The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
0:08.1
0:12.7
welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast where
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
0:12.7
0:16.9
don’t Scaling UP! our systems
hello Scaling UP! nation Trace Blackmore
0:16.9
0:22.3
here your host for Scaling UP! h2o and
folks it seems like we have an
0:22.3
0:28.1
impossible job we are keeping things
from corroding that want to corrode we
0:28.1
0:32.8
are keeping things from coming out of
solution that want to come out of
0:32.8
0:37.9
solution we’re keeping things from
growing biologically in our systems that
0:37.9
0:44.5
want to grow in the systems and then we
have to deal with all the dirt and
0:44.5
0:50.2
debris that comes in to our water
systems well folks you’ve heard me say
0:50.2
0:57.6
this and our job is we are heat transfer
efficiency managers no matter what it
0:57.6
1:04.7
says on your business card your job is
heat transfer efficiency management
1:04.7
1:12.1
everything else we do is just a bonus
because our simple job is heat transfer
1:12.1
1:18.0
efficiency management now I said simple
but there is nothing simple about that
1:18.0
1:23.3
and folks if you’ve ever seen me present
at the Association Water Technologies or
1:23.3
1:29.6
another venue you know I always talk to
the audience about how they should talk
1:29.6
1:34.7
to the customer about heat transfer
efficiency and water treatment is one of
1:34.7
1:39.5
those things that every customer wants
to know what the price is and how they
1:39.5
1:44.3
can get the price down but that really
doesn’t matter water treatment is cheap
1:44.3
1:50.9
when we do our jobs and that is making
sure that that equipment that we are
1:50.9
1:55.3
treating were called water treaters but
we’re really equipment treaters when
1:55.3
2:00.9
that equipment is clean and it can run
as efficient as possible our water
2:00.9
2:06.2
treatment costs are miniscule when you
compare it side-by-side with the water
2:06.2
2:12.1
savings we can provide and especially
the energy savings that we can provide
2:12.1
2:18.1
so I encourage you always look at
yourself as a heat transfer efficiency
2:18.1
2:24.1
managers and make sure that your client
sees you that way too well one of the
2:24.1
2:28.9
four items that I mentioned at the top
of the show was filtration now
2:28.9
2:34.8
filtration is the non-chemical part of
what we do it’s the synergy where
2:34.8
2:40.9
mechanical meets chemistry and it has to
be there in order for us to be a heat
2:40.9
2:46.8
transfer efficiency manager and do that
job well I have found when I speak with
2:46.8
2:53.3
other water treaters that filtration is
one of those things that is just very
2:53.3
3:00.1
misunderstood I had the opportunity to
meet an expert in filtration I love
3:00.1
3:05.5
having this podcast I have had the
opportunity to meet so many people in
3:05.5
3:10.0
the water treatment industry and I got
to tell you folks I’m learning right
3:10.0
3:15.7
along with you so again if you know
somebody that I need to interview let me
3:15.7
3:21.4
know because I love meeting other
experts new experts in the industry
3:21.4
3:27.6
because we are all learning together and
this show is not going to disappoint I
3:27.6
3:34.1
promise that you will come away looking
at filtration a little bit differently
3:34.1
3:40.5
and have more knowledge for you to talk
with your customers and help them make
3:40.5
3:47.3
better decisions well folks let’s
welcome Brian Hayward my lab partner
3:47.3
3:52.5
today is Brian Hayward and Brian I am
very excited to talk to you today I
3:52.5
3:57.4
talked about filtration a lot on this
show and it’s so awesome to have an
3:57.4
4:03.1
expert about filtration on how are you
today Brian oh I’m great trace and
4:03.1
4:07.2
thanks a lot for having me I’m happy to
be here well I am happy that you are
4:07.2
4:12.8
here as well I think filtration is one
of those things that is either totally
4:12.8
4:16.9
understood by a water treatment
professional or totally misunderstood
4:16.9
4:21.9
there’s very much gray area between that
so I’m hoping with today’s show we can
4:21.9
4:25.9
help a whole bunch of people in the
Scaling UP! nation are you ready for that
4:25.9
4:30.8
I hope so
awesome wait how about you tell the
4:30.8
4:33.8
Scaling UP! nation a little bit about
yourself as we
4:33.8
4:39.0
started sure I’m a chemical engineer
graduate and then I got into water
4:39.0
4:44.0
treatment within a couple of years of
getting out of college and I work for a
4:44.0
4:48.9
major water treatment worldwide water
treatment company for a number of years
4:48.9
4:54.5
and then I went to work as sales manager
for a regional water treatment company
4:54.5
5:01.3
and I did that for a little over
thirteen years so I am basically a water
5:01.3
5:08.0
treatable filtration I can’t think of a
better person to be on this episode for
5:08.0
5:11.8
that reason yeah I’m pretty cut that’s
it I’m comfortable in the world and I do
5:11.8
5:16.6
understand what’s important for a water
treated under stand there is a filter
5:16.6
5:21.5
person when I come in there I the first
thing I ask any potential customers
5:21.5
5:26.6
who’s the water treater what’s his name
and what’s her name and phone number
5:26.6
5:30.9
and I get a hold of the water treat
explain Who I am what I’m doing there
5:30.9
5:35.7
and I asked the waters reader to work
with me and see if we can’t help the
5:35.7
5:41.3
customer out in the process and so
that’s really important because water
5:41.3
5:46.3
treaters are pretty sensitive to the
fact of anybody coming in there and
5:46.3
5:50.1
starting to tell their customer what
they need to do with their water so I
5:50.1
5:54.6
think it’s yeah I think it’s important
too and it’s important for the waters
5:54.6
5:59.6
for you to work with a filter person and
communicate with them and find somebody
5:59.6
6:04.7
they can trust because it’s so important
they have a trusting relationship for it
6:04.7
6:12.0
all work out so after Brian one of the
doctrines that I’ve always lived by in
6:12.0
6:16.9
water treatment is that every system
needs filtration how do you feel about
6:16.9
6:22.1
that well as a why as a Sales Manager in
a water treatment company what happened
6:22.1
6:26.5
to me is when these high-efficiency
filtration systems first came out in the
6:26.5
6:32.2
New England area when I dealt with
problems with water treatment customers
6:32.2
6:37.4
it’s almost always open up a chiller
open up a process piece of equipment
6:37.4
6:41.4
there’s deposition there’s corrosion
everything’s plugged up and everybody’s
6:41.4
6:47.4
mad so that’s usually the problem that I
that caused most of my
6:47.4
6:52.2
wata treaters that work for me to lose
their customers little by little when
