78 Transcript

078 The One with The Waste Water Guy (Part 1)


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welcome to the best and most listened-to
water treatment podcast out there

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0:19.5

Scaling UP! H2O folks my name is Trace
Blackmore I am the host of Scaling UP! H2O

0:19.5

0:23.6

of course it’s the podcast where
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we

0:23.6

0:29.4

don’t Scaling UP! our systems and folks I
am so humbled of all the people out

0:29.4

0:33.4

there that are telling other fellow
water treatment professionals about

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Scaling UP! H2O we are having tremendous
traction in getting new water treat or

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stone t’stop if you know somebody that
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them know how they can subscribe to it
as you know because you all helped me so

0:54.5

1:00.0

much with material and letting me know
what the show needed to cover we are now

1:00.0

1:05.7

coming at you each and every week and I
love doing that I love answering your

1:05.7

1:11.1

questions I love it when you guys let me
know exactly what it is that you want me

1:11.1

1:15.2

to talk about and of course I’m gonna
ask for it again so go to Scaling UP! H2O

1:15.2

1:22.5

com leave me a voicemail and I could
play a your voice on the next episode of

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1:26.6

Scaling UP! asking me that question of
course if I do that you will get the

1:26.6

1:33.3

awesome Scaling UP! H2O t-shirt everybody
wants one how do you get one will you

1:33.3

1:37.6

leave me a voicemail message well maybe
you don’t want to do that you can go

1:37.6

1:43.8

ahead and go on my show ideas page and
let me know what questions you have

1:43.8

1:51.2

folks we are going to talk to an
individual today who has been requested

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1:57.3

by many out there in the Scaling UP!
nation to come back of course I am

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2:04.8

talking about Kevin cope waste water
treated straw dinair if you have never

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2:10.5

met Kevin in person I tell you he can
tell a story he’s got his Pittsburgh

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2:16.3

accent he’s got the biggest personality
that you’ll ever meet and he’s just such

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2:21.4

a nice guy and I tell you one of the
things that I want to do is

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2:28.6

make the industry better and I will say
that I have seen Kevin do this it’s one

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2:33.8

of the reasons that he teaches
everything that he knows to anybody who

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2:39.1

asked like myself it’s one of the
reasons that he teaches what he does to

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2:44.9

the Association of Water Technologies he
is able to tell a story like no other he

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2:50.6

can paint a picture in your mind so when
he is telling you about what he is

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2:57.3

teaching you can visualize it like you
are there Kevin you are amazing of

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3:03.1

course you’re also amazing because you
are sharing that information with the

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Scaling UP! nation folks I know you are
going to love this interview I know that

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3:13.5

you are not gonna want to stop this
interview when you get to your next

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account you’re probably gonna sit in the
parking lot and wait for it to finish I

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3:22.3

love it when you guys share stories
about that I’m sure this is one of them

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I hope I know I don’t need to hope that
you are going to enjoy this interview

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with Kevin cope
my lab partner today is returning

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Scaling UP! H2O guests and water
treatment professional wastewater

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3:45.3

treatment professional Kevin cope of
Brent AG North America how are you Kevin

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never better trace never better thanks
for asking

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never better that is the term that the
Scaling UP! nation absolutely loves and

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they also love Kevin coke because I have
received so much positive feedback when

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you came on for water treatment week and
you talked about what wastewater is so

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4:13.0

many people called me or emailed me and
said they want more of what wastewater

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4:17.6

is so thank you so much for coming on
the show and giving the Scaling UP!

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4:22.1

nation what they’re asking for well
listen my pleasure at a great time is

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4:25.7

really an honor to be able to give that
information to everybody and again I

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thank you for having me so it was a
great thanks well I appreciate you doing

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4:36.7

it we’re gonna talk a lot about the
complete wastewater process and what a

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4:42.4

water treatment professional can and
should do today but before we get there

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4:45.9

we’re recently seeing each other of
course we’re recording this and we’re

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4:49.8

going to air it later but we recently
saw each other at the association of

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4:54.1

water technologies annual convention and
Expo so I want to ask you how did that

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go for you went very well I mean had a
great time my wife was able to join me

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5:03.7

it was actually my last the meeting on
the board got to say goodbye to

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everybody at the end of that but I
thought was an excellent convention we

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had a way to kind of is from a from a
business standpoint brent AG standpoint

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had a great convention got to meet
everybody we wanted to meet and meet

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some new folks and it just was fun it
was a just a lot of fun for everybody

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involved little hot but it’s fun for
everybody

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yeah Orlando was a little bit warm so
were you on the golf course I know I you

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5:34.1

know I’m an artist then people say why
are you an artist then my answer is I’m

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an artist because it keeps me off the
golf course so that’s that’s my answer

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yes that’s what I heard well people
were melting on that golf course it was

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hot I wasn’t out there either but that’s
when you ask people hey how’d you play

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they’d say it’s hot so that’s the answer
yeah that’s what I heard I also am $50

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richer because of Brent AG North America
now I I enjoy marketing marketing

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something that I always get into so when
I see signage I want to see what they’ve

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done because quite frankly if it’s good
I want to copy it and I’m reading all of

