The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.2
0:14.0
welcome to scaling up the podcast for
the entire water treatment industry
0:14.0
0:20.3
where we scale up on knowledge so we
don’t scale up our systems I got you
0:20.3
0:25.9
that time didn’t I that was a different
way to start the show and I’m going to
0:25.9
0:31.8
talk about why that’s a little bit
different in a few moments but I am so
0:31.8
0:38.5
excited about today’s show this is a
viewer requested show the only thing
0:38.5
0:45.0
we’re going to talk about is one thing
and one thing only and that is
0:45.0
0:52.3
phosphates I have received so many
questions to the scaling-up mailbag
0:52.3
0:59.7
asking to explain phosphate so folks I’m
gonna do the best job that I can to
0:59.7
1:04.7
crystallize what phosphate is we’re
gonna talk about different testing
1:04.7
1:11.5
methods and some things that I have done
to prove or disprove some things that
1:11.5
1:17.5
you have heard in the water treatment
industry but before we start I want to
1:17.5
1:23.8
be sure that you all out there in the
scaling-up nation are prepared for what
1:23.8
1:28.0
is coming up what are the current events
coming up of course we have the
1:28.0
1:32.9
association of water technologies annual
convention that’s going to be September
1:32.9
1:39.8
26 through 29th in Orlando Florida folks
I’m gonna be there I am going to be
1:39.8
1:44.9
speaking at a couple of events there I’m
gonna tell you a little bit more about
1:44.9
1:51.0
that on an upcoming show I am also going
to be broadcasting there so if you are a
1:51.0
1:56.5
fan if you are a member of the scaling
up nation and I know there are a lot of
1:56.5
2:00.6
you out there because you let me know
and I love that we’re actually gonna
2:00.6
2:04.5
talk a little bit about that in a second
please come up to me and if you want to
2:04.5
2:08.9
be on the air I can make that happen
we’re going to talk about a meet-up that
2:08.9
2:12.6
we’re going to do at the end of the show
I want the people in the scaling up
2:12.6
2:17.9
nation to be energized and pumped up and
charged and ready to learn
2:17.9
2:22.9
and just assimilate all that information
that’s out there so stay tuned for that
2:22.9
2:28.3
another thing we have coming up is
industrial water week and that is
2:28.3
2:35.7
courtesy a friend of show superfan James
McDonald and he has made an official
2:35.7
2:42.4
holiday for us water treatment folk and
it is October 1st through 5th we’re
2:42.4
2:46.5
going to be doing some special things on
scaling up on each and every one of
2:46.5
2:50.5
those days and of course each and every
one of those days celebrates a different
2:50.5
2:55.2
part in the water treatment industry now
I started the show a little bit
2:55.2
2:59.9
differently and I do that because this
show is evolving folks when I started
2:59.9
3:05.8
this show April of last year I thought I
knew what the format was but you know
3:05.8
3:13.1
what you told me what you wanted and the
format has changed to adopt to that and
3:13.1
3:16.8
it will continue to change I’m willing
to bet two years from now the show’s
3:16.8
3:20.5
going to be totally different than what
it is now the only way I can do that the
3:20.5
3:25.3
only way I can fulfill what you want
this show to be is for you to let me
3:25.3
3:31.2
know that one of the new things that we
have is if you go to scaling up h2o comm
3:31.2
3:38.2
you will see there is a send voice mail
icon on the right side of the screen and
3:38.2
3:45.7
you can record your message to me and I
might even play it on the air so that’s
3:45.7
3:51.2
exactly what Rick did Rick left a
voicemail on the website letting us know
3:51.2
3:55.6
how much he appreciates scaling up I
trace this is Rick thank you for the
3:55.6
3:59.4
opportunity give you something back I
now really appreciate the podcast love
3:59.4
4:02.8
scaling up and all you’ve done for AWT
that’s killing up podcast has helped me
4:02.8
4:06.4
by improving my game you brought to
light some bad habits that I didn’t even
4:06.4
4:09.7
realize that I’ve had just by trying to
beyond the simple questions of here and
4:09.7
4:13.7
why that simple question of why
something happens why is that iron
4:13.7
4:17.7
reading and a contact why is the last
time you cows come higher than in the
4:17.7
4:20.4
most previous time when you have a
software and it’s a pretreat there’s
4:20.4
4:23.9
just the little simple things as opposed
to just red blues I’m sitting on the
4:23.9
4:27.7
report and sing it out then you’ve given
me a relationship advantage by being
4:27.7
4:30.7
able to communicate more effectively
with my customers as well so a defensive
4:30.7
4:33.1
advantage over
my competitors truly it’s a you want to
4:33.1
4:36.0
be the best in your industry you want to
keep those people out who were just here
4:36.0
4:39.3
to make a buck because you really want
to improve your customers process as
4:39.3
4:42.7
well as your your own corporate
visibility so with that you know again
4:42.7
4:45.7
thank you keep up the great work keep on
bringing the excellent guests learning a
4:45.7
4:49.2
lot from them again episode 9 is the
best absolutely love it would love
4:49.2
4:52.7
couple Legionella chill bills myself
thank you so much hope you get a chance
4:52.7
4:57.2
to meet you in person one day take care
Rick thank you so much for that
4:57.2
5:02.5
voicemail that is just awesome I love it
when I hear people in the scaling up
5:02.5
5:06.7
nation say that this show means
something to them thank you so much for
5:06.7
5:12.4
that voicemail it’s my hope that we get
more of those here at scaling up
5:12.4
5:16.3
headquarters folks of course another
thing that we are doing new that we
5:16.3
5:20.7
didn’t do when we started out is we have
some affiliate marketers one of the ones
5:20.7
5:26.8
that I love so much because I use them
each and every day I use them coming
5:26.8
5:33.2
into the office this very day of course
that’s audible audible is the way I read
5:33.2
5:39.1
my books because I’m a water treated
just like you and I am in my car all the
5:39.1
5:44.2
time so in order for me to be able to
read in order for me to keep up with all
5:44.2
5:48.2
the guests that I have on the show it’s
the only way that I can do that and of
5:48.2
5:53.5
course you can get a free month and a
free book to audible by going to
5:53.5
5:58.5
scaling-up
h2o com4 slash audible that is an
5:58.5
6:02.3
affiliate link and that helps me pay a
couple of bills here so I definitely
6:02.3
6:07.5
appreciate that and I know you’re going
to appreciate the service well nation as
6:07.5
6:12.5
I said at the top of the show this is a
show you asked for and you’re about to
6:12.5
6:16.9
get it I received so many questions on
phosphates
6:16.9
6:24.1
I thought trace let’s go ahead and do an
entire show on phosphates so what I’ve
6:24.1
6:26.3
done I’ve collected all of your
questions
6:26.3
6:30.9
I’ve even collected some questions off
of some blogs
6:30.9
6:37.9
and some listservs to try to answer
those before we do that I want everybody
6:37.9
6:42.9
to go on this journey with us so I want
to explain what phosphate is and I’m
6:42.9
6:47.0
going to you
whose phosphate in the cooling context
6:47.0
6:52.6
so it has many applications but I think
everybody can wrap around the cooling
6:52.6
6:57.3
context so imagine you were you had some
sort of cooling system like a cooling
6:57.3
7:04.6
tower and you wanted to protect that
from corrosion and scaling so depending
7:04.6
7:10.7
on what type of phosphate that you use
you can do those things so we’re gonna
7:10.7
7:15.4
get into now in a second but I want to
talk about one what the different types
7:15.4
7:21.4
of phosphates are so I’m going to try to
do this over the air this is a very
7:21.4
7:26.9
visual thing if you’ve ever taken a
class with me I draw out a very easy
7:26.9
7:34.0
chart to see but we’re going to try to
do this on a podcast so the most basic
7:34.0
7:40.9
form of phosphate is ortho phosphate and
folks really the only test out there the
7:40.9
7:45.9
only true tests in my opinion for
phosphate is ortho phosphate so I’m
7:45.9
7:50.7
going to mention the other phosphates
but it’s important for you to realize
7:50.7
7:56.7
that in order to really test for those
