The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.0
0:13.1
welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
for the entire water treatment industry
0:13.1
0:17.5
where we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so
we don’t Scale UP! our systems
0:17.5
0:22.2
hello Scaling UP! Nation Trace Blackmore
here and today’s show we’re going to be
0:22.2
0:28.8
talking to an individual that knows
equipment that can help us go home at
0:28.8
0:35.9
night we all know that if there were not
those processors and pumps and all those
0:35.9
0:40.8
things that are hung on the wall we
could not go home because we would be
0:40.8
0:47.6
the ones that would be delivering that
product on a 24/7 basis so I think it
0:47.6
0:53.4
just makes sense for us to have
individuals on this show who are experts
0:53.4
0:59.6
in that area so we can learn what some
common mistakes are and what some tips
0:59.6
1:06.5
and tricks are that can help us in our
day to day so we can do what we do
1:06.5
1:13.1
better and the only reason I know that
this is something that you all want out
1:13.1
1:17.4
there in the Scaling UP! Nation because
you write in and you tell me what it is
1:17.4
1:22.7
you want me to talk about on the show I
know you are sick of hearing me say this
1:22.7
1:29.4
but folks the only way I can continue
this show is if you allow me to get more
1:29.4
1:34.3
questions from your brains and the only
way that we’re going to do that is for
1:34.3
1:40.0
you going to scalinguph2o.com and
either leaving me a voicemail straight
1:40.0
1:45.8
on the website or you can leave me a
show idea email straight from the
1:45.8
1:51.9
website and I will get that and I know
what you want me to talk about where our
1:51.9
1:57.9
guest today is Laith Charles of Pulsafeeder.
Laith and I met though the Association of Water Technologies
1:57.9
2:02.5
technical training and it was actually
the fundamentals and applications
2:02.5
2:08.9
training he and a couple of his cohorts
there at Pulsafeeder attended that class
2:08.9
2:16.4
and they had a really good perspective
on the equipment side but what that did
2:16.4
2:20.7
that gave them a better perspective on
the user
2:20.7
2:23.9
side and they were asking some great
questions and they brought a lot of
2:23.9
2:28.8
great dialogue and you might not know
this but Pulsafeeder is one of the four
2:28.8
2:35.3
companies that helps us every year
through the demonstration portion of the
2:35.3
2:40.2
fundamentals and applications training
that what we do is we break up everybody
2:40.2
2:46.6
into four different teams if you will
and they get to put hands on the
2:46.6
2:51.3
equipment they get to ask questions
normally people like lathe have certain
2:51.3
2:55.7
troubleshooting items that they want you
to work through and they will guide you
2:55.7
3:00.6
through the process tom tinny of
lakewood he gets his multimeter out and
3:00.6
3:07.3
he shows you exactly how to figure out
if a probe is good or bad the fine folks
3:07.3
3:12.7
at Wahl Kim Laurie McPherson she makes
sure that you understand everything that
3:12.7
3:18.1
you need to know about probes and of
course Chris Morris and John Shaw over
3:18.1
3:21.6
to Vantage controls they’re the other
people that round out before they do a
3:21.6
3:25.7
great job to make sure that you
understand everything that you need to
3:25.7
3:30.2
know about that equipment and honestly
they all do that and they do that
3:30.2
3:34.5
because they want to help the industry
they do that because they want to help
3:34.5
3:40.8
you they do that so you know that you
can call them if you ever need one of
3:40.8
3:46.0
those pieces of equipment let’s not fool
anybody but because they are helping you
3:46.0
3:51.2
you want to call them you want to use
them as one of your vendors because
3:51.2
3:57.5
they’re allowing you to be a better
water treater so that is how I met lathe
3:57.5
4:01.4
Charles and I gotta tell you he is an
impressive guy he’s a young guy
4:01.4
4:04.7
of course at most everybody and the
scale in our nation is young compared to
4:04.7
4:10.1
me but that being said that doesn’t stop
him when he wants to learn something he
4:10.1
4:14.0
dives right in and he definitely did
that with the fundamentals and
4:14.0
4:18.3
applications training and I was so
impressed with him I wanted the Scaling
4:18.3
4:23.2
UP! Nation to meet him so Scaling UP!
Nation it’s my hope you enjoy my
4:23.2
4:28.1
interview with lathe Charles my lab
partner today is late Charles of Paul
4:28.1
4:33.5
Sofia how are you late I’m really good
trace thanks for having me on today it
4:33.5
4:36.2
is a nap
pleasure to have you on of course I got
4:36.2
4:40.1
to know you through the association of
Water Technologies and since that time
4:40.1
4:43.7
we’ve had a couple of conversations and
I’ve really enjoyed our correspondence
4:43.7
4:49.6
back and forth via email and I am
delighted to have you on Scaling UP! the
4:49.6
4:54.5
pleasure and the honor are all mine Trace
I appreciate you inviting me on.
4:54.5
5:00.0
absolutely and you have been great at
sending me questions and comments about
5:00.0
5:05.9
this show a matter of fact we were just
talking before this interview where you
5:05.9
5:10.5
had noted that I had made a mistake on a
previous podcast you want to talk about
5:10.5
5:16.3
that sure I mean I dabble yes I make
mistakes it happens no we all do and I
5:16.3
5:20.4
thought I’d made a huge blunder on on
some random math that I was working on
5:20.4
5:25.9
on the side I was doing some
calculations based on outside values and
5:25.9
5:31.1
then you were talking about LSI values
and how they correlate to phosphonates
5:31.1
5:37.5
and selecting organic versus inorganic
phosphonates and when you said LSI value
5:37.5
5:44.8
of six being the cutoff for scaling
versus corrosive nature I thought it was
5:44.8
5:49.5
missing something no you were exactly
right and I made a mistake and Scaling
5:49.5
5:56.2
UP! Nation I am an RSI guy so my brain
thinks to RSI and PSI and RSI or the
5:56.2
5:59.9
exact same they they translate their
numbers correct of course they have
5:59.9
6:04.4
different calculations in them but I
think I meant to say psi and I
6:04.4
6:09.9
mistakenly said LSI the lingerie or
stability index and the middle of the
6:09.9
6:18.0
LSI scale is zero where the middle of
the RSI and psi scale is six and I
6:18.0
6:23.0
believe in the phosphate episode which
was episode 46 I believe I was talking
6:23.0
6:27.4
about that basically you need carbonate
alkalinity in order for organic
6:27.4
6:32.1
phosphates to work and if you don’t have
carbon and alkalinity in your systems
6:32.1
6:36.3
then that’s when you’re using an
inorganic phosphate so I appreciate you
6:36.3
6:40.3
bringing that up because it allows me to
let the Scaling UP! Nation know that yes
6:40.3
6:44.3
I made a mistake it was a misspeak
hopefully more than a mistake but if you
6:44.3
6:48.8
go on my show notes page for that up
so you will see that I have a correction
6:48.8
6:54.5
on there so late obviously you are a
listener of scaling up you’re a member
6:54.5
7:00.3
of the Scaling UP! Nation and you also do
so many cool things in the water
7:00.3
7:04.6
treatment industry I’m hoping that you
can share with the Scaling UP! Nation
7:04.6
7:09.3
some of the things that you’re doing
currently sure I guess my current
7:09.3
7:14.2
professional endeavor is I am Regional
Sales Manager for poles a feeder up in
7:14.2
7:19.4
the Pacific Northwest so I cover a
handful of states for Pulsafeeder and
7:19.4
7:24.7
kind of get the privilege of providing
basically application engineering
7:24.7
7:30.1
solutions for our customers not
necessarily limited to just the pulse of
7:30.1
7:34.0
your portfolio but really just lend a
hand in trying to figure out what’s the
7:34.0
7:39.5
best way to solve this application
beyond that I dabble with an online blog
7:39.5
7:44.9
we’re gonna dive into a little bit later
but that vlogs called enthalpy and it’s
7:44.9
7:49.3
