The following transcript is provided by YouTube. Mistakes are present. To hear the podcast episode, click HERE.
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welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast for
water treatise where we’re Scaling UP! on
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knowledge so we don’t scale up our
systems
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hello Scaling UP! nation my name is Trace
Blackmore and I am your host for Scaling UP!
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0:31.2
h2o folks I have to tell you there
are so many people out there that get in
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0:35.8
touch with me and they say they enjoy
this show they say they enjoy the show
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because one they feel like they are no
longer an island even though they are
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0:46.8
separated from their fellow water
treaters on their day to day servicing
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0:53.1
account to account they can turn on
Scaling UP! h2o and they know that they
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are part of a community they are part we
are part of this Scaling UP! nation we
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need to celebrate that that is so
awesome I appreciate everybody who is
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written in who is called in who has told
me in person that they personally feel
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that they are part of a community and
folks I am just so excited about that
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1:24.5
another reason that people will talk to
me about Scaling UP! is that they get to
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1:33.3
learn more about their craft in their
day to day now most of us we learn by
1:33.3
1:37.9
talking with people or reading
information well folks we can’t do that
1:37.9
1:43.1
on our regular day to day because we’re
driving from appointment to appointment
1:43.1
1:47.8
we’re talking to customer to customer
and it’s just not conducive to stop
1:47.8
1:54.4
everything that we’re doing and read a
book well folks I’ve told you about this
1:54.4
1:59.2
before and I’m going to tell you about
it again the way I started reading again
1:59.2
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was with audible I am busy driving
around and I live in Atlanta so it takes
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five times longer than it needs to get
anywhere because of the traffic that we
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2:17.1
have but traffic’s okay it gives me time
to read you
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I Drive and read how do I do that I do
that with audible audible is a service
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that has so many book titles on it and
it allows you to listen as you go
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through your day today many of you have
said that you have tried this service
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and you are sold on it and you have been
able to start reading again if you would
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like to try it I can get you a free book
and a free month by simply going to
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2:55.3
Scaling UP! h2o com forward slash audible
I know you will love this service as
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3:00.9
much as I do well I mentioned that so
many people out there love this show
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3:07.8
because they get to learn more about
water treatment a couple of episodes ago
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3:16.4
I spoke about corrosion and how we deal
with corrosion in our day to day well
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3:22.8
today I’m going to continue that theme
but today we’re going to be talking
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3:30.9
about scale and what scale is what it
does why we care about it and how we’re
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3:38.0
able to do something about it before I
start talking about scale I want to talk
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3:45.5
about what a water treatise job is we
treat water we have to know one the
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3:51.0
amount of water that we are treating to
treat it correctly but we also need to
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3:57.8
know the equipment that that water is
going to see so we can predict what is
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4:02.3
going to happen so that means one we
need to know the volumes of our systems
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4:08.9
but we also need to know every piece of
equipment that our treated water is
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4:13.6
going to touch and I can’t tell you how
many water treaters I’ve worked with
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4:18.7
that don’t know how much water is in
their system and then they have never
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4:25.7
ventured outside of the mechanical room
to see all the pieces of equipment that
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4:29.7
they’re treated water comes in contact
with
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4:36.4
so please do yourself a favor and make
sure you know every piece of equipment
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4:40.7
that you’re treated water comes in
contact with now that I’ve said that
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4:46.5
let’s talk about water we know that
