
1:16:47.7
had a transition on how I think about
1:16:45.0
1:16:49.8
the fable format I really like books
1:16:47.7
1:16:52.4
that tell me what to do and give me
1:16:49.8
1:16:55.5
action steps and Pat’s books do that but
1:16:52.4
1:16:57.6
they do that with a story first and then
1:16:55.5
1:16:59.9
the very last chapter they really wrap
1:16:57.6
1:17:02.5
it up and give you the action steps so
1:16:59.9
1:17:06.5
the two books if you want to learn more
1:17:02.5
1:17:09.6
about this one of my all-time favorite
1:17:06.5
1:17:13.3
team-building books is called the five
1:17:09.6
1:17:15.0
dysfunctions of a team so if you’re
1:17:13.3
1:17:19.3
interested in that book I’ve got a link
1:17:15.0
1:17:22.3
to it it’s scaling-up h2o calm /the
1:17:19.3
1:17:24.5
number five and dysfunctions all one
1:17:22.3
1:17:27.4
word so scaling-up h2o calm
1:17:24.5
1:17:30.0
forward-slash five dysfunctions the
1:17:27.4
1:17:33.2
other book which is fast approaching
1:17:30.0
1:17:35.9
also one of my all-time favorite books
1:17:33.2
1:17:37.7
is one of his newest books we learned on
1:17:35.9
1:17:40.4
the show of course that it was not his
1:17:37.7
1:17:43.0
newest book is called the advantage and
1:17:40.4
1:17:48.9
I’ve got a link to that it’s scaling up
1:17:43.0
1:17:51.6
h2o calm /the advantage all one word the
1:17:48.9
1:17:55.1
advantage is great if you don’t like the
1:17:51.6
1:17:58.2
business fable format but it’s also good
1:17:55.1
1:18:01.0
because I believe it takes 12 books and
1:17:58.2
1:18:03.9
wraps them all up and gives you some
1:18:01.0
1:18:07.9
awesome action items that you can take
1:18:03.9
1:18:10.0
to start making your team more cohesive
1:18:07.9
1:18:13.0
Rick also mentioned that there are some
1:18:10.0
1:18:16.3
free tools available for you on their
1:18:13.0
1:18:19.4
website so if you go to my show notes
1:18:16.3
1:18:23.3
page I will link you directly to those
1:18:19.4
1:18:26.2
tools so you can start using those they
1:18:23.3
1:18:28.8
really are phenomenal now a lot of
1:18:26.2
1:18:33.6
people ask you know where do I start
1:18:28.8
1:18:37.1
when I am trying to make my team a
1:18:33.6
1:18:39.3
better team and when I work with other
1:18:37.1
1:18:40.7
water treatment companies and building
1:18:39.3
1:18:42.6
their team and by the way that’s one of
1:18:40.7
1:18:45.2
my favorite things to do when people
1:18:42.6
1:18:48.3
allow me to come in and really get down
1:18:45.2
1:18:51.4
to know their team members and help them
1:18:48.3
1:18:54.8
establish what makes them such a great
1:18:51.4
1:18:58.9
company the first thing that I always do
1:18:54.8
1:19:02.4
is help them define their core values
1:18:58.9
1:19:05.5
and I know we’re hitting on a great
1:19:02.4
1:19:08.4
topic here because the last podcast was
1:19:05.5
1:19:11.9
about Daniel Perry and how he carries
1:19:08.4
1:19:14.8
out his core values in his chick-fil-a
1:19:11.9
1:19:17.3
restaurant and they live those core
1:19:14.8
1:19:19.9
values in every single thing that they
1:19:17.3
1:19:22.1
do so we know how successful a company
1:19:19.9
1:19:24.4
can be when they live their core values
1:19:22.1
1:19:26.6
so a question that I received actually
1:19:24.4
1:19:30.7
several questions that I received from
1:19:26.6
1:19:34.1
our last podcast all dealt with core
1:19:30.7
1:19:36.4
values so scaling up nation I hear you
1:19:34.1
1:19:39.4
you want to know more about developing
1:19:36.4
1:19:42.1
your company’s core values so the first
1:19:39.4
1:19:43.8
question that I got and this is a new
1:19:42.1
1:19:46.0
pinks and blues normally pinks and blues
1:19:43.8
1:19:47.6
were doing industry related items well I
1:19:46.0
1:19:49.8
guess we have to have a team in order to
1:19:47.6
1:19:52.8
be in business so this is industry
1:19:49.8
