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0:08.1
0:14.0
today’s episode is proudly sponsored by
radical polymers nation running a water
0:14.0
0:19.4
treatment business is hard dealing with
your suppliers shouldn’t be and when I
0:19.4
0:26.2
deal with the fine folks over at radical
polymers I have always felt like I have
0:26.2
0:32.3
had a partner they test things in the
environment that we are going to use
0:32.3
0:38.4
their products they also make sure that
if I have any questions that I get the
0:38.4
0:44.0
answer that I am looking for Mike and
the fine folks over at radical polymers
0:44.0
0:49.0
answer the phone spokes when was the
last time you actually talked with
0:49.0
0:54.2
somebody when you had a technical
support question well they make your
0:54.2
0:59.2
issues their issues and they get right
down to the problem they offer
0:59.2
1:02.7
best-in-class
technologies with the first-class
1:02.7
1:08.1
support that I just mentioned
go to https://scalinguph2o.com/radical
1:08.1
1:13.9
to find out more
1:18.2
1:22.7
welcome to Scaling UP! the podcast where
we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so we
1:22.7
1:29.6
don’t Scale UP! our systems nation my
name is Trace Blackmore and I am coming
1:29.6
1:37.8
to you from a WTS Technical Training
event in Seattle Washington and folks
1:37.8
1:43.1
this is my absolute favorite thing to do
to get together with other water
1:43.1
1:49.7
treaters that have come to one place to
learn more about what they do to share
1:49.7
1:57.7
ideas to get better to raise the bar in
the industry I’ve had so many members of
1:57.7
2:03.8
the Scaling UP! nation come up to me and
they let me know how much the podcast
2:03.8
2:09.8
means to them they say the podcast has
made a difference in their day to day
2:09.8
2:15.7
most of them have said they don’t feel
alone anymore and I know exactly what
2:15.7
2:20.3
they’re talking about
I remember when all I did was service
2:20.3
2:25.7
and it was just me and my car and I just
watched the windshield from account to
2:25.7
2:30.9
account now it was great when we were
talking to customers but we just have so
2:30.9
2:37.8
much windshield time and a lot of us
don’t know the best way to spend it and
2:37.8
2:42.9
that’s where the idea for the podcast
came I thought it was a good idea
2:42.9
2:48.9
you all and the Scaling UP! nation
confirmed it and now we’re over 10,000
2:48.9
2:56.3
people listening to the Scaling UP! h2o
podcast I am just so incredibly humbled
2:56.3
3:02.1
by that number but I’m also so excited
by that number we have so many people
3:02.1
3:09.0
listening to this podcast it means that
we are all caring about this industry
3:09.0
3:14.3
and we all want to make it better you
know some other things that people are
3:14.3
3:18.8
coming up to me this week and tell me
about is how they’ve learned something
3:18.8
3:25.4
new or a new way to do something on this
podcast or they were doing the same
3:25.4
3:29.6
thing
over and over and over again and then
3:29.6
3:35.6
something that either I said or one of
my guests said sparked an idea and now
3:35.6
3:40.9
they’re thinking differently about
issues and that’s the real thing with
3:40.9
3:47.5
issues we can’t think the same way that
we did when we created the issues and
3:47.5
3:52.7
expect to significantly solve them so
when we figure out ways to think
3:52.7
3:58.7
differently about what we’re doing we
are going to make monumentous changing
3:58.7
4:06.1
so many people have also asked me about
the rising tide mastermind and folks I
4:06.1
4:12.0
gotta tell you this has become one of my
favorite times each and every week where
4:12.0
4:17.6
I get to get on a call with other
members of the rising tide mastermind
4:17.6
4:24.2
and we just talked to figure out how we
make each other better we figure out
4:24.2
4:30.9
who’s having an issue we discuss that
issue we find out how we train ourselves
4:30.9
4:35.6
to ask better questions and when was the
last time you even thought about that
4:35.6
4:42.8
how do you ask questions and how can you
ask better questions so you can help
4:42.8
4:48.9
people make better decisions so you can
get better information so you can get
4:48.9
4:53.3
decisions well that’s what we’re doing
that’s one of the many things that we’re
4:53.3
4:59.8
doing in the rising tide mastermind the
rising tide mastermind it took off
4:59.8
5:07.3
phenomenally well we filled up two
groups as soon as I started talking
5:07.3
5:12.8
about it here on Scaling UP! h2o so I
have a waiting list that has been
5:12.8
5:18.1
started for the third group now when we
get that group filled up we will go
5:18.1
5:23.0
ahead and release that and we’ll start
meeting with our third group so if you
5:23.0
5:29.4
want to learn more about the rising tide
mastermind you can go to https://scalinguph2o.com/mastermind
5:29.4
5:35.0
you can
even fill out an application right there
5:35.0
5:39.7
on that website
nation I told you I am coming to you
5:39.7
5:45.5
from Seattle Washington and if you are
not here you are missing one of the best
5:45.5
5:52.6
water treatment trainings around now if
you did not get to come here you have
5:52.6
5:59.0
one more shot so next month March 18th
through 21st we are going to do this
5:59.0
6:04.9
exact training in Cleveland Ohio so if
you want to sign up for that go to AWT
6:04.9
6:11.5
org and all the information about the
event will be there and if you need one
6:11.5
6:17.7
more reason to go folks I’m gonna be
there so come by let me know what you
6:17.7
6:22.7
think of the podcast give me some ideas
give me a high five I love that and and
6:22.7
6:27.1
just let me know that you’re listening
to the show I want to introduce today’s
6:27.1
6:32.8
guest and I’m trying to figure out what
the best way to introduce Tom Hutchison
6:32.8
6:40.0
is to you have you ever spoke with
somebody in a crowded room and the
6:40.0
6:44.3
person that you’re speaking to just
makes you feel like you are the only
6:44.3
6:50.4
person in that room
well that I think best describes today’s
6:50.4
6:55.8
guest and of course I already said his
name his name is Tom Hutchison of H Oh H
6:55.8
7:02.5
and in case you’re wondering tom is the
father of Reed Reed Hutchinson was on
7:02.5
7:11.0
earlier this year he was episode 121 and
122 we were actually talking a lot about
7:11.0
7:16.1
the training that we are at right now
this very moment of course one year ago
7:16.1
7:23.1
and Reed gave all sorts of great advice
to why he attended both sessions how he
7:23.1
7:29.9
took notes what he did before and after
so if you are heck if you’re here and
7:29.9
7:35.7
you’re thinking how you can even improve
it go listen to episode 121 and 122 and
7:35.7
7:40.8
those are great ways to get the most out
of not just the AWT technical training
7:40.8
7:46.3
but really any training that you go to
there’s just no doubt about it
7:46.3
7:51.3
father and son Reed and Tom are just
great people but today we are
7:51.3
7:57.3
talking to Tom and the reason we’re
talking to Tom Hutchison is he gave an
7:57.3
8:01.6
outstanding presentation at last year’s