6:52.2
6:57.2
people decided to put filters on the
cooling water system suddenly a water
6:57.2
7:02.7
treaty could kind of not do a perfect
job and frequently that is the water
7:02.7
7:06.6
treaters only there maybe once a month
or once a week the customers the one
7:06.6
7:09.8
responsible for maintaining the chemical
levels and when they don’t do their job
7:09.8
7:15.9
they blame the water treat so clean
water makes the water treatment
7:15.9
7:21.8
chemistry work so much more easily it
kind of clears everything out so the
7:21.8
7:28.4
chemistry can do its job so I told all
of my guys that they should tell all of
7:28.4
7:32.1
their customers to get filters on their
cooling towers because it made more
7:32.1
7:36.2
money for the water treaters basically
we didn’t lose anywhere near as many
7:36.2
7:40.8
clients if they had clean water well
there’s definitely a mechanical leg of
7:40.8
7:44.5
what we do as a water treatment
professional where whether we’re using
7:44.5
7:50.1
chemical products or something else to
treat the water we have to have that
7:50.1
7:54.8
mechanical removal of all these
particles that just play havoc in our
7:54.8
7:58.7
system and they make it so it’s
impossible for us to do what we are
7:58.7
8:06.2
hired to do so let’s say that I am at a
cooling tower and I’m trying to decide
8:06.2
8:13.1
what filter needs to go on or let me
even move back further how do I even
8:13.1
8:21.2
know that I need a filter on that
cooling tower okay the the basic concept
8:21.2
8:27.3
with cooling towers I think as we all
know is that they pass water across air
8:27.3
8:32.7
large volumes of air and it allows the
water to evaporate and cool the water
8:32.7
8:37.6
from 95 degrees to 85 degrees or so so
we have to put a lot of air through
8:37.6
8:43.4
water usually most often contamination
and cooling water systems comes from the
8:43.4
8:48.6
particles that are washed out of the air
so any cooling tower is continually
8:48.6
8:53.5
washing dirt out of the air and it
depends on what environment you’re in
8:53.5
8:58.1
how bad that
deposition convenient it also depends on
8:58.1
9:01.8
a lot of like things like cycles of
concentration that you maintain and
9:01.8
9:08.1
things like that but generally a cooling
tower needs to have a filter to pull out
9:08.1
9:12.8
the particulate in there Brian let’s say
there’s a water treat or and he’s
9:12.8
9:17.8
relatively new to the water treatment
industry and he’s right there looking at
9:17.8
9:23.1
the cooling tower and he’s trying to
determine not only if a filter is needed
9:23.1
9:28.8
but how to have that conversation with
his customer what should he do well I
9:28.8
9:33.9
think that usually a customer has to
believe that there is a problem that
9:33.9
9:37.8
needs to be fixed he’s not going to
spend money on a piece of equipment a
9:37.8
9:43.2
filter unless he determines that there’s
a problem that needs to be fixed so if
9:43.2
9:48.3
this is my account and I’m going in
there to look at the cooling tower maybe
9:48.3
9:53.1
looking in the sump to see what that
looks like or looking at a history of
9:53.1
9:59.3
corrosion coupon analysis where is there
any evidence that deposition is causing
9:59.3
10:05.5
a problem with the customer when he
brushes his tubes once a year shut down
10:05.5
10:10.1
work that most people have other tubes
do they have that little slimy feel in
10:10.1
10:16.8
them because biofilm that is the main
cause of problems in cooling systems
10:16.8
10:21.3
with deposition because that’s where all
of the bacteria grows and nucleation
10:21.3
10:26.6
from or settling things like that and it
builds up a film on the on the tube
10:26.6
10:31.0
surfaces or the heat transfer surfaces
and so if you rub that surface it may
10:31.0
10:36.0
look clear because biofilms are
generally clear but if it’s a little bit
10:36.0
10:39.6
slimy then you’ve got a slime on there
that’s like putting a blanket on the
10:39.6
10:45.6
heat transfer surface so it’s along the
lines of finding out from your customer
10:45.6
10:50.3
what their attitude is about the current
situation with particulates in their
10:50.3
10:55.6
system and then explaining to them why
there is a problem that needs to be
10:55.6
10:59.4
fixed by the use of filtration I know
we’re going to talk a little bit later
10:59.4
11:05.1
about ROI and how we can show that
customer that an investment today will
11:05.1
11:09.3
pay them back in the near future but
before we
11:09.3
11:14.6
to that I know there are a lot of terms
out there that deal in the filtration
11:14.6
11:20.1
industry I was hoping that we could
define some of those terms and one of
11:20.1
11:28.4
them is laser particle laser particle
analysis is the use of a analytical
11:28.4
11:35.5
machine to send laser beams across water
that reflect and you can tell like the
11:35.5
11:40.8
size of particles and how many there are
so water treatment companies often have
11:40.8
11:47.1
a particle analyzer or you can send the
particle and out the water sample out to
11:47.1
11:52.9
a lab that has a particle analyzer one
of the things about particle analyzers
11:52.9
11:58.5
is the ones that are most frequently
used cost maybe eight or ten thousand
11:58.5
12:03.3
dollars and they are not particularly
accurate
12:03.3
12:10.9
the ones that are accurate cost maybe
$50,000 or $100,000 so there is a bit of
12:10.9
12:18.0
a problem in actual the actual
technology as far as the accuracy goes
12:18.0
12:23.2
but using if you use the five thousand
dollar particle analyzer you’ll get a
12:23.2
12:27.7
certain read if you put a filter on the
system that weeding will drop way down
12:27.7
12:32.4
and you’ll be able to show the major
removal of particulate so any particle
12:32.4
12:37.8
analyzer will get you the basics
well Brian my question is if we’re going
12:37.8
12:43.4
to sell a filter for a cooling tower is
it absolutely necessary that we have
12:43.4
12:49.8
this analysis done no I usually get it
done just because of my personality I
12:49.8
12:55.4
think I want to know what’s in there and
so it’s not absolutely necessary
12:55.4
13:01.2
particle analysis done most of the time
customer
13:01.2
13:07.4
water treatment customer would make the
decision to buy a filter when he
13:07.4
13:12.9
understands the concept of film
formation on heat transfer services and
13:12.9
13:19.5
the cost of that to him that those those
that approach to dealing with whether or
13:19.5
13:24.0
not I should buy a filter is the key to
getting a filter purchased by a customer
13:24.0
13:29.3
that’s where all the real big money is
transfer efficiency so that’s always
13:29.3
13:34.7
where I head so if you can convince the
customer that they’re paying for this
13:34.7
13:40.4
rather if they realize it or not and the