in my opinion and that’s all that is is
7:56.7
8:00.7
my opinion you have to change all the
other ones that I’m getting ready to
8:00.7
8:08.5
mention back to the ortho form with that
said here are our phosphates so we have
8:08.5
8:14.0
ortho phosphate and we have
polyphosphate now those two phosphates
8:14.0
8:20.3
are considered in organic phosphates I’m
gonna go a little bit further if you add
8:20.3
8:27.1
those two phosphates together you get
what we call total inorganic phosphate
8:27.1
8:32.0
so far so good right so let’s add
another one to the party now we have
8:32.0
8:39.8
organic phosphate so if you add organic
phosphate to the total inorganic
8:39.8
8:46.3
phosphate you get what’s called total
phosphate so how about that so you’ve
8:46.3
8:51.8
got five different types of phosphates
if you look at it but only really three
8:51.8
8:57.0
different species so ortho and poly
which make up total inorganic
8:57.0
9:04.8
fate and then ortho poly and organic
which make up total phosphate so what’s
9:04.8
9:09.3
the difference between inorganic and
organic phosphate well it has to do with
9:09.3
9:13.7
your water conditions and you’re going
to pick a particular phosphate depending
9:13.7
9:20.6
on what your water wants to do now I am
an LSI fan and that’s what I’ve grown up
9:20.6
9:27.9
with that’s what my father taught me so
an LSI of six or more is a
9:27.9
9:33.8
representation that your water has an on
scaling tendency notice I did not say it
9:33.8
9:40.2
had a corrosive tendency because nation
all waters out there are corrosive now
9:40.2
9:46.6
some are a little bit more aggressive in
others but water against anything given
9:46.6
9:52.0
enough time water will win it has one
job and that’s to corrode things so if
9:52.0
9:58.3
we have a non scaling tendency water we
are going to use most likely an
9:58.3
10:04.8
inorganic phosphate to allow us to
inhibit some of that corrosion now if we
10:04.8
10:11.3
have a scaling tendency water and on the
LSI scale that would be below six we
10:11.3
10:16.6
would use an organic phosphate now these
are not interchangeable
10:16.6
10:22.8
there are certain things that you need
in order for these phosphates to work an
10:22.8
10:29.6
example is you need carbonate alkalinity
in order for an organic program to work
10:29.6
10:36.5
properly and in order to have carbon and
alkalinity you must have a pH of 8.3 and
10:36.5
10:41.8
I know scaling up nation that 8.3 sounds
familiar and that is also the endpoint
10:41.8
10:48.4
of phenol failing and if you put a drop
in your sample and it turns red you have
10:48.4
10:53.8
carbonate alkalinity and your organic
phosphate will work for that you’re
10:53.8
11:00.1
going to get spotty protection if you do
not have carbonate alkalinity now as far
11:00.1
11:06.0
as the inorganic products if you start
putting the inorganic products in a high
11:06.0
11:10.6
pH say where carbon
alkalinity is present you’re gonna have
11:10.6
11:15.8
some issues possibly with scaling then
you know how much calcium you have in
11:15.8
11:19.3
your water definitely how much
alkalinity of course those two things
11:19.3
11:25.0
are the building blocks of scale and you
put phosphate in there and it could be
11:25.0
11:31.3
disastrous
so it is imperative that you treat for
11:31.3
11:36.4
the water that you are treating for so
if you don’t know what’s in your water
11:36.4
11:42.2
and you do know what type of phosphate
is in your product you owe it to
11:42.2
11:47.2
yourself you owe it to your customer to
figure out why this product is the best
11:47.2
11:51.1
choice for that and if you don’t know
any of that information go ahead and
11:51.1
11:56.7
make a commitment that you are going to
find this information out because folks
11:56.7
12:01.2
your water treaters and if you don’t
know about the water you’re treating and
12:01.2
12:07.5
the stuff that you’re using to treat
that you can’t do that job very well so
12:07.5
12:12.5
I mentioned earlier my favorite test for
phosphate and the one that I get the
12:12.5
12:19.3
most repeatable results from is the
ortho test and what I do is I convert
12:19.3
12:24.6
everything to the ortho form so let’s
talk about what we know now and how I
12:24.6
12:30.9
test for it on a regular basis so if we
have total inorganic phosphate so we
12:30.9
12:35.8
would have polyphosphate and ortho
phosphate so what I would do is I would
12:35.8
12:40.9
then test with the ortho test to figure
out how much ortho was in that sample
12:40.9
12:48.0
and then I have to prepare a sample in
order to revert that poly in to the
12:48.0
12:55.0
ortho form and that’s when I will test
that again and when I do that I now have
12:55.0
13:00.5
total inorganic phosphate because now
it’s using the ortho test to test for
13:00.5
13:05.9
both ortho and the reverted poly so I
have to subtract the original amount of
13:05.9
13:11.1
ortho to figure out what my poly is now
we have products here in the Atlanta
13:11.1
13:19.1
area that are for a more aggressive
less scale tendency water so we use
13:19.1
13:24.2
inorganic phosphates as one of our
primary corrosion inhibitors we get
13:24.2
13:28.5
great results with that because that’s
what it’s built for but I know a lot of
13:28.5
13:33.4
you out there are using organic
phosphate so let’s talk a little bit
13:33.4
13:39.3
about this so organic phosphates have a
bunch of different names and when I
13:39.3
13:43.0
listed out the different phosphates in
the beginning you’re probably saying hey
13:43.0
13:48.1
you left out a couple no I didn’t we
just have multiple terms for the same
13:48.1
13:52.9
thing in water treatment and organic
phosphate is probably the one that’s the
13:52.9
13:57.9
most confusing out there in the
scaling-up nation so I said organic
13:57.9
14:02.3
phosphate and that’s a term that I
learned in chemistry and it just stuck
14:02.3
14:08.2
with me now you might have heard Organo
phosphate which is basically the same
14:08.2
14:12.4
thing I said just a different way of
saying that you might also have heard it
14:12.4
14:18.6
called phospho Nate that’s also a way of
saying that and you might hear a
14:18.6
14:25.3
combination of those two put together
which is organo phosphonate now I had a
14:25.3
14:30.4
chemistry instructor that absolutely
hated that term and he’s passed that
14:30.4
14:35.9
along to me basically that saying the
same thing twice so the only reason I
14:35.9
14:41.2
mention it is so you know that there’s a
test out there and they call it
14:41.2
14:45.9
organophosphate and that’s what that is
it’s an organic phosphate test and my
14:45.9
14:51.6
chemistry instructor just wouldn’t like
what they named it and I’m sure most of
14:51.6
14:58.2
you out there are probably using that
type of test and you’re thinking wait a
14:58.2
15:03.7
second trace I don’t use that ortho test
I don’t degrade by the way you revert
15:03.7
15:10.8
the inorganic so the poly to the ortho
and you degrade the organic to the ortho
15:10.8
15:14.6
for a thousand points in the lead if
you’re ever on useless trivia and
15:14.6
15:20.0
jeopardy that’ll work for you so with
the organophosphate test it just pains
15:20.0
15:25.9
me to say that you are using a different
method then I talked about at the top of
15:25.9
15:31.9
the show to figure out how much of
that particular substance the organic
15:31.9
15:36.4
phosphate is in the system and then your
company says it’s either good in this
15:36.4
15:41.5
range or it’s bad in that range now I’m
willing to bet you have a love-hate
15:41.5
15:49.4
relationship with this test and one of
the reasons that I’m willing to bet you
15:49.4
15:53.1
don’t like it is you can run that test
four different times and you are going
15:53.1
15:59.4
to get four different results and I do
this every time I run it and I can never
15:59.4
16:05.3
get the exact same results and I’m
trying to make sure that my procedures
16:05.3
16:10.1
and my techniques are the exact same
each and every time that I do it it’s
16:10.1
16:15.2
just a difficult test to get a
repeatable reading on and a lot of you
16:15.2
16:20.1
have called in and you’ve asked me about
this so how do you know what your test
16:20.1
16:23.4
should do how do you know it’s working
or not
16:23.4