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the signage and I’m reading everything
that Brent tag North America can do on

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one of their signs and I see chili
cheese fries and I was like what what

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are they talking about I come up to you
and I ask you are you guys now selling

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chili cheese fries you start busting out
laughing and how about you continue the

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story from there well it was actually my
boss gentleman named Brian Liotta who

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came up with the idea because you know
we obviously have meetings prior to the

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conference what do we want to achieve
who do want to meet with things along

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this line and and Brian is always trying
to you know look at different ways and

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it you know the signage and we had the
opportunity to put the sign on that one

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pole and Brian came up with the idea
let’s put chili cheese fries on there to

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just see if anybody is really reading
the signs and so we we came up with that

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idea I should say Brian came up with
that idea Barbara lost nine from our

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offense group but to put it on the side
we put it up and lo and behold I was

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sitting with Brian when you walked my
and you were the very first person to

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come up and say something and it could
not have been tried any better trace I

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mean you know Brian these big grin on
his face when he thought somebody

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actually is reading the sign so it
that’s what it came from was us sitting

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around and saying do people really read
these signs and lo and behold we got

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confirmation that someone to us we
actually had three people that came up

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to us and you know said that they had
seen that but that’s how that all

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started was just a bunch of people
sitting around trying to come up with

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some ideas how could we make this a
little more interesting and that’s how

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that occurred so thank you because if
you could not have picked a better time

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and a better situation to say
something about the about the chili

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cheese fries well Kevin I love that idea
that’s so solution-oriented you guys are

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wondering you know you’re spending all
this money on the advertising of course

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the space to put the advertising on is
anybody actually looking at this what

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can we do as a company to get some
feedback to see if they are looking at

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that I love that that’s
solution-oriented thinking well thanks

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and like I said I that’s that I give all
credit to Brian Lyon on that one that

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was Brian’s idea and it’s very very well
received so and again thank you for for

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seeing it we really appreciate that so
well thank you for the $50 Visa gift

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about $50 worth of chilli cheese fries
now there you go there you go so I’ll

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probably go to the vortex have you been
to the vortex in Atlanta you don’t you

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know you don’t mean you don’t mean these
the big skull oh no I was thinking of

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the varsity no I’ve not been to the
vortex I’ve been to the varsity well the

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varsity would also be a good place for
the chili cheese fries so both of those

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would would work so when you’re in
Atlanta next we’ll get some chili cheese

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fries at one of those places of your
choice would look would look forward to

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that would look forward to that all
right so let’s get to the episode issue

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and we’ve got a lot of listeners out in
the Scaling UP! nation that do wastewater

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treatment and we have probably just the
same amount that don’t do wastewater

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treatment but they want to or they’re
just starting so Kevin what I’m hoping

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that we can do is visually paint for the
Scaling UP! nation what we need to do

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step-by-step of course in a general
sense because we’re not in a particular

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plan and paint that picture for what
people have to do and what they can

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expect during a wastewater survey okay
we can do that we can do that let me

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start you up so we are now getting out
of our car we’ve pulled up to the plan

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of course we’ve had the conversation
going up to that customers location now

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we park the car we’ve probably looked at
things as we drove in now we’re outside

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of the car we might be grabbing
equipment what are we doing and take us

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from there well let’s I mean just by one
we’ll just be real clear

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that we’ve already talked with the plant
and we know exactly what their needs are

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they need to meet discharge limits they
need to reduce costs they need to reduce

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the amount of sludge of generating so
we’ve already found that out that has

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already been done and now we’re going
into the plant for the first time to

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survey the plant and run some tests and
and understand you know how can we help

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this customer so we’re at that point now
because we went through a lot of that

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10:39.4

when we did the last podcast the
preliminary information that you need to

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10:45.2

obtain before you start to run a test so
we’re past that so when you walk into

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10:48.5

the plant for the very first time
obviously you go through all the safety

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10:53.3

requirements make sure you have the
proper PPE make sure you’ve signed in

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10:57.1

all the specific documents you need so
you’re walking into the plant for the

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first time and each plant is going to be
different but one of the things that

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you’re gonna find out is every time you
tour a plant the person that’s taking

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11:11.3

you on the tour will tell you this is
the most unique thing you’ll ever see

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11:16.0

and I’ve been doing this for 40 years
and I can count on one hand and one

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finger the only most unique thing I’ve
ever seen but at the same time it’s

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unique to them because they don’t have
the opportunity to see all these

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different facilities so you know yes it
is very unique to them but that’s their

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only one single point of reference so
I’m always cautious to say wow that is

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11:36.8

really you make up you know I’ve never
seen I’ve seen something similar to that

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11:41.8

but just be aware of that that that’s
one thing that that that the customers

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will tend to you know tell you that this
is the most unique thing you’re gonna

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see and so we do we do is you know I do
the wastewater training for the AWT and

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11:57.6

we we do a section on walking people
through the plant and if you look at a

11:57.6

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typical waste treatment plant they’ll
have some of these they’ll some they