Association of Water Technologies
8:01.6
8:07.4
conference on multi-generational
businesses and folks I work with a lot
8:07.4
8:12.9
of water treatment companies and I also
get coached by somebody you’ve met him
8:12.9
8:19.0
his name is Tim Fulton and he has a lot
of insight on business and he’s the
8:19.0
8:24.8
first to tell me that water treatment
has more multi-generational businesses
8:24.8
8:30.3
percentage-wise than other company
industries that he has seen so I think
8:30.3
8:34.5
that means something I think it’s really
cool when families can work together
8:34.5
8:38.8
well it’s cool when it works and I know
we’ve talked a lot about that with some
8:38.8
8:44.7
other multi-generational business owners
but when it does it’s just fantastic and
8:44.7
8:47.4
that’s what he’s talking about today
he’s talking about what are the items
8:47.4
8:52.3
that make it work what are some things
we really need to watch out and what are
8:52.3
8:57.4
some things that we need to do to
prepare for what happens next
8:57.4
9:04.7
folks I know you are going to enjoy this
interview with Tom Hutchison of HOH my
9:04.7
9:11.4
lab partner today is Tom Hutchison of
HOH water technology Tom how are you
9:11.4
9:16.1
today sir I’m good how are you doing I’m
doing very well I want to thank you for
9:16.1
9:20.7
coming on Scaling UP! h2o we just saw
each other a couple of weeks ago at the
9:20.7
9:26.6
association of Water Technologies annual
convention and Expo and you did such a
9:26.6
9:32.5
fantastic job presenting a paper on
multi-generational businesses and I just
9:32.5
9:37.7
thought what a great topic to bring on
Scaling UP! h2o I presented that idea to
9:37.7
9:42.2
you and you were so gracious you said
absolutely you would be happy to come on
9:42.2
9:45.6
so thank you for that well thanks for
the opportunity looking forward to it
9:45.6
9:50.3
and as our audience may or may not be
aware you know you and I were recording
9:50.3
9:54.5
this but it may not air until a couple
of months it absolutely will air in a
9:54.5
9:58.6
couple of months but we just saw each
other at the association of Water
9:58.6
10:02.2
Technologies so there’s a whole bunch
that we’re going to talk about in this
10:02.2
10:08.0
episode that came from that but
or we get started I wanted to ask you if
10:08.0
10:11.0
you wouldn’t mind introducing yourself
to the audience so they can know you
10:11.0
10:16.1
just a little bit better okay well let’s
see my name is Tom leches and as you
10:16.1
10:23.0
said president CEO of HOH water
technology we are 51 year old third
10:23.0
10:29.4
generation business my dad started the
company in 1968 in Chicago we’ve been a
10:29.4
10:33.9
manufacturer with a laboratory facility
really that whole time I worked for the
10:33.9
10:37.5
Train corporation for a while out of
college and then I decided I started in
10:37.5
10:44.5
the family business in 1979 so 40 years
in the business and have been president
10:44.5
10:50.6
of the company since 1989 as I said
third generation business so part of the
10:50.6
10:54.7
reason for me to be interested in the
topic and to write the paper was I have
10:54.7
10:58.8
a son the business Reid who’s now chief
operating officer and a son-in-law Andy
10:58.8
11:04.3
who is our channel partner manager and
they’re doing great and so this is an
11:04.3
11:09.9
exciting time for us now 40 years in the
business you had to have seen things
11:09.9
11:14.6
change in water treatment I’m curious
what are some of those things well I am
11:14.6
11:19.6
so old that you know when I started the
by far the most common method for
11:19.6
11:24.5
preventing scale and corrosion was to
use an acid and zinc chromate solution
11:24.5
11:29.2
so it worked really well all right I
mean chromate remains probably the best
11:29.2
11:31.7
corrosion inhibitor like you know ever
invented
11:31.7
11:36.2
but it has some environmental issues but
I mean it was super popular back in the
11:36.2
11:41.0
70s and the early 80s up until it was
you know banned by the EPA that’s a huge
11:41.0
11:45.8
change just the the the technology the
you know development of organic
11:45.8
11:50.0
materials and also a lot of different
bio sites because also back in the day
11:50.0
11:54.5
pretty much people use chlorine maybe
bromine you know now there’s there’s a
11:54.5
11:59.0
lot of effective biocides for unique
application so that technology’s changed
11:59.0
12:04.0
and I think my observation from what it
was like when I was in the field you
12:04.0
12:07.7
know in the 80s and 90s to what it’s
like now that has changed a lot too I
12:07.7
12:11.4
think customers have changed think the
market has changed it is a different
12:11.4
12:16.5
world for water treated a like I’m old
right so I think I know all the right
12:16.5
12:19.2
answers but I know what the right
answers were 90
12:19.2
12:24.0
not so sure I know what they are in 2019
well something that I remember I
12:24.0
12:29.0
actually remember the tail end of zinc
chromate when I was growing up so I
12:29.0
12:33.5
wasn’t actually in water treatment then
but I used to service with my father I
12:33.5
12:37.4
think I’ve shared on the show before
that my first water treatment memory was
12:37.4
12:42.0
being 5 years old and I reached up and I
burned myself on my father’s hot plate
12:42.0
12:44.7
when he was doing a digestion
you know how long has it been since
12:44.7
12:49.9
we’ve used hot plates right but I
remember that he would go to a cooling
12:49.9
12:54.4
tower or a boiler and he would say
that’s not yellow enough we need to turn
12:54.4
12:57.5
the product up and that’s that was
pretty much how you did those zinc
12:57.5
13:02.6
chromate programs wasn’t it well yeah
that’s true I mean we sold an acid
13:02.6
13:07.2
inhibitor blend so you had to check out
colinear pH but yeah we had a boiler
13:07.2
13:11.7
water product for a low pressure low
make up applications where you weren’t
13:11.7
13:15.9
going to use a lot of chemical but one
of the big advantages to chromate was
13:15.9
13:18.8
you could just tell by looking at the
site glass what the treatment level was
13:18.8
13:23.6
it was really convenient and simple but
you know those were the good old days
13:23.6
13:29.0
that’s what old people reminisce about
III again I remember when I was very
13:29.0
13:35.2
young with that I never had experience
with those programs but by far those are
13:35.2
13:40.1
the best corrosion inhibitors I think we
will ever see you just can’t use them
13:40.1
13:46.0
anymore yep well I’m curious could you
ever see yourself doing something else
13:46.0
13:51.9
being in water treatment for 40 years
well the in my case you mean like what
13:51.9
13:55.1
are my plans for the next ten years or
what would I have done if I was in a
13:55.1
13:59.6
water treat
I like both questions okay so it might
13:59.6
14:03.2
be a complicated answer but if I was in
a water treat or I’d probably be in the
14:03.2
14:08.2
ministry we talked about me going to
seminary late in life I went to seminary
14:08.2
14:13.4
when I was 50 and then I actually was on
staff at a church part-time so I’ve
14:13.4
14:17.6