16:27.6
well folks I can tell you what works
what doesn’t work but it’s all my
16:27.6
16:34.8
opinion and what I urge you to do is
form your opinion on your equipment and
16:34.8
16:39.7
your tests because they’re your accounts
and you have to talk to your customers
16:39.7
16:46.1
and you have to be confident in your
program so the best way to do that is to
16:46.1
16:51.5
go ahead and do some experiments and
figure out what you need to figure out
16:51.5
16:59.0
now what I do here whenever I try a new
type of test is I make up a mixture in
16:59.0
17:03.6
the lab where I know exactly if we’re
talking about phosphonate I know exactly
17:03.6
17:07.9
how much phosphonate again that’s the
same thing as organic phosphate that’s
17:07.9
17:14.4
the same thing as organophosphate and of
course the term organophosphate so I
17:14.4
17:19.7
will put the exact amount in solution so
I can calculate what the
17:19.7
17:25.7
parts-per-million need to be and now I
test for it and I see if I can get that
17:25.7
17:32.0
number on my test and if I can
I like that test or if I’m wondering
17:32.0
17:37.1
what where my color changes should be is
this too dark is this too light well now
17:37.1
17:43.5
I can zero in on what that needs to look
like now keep in mind I’m doing this in
17:43.5
17:47.9
my lab and after years and years and
years in the water frame in industry I
17:47.9
17:52.4
have created a lab with the most
wonderful light you have ever seen they
17:52.4
17:58.5
are full-spectrum bulbs they are 6700
Kelvin which is supposed to be just like
17:58.5
18:03.2
sunlight and it is absolutely nothing
like what you’re used to in the
18:03.2
18:08.4
mechanical room so if you’re doing a
test like this set yourself up for good
18:08.4
18:14.0
results and make sure you’ve got good
light you’ve got clean glassware your
18:14.0
18:20.8
procedures are spot on and as precise as
they can be and now you can start
18:20.8
18:26.2
trusting what your tests are telling you
and now you can do a little bit better
18:26.2
18:32.3
interpretation all right so let’s talk
about another way the original way that
18:32.3
18:39.9
I was talking about testing for
phosphonate or organic phosphate what’s
18:39.9
18:43.4
the other terms I’m forgetting them now
now we have phosphonate organic
18:43.4
18:49.0
phosphonate organophosphate and
organophosphate which you all know isn’t
18:49.0
18:51.7
really a real term but we’re gonna say
it because they have a test name for
18:51.7
18:58.9
that now I said that I prefer to convert
everything back to the ortho form so how
18:58.9
19:06.5
we do that is either through heat or we
use some sort of UV digestion then to go
19:06.5
19:10.5
back through in order to convert the
poly to the ortho form you would use an
19:10.5
19:17.2
acid and heat that up in order to use
the ortho test for the organic test what
19:17.2
19:22.1
you would have to do is in the high
presence of oxygen and normally that’s
19:22.1
19:26.8
persulphate that we add into that and
then we heat that up or we put it under
19:26.8
19:32.7
some sort of a UV source so it can be
digested again it’s going to convert
19:32.7
19:38.2
everything to the ortho form and then if
we took ortho before we’re able to
19:38.2
19:43.5
subtract out the original ortho to
figure out what our final results are so
19:43.5
19:48.8
that’s what we’re going to do now with
the organic phosphate test so I’ve got
19:48.8
19:53.7
two ways of doing it let’s go ahead and
pick on the one for UV digestion and the
19:53.7
19:58.2
I’m going to do that is because it’s
quicker and folks when I’m in the lab I
19:58.2
20:02.1
actually use the microwave to boil my
samples and it’s real easy I can set the
20:02.1
20:06.5
timer I’ve got it actually programmed so
it doesn’t over boil I’ve got a special
20:06.5
20:12.0
phosphate setting on my microwave Thank
You GE for allowing me to program stuff
20:12.0
20:15.5
like that by the way that’s an
off-the-shelf use but it works great for
20:15.5
20:17.4
that
if you ever boil it in the microwave you
20:17.4
20:20.2
always want to add boiling chips I don’t
know if you’ve ever heard of
20:20.2
20:25.2
superheating a lot of times people will
get hurt because they’re trying to heat
20:25.2
20:29.8
up a cup of water and say a coffee cup
and they look at it and it’s not boiling
20:29.8
20:35.5
and they put a wooden spoon or something
in there and it just explodes it is
20:35.5
20:40.9
super hot and it has nothing to nucleate
on it has nothing to form those little
20:40.9
20:45.7
bubbles to start to boil and as soon as
something goes in there it just all
20:45.7
20:51.6
comes out so protect yourself use
boiling chips if you’re using the
20:51.6
20:57.1
microwave to supply your heat but we’re
now talking about the UV pen now Hawk is
20:57.1
21:02.2
probably the standard and I will have
them on my show notes page where you can
21:02.2
21:07.8
see the phosphate methods directly from
Hawk a link to that they are the
21:07.8
21:16.1
standard and they sell a kit that has a
UV pen in it now it works great it is
21:16.1
21:20.6
repeatable but you can only use it for
one test and normally when we’re running
21:20.6
21:25.3
tests we have multiple systems that were
running tests for so they then came up
21:25.3
21:29.2
with a splitter
well the splitter works great to run two
21:29.2
21:35.3
tests but take it from me you can’t
split the splitter without buying
21:35.3
21:40.1
equipment over again the transformer
can’t hold it not to say that I did that
21:40.1
21:44.5
but if I did do that learn from my
mistakes and don’t do that so you can
21:44.5
21:50.6
always split it once and that allows you
to do two now the transformer is bulky
21:50.6
21:54.7
it’s a little difficult you can put them
in a backpack or something like that but
21:54.7
21:59.7
it is bulky you’ve got to plug it in all
that stuff the reason I mention all this
21:59.7
22:06.8
is because several of you out there have
asked about portable alternatives and a
22:06.8
22:11.0
lot
of noise was created recently on some
22:11.0
22:16.0
blogs and some listservs about a
particular product called the SteriPEN
22:16.0
22:22.4
the SteriPEN was originally developed so
backpackers hikers could go out and they
22:22.4
22:28.2
can sterilize their water source so they
could drink it using this portable UV
22:28.2
22:34.7
pen very few things are invented for the
water treatment industry so the water
22:34.7
22:39.7
treatment industry has to go out in
other industries and figure out what we
22:39.7
22:47.1
can take from them to help us succeed
easier better faster and the SteriPEN
22:47.1
22:52.3
was one of those items now the items
that were mentioned on the listserv or
22:52.3
22:58.3
the blog was that the SteriPEN did not
work properly it wasn’t powerful enough
22:58.3
23:04.7
it had this issue it had that issue so I
thought rather than just reading
23:04.7
23:11.6
something I’m going to take the advice
that I just gave you and I created a
23:11.6
23:19.5
situation in my lab where I could test
for exactly what was going on with the
23:19.5
23:24.5
SteriPEN for those of you out there in
the scaling-up nation that are not
23:24.5
23:31.1
familiar with the recent posting and
various blogs and listservs about the
23:31.1
23:38.7
SteriPEN let me bring you up to speed so
again the SteriPEN is a pen that was
23:38.7
23:44.9
built to sterilize water when you were
out backpacking or hiking and people in
23:44.9
23:50.1
the water treatment community have found
that that has application for this
23:50.1
23:56.4
phosphate testing that we are talking
about in fact I have been using the
23:56.4
24:03.4
SteriPEN for at least 3 years now and I
have gotten some pretty good results
24:03.4
24:07.9
with it but if you read some of the
posts from other people they had not
24:07.9
24:13.1
gotten proper results with it so if
you’ve learned anything from listening
24:13.1
24:17.1
to me on the show you know I do not like
anecdote
24:17.1
24:22.0
information I enjoy hearing that you
like something but I need more
24:22.0
24:26.9
information than that I want to know how
you tested it how you verified so I
24:26.9
24:32.2
think Ronald Reagan was credited with
trust but verify I trust that it’s a
24:32.2
24:39.2
good test but I want to verify it so