1:19:56.8
related as well so the first question I
1:19:52.8
1:20:00.2
have is about how I enjoy studying
1:19:56.8
1:20:01.9
businesses and how they use their core
1:20:00.2
1:20:04.4
values just like we did with chick-fil-a
1:20:01.9
1:20:07.4
I do that with pretty much every
1:20:04.4
1:20:10.0
customer transaction that I experience
1:20:07.4
1:20:12.0
it really gets on my wife’s nerves but
1:20:10.0
1:20:14.0
this is how I learn this is how I make
1:20:12.0
1:20:16.1
my own company better this is how I make
1:20:14.0
1:20:18.2
other companies better when I’m working
1:20:16.1
1:20:20.4
with them so the question that this
1:20:18.2
1:20:23.5
listener asks is what are some of the
1:20:20.4
1:20:27.0
other companies that I really think get
1:20:23.5
1:20:28.8
their core values right so you know how
1:20:27.0
1:20:31.2
I feel about chick-fil-a I think they
1:20:28.8
1:20:34.4
are outstanding when it comes to living
1:20:31.2
1:20:37.1
their core values another one is a gas
1:20:34.4
1:20:39.1
station yes folks a gas station and the
1:20:37.1
1:20:42.5
south we have a gas station called Kwik
1:20:39.1
1:20:45.7
Trip and I believe they go up maybe to
1:20:42.5
1:20:47.7
Southern Virginia and down almost to
1:20:45.7
1:20:51.5
Florida I’m not sure how far over they
1:20:47.7
1:20:55.1
go but I will pass ten other gas
1:20:51.5
1:20:59.9
stations to get to a quick trip and Kwik
1:20:55.1
1:21:01.3
Trip is so into their core values they
1:20:59.9
1:21:03.8
train them they hire
1:21:01.3
1:21:06.9
fire they reward they recognize on them
1:21:03.8
1:21:09.4
they make sure that every single time a
1:21:06.9
1:21:12.3
customer walks into one of their gas
1:21:09.4
1:21:15.7
stations they are greeted and they say
1:21:12.3
1:21:18.8
welcome to quick trip and there’s never
1:21:15.7
1:21:20.6
a line because people stop what they’re
1:21:18.8
1:21:22.5
doing if they’re stocking something they
1:21:20.6
1:21:24.6
realize that the only reason they’re
1:21:22.5
1:21:26.7
stocking something is because customers
1:21:24.6
1:21:29.0
are there buying it and they make sure
1:21:26.7
1:21:31.7
that the customer knows they’re
1:21:29.0
1:21:34.6
appreciated and they can get in and out
1:21:31.7
1:21:36.8
quickly so quick trip is a great company
1:21:34.6
1:21:39.0
another thing that they do say somebody
1:21:36.8
1:21:41.6
with an MBA wanted to join their
1:21:39.0
1:21:44.4
executive ranks well I’ve heard that
1:21:41.6
1:21:46.6
they start everybody in their gas
1:21:44.4
1:21:49.0
stations so they can learn their core
1:21:46.6
1:21:52.5
business and then when they learn that
1:21:49.0
1:21:56.8
they can move up to a more executive job
1:21:52.5
1:21:58.9
I think that just screams we live our
1:21:56.8
1:22:02.1
core values of course the other company
1:21:58.9
1:22:06.4
is Disney folks if you’ve ever been to
1:22:02.1
1:22:10.2
anything that Disney touches you know it
1:22:06.4
1:22:12.6
is all about the experience and Disney
1:22:10.2
1:22:15.8
does everything that they can to make
1:22:12.6
1:22:17.5
sure that that experience is magical I
1:22:15.8
1:22:21.8
don’t know if you’ve ever taken a Disney
1:22:17.5
1:22:25.5
cruise but it is incredible the links
1:22:21.8
1:22:28.8
that everybody will go to to make sure
1:22:25.5
1:22:31.3
that you have the best vacation that you
1:22:28.8
1:22:34.7
ever had so those are my top three
1:22:31.3
1:22:38.3
companies that I love to study their
1:22:34.7
1:22:40.6
core values now I also have a few that I
1:22:38.3
1:22:42.2
like to study that are the anti of
1:22:40.6
1:22:43.5
following their core values I’m not
1:22:42.2
1:22:46.1
going to share those with you on the air
1:22:43.5
1:22:50.1
but I’m sure you have a few of those
1:22:46.1
1:22:52.1
yourself my challenge to you is start
1:22:50.1
1:22:53.7