obviously got a passion for that and you
know in a different a different time
14:17.6
14:22.7
that’s what I might have done I think
that what I would do differently going
14:22.7
14:28.0
forward is probably more to do with you
know trying to influence and encourage I
14:28.0
14:31.9
think leaders right so wouldn’t F be
necessarily in the water treatment
14:31.9
14:35.0
industry Oh
I’m grateful for like this opportunity
14:35.0
14:39.5
but you know I think I’ve developed some
skills and has some wisdom around the
14:39.5
14:44.9
whole subject of leadership and strategy
and I really do enjoy that so the next
14:44.9
14:49.9
days of life hopefully includes some of
that I can’t remember who said it and
14:49.9
14:53.7
I’m gonna mess the quote up so I’ll
paraphrase it but somebody said the mark
14:53.7
14:58.3
of a true leader was how many other
leaders they create have you heard that
14:58.3
15:03.2
no but that’s definitely a big part of
it I think if and even in terms of
15:03.2
15:06.3
building a business you know we’ll
probably get into this more in a minute
15:06.3
15:11.6
but if it all depends on you and if
you’re not around and you don’t have a
15:11.6
15:16.1
team that can you know pick up the
pieces then at least you know for a
15:16.1
15:20.8
really important part of your job you’ve
really not done it well so yeah I agree
15:20.8
15:25.3
with the quote for sure the the simple
quote I’ve heard that I always resonate
15:25.3
15:30.1
it with me is you know you’re a leader
if people are following you so you know
15:30.1
15:32.5
yeah you might think you’re a leader but
if you turn around nobody’s walking
15:32.5
15:37.3
behind you you might want to check that
again Thomas I mentioned at the top of
15:37.3
15:40.7
the show we just came back from the
association of water technologies
15:40.7
15:47.2
convention and you gave a presentation
about multi-generational businesses and
15:47.2
15:55.3
there’s so many topics around that we
had a young professionals panel where
15:55.3
15:59.6
Reid was part of your son where people
are trying to understand the millennial
15:59.6
16:03.2
generation and then we have so many
people in the association of Water
16:03.2
16:08.5
Technologies that is trying to figure
out what they’re going to do when the
16:08.5
16:12.1
next level of their business how they’re
gonna pass that to someone or what
16:12.1
16:17.7
they’re going to do with it I just
recently had an expert on this show his
16:17.7
16:24.4
name was Jeff Butler and he was episode
104 and he spoke all about generational
16:24.4
16:29.6
diversity and how now we have four
generations working together and they
16:29.6
16:36.0
all do things differently so I am
curious with all that information what
16:36.0
16:40.4
was the reason that you decided you
wanted to take your valuable time and
16:40.4
16:45.2
interview I think you interviewed what
40 different water treaters to figure
16:45.2
16:48.5
out what was going
going on multi-generationally in their
16:48.5
16:52.2
businesses and how those businesses were
going to pass to the next generation
16:52.2
16:57.9
well I think the impetus to do anything
was a desire to to give back the WT I
16:57.9
17:01.9
mean the organization is really
benefiting us right now and we’ve got a
17:01.9
17:06.2
member a long time and so I was glad to
do something in response and you know
17:06.2
17:11.0
the subject of a lasting impact in
multi-generational companies it’s really
17:11.0
17:15.5
important to me and to my family so as I
said at the beginning we’re a third
17:15.5
17:20.9
generation in business and you know the
transition is not unique to me but the
17:20.9
17:24.6
transition from my dad to me was
successful I guess but also very very
17:24.6
17:30.2
bumpy and we’re a lot larger now than we
were then and so the it’s complicated I
17:30.2
17:33.4
think that much more to try to
transition it to my son and my
17:33.4
17:37.7
son-in-law so we’ve done a lot of work
on it and we turned 50 years old last
17:37.7
17:44.0
year and celebrated our past and and and
took that opportunity to strategically
17:44.0
17:48.6
plan for the future so it’s a really
important subject to all of us here at
17:48.6
17:52.5
HOH and I thought well you know we’re
not the only company in that position so
17:52.5
17:56.6
yeah we reached out to 40 companies just
to kind of see what their experience has
17:56.6
18:00.8
been ended up talking to and
interviewing 22 which I thought was a
18:00.8
18:05.0
really the response was great that’s a
pretty high percentage you know to get
18:05.0
18:08.6
some of these some of these people don’t
know me from Adam and yet they were
18:08.6
18:12.1
willing to talk and be pretty
transparent so really enjoyed the
18:12.1
18:17.6
process did you find by interviewing
these 22 people that most of them had a
18:17.6
18:21.1
transition plan already in place
you know I’d have to look at my nose I
18:21.1
18:26.3
would say the majority did I was I was
surprised and some of the companies I
18:26.3
18:31.1
knew and was surprised even from what I
know of them that they did yeah I would
18:31.1
18:37.7
say more companies had plans in place
then did not but definitely a minority
18:37.7
18:42.3
of companies really had a plan that was
I would say thorough or really had
18:42.3
18:46.6
already kind of been fully executed so
it’s you know I think it’s always a work
18:46.6
18:50.8
in progress but there were more
companies than not they were actively
18:50.8
18:54.4
working it what were some of the things
that you learned during the interview
18:54.4
18:59.6
process you know I think the biggest
thing I learned is that
18:59.6
19:04.5
and this is a WT members know this in
general but you know you’re not unique
19:04.5
19:09.1
and when you get to to talk to people
when you’re in kind of relationship you
19:09.1
19:14.2
realize that whatever challenges and
kind of tensions and struggles and
19:14.2
19:18.7
opportunities that you have virtually
every other company has you know I mean
19:18.7
19:23.4
you can talk about size and all that but
it often comes down to people and so I
19:23.4
19:28.7
was really just appreciative to hear
other people’s stories because you know
19:28.7
19:32.9
I think we learn well from other
people’s stories and so I I said this in
19:32.9
19:36.4
my talk I hung up the phone I think
virtually with every every interview I
19:36.4
19:39.7
did and I’m like wow that was really
encouraging that was good for me because
19:39.7
19:45.3
you realize you’re not alone I guess
what I learned was everybody is in the
19:45.3
19:50.6
same boat regarding the subject do you
remember any specific conversations that
19:50.6
19:56.8
really remind you of that yeah there
were a few there were some you know sons
19:56.8
20:02.3
of business owners guys who I knew
didn’t understand all of the the hard
20:02.3
20:07.0
work that went into the planning with
their parents and they were you know
20:07.0
20:12.1
very honest to say how hard it was also
how glad they were to be through it and
20:12.1
20:16.6
those conversations were good for me to
hear because you know we’re just kind of
20:16.6
20:19.8