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12:07.0

won’t have something we’ll have some
will be continuous some will be bad but

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12:11.1

some of the areas that we’re going to
focus in on talking about or what’s

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called screening equalization primary
treatment biological treatment sludge

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thickening sludge dewatering and
filtration so those are the what is it

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one two three four five six seven
things that you potentially can see in a

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plant again not every plant will have
this but every plant could have this and

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12:36.9

so when you just start thinking about
you know the original diff the first

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12:41.3

thing you’re going to come into is
screening and what screening is there’s

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12:46.9

really an area where you’re taking out
the big things the the the large pieces

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12:52.5

of maybe a piece of pipe that falls into
the plant or somebody’s hard hat or

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12:58.1

gross amounts of oil or gross amounts of
heavy solids and we call that screening

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and that’s really done just to keep any
of this real big stuff from coming into

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the plant screwing up you know pumps
plugging up piping so you know it’s

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13:12.8

called screening sometimes it’ll be
nothing more than a big open pit

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sometimes they’ll actually be screens
and and all that’s designed to do again

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13:23.4

is to get the big junk as it were out of
the out of the waste water so again

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13:26.6

that’s the first thing and typically
they’re you know you really aren’t going

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13:31.4

to do any testing it’s just it’s there
just to remove things and then the next

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13:35.8

the next really important area you’re
going to come to is what’s cool is a

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13:41.6

ssin and what equalization does is it
basically takes and equalizes not only

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13:46.6

the flow of the water but all the
contaminants and Dave Ritz does a really

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13:52.4

great job of explaining equalization and
if you would think of like waves real

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13:57.0

high waves like you see in when
somebody’s recording music and it’s been

13:57.0

14:00.7

I’m sitting here drawing it was my
finger in the air but the waves are very

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14:04.9

very high and up and down up and down
and then it comes with equalization tank

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14:08.7

and then at the other side of
Equalization tanks those waves are very

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very small modest not as widely spread
and really what the equalization tank is

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doing is equalizing the flow and
equalizing the contaminants and the

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14:26.6

reason that that’s important is as those
contaminants come in or the flow and

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14:30.2

you’re trying to treat those you’re
constantly if you don’t have good

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14:35.1

equalization you’re constantly turning
up or turning down your pump you know

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14:39.0

and and it makes for a very very very
difficult

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14:45.5

treatment program if the equalization is
not adequate or even in place and a lot

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14:50.4

of times that’s one of the biggest
problems that we see is people just

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14:54.6

don’t have adequate equalization so you
know if I’m being real clear on that but

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14:59.3

it there’s there you know that sometimes
we can feed chemical into the into the

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15:06.2

equalization but for the most part it’s
really just there to equalize the flow

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15:09.7

into the plant alright sure I think that
makes perfect sense

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yeah and that’s really a very very
important you know part of a treatment

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plant that we see even if it’s a bad
treatment or if it’s continuous and you

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15:21.7

know the difference obviously with
batches you fill the tank up before your

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15:24.1

chemicals in a lot of the reactions to
occur

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15:28.1

continuous is the waters flowing
continuously into your facility and

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15:32.1

you’re treating on a continuous basis
then the water is being clarified

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15:37.9

through some kind of a continuous
operation so that’s kind of the next

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15:42.2

step is equalization so screaming
equalization and then we have what we

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15:46.5

call primary treat and this is really
kind of where the rubber hits the road

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15:52.6

you have either a dissolved air
flotation and induced air flotation

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15:58.6

clarifier it can be a circular clarifier
it can be a rectangular clarifier it can

15:58.6

16:03.9

be a parallel plate clarifier also known
as lamella so every place will differ on

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16:10.4

what their primary clarification is and
I do you want me to explain all of those

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16:14.9

or is that is that sufficient Tracy I
think that’s great but if you’re willing

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16:19.1

yeah add you keep the Scaling UP! nation
okay well okay let’s talk first about

16:19.1

16:23.0

dissolved air flotation and you also
hear bubble air flotation now various

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16:26.2

other names for it
but with dissolved air flotation what

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16:30.6

happens is we take some of the waste
water usually clean waste water coming

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16:35.2

off the end of the system put it into a
pressurization tank and then release

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16:39.5

that water from outside from the
pressurization tank where it’s mixed

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16:44.6

with air and I live in Pittsburgh and so
in the summer times and in the fall we

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16:49.1

will get water and we’ll pour it from
our tap and there will be white bubbles

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16:52.0

very very tiny bubbles that will come
the

16:52.0

16:56.9

talk and that’s what it dissolved there
the this daf dissolved air flotation is

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17:01.8

designed to do is they create these
micro very fine bubbles and have those

17:01.8

17:06.9

bring the solids to the top of the unit
where it’s then skimmed off so that’s

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17:11.1

what’s called a dissolved or a gas air
flotation their units that are designed

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17:17.0

to by the use of air to bring the solids
be an oil be it light solids to the top

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17:22.4

where it can be skimmed off a clarifier
does just the opposite a clarifier is

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17:27.0

designed for the particles to come to
the bottom and at the bottom then

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17:31.9

there’s some kind of a rake system that
rates the solids out of the clarifier

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17:38.0

and those are typically used when the
solids are a little heavier I I actually

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17:44.5

treated at a bowling ball facility years
ago they actually had a dissolved air

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17:48.9

flotation tank in a bowling ball
manufacturer now those things are heavy

17:48.9

17:54.6

right yeah yeah yeah I was the comments
race was really you’re you’re trying to

17:54.6

17:59.9

float bowling balls and I mean this day
I still laugh about that way but it you

17:59.9

18:03.2

know but you know I’d always make this
comment when you see something like that

18:03.2

18:07.2

there’s always a salesmen out selling
the equipment you have to remember that

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18:11.7

that you know there’s somebody that sold
this piece of equipment and he must have