sooner that they get something to take
13:40.4
13:44.2
all these particles out so they don’t
settle and make their heat transfer
13:44.2
13:48.5
equipment less efficient they’re gonna
start realizing the gain from that
13:48.5
13:53.2
equipment and I used to I used to
calculate that and I’ve got the formulas
13:53.2
13:57.8
for that everything that I’m happy to
like send over to you and you could
13:57.8
14:03.1
distribute it to two people and make
kind of a simple presentation of what
14:03.1
14:08.8
happens when you put biofilm formation
on a heat transfer surface
14:08.8
14:12.6
yeah absolutely I’m gonna take you up on
that we’ll put that on the show notes
14:12.6
14:16.7
page so that way the Scaling UP! nation
can go there and find that okay that
14:16.7
14:22.7
sounds good sure that’s laser particle
analysis usually the other terms of
14:22.7
14:28.1
particle volume particle count surface
area told you suspended solids these are
14:28.1
14:34.3
pretty confusing subjects that you know
that you get when you get a particle
14:34.3
14:39.9
analysis result that can be pretty
confusing and to the customer hand to
14:39.9
14:44.8
the water treated because that’s easily
understood particle volume is the total
14:44.8
14:49.7
volume of of all the particles that are
in the water if you squish it all
14:49.7
14:53.6
together and make all those particles
into one ball that’s the wall you
14:53.6
14:59.9
particle volume the weight of that
particle that big agglomerated particle
14:59.9
15:07.0
that you measured the volume in cubic
microns the volume is the size of it but
15:07.0
15:12.9
the suspended solids measurement is the
weight of it so it’s that ball that you
15:12.9
15:17.9
just put together is made of iron
particles then the TSS is going to be
15:17.9
15:24.7
really high because it’s hard and it’s
heavy if that volume is made up of
15:24.7
15:29.5
pollen and soft materials that come
usually get blown in the air they’re all
15:29.5
15:35.9
usually really fine particles that pull
it around in the air that TSS of that
15:35.9
15:41.1
big ball because it’s really light
material it’s going to be very low so
15:41.1
15:47.2
it’s not the total suspended solids in a
cooling water system is not all that
15:47.2
15:53.0
clear on what’s going on so you want to
know what the total suspended solids
15:53.0
15:57.0
that but in most cooling towers the
solids are low because almost everything
15:57.0
16:05.2
in the water is very fine less than 5
microns and it’s usually softer kind of
16:05.2
16:09.3
material so you don’t get much TSS on a
cooling tower if you’ve got
16:09.3
16:14.9
contamination from the process if you’ve
got river water makeup then you’re gonna
16:14.9
16:20.0
get a lot of TSS and that’s that’s like
a whole different technical problem then
16:20.0
16:26.2
you’ve got significant outside
amination not yeah surface area is
16:26.2
16:31.6
another thing the only reason why I make
a point looking at surface area is that
16:31.6
16:38.3
when you have really fine particles the
surface area on each particle is is
16:38.3
16:42.3
significant and if you push that
particle together into a big particle
16:42.3
16:47.8
the surface area is just the outside of
that balaam rated particle so when you
16:47.8
16:52.5
got a big particle in a cooling tower
the surface area that is nowhere near as
16:52.5
16:58.9
big as a million half micron particles
and bacteria lives on those fine
16:58.9
17:05.1
particles so the more surface area the
more bacteria that’s why biofilm is so
17:05.1
17:09.2
aggressive is that these fine particles
settle and then the bacteria starts to
17:09.2
17:14.6
grow and you’ve got a problem Brian at
the time of this recording I am here in
17:14.6
17:18.7
the South I’m in Atlanta and we have a
pollen problem I don’t mind telling us
17:18.7
17:22.6
get on up nation that and it just wreaks
havoc on all of our cooling tower
17:22.6
17:28.5
systems so if we were to do one of these
laser particle analysis it’s going to be
17:28.5
17:33.6
different this month and say it will be
in September so what do you do about
17:33.6
17:39.9
that it’s a seasonal thing when I like
large clients that have the money to
17:39.9
17:45.3
have particle analyses periodically done
like once a quarter it’s really a
17:45.3
17:50.6
seasonal thing everything changes every
season in any significant system whether
17:50.6
17:54.2
it’s because of the pollen count or
whether it’s because of the temperatures
17:54.2
17:59.2
outside the winter cold weather is going
to have generally gonna have less
17:59.2
18:04.4
particulate in it and less problems with
the water the load on the system is
18:04.4
18:08.6
usually lower in the winter so you’ve
got a the total volume of air going
18:08.6
18:13.0
through a system to be washed out it’s
going to be smaller in the winter in the
18:13.0
18:17.3
spring a lot of times people open up all
kinds of systems that were closed all
18:17.3
18:21.0
winter and when that happens is
frequently a lot of material coming in
18:21.0
18:27.4
so to me there’s always ups and valleys
and jumping way up on particles and way
18:27.4
18:31.2
down with particles the trick is if
you’ve got a filter on there when the
18:31.2
18:36.0
particle loading goes up fairly quickly
a filter within days the filter will
18:36.0
18:40.9
clean up the particulate Lodi bring it
right back the ground 0k well let’s talk
18:40.9
18:46.6
about that next so we now have our
analysis and now it’s time to help
18:46.6
18:52.9
choose the right filtration for our
customer what is that process well I
18:52.9
18:57.6
think it depends on what filter company
you represent so I mean I think
18:57.6
19:03.6
everybody’s got their own points of view
on this people like me I’ve always
19:03.6
19:09.6
worked with high-efficiency filtration
which is filtration of like five micron
19:09.6
19:16.0
and smaller particulate because of the
perception and belief by people like me
19:16.0
19:20.3
the really fine particles are what
caused the problems of cooling water
19:20.3
19:25.8
systems and so that’s what that’s what
most of the particulate is when you do a
19:25.8
19:29.6
particle analysis you’ll see that
there’s millions of particles in the
19:29.6
19:36.3
half micron to two micron range or maybe
thousands or you know hundreds in the 25
19:36.3
19:43.0
micron range so the particles that are
larger than 10 microns or so don’t float
19:43.0
19:48.4
around in the water much they settle in
the self I think the most popular
19:48.4
19:53.9
filtrations that I’ve seen on cooling
towers are either a sand filter or a
19:53.9
19:58.5
centrifugal separator do you mind
talking about what the differences are
19:58.5
20:06.3
between those two sure a centrifugal
separator is a mechanical unit that
20:06.3
20:12.8