here’s what I did I set up a known
24:39.2
24:46.8
quantity of PBT see for those of you
that care it’s phospho no butane tri
24:46.8
24:52.1
carboxylic acid for huge words for $1000
Alex please
24:52.1
25:01.4
so PBT see it is an organic phosphate
and I put a known quantity in some
25:01.4
25:07.6
deionized water and then I tested the
sample that I just made with different
25:07.6
25:13.1
methods to see if I could get a
repeatable result and here’s what I did
25:13.1
25:19.5
I ordered three of the SteriPEN
and by the way I’m using the new model
25:19.5
25:25.9
classic three and I order three pens so
I could do three different things with
25:25.9
25:31.4
them now the issue in the chat rooms
were that the light source was not
25:31.4
25:37.8
powerful enough in order to allow that
reaction to take place over the entire
25:37.8
25:42.4
time that that pen was on people said
that if they used the wrong types of
25:42.4
25:49.0
batteries then it would actually lose
its power through the on cycle so the
25:49.0
25:53.1
light would start out really bright and
then it would dim down so I decided to
25:53.1
25:58.1
test that and the reason I got three
pins is this is what I did the two types
25:58.1
26:04.1
of batteries that were in dispute were
alkaline batteries and lithium battery
26:04.1
26:10.1
so I got a pin for each one of those
batteries and then that third pin I
26:10.1
26:17.6
wanted to take batteries totally out of
the equation and what I did I took a six
26:17.6
26:25.0
volt adapter and I allowed the pin to
run off of six volts plugged into the
26:25.0
26:29.5
wall so that way batteries were totally
eliminated from
26:29.5
26:35.7
this pin I then went ahead and set up
three different tests actually I set up
26:35.7
26:40.6
four different tests I mentioned that
Hawk is the standard for testing so I
26:40.6
26:47.2
used that pin and that method exactly
the way that Hawk says that you need to
26:47.2
26:53.4
run that test and I ran all of those
tests and guess what within a very
26:53.4
27:01.2
slight margin of error I got the exact
same results so I wasn’t satisfied with
27:01.2
27:07.6
that I wanted repeatability so I did it
again so I actually did that about four
27:07.6
27:15.9
times and that proved to me that I did
not have an issue with batteries I did
27:15.9
27:22.2
not have an issue with not being able to
get a full digestion of all of the
27:22.2
27:27.0
organic phosphate in there so the pen
that I had been using for years I
27:27.0
27:32.5
verified that it indeed was working
properly and folks there in our test
27:32.5
27:37.6
kits that’s what we use we use those for
our phosphate testing and we also use
27:37.6
27:42.1
that for our a salt testing so I’m going
to give you some more information on the
27:42.1
27:48.9
SteriPEN in a few moments but I still
wasn’t satisfied I wanted to make sure
27:48.9
27:54.1
that if I started talking about this
issue and trust me this issue got pretty
27:54.1
27:58.6
heated on this listserv I wanted to make
sure that I was giving you some good
27:58.6
28:04.9
information so in addition to my tests
what I did is I reached out to some
28:04.9
28:10.6
people that I knew were using the
SteriPEN and I asked them to come on
28:10.6
28:17.5
scaling up to share their experiences
with you so let me share that with you
28:17.5
28:24.1
now scaled up nation I’m very excited to
introduce my second time lab partner
28:24.1
28:28.9
Chris golden of Taylor technologies how
are you Chris I’m doing great trace I’m
28:28.9
28:34.2
here with you how are you doing I am
doing wonderful and I gotta tell you I
28:34.2
28:37.7
got a lot of positive feedback from you
being on and I want to thank you for
28:37.7
28:42.5
coming back on so we can talk about
phosphate testing
28:42.5
28:49.2
very good so the whole show is on
phosphate and you so graciously offered
28:49.2
28:52.8
to come on the show I want to talk about
all the different tests that are out
28:52.8
28:57.3
there and I guess it doesn’t matter if
it’s this company or that company but
28:57.3
29:02.8
one of the biggest issues we all have
when we’re running phosphate test is
29:02.8
29:07.4
repeatability have you found that to be
true working with companies and your
29:07.4
29:12.5
experience oh absolutely
the repeatability was so key when I was
29:12.5
29:17.9
out there doing water treatment and I
remember back when I was doing a steel
29:17.9
29:22.7
mill and I used to go around to the
steel mill and and do the industrial
29:22.7
29:27.3
water and we had eighty million gallons
of effluent from a wastewater treatment
29:27.3
29:32.5
plant going through the steel mill and
something they did at the waste
29:32.5
29:35.4
treatment plant was take out the
phosphate from the water
29:35.4
29:40.2
well that phosphate was acted as the
natural corrosion inhibitor in the water
29:40.2
29:44.7
when they took it out the water was very
corrosive and they started having
29:44.7
29:50.0
problems with iron deposition throughout
the plant so we fed a low level of
29:50.0
29:55.2
phosphate we fed one part per million of
phosphate and a half apart per million
29:55.2
30:01.0
of zinc and I tested that two times a
week and I was very careful in getting
30:01.0
30:08.2
my samples letting it flush long enough
and I test for iron and phosphate and
30:08.2
30:12.9
zinc and I really was careful with my
technique so I got accurate readings
30:12.9
30:17.5
because they’re pretty low levels and
when I would go on vacation I come back
30:17.5
30:21.8
and the people I would do the service
for would look at me and shake their
30:21.8
30:25.7
head and said you went on vacation I
said well yeah I did how’d you know
30:25.7
30:30.8
well the phosphate and zinc and iron
numbers are all over the place it was
30:30.8
30:34.2
because the guy that took over for me
just didn’t practice really good
30:34.2
30:38.7
technique so repeat abilities certainly
way up there you want to trust your
30:38.7
30:43.6
results you’re gonna make adjustments to
your programs based on those results and
30:43.6
30:50.6
you need to have a good trust in your
test results so you said the gentleman
30:50.6
30:56.0
that replaced you on vacation his test
results were off because he
30:56.0
31:01.1
he didn’t have good technique so I am
leading that to believe that technique
31:01.1
31:05.9
is key when we’re talking about
repeatability oh absolutely you know in
31:05.9
31:12.0
the AWT meeting last year in Grand
Rapids I did a seminar on interferences
31:12.0
31:16.2
and if anybody was there they know that
the first interference I talked about
31:16.2
31:22.9
was us and our techniques and how before
we even start to do a method we can
31:22.9
31:26.6
affect the results of whether they’re
going to be accurate repeatable well
31:26.6
31:32.4
let’s just get right into it one of the
worst tests in my opinion for
31:32.4
31:38.5
repeatability is the organic phosphate
test or the organophosphate test which
31:38.5
31:41.3
is an incorrect term but that’s okay
well go ahead and say that cuz a lot of
31:41.3
31:46.5
people say that I know but I know that
you’ve done a lot of work with that test
31:46.5
31:52.9
your Rd has done a lot of research and
you got some things to share with us
31:52.9
31:58.1
regarding technique and the organic
phosphate test yes and this all started
31:58.1
32:01.3
back a few years ago when we were
developing our color imager what our
32:01.3
32:07.7
chemists did in R&D and we’ve got eight
degreed chemists in our R&D that I am
32:07.7
32:13.0
super super proud of these are some
bright minds and what they did was they
32:13.0
32:17.0
took a look at standard practices for
how to do the different tests and they
32:17.0
32:20.5
basically took it all the way down to
the concrete and build it all the way
32:20.5
32:26.4
back up to see how they could possibly
improve some of the methods and the
32:26.4
32:30.2
organophosphate method was one of the
ones that I don’t know if I told you
32:30.2
32:34.4
this story before but when I was up in
my office and we’re developing to color
32:34.4
32:38.0
in her and the methods my phone would
ring and I’d look at it and the ID would
32:38.0
32:42.9
say it’s R&D and trace I always got
excited because these guys had some
32:42.9
32:46.8
great ideas and when they found him and