water is the universal solvent water
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4:52.8
against anything else given enough time
water will win it will dissolve it
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4:59.5
that’s the only thing that it knows to
do is to dissolve everything and it will
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5:05.9
so when we get water it’s important to
realize that we don’t just have water
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5:11.8
when we turn on the faucet it’s not just
water it’s water and stuff and we’re
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5:15.7
going to talk about where that stuff
comes from it’s very important that we
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5:20.6
understand that only pure water
evaporates leaving it’s solids behind
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5:30.4
and then when it condenses and it starts
to rain it is now water water in its
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5:37.1
liquid state will dissolve everything so
as it’s falling through the sky it is
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5:43.0
dissolving all the gases it comes in
contact with when it hits the ground its
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5:49.4
dissolving everything it comes in
contact with as it percolates down or it
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5:55.4
runs off into a lake or stream so when
we get water I mentioned before it’s not
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6:02.3
just water it’s water and stuff and that
stuff is three different categories it’s
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6:09.7
dissolved solids suspended solids and
dissolved gases it’s very important that
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6:16.0
we realize that each one of those three
items will make it more difficult for us
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6:20.4
to treat water and in fact if you’ve
heard me talk about what a water treaty
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6:28.6
AAB is we have to slow down corrosion we
have to prevent scaling ie things coming
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6:34.9
out of solution we have to make sure
that the biologicals and the systems
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6:40.4
just don’t grow rampant and then we have
to do something about the general
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6:46.5
dirt and debris in the system so now
let’s look at those categories that we
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6:50.2
just talked about we said only pure
water evaporates leaving it’s solids
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6:55.8
behind but when it becomes water and it
condenses and it starts to rain it
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7:00.1
starts to dissolve everything it
dissolves all the gases it dissolves
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7:03.7
everything it comes in contact with and
the three categories are dissolved
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solids suspended solids and dissolved
gases well the dissolved gases those are
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things like carbon dioxide oxygen
ammonia sulfur dioxide hydrogen sulfide
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all these various things these are
getting dissolved in the water then we
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7:28.1
have suspended solids suspended solids
or the soil the decaying matter certain
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minerals oil microorganisms clay all
this stuff the water has not had a
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7:39.1
chance to dissolve yet it’s just going
on for a ride and then there’s this
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7:43.5
stuff it has dissolved and those are the
dissolved solids those are things like
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7:50.1
calcium magnesium alkalinity silica
sodium chloride sulfates iron
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7:55.0
bicarbonates carbonates I think you get
the idea and I think you have picked up
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8:01.3
that these are the tests that you are
running on you’re treated accounts well
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we need to know what is dissolved in
that water because there’s only so much
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that the water can hold before there is
an issue or the conditions of the
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8:22.4
systems change and then we form scale so
those four items that I mentioned that a
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8:29.5
water treaty has to deal with come from
the fact that water has water and stuff
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8:36.4
in it so the dissolve gases well they
enhance corrosion we’re never going to
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8:41.1
solve corrosion corrosion something
we’re always going to deal with but we
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8:46.6
can severely slow it down when we have a
bunch of dissolved gases in the water
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8:52.3
that’s going to increase the potential
for corrosion the suspended solids well
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8:56.4
that’s all
the dirt and debris that we get in the
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9:02.3
system that eventually there lays down
on a heat transfer surface or it creates
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9:07.2
another problem in the system so that’s
where the dirt and debris comes from or