depends on spinning the water in causing
a centrifugal force to go outside and
20:12.8
20:17.5
the particulate goes out and then long
rides together and drops down the bottom
20:17.5
20:22.8
it comes out generally a centrifugal
separator is going to take out 70 micron
20:22.8
20:29.2
particles so those are fairly large
particles you’re not removing any of the
20:29.2
20:34.7
pollen for example any of the fine
particulate with a cyclone separator
20:34.7
20:40.2
centrifugal separators so I want to
treat or generally don’t recommend them
20:40.2
20:46.5
but problem is that they’re the least
expensive way for a customer to feel
20:46.5
20:49.8
like he’s removing particulate from this
cooling system
20:49.8
20:54.2
those particles are settling in the sump
normally and the sump is actually the
20:54.2
20:58.9
design in the cooling tower it’s a
design for stagnant water below the
20:58.9
21:03.0
cooling tower so that the particles will
settle in the heavy particles will
21:03.0
21:07.1
settle in the sump and they don’t get
blown around through the system and get
21:07.1
21:13.6
on heat transfer surfaces so is this the
centrifugal separator is not the ideal
21:13.6
21:19.0
for water tree it’s not going to improve
your water tree sand filters are
21:19.0
21:26.4
generally two types most of the sand
filters if the basic type of sand filter
21:26.4
21:33.0
is a point five five millimeter sand
media that’s what a unigram 55 is and
21:33.0
21:39.7
usually that’s the finest sand particle
size that you would put in a single
21:39.7
21:44.6
media or multi media filter because when
you push water straight down through a
21:44.6
21:52.0
filter the spaces in between doesn’t
them sand is where the particulate gets
21:52.0
21:58.6
trapped and if you have true fineness
and then the top surface of the sand
21:58.6
22:02.7
plugs up right away and you keep back
washing all the time so filter media
22:02.7
22:07.7
sand filter manufacturers have had to
limit the fineness of their filtration
22:07.7
22:13.6
to something that’s practical so general
generally get like a point five five
22:13.6
22:20.8
millimeter sand particle will filter
down to around thirty microns which is a
22:20.8
22:28.8
lot better centrifugal separators and
because those larger particles produce a
22:28.8
22:35.6
lot of the turbidity appear it’s in
cooling water the water looks a lot
22:35.6
22:40.1
better when you put a traditional sand
filter on and that sand filth attrition
22:40.1
22:44.3
Santha that removes a significant amount
of particulate there’s no question about
22:44.3
22:49.5
that the high-efficiency filters are a
filter design
22:49.5
22:56.7
maybe it’s probably 50 years old now
those filters on the design of the high
22:56.7
23:01.7
efficient filter is they put 0.2
millimeter sand so that’s compared to
23:01.7
23:08.1
0.55 millimeters
so 0.2 is much finer if you put that
23:08.1
23:14.2
point two millimeter sand in a straight
normal media filter that filter will
23:14.2
23:19.6
plug up right away you can’t you can’t
use that fine saying so this guy I think
23:19.6
23:23.9
the first guy that came up with it was
in Western Mass and he did what he did
23:23.9
23:31.5
is he ran the water crosswise across the
filter bed which rushes the top surface
23:31.5
23:36.2
of the filter bed and instead of short
storing the particulate that’s removed
23:36.2
23:41.5
in the bed which it does in a
straight-through filter a centrifugal
23:41.5
23:48.0
force or cross flow type filter but the
cross flow type filter stores all of the
23:48.0
23:55.2
particulate up above the bed so when yet
during filtration high efficiency
23:55.2
24:01.0
filters are not plugging up the bed
you’re continually brushing the bed when
24:01.0
24:05.2
the area above the bed that’s true full
of particulate
24:05.2
24:10.9
the particulate starts to settle into
the media and the system needs to back
24:10.9
24:15.2
as the that’s the reason why high
efficiency works is because they’re
24:15.2
24:19.5
constantly brushing it’s creating
turbulence on the top of the boat the
24:19.5
24:25.5
bed so half my cologne filtration then
will significantly reduce the pollen
24:25.5
24:31.2
levels all the fine particulate and
biofilm formation so I’ve always liked
24:31.2
24:37.2
my efficient filters but any sand filter
is better than not and I will tell you
24:37.2
24:40.7
Brian we’re dealing with pollen right
now we have a lot of centrifugal
24:40.7
24:44.5
separators that were sold when the
cooling tower was sold to the client and
24:44.5
24:48.8
they do nothing for pollen so you are a
hundred percent right about that yeah
24:48.8
24:55.5
yeah I hate to spike that down play any
kind of anybody else’s equipment in
24:55.5
25:01.1
whatever but that the facts are at 70
micron for centrifugal 30 micron for
25:01.1
25:07.1
single media filter and 0.5 micron for
high-efficiency filter so it’s a
25:07.1
25:12.6
dramatically different result are there
any other filter media types that we
25:12.6
25:16.5
should be looking at for cooling towers
you know everyone’s a while I hear about
25:16.5
25:23.1
some other possible methods but I
haven’t seen anything yet that works the
25:23.1
25:26.9
company I work with has done a lot of
higher D in the last few years and we’ve
25:26.9
25:31.9
developed some designs that we improve
on the high-efficiency filtration
25:31.9
25:37.8
concept and we do have some you know
newer designs out but it’s still cross
25:37.8
25:43.9
flow Russian the top surface of the
media and using fine media I haven’t
25:43.9
25:47.3
heard of anything that works like that
now if you and I were working together
25:47.3
25:53.2
and we were making sure that we put the
right size high efficiency sand filter
25:53.2
25:57.5
on a particular cooling tower what kind
of questions would you be asking me the
25:57.5
26:03.5
the key is what’s what’s the GPM
recirculation rate on the cooling towel
26:03.5
26:07.9
what’s the total water that’s going to
float through the towel what’s the GPM
26:07.9
26:13.5
and you can get that somewhat from the
tonnage if a cooling tower and a cooling
26:13.5
26:18.3
tower designed for a 10-degree delta T
and it’s a
26:18.3
26:25.3
500 ton chiller then the design
convinced a water recirculation rate is
26:25.3
26:30.7
three times the tonnage which is like
1500 GPM but it’s good to go and look at
26:30.7
26:36.0
the pump at the cooling tower and see
what the GPM rating of the pump is and
26:36.0
26:40.5
then the question is if you’ve got
several cooling towers how often do they
26:40.5
26:47.0
all run what is the high low tide during
the warmer months of the year what’s the
26:47.0
26:52.8
percentage load on the cooling tower
because that will tell you what the
26:52.8
26:58.1
amount of bleed rate coming out of the
cooling tower is in order to maintain