really just a way of kind of expanding
my knowledge set of water treatment and
7:49.3
7:54.2
the applications that it touches and
something that keeps me kind of engaged
7:54.2
7:59.4
and keeps my pulse on the water
treatment community so wait a second so
7:59.4
8:04.9
you’re saying that you started the blog
so you could actually learn more about a
8:04.9
8:10.6
particular topic yeah it’s kind of a
weird way to do it I suppose but um I
8:10.6
8:14.9
think that’s how we all do it that’s why
I started this podcast I know people
8:14.9
8:20.0
give me way more credit than I deserve
but I am so hungry for information out
8:20.0
8:24.7
there in this podcast gives me a
platform so I can continuously learn so
8:24.7
8:27.8
yeah you’re doing the exact same thing
with the blog I think you’re doing it in
8:27.8
8:34.2
the right order not the reverse order I
appreciate that but um it’s it’s
8:34.2
8:37.8
different if you’re trying to speak
about something as if you’re
8:37.8
8:43.0
knowledgeable on the topic the level of
understanding that you need is
8:43.0
8:48.1
exponentially higher than just kind of
blindly plugging and chugging numbers
8:48.1
8:52.8
and just accepting things as status quo
cuz you know you put something out there
8:52.8
8:55.6
a piece of information and you’re gonna
get challenged on that and you’ve got to
8:55.6
9:00.6
be able to say well I see that
perspective but this is why I have this
9:00.6
9:03.9
piñon you know basically do your
homework yeah I’m trying to think there
9:03.9
9:07.2
was a book catch me if you can I can’t
remember the author they made a movie
9:07.2
9:11.3
about it Tom Hanks was in it and
Leonardo DiCaprio and they were
9:11.3
9:16.3
interviewing him once they caught him in
the book basically what he was doing he
9:16.3
9:21.2
was assuming false identities and he was
very successful at assuming these
9:21.2
9:24.7
identities and the FBI could never catch
him because he was always one step ahead
9:24.7
9:31.1
and he was a college professor he taught
like these very high complicated topics
9:31.1
9:34.3
and they asked him how could you do that
he goes well because I read a chapter
9:34.3
9:38.5
ahead of all the students so he was just
one chapter ahead in the textbook but it
9:38.5
9:42.8
was enough so he seemed like an expert
so since we’re talking about your blog
9:42.8
9:45.4
tell us tell us a little bit more about
your blog what are some of the things
9:45.4
9:49.2
that you’re writing about and what are
some of the things that you have on it
9:49.2
9:58.3
so the blog right now is really just
kind of a an overarching dive on cooling
9:58.3
10:04.6
towers as all I think my first post was
about kind of cooling tower startup and
10:04.6
10:09.6
it correlated with kind of the warmer
weather and it just gave some some light
10:09.6
10:13.3
tips and tricks on yeah these are the
things that some people might neglect to
10:13.3
10:17.1
do when they turn on their system for
the first time you know certain
10:17.1
10:21.3
elastomers might have dried out certain
probes might have been left dry so just
10:21.3
10:25.7
doing the diligence to replace them but
but since then I’ve kind of stole from
10:25.7
10:31.1
from you trace learning from the
fundamentals you you had someone stand
10:31.1
10:35.6
on this stool and the stool has four
legs and these legs are kind of the
10:35.6
10:43.4
pillars of cooling tower control and I
piggybacked on that and basically put a
10:43.4
10:50.5
post on each of those pillars and tried
to add my own spin on it because I’m not
10:50.5
10:54.0
a chemist
that’s not my forte, pulsafeeder make
10:54.0
11:01.2
equipment control equipment pumps tons
of accessories and kind of my area of of
11:01.2
11:05.5
cording quit expertise is really on how
the equipment works kind of what are the
11:05.5
11:08.9
limitations of the equipment how to
correctly install that equipment and
11:08.9
11:13.9
then I get to kind of see some of the
installation issues that vary
11:13.9
11:18.7
customers might have come across and you
know I can kind of speak to those wait
11:18.7
11:22.9
correct me if I’m wrong but you’re an
electrical engineer is that correct yeah
11:22.9
11:28.3
that’s correct so I graduated out of
Orlando ironically where the AWT
11:28.3
11:33.1
convention is this year but some I’m a
UCF grad so so go Knights
11:33.1
11:36.9
I got my degree in electrical
engineering and then just started right
11:36.9
11:41.3
after college working for balsa feeder
in our engineering department designing
11:41.3
11:46.3
testing products for them I worked on
our cooling tower controller at the
11:46.3
11:49.6
Micronesian TX and I just eventually
over time became more and more
11:49.6
11:53.8
customer-facing getting more and more
application experience and then from
11:53.8
11:59.2
that point it was just kind of an
organic transition into basically my
11:59.2
12:04.2
role today where I’m very very customer
facing and a regional sales position so
12:04.2
12:10.3
you are proof that engineers do more
than simply drive trains the living
12:10.3
12:14.6
proof well you brought up also feeder of
course that is the company that you work
12:14.6
12:20.0
for and love so let’s talk a little bit
about Pulsafeeder what are some of the
12:20.0
12:25.8
new things that you guys have to offer
us in a Scaling UP! Nation yeah I mean
12:25.8
12:30.8
Pulsafeeder are known for pumps
there’s nothing really changed about
12:30.8
12:35.9
that we still make one of the most
reliable cost-effective pumps out there
12:35.9
12:42.8
that’s our forte and it’s not changing
anytime soon but yeah Pulsafeeder kind
12:42.8
12:47.6
of revamped their controller line
relatively recently we had an online
12:47.6
12:51.7
controller but when I say online I’m
talking about communicating over like
12:51.7
12:59.7
baud 9600 you know kind of the older
realm of online communications so our
12:59.7
13:04.6
latest platform is the micro vision TX
and that’s our newer cooling tower
13:04.6
13:09.7
controller and we really kind of
reassessed the whole online platform
13:09.7
13:15.6
with the the needs of the water treater
are and focused on our alert system our
13:15.6
13:21.7
report system and just integrating some
tools that make programming the
13:21.7
13:27.6
controller easier and more error-free so
so that that’s really what’s
13:27.6
13:30.9
ooh the fall severe and what we’re
focusing on and then you know our
13:30.9
13:35.6
engineering teams always working on
perfecting or refining whether it’s a
13:35.6
13:41.2
pump accessory or new tool there’s so
much opportunity technology moves so
13:41.2
13:45.5
fast and our industry isn’t exactly
known for adopting new technologies
13:45.5
13:51.9
rapidly so this is rift with how far
sensing equipment and these electronic
13:51.9
13:56.1
components had evolved so kind of what’s
successful in the market today which is
13:56.1
14:01.3
kind of an awesome opportunity being on
the engineering side of things when
14:01.3
14:06.4
you’re also on the customer facing side
so I’m curious what’s the biggest reason
14:06.4
14:12.1
that you get from your customers which
would be our customers ultimately why
14:12.1
14:17.6
they wouldn’t upgrade to something that
is later greater ultimately going to
14:17.6
14:23.9
save them money I think a lot of people
get concerned about security whenever
14:23.9
14:29.5
you talk about something being online a
lot of customer perception is worried
14:29.5
14:36.0
about what will that make my system
vulnerable Pulsafeeder took security
14:36.0
14:42.1
and minds and they kind of designed it
with with military-grade encryption with
14:42.1
14:48.3
that customer perception in mind the
other piece that I think really limits
14:48.3
14:53.8
customers from getting that controller
online is if they’re concerned about
14:53.8
14:59.0
security a lot of them don’t allow
controllers to be hardwired within their
14:59.0
15:04.3
network so then you have to start
exploring well do I need a modem at this
15:04.3
15:09.2
installation and do I have to pay for a