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9:12.8
the suspended solids and amongst those
are microorganisms so those are coming
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9:17.0
right in with the makeup water or we’re
pulling those in if it’s a cooling tower
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9:22.6
right in as the cooling tower operates
with the air and now we have to deal
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9:28.3
with those the last one was the scale
component and that’s why we do all of
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9:31.7
our tests we have to know what’s in the
water
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9:37.1
what’s dissolved in the water how much
can we hold of that particular substance
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9:42.5
and now maybe we can put a product in it
to extend that but that’s where our
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9:48.7
scale comes from you put all those items
together and you put a good professional
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9:53.0
water trader out there and they should
be able to treat that water pretty darn
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9:59.5
well so let’s get right in our
conversation about scale it’s important
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10:05.9
for us to realize we have to know the
water that we are treating or we cannot
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10:11.9
treat it I can’t tell you how many
service reports that I have seen from
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10:15.9
either companies I’ve worked with or
customers that have shown me service
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10:21.6
reports and they don’t have the make up
water on the report folks if you don’t
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10:25.3
know what make up water is well maybe
you need to listen to some more episodes
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10:29.5
of Scaling UP! but what that is that’s
the water that’s coming into the system
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10:33.9
so that’s the water right out of the tap
we have to know what we’re starting out
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10:39.2
with in that water and that can also be
called raw water I’m trying to think of
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10:43.0
there any more names we like to
complicate things in water treatment so
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10:45.9
they’re probably ten or twenty other
names for that but those are the two I
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10:50.5
can think of we have to know what’s in
the water what we’re starting out with
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10:57.5
so we know what to expect as we
concentrate up the water and it’s also
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11:03.1
important to know that if I test an
account in this city and I move over to
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11:05.6
another city it’s not necessarily going
to be this
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11:10.9
water in fact if I test water on a
particular Street and then I go across
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11:16.8
the street it might even be different so
how do you know well you know because
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11:22.9
you test and we even have some accounts
that change their water source so they
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11:28.0
could be something one day and the next
day there’s something completely
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11:31.7
different they’re getting water off of
the city and then they’re changing over
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11:38.2
to a well so by no means is being a
water treaty ever easy but we have to
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11:42.8
understand certain things we have to
understand that water is unique to the
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11:48.1
location that we are at until we prove
otherwise and the only way we know is to
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11:54.5
test and now that we know what’s in the
water we can predict what is going to
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12:01.6
happen in the system using that water
now only pure water evaporates leaving
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12:06.5
its solids behind I’ve said that a
couple times already but that’s very
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12:11.3
important for a water treaty to
understand because we have to deal with
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12:16.9
all those solids that are left behind
and eventually they are going to create
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12:21.6
an issue and we have to be able to
anticipate that a term that has been
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12:28.1
used for decades is cycles of
concentration and cycles of
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12:33.4
concentration is how many times a volume
of water has evaporated and refilled and
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12:37.0
evaporated and refilled and evaporated
and refilled and that’s an area that
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12:42.3
would have been three cycles of
concentration of three it’s evaporated
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12:50.2
and refilled three times I will tell you
I personally do not like the term cycles
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12:54.4
of concentration it’s perfectly
acceptable if you’re talking to another
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12:59.8