26:58.1
27:02.8
particular cycles that the water
treaters got upset at well you bring up
27:02.8
27:08.4
an interesting point I know several
times we’ve been invited to a cooling
27:08.4
27:14.6
tower and install people just set it up
the way it comes out of the box and we
27:14.6
27:20.8
had to dial in the correct backwash
whether it was either on a time which I
27:20.8
27:24.1
don’t like or it was on pressure which I
do like more and I’m hoping you’ll talk
27:24.1
27:28.9
about that we had to dial that in
because we were not able to concentrate
27:28.9
27:34.6
the water up to where we knew that water
needed to be it was back washing more
27:34.6
27:39.3
than it really needed to and we weren’t
able to get the concentration ratio up
27:39.3
27:43.9
to where we wanted it until we made some
adjustments that’s a problem that occurs
27:43.9
27:52.8
when the tower filter uses the tower
water we’re back walk if you use city
27:52.8
27:57.3
water or clean water or any kind of
clean water into the cooling tower
27:57.3
28:03.1
traditional sand filtration should use
the city water and pump that back
28:03.1
28:07.7
through the filter to the drain to
backwash it so the only water you’re
28:07.7
28:11.9
using out of the cooling towers may be
that little bit of water in the top of
28:11.9
28:15.3
the tank when you’re going up the
backwash so that would sound to me like
28:15.3
28:20.8
a system that’s set up to backwash with
towel water Oh Brian I gotta tell you
28:20.8
28:26.0
I’ve never seen a system that has not
been set up to backwash with city water
28:26.0
28:30.3
it’s always been tower water so you are
teaching me something today
28:30.3
28:33.6
only they’re not installed that way so
what do we have to do as the water
28:33.6
28:38.1
treater to get them installed that way
or they’re extra valves that we need
28:38.1
28:44.9
tell us about that well okay so it
depends on who’s buying this build or
28:44.9
28:50.4
who’s working with the filtration
company if the water treater is coming
28:50.4
28:55.1
on on the scene after the purchase of
the filtration system has been made
28:55.1
29:03.5
that’s not a good plan to me I always
recommend city water backwash and in
29:03.5
29:09.8
fact I don’t kind of ever put a filter
on a cooling tower review that uses
29:09.8
29:15.1
coolant I lost a bet it could be just
locally the places where you are have
29:15.1
29:19.3
been sold by a particular filtration
company that doesn’t really know what
29:19.3
29:25.7
they’re doing I shouldn’t say it that
way but the if you never ever use
29:25.7
29:32.4
cooling tower water the backwash and so
when a filter is ordered what a treat ER
29:32.4
29:37.2
and the customer need to say to the
filter act this has to be clean water
29:37.2
29:43.7
back washing sometimes you take water
from the filtered water and put it into
29:43.7
29:49.8
a tank that will be enough to cover one
backwash and you keep that tank leveled
29:49.8
29:58.5
up with water from the filter but you
absolutely can’t use do you have to
29:58.5
30:02.1
worry about biological fouling when you
store water like that
30:02.1
30:06.3
well it’s only going to be there for a
day or so the filters designed that I
30:06.3
30:10.6
always recommend the Spyros backwash
goes because it needs to be set on a
30:10.6
30:15.4
time up to backwash once a day if it
hasn’t back washed in the last 24 hours
30:15.4
30:20.8
so it needs to backwash every 24 hours
and and the reason for that is that in
30:20.8
30:27.5
the in the media the particulate is in
there is full of bacteria and that if
30:27.5
30:31.4
you leave that bacteria in there for
three or four or five days we’re going
30:31.4
30:37.1
to plug up the filter bed in the filter
ass that has to be replaced so now
30:37.1
30:41.6
should be done a minimum of every 24
hours to be sure you don’t get bio
30:41.6
30:48.5
growth in the filter tab and then the
real control on backwash is whenever the
30:48.5
30:53.1
pressure differential gets up to a
limiting point the filter automatically
30:53.1
30:59.5
goes in the bathroom so generally the 24
hour backwash timer doesn’t even get
30:59.5
31:05.4
used but it needs to be there in case
something isn’t going right there it’s
31:05.4
31:10.1
got to be back washed every 20 bucks
now you mentioned media fouling so we
31:10.1
31:16.0
have regular backwash that’s cleaning
the media but now eventually the media
31:16.0
31:21.2
gets worn out we’ve got if we got to
replace it what is that process like and
31:21.2
31:27.2
how often should we be doing that if the
filters operated properly in that is 24
31:27.2
31:32.2
hour back washing that never goes more
than 24 hours then met most of the
31:32.2
31:37.0
filter beds that I work with go 10 years
without be able to flex you don’t need
31:37.0
31:42.7
to replace filter media if you don’t get
bio filming if the filters set up
31:42.7
31:48.1
properly in the beginning and everything
is all set then filter doesn’t need to
31:48.1
31:52.7
have the media replaced unless
somebody’s doing something they
31:52.7
31:58.6
shouldn’t be doing so that’s the key to
that but media when media is replaced
31:58.6
32:03.9
every maybe 10 years or whatever we
generally take an industrial vacuum
32:03.9
32:08.6
cleaner and suck the media either they
have all the water is still wet open the
32:08.6
32:13.6
cap let off the pressure open a cap let
it drain down to near the top surface of
32:13.6
32:17.3
the media and you use an industrial
vacuum just suck that stuff out of there
32:17.3
32:22.7
and put it in drums or barrels or
whatever and dispose of it and then the
32:22.7
32:30.0
new media is is poured back into the
filter we do that a lot it’s not a not a
32:30.0
32:34.3
particularly big project right
especially carried wet sand nobody
32:34.3
32:39.7
nobody enjoys that at the very bottom of
the filter itself they’ve got the
32:39.7
32:43.6
laterals and I know whenever you take
media out you’re supposed to inspect
32:43.6
32:50.9
those what are you looking for broken
laterals if those laterals are crack
32:50.9
32:55.3
a broken or severely plugged then you
need to deal with it you need to clean
32:55.3
33:02.0
them up or replace them in recent years
most everybody uses stainless steel mesh
33:02.0
33:08.7
as the laterals on the bottom of the
filter the older plastic design they’re
33:08.7
33:11.9
more likely to break but if you’ve done
everything correctly they don’t they
33:11.9
33:15.1
don’t break either so it’s just a matter
when you
33:15.1
33:20.2
I hardly ever have to replace laterals
they’re not it’s not but something you
33:20.2
33:24.4
need to look at because if your laterals
I broke and you liable to get media
33:24.4
33:28.2
flowing through your filter and out down
the drain
33:28.2
33:33.4
potentially even into the into the cool