cell contract and and who exactly is
15:09.2
15:14.1
covering the cost of that that modem and
then kind of the recurring data fees
15:14.1
15:18.7
that we’re gonna have to sustain and I
mean there’s tons of ways to do that
15:18.7
15:23.9
tons of ways to kind of handle that cost
some people are absorbing the costs
15:23.9
15:26.9
themselves the water treater they say
this is how we do it
15:26.9
15:31.1
it helps us manage our system better we
provide more value to the customer by
15:31.1
15:34.6
just building that into the contract
absorbing that cost and providing them
15:34.6
15:39.0
better service because we have now
better visibility so the processes we
15:39.0
15:43.1
control some of them are
very customer driven customers say nope
15:43.1
15:47.6
I want this I’m happy to pay more money
for this and then others are kind of
15:47.6
15:53.5
enforced by regulatory compliance you
know the the whole city of New York has
15:53.5
15:59.8
additional requirements which kind of
make being a water treaty in New York
15:59.8
16:04.1
without online controllers very
difficult yeah because you would have to
16:04.1
16:08.5
be at that account at the exact second
that you got the test result that was
16:08.5
16:13.2
showing that it was positive to make
that change so the only way those guys
16:13.2
16:18.6
can even go home is to have their
controllers online yeah and if they
16:18.6
16:24.9
don’t have it online then the testing
interval goes up dramatically to an
16:24.9
16:30.5
almost unsustainable level you know we
have many of our clients online and it
16:30.5
16:35.6
allows us to do our job better
especially with Legionella testing as
16:35.6
16:40.4
soon as we get a positive back or so
we’ve got to send that to a lab and they
16:40.4
16:45.7
send it back we can make that adjustment
right then and there if we didn’t have
16:45.7
16:49.4
that we would have to stop what we were
doing and then go all the way out to
16:49.4
16:53.6
wherever that might be to make that
adjustment well now we can make the
16:53.6
16:58.0
adjustment as soon as we get the notice
and then we can start driving to that
16:58.0
17:01.6
account to do whatever else we need to
do and we can do other tests and other
17:01.6
17:05.7
checks because our product has already
fed yeah exactly
17:05.7
17:11.1
you’re very forward-thinking and being
proactive about that and having that
17:11.1
17:16.0
online function available to you now
you’re already ahead of curve well I’m
17:16.0
17:21.5
sure you have seen things going out and
working with us water treatment folk
17:21.5
17:26.3
that you have just scratched your head
and thought why did you hook this up
17:26.3
17:32.2
this way with keeping everybody
protected and using no names I’m curious
17:32.2
17:36.1
what installation nightmares have you
seen out there
17:36.1
17:42.2
well I’ll hit on the fact again that my
forte is equipment and not chemistry so
17:42.2
17:47.7
the amount of information that a water
Trier is expected to know is
17:47.7
17:51.4
astronomical not only do you have to
know about the chemistry side of it but
17:51.4
17:54.8
you have to know about the process the
open-loop side the
17:54.8
17:59.8
closed-loop side chiller that it’s
almost unreal so when I see something
17:59.8
18:05.1
I’m like huh that’s a little odd or
that’s a little different have my scope
18:05.1
18:10.7
of knowledge of information is narrow
and it’s very equipment centric so
18:10.7
18:16.9
needless to say that probably one of the
most common things that I see are just
18:16.9
18:22.0
installation set up things that that are
just odd I’ve seen coupon racks that are
18:22.0
18:27.3
mounted you know turned 90 degrees with
the flow going the wrong way I see that
18:27.3
18:30.5
more often than I’d like to admit to you
they’re not our accounts but they’re
18:30.5
18:35.2
they’re ones that we are trying to get
yeah folks there’s an asme standard on
18:35.2
18:40.5
how to hang those yes there is and it’s
very particular about kind of the
18:40.5
18:44.5
spacing between the coupons and you know
obviously you know the metallurgy as
18:44.5
18:47.7
well the order to put the coupons in
there’s there’s so much stuff to
18:47.7
18:53.0
consider probably one of the things I
don’t see the most is kind of probe
18:53.0
18:58.5
installation specifically the pH ORP
probes and if you ever deal with
18:58.5
19:03.3
something that’s the kion specific
those are probes that are very very
19:03.3
19:08.4
finicky they want water within a certain
pressure range within a certain
19:08.4
19:13.1
temperature range within a certain flow
range and you’re expected to just whip
19:13.1
19:17.3
that up out of thin air and make it work
and you know these are real-world
19:17.3
19:23.7
processes but I’ll see comfortably 10 20
gallons per minute going across a pH
19:23.7
19:27.0
probe and I’ll tell you that pH probe
isn’t gonna last
19:27.0
19:32.0
near as long as if you installed it with
it’s recommended three to five gallons
19:32.0
19:36.1
per minute going across the probe so
yeah that’s probably the one that causes
19:36.1
19:41.6
the most issues well let me ask you a
question about pH and ORP probes so in
19:41.6
19:46.7
addition to making sure that you have
the right flow parameters going through
19:46.7
19:51.8
those probes I know they also have to be
in a specific orientation and I’ve seen
19:51.8
19:54.1
them up
I’ve seen them down I’ve seen them to
19:54.1
20:01.7
the side where should they be in that
sample line so pH ORP probe should be
20:01.7
20:07.8
vertically mounted and flow should be
going then horizontal across it so it’s
20:07.8
20:11.3
going into a tea
the probe should be upright going down
20:11.3
20:16.8
into solution and then yeah yet then
just observe the flow recommendations I
20:16.8
20:23.0
would strongly advise putting also like
a trap on the probe and by trap I just
20:23.0
20:27.2
mean like a little dip in the piping or
an elbow some people ship their panels
20:27.2
20:32.4
kind of that way but that is to keep the
probe wet should there be a no flow
20:32.4
20:36.0
situation I don’t know if you’re piping
drains in your in your process or not
20:36.0
20:41.3
but if it does you definitely want to
trap you do not want this probes to dry
20:41.3
20:47.4
out trying out is another recipe for
disaster when it comes to kind of early
20:47.4
20:52.5
failure off of these probes so thinking
out loud which you’re saying is in your
20:52.5
20:57.1
flow assembly you want those probes to
be at the bottom of the assembly so they
20:57.1
21:01.8
don’t run out of water yeah if you can
put a mini trap where it’s just a step
21:01.8
21:07.3
okay so the level drops down you want
the probes to be then going into that
21:07.3
21:12.5
lower section of pipe go the one that
should ideally not drain because you do
21:12.5
21:17.0
have a little trap there all right
that’s great advice let me ask what
21:17.0
21:23.4
would happen if somebody did put the
probes in the wrong orientation well
21:23.4
21:29.6
inside the probe is an electrode buffer
and the proper installation kind of
21:29.6
21:34.2
ensures that that buffer and the glass
same i per Mille glass membrane on those
21:34.2
21:38.7
probes kind of exchanges at an
acceptable rate with the process
21:38.7
21:44.9
bouncing the probe in correctly will
typically expedite the kind of the
21:44.9
21:50.0
electrolyte buffer getting out of the
probe which will kill the probe as well
21:50.0
21:55.9
yeah my inner nerd and me wanted to see
if I could bring a spent probe back to
21:55.9
22:01.2
life so I had a supersaturated solution
of potassium chloride and I actually was
22:01.2
22:07.0
able to get that probe to work for about
three hours yeah you can do a lot of
22:07.0
22:11.1
restoring the breath that’s that’s a
really good point is proper probe care I
22:11.1
22:15.7
mean I know you’ve mentioned caring for
your Myron L and that’s just a probe
22:15.7
22:20.0
where you kind of take samples
periodically and then you put it back in
22:20.0