water treater but I can’t tell you how
many customers that I’ve spoken with and
12:59.8
13:05.8
I’ve said cycles of concentration I’ve
explained exactly what it is and then
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13:10.3
when they try to explain it back to me
they’re thinking it has something to do
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13:14.8
with the recirculation rate of the
system I can’t tell you how many times
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13:19.0
that’s happened so what I like to do
when I train people and I’m teach
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13:24.5
somebody a topic I like to use words
that explain themselves so I don’t use
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13:29.7
cycles of concentration I use
concentration ratio because that
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13:34.2
explains itself what is the
concentration ratio of the cooling tower
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13:42.0
it’s seven well that means that it has
evaporated and refilled its volume seven
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13:48.4
times and whatever I test in the make up
water in reference to the cooling tower
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13:55.8
the cooling tower should be seven times
as concentrated as what I tested in the
13:55.8
13:59.8
makeup water the term just makes sense
and when I explain it like that I know
13:59.8
14:05.7
it makes sense however I’m talking to
water treaters if I’m not talking to a
14:05.7
14:11.8
water treated a may not understand the
concept that there’s a bunch of solids
14:11.8
14:16.5
dissolved in this clear water well I
can’t see it it’s just water when it
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14:21.5
gets evaporated everything goes away so
what I like to use is I like to bring
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14:27.0
cooking into the conversation because I
guarantee you everybody has started to
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14:33.3
boil a pot of water on the stove been
distracted the water evaporates out and
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14:39.1
they have a crusty substance on the
bottom of that pot and that is all the
14:39.1
14:43.7
dissolved solids that used to be
dissolved in that water until all the
14:43.7
14:48.0
water evaporated leaving at solids
behind and that’s exactly what you are
14:48.0
14:53.6
seen on that pan when you can tell
people that they immediately get it and
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14:59.5
they understand so our job as a water
treaty is to conserve as much water as
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15:08.0
we can we need to know how far we can
extend our concentration ratio without
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15:15.3
creating an issue and the issue is water
will be fine holding a particular
15:15.3
15:22.6
substance in solution up to a certain
point when it hits that certain point we
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15:29.5
get nucleation and nucleation is that
first little crystal that begins another
15:29.5
15:32.8
crystal that begins another crystal and
a domino effect
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15:40.4
that ultimately creates scale now when
you think of scale I want you to think
15:40.4
15:46.6
of insulation now we all live in a house
and we probably have paid somebody or
15:46.6
15:50.8
we’ve done it ourselves to make sure
that we have enough insulation up in our
15:50.8
15:57.0
attic when we are heating and cooling
our homes we do not want that heat or
15:57.0
16:04.2
coolness to escape so we insulate that
in well folks our job as water treatment
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16:11.3
professionals is we are heat transfer
efficiency managers and that means that
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16:17.5
because we are reducing the potential
for corrosion were making sure things
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16:21.6
don’t scale we make sure things don’t
accumulate too much when we talk about
16:21.6
16:26.5
microbials and I set it that way on
purpose because we are not sterilizing
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16:30.6
the system I know we’ve talked a lot
about Legionella but Legionella is up
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16:35.6
and above a regular water treatment
program more to come on that in future
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16:42.8
episodes and then we’re also taking care
of the dirt and debris that’s in the
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16:45.6
system so those are the four things that
we’re taking care of as a water
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16:51.0
treatment professional but because we
are doing that we’re making sure that
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16:55.4
heat transfer that’s taking place in the
system which is the only reason they
16:55.4
17:01.1
have that equipment in the first place
is as efficient as it possibly can be if
17:01.1
17:07.6
we have scale on any heat transfer
surface it’s acting like that insulation
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17:13.7
in our attic but now it’s making it more
difficult to transfer heat and in our
17:13.7
17:18.3
house that’s exactly what we want but in
a heat transfer system we want that to
17:18.3
17:23.8
be as easy as possible because we want
to take the heat from a place where we
17:23.8
17:28.7
don’t want it and send it off to a place
that we do not care about it anything
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17:34.7
that comes in contact in between that
process that is going to impart more
17:34.7
17:41.0
energy to do the same job if the system