toilet so it’s important that the
33:33.4
33:37.0
laterals be inspected and that they’re
okay which is why I generally use
33:37.0
33:41.8
stainless steel I don’t use plastic
that’s a great tip now I’ve worked with
33:41.8
33:47.3
people that say regardless of what the
manufacturer says and some manufacturers
33:47.3
33:51.7
say all you have to do is go back with
the sand media they say regardless of
33:51.7
33:56.6
that you should put some sort of support
media down in there first what are your
33:56.6
34:01.1
feelings on that well I just generally
would do what manufacturers say but I
34:01.1
34:07.8
think there’s always is always support
media gravel type material that’s used
34:07.8
34:11.5
to cover up the laterals to keep the
laterals you can get plugged up with
34:11.5
34:18.5
sand we have different layers of media
in the filter to keep the fine media
34:18.5
34:23.8
that is used for filtration away from
the laterals that’s that’s why you put
34:23.8
34:27.9
the stones in there in there and it
protects the laterals physically from
34:27.9
34:31.9
any damage because you got rocks on top
of everything now where is the best
34:31.9
34:37.7
place to install a sand filter on a
cooling tower our preference is to put
34:37.7
34:45.3
it on a recirculation line generally
like we put a stab in down stream and
34:45.3
34:50.1
bring that out to the filter run it
through the filter and put a stab in 6
34:50.1
34:56.1
feet or so downstream from that point
and what that does is it allows the
34:56.1
35:00.2
water that comes into the filter and
goes out of the filter the pressure on
35:00.2
35:05.0
the filter in and out is the same
because it’s on the line 6 feet
35:05.0
35:10.2
and so what that does is when you design
a filter you design it with a particular
35:10.2
35:14.4
pump in a particular head to get a
particular block gallons per minute
35:14.4
35:20.6
through the filter and so if you’ve got
varying pressures in and out of the
35:20.6
35:25.8
filter that means you have to add valves
adjust pressures and the rest and and
35:25.8
35:31.8
it’s very hard to control filter flow
rate through the filter unless you’ve
35:31.8
35:36.1
got pressure the same in and out of the
filter so that’s what we generally
35:36.1
35:38.9
design but you know there are when
things change
35:38.9
35:44.4
piling is it’s nice to have a filter
engineer kind of person there who’s
35:44.4
35:47.3
going to look at the thing and explain
what to do with everything water
35:47.3
35:53.1
treaters shouldn’t be responsible to
tell people how to do these things they
35:53.1
35:57.8
always go water treaters always go to me
and say okay how do we do this and I
35:57.8
36:01.8
explained to the person who’s installing
it exactly how they have to install it
36:01.8
36:06.0
and we provide drawings of the rest but
communication that’s really important
36:06.0
36:11.4
when something’s installed incorrectly a
filter will not work now I’ve seen the
36:11.4
36:16.2
use of sweeper jets around the cooling
tower Basin to try to keep things
36:16.2
36:22.4
stirred up can you speak a little around
that sure it’s it’s opinion I guess in
36:22.4
36:27.1
my mind the design of a cooling tower
sunk the reason why there’s this big
36:27.1
36:31.3
sump there that’s maybe 12 inches deep
or whatever the reason why that sump is
36:31.3
36:36.0
there is because when you bring a lot of
particulate into a cooling tower from
36:36.0
36:41.0
the air the bigger stuff you don’t want
it to go into the system you want it to
36:41.0
36:46.3
settle in some so blowing the water
around in the bottom of the sump to keep
36:46.3
36:51.2
the sump clear makes it look better to
the customer but you’re taking you’re
36:51.2
36:56.0
not removing the particulate you’re
sending it into the system and the idea
36:56.0
37:00.2
that you’re if you’ve got suction in the
sump and that you’re actually going to
37:00.2
37:06.3
be sucking the particulate out it’s just
not rational not technically accurate
37:06.3
37:13.2
it’s not when you create turbulence in
the sump the large you know thousand
37:13.2
37:17.2
gallon a minute flow rate out of the
bottom of that sump is taking all that
37:17.2
37:20.4
particulate out of there
your hundred gallon a minute filter is
37:20.4
37:26.0
not removable that particulate is going
where the flow rate is so it’s all going
37:26.0
37:31.4
in the system so technically I don’t
agree with using the sump sweep concept
37:31.4
37:37.8
it’s a it was a nice idea and it
actually helps people size filters
37:37.8
37:43.4
because they just do it based on if they
put a certain number of jets in the sump
37:43.4
37:48.3
of the cooling tower then the size of
the filter is defined by that it’s not
37:48.3
37:54.2
defined by the basic concept of like how
much particulate loading is there type
37:54.2
37:58.2
of system do you have the size of a
filter should not be defined based on
37:58.2
38:03.9
some sweep system I don’t ever recommend
some sweep system well the customer is
38:03.9
38:09.6
always looking at the bottom of the
cooling tower Basin and some look at it
38:09.6
38:14.2
more than others and I always say if
there’s any more than a quarter inch of
38:14.2
38:20.6
debris on that base and it is past due
for cleaning so the question is and the
38:20.6
38:26.1
customers going to ask this if I put
this filter on can I extend the amount
38:26.1
38:29.4
of time that I have to clean my sump or
some might even ask
38:29.4
38:33.3
can I just forgo cleaning my sump
altogether now that I have this
38:33.3
38:40.0
filtration yep that’s a good question
the the end result of doing this is that
38:40.0
38:45.7
the particulate that’s settling in the
some particulate comes into the cooling
38:45.7
38:50.4
tower act like a half a micron most of
the stuff that’s floating around the air
38:50.4
38:55.3
is like two microns down a half micron
in some finer so what’s floating around
38:55.3
38:59.2
in the air is really fine so when that
particulate goes into the cooling water
38:59.2
39:04.5
it leaves and flows out through the
whole system as time goes along and
39:04.5
39:08.7
these particles you get more and more
particles in the water they agglomerate
39:08.7
39:15.0
and as they agglomerate the water
becomes more turbid and then the sump
39:15.0
39:19.3
begins to to do its job of it
particulate settles out there but it’s
39:19.3
39:24.1
also settling in the heat transfer
surfaces so whenever you add a high
39:24.1
39:29.4
quality sand filter to a system the
particle loading in the sump drops by
39:29.4
39:35.9
eighty ninety percent
so any customer that has a particle
39:35.9
39:40.2
loading situation in the sump is going
to find some to be quite clean after he
39:40.2
39:45.0
puts a particular as the source of the
deposition that’s been taken away by a