22:24.0
its nice buffer solution and it gets
with no flow going across it for quite
22:24.0
22:29.2
some time so the demand on a probe in
that application let’s factor out the
22:29.2
22:32.6
fact that it sits in a hundred degree
car for a couple hours out of the day
22:32.6
22:38.6
but the fact that it’s not subjected to
flow 24/7 helps it hello so think about
22:38.6
22:44.5
this probe it’s in the process actively
reading almost 24/7 things get on it
22:44.5
22:49.1
oils cover the probe as I mentioned that
that buffer kind of depletes over time
22:49.1
22:52.2
there’s a lot of things you can do to
bring them back to life to your point
22:52.2
22:56.0
trace you can you know rinse it off with
some Dawn dish soap to help get any kind
22:56.0
23:00.1
of oils that might be coating that a
glass membrane that can help you can
23:00.1
23:04.9
also kind of hit it with some some acids
to try and restore or even put it back
23:04.9
23:09.4
in that reference buffer that comes in
to try and restore it as well
23:09.4
23:12.7
so yeah there are things you can do to
bring it back to life a little bit but
23:12.7
23:17.9
there’s a point of diminishing return
exactly and someone told me that because
23:17.9
23:22.9
it’s a semipermeable membrane and you
got that reference material in there as
23:22.9
23:29.2
soon as it gets made it starts to
diminish its accuracy so in the Box it
23:29.2
23:33.3
has an expiration date and then you know
it’s just you put it in the system and
23:33.3
23:38.2
eventually it is going to fail and I
think a lot of people don’t realize that
23:38.2
23:42.3
they think okay I just spent all this
money for this new controller it came
23:42.3
23:47.0
with pH and ORP and now it’s you know
twelve months later or whatever it is
23:47.0
23:51.7
and now I got to replace this probe why
isn’t this thing working properly and
23:51.7
23:56.1
there might be some things you can do to
extend the life but the normal life it
23:56.1
24:00.8
does have an expiration date and you do
have to replace those how often if
24:00.8
24:07.6
everything is correct should we expect
to replace those probes so manufacturers
24:07.6
24:13.2
of the probes say that sitting on a
shelf in buffer solution the shelf life
24:13.2
24:19.4
is two years I’ve seen someone get away
with using a probe for three or four
24:19.4
24:26.3
years I guess my rebuttal is how precise
do you want to be with probe if you know
24:26.3
24:31.5
1/2 a pH is good enough then the
replacement time can stretch a little
24:31.5
24:35.5
bit if you need it precise within point
to pH
24:35.5
24:39.7
now then your your change frequency
should be higher I’d recommend an annual
24:39.7
24:44.6
switch oh I mean your systems being
turned off I’m I’m guessing most people
24:44.6
24:50.7
aren’t storing their probes correctly so
yeah just just build it in these probes
24:50.7
24:54.4
in particular it’s better to have an
accurate probe than burn through a ton
24:54.4
24:58.3
of chemistry that’s a great point our
probes better today than they were
24:58.3
25:06.3
yesterday yes and no the glass permeable
pH and the same exact probe with a
25:06.3
25:13.3
platinum rod sticking out of it for ORP
is largely unchanged fundamentally the
25:13.3
25:19.4
same exact technology is used I would
say that just kind of electronics have
25:19.4
25:23.2
gotten better the isolation on
electronics the precision of power
25:23.2
25:28.7
supplies and making certain analog to
digital sensing equipment more cost
25:28.7
25:35.0
affordable has has definitely bridge the
gap a little bit but the actual analog
25:35.0
25:41.1
sensing element hasn’t changed in our
industry at least there are other
25:41.1
25:46.0
technologies out there they have
solid-state pH sensing devices but
25:46.0
25:50.1
honestly there are a pretty cost
prohibitive and they have a very narrow
25:50.1
25:53.9
scope of kind of these are the
conditions that probes like that are
25:53.9
25:58.8
happy to operate in and that’s often a
deal breaker in in our real world
25:58.8
26:04.0
applications so probably the most
important
26:04.0
26:07.5
measurement two cents specifically
unlike evaporative coolers or even
26:07.5
26:17.5
boilers is conductivity
you know pH and ORP are selectively used
26:17.5
26:24.1
but controlling connectivity’s is key so
I just emphasize that make sure you’ve
26:24.1
26:29.5
got a good conductivity probe make sure
you’re maintaining correctly I strongly
26:29.5
26:35.3
recommend kind of a toroidal style
conductivity probe lathe for our
26:35.3
26:39.6
audience for our audience if you will
what does that mean what does toroidal
26:39.6
26:42.2
will actually mean what is that probe if
somebody hasn’t seen it
26:42.2
26:48.0
so when you look at the measurement used
for conductivity micro Siemens per
26:48.0
26:52.8
centimeter so that’s how conductive is
something over a centimeter which is a
26:52.8
26:58.3
line one line so when you talk about a
contacting style probe it’s measuring
26:58.3
27:03.4
from one point to the next if I put
voltage X from one probe how much do I
27:03.4
27:07.1
see on the other probe how much current
is going what’s my it’s my drop and you
27:07.1
27:12.8
can infer conductivity from that when I
say toroidal style that’s a probe that’s
27:12.8
27:18.6
taking kind of a volumetric measurement
of the process solution so the way that
27:18.6
27:23.5
the probe works is it kind of emits a
magnetic field in the solution so it’s
27:23.5
27:28.3
got an excitation emitter and then it’s
got an antenna that’s receiving kind of
27:28.3
27:34.3
what the reflective magnetic field is
and things that are more conductive will
27:34.3
27:40.4
magnify the emitted magnetic field more
anyway needless to say the probe itself
27:40.4
27:45.4
is doing a volumetric measure it’s not
measuring from one line to another it’s
27:45.4
27:50.3
taking a broad measurement and it’s
averaging it doing that makes the probe
27:50.3
27:56.1
way way more accurate and far more
resistant to fouling you talk about
27:56.1
28:01.3
scale buildup on this probe you talk
about things like biofilm things that
28:01.3
28:05.2
could interfere with your measurement
using a toroidal style probe your your
28:05.2
28:11.4
prorating the effects of that fouling
film exponentially to where it’s almost
28:11.4
28:15.7
not affecting the actual raw measurement
at all
28:15.7
28:20.4
is there a major cost difference between
the regular style probe and the toroidal
28:20.4
28:24.6
I mean there is a cost impact race as
with anything that’s better
28:24.6
28:29.7
but like certain product families Pulsafeeder just have that built in as the
28:29.7
28:35.1
standard we manufacture our own probe
it’s our own design that works very very
28:35.1
28:39.5
well in standardizing on it kind of
helps us lower the price point of
28:39.5
28:45.9
getting that better technology built in
an affordable price late anything else
28:45.9
28:51.3
we can expect from sensing equipment
today so one of my hobbies is to keep a
28:51.3
28:58.0
good pulse on advances in sensing
equipment new sensors out there if I’m
28:58.0
29:03.4
gonna put on my forward-thinking hat and
try and guess where sensing technology
29:03.4
29:08.9
is gonna go I think we’re gonna see a
lot more bio film sensors use more
29:08.9
29:14.2
standard obviously biofilm is awful
insulator so it’s something like water
29:14.2
29:19.2
treaters care about and it can kind of
help shield Legionella and any other
29:19.2
29:23.4
kind of bacteria from from biocides from
being effective so expect an uptick in
29:23.4
29:29.5
biofilm sensing equipment I would also
say that we’ve kind of seen the start of
29:29.5
29:36.2
optical sensors getting their foothold
in this in this industry so obviously
29:36.2
29:43.2
PTSA and fluorescein have appeared in
cooling towers and boilers and it’s now
29:43.2
29:48.2
available through a few different probe
manufacturers but you know that’s that’s
29:48.2
29:54.3
a light source exciting a particle and
then kind of analyzing the the
29:54.3