18:11.7

18:16.4

been a pretty darn good salesman to sell
a flotation system and do a bowling ball

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18:21.4

facility but but typically what you do
is if the stuff and begin to end

18:21.4

18:24.8

engineers do this but if if the
materials will settle you use a

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18:30.0

clarifying a clarifier is just a big
open area where the solids can settle to

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18:34.4

the bottom and then their scrape they’re
raped off the bottom of the off to

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18:39.4

clarify what what the industry has also
done and they just it’s going to be very

18:39.4

18:44.1

common now or what are called parallel
plate separators or lamella it’s kind of

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18:49.4

like calling tissue Kleenex lamella
clarifiers and what those are are is a

18:49.4

18:54.5

series of plates and I apologize I don’t
know the angle there’s a specific angle

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18:59.7

that these plates are put in and the
water is forced up these plates and what

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19:04.9

that does is helps with separation you
also get contact with the sludge that

19:04.9

19:08.8

hits the plates be
the particles larger and makes them

19:08.8

19:13.2

settle out and so the reason those are
nice is they really and we in our

19:13.2

19:17.4

industry you know the AWT market you’re
going to see a lot of those because they

19:17.4

19:22.1

take up a fairly small footprint
compared to circular or our square

19:22.1

19:27.0

rectangular clarifiers so you either
gonna bottom line here you’re either

19:27.0

19:31.8

gonna float the material or you’re gonna
let it sink so it’s going to be one of

19:31.8

19:35.7

the two it’s either gonna float or sink
and you have plans that doesn’t go

19:35.7

19:38.5

anywhere and you got a problem but
typically it’s you know it’ll either

19:38.5

19:42.9

float or sink and that’s called primary
clarification and in those applications

19:42.9

19:48.6

this is where you feed your coagulants
and your flocculants and what you’re

19:48.6

19:53.2

trying to do with a coagulant is you’re
trying to neutralize very very very tiny

19:53.2

19:57.7

particles if you think of these tiny
particles as being magnets and in the

19:57.7

20:01.4

water and they all have negative charges
and they’re bouncing off of each other

20:01.4

20:06.0

and they don’t want to come together we
put in a coagulant be it an inorganic or

20:06.0

20:12.1

organic coagulant and what it does is it
neutralizes those charges and now allows

20:12.1

20:17.4

for those particles to come together and
become bigger you also hear the word pin

20:17.4

20:21.2

flock create a pin flock well they’re
particles are a little bigger but

20:21.2

20:26.0

they’re still not as big as we want them
to be to either sink or to float they’re