39:45.0
39:51.9
side student filter so an example that I
had a cogent plant and Hatford that you
39:51.9
40:00.7
can tell my Boston accent in Hartford
where they were every year when they
40:00.7
40:05.3
cleaned out the sump they were up to
their knees in mud and sludge and they
40:05.3
40:12.0
hated it barrels and barrels stuff to
remove and I told them that I thought
40:12.0
40:17.0
that you would reduce the amount of
sedimentation by putting a filter on
40:17.0
40:20.3
there but I really you never know
exactly how much you’re going to remove
40:20.3
40:24.4
it by because if there’s a lot of heavy
solids coming in in the air which there
40:24.4
40:29.4
shouldn’t be then we could have some
deposition anyway but what what happened
40:29.4
40:33.9
to them is the first year after they put
the same filter in they ended up going
40:33.9
40:39.5
into the sump to clean it and they
squeegeed it no heavy sludge at all they
40:39.5
40:45.3
absolutely love the filtration system so
if you have heavy some particles some
40:45.3
40:51.9
bloating it will significantly reduce
that and I wouldn’t make promises to my
40:51.9
40:54.9
customers but I would just say yeah
you’re gonna be a much cleaner or
40:54.9
41:00.9
something let’s see how it goes but the
reason for buying a sand filter is not
41:00.9
41:05.4
so you can clean the sump less people
that’s a nice thing but that’s just some
41:05.4
41:10.9
maintenance expenses very short term a
few days where these particles when they
41:10.9
41:15.7
go into the cooling system and he hit
the heat transfer services they reduce
41:15.7
41:20.6
heat transfer and they put many many
thousands of dollars a year in
41:20.6
41:25.8
electrical use increased electrical uses
what happens when you have particle
41:25.8
41:29.7
loading and so I keep bringing my
customers back yeah we want to reduce
41:29.7
41:33.8
the maintenance but the key is you’re
gonna save a lot of money with the
41:33.8
41:40.5
electrical load changes improvements and
I got a lot of data and sheets on that
41:40.5
41:44.5
that people can look at too I can
provide all that when we look forward to
41:44.5
41:47.9
putting some of those
on the Scaling UP! show notes page the
41:47.9
41:53.8
CTI paper that i did it’s pretty old but
what the filtration technology hasn’t
41:53.8
41:58.3
really changed so that paper you have
that you and you’re welcome to put that
41:58.3
42:03.7
in the notes that’s about twenty pages
of everything I know about CN filtration
42:03.7
42:08.6
so there’s a lot of stuff in there but
you want to be educated and people
42:08.6
42:12.6
you’re welcome to put my name and phone
number up there and let water treaters
42:12.6
42:16.2
give me a call they have yeah we’ll
definitely put your contact information
42:16.2
42:20.0
if you’re on any social media we will
have that on the show notes page as well
42:20.0
42:25.3
Brian what’s the one thing you want the
Scaling UP! nation to get out of today’s
42:25.3
42:30.7
interview if you have clean water it’s
going to help the water treatment
42:30.7
42:38.4
program keep the heat transfer surfaces
clean and with minimum corrosion if they
42:38.4
42:43.0
try sand filters they’re gonna love them
high efficiency sand filters I think is
42:43.0
42:46.9
a better deal but you know it depends on
you know situation and who you’re
42:46.9
42:52.3
working with in the rest well I sure
appreciate you giving some of your
42:52.3
42:56.3
filter knowledge to the Scaling UP!
nation but before I let you go I do have
42:56.3
43:01.9
some lightning round questions for you
so are you ready for these oh god yes
43:01.9
43:07.6
all right so the first one is if you
could go back in time and speak to
43:07.6
43:13.6
yourself your first day as a water treat
what advice would you give I would
43:13.6
43:19.0
encourage people to like I would have
told myself don’t give any advice that
43:19.0
43:24.2
you’re not sure about tell people I’ll
get you the answer to that so and I did
43:24.2
43:29.5
don’t hide that your no I just would go
into my customers when I was first in
43:29.5
43:33.9
water tree around and say look I know
some chemistry I know some basic things
43:33.9
43:39.2
about chemical water treatment I know
what to do but I don’t know the systems
43:39.2
43:44.1
like you do so if if you can help me out
with explaining certain things to me I
43:44.1
43:47.4
really appreciate it
because if you make your customer a
43:47.4
43:52.6
person who helps and teaches you you got
a friend if you go there to give advice
43:52.6
43:57.7
to people and tell them how to do stuff
people don’t like that you know your
43:57.7
44:02.4
customers would rather have
yeah okay I love that advice that’s
44:02.4
44:08.3
awesome what’s the last book you’ve read
Oh Jeep as I read mystery novels all of
44:08.3
44:13.7
the time and I study technology online
and I haven’t really read books on
44:13.7
44:19.3
technology in a long time because any
question I have if I go online I can ask
44:19.3
44:23.5
the question technical yeah the
Internet’s just ruined book industry for
44:23.5
44:28.0
forever right yeah well not for
technical stuff anyway for me and you
44:28.0
44:32.9
know for pleasure reading you know
that’s that’s I still download the books
44:32.9
44:37.0
I read them on my phone but yeah
everything’s on the internet now
44:37.0
44:40.7
anything technical that I need to know I
can get on the Internet the moment well
44:40.7
44:44.6
eventually Hollywood’s going to find out
about you they’re gonna make a movie who
44:44.6
45:09.2
played you who plays me oh my god Nick
Nolte yeah we definitely didn’t see him
45:09.2
45:12.6
come out today on the interview and I
think that’s a good thing he’s yeah yeah
45:12.6
45:19.3
yeah you know he’s yeah crazy character
he’s my alter ego there you go my last
45:19.3
45:23.5
question is now you can talk with
anybody throughout history who to be
45:23.5
45:27.6
with
and why Albert Einstein theory of
45:27.6
45:32.5
relativity I did a paper on it in high
school and I’ve always been enthralled
45:32.5
45:40.3
with that technical stuff since then Oh
Brian I want to thank you for coming on
45:40.3
45:44.1
Scaling UP! filtrations one of those
things that i think most people know
45:44.1
45:49.0
they need to have if they didn’t know
they definitely know it after this
45:49.0
45:54.6
interview but you have shared so much
information to help shed light on every
45:54.6
46:00.2
water treaters need to know which is
filtration thank you so much for that
46:00.2
46:06.5
nation I know that you got something
from that interview I really think that
46:06.5
46:12.5
I could have Brian on other topics of
filtration he just knows his stuff Brian
46:12.5
46:17.8
thank you so much for coming on Scaling UP! h2o and sharing with the Scaling UP!