proved them they’d call me up and say
32:46.8
32:50.9
you got to come down you got it you got
to see this well one of those calls was
32:50.9
32:54.9
on the organophosphate test when he
found the SteriPEN
32:54.9
32:59.2
and so I go down there and they show me
said well the neatest thing about this
32:59.2
33:07.4
is we can cut down the digestion time
from 10 minutes to 3 minutes and I was
33:07.4
33:11.3
like wow they said would that be a value
your people in the field someone well
33:11.3
33:15.6
heck yet plus you don’t have to plug it
in and you don’t have to carry around a
33:15.6
33:20.6
heavy transformer and you don’t have to
replace those UV lamps so yeah I was
33:20.6
33:27.2
excited and they had proven to me the
repeatability of UT’s that SteriPEN for
33:27.2
33:32.2
the digestion x’ and again I proved it
to myself out in the field that you get
33:32.2
33:37.6
repeatability but the key is that and
some people that use the SteriPEN don’t
33:37.6
33:42.3
know that you need to use the lithium
hydride batteries you can’t just use the
33:42.3
33:47.0
alkaline batteries the lamp is actually
with this configuration and I think you
33:47.0
33:51.7
talked with the guy from SteriPEN but
it’s its design that it gives off I
33:51.7
33:57.5
guess more heat more radiation to cook
the sample more quickly I know you and I
33:57.5
34:03.1
know of Taylor through you and is it
safe to say that R&D and Taylor is
34:03.1
34:09.8
relatively conservative no all right
they’re super conservative conservative
34:09.8
34:17.4
and the last two years before our collar
imager came out it was already built it
34:17.4
34:22.2
was ready to go the methods just weren’t
there they took two years on the method
34:22.2
34:27.2
trace and I was like grinding my teeth
please give me my color Rimmer pleased
34:27.2
34:32.6
but they wanted to prove and and really
make sure all those methods were
34:32.6
34:37.8
airtight and they are and they are and
if you’ll notice they’re quite a few of
34:37.8
34:45.4
the test procedures like iron that we
cut down on the wait time for the
34:45.4
34:50.0
reading for the method and they wanted
to prove themselves that they could
34:50.0
34:54.5
actually wait that long so if they’ve
put out a test they’ve done it hundreds
34:54.5
34:58.7
of times not just a couple of times it’s
done hundreds of times to prove it to
34:58.7
35:03.4
themselves so when we talk about
repeatability when the procedure came
35:03.4
35:10.3
out from your Rd they were able to use
the organophosphate method using the
35:10.3
35:16.2
SteriPEN using what they recommended and
get those results within a very slight
35:16.2
35:21.4
margin of error each and every time sure
and if you take a look at our test
35:21.4
35:25.4
procedure the instruction
they did a really great job of rightness
35:25.4
35:30.0
talk about how to do the procedure what
the method is what the interferences are
35:30.0
35:35.5
estimated the detection limit so on this
organophosphate test the estimated
35:35.5
35:41.9
detection limit is 0.2 ppm so you’ve got
a point 2 ppm as phosphate and the
35:41.9
35:47.1
precision is listed as used in a single
lot of reagent and a 1 point 5 ppm
35:47.1
35:52.1
phosphate standard an individual analyst
obtained a standard deviation of plus or
35:52.1
35:59.3
minus 0.1 ppm so they state their
results on each one of the instructions
35:59.3
36:04.4
that those are the results that they got
well again folks you know don’t take our
36:04.4
36:09.5
word for it you can do your own test
back in your own lab or in your own
36:09.5
36:15.0
kitchen or wherever it is that you do
your test but Chris I want to thank you
36:15.0
36:20.8
for coming on letting us know that
Taylor has done extensive research with
36:20.8
36:26.6
this method and I think the bottom line
is is it doesn’t matter which tests you
36:26.6
36:31.2
use it matters how you use it and you
have to be accurate and you have to be
36:31.2
36:35.9
repeatable it’s all about technique it
is all about technique and the other
36:35.9
36:42.7
thing is don’t deviate from the method
instructions because the pairing of that
36:42.7
36:48.4
SteriPEN is carefully done with with our
glassware with the 91 98 and it’s
36:48.4
36:52.1
important that let’s let’s say you’re
gonna do it in a beaker if you’re gonna
36:52.1
36:56.2
do this in a beaker 150 milliliter
beaker and you put a sample in there
36:56.2
37:01.1
it’s kind of low and flat and you put
this there a pen in there it’s quite a
37:01.1
37:08.0
bit of difference of contact then when
you put it in one of those 91 98 sample
37:08.0
37:12.3
cells the 25 MLS ample cells from Taylor
you’re gonna notice that there’s more
37:12.3
37:18.8
water surrounding the lamp than it is in
a beaker so that’s another area of put
37:18.8
37:23.1
it under technique is read the
instructions and use the glassware
37:23.1
37:27.8
that’s recommended that’s a great point
because if it’s not getting in contact
37:27.8
37:32.3
with it it’s not repeatable as they did
it in the lab Chris thanks so much for
37:32.3
37:35.8
coming on and sharing some more insight
on the organic
37:35.8
37:40.5
phosphate test oh you got a trace
anything you need let me know folks you
37:40.5
37:45.5
know I love to interview people that
know more than I do and folks that is
37:45.5
37:51.2
not hard to find well that is this next
guest and he comes straight from
37:51.2
37:56.9
SteriPEN so we are going to ask the
questions we all want to know about this
37:56.9
38:02.1
device from somebody who has helped
develop it well my next lab partner is
38:02.1
38:07.6
Ainsworth Koehler and he knows
everything there is to know about the
38:07.6
38:12.6
SteriPEN so instead of me telling you
all the things I think I know about the
38:12.6
38:18.3
SteriPEN we are bringing in the big guns
and he’s worth how are you Oh clay we’ll
38:18.3
38:22.0
try so hope you’re doing great
absolutely really appreciate you coming
38:22.0
38:25.4
on the show
the scaling up nation is very confused
38:25.4
38:31.4
about the SteriPEN so I know you can
answer all the questions we have about
38:31.4
38:36.2
the SteriPEN but I want to start off if
somebody’s listing out there and they
38:36.2
38:43.6
have never heard of or seen the SteriPEN
what the heck is it sure the SteriPEN is
38:43.6
38:48.2
a handheld water purifier that you can
take with you anywhere in the world and
38:48.2
38:53.7
it purifies the water so you can drink
it and be confident that you won’t get
38:53.7
38:59.3
sick so it was developed for an industry
outside of the industry of course that
38:59.3
39:03.1
we’re talking about which is testing for
phosphates and Hazel’s and such like
39:03.1
39:08.8
that correct the SteriPEN is aimed
towards microbiological organisms such
39:08.8
39:14.3
as viruses bacteria and protozoans it’s
not really for any metals or chemicals
39:14.3
39:19.5
or anything like that well as you know
through our conversations we water
39:19.5
39:24.3
treaters have found a different use for
it we have several tests and I just
39:24.3
39:29.7
mentioned them phosphates and A’s all’s
that require ultraviolet digestion and
39:29.7
39:34.4
the method that we have now requires
this I think it’s about a forty eight
39:34.4
39:39.1
pound transformer that we have to lug
upstairs with us and then plug into a
39:39.1
39:43.9
wall and then get our digestion done off
that well several years ago somebody
39:43.9
39:50.4
told me about the SteriPEN woodwork
or that and I’ve been using those for
39:50.4
39:53.9
years
is there any reason from your
39:53.9
39:58.6
development of this pin that you see
that it would not work for that purpose
39:58.6
40:02.1
firstly I’d have to stay at this time
I’d probably have to do a little more
40:02.1
40:06.2
research to give you a better answer
we’ve only tested the SteriPEN for
40:06.2
40:11.2
microbiological organisms but if I could
get some lab research I’d be able to
40:11.2
40:14.7
help you better on that one fair enough
so the attorneys are in the room with
40:14.7
40:21.2
you I totally understand sure so let me
let me ask it this way if if we have a
40:21.2
40:28.4
UV light a and it does a particular job
and we have UV light B is there any
40:28.4
40:33.8
reason it can’t do the same job so long
as they output the same amount of energy