in the process you know with my son and
my son-in-law so I was really glad to
20:19.8
20:23.3
get that encouragement you know the
other thing that I was encouraged by was
20:23.3
20:27.9
a lot of times you know you you hear
statistics that like you know a
20:27.9
20:31.6
second-generation business those guys
don’t care as much as the first because
20:31.6
20:34.7
you know it’s not their baby you know
they didn’t start it and then it gets
20:34.7
20:38.1
worse right third generation people are
more entitled fourth generation even
20:38.1
20:42.4
more entitled but man the the the second
and third generation people that I
20:42.4
20:46.9
talked to were anything but entitled
they were committed they they had a
20:46.9
20:51.6
sense of vision and you know that was
really encouraging because it you know I
20:51.6
20:56.2
was struck by you know how they took the
legacy that their parents had created
20:56.2
20:59.7
they took that really seriously and it
was really benefiting their companies
20:59.7
21:04.3
going forward I had one guy who said so
there are uncle’s in the business and
21:04.3
21:09.0
the uncles were not the greatest owners
looking to you know to cash out as much
21:09.0
21:12.9
as they could of the business and yet
their dad was was a hard worker
21:12.9
21:16.5
and I said the guy said you know so
you’re like a fourth-generation owner
21:16.5
21:21.0
and and so how is it that you know that
you take your job so serious and you do
21:21.0
21:24.1
it so well and he said well you know it
was my dad’s example and he got
21:24.1
21:27.7
emotional as he said it he said he you
know he and he remembered his dad coming
21:27.7
21:31.4
home every night and he would sit in
front of the TV you know in his in his
21:31.4
21:35.2
chair and he would open up his briefcase
and he described this like us sitting in
21:35.2
21:39.8
a chair and opening up our laptop but
he’d wash his dad night after night open
21:39.8
21:45.3
up his chair and open up this briefcase
sitting in his chair and do his work
21:45.3
21:49.6
and the impact it had on him and his
brother I mean his lasting impact right
21:49.6
21:54.1
it’s it’s helped them be really
successful today that was one particular
21:54.1
21:59.8
story that was really encouraging yeah I
have certain memories like that of my
21:59.8
22:03.7
father he was always finishing up
paperwork I remember him doing lab
22:03.7
22:06.8
testing on the kitchen table that’s
where I actually started my career in
22:06.8
22:11.1
water treatment I made something turned
from one color to the other I had no
22:11.1
22:15.7
idea what I was doing at the time I mean
I worked in production for from my dad
22:15.7
22:20.7
and and one of my favorite jobs was
driving a truck I love that could go out
22:20.7
22:23.4
in the road and you know you’re driving
a truck you think you’re a big deal and
22:23.4
22:28.1
then at some point I said hey I want to
carry a test kit and I was like I don’t
22:28.1
22:31.3
know nineteen maybe or something I
didn’t have any experience
22:31.3
22:36.1
Eimer being an accountant in Wisconsin
and I was doing like a you know point of
22:36.1
22:40.8
views delivery and while I was there I
took I took a sample of the Tarwater
22:40.8
22:45.4
just for fun and you know I ran the
tests you know that I supposed to run
22:45.4
22:49.5
and the readings I got just didn’t make
any sense to me because they weren’t
22:49.5
22:55.0
what they were supposed to be and I
didn’t know what to do so I called my
22:55.0
22:57.8
dad I said hey dad I don’t know what’s
going on but these are the readings I’m
22:57.8
23:01.7
getting and it turned out I don’t know
they were probably overfeeding acid sir
23:01.7
23:06.3
so there was like a 0m alkalinity you
know or something like that and it was
23:06.3
23:09.4
fun because it was really helpful so so
my dad called the service guy the
23:09.4
23:13.4
service guy got over there in a couple
hours fixed the problem but that was my
23:13.4
23:17.5
first like testing experience and and I
remember that feeling pretty cool and it
23:17.5
23:21.4
sounds like you saved an account because
of their overfeed acid that wasn’t too
23:21.4
23:26.7
long until disaster struck never know I
might have you mentions to
23:26.7
23:31.0
sticks about companies and I’m pretty
sure you did this research do you know
23:31.0
23:35.1
what the statistics are for companies
that have handed over to another
23:35.1
23:40.3
generation on how well they actually
survive yeah I mean it’s just it’s not
23:40.3
23:45.6
the data is not encouraging it’s
something like 50% of second-generation
23:45.6
23:51.0
businesses you know are successful I
think I want to say 15% of
23:51.0
23:55.6
third-generation businesses are
successful and then 5% our fourth
23:55.6
24:00.5
generation that make it so the eyes are
stacked against you and it points to the
24:00.5
24:05.2
need to be intentional you know about
transition do you think in your opinion
24:05.2
24:10.0
that that is what the issue is people
aren’t intentional and then by default
24:10.0
24:14.1
the transition happens and that’s why
they’re not successful I think that’s
24:14.1
24:18.0
exactly the reason I don’t have the data
my son-in-law who’s part of this family
24:18.0
24:21.9
business council through oil
universities said in one of his classes
24:21.9
24:27.2
the reasons business don’t make it to
the next generation is not because their
24:27.2
24:32.1
products stop working or because their
service stop being effective it’s it’s
24:32.1
24:36.1
virtually always because of a
relationship you know breakdown in the
24:36.1
24:38.9
organization
I’m curious was there something you
24:38.9
24:44.1
heard over and over again during your
interviews if I was gonna summarize it
24:44.1
24:47.9
good number of people that have been
successful would say it like this this
24:47.9
24:51.4
was really really really hard and I’m
really really glad I did it
24:51.4
24:56.2
oh there you go so you know there were
some companies who aren’t being
24:56.2
25:00.0
intentional yet and again my dad was
that intentional so this was not to cast
25:00.0
25:03.4
any stones we’re all on the same boat
but there were a few people who said
25:03.4
25:07.3
yeah I don’t think this is gonna be that
hard and was it my place to offer
25:07.3
25:11.5
commentary or advice but you know I’m
thinking well yeah it’s actually gonna
25:11.5
25:15.9
be really hard because I could turn that
over and over again I also know what it
25:15.9
25:19.8
was like you know when my dad
transitioned to me which was really
25:19.8
25:23.5
pretty bad but yeah I think the general
sense is this is really really hard and
25:23.5
25:27.8
it’s it’s really really worth it and for
me I mean there is nothing more
25:27.8
25:33.1
important with regards to HOH then for
me to make sure that I properly
25:33.1
25:37.0
transition this to the next generation
because nothing else matters
25:37.0
25:42.1
was there anything that you heard that
really surprised you the one comment I
25:42.1
25:45.5
got that was surprising but surprising
in a very good way when I called the
25:45.5
25:48.7
individual we set up the interview you