20:26.0

20:30.0

there but but at the same time they will
eventually sink or float much quickly

20:30.0

20:35.1

much more quickly than they would if
they weren’t coagulated so now we have

20:35.1

20:40.0

these little pin flocks created we then
feed a flocculent which is if you think

20:40.0

20:45.4

of it as being a long chain of pearls
and on the pearls then maybe every fifth

20:45.4

20:50.6

pearl is a red pearl and that pearl that
red pearl is a charged sight and so now

20:50.6

20:54.6

these big long strand of pearls come in
and they attract these little pin flocks

20:54.6

20:59.8

to make them bigger and in the case of
settling they’ll settle faster because

20:59.8

21:05.1

they’re bigger if they’re floating you
can while you’re populating it you can

21:05.1

21:10.7

indeed even trap air and have them rise
to the top more quickly so in the in the

21:10.7

21:16.7

primary step in wastewater treatment
this is really where the coagulants and

21:16.7

21:20.8

flocculants are fed to help with those
reaction

21:20.8

21:26.9

those rise or settling I guess I should
also note the other materials can be fed

21:26.9

21:30.2

there would be things like metal
precipitants if you’re trying to take

21:30.2

21:35.4

metals out maybe some kind of a lime if
you’re trying to take phosphate out it

21:35.4

21:39.3

really this is really where the rubber
hits the road where you’re really

21:39.3

21:44.1

removing the big contaminants on what
you’re really trying to take out of the

21:44.1

21:49.1

system is in the primary clarification
and again that’s where that’s where the

21:49.1

21:53.2

majority of the chemicals are being sold
and we’re usually the biggest focus is

21:53.2

21:57.9

that when you’re you know walking and
learning about a treatment plan Kevin I

21:57.9

22:04.7

gotta tell you that was the clearest and
most concise definition of what a plant

22:04.7

22:09.6

is and what it does that I have ever
heard that’s amazing well thank you it’s

22:09.6

22:13.5

it’s it’s come from a lot of I really
enjoy working with young people in the

22:13.5

22:18.2

industry love that always above it and
I’ve always felt that how do I make it

22:18.2

22:23.2

as clear and again Trace no pun intended
here how can I make it as clear as

22:23.2

22:28.8

possible for them and you know I I wish
I could take credit for the Perl

22:28.8

22:34.3

description that was taught to me got 35
years ago and that’s always stuck with

22:34.3

22:38.2

me in a lot of times when I do the class
I’ll actually have a Perl and we’re not

22:38.2

22:41.1

gonna get into molecular weights and
charge and all that right now but but

22:41.1

22:44.2

I’ll have a these little strand of
pearls and I’ll explain it and I can see

22:44.2

22:48.3

people’s eyes kind of start to
understand it I’ve also heard

22:48.3

22:53.8

flocculation be described as flypaper
where it’s sticking things stick to it

22:53.8

22:58.4

you know I’ve seen that too and but to
me that this is really the essence of

22:58.4

23:04.2

what we try to do in the training of the
AWT is really give the folks some kind

23:04.2

23:07.9

of an idea what they’re going to see
when they walk it so I thank you for

23:07.9

23:12.7

that but it’s I appreciate that it’s
been it’s been a lot of a lot of working

23:12.7

23:16.5

to get that’s where I can explain to
people what they’re seeing when they’re

23:16.5

23:21.7

looking at precipitation coagulation and
flocculation well I think many water

23:21.7

23:27.3

treaters get caught up in the big words
and trying to prove to the other party

23:27.3

23:31.8

that’s listing how smart they are and
what ends up happening is the other

23:31.8

23:35.9

party has no idea what they’re talking
about but they’re too embarrassed to say

23:35.9

23:39.5

that so they walk away not knowing
anything more than when the conversation

23:39.5

23:45.8

started and I love it when people that
have a huge amount of information like

23:45.8

23:51.1

yourself can boil that down so now
everybody can get in the party so thank

23:51.1

23:54.9

you for doing that and you better
believe I am stealing that pearl

23:54.9

24:00.9

demonstration like I said well if you
really want to take it to the final end

24:00.9

24:06.9

on that what in the in flocculants the
flocculants can be cationic or non ionic

24:06.9

24:11.6

or anionic for the most part the
non-annex are just very very very low

24:11.6

24:15.4

analytic so you really have negatively
charged and positively charged so when I

24:15.4

24:19.9

do my talk I have one strand of pearls
with red pearls and I have one with

24:19.9

24:24.2

green pearls and just you know and talk
about you know and then you can make the

24:24.2

24:29.7

strand longer or shorter depending on
how long the molecular weight is or add

24:29.7

24:33.9

more colored pearls to increase the
charge density so it’s something that’s

24:33.9

24:38.0

always stuck with me so be happy to give
you a tutorial on how to put your pearls

24:38.0

24:43.5

together for free for the talk but
that’s that’s the best way I found ya so

24:43.5

24:48.4

once primary clarification of them we
move into secondary and secondary

24:48.4

24:52.0

clarification is really where you’re
going to take out some of the dissolve

24:52.0

24:57.5

materials specifically the Bo d co D
things that can be biologically broken

24:57.5

25:01.6

down alright in our industry I don’t
know what the percentage would be but I

25:01.6

25:05.9

don’t think we’re going to see a lot of
the secondary treatment we may a lot of

25:05.9

25:10.3

lot of the food plants almost every food
plant will have secondary treatment and

25:10.3

25:15.8

what happens there is you have bugs and
when I started in this industry and the

25:15.8

25:19.5

first time I heard somebody call bugs I
just looked at them like really that’s

25:19.5

25:24.3

the word you use and that is the word
that is accepted when we talk in this

25:24.3

25:29.5

industry so what happens is you have
these aeration pause where bubbling air

25:29.5

25:35.3

all the time and there’s bugs in there
and these bugs will eat you organics and

25:35.3

25:40.4

break them down okay and these bugs will
break these organics down cleaning the

25:40.4

25:44.1

water and then this water that has all
these bugs in it

25:44.1

25:48.0

will be taken and brought into a
clarifier just like we just talked

25:48.0

25:52.3

about where they’ll settle out the clean
water will continue we’ll get into where