looking out for these things the next
1:22:52.1
1:22:56.8
time you have a customer service
1:22:53.7
1:22:59.0
experience good or bad see if you can
1:22:56.8
1:23:02.8
figure out what that company’s core
1:22:59.0
1:23:05.3
values are and see if you’re right see
1:23:02.8
1:23:07.7
if those people are really living them
1:23:05.3
1:23:10.3
and when you start looking for items
1:23:07.7
1:23:14.4
like this you will be amazed
1:23:10.3
1:23:17.1
at what core values can do for a company
1:23:14.4
1:23:20.0
now that being said our next question is
1:23:17.1
1:23:23.0
how do you go about discovering your
1:23:20.0
1:23:25.8
company’s core values and I love the way
1:23:23.0
1:23:28.3
that this person worded their question
1:23:25.8
1:23:30.2
they use the word discovering and a lot
1:23:28.3
1:23:32.6
of times people say how do we write our
1:23:30.2
1:23:35.2
core values or how do we figure out what
1:23:32.6
1:23:38.2
our core values are well chances are you
1:23:35.2
1:23:41.0
already know what your core values are
1:23:38.2
1:23:44.0
you just might not have the right words
1:23:41.0
1:23:48.7
to define them so I’m gonna give you a
1:23:44.0
1:23:52.0
couple of tips to help you discover what
1:23:48.7
1:23:54.6
your core values are first thing is and
1:23:52.0
1:23:58.8
I love that Rick said this he said
1:23:54.6
1:24:01.7
without way in there is no buy-in so if
1:23:58.8
1:24:05.2
you can include your entire team in this
1:24:01.7
1:24:09.3
discussion your entire team will support
1:24:05.2
1:24:12.1
these core values this is something that
1:24:09.3
1:24:15.3
will take some time so don’t rush this
1:24:12.1
1:24:18.4
try not to leave people out and make
1:24:15.3
1:24:21.7
sure that you’re committed to go all the
1:24:18.4
1:24:25.3
way through until you find the right
1:24:21.7
1:24:27.8
words that define your core values then
1:24:25.3
1:24:31.6
just like Rick said you have to tell
1:24:27.8
1:24:34.3
them seven times in order for them to
1:24:31.6
1:24:36.5
hear it the first time so a few other
1:24:34.3
1:24:39.1
things that might help you discover what
1:24:36.5
1:24:42.6
your core values are you might want to
1:24:39.1
1:24:44.3
bring a list maybe 50 or a hundred core
1:24:42.6
1:24:47.6
value words not that you’re gonna use
1:24:44.3
1:24:51.2
any of them but it just gets everybody
1:24:47.6
1:24:54.3
in the spirit of thinking along the
1:24:51.2
1:24:57.7
terms of good succinct words that
1:24:54.3
1:25:02.0
describe what you’re trying to discover
1:24:57.7
1:25:04.7
ask each other what are the rules that I
1:25:02.0
1:25:07.6
hired on to what are the things that
1:25:04.7
1:25:09.5
attracted me to this company that if
1:25:07.6
1:25:11.6
they weren’t there anymore
1:25:09.5
1:25:13.8
I would not want to work for this
1:25:11.6
1:25:16.5
company and by the way folks that’s a
1:25:13.8
1:25:19.0
great question friend of show Tim Fulton
1:25:16.5
1:25:20.7
my business coach he encourages
1:25:19.0
1:25:23.8
everybody in his
1:25:20.7
1:25:26.1
to ask their team members what would
1:25:23.8
1:25:29.0
have to happen to make you want to quit
1:25:26.1
1:25:32.0
what a weird question right but think
1:25:29.0
1:25:34.3
about when somebody does quit we ask
1:25:32.0
1:25:37.0
that question by default what do I have
1:25:34.3
1:25:39.8
to do to make you want to stay well
1:25:37.0
1:25:43.1
that’s the reactive response to that
1:25:39.8
1:25:45.6
issue what if we make it proactive and
1:25:43.1
1:25:47.7
everything’s going great I want you to
1:25:45.6
1:25:52.2
stay here but what would have to happen
1:25:47.7
1:25:54.3
for you to want to quit and what a great
1:25:52.2
1:25:58.4
conversation to have because now you can
1:25:54.3
1:26:00.6
fix that before you lose a great person
1:25:58.4
1:26:02.9
and that’s a great conversation to have