know and I’d send him an email with the
25:48.7
25:52.8
questions and he gave so much thought to
the questions and it was really around
25:52.8
25:57.5
the family dynamic so that was really
important to him and he had three main
25:57.5
26:01.7
points which I can’t remember to tell
you now but what I was surprised by by
26:01.7
26:07.0
the depth of insight he had so yeah I
think maybe if I was if I was going to
26:07.0
26:11.4
say surprise trace it’d be like I was
surprised at how deeply so many people
26:11.4
26:13.9
have actually thought about this subject
it again
26:13.9
26:17.9
that was very exciting and encouraging
to me well I will say I was in the
26:17.9
26:22.8
audience when you were delivering this
presentation and I sat around several
26:22.8
26:27.4
people that were part of the interview
process and occasionally you would put a
26:27.4
26:31.3
quote up and they would say I told him
that that was my quote everybody was so
26:31.3
26:35.3
proud of your being in your presentation
well I tried to keep it anonymous but if
26:35.3
26:40.8
they were gonna self-identify that’s you
know I can’t you can’t help that my next
26:40.8
26:46.5
question is after all this interviewing
I’m sure you’ve found some things that
26:46.5
26:50.3
you thought were interesting some things
you didn’t think we’re interesting but
26:50.3
26:55.3
after all that came out in the wash did
you learn anything that you would have
26:55.3
26:59.3
done differently had you have known
about it well I think this is going to
26:59.3
27:05.3
be sound really tactical and and I still
have time to address it I think the the
27:05.3
27:11.4
best transition stories involved you
know the older generation really selling
27:11.4
27:15.1
having fight you know I mean getting
their money out of the business you know
27:15.1
27:19.2
and having the younger generation
literally buy it so you know there’s
27:19.2
27:24.5
obviously the option where you give
stock or whatever and that’s a decision
27:24.5
27:28.8
that you know each individual is free to
make but I feel like the the best
27:28.8
27:33.8
transition story is almost always
involved a financial you know stake in
27:33.8
27:38.1
the game on the part of the the
successor generation and I don’t know if
27:38.1
27:41.7
that was surprising to me that was more
convicting to me that I need to I need
27:41.7
27:45.3
to address that that’s hard to do and
then those are hard conversations they
27:45.3
27:50.7
have and you know one quote I had from
from one company was simply this because
27:50.7
27:54.5
had a tough experience with uh you know
a stepmother his money does weird things
27:54.5
27:59.7
to people and yeah it does weird things
in the best of families right and so
27:59.7
28:03.2
it’s a hard conversation to have but if
you don’t have it it’s just like leaving
28:03.2
28:06.8
the elephant in the room and you’re
asking for resentments so I think that
28:06.8
28:11.7
the best stories were those where the
financial plan was really really clear
28:11.7
28:17.0
and successful and and I need to I need
to myself make sure I take that
28:17.0
28:22.8
seriously well let’s get into the nuts
and bolts of your presentation because
28:22.8
28:28.3
you actually gave us a process in what
we should be doing you said we need to
28:28.3
28:34.8
start with why we need to self assess
and we need to get and use resources so
28:34.8
28:38.9
I thought we could start with that when
you say start with why what do you mean
28:38.9
28:44.0
well I took that from the title of a
book by an author named simon Sinek
28:44.0
28:49.3
designed for leaders and I think that
sometimes especially for those of us
28:49.3
28:54.1
who’ve been doing this a long time you
get stuck in the day-to-day grind of of
28:54.1
28:56.7
what you’re doing and how you’re doing
it
28:56.7
29:01.5
you know the job of treating water the
job of taking care of customers and you
29:01.5
29:06.1
can get in that grind and forget or take
the passion that you had when you
29:06.1
29:08.6
started a business you tend to take that
for granted
29:08.6
29:12.7
so cynics point from a leadership point
of view if you’re just going through the
29:12.7
29:15.9
motions not even realizing you’re going
through the motions your company’s going
29:15.9
29:19.2
to follow you and they’ll just go
through the motions as well and
29:19.2
29:23.4
eventually just going through the
motions is gonna provide mediocre
29:23.4
29:27.4
service and that’s what none of us want
to do and so his encouragement is to
29:27.4
29:33.7
start with why just to refocus a company
culture as to what made it not just
29:33.7
29:38.7
successful but you know what made it
exciting to work for you know and then
29:38.7
29:42.2
when you figure out okay how’s the next
generation going to survive it’s worth
29:42.2
29:47.6
doing the work to say okay what was what
was this like driving principle and this
29:47.6
29:52.1
core value whatever you want to call it
that you know my dad for example had
29:52.1
29:57.0
that worked for him that not only worked
for him but then worked for people who
29:57.0
30:00.8
saw something in him and wanted to
follow that and then what do I do with
30:00.8
30:04.7
that and how does that translate into
into the
30:04.7
30:09.4
next generation so that’s work that is
like it’s gonna feel like you know I got
30:09.4
30:14.0
to go this account I’ve got to make sure
Billings correct you know blah blah blah
30:14.0
30:18.7
and so too to be intentional about you
know getting away from the office
30:18.7
30:21.9
whatever it looks like and saying okay
we’re gonna sit around and brainstorm
30:21.9
30:26.5
you know why we exist it sounds pretty
existential we found that really helpful
30:26.5
30:32.1
you know it’s not that easy that it
takes hard work to get it to a succinct
30:32.1
30:36.3
point where you can clarify it you know
in a vision statement or passion
30:36.3
30:40.8
statement or whatever but I have found
as we’ve done this work over the last
30:40.8
30:44.7
couple years it’s been some of the most
important work we’ve done I recently
30:44.7
30:49.7
interviewed cliff Robinson of
chick-fil-a he’s the CEO oh and he said
30:49.7
30:54.9
when they sat down and started
clarifying you know they’re why what
30:54.9
30:59.6
their mission was everything started to
come together for him and I think that’s
30:59.6
31:04.7
true for us we’ve gone through a lot of
organizational upheaval over the last
31:04.7
31:10.6
few years and really at a high level at
the management team level and as we’ve
31:10.6
31:15.4
made those changes it sort of forced us
to say okay you know what are we doing
31:15.4
31:19.8
and why are we doing it you know and
yeah I mean sometimes sometimes when you
31:19.8
31:24.4
find yourself in a really difficult
situation it’s helpful to remember that
31:24.4
31:27.9
just an opportunity for you to get
better um that’s definitely been our
31:27.9
31:32.0
case because we had to stop and say okay
how did we get to this point
31:32.0
31:37.1
and and you know how do we get back to
why we exist you know what’s what’s our
31:37.1
31:42.3
reason why so yeah I mean I totally get