29:58.6
immittance
to gauge what your trace levels are late
29:58.6
30:05.1
I remember it wasn’t very long ago where
those probes those those light emitting
30:05.1
30:10.7
probes were incredibly expensive and it
was very difficult to convince customers
30:10.7
30:15.9
to put out that kind of money to trace
the products that we had in there now
30:15.9
30:21.3
the price is considerably lower and it’s
a lot easier to get those on the
30:21.3
30:24.9
controllers that were recommending
because of that are you guys selling a
30:24.9
30:29.5
lot more of those a Pulsafeeder I mean
people are either
30:29.5
30:34.6
bored with trace or they’re not they’ve
either incorporated incorporated it into
30:34.6
30:40.7
their inhibitor and they they swear by
it or they’re good with molybdate or
30:40.7
30:43.7
somewhat some other kind of trace
technology yeah yeah there’s been a huge
30:43.7
30:48.4
uptick in that a lot of its customer
driven as well I’ve noticed a lot of
30:48.4
30:52.9
data centers like having it it gives
them kind of sense of more control over
30:52.9
30:59.6
the chemistry in their tower but optical
technology is only getting cheaper it’s
30:59.6
31:04.2
one of the more exciting fields it’s
where most of the recent Nobel Prizes
31:04.2
31:10.0
are going to optical discoveries like
the the blue LED being exponentially
31:10.0
31:14.3
more efficient than an kind of
incandescent bulbs that’s just one style
31:14.3
31:19.7
of optical probe we’ve seen take off and
then become more affordable we still
31:19.7
31:25.3
haven’t touched on like interferometers
getting and taking off in in the water
31:25.3
31:30.0
treatment industry and even optical
spectroscopy I think you’ll see that
31:30.0
31:36.1
become more affordable and then instead
of sensing pH ORP things like that you
31:36.1
31:41.2
can actually see how much alkalinity is
there in the system how much of this
31:41.2
31:45.9
exact molecule is there in the system
still cost prohibitive at this point but
31:45.9
31:50.9
I I’d be surprised if we don’t see that
slowly transition into our market in
31:50.9
31:56.9
addition to some some thin film sensors
and on all this other stuff well I think
31:56.9
32:00.1
the thing I appreciate it most was your
comment that needs to be a t-shirt
32:00.1
32:05.8
you’re either on board with trace or
you’re not story of my life definitely
32:05.8
32:10.9
definitely lay the last time we saw each
other was in Cleveland for the AWT
32:10.9
32:13.9
technical training seminars and of
course you and I were over in the
32:13.9
32:20.1
fundamentals an application side and you
taught me that the term cop and cop kit
32:20.1
32:24.5
actually stands for something I never
knew this please let the Scaling UP!
32:24.5
32:30.6
Nation know what that stands for be my
pleasures yeah cop kit stands for keep
32:30.6
32:38.1
on pumping cop kit so yeah that’s just
our name for a wet and rebuild kit for
32:38.1
32:42.7
the positron pump recommend doing them
at least annually maybe once every six
32:42.7
32:47.1
months too
your pump in tip-top performance I have
32:47.1
32:51.5
been rebuilding pumps probably since I
was 13 years old I’ve always called him
32:51.5
32:56.9
cop kids I had no idea that they
actually meant something so there you go
32:56.9
33:04.1
Scaling UP! Nation now you are advice as
well as I am but yeah while we’re on the
33:04.1
33:08.2
topic of the the fundamentals and
applications training and just I
33:08.2
33:14.9
attended the the fundamentals side of it
in Vegas I actually sat in the class I
33:14.9
33:20.3
learned a wealth of information you guys
cram a lot of information into a very
33:20.3
33:24.5
short amount of time it’s kind of like
as you’ve called it drinking from a
33:24.5
33:28.5
firehose absolutely and of course you’re
referring to I get the privilege of
33:28.5
33:34.5
doing that alongside of Mark Lewis
correct you both tag-team that and and
33:34.5
33:38.7
give the audience far more information
and they have any idea what to do with
33:38.7
33:44.7
but it’s hugely valuable at least it was
for me I guess I’m gonna give you a
33:44.7
33:51.9
minor applaud or actually a major one
for the time and the effort and you
33:51.9
33:57.9
really go out there and you put on a
heck of a show and it’s super rewarding
33:57.9
34:03.0
for those who attend if you haven’t gone
I’d strongly recommend it they have the
34:03.0
34:07.9
the the more entry-level class and then
an advanced course I hope to take the
34:07.9
34:12.8
Advanced Course next year well I think I
thank you for that comment and I also
34:12.8
34:16.7
think it ties in to our conversation
that we had at the top of the episode
34:16.7
34:22.2
where when you’re wanting to learn more
about a topic the easiest way to do is
34:22.2
34:25.4
put yourself out there giving
information so the more you give the
34:25.4
34:29.1
more you get back you’re doing that with
a blog I’m doing that with the podcast
34:29.1
34:33.7
and I’m especially doing that when I’m
training because if I can train
34:33.7
34:38.2
something and I can train when somebody
doesn’t have all the experiences and
34:38.2
34:43.5
references that I do and I can build
that mental image for them as they’re
34:43.5
34:47.8
listening to me I understand that topic
better and I wouldn’t have had that
34:47.8
34:54.1
opportunity had I not done those yeah I
mean I’d encourage anyone who wants to
34:54.1
35:00.4
get more involved to do it I mean
no one here’s trying to make you ask a
35:00.4
35:06.1
dumb question in a crowd and laugh at
you everyone is out there supportive
35:06.1
35:11.6
it’s a super interesting loving
community that the kind of the whole AWT
35:11.6
35:18.6
market has created because you’ve got
competitors that talk to each other like
35:18.6
35:21.9
their colleagues they work
collaboratively together I mean it’s all
35:21.9
35:27.2
towards kind of making the chemistry and
the processes better manage more
35:27.2
35:31.5
efficient and I’d encourage anyone who’s
trying to get out there get more
35:31.5
35:36.4
involved to do so people in the NWT
community are super helpful
35:36.4
35:42.6
they’re super willing to lend a hand and
then kind of mentor you and they want to
35:42.6
35:46.7
see you succeed they want to see you do
well so get up there and the end of the
35:46.7
35:50.8
day you’re gonna benefit from it
absolutely well let’s talk about some of
35:50.8
35:54.9
the other things that you do to put
yourself out there of course you’re not
35:54.9
36:00.3
only a participant in the fundamentals
and applications training you also help
36:00.3
36:03.3
do some of that training would you mind
sharing with the Scaling UP! Nation what
36:03.3
36:09.7
you’re doing with that yes absolutely so
this past year there was a hands-on
36:09.7
36:15.9
session kind of towards the end of the
training where Pulsafeeder is one of
36:15.9
36:20.4
the privileged vendors to come in bring
some equipment bring some screwdrivers a
36:20.4
36:25.9
little bit of reference literature and
just help show the treaters out there
36:25.9
36:29.6
how to install this equipment how to
take it apart how to correctly install
36:29.6
36:36.9
it and it’s really a great way to to get
a good Q&A session going on I got so
36:36.9
36:42.2
many good questions about you know
correct installation of pumps and and
36:42.2
36:46.4
that’s actually what I covered I covered
pumps and blowdown bounce so we went
36:46.4
36:51.7
over this is how you install a pump
flooded suction versus suction lift what
36:51.7
36:56.1
you have to watch out for in terms of
you know injecting a hundred foot up in
36:56.1
36:58.0
the air
what kind of back pressure does that
36:58.0
37:02.4
build up against the pump making sure
you oversized equipment making sure you
37:02.4
37:06.4
put a check ball if you’re worried about
chemical maybe going backwards there on
37:06.4
37:10.1
directions lots lots of good stuff and
you get this
37:10.1
37:15.3
the components what they look like how
they go together and then take it apart
37:15.3