25:52.3

25:56.4

the clean water goes in a minute
but the the sludge the bug sludge that

25:56.4

26:01.5

settles to the bottom that is one of two
things can happen to that they can

26:01.5

26:06.6

either recycle that back to the
beginning of the secondary treatment or

26:06.6

26:11.8

they can waste it to get rid of some of
the bugs now here’s why this this is

26:11.8

26:15.7

another little way somebody explained
this to me that stuck with me my entire

26:15.7

26:21.7

career if you think of the biological
aerobic digester so what it’s called a

26:21.7

26:26.2

narrow big digester there’s air present
as a community and you think of that as

26:26.2

26:32.0

being people okay and you have these
bugs basically people and you have young

26:32.0

26:37.5

bugs you have medium age bugs and you
have old bugs and if you think of our

26:37.5

26:41.8

society really the young people the
young babies and stuff really don’t do a

26:41.8

26:46.4

whole lot of work for the society but
now you get to the middle age you know

26:46.4

26:51.1

young adults too you know
yeah little older adults really who do

26:51.1

26:55.9

the primary work within our society then
you have the elderly which really don’t

26:55.9

27:01.4

do a lot of work so what happens is in
this bug community now if you start

27:01.4

27:06.2

getting too young the bugs are too young
you don’t get a lot of work if the bugs

27:06.2

27:10.7

are getting too old you don’t get a lot
of work work being removed or the

27:10.7

27:15.7

organics so what these customers will do
is they’ll take this sludge and they’ll

27:15.7

27:20.1

analyze it and they’ll say well we’re
getting too old we’re going to waste

27:20.1

27:25.2

some of the sludge to move the but the
the sludge age more down into the medium

27:25.2

27:31.6

range and and conversely if we have too
young the sludge we won’t waste we’ll

27:31.6

27:37.3

let those bugs become older and become
more in that center group and so that’s

27:37.3

27:41.8

always stuck with me on how to explain
biological treatment so what you’re

27:41.8

27:46.2

trying to do is have a healthy community
of bugs which break down the organics

27:46.2

27:51.7

and and clean the water and taking you
organics out and you do that by aeration

27:51.7

27:56.9

where you have the air just like our
society air you have food food being the

27:56.9

28:00.4

waste it’s coming in and then you have
the bugs the communities that are

28:00.4

28:04.4

breaking this material
down and again that’s called secondary

28:04.4

28:10.6

treatment once again Kevin the best
definition I have ever heard of that

28:10.6

28:15.0

being described outstanding I give I
give credit where credit is due on this

28:15.0

28:18.8

one that was not me that was a gentleman
up at the waste treatment plant

28:18.8

28:22.8

he was the Klan operator and I had a
young girl I was true I was training

28:22.8

28:26.4

there with me and and we were talking
and I was walking through he goes do you

28:26.4

28:30.6

mind if I get involved on you’re not at
all and he’s the one that came up and

28:30.6

28:34.3

gave me that description on how it
worked and that’s always stuck with me

28:34.3

28:39.0

and I’ve always felt that that is one of
the best ways to describe what’s

28:39.0

28:43.2

happening in a biologic treatment I mean
it’s so much more complicated than that

28:43.2

28:48.0

but that John and and I and I have no
problem I stole it that I said can I use

28:48.0

28:53.0

it as you that and I’ve used that that
basic description of a biological

28:53.0

28:57.6

treatment plant as long as I can
remember and I mean that’s probably back

28:57.6

29:01.1

I probably did that back in my that
would have been my Calgon days is when

29:01.1

29:04.7

our dear might have been durable I can’t
remember but it I think it just gives it

29:04.7

29:08.9

paints a picture of what a bottle of the
biological treatment plan is all about

29:08.9

29:15.2

and a lot of people are concerned about
that you know it it’s it there’s some

29:15.2

29:19.2

little bit of hocus-pocus that can go on
there I mean you know you you can sell

29:19.2

29:23.6

you know bio augmentation which is great
what that does is it will focus in on

29:23.6

29:29.5

specific materials that need to be taken
out so a lot going on in the biological

29:29.5

29:34.9

treatment plants but thank you and again
that definite description was something

29:34.9

29:40.5

that an operator and block tell you what
get it all aside here we get to know the

29:40.5

29:44.5

plant operators these guys work with it
every day and I’ve learned so much from

29:44.5

29:50.0

those guys they they have taught me so
much information because they deal with

29:50.0

29:55.1

it every day and I think the true water
professional takes from one plant and

29:55.1

29:59.3

makes it work and that makes it work but
use of that information to help the next

29:59.3

30:03.7

plant totally agree with that totally
agree with it I really really enjoy

30:03.7

30:08.0

working with the operators and you know
here and there their troubles and why

30:08.0

30:11.3

they do what they do and you know what
this happens and things along this line

30:11.3

30:14.9

so but thank you but that that’s
basically in a nutshell

30:14.9

30:17.4

and when you
looking at a secondary treatment you

30:17.4

30:22.4

know some of the things you can sell is
if the sludge age gets out of whack if

30:22.4

30:26.0

it’s a really good sludge age you don’t
need a polymer to help it settle it’ll

30:26.0

30:29.9

settle on its own but if it gets out of
whack one way or the other you typically

30:29.9

30:34.7

need some kind of a flocculent usually a
cationic flocculent to help it set a lot