it does change everything you don’t see
31:42.3
31:48.0
it Nestle’s the next day you know you
don’t see it in I mean nothing gets
31:48.0
31:52.4
better overnight but it becomes a
guiding principle that you stick by as
31:52.4
31:56.2
you say okay this is how we’re going to
build or this is how we’re going to
31:56.2
32:02.1
redirect the culture so I agree with
what with what he said yeah Simon cynics
32:02.1
32:07.3
books start with why is one of my
favorite books he does a great job of
32:07.3
32:13.0
explaining to you how you can explain to
people that buy your wares how you
32:13.0
32:18.0
they’re why and he uses Apple Computer
Martin Luther King jr. I think the
32:18.0
32:22.0
Wright brothers are in there it’s a
fantastic book in fact I’m gonna try to
32:22.0
32:28.4
put the TED talk that he did on my show
notes page so people can see exactly
32:28.4
32:33.4
what we’re talking about I’m curious
have you read his book leaders eat last
32:33.4
32:38.4
some of it yeah I didn’t finish it but I
did yeah he’s just fantastic he came to
32:38.4
32:42.3
Atlanta not too terribly long ago and
unfortunately I wasn’t able to get
32:42.3
32:48.0
tickets to go see him but he is a
fantastic author he’s done several TED
32:48.0
32:52.7
talks so nation if you’re out there and
you’re in some sort of leadership role
32:52.7
32:58.2
he really does a great job of summing up
what the mindset of a true leader in my
32:58.2
33:03.2
opinion needs to think like you know if
I just tell one anecdote from there and
33:03.2
33:06.1
maybe this benefits smaller water
treaters out there so you mentioned the
33:06.1
33:10.5
the Wright brothers at the same time the
Wright brothers were trying to figure
33:10.5
33:15.5
out how to fly a plane I think his name
was Samuel Langley and he was just this
33:15.5
33:20.0
high-profile I want to say professor of
technology like an MIT well-funded
33:20.0
33:26.7
well-known connected politically and he
was very publicly trying to be the first
33:26.7
33:31.1
person to fly and so he had all these
resources and yet the Wright brothers
33:31.1
33:33.9
just had like you know people from
whatever small town in Ohio they were
33:33.9
33:38.7
from you know they had no resources but
what they had was a common common goal
33:38.7
33:43.3
together and they won the race right
because they had they had a reason why
33:43.3
33:48.0
Langley’s reason why was to gain fame
and fortune the Wright brothers was to
33:48.0
33:51.7
do something no one ever done before and
and that was a much more compelling
33:51.7
33:55.4
vision and cynic talked about that in
the book but I love that because you
33:55.4
33:59.7
know water treaters whatever our size
but generally you know we worry
33:59.7
34:03.8
sometimes because we’re smaller and
corporate purchasing and you know the
34:03.8
34:06.9
big players gobbling up smaller
companies but you know if they’re why
34:06.9
34:12.5
tends to get fuzzy and you’re why is
focused you know I’ll put my chips on
34:12.5
34:18.0
the people who understand why that’s a
great point and there’s so much that can
34:18.0
34:22.4
come when you understand your why as an
owner but then also when your people
34:22.4
34:26.4
understand that why it empowers them to
make decisions
34:26.4
34:30.5
you’re not there and in most times those
decisions are going to be even better
34:30.5
34:35.7
than the ones that you would have made
well your next process was self assess
34:35.7
34:39.4
and you gave us three areas to do that
you said there was family dynamics
34:39.4
34:44.5
organizational transition and financial
can we speak on each one of those and
34:44.5
34:49.4
when I did this I rehearsed the talk the
night before my wife and my daughter and
34:49.4
34:54.0
daughter-in-law were in town with us and
I said okay so which one of these three
34:54.0
34:58.1
the family dynamics the organizational
transition or the financial part makes
34:58.1
35:02.1
you a little bit you know twitch a
little bit and my daughter right away
35:02.1
35:07.9
said family dynamics because she knows
like a hard family conversations are not
35:07.9
35:12.1
easy as I said before for the best of
families you know in the paper and in
35:12.1
35:16.4
the talk we reference really two parts
of family dynamics to pay attention to
35:16.4
35:22.9
one of these is is the successors
credibility so you know let’s talk about
35:22.9
35:28.0
my story I guess I think when I started
with the company I was 25 right so I was
35:28.0
35:31.6
I you know I had my engineering degree
and MBA really thought I was pretty cool
35:31.6
35:34.7
the people in the company though
remembered me as this high school and
35:34.7
35:39.4
college kid making deliveries and they
also knew I was the boss’s son they had
35:39.4
35:43.8
no idea if I had any ability to do
anything and my dad was still pretty
35:43.8
35:47.4
active and so it was important for me to
figure out how to earn credibility
35:47.4
35:52.2
number one I had to believe in myself
now I I came in with a lot of confidence
35:52.2
35:56.4
it helped that I work for another
company I think and you know gained some
35:56.4
36:02.0
confidence there but then I also had to
earn what I called in the talk external
36:02.0
36:06.8
credibility so I had to get other people
to actually begin to believe that yeah I
36:06.8
36:11.0
could be someone they could follow
someday that’s so important to get
36:11.0
36:15.6
credibility and it’s up to the successor
so the you know the younger generation
36:15.6
36:20.2
has to take that responsibility but then
the older generation can really help
36:20.2
36:25.0
that transition by you know giving him
chances to demonstrate leadership or to
36:25.0
36:29.6
demonstrate technical competency by not
bailing them out that’s probably a huge
36:29.6
36:33.8
one maybe you went through that yourself
but it’s sort of like if the dad rushes
36:33.8
36:37.9
in and bails out the son every time I
mean he’s never gonna get a chance to
36:37.9
36:43.0
earn external credibility in my case
it was exact opposite regarding that he
36:43.0
36:49.3
my dad loved to watch me fail
and I hated it took it personally but I
36:49.3
36:53.5
will tell you that every time I screwed
something up I have learned that much
36:53.5
36:58.3
faster you know what I was doing so so
internal external credibility like that
36:58.3
37:03.2
that’s a big piece of the family
dynamics I would say and then I think
37:03.2
37:09.3
another part of that is you know that
this idea of of letting go and so you
37:09.3
37:14.7
have to kind of have a an idea as the
like in my generation I have to be
37:14.7
37:19.4
willing to let go even if I’m not really
sure that I can trust you know the
37:19.4
37:23.1
people who were taking over and that
lack of trust could be because they
37:23.1
37:25.7
aren’t ready from an ability point of
view but they could be more than ready
37:25.7
37:31.1
and yet I have to deal with the reality
that I’m afraid to let go that I’m
37:31.1
37:36.7
entrusting my financial future to my
kids for example and there’s a pride
37:36.7
37:41.0
piece that says hey no one can do this