37:19.7
yourself truth be known you gave me a
lot of credit for how good mark and I
37:19.7
37:24.6
section is I think the best thing that
is done in the fundamentals and
37:24.6
37:30.3
application training is that hands-on
section the fact that all the attendees
37:30.3
37:35.9
get to circulate around through four
different vendors each covering a
37:35.9
37:39.2
different topic they’re taking things
apart they’re putting them together
37:39.2
37:45.0
they’re learning how to troubleshoot
they are saving so much time when they
37:45.0
37:49.3
get back in the field because they have
learned these tips and techniques it’s
37:49.3
37:55.5
absolutely the best thing AWT does in my
opinion yeah I mean I was super honored
37:55.5
38:01.3
to be involved in that as I mentioned I
I just that every session was so
38:01.3
38:03.4
different
if you break everyone up into small
38:03.4
38:09.0
groups and it can really go any way the
the questions that they ask kind of
38:09.0
38:15.2
steer how the hands-on kind of plays out
and we’re really that just there as a
38:15.2
38:20.9
resource to the water treaters so help
them do their their jobs better yeah all
38:20.9
38:24.7
of you guys do a fantastic job and folks
out there in the nation if you’re
38:24.7
38:28.9
listening and you’re going to come think
about some of the issues that you’re
38:28.9
38:34.9
having with equipment that if you knew
some tips and techniques to solve that
38:34.9
38:38.6
it would save you tremendous amount of
time out in the field and this is the
38:38.6
38:44.2
perfect venue for you to ask that and
now that actually helps people like lave
38:44.2
38:48.7
not have to lead the entire conversation
and I think you might want to know about
38:48.7
38:52.0
this and I think you might want to know
about that if you’re letting him know
38:52.0
38:56.0
exactly what you need to know about it’s
a far better interaction wouldn’t you
38:56.0
39:01.4
agree oh absolutely I mean what are we
given it’s 45 minutes something like
39:01.4
39:08.5
that five minutes about pumps but you
know I’d rather talk for you know 10-15
39:08.5
39:13.1
minutes do the high-level overview and
then the rest of it is just interactive
39:13.1
39:18.2
what have you seen what problems have
you encountered how can we help what
39:18.2
39:21.5
could we do differently to avoid certain
problems from happening in the future
39:21.5
39:26.0
what are some best practices here
there and that that’s the beauty of the
39:26.0
39:30.4
small groups and kind of the intimate
community that the AWT creates in that
39:30.4
39:35.3
venue so thanks for for kind of creating
that forum and allowing some of the
39:35.3
39:39.7
vendors to come in with equipment I
think it is providing immense value to
39:39.7
39:46.0
the customers well I’m just one piece of
the moving cog in that wheel so but yeah
39:46.0
39:50.2
you’re absolutely welcome and we improve
that each and every time that we do it
39:50.2
39:52.5
and thanks for all the people that allow
that to happen
39:52.5
39:57.6
you know I want to change gears just a
little bit you know the old guys call me
39:57.6
40:02.9
a young guy and of course I’m older than
you so I can call you a young guy but
40:02.9
40:07.8
there’s a misconception then I want to
talk about and I don’t think I told you
40:07.8
40:11.7
we were going to talk about this so
we’ll see how this goes but when the
40:11.7
40:17.8
older generation is dealing with people
in your generation there’s the tendency
40:17.8
40:22.4
that okay well the young guys just don’t
get it there they don’t want it as much
40:22.4
40:28.6
as I did when I was their age and I see
people like you that are blogging that
40:28.6
40:33.6
or volunteering that are putting
yourself out there to learn all that you
40:33.6
40:39.3
can as quickly as you can and also find
some mentors out there to help you along
40:39.3
40:46.2
the way so my question is what advice do
you have for both sides of that fence so
40:46.2
40:53.1
I guess for younger up-and-coming water
treaters who want to kind of make waves
40:53.1
40:58.7
and really take take the industry by the
horns is yeah challenge things
40:58.7
41:04.0
respectfully but challenge the status
quo you know if your mentor and water
41:04.0
41:08.2
treatment has been doing the same thing
for 30 years like trust me what they’re
41:08.2
41:12.7
doing works and you should definitely
listen to that but with newer
41:12.7
41:15.7
technologies and maybe some new
chemistry out there if you’ve done your
41:15.7
41:19.9
research definitely try and incorporate
some of these process improvements
41:19.9
41:23.6
because without them you know you miss
out on potential advancements in the
41:23.6
41:30.7
industry so so definitely challenge
status quos the older people yeah I mean
41:30.7
41:34.9
us Millennials are going to make
mistakes give us a little bit Alicia to
41:34.9
41:37.5
make those mistakes so that we can learn
from them
41:37.5
41:42.7
right it’s one thing to tell someone do
this do that it’s another thing for them
41:42.7
41:45.7
to go through it and learn that
knowledge firsthand those are the
41:45.7
41:51.0
lessons that stick so so be patient with
art with our kind of constant nagging
41:51.0
41:56.0
and and really really fast pace I want
results now type type mentality and then
41:56.0
42:01.3
yeah when it comes to mentors and kind
of how to get out there is participate
42:01.3
42:05.8
you know get involved in a community I’m
a member of the AWT on professionals
42:05.8
42:11.3
organization Michele farmer he does a
great job kind of running the the seed
42:11.3
42:17.5
subcommittee within that as well as the
whole organization lean on the AWT
42:17.5
42:20.3
community
you mentioned mentors I mean my main
42:20.3
42:25.9
mentors probably my father huge
influential role model but you know he
42:25.9
42:28.9
doesn’t know anything about water
treatment that’s his his backgrounds in
42:28.9
42:33.5
IT and things like that so I’ve been
fortunate enough to reach out to you
42:33.5
42:37.9
trace a couple other prominent figures
in the AWT community and they’ve been
42:37.9
42:44.3
super friendly super willing to help so
lean on those people and then yeah your
42:44.3
42:48.1
organization’s gonna have tons of
resources at your disposal they’re gonna
42:48.1
42:52.2
they’re gonna want you to learn they
want gonna want to invest in you so take
42:52.2
42:57.0
advantage of that they let me ask you
because I’m sure when you’re picking up
42:57.0
43:01.4
the phone and you’re calling somebody
you probably don’t know very well or you
43:01.4
43:05.5
know of and you want them to help you
with an issue that you’re having maybe
43:05.5
43:11.3
ultimately be a mentor what advice do
you have to pick up that hundred pound
43:11.3
43:16.9
phone and actually make that phone call
well I mean I’ve kind of had to get used
43:16.9
43:21.4
to picking up the phone and making calls
that may or may not be answer that’s
43:21.4
43:26.0
that’s kind of the wheelhouse that I’m
in right now but tell me what are you
43:26.0
43:29.8
got to lose if you don’t make the phone
call you definitely don’t get the answer
43:29.8
43:34.3
if you pick up the phone call and try
you can at least save you’ve cried if
43:34.3
43:39.3
you don’t get the answer you want yeah
move on I mean there’s no change if you
43:39.3
43:43.6
get a no you you are where you are
you’ve lost nothing so so roll the dice
43:43.6
43:49.6
don’t worry about your ego just try and
get that that needle moving great answer
43:49.6
43:54.5
like what’s the one thing you want the
Scaling UP! Nation to know from this
43:54.5
43:59.3
interview oh I guess there’s no
shortcuts to water treatment there’s
43:59.3
44:04.6
there’s no one answer to any question
hopefully out of this interview you’ve
44:04.6
44:09.0
gotten something that’ll one trick one
tip that might help you make a pH probe
44:09.0
44:12.7
lasts a little longer avoid an
installation issue but just know that
44:12.7
44:17.6
there’s there’s resources available if