40:33.8
40:40.3
over a given amount of time or a
comparable output and are in a similar
40:40.3
40:45.3
wavelength then I don’t see why not and
what is the wavelength that comes out of
40:45.3
40:54.0
the SteriPEN it is 254 nanometers or UVC
you and I talking together and me
40:54.0
40:58.5
learning more about the SteriPEN and how
I could better use it for this use I
40:58.5
41:05.5
thought I understood how the actual unit
worked I thought it took the for 1.5
41:05.5
41:11.4
double-a batteries which is 6 volts and
it stepped it down to something like 4
41:11.4
41:15.9
and a half and you said well it actually
does something with stepping but you’re
41:15.9
41:19.3
going the wrong direction and do you
mind sharing with a scale it up nation
41:19.3
41:27.3
what you taught me sure so it does take
6 volts of battery voltage but the
41:27.3
41:34.9
SteriPEN lamp does require over a
thousand volts to light up and 300 volts
41:34.9
41:41.2
just to maintain the output needed to
safely purify your water so what we have
41:41.2
41:47.6
is some circuitry around the light bulb
called a ballast and we also have sort
41:47.6
41:53.2
of a boost converter which takes
whatever the battery voltage is whether
41:53.2
41:59.5
that be a low battery will pretend about
4 volts or a fully charged battery that
41:59.5
42:03.2
has
volts and it converts that to a voltage
42:03.2
42:09.0
that we know that the bow circuitry
needs to sufficiently power that multi
42:09.0
42:14.3
hundred volt lamp the previous
generations of SteriPEN x’ that being
42:14.3
42:21.1
the classic or the traveler required a
stronger battery such as the lithium
42:21.1
42:26.6
chemistry battery in order to power the
lamp so any work we’ve had our fair
42:26.6
42:32.9
share of comments on the association of
water technologies listserv where people
42:32.9
42:37.3
are saying they love these units they
work great and others say they don’t
42:37.3
42:41.7
work and the reoccurring reason that
they say they don’t work for this
42:41.7
42:48.7
specific test is that the batteries
don’t last long enough and the lamp is
42:48.7
42:53.9
not strong enough through the entire
three minute period or one-minute period
42:53.9
42:58.9
how long is the the unit on for I can’t
remember for a full liter dose it’s 90
42:58.9
43:03.7
seconds so during that 90 seconds if the
batteries are low you’re not going to
43:03.7
43:09.3
get the full power of the lamp what do
you say to that if the batteries are low
43:09.3
43:15.1
but not discharged you will get the full
power output of the lamp however if the
43:15.1
43:20.2
batteries have discharged to a point
where their strength is completely gone
43:20.2
43:25.6
then you’ll get nothing from the lamp in
other words there is no dimming from the
43:25.6
43:29.7
lamp like you would observe from an
incandescent light bulb and a flashlight
43:29.7
43:35.2
it’s either the full output or nothing
at all so there you go so that right
43:35.2
43:40.0
there that statement definitively
answers that what they were saying on
43:40.0
43:45.7
the listserv is completely false I would
say it’s people diagnosing the pen the
43:45.7
43:50.2
best they can given the evidence they
have on hand the SteriPEN is a sort of
43:50.2
43:56.1
an enclosed unit and it’s hard to
diagnose so most people like to just go
43:56.1
44:02.1
to the default diagnosis of etes
batteries or quote does not work the
44:02.1
44:09.8
Steyr pen doesn’t eat batteries it’ll
work as advertised and if not then your
44:09.8
44:13.3
customers are welcome to call us up and
discuss it with us
44:13.3
44:17.0
you and I met through that very thing
and I got to tell you you’ve got great
44:17.0
44:22.3
customer service and you have told me
great wealth of information about the
44:22.3
44:26.8
pin so you guys really deliver what you
promised oh I’m glad your faith yep yeah
44:26.8
44:29.8
we’re I mean we’re always there to help
our customers I mean we do of course
44:29.8
44:35.0
have a warranty policy but for the most
part were pretty loosey-goosey so long
44:35.0
44:38.6
as the cut we’ve seen the customers that
treat the SteriPEN with us all right so
44:38.6
44:42.9
you’re talking about either alkaline
batteries or our lithium batteries so
44:42.9
44:46.6
let’s talk a little bit about that so I
know you’ve got a couple of different
44:46.6
44:50.5
units I want to say that the people in
the scaling up nation primarily that are
44:50.5
44:55.2
using the SteriPEN are used either using
the original classic or the third
44:55.2
45:00.5
version of the classic sure those are
our two most popular selling models so
45:00.5
45:05.5
how do they work based on what type of
batteries we put in there regardless of
45:05.5
45:10.2
battery it’s going to take the energy of
that battery the electrical energy and
45:10.2
45:16.6
output it as photonic energy but again
it depends on the chemistry of battery
45:16.6
45:21.6
and how well they can hold up to the
SteriPEN for example in the classic
45:21.6
45:26.8
alkaline batteries even though they are
double-a batteries even though they are
45:26.8
45:32.5
1.5 volts the chemistry inside the
batteries just don’t make them a strong
45:32.5
45:36.5
enough battery for a high power device
such as the SteriPEN they’re more
45:36.5
45:41.6
appropriate for devices like your kids
toys like remote-control cars or you
45:41.6
45:47.0
know game system but the lithium battery
given it’s chemistry can handle higher
45:47.0
45:51.5
power applications like the SteriPEN now
what is the difference between the
45:51.5
45:56.4
classic and the classic three the
classic three is I’ll put it abstractly
45:56.4
46:00.5
you know how cars sort of have like new
model years and they add new features
46:00.5
46:04.5
the engineers learn a little more make
the product better yeah and then you
46:04.5
46:08.8
have to go out and buy another car yeah
yeah so that’s sort of the same of the
46:08.8
46:12.3
SteriPEN I mean if you have a classic
and it’s working for you it’s going to
46:12.3
46:19.0
keep you safe so the classic three is
sort of like a new model year car except
46:19.0
46:22.7
for the SteriPEN
in this case it has a more efficient
46:22.7
46:29.1
circuit and improved code so that it can
now accept alkaline batteries as well as
46:29.1
46:33.0
lithium batteries but unfortunately
without lines you’re only getting it of
46:33.0
46:38.8
third of the doses you would get with a
lithium batteries we changed the LED
46:38.8
46:44.2
indicator scheme to three LEDs instead
of that one LED coming out of the
46:44.2
46:49.9
classics window so that we could
accommodate for a higher ambient light
46:49.9
46:54.2
outside to make it easier to discern
what’s going on with the indicator and
46:54.2
46:58.1
also to help with people who have
difficulty discerning between red and
46:58.1
47:04.1
green so now customers can look at the
position of the LED on the classic three
47:04.1
47:10.0
to understand what the status is versus
doing your best with just a great brink
47:10.0
47:13.8
blinking light on the classic I
appreciate that after using it for years
47:13.8
47:19.3
I’ll tell ya I’m glad oh you can’t see a
red agreeing that well it’s just
47:19.3
47:23.7
difficult it’s I’ve never had an issue
we have we probably have it up out of
47:23.7
47:28.9
half a dozen of the classics in use and
I just bought three of the classic
47:28.9
47:33.0
threes to do these experiments and it
was much easier to tell what it was
47:33.0
47:38.6
trying to tell me oh I’m so glad for
that we also changed the cap from its
47:38.6
47:42.8
original conical shape and the classic
in that this will just twist off rather
47:42.8
47:47.6
than the classic where you have to grab
the base of the SteriPEN and the lamp
47:47.6
47:53.0
cover and pull them apart some customers
were concerned that the amount of
47:53.0
47:57.0
strength needed to pull those two pieces
apart could damage the lamp and just
47:57.0
48:01.3
some people had difficulty pulling apart
in general so we made that easier and
48:01.3
48:05.4
the last improvement with a classic
three over the classic is we made it so
48:05.4
48:09.5
you can actually start the pen inside
the water rather than having to start it
48:09.5
48:14.4
outside of the water and that is a huge