job as good as me so so those are two
37:41.0
37:46.2
kind of examples of family dynamic
conversations that I mean frankly need
37:46.2
37:51.9
to be ongoing Tom do you think that part
of the conversation is just so difficult
37:51.9
37:56.0
because you’re talking about somebody
not being here anymore there’s
37:56.0
38:00.6
definitely a piece of that you know and
I think then so in the in the the best
38:00.6
38:04.3
families you know where you don’t want
to see your parents go away but you also
38:04.3
38:08.5
want to be able to spread your wings
yeah there’s definitely a conflict there
38:08.5
38:13.3
yeah so yeah there is there is that
piece no doubt I think it’s more than
38:13.3
38:17.7
that but I think that’s part of it I of
course started my own company so I
38:17.7
38:22.4
didn’t go through this with my father
but both my grandfather and my father
38:22.4
38:28.3
have passed away and they both looked at
that so incredibly differently
38:28.3
38:34.6
my grandfather had absolutely everything
planned out so when it did happen you
38:34.6
38:40.5
know I knew where everything was he had
things written down instructions on what
38:40.5
38:45.8
to do now my father he never wanted to
talk about that we actually had
38:45.8
38:51.0
conversations about what would happen in
the event that that he did pass away and
38:51.0
38:54.1
he never wanted to talk about that so I
can
38:54.1
38:59.0
just imagine if we did own a water
treatment company together that he would
38:59.0
39:02.8
have passed and everything would have
been up in the air and I don’t know if
39:02.8
39:07.4
we would have survived that or not
that’s my experience so my dad died when
39:07.4
39:12.2
he was 74 and if you knew him he would
have told you he plan to live to be 100
39:12.2
39:15.5
right so you’re gonna live to be 100 I
don’t really need to do financial
39:15.5
39:23.1
planning or his dad plan and so he died
with really no estate plan now I had
39:23.1
39:26.6
been in the business at that point for
about I’ve been president for like 7
39:26.6
39:30.8
years so in terms of the day-to-day
operation of the business you know I had
39:30.8
39:34.1
I had a pretty good handle on that there
were a lot of estate things that were
39:34.1
39:39.0
going to be taxing but I say I should
say taxing in quotes because not having
39:39.0
39:42.3
any estate planning he also didn’t
really have any financial estate plan
39:42.3
39:46.3
and you know you hear horror stories of
what happens when that’s the case
39:46.3
39:51.2
because you’re gonna pay estate taxes
and it all comes down to how a business
39:51.2
39:57.1
is valued and in our case we just were
fortunate that you know our appraisal
39:57.1
40:01.4
was appraised really really low and the
IRS accepted that appraisal and so we
40:01.4
40:06.2
had enough cash in my dad’s profit
sharing to pay estate taxes but if it
40:06.2
40:10.1
had been valued at what the market value
was at the time we would had to sell the
40:10.1
40:14.4
business so it’s not an easy
conversation for let’s say a Sunday have
40:14.4
40:18.5
with a father about a dad I need this
opportunity you know this is part of my
40:18.5
40:22.7
credibility building process the other
thing that we talked about was
40:22.7
40:29.0
especially in extended families is this
idea of good owners versus bad owners
40:29.0
40:32.9
and so there are there are good owners
who see themselves as stewards of a
40:32.9
40:37.5
resource that you care deeply about
their customers and employees they view
40:37.5
40:41.4
their job as a responsibility and not as
an entitlement and you know by far
40:41.4
40:46.3
probably everyone I talked to is in that
camp but you also hear stories about say
40:46.3
40:49.8
an owner who’s not involved in the
business could be a cousin or uncle
40:49.8
40:53.5
whatever the case may be
stepmother and they only view the
40:53.5
40:57.9
business as an asset to sort of be milk
they don’t care about the employees they
40:57.9
41:02.5
become not only a cash strain on the
business but a huge emotional and mental
41:02.5
41:08.0
distraction and so it’s best to as early
in the process as you can identify
41:08.0
41:11.6
someone who really shouldn’t be owning
the business you know because they’re
41:11.6
41:15.5
just knock and they’re going to always
be kind of a thorn in the side and and
41:15.5
41:19.7
have that frank conversation too and
then execute a financial plan to get
41:19.7
41:24.8
them out because a few stories there are
a few stories involving lawsuits and you
41:24.8
41:28.8
know it’s bad enough that that affects
the business but it wrecks family
41:28.8
41:34.4
relationships as well and so again
having having the hard conversation it’s
41:34.4
41:39.1
hard but will always be better for
having had it rather than avoiding it
41:39.1
41:44.0
would you say it’s only hard at first
and then you get through that my guess
41:44.0
41:49.2
from people talking to me what is that
it’s hard all the time until you’re done
41:49.2
41:54.5
you know so you know maybe the whole
transition process takes two years or
41:54.5
41:59.7
three years I mean it can easily take
that or more more it’s like a day-to-day
41:59.7
42:04.9
discipline you know and so discipline
sometimes not easy it’s just that I
42:04.9
42:08.2
again I heard repeatedly from the
interviews when they were done with it
42:08.2
42:12.3
though you know they ranked I asked
people to score what they thought of the
42:12.3
42:16.9
success of the transition process and so
many people score to the town at ten but
42:16.9
42:20.6
when they were a few people would say it
felt like it was three out of ten you
42:20.6
42:23.2
know because it just was like kind of
just ever gonna end and we ever gonna
42:23.2
42:28.1
get to a you know resolution on this
point maybe that means the score goes up
42:28.1
42:32.4
when you actually get through it that is
what it means exactly what it means
42:32.4
42:37.2
so you mentioned step two was
organizational transition can you talk a
42:37.2
42:41.3
little bit about that yeah two pieces to
that so I mentioned the letting go piece
42:41.3
42:46.5
and the biggest thing to say about that
is face your fears you know people who
42:46.5
42:51.4
are in an ownership position of a water
treatment company are you know that they
42:51.4
42:55.1
have this exalted status even if they
don’t have an ego themselves they’re
42:55.1
42:58.8
still up on a pedestal and that’s easy
and then that’s that’s an isolating
42:58.8
43:03.1
place but then there’s a persona that
you feel like you have to maintain and
43:03.1
43:07.6
admitting that you’re afraid of anything
is can be viewed as a sign of weakness
43:07.6
43:12.5
but I think that it’s okay it’s actually
I think healthy to admit that you’re
43:12.5
43:17.1
afraid of letting go you got to deal
with that because the trust issue then
43:17.1
43:20.3
becomes what’s going on inside of you
not so much how the organization is
43:20.3
43:25.3
running so face the fear of letting go
number one and that’s your job secondly
43:25.3
43:29.8
is pay attention to how the leaders are
being developed and there’s a variety of
43:29.8
43:35.7