30:34.7

30:39.6

better with the sludge is too old or too
young help it sew up better we did talk

30:39.6

30:43.8

a little bit about bio augmentation what
are some of the bugs you can sell them

30:43.8

30:49.0

or or enzymes you can sell them to help
them increase their removal and have a

30:49.0

30:53.7

healthy community nutrients are another
area that it required phosphates are

30:53.7

30:58.2

required sometimes ammonia but those are
materials that can be fed into these

30:58.2

31:02.5

plans to keep them healthy keep it
healthy bug colony so you’re getting

31:02.5

31:08.0

good removal I should mention that’s
what’s called aerobic digestion in the

31:08.0

31:13.3

presence of air just like we think of in
our communities some of the sludge is

31:13.3

31:17.7

then taken to what are called anaerobic
digesters and what that is is what

31:17.7

31:22.1

you’re trying to do there is reduce the
volume of sludge through an anaerobic

31:22.1

31:26.8

digestion all right I don’t do a lot of
work in those like really can’t speak to

31:26.8

31:31.5

those but a lot of times the sludge will
come from some of the sludge will be

31:31.5

31:35.3

brought in to an anaerobic digester
and what you’re doing there again is

31:35.3

31:39.2

reduced the amount of sludge you’re
creating methane and it’s just a way of

31:39.2

31:43.0

reducing the amount of sludge that
you’re generating in a waste treatment

31:43.0

31:48.5

plant that has a biological treatment
because to halt that off that’s an extra

31:48.5

31:53.1

expense exactly exactly and so what
you’re trying to do and not always been

31:53.1

31:56.8

in most cases you’re trying to reduce
the amount of sludge that you’re

31:56.8

32:02.0

generating and anaerobic digester will
do that will reduce the amount the

32:02.0

32:07.1

volume of biological sludge that you’re
generating very good so that’s so we’ve

32:07.1

32:10.6

gone through we’ve gone through
screening equalization primary

32:10.6

32:14.4

clarification secondary clarification
the next area is what’s called

32:14.4

32:18.8

thickening and what’s thickening is is
simply what you’re doing is you’re

32:18.8

32:24.2

taking the bugs that you’ve generated
either via the use of aerobic or

32:24.2

32:29.0

anaerobic digestion and you’re reducing
that and the first step

32:29.0

32:32.9

is what’s called sludge thickening and
what you’re simply doing there is if you

32:32.9

32:36.3

were to think very much just like a
clarifier we’ve already talked about

32:36.3

32:40.3

you’re bringing that sludge in there and
there’s a lot of water in that sludge

32:40.3

32:45.2

and so what you’re trying to do is
you’re trying to thicken that sludge

32:45.2

32:49.5

you’re trying to get as much of the
gross water out of that as possible and

32:49.5

32:54.4

simply they’re typically at flocculent
is used some time a coagulant and

32:54.4

32:59.8

flocculent but you’re trying to just
simply reduce the amount of water coming

32:59.8

33:04.4

out of the biological treatment plant
and again it’s called sludge thickening

33:04.4

33:09.4

again it’s basically a clarifier I have
seen DAF units be they’re being used

33:09.4

33:14.6

also but some kind of a piece of
equipment to take gross amounts of water

33:14.6

33:20.2

out of the biological sludge prior to
the next step so what’s called the

33:20.2

33:25.3

thickening step and not all plants will
have that again back to one of my very

33:25.3

33:30.2

early comments is not every plant will
have this but just to understand that

33:30.2

33:35.0

people can have it it’s really basically
a thickening step to take gross amounts

33:35.0

33:40.5

of water out all right and so from
thickening the next step and really very

33:40.5

33:45.7

important step now is sludge dewatering
and you know in some cases you know you

33:45.7

33:49.9

can call thickening being part of sludge
dewatering but the the the sludge

33:49.9

33:55.1

dewatering is really where you’re taking
the sludge and you’re taking and making

33:55.1

34:00.6

and taking as much water as possible you
know Trace it’s amazing to this day when