you ever have technical questions it’s
44:17.6
44:22.3
all a symbiotic relationship you use the
vendors around you to support you you
44:22.3
44:26.7
should peers around you just support you
know that this is a big community and
44:26.7
44:32.5
that we’re all kind of hoping to to
perfect these processes consume less
44:32.5
44:39.8
water prolonged chiller lifespan I mean
it’s all one big system and yeah take
44:39.8
44:44.8
advantage of it I love it I will say
that water treatment I think is the
44:44.8
44:49.6
original green industry we were saving
water before anybody thought about
44:49.6
44:56.4
saving water but I’ll also say that
having your generation move into it has
44:56.4
45:02.0
really embraced the fact that we have
such a huge impact in order to save
45:02.0
45:05.9
water in the amount of water that we
could save I think we’re moving faster
45:05.9
45:09.1
as an industry because we do have
Millennial’s in the water treatment
45:09.1
45:13.9
community yeah millennial is a pretty
short attention span results-driven
45:13.9
45:17.3
people so they’re definitely gonna try
and shake up the water treatment
45:17.3
45:22.8
industry a little bit and I’m kind of
excited to see how that all plays out
45:22.8
45:26.6
and what water treatment looks you know
five ten years from now
45:26.6
45:30.4
you know it’s funny you say that because
I get more comments that my podcasts are
45:30.4
45:34.1
too long can i shorten them and I say
just listen to them in other segments
45:34.1
45:38.6
but I guess that’s why I get that
comment yeah people say that they won’t
45:38.6
45:42.7
get out of their cars to go service an
account or to go into their house at the
45:42.7
45:45.1
end of the night because they want to
see how it ends I guess that’s a good
45:45.1
45:49.6
thing but folks you could hit pause and
you can play it later you have that
45:49.6
45:55.2
ability I do have one of your episodes
on pause now just just as an FYI oh do
45:55.2
46:00.1
you alright well that’s okay so you
you’ve learned how to use your phone app
46:00.1
46:05.6
properly so you out there in the scam
you can learn from late and you can hit
46:05.6
46:10.9
pause too so this has been a lot of fun
I’ve got a couple of lightning round
46:10.9
46:15.0
questions for you so I’m not quite done
with you yet if you got a couple more
46:15.0
46:20.0
moments to spend with me let’s do it
alright so you know i’ma Back to the
46:20.0
46:25.2
Future fan you know I have a DeLorean
here in my office it is equipped with a
46:25.2
46:28.5
flux capacitor we’re gonna get in it
together we’re gonna set the time
46:28.5
46:33.9
circuits back to the first day of you
and the water treatment industry what
46:33.9
46:38.8
advice do you give yourself don’t think
your DeLorean needed much power to get
46:38.8
46:43.6
back you know to a whopping four years
ago but um yeah I mean I don’t have an
46:43.6
46:48.3
incredible amount of perspective because
I haven’t been in the biz for a crazy
46:48.3
46:53.2
long amount of time but um yeah
definitely I’ll reinforce the fact that
46:53.2
46:57.9
don’t be afraid of failure and to put
yourself out there getting involved in a
46:57.9
47:02.8
subcommittee is probably one of the best
things you can do you you gets a to know
47:02.8
47:06.2
such certain people in the industry
you start talking collaboratively about
47:06.2
47:10.4
solving a problem in the industry and
yeah it’s definitely gonna help your
47:10.4
47:14.6
personal development and just get you
out there networking what’s the last
47:14.6
47:20.0
book you’ve read the last books I read
I’ve got a name the seven Habits of
47:20.0
47:23.8
Highly Effective People I think you’ve
heard of that book come up I’m not sure
47:23.8
47:27.8
I am familiar with that book I’m curious
did you read that because of this show
47:27.8
47:35.0
yes yes that was one of your most highly
recommended books to read I am honored
47:35.0
47:40.8
that is that is awesome I think it’s so
cool that that you read that because of
47:40.8
47:44.1
this show I’ve heard other people have
done that as well so you just made my
47:44.1
47:50.0
day what are some of the other books so
I nerd it out and listen to astrophysics
47:50.0
47:55.5
for people in a hurry by Neil deGrasse
Tyson and I’ve almost finished but not
47:55.5
48:00.6
quite yet but I’m going to give myself
the credit cat’s cradle by Kurt Warner
48:00.6
48:02.5
Vonnegut
hopefully I’m pronouncing that correctly
48:02.5
48:06.5
that’s that’s the interesting read so
let me ask with seven Habits of Highly
48:06.5
48:10.7
Effective People would you recommend
that book after reading it yeah it’s
48:10.7
48:13.8
it’s interesting I don’t know what
actually on the book was released but
48:13.8
48:18.5
it’s interesting how well it has stood
the test of time I mean the examples
48:18.5
48:23.3
used in the book are very very relatable
he’s definitely gone out of his way to
48:23.3
48:27.5
find some real life situations that can
resonate with the reader and just adds
48:27.5
48:31.5
perspective and if you’re not adding
perspective to your life then you’re
48:31.5
48:36.5
gonna get caught in the loop so
definitely definitely awesome I love it
48:36.5
48:41.5
so obviously in a couple of years
Hollywood is gonna make a movie about
48:41.5
48:48.5
your life who plays late
I chose Christoph Waltz he’s not an
48:48.5
48:53.7
extremely well known name using some
Tarantino movies but he’s a character I
48:53.7
48:58.9
loved him as an actor I would be honored
if he would play the role of lace
48:58.9
49:03.1
Charles in my future inevitable movie
there you go and you know it’s gonna
49:03.1
49:09.1
happen it’s just a matter of time so my
final question is you now have the
49:09.1
49:14.9
ability to talk to anybody throughout
history who to be with and why well I
49:14.9
49:18.4
struggled with this one because I want
to name more than one person if I’m
49:18.4
49:23.7
gonna be absolute it’s probably Michael
Faraday I’m just being an electrical
49:23.7
49:28.5
engineer there’s so many like innovative
scholars through over the course of time
49:28.5
49:33.5
Alan Turing’s another one Maxwell Tesla
I mean there’s so many great people that
49:33.5
49:37.7
I’d love to meet pick their brain but if
you’re narrowing me to one Michael
49:37.7
49:43.8
Faraday all right he had a great cage I
hear all right lay thanks so much for
49:43.8
49:49.5
coming on the show thanks for everything
that you’re doing to raise the water
49:49.5
49:53.7
treatment community and thanks for being
the seven Habits I just think that’s
49:53.7
49:58.3
awesome no thanks thanks for
recommending it pleasure coming on today
49:58.3
50:04.7
trace hopefully the listeners liked it
and if anyone has ideas for things that
50:04.7
50:09.7
they want to be written about on my blog
don’t don’t hesitate to reach out it’s
50:09.7
50:14.7
really a resource for you guys and away
from you to enhance myself so challenge
50:14.7
50:22.0
away and real quick what is the website
again in full policy calm like enthalpy
50:22.0
50:27.1
and then the study of mash them together
well nation you’ve gotta love that a
50:27.1
50:32.7
guest comes on the show and calls
me out for being wrong well it has
50:32.7
50:37.3
happened before I have been wrong and
you know we’re never perfect and
50:37.3
50:41.4
anything that we do we’re definitely not
perfect in water treatment but we
50:41.4
50:46.6
learned from our mistakes and folks I
gotta tell you even when I listen to the
50:46.6
50:53.3
edited copy of episode 46 I knew what I
was thinking even though I didn’t say
50:53.3
50:59.2
those words and I misspoke so of course
I’m talking about the phosphate episode
50:59.2
51:04.2
that I did episode 46 if you all must
show notes page I clarify all that so
51:04.2
51:09.5
immediately when it was brought to my
attention I went and I think what I did
51:09.5
51:15.8
I was thinking RSI and psi those are the
two ones that I use most frequently RSI
51:15.8
51:22.0
there is nurse stability index and I