were clean so clean systems mean more
17:41.0
17:45.7
efficient systems so when you think
about scale I want you to think about
17:45.7
17:48.9
insula
station and think that it’s costing more
17:48.9
17:53.8
money to transfer the heat because I do
not have a clean system and folks if
17:53.8
18:00.7
you’ve never thought about it that is
where we earn our worth to our customers
18:00.7
18:05.8
so think about it I’m gonna try to do
some visual math here so if you will in
18:05.8
18:08.8
your mind’s eye think about what I’m
saying here
18:08.8
18:15.7
so make sense to you but I know you have
customers out there that wants you to
18:15.7
18:21.6
lower your price somebody’s always
cheaper you need to lower your price
18:21.6
18:26.5
well I was thought a long time ago
there’s price meaning what you pay for
18:26.5
18:32.6
something and then there’s cost and the
cost is looking at what you’re paying
18:32.6
18:38.5
for but all the things that that one
thing you’re paying for is doing and
18:38.5
18:43.5
that’s what we’re gonna look at right
now so what is the value that us as
18:43.5
18:50.0
water treaters can demonstrate to our
customers so we said a clean system is
18:50.0
18:55.5
an efficient system a dirty system
obviously is not as efficient so let’s
18:55.5
19:03.3
say we have a 1/100 of an inch of
calcium carbonate scale on our heat
19:03.3
19:07.5
transfer surface unless say we’re in a
cooling system here specifically a
19:07.5
19:13.6
chiller well that’s really small that’s
about the thickness of a sheet of paper
19:13.6
19:21.0
1/100 of an inch so that’s not a lot of
scaling if we were to look at it but the
19:21.0
19:27.3
fact of the matter is if you were to do
your math to figure out what calcium
19:27.3
19:33.7
carbonate will cost as far as increased
energy it will reduce the efficiency of
19:33.7
19:39.4
that machine by 10% that means that
Shiller has to work ten percent harder
19:39.4
19:45.0
to overcome the insulative value of that
calcium carbonate to transfer that heat
19:45.0
19:48.8
so it can get the heat from a place
where we don’t want it to send it to a
19:48.8
19:52.6
place where we don’t care about it well
folks let’s go ahead and prove this with
19:52.6
19:59.7
some math so we’re going to look at a
500-ton chiller running 24 hours a day
19:59.7
20:03.5
three
and sixty-five days a year
20:03.5
20:11.3
at about 0.6 kilowatts per ton and
they’re paying seven cents per kilowatt
20:11.3
20:16.6
if you do the math straight across with
that you’re gonna find out that they are
20:16.6
20:22.1
paying a hundred and eighty four
thousand dollars a year to run that
20:22.1
20:25.8
chiller now that’s considering that it’s
a full load but for this example let’s
20:25.8
20:31.2
go ahead and consider that if we reduce
the efficiency by ten percent because of
20:31.2
20:36.2
that 1/100 of an inch of scale 10
percent of a hundred and eighty four
20:36.2
20:42.7
thousand is 18 thousand four hundred
dollars now one of the benefits that I
20:42.7
20:47.0
have with working with the association
of Water Technologies is different
20:47.0
20:51.7
regions will charge different amounts
not that everybody charges the same
20:51.7
20:55.5
thing not that there’s any price-fixing
going on but they’re the markets out
20:55.5
20:59.7
there and the market will bear a certain
amount from one region to another and
20:59.7
21:05.9
that’s determined based on how they are
treating the water is there more stuff
21:05.9
21:09.6
in it that they have to deal with can
they concentrate it up more can they
21:09.6
21:16.0
concentrate it up less so with all of
that if we look coast-to-coast a 500-ton
21:16.0
21:22.3
system like that would be somewhere
between 6,000 and 12,000 dollars roughly
21:22.3
21:30.3
with that if they are doing their job
properly they should be saving that
21:30.3
21:35.1
eighteen thousand four hundred dollars
so let’s take the top end of what that
21:35.1
21:39.9
water treatment cost was so twelve
thousand dollars is what they’re paying
21:39.9
21:44.9
for somebody to come out and do a water
treatment program well they’re now
21:44.9
21:51.4
saving eighteen thousand four hundred
dollars and folks that’s the magic with
21:51.4
21:56.0
what we do
they cannot transfer heat as efficiently
21:56.0
22:01.8
as that equipment kind of transfer the
heat without us doing what we do the
22:01.8
22:09.4
problem is so few of us talk about that
and what happens is we now compete
22:09.4
22:14.8
against each other because of
folks it’s not about price it’s about
22:14.8
22:21.9
how good of a water treatment are you
making the system so when we talked to
22:21.9
22:27.0
customers we want to make sure that they
see our value and they know that if a
22:27.0
22:33.1
professional like us are not doing their
program they are going to suffer because
22:33.1
22:38.5
they’re not going to get that optimal
heat transfer efficiency so if you’re
22:38.5
22:43.0
not talking to your customers that way I
think you need to and if you can’t prove
22:43.0
22:48.9
that you’re doing that you need to start
asking questions like why why am i doing
22:48.9
22:56.5
the tests that I am doing why am i doing
these calculations why am I having these
22:56.5
23:00.7
conversations with a customer and why do
I need this piece of equipment on the
23:00.7
23:05.8
wall all these things they’re all adding
up to the fact that you’re running a
23:05.8
23:11.6
program to maximize the heat transfer
efficiency and if you can talk to a
23:11.6
23:16.9
customer in terms of heat transfer
efficiency management and what you are
23:16.9
23:21.9
overall saving them because you are
charging them for your water treatment
23:21.9
23:27.4
program they will get it and they will
not be so sensitive when somebody else
23:27.4
23:32.6
says that they can do it for 15 bucks
cheaper a month Scaling UP! nation you
23:32.6
23:39.4
know that I get the ideas for this show
because of the people out there in the
23:39.4
23:45.5
Scaling UP! nation folks like you either