46:17.8
46:22.7
nation some of the things that we need
to be aware of when it comes to
46:22.7
46:28.8
filtration now folks as you know as a
water treaty we never stop learning as
46:28.8
46:34.0
you’ve heard me say my dad used to tell
me all the time that day I thought I
46:34.0
46:38.7
knew everything and water treatment was
the day I needed to get out of water
46:38.7
46:44.0
treatment and that told me from a very
early age that we never stopped learning
46:44.0
46:49.2
here and what a great industry to be in
where there’s so much information out
46:49.2
46:55.7
there for us to learn that we never have
to stop and I tell you when I feel like
46:55.7
46:58.0
I’ve learned everything about a
particular topic
46:58.0
47:03.7
I get bored folks I have never been
bored a day in my life as a water treat
47:03.7
47:10.7
and it is because there’s just so much
stuff out there for us to learn next I
47:10.7
47:16.0
encourage each and every one of you to
look for what the next thing is that you
47:16.0
47:22.5
are going to learn and with that in mind
we do have a WTS annual convention and
47:22.5
47:27.8
Expo coming up it’s going to be
September 11th through 14th in Palm
47:27.8
47:34.6
Springs California now folks if you’ve
never been to an AWT convention and Expo
47:34.6
47:40.2
I got to tell you you’re missing out
every person that sells anything that
47:40.2
47:45.5
you could possibly need when it comes to
water treatment equipment is going to be
47:45.5
47:52.0
there it is the one-stop shop for you to
talk to every single one of your water
47:52.0
47:58.0
treatment vendors it is such a value
packed event because you can go to one
47:58.0
48:03.5
place and have dozens of conversations
the other thing is there’s going to be
48:03.5
48:08.6
so many expert presenters there and
they’re presenting on topics that are
48:08.6
48:13.0
going to elevate what you currently know
about those top
48:13.0
48:18.4
they’re going to allow you to get back
to your respective territories and be
48:18.4
48:22.5
better water treaters because you’re
coming back with this new information
48:22.5
48:28.9
you’re also going to have ideas of
things that you can solve based on these
48:28.9
48:34.0
presentations and then of course the
most important thing that so many people
48:34.0
48:41.6
leave out is you are in a venue of
people that do exactly what it is that
48:41.6
48:45.3
you do and I talk to people and they say
well yeah that’s my competition I don’t
48:45.3
48:51.1
want to talk to them folks get over that
you are missing such an opportunity when
48:51.1
48:56.3
can you ever go anywhere and tell
somebody what it is that you do as a
48:56.3
49:01.1
water-treatment professional and they
truly understand what you’re telling
49:01.1
49:04.8
them and not think that you’re a pool
guy our work down at the local sewer
49:04.8
49:11.8
everybody in this convention hall knows
exactly what it is that you do and you
49:11.8
49:17.7
can get some tremendous friendships if
you just introduce yourself I’ve had
49:17.7
49:21.2
many of my friends on the show you guys
know I’ve had Marc Lewis on several
49:21.2
49:26.3
times Marc Lewis and I do not go a day
without speaking with each other
49:26.3
49:31.2
well maybe we might go too but if that’s
not often and I would not have met Marc
49:31.2
49:38.1
had I not have gone to the awt
convention and Expo and actually two
49:38.1
49:43.1
times ago when we were in Palm Springs
where I met Marc so how about that we’re
49:43.1
49:47.3
gonna celebrate the place where we met
each other and I’ve had several requests
49:47.3
49:51.9
people have wanted Marc to come on again
so Marc and I have spoken with each
49:51.9
49:56.8
other so that will be in the near future
but folks please take advantage of
49:56.8
50:02.7
everything that the AWT or any venue
where you’re coming together with like
50:02.7
50:08.3
people that you’re getting everything
out of it well folks so many of you and
50:08.3
50:12.6
the Scaling UP! nation have come up to me
and or sent me an email and said thanks
50:12.6
50:17.8
so much for letting me know about
audible I’ve actually been able to read
50:17.8
50:23.3
books again and I know better than
anyone as a water treaty we are behind
50:23.3
50:28.4
the wheel so
so why not have a podcast for the water
50:28.4
50:33.3
treatment community and you folks have
been so gracious in downloading and
50:33.3
50:40.2
telling people about the Scaling UP! h2o
podcast but you’ve also learned that you
50:40.2
50:44.9
can use your car as your personal
Learning Center through the podcast but
50:44.9
50:50.0
then also through using tools such as
audible audible is a service that allows
50:50.0
50:56.5
you to read while you’re driving
audible allows you to study again it
50:56.5
51:01.0
allows you to learn more and it allows
you to do it on your own terms
51:01.0
51:06.5
during your regular day you don’t have
to change how your day is you can just
51:06.5
51:12.3
insert this into your day today
now if you go to Scaling UP! h2o com
51:12.3
51:16.7
forward slash audible I can get you a
free month and a free book where you can
51:16.7
51:21.5
try audible out now that’s an affiliate
site for me and what that means is it
51:21.5
51:26.5
will cost you absolutely nothing extra
to go to that site but audible and
51:26.5
51:30.8
thanking me will pay me a slight
commission I thank all those people that
51:30.8
51:34.2
have done that and I think all the
people that have gotten back to me and
51:34.2
51:39.0
said what a great tool it is I’m trying
to make sure that anything I let you
51:39.0
51:43.9
guys know about that it has helped me
personally or it has the potential to
51:43.9
51:50.3
help the Scaling UP! nation the thing I’m
going to ask you for next is I need your
51:50.3
51:56.4
topics what do you want to hear on
Scaling UP! h2o and who do you want me to
51:56.4
52:02.3
interview next folks I’m doing a great
job of staying ahead of that curb but
52:02.3
52:08.3
once I pass that threshold I don’t want
to run out of material please help me
52:08.3
52:12.3
with this request and you can go to my
show notes page Scaling UP!
52:12.3
52:17.8
h2o com you can go directly to the show
notes page or you can click on the voice
52:17.8
52:23.1
mail button and you can actually leave
me your information there and what I’d
52:23.1
52:27.5
love for you to do is ask me a question
that I can answer on one of our pinks
52:27.5
52:32.8
and blues episodes well folks thanks so
much for tuning in and I am looking
52:32.8
52:35.5
forward to speaking with you next week
on
52:35.5
52:38.4
Scaling UP! h2o