improvement based on how we use it I
48:14.4
48:21.5
love that you have one step less what is
the expected life out of the classic in
48:21.5
48:25.9
the classic three this depends on
battery and I’ll start with a classic
48:25.9
48:33.8
now the classic can only accept lithium
or nickel metal hydride batteries nickel
48:33.8
48:36.2
metal high
dried being rechargeable batteries and
48:36.2
48:42.7
with a set of lithium you can expect a
hundred litres of water and depending on
48:42.7
48:49.3
the brand in the model of rechargeable
battery you can expect about 80 litres
48:49.3
48:54.7
all right since we are using this
off-label and the way it was developed
48:54.7
48:59.8
you hit the button and it’s ready to go
and make clean to sterilize one liter of
48:59.8
49:03.9
water we’re not necessarily using one
liter of water we’re using it for one
49:03.9
49:08.4
test so when we hit that button for one
test and we’re using lithium batteries
49:08.4
49:12.2
we should be able to expect to get 100
tests out of that am I am I getting that
49:12.2
49:17.9
correct yep that sounds correct alright
continuing with the classic three given
49:17.9
49:23.5
the improved circuitry and the improved
code you can now use alkaline batteries
49:23.5
49:29.2
which will give you 50 litres of water
with lithium’s now you can get a hundred
49:29.2
49:35.1
and fifty liters of water and depending
on the brand and model of nickel metal
49:35.1
49:39.1
hydride or a chargeable battery you can
get expect about a hundred liters of
49:39.1
49:45.4
purified water or in your cases a
hundred uses awesome so next question is
49:45.4
49:50.5
should people be wearing UV eye
protection when they’re using these
49:50.5
49:56.9
devices oh no that’s not necessary at
all the SteriPEN has an important safety
49:56.9
50:02.3
feature called the water sensor now to
dispel any misconception ahead of time
50:02.3
50:07.5
the water sensor does not detect the
purity of water it only detects the
50:07.5
50:13.1
presence or lack of water and that is it
and what the water sensor does is to
50:13.1
50:18.3
ensure that the lamp is not illuminated
outside of the safe confines of water
50:18.3
50:24.7
when the SteriPEN is in water and emits
the UV photons it’ll bounce off the air
50:24.7
50:29.8
water interface of the volume of water
and stay in that volume of water or
50:29.8
50:35.8
it’ll be absorbed or bounced off the
walls of the container of the water so
50:35.8
50:40.4
in effect I’m a very very very
negligible amount of UV light escapes
50:40.4
50:45.8
but nowhere near the amount that could
cause any skin or eye damage
50:45.8
50:50.8
this has been very informative I think
for once you’ve put to bed what we’ve
50:50.8
50:56.1
been talking about for years on this
listserv so I really want to thank you
50:56.1
51:01.6
for coming on scaling up and educating
the entire scaling up nation I’m glad to
51:01.6
51:06.8
keep everyone informed nation if you
don’t take away anything else from
51:06.8
51:14.4
today’s show I want it to be this I want
you to keep your ears open I want you to
51:14.4
51:21.5
read everything you can about what you
do on a regular basis and trust me every
51:21.5
51:28.0
water treat are out there has an opinion
about how you do it what you use you
51:28.0
51:32.3
name it they have an opinion about it
there’s a metaphor for that but I’ve got
51:32.3
51:36.3
a clean lyric show and I’m not going to
go into that I think you all know what
51:36.3
51:44.0
it is it’s great to hear what those
opinions are but that’s all they are
51:44.0
51:50.8
to you your job the way I see it is to
do exactly what I did take all that
51:50.8
51:58.4
information but now do something that
allows you to believe in what you’re
51:58.4
52:03.6
doing now you have to be open because
there’s a possibility you could have
52:03.6
52:07.3
been doing something for a very long
time and now that you’ve tested it you
52:07.3
52:12.5
might find that it’s wrong and if you
can’t accept the fact that that
52:12.5
52:18.6
particular item might not be done
correctly and you need to change it well
52:18.6
52:22.7
you’re gonna have some issues with that
and if that is the case maybe this isn’t
52:22.7
52:29.3
the industry for you but if you are
willing to take new ideas and new
52:29.3
52:35.3
information and then test them so it
makes sense to you and now you’ve
52:35.3
52:40.9
verified what somebody told you so you
know it’s right you can talk to other
52:40.9
52:46.2
people and tell them exactly what you
did to prove that you are not only going
52:46.2
52:52.9
to be a better water treater you are
going to be a better advocate for this
52:52.9
52:59.1
industry so folks just like what I did I
was curious that if this SteriPEN that I
52:59.1
53:05.0
was using was working properly I’ve been
using it for three years now everybody
53:05.0
53:09.8
on my team has been using it but were we
making a mistake based on all these
53:09.8
53:15.4
opinions well I didn’t know and I went
ahead and I did the testing the way I
53:15.4
53:21.3
described earlier and I indeed I
verified that what we were doing was
53:21.3
53:25.7
correct now here’s a couple of things
that I’ve learned in my research the
53:25.7
53:31.4
original SteriPEN works great and that’s
what we were using for the longest time
53:31.4
53:38.7
but as Ainsworth explained to us there
are some improvements with the third
53:38.7
53:44.7
generation they call it the classic
three that make it a lot easier in the
53:44.7
53:52.4
field so we have actually switched to
the SteriPEN three version one of the
53:52.4
53:58.1
items that it does that makes it so much
easier is you can cycle the pin which
53:58.1
54:04.1
means you can turn it back on after it’s
timed out without drying off the probes
54:04.1
54:09.1
so you don’t have to take it out of the
water and then stick it back in that is
54:09.1
54:14.0
a huge time saver and it’s also the
point in time when you lift it out where
54:14.0
54:18.9
you accidentally tip your sample over so
you’re totally eliminating that it also
54:18.9
54:24.3
works better with alkaline batteries
just as we learned on this show it will
54:24.3
54:30.8
work with alkaline batteries but you’re
not going to get as many tests so next
54:30.8
54:33.8
time you go to wherever you buy
batteries you’re gonna see how expensive
54:33.8
54:39.0
those lithium batteries are but trust me
even though they are more expensive
54:39.0
54:43.9
they’re going to work better in the
device and they’re going to work longer
54:43.9
54:48.4
and that’s really what I mean by better
so you don’t need to throw away a bunch
54:48.4
54:53.4
of batteries you can use as least as you
can and get the most use out of them
54:53.4
55:00.1
when you’re doing that and a final tip
is make sure you bring extra batteries
55:00.1
55:05.6
don’t just bring a pin because when that
sucker dies you can’t run any more tests
55:05.6
55:11.5
so always have at least one set of
batteries with you so if something does
55:11.5
55:17.1
happen you can still run your tests
we’ve had some issues with the unit’s
55:17.1
55:21.8
retaining moisture so we keep them in a
test kit so you need to make sure that
55:21.8
55:28.0
the unit’s do stay dry because of course
they’re dipped down into water so if you
55:28.0
55:34.2
can dry those off and keep them into a
nice dry place by the way when that
55:34.2
55:38.0
happened it just happened once and what
we did we’ve got a little vacuum
55:38.0
55:42.7
desiccants device here and we just drew
a vacuum put it in the desiccant
55:42.7
55:47.0
material and it worked fine to the next
day so I don’t think that’s a big issue
55:47.0
55:53.4
but I just want to share what I learned
during our experiments with the SteriPEN
55:53.4
55:59.4
scaling up nation I want to make it as
easy as possible for you to know what
55:59.4
56:04.4
you need to get in order to make it
easier for you to run your organic
56:04.4
56:12.7
phosphate and asel testing in the field
so I have created a video of me unboxing
56:12.7
56:17.0
everything that you need in order to run
those tests if you want to see that
56:17.0
56:22.8
video go to scaling-up
h2o comm a forward slash pin video one
56:22.8
56:28.2
word and you will see me unbox three
products now the three products that you
56:28.2
56:34.9