email me or they go to the webpage
23:45.5
23:51.7
Scaling UP! h2o com and they go to the
show ideas page and they send me show
23:51.7
23:56.8
ideas another thing you can do is go to
our web page and you can leave us a
23:56.8
24:04.1
voicemail if you do that and I use your
question on Scaling UP! h2o I will send
24:04.1
24:09.7
you a Scaling UP! t-shirt so many people
have gotten these Scaling UP! t-shirts
24:09.7
24:15.0
and they’ve sent me pictures than
wearing them and I promise you will be
24:15.0
24:20.1
the envy of all your water treatment
friends with a t-shirt like that so
24:20.1
24:25.3
please help me get one in your
hands please keep those questions coming
24:25.3
24:33.2
we are coming up on our hundredth
episode it is so hard to believe that
24:33.2
24:41.1
just a little over two years ago I
started Scaling UP! h2o and folks we are
24:41.1
24:47.3
over ten thousand subscribers now we’re
in over sixty countries and that doesn’t
24:47.3
24:53.0
happen without people telling other
people that they need to listen to
24:53.0
24:56.9
Scaling UP! h2o
so I appreciate that our job is not done
24:56.9
25:02.2
your job is not done I really want to
try to get this as big as possible
25:02.2
25:08.1
because I think that’s gonna help us all
as a water-treatment community so when
25:08.1
25:14.2
you’re talking to a fellow water treater
by all means bring up Scaling UP! h2o and
25:14.2
25:18.9
make sure that they know how to
subscribe to that well folks it’s hard
25:18.9
25:24.0
to believe it’s been an entire year
almost since the AWT had its annual
25:24.0
25:30.8
convention and Expo well it’s coming up
very quickly the 2019 AWT annual
25:30.8
25:36.2
convention and Expo is going to be
September 11 through 14 if you have
25:36.2
25:41.4
never been to an association of Water
Technologies convention I promise you
25:41.4
25:48.8
you are missing out there is so much
stuff there in fact if you are a water
25:48.8
25:52.9
treatment company owner and you’re not
coming to this you are missing a
25:52.9
26:00.0
tremendous opportunity how often can you
go into a room and every single person
26:00.0
26:07.4
every single vendor that you will ever
need to buy from is in that room not to
26:07.4
26:12.6
mention there are other people that are
walking that exhibit hall with you that
26:12.6
26:18.6
are having the same exact issues that
you are having and there’s no reason
26:18.6
26:23.5
that you guys can’t talk about it and
figure out what one has done what
26:23.5
26:28.2
another has done so you don’t repeat
each other’s mistakes and you can start
26:28.2
26:32.7
solving solutions now for those of you
that don’t own a water treatment company
26:32.7
26:35.2
but you work for a water treatment
company
26:35.2
26:39.8
that’s what you’re gonna do you’re gonna
go around the exhibit hall and you’re
26:39.8
26:45.3
gonna think what are the big issues that
are happening in my company and what’s
26:45.3
26:51.0
one product in this huge exhibit hall of
a hundred vendors that I can take back
26:51.0
26:57.8
that will solve or hopefully begin to
solve one of the issues that I am having
26:57.8
27:02.1
I promise you as a water treatment
company owner if you can went to one of
27:02.1
27:06.4
those and I spent money to send you and
you came back with information like that
27:06.4
27:12.9
I would be ecstatic but don’t stop there
you’re gonna see people that are your
27:12.9
27:20.1
peers and folks you cannot go into a
regular room and say I’m a water treat
27:20.1
27:24.0
or I want everybody to do that the next
party they go to just scream I am a
27:24.0
27:29.2
water treat and see what happens people
are gonna look at you like you’re crazy
27:29.2
27:34.2
and they’re gonna have no idea what that
means they’re gonna thank you work at
27:34.2
27:39.2
the local sewer or you’re a pool
professional well that’s not exactly
27:39.2
27:46.9
what we do I promise if you yell I am a
water treat a cross the AWT convention
27:46.9
27:51.8
hall floor everybody will turn around
say yes so what so am i I wonder if
27:51.8
27:54.6
somebody will do that that’ll be fun I
want to get in trouble for this by the
27:54.6
28:02.8
AWT I can tell but the point is you are
amongst people that understand what you
28:02.8
28:09.0
go through day-to-day when you start to
meet those people and you start sharing
28:09.0
28:16.5
ideas you are going to get tremendous
ideas to take back to your company to
28:16.5
28:23.1
take back to your regular day-to-day
things that may just make everything
28:23.1
28:28.8
that you do a little bit easier so by
all means take advantage of that and for
28:28.8
28:34.4
those of you that are going you should
be able to download the agenda of the
28:34.4
28:39.0
Convention and you can see all the
technical papers that are going to be
28:39.0
28:44.5
presented this year when you do that you
can now plan where
28:44.5
28:48.8
you want to be and you can even bone up
on some of the information that they are
28:48.8
28:53.9
going to talk about so you get even more
out of those presentations folks you
28:53.9
29:00.4
can’t afford not to go to the aw T
convention and Expo September 11th
29:00.4
29:06.1
through the 14th and folks I’m going to
be there I hope to see you there and by
29:06.1
29:12.8
all means if you see me let me know that
your listener Scaling UP! I love to meet
29:12.8
29:16.5
people out there in the Scaling UP!
nation and I’m even gonna be doing some
29:16.5
29:21.1
recording I’m gonna be seen what are
some of the new things that are coming
29:21.1
29:25.0
to the water treatment industry that
could help us do what we were just
29:25.0
29:28.9
talking about how can we use some of
these new ideas these new technologies
29:28.9
29:36.1
to make our day to day easier so maybe
I’ll even interview you we won’t know
29:36.1
29:41.0
unless you come up to me and introduce
yourself folks one thing’s for sure I
29:41.0
29:46.0
love bringing this show to you and I
will talk at you next week on Scaling UP!
29:46.0
29:48.8
h2o