somehow said LSI which is a totally
51:22.0
51:29.8
different scale RSI and Elysee I did it
again RSI and PSI are the same scale 0
51:29.8
51:36.5
to 12 and then LSI is negative 3 to
positive 3 so if you have any questions
51:36.5
51:38.8
about that
you got two options you got a couple
51:38.8
51:43.5
options actually you can listen to
episode 46 again and know that I miss B
51:43.5
51:48.7
can go to my show notes page on that or
you can go to episode 24 that was my
51:48.7
51:55.4
first questions only show that I did
last year and I actually answered a
51:55.4
52:00.6
listeners question about what LSI RSI
and psi actually is how they’re
52:00.6
52:04.6
different how they’re the same so
there’s an entire episode on that where
52:04.6
52:09.9
I answer that question so sorry for the
confusion but I got to tell you it was
52:09.9
52:14.8
pretty cool when that released I
received on the first day two phone
52:14.8
52:19.3
calls maybe four texts and then the next
day I started getting all these emails
52:19.3
52:24.7
so you guys are listening to what is
going out on the Internet air waves
52:24.7
52:29.8
through the Scaling UP! Nation so I
appreciate that so something I hope the
52:29.8
52:36.8
entire nation got from what Laith was
telling us is that he forced himself to
52:36.8
52:42.3
do things to make himself better at what
he wanted to get better
52:42.3
52:48.0
now he started a blog to start getting
information to anybody who wanted to
52:48.0
52:54.7
read it on things he wanted to know more
about late does a blog I do a podcast
52:54.7
53:01.5
but the reason is the exact same I want
to know everything I can about the water
53:01.5
53:06.4
treatment industry I do that by reading
everything I can get my hands on if I
53:06.4
53:10.4
can talk to an expert in a particular
field in water treatment you better
53:10.4
53:14.5
believe I am going to do that
I have mentors that you guys have met on
53:14.5
53:18.5
the Scaling UP! program that I am
constantly asking more and more
53:18.5
53:24.1
information from them my dad got sick of
how much more information that I needed
53:24.1
53:28.8
I needed it
I always need more information so that
53:28.8
53:33.8
is something that I struggle with on a
regular basis but it has made me better
53:33.8
53:39.2
because I have always tried to figure
out how to go to the next step I realize
53:39.2
53:42.3
when I coach people when I talk to
people especially in the water treatment
53:42.3
53:47.9
industry that they have an issue with
they don’t know what the next step needs
53:47.9
53:52.3
to be so I’m gonna make it very simple
and it comes from the seven Habits of
53:52.3
53:57.5
Highly Effective People the seven Habits
of Highly Effective People teaches us a
53:57.5
54:02.3
technique called third person teaching
and what that is when you learn
54:02.3
54:06.1
something and all you do is learn it and
you don’t have to teach it to anybody
54:06.1
54:10.4
else so you’re not responsible for that
information your brain doesn’t process
54:10.4
54:17.0
it as much as it does if you know that
you are responsible for that information
54:17.0
54:22.5
because you now have to teach that to
somebody else you’re going to listen
54:22.5
54:26.7
better you’re gonna take notes better
you’re gonna ask questions better you’re
54:26.7
54:33.2
gonna process the whole transaction
better to make sure that you know how to
54:33.2
54:38.3
properly teach somebody else the
material that you are learning so I’m
54:38.3
54:42.8
going to suggest that that is the key
when you go to learn something new think
54:42.8
54:47.5
about who you can teach it to but don’t
just think about it make the commitment
54:47.5
54:53.0
that you are going to go to somebody and
say hey I know you’re curious about this
54:53.0
54:57.6
I’m going to a seminar
this and I’m gonna come back and I’m
54:57.6
55:02.0
gonna teach you everything that I
learned when you now go to that seminar
55:02.0
55:06.5
you’re gonna be in a totally different
mindset because you’re gonna be thinking
55:06.5
55:11.0
about how you’re going to convey that
message properly you’re also going to be
55:11.0
55:15.5
thinking about all the questions that
that person is going to ask you that you
55:15.5
55:21.5
are now going to have to answer not just
the questions that you have I promise if
55:21.5
55:28.0
you start doing this it is a game
changer whenever you learn new
55:28.0
55:33.8
information now that being said maybe
it’s not an auditorium of 200 people
55:33.8
55:38.0
maybe it’s a customer maybe you asked
your customer what’s something that I
55:38.0
55:42.9
can help you with and if they know
something that you know or if they want
55:42.9
55:46.3
you to talk about something that you
know you can do that right there but
55:46.3
55:51.7
what if they ask you something that you
don’t know anything about you now have
55:51.7
55:55.6
the opportunity to go learn it and bring
that back to them I’ll tell you I can’t
55:55.6
56:01.7
tell you how many things I have taught
to my wife Stacy for the benefit of this
56:01.7
56:06.9
Stacy could you take your CWT no I’m not
sure I pretty much thinks that that the
56:06.9
56:12.5
answer is no I hope it’s no because I
know that that’s a very difficult exam
56:12.5
56:16.2
she’s a really good test taker though
but you have to know the industry not
56:16.2
56:19.9
just know how to take the test anyway I
don’t know where I got off on that rant
56:19.9
56:25.6
but my suggestion for you is anytime you
learn something change your perspective
56:25.6
56:31.5
from student to teacher something else
that layth mentioned was knowing your
56:31.5
56:35.0
equipment and he was talking about all
the new things that were coming out and
56:35.0
56:39.3
what some common mistakes were and what
some common tips you needed to know
56:39.3
56:46.7
based on what he saw working with people
like us how well do you know the
56:46.7
56:50.6
equipment that you work with now here at
Blackmore enterprises we work pretty
56:50.6
56:55.3
pretty closely with two different
equipment manufacturers we don’t go too
56:55.3
56:59.6
far out of that we do have some other
things on accounts we’ve taken over but
56:59.6
57:04.0
it’s just easier to work with a few
instead of a lot because then you don’t
57:04.0
57:07.7
have to stock a lot of parts and
everybody becomes very familiar with how
57:07.7
57:09.9
things
work so I don’t know if that’s how you
57:09.9
57:14.6
do things that’s how we do things it
seems to work for us but what we also do
57:14.6
57:21.7
is we try to figure out how much stuff
can we actually know about what we are
57:21.7
57:27.0
using and how do we know when we don’t
know something else that’s a weird way
57:27.0
57:31.2
to say that but we’re constantly
challenging ourselves to learn about
57:31.2
57:36.6
what the controller does to learn about
what the pumps do and how we can do
57:36.6
57:42.9
those better so try to do that on your
own try to do that with your company and
57:42.9
57:48.8
I think you will be amazed at how much
you will learn that that piece of
57:48.8
57:54.9
equipment can do that you might not even
realize that it could do also another
57:54.9
57:59.7
thing that I would advise you to do is
to make sure you have a great
57:59.7
58:04.7
relationship with your equipment
provider because they know things that
58:04.7
58:10.6
can help you be a better water treater
when you know the top five things that
58:10.6
58:15.1
you need to be prepared for on every
installation how more efficient are you
58:15.1
58:19.8
going to be at that next installation so
if you haven’t reached out to your local
58:19.8
58:24.9
representative I urge you to do that
whatever equipment company it is and ask
58:24.9
58:31.0
them what should you be doing what
should you prepare for in order to be
58:31.0
58:36.4
better and more efficient well folks I
sure am glad that you are listening to
58:36.4
58:40.5
the Scaling UP! H2O podcast I sure enjoy
bringing it to you and I will talk with
58:40.5
58:47.1
you next time on Scaling UP!