1:26:00.6
1:26:05.3
during this discussion because if you
1:26:02.9
1:26:07.9
can figure out what you don’t want to
1:26:05.3
1:26:11.1
happen you can start to form what you do
1:26:07.9
1:26:13.6
want to happen and those are your core
1:26:11.1
1:26:15.8
values something else you might want to
1:26:13.6
1:26:19.6
think of is the last time you’ve had to
1:26:15.8
1:26:24.1
let somebody go what were the behaviors
1:26:19.6
1:26:26.5
that made you go with the decision to
1:26:24.1
1:26:29.1
cut them loose and those are the
1:26:26.5
1:26:32.5
behaviors that you said those do not
1:26:29.1
1:26:35.7
belong in our company sometimes looking
1:26:32.5
1:26:39.0
at the anti core values can actually
1:26:35.7
1:26:41.1
help discover what your core values are
1:26:39.0
1:26:43.5
in working with different water
1:26:41.1
1:26:47.7
treatment companies more times than not
1:26:43.5
1:26:50.9
I will here a core value B to make money
1:26:47.7
1:26:52.5
or something along those lines and one
1:26:50.9
1:26:55.4
of my favorite quotes that Stephen Covey
1:26:52.5
1:26:57.6
has is no margin no mission let’s face
1:26:55.4
1:27:00.4
it if the company is not profitable we
1:26:57.6
1:27:04.1
don’t have a company we don’t have any
1:27:00.4
1:27:07.4
jobs so we have to make a profit but if
1:27:04.1
1:27:11.2
our core values are true if our core
1:27:07.4
1:27:14.8
values are trained and lived by all I
1:27:11.2
1:27:18.9
argue that a byproduct of our core
1:27:14.8
1:27:21.9
values is a profitable company so if we
1:27:18.9
1:27:24.3
get our core values right by default we
1:27:21.9
1:27:26.8
are going to make money it’s very easy
1:27:24.3
1:27:31.0
to get caught up in a bunch of core
1:27:26.8
1:27:32.9
values so we can’t decide on a couple of
1:27:31.0
1:27:33.7
different words so we’re going to use
1:27:32.9
1:27:36.2
all of the
1:27:33.7
1:27:39.7
and before we know we’ve got 25 core
1:27:36.2
1:27:42.7
values folks the key here is less is
1:27:39.7
1:27:45.7
more we have five and I actually defined
1:27:42.7
1:27:48.6
the five that we have in our company on
1:27:45.7
1:27:51.7
last week’s episode you can have more
1:27:48.6
1:27:55.4
than five but the more you have the
1:27:51.7
1:27:58.2
harder it is for people to train and the
1:27:55.4
1:28:02.6
harder it is for people to recognize
1:27:58.2
1:28:06.2
actions based on those core values so
1:28:02.6
1:28:09.1
less truly is more when it comes to this
1:28:06.2
1:28:12.6
once you think you’ve got the correct
1:28:09.1
1:28:14.9
core values go ahead and test them think
1:28:12.6
1:28:17.6
about the scenarios where if you did
1:28:14.9
1:28:20.9
have to let somebody go what were the
1:28:17.6
1:28:23.1
things that they weren’t doing according
1:28:20.9
1:28:25.5
to your core values that would have
1:28:23.1
1:28:29.8
forced your hand to let that person go
1:28:25.5
1:28:33.6
or if you were to hire the best hire you
1:28:29.8
1:28:36.1
ever could what would be those qualities
1:28:33.6
1:28:38.9
that you would be looking for that
1:28:36.1
1:28:41.4
person get everybody in the room to
1:28:38.9
1:28:44.3
participate in that conversation and if
1:28:41.4
1:28:47.4
everybody agrees you’re probably spot on
1:28:44.3
1:28:50.4
to finding what your core values truly
1:28:47.4
1:28:54.1
are once you’re there it’s important for
1:28:50.4
1:28:56.9
the group to define each one of those
1:28:54.1
1:28:59.1
words I mentioned the five core values
1:28:56.9
1:29:01.5
that my company has I was not
1:28:59.1
1:29:04.5
responsible for that by myself the team
1:29:01.5
1:29:06.1
came up with those five items and by the
1:29:04.5
1:29:07.3
way in case you’re wondering I’d love
1:29:06.1
1:29:10.2
for you to go back to listen to the show
1:29:07.3
1:29:13.6
again but they were integrity teamwork
1:29:10.2
1:29:16.9