are going to need are of course the
SteriPEN the SteriPEN is about $69 and
56:34.9
56:39.3
you can get that from my Amazon
affiliate link by going to scaling up
56:39.3
56:44.6
h2o comm Ford / SteriPEN the other thing
that you’re going to need are some good
56:44.6
56:49.4
high quality lithium batteries I have an
affiliate site for those that is scaling
56:49.4
56:55.1
up h2o comm Ford / batteries that’s
going to give you eight energizer
56:55.1
56:59.9
lithium batteries and the reason that
eight is so good is because it gives you
56:59.9
57:04.1
a spare set because I promise your
batteries will run out when it is the
57:04.1
57:08.8
most inconvenient time for that to
happen that’s just how it works the last
57:08.8
57:12.9
thing you’re going to need is a vial for
your sample to go into and for the
57:12.9
57:17.0
SteriPEN to be able to sit straight up
and down in and to get that you’re going
57:17.0
57:23.6
to go to scaling up h2o
calm /vy OVI al those are the things
57:23.6
57:30.7
that you need and I have unboxed those
on that video which is pin video and
57:30.7
57:36.9
that’s scaling up h2o comm Ford / pin
video I did one more video for you and I
57:36.9
57:42.0
showed you how I run the test and the
test that I’m running is the organic
57:42.0
57:46.7
phosphate test there’s a video up there
for that so if you want to see that that
57:46.7
57:55.8
is scaling up h2o comm pin test one word
scaling up h2o comm pen test well as I
57:55.8
57:59.6
mentioned in the beginning of the show
we’ve got a lot of things coming up as
57:59.6
58:05.3
water treaters we have the association
of water technologies convention coming
58:05.3
58:12.5
up in Orlando September 26 through 29th
so Orlando Florida is a great place to
58:12.5
58:16.8
go in in folks if you’ve never been to
an association of Water Technologies
58:16.8
58:22.0
convention you’re missing out there’s a
lot of information that’s shared there
58:22.0
58:28.2
but if you ever plan to buy anything in
the water treatment community this is
58:28.2
58:35.4
your one-stop shop to visit every single
vendor that you would ever need to run a
58:35.4
58:42.5
water treatment territory or business
and as a bonus I’m going to be there so
58:42.5
58:47.5
come up to me make sure you come out and
say I’m a member of the scaling up
58:47.5
58:52.4
nation I’m gonna have scaling up buttons
as I did last year I got a lot of
58:52.4
58:57.8
compliments on that they all means come
up ask me a for a button and to get the
58:57.8
59:01.6
convention started off right because I
know there’s a lot of new people that
59:01.6
59:04.7
listen to the show and you might be
coming to the convention for the first
59:04.7
59:09.5
time and that can be very intimidating
so here’s what I want to do to help
59:09.5
59:13.4
everybody out we did this last year and
the people that came had a fantastic
59:13.4
59:19.2
time and they wrote me and told me that
because they did what I’m getting ready
59:19.2
59:24.5
to tell you they had a better experience
at the convention they were able to go
59:24.5
59:30.0
back with information and immediately
put it in to use
59:30.0
59:36.5
and several of them said their boss
commented on how well they used that
59:36.5
59:41.3
information and their boss was on the
fence originally about should they send
59:41.3
59:45.9
them to this function or not but when
they came back and they saw how diligent
59:45.9
59:50.5
they were and putting all this stuff
into play they are absolutely going this
59:50.5
59:55.9
year so what am I talking about well
last year I did a meet-up I did it very
59:55.9
59:59.6
early in the morning and I think some
people were sleeping so we’re gonna do
59:59.6
1:00:04.9
it a little bit later this time so on
Thursday morning at 10:00 a.m.
1:00:04.9
1:00:10.5
immediately following the keynote
speaker we are going to meet up in the
1:00:10.5
1:00:15.7
chillers lounge right in the exhibit
hall gonna be a really quick meeting you
1:00:15.7
1:00:20.0
guys can meet each other I can meet you
you can get your scaling-up pen but
1:00:20.0
1:00:24.3
here’s what I want you to do I want you
to talk about what is the one thing that
1:00:24.3
1:00:29.0
you want to get out of this convention
you get enough people talking about the
1:00:29.0
1:00:32.0
one things you’re probably gonna have
more than one thing that you want to get
1:00:32.0
1:00:36.1
out of the convention because of that
conversation but people will help you
1:00:36.1
1:00:39.5
find it they’re gonna talk to a certain
vendor and they’re going to say hey I
1:00:39.5
1:00:43.7
remember George wanted to find out about
that they’re gonna go find George
1:00:43.7
1:00:48.1
they’re going to bring them and
introduce them to that vendor so nobody
1:00:48.1
1:00:53.5
is going to the AWT convention alone we
are all part of the scaling up nation
1:00:53.5
1:00:56.9
and we’re going to meet up to talk about
that at 10 a.m.
1:00:56.9
1:01:01.6
immediately after the keynote speaker so
the keynote speaker runs 10 minutes late
1:01:01.6
1:01:06.4
it’s gonna be at 10:10 just keep that in
mind but I will be there and I hope to
1:01:06.4
1:01:11.5
see you there as well there are also a
couple of other opportunities for you to
1:01:11.5
1:01:15.9
see me there are lots of people to see
but I want to meet you especially
1:01:15.9
1:01:21.2
so on Friday between 9:00 and 10:30
I’m gonna be with my good friend Russel
1:01:21.2
1:01:28.7
basket of tower water and he is going to
share his experiences with what happened
1:01:28.7
1:01:35.0
with Legionella in New York that’s where
Russ’s business is so imagine if your
1:01:35.0
1:01:41.0
business changed overnight in the blink
of an eye because that’s what happened
1:01:41.0
1:01:43.6
to him
there were people that got
1:01:43.6
1:01:48.4
and died unfortunately in the Bronx and
then the municipalities got together and
1:01:48.4
1:01:55.6
they said we are going to change the
laws in regards to Legionella and he had
1:01:55.6
1:02:01.7
to totally redefine how he did business
he’s going to be talking about that and
1:02:01.7
1:02:07.0
the message there is what can you do to
get prepared for that so you don’t have
1:02:07.0
1:02:13.2
to suffer what he suffered through Russ
is graciously sharing his story so we
1:02:13.2
1:02:19.9
can learn from it and then on Saturday
between 8 a.m. and 9:30 I’m presenting
1:02:19.9
1:02:24.9
with my friend Nathan Hardy and we’re
going to be talking about filming amines
1:02:24.9
1:02:29.4
as you know there’s a lot of information
out there about filming and means and
1:02:29.4
1:02:36.5
what I did I did an experiment just like
what I did for this SteriPEN we took a
1:02:36.5
1:02:42.1
building system that was fine and then
we removed and this was a closed-loop
1:02:42.1
1:02:45.9
system by the way we removed the
treatment that was in there that we’ve
1:02:45.9
1:02:53.2
got great data for at least five years
on and then we put the amine in the
1:02:53.2
1:02:57.9
system and that’s what you’re going to
learn about what I found by doing that
1:02:57.9
1:03:03.1
so I hope you enjoy that presentation as
you know I’ve got some evidence on what
1:03:03.1
1:03:07.7
I found and I also have some interesting
techniques that I discovered as I was
1:03:07.7
1:03:12.3
doing that so I’m really looking forward
to bringing that to you of course you
1:03:12.3
1:03:17.7
all know that I look forward to bringing
scaling-up to you each and every time
1:03:17.7
1:03:22.5
that we get together the only way that I
know what to talk about if folks I would
1:03:22.5
1:03:28.0
not have a show today I spent an hour
talking about phosphate I would think
1:03:28.0
1:03:33.0
that that would bore anybody but I’ve
gotten more questions on phosphate than
1:03:33.0
1:03:39.3
any other topic so that’s why I did what
I did it’s because of you the listeners
1:03:39.3
1:03:43.5
out there in the scaling-up nation so
please keep those things coming and as
1:03:43.5
1:03:48.1
always if you know a water treat are out
there and they don’t know about the
1:03:48.1
1:03:52.6
scaling up podcast please spread the
word let them know all the great things
1:03:52.6
1:03:56.2
that you’re learning from scaling
and folks I can’t wait to talk to you
1:03:56.2
1:04:02.3
next time on scaling up
1:04:02.3
1:04:04.4