34:00.6

34:05.5

I see sludge coming off an end of a
centrifuge or off a belt press or off

34:05.5

34:11.8

you know a valve plate you frame press
you know there’s probably there can be

34:11.8

34:17.0

60 to 70 percent water in that slut and
I stand and I look at that and I say

34:17.0

34:21.5

really I mean it looks dry I mean it
just so it’s a it always just amazes me

34:21.5

34:25.8

is how much water
even after sludge dewatering how much

34:25.8

34:31.0

water can remain in that sludge but
basically what you’re trying to do and

34:31.0

34:34.5

it’s gonna be a little difficult to
explain this but you’re basically trying

34:34.5

34:40.6

to coagulate or flocculate the flocks
the flocks making them even larger and

34:40.6

34:46.4

which then repels the water
from the sludge and then you take in in

34:46.4

34:52.5

the case of a belt press or a plate and
frame you put that sludge either onto a

34:52.5

34:58.1

onto a like a up a cloth and the water
then percolates through the cloth

34:58.1

35:03.0

leaving the remaining sludge behind and
in the case of a belt press you know

35:03.0

35:06.7

it’s pressed a little more to get more
of the water out in the case of a plate

35:06.7

35:12.0

and frame it’s pressurized by the pump
to push more water out of the sludge and

35:12.0

35:17.5

you’re always costly trying to dry the
sludge reduce the amount of water reduce

35:17.5

35:21.7

haul off cost or in the case of a
centrifuge you’re spinning it in

35:21.7

35:27.3

spinning the solids out of the sludge to
make a dry or what we call a drier cake

35:27.3

35:32.2

so it’s sludge dewatering and sludge
dewatering from a from a lucrative

35:32.2

35:37.1

standpoint can be very lucrative
we always joke a centrifuge and a belt

35:37.1

35:42.1

press will take polymer a plate and
frame typically does not not a hundred

35:42.1

35:46.9

percent of the time but when you add
polymer to a belt press you’re basically

35:46.9

35:51.5

trying to break out free water which
then drains down through the cloth and a

35:51.5

35:55.1

belt press or in the case of a
centrifuge you’re trying to make the

35:55.1

36:01.4

particles larger which then helps with
center fusing the larger particles spin

36:01.4

36:06.7

further and and more effective more
efficiently leaving the water behind in

36:06.7

36:12.1

the case of a plate and frame and what
happens there is the pump is pushing

36:12.1

36:17.7

into these cavities that are enough
claws on them and as it’s pumping in the

36:17.7

36:21.6

pressure from the pump is forcing the
water through the sludge and then

36:21.6

36:26.1

through the claws in and out so those
are there’s other ways of doing it but

36:26.1

36:29.6

those are the three most common
centrifuge where you’re spinning the

36:29.6

36:34.7

sludge and allowing the heavier sludge
to go to the outside of this of the spin

36:34.7

36:39.4

and the centrifuge leaving the water
behind belt press where you have sludge

36:39.4

36:43.5

hitting on a belt that’s continually
moving the water percolates down through

36:43.5

36:47.7

the sludge then a second belt comes and
you you get two belts coming together

36:47.7

36:53.3

and it goes through a series of rollers
that press the water out and then lastly

36:53.3

37:01.5

a plate and frame in essence you have
these caverns these these plates that

37:01.5

37:08.2

are that are hollow but on the inside of
the plates is a filter cloth which the

37:08.2

37:12.6

pump pressure pushes the sludge up
against the claws and then water

37:12.6

37:16.8

percolates through the sludge through
the claws and in the dispose though and

37:16.8

37:22.0

that’s called sludge thickening and
there you know it from up from a

37:22.0

37:27.5

treatment standpoint a lot of times
there are significant amount of a

37:27.5

37:33.0

product as neither for sludge dewatering
so that’s the the next step so we’ve

37:33.0

37:39.0

gone screening equalization primary
clarification secondary clarification

37:39.0

37:44.9

thickening sludge dewatering and then
lastly the last the last and again this

37:44.9

37:50.3

has not always been filtration and and
what happens in filtration is what

37:50.3

37:54.5

you’re trying to do there is you’re
trying to take the last small amount of

37:54.5

37:59.8

particles that may carry over from the
clarifier or carry over from the DAF

37:59.8

38:04.0

unit you want to take those out so
there’ll be some kind of a filtration

38:04.0

38:10.7

step at the end of a waste treatment
plant and it can be sand it can be what

38:10.7

38:14.9

a variety of different mechanisms used
that just basically filter and it’s

38:14.9

38:20.9

really just kind of the last step to did
reduce any kind of carryover that you

38:20.9

38:25.3

might get from the waste treatment plan
and there you know you can do you can do

38:25.3

38:30.5

some things there with with polymers to
help with you know catching any of the

38:30.5

38:34.2

last little bit I’ve seen companies do
what’s called a pre coat where they’ll

38:34.2

38:39.9

feed polymer prior to the filter coat
the coat the particles and then whenever

38:39.9

38:44.6

the particles come through they tend to
stick a little better to the sand or the

38:44.6

38:49.9

media whatever the media may be so I
know I know that now Co had done that

38:49.9

38:54.0

quite a bit back in the back when I was
in the field quite often they would do

38:54.0

38:58.3

what’s called a pre coat of a of a sand
filter so but then and that’s the last

38:58.3

39:03.9

step so that’s basically walking someone
through a waste treatment plant you know

39:03.9

39:06.9

these are these are the steps you’re not
going to see them all but you

39:06.9

39:09.9

potentially these are things you could
see and

39:09.9

39:13.5

you know my recommendation is when
you’re going through ask ask what are

39:13.5

39:17.2

you trying to do here you know what do
you try to remove what are you what is

39:17.2

39:21.6

this piece of equipment used for the
operator’s love to tell people about

39:21.6

39:25.5

their plants so that I’ve always found
it fascinating

39:25.5

39:30.9

you know how they explain things and and
you know willing to work with you to

39:30.9

39:35.2

really explain what you’re trying to do
in a facility Kevin this has been

39:35.2

39:40.6

fantastic again those were some great
explanations so I want to thank you for

39:40.6

39:47.1

that you know I want to bring you back
and let’s next week talk about what the

39:47.1

39:52.3

water treatment professional needs to do
now that they know what’s inside the

39:52.3

39:57.8

plant I would be honored to do it again
excellent nation I told you that Kevin

39:57.8

40:04.7

cope is just fantastic when it comes to
painting pictures just like you are

40:04.7

40:09.5

there I know you were all walking
through the waste water plant as he is

40:09.5

40:14.4

describing it and folks there’s just so
much great information we are going to

40:14.4

40:21.3

continue with Kevin next week so I look
forward to talking with all of you next

40:21.3

40:32.3

week as Kevin Koch joins us to conclude
this episode have a great week folks

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