gasps which stands for give a stuff
1:29:13.6
1:29:19.7
solution-oriented and attitude now those
1:29:16.9
1:29:23.6
are just words that you’re hearing me
1:29:19.7
1:29:27.9
say but in our company we define them so
1:29:23.6
1:29:32.7
they work for us and it is how we hire
1:29:27.9
1:29:37.5
fire reward and recognize everybody on
1:29:32.7
1:29:40.6
our team finally when everybody is good
1:29:37.5
1:29:43.7
with these core values you need to talk
1:29:40.6
1:29:45.8
about them all the time in every
1:29:43.7
1:29:46.7
conversation that you have with team
1:29:45.8
1:29:49.2
members you need
1:29:46.7
1:29:51.4
to work your core values in when you
1:29:49.2
1:29:54.0
recognize somebody for doing something
1:29:51.4
1:29:56.7
right you need to tie it back to a core
1:29:54.0
1:29:59.7
value if somebody is not performing
1:29:56.7
1:30:03.4
properly you need to tie it back to a
1:29:59.7
1:30:07.2
core value when you hire somebody they
1:30:03.4
1:30:09.9
need to be hired based on your core
1:30:07.2
1:30:12.3
values you need to talk about them and
1:30:09.9
1:30:15.1
talk about them and talk about them and
1:30:12.3
1:30:17.9
talk about them at least seven times
1:30:15.1
1:30:19.7
print some materials but don’t just hang
1:30:17.9
1:30:21.2
them on the wall I’m sure we all know
1:30:19.7
1:30:23.5
those companies out there that have
1:30:21.2
1:30:25.5
these beautiful pictures behind
1:30:23.5
1:30:28.2
beautiful frames or maybe they’re
1:30:25.5
1:30:30.3
plaques of core values and it’s out in
1:30:28.2
1:30:32.1
their Lobby and they’ve spent lots and
1:30:30.3
1:30:33.4
lots of money on it and you ask anybody
1:30:32.1
1:30:36.3
in that building what their core values
1:30:33.4
1:30:39.2
are and they cannot tell you what they
1:30:36.3
1:30:42.1
are it’s not important how pretty they
1:30:39.2
1:30:45.0
look it’s important how you live them
1:30:42.1
1:30:47.7
now as I mentioned before Rick mentioned
1:30:45.0
1:30:50.0
a lot of free tools that are on the
1:30:47.7
1:30:52.8
table group website so I’ll make sure
1:30:50.0
1:30:56.5
that I have some links specifically to
1:30:52.8
1:30:58.6
core values on my show notes page the
1:30:56.5
1:31:02.0
last question I have is a listener
1:30:58.6
1:31:04.9
writes in about the procedures comment
1:31:02.0
1:31:09.1
that I made on the last podcast episode
1:31:04.9
1:31:13.0
and I made a comment that if you had an
1:31:09.1
1:31:16.6
issue with a person before you treat it
1:31:13.0
1:31:19.8
as a person issue or a people issue you
1:31:16.6
1:31:22.9
first explore that it’s not a procedural
1:31:19.8
1:31:24.5
issue and the person wants to ask can
1:31:22.9
1:31:26.9
you talk a little bit more about that
1:31:24.5
1:31:29.1
and I can’t remember exactly what I said
1:31:26.9
1:31:31.7
on the last podcast so I might be
1:31:29.1
1:31:35.0
repeating myself a little bit if I am
1:31:31.7
1:31:39.4
forgive me but the next time you have an
1:31:35.0
1:31:42.9
issue ask yourself is there a procedure
1:31:39.4
1:31:44.6
that should have prevented that and if
1:31:42.9
1:31:47.3
there’s not that’s the problem right
1:31:44.6
1:31:50.1
there if there is then you need to ask
1:31:47.3
1:31:52.1
yourself a couple of questions one is it
1:31:50.1
1:31:54.9
a correct procedure did the fact that
1:31:52.1
1:31:58.6
procedure was wrong did that create the
1:31:54.9
1:32:01.4
issue if the procedure is correct
1:31:58.6
1:32:03.0
was it trained and folks I gotta tell
1:32:01.4
1:32:06.1
you I don’t like the word trained
1:32:03.0
1:32:08.7
because trained is whoever’s learning it
1:32:06.1
1:32:11.5
it’s a passive action if I’m the trainer
1:32:08.7
1:32:14.7
I’m now taking the action and somebody
1:32:11.5
1:32:17.3
is passively listening to how well I
1:32:14.7
1:32:20.2
know the subject matter so if you
1:32:17.3
1:32:22.9
remember one of the guests I had on
1:32:20.2
1:32:26.4
scaling up was Captain David Markey and
1:32:22.9
1:32:28.8
he was a naval submarine captain he
1:32:26.4
1:32:32.6
wrote the book turned the ship around he
1:32:28.8
1:32:36.0
did not train anybody on his sub what he
1:32:32.6
1:32:39.4
did was he certified people now think
1:32:36.0
1:32:42.0
about that term certify versus train if
1:32:39.4
1:32:46.4
I train somebody I’m doing the work if I
1:32:42.0
1:32:49.7
certify somebody they’re proving to me
1:32:46.4
1:32:53.0
that they understand the subject
1:32:49.7
1:32:55.4
material so at our company we do very
1:32:53.0
1:32:59.4
little training we do a lot of
1:32:55.4
1:33:01.7
certifying once we whoever is the person
1:32:59.4
1:33:04.5
signing off on that is comfortable that
1:33:01.7
1:33:07.3
that person knows the material we
1:33:04.5
1:33:09.6
physically certify that person by
1:33:07.3
1:33:12.7
signing off that they understand that so
1:33:09.6
1:33:15.8
ask yourself was that done did they
1:33:12.7
1:33:18.3
prove to you that they understood the
1:33:15.8
1:33:23.2
procedure that whatever that issue came
1:33:18.3
1:33:26.7
from and if all of that was yes well you
1:33:23.2
1:33:29.1
might have a people problem and then if
1:33:26.7
1:33:32.1
you have a people problem I would
1:33:29.1
1:33:34.3
suggest that you coach that person but
1:33:32.1
1:33:37.2
you keep track of how you’re coaching
1:33:34.3
1:33:39.7
them and if the same thing occurs I
1:33:37.2
1:33:42.6
think you know what action you have to
1:33:39.7
1:33:45.5
do from that and nobody likes to have to
1:33:42.6
1:33:47.7
let somebody go but folks we all have
1:33:45.5
1:33:50.5
successful companies because we do
1:33:47.7
1:33:54.3
things in a particular way and if people
1:33:50.5
1:33:57.2
can’t do that well they can do what we
1:33:54.3
1:34:00.0
do with somebody else but they can’t do
1:33:57.2
1:34:02.4
it here as Daniel Perry said we promote
1:34:00.0
1:34:04.3
them to customer nation I started out
1:34:02.4
1:34:07.0
the top of the show telling you about
1:34:04.3
1:34:09.9
all the things that we have coming up
1:34:07.0
1:34:10.9
very soon in the water treatment
1:34:09.9
1:34:13.6
community
1:34:10.9
1:34:17.4
one of the things I’m looking so forward
1:34:13.6
1:34:20.8
to is the fact that we have a holiday so
1:34:17.4
1:34:24.2
October 1st through 5th is industrial
1:34:20.8
1:34:29.0
water week and I want to do an episode
1:34:24.2
1:34:32.6
each and every day on the topic of that
1:34:29.0
1:34:34.6
day so the twist is instead of you guys
1:34:32.6
1:34:38.0
just riding in I want you to go to
1:34:34.6
1:34:39.5
scaling up h2o calm and there’s a button
1:34:38.0
1:34:42.1
on there on the right side of the screen
1:34:39.5
1:34:45.1
that says record voicemail I want you to
1:34:42.1
1:34:47.2
record your voice asking me your
1:34:45.1
1:34:49.8
question and you’re gonna hear your
1:34:47.2
1:34:51.0
voice on scaling up the other thing
1:34:49.8
1:34:52.3
that’s coming up of course is the
1:34:51.0
1:34:54.7
Association of Water Technologies
1:34:52.3
1:34:58.5
convention that’s coming up in September
1:34:54.7
1:35:01.3
I’m going to try to plan some events
1:34:58.5
1:35:03.9
where us scaling up nation folk can get
1:35:01.3
1:35:06.0
together we can network a little bit we
1:35:03.9
1:35:08.7
can share ideas on how we can get the
1:35:06.0
1:35:10.4
most out of the convention and just
1:35:08.7
1:35:13.6
really enjoy each other’s company
1:35:10.4
1:35:16.1
folks I really enjoy the fact that you
1:35:13.6
1:35:19.2
guys listen to this show and I love the
1:35:16.1
1:35:21.7
fact that you keep giving me ideas for
1:35:19.2
1:35:24.7
this show and I cannot wait to bring
1:35:21.7
1:35:25.1
more ideas to you next time on Scaling UP!