resources for this but is to be
intentional so I’ll say like in our case
43:35.7
43:42.5
both my son and my son-in-law have been
in in structured programs and in
43:42.5
43:47.1
one-on-one mentorship and in the case of
one-on-one mentorship you know I’m not
43:47.1
43:51.1
involved and frankly probably some of
the days on the topic of conversation
43:51.1
43:55.1
like you know they’re frustrated and
they naturally need a place to be able
43:55.1
43:59.8
to talk about that stuff so developing
leadership skills and then developing
43:59.8
44:04.6
technical skills so an obvious example
of that is is having the successor
44:04.6
44:09.5
generation get their CWT certification
but you need a leadership plan because
44:09.5
44:13.3
you might be fine with letting go but
you’re not going to trust the business
44:13.3
44:16.8
to someone who who doesn’t have the
character that you know they don’t have
44:16.8
44:20.3
and who doesn’t have the technical
competence you want to make sure there’s
44:20.3
44:24.8
a plan to get that lots of resources
there but again you got to be sort of
44:24.8
44:28.5
intentional because you’re saying I’m
saying I read hey read you need to grow
44:28.5
44:32.4
in this area and we are good at talking
like that but you know there can be a
44:32.4
44:38.4
painful conversation so in terms of the
whole area of organizational transition
44:38.4
44:42.6
that’s a big piece Tom you mentioned
meeting with a third party and I’ve been
44:42.6
44:47.4
doing that for years something I like to
say on the show is you don’t know what
44:47.4
44:52.0
you don’t know and I actually learned
that from my business coach Tim Fulton
44:52.0
44:57.6
and he has recommended so many wonderful
books for me to read when it comes to
44:57.6
45:02.0
business and I remember one of them was
called dance in the endzone and I can’t
45:02.0
45:05.9
remember what the subtitle was it was
something like the business owners exit
45:05.9
45:10.3
planning playbook or something like that
had a football theme he said there were
45:10.3
45:15.1
four ways that you can transition a
business there was one that he called
45:15.1
45:20.8
passers and passers looked for a family
member in their company that they could
45:20.8
45:25.8
transition to there was an Audi in an
Audi look for an outside third party
45:25.8
45:32.2
that they could sell to there was an any
and in any was looking for a trusted
45:32.2
45:34.9
employee that they could transition to
and
45:34.9
45:39.1
fourth one was called a squeezer they
just really didn’t care what happened to
45:39.1
45:42.7
the business when they were gone they
were just gonna squeeze every last drop
45:42.7
45:49.7
out of it I’m curious in your research
and developing this paper did you find
45:49.7
45:53.6
that those were four did I leave some
out what do you think I think it’s
45:53.6
45:58.9
actually a pretty inclusive list and I
probably heard stories of all four of
45:58.9
46:04.7
those you know the multi-generational
kind of tact of the paper refers to I
46:04.7
46:08.3
guess you call it the pastor’s right
trying to get it to the next generation
46:08.3
46:13.7
but there was one not so a good story
where there was a son intending to
46:13.7
46:18.8
inherit the business and his father sold
it to someone else so instead of passing
46:18.8
46:22.9
he went to being an Audi that was hard
to hear but again he survived it right
46:22.9
46:26.5
he survived and came out of his stronger
but I yeah I wouldn’t wish that on
46:26.5
46:31.5
anybody I don’t think I also heard some
companies who don’t necessarily have a
46:31.5
46:37.3
family member to pass it to who are
looking at could be employees so you
46:37.3
46:41.0
know it could be an esop for example or
you know a key management member or key
46:41.0
46:46.0
management team that could could could
do the exit strategy and then there were
46:46.0
46:50.7
a couple businesses where there wasn’t a
successor identified or the company
46:50.7
46:55.7
might have been smaller and the squeezer
I mean that’s that’s probably not fair
46:55.7
46:59.2
to describe these companies this way but
they realized that this is what they
46:59.2
47:02.9
were going to do until they closed the
doors and they were okay with that that
47:02.9
47:06.3
was the best option they saw so I
actually I heard all four examples
47:06.3
47:10.8
did you hear one more than another well
definitely the passing because I think
47:10.8
47:15.2
the the interest even in talking to me
was people who are in the middle of the
47:15.2
47:18.4
same thing that I’m going through and
then of course there’s the financial
47:18.4
47:24.8
component to that can you speak a little
on that that is be intentional and and
47:24.8
47:29.5
deal with a very sensitive subject
because you want a clear financial plan
47:29.5
47:34.6
and I think it’s very appropriate for
the existing generation of the current
47:34.6
47:39.4
generation to want to get their
investment out in fact if they don’t
47:39.4
47:44.7
they run the risk of of setting up a
really unhealthy relationship twenty or
47:44.7
47:48.8
thirty years from now so one story to
that point there was somebody
47:48.8
47:53.4
they’re 50s talking to them and
successful and I think they love their
47:53.4
47:57.9
parents but wanting to invest in the
business but there really hadn’t been
47:57.9
48:03.1
any kind of financial transfer and so
now the the 80 year old parents this was
48:03.1
48:06.5
still their livelihood and so they’re
dependent on that livelihood they’ve
48:06.5
48:11.6
gotten used to it and they’re reluctant
to invest in the business growth now I
48:11.6
48:14.8
actually get their point of view you
know at 80 I think I would feel the same
48:14.8
48:19.9
way but if they had had a financial plan
identified that worked you know let’s
48:19.9
48:23.8
say 30 years ago and neither you know
the child nor the parent would be in
48:23.8
48:28.3
this position so the financial thing is
just simply this have a clear exit have
48:28.3
48:31.6
it in writing it might involve a buy
sell agreement you might have to spend
48:31.6
48:36.5
money on lawyers god forbid and have a
goal I think and I heard this a lot have
48:36.5
48:40.7
a goal that okay I need to get my money
out of the business it’s the right thing
48:40.7
48:45.2
to do but I don’t want to burden my son
or my daughter and and I heard I heard
48:45.2
48:50.3
stories more than one story where you
know the owner slowed down the amount of
48:50.3
48:54.7
money or they reduced it so that they
didn’t put a unnecessary burden on the
48:54.7
49:00.2
successor generation so simply put you
have a clear written financial exit
49:00.2
49:04.3
strategy and just have a commitment that
you won’t make it a financial burden on
49:04.3
49:08.4
the next generation I’m curious of all
the people you interviewed how many
49:08.4
49:12.6
actually had a buy and sell agreement
yeah more than I thought
49:12.6
49:18.7
but I would say out of 22 I would say at
least 6 or 7 yeah and when you think
49:18.7
49:23.1
about a document like that the things
that I would think of I’m not going to
49:23.1
49:25.8
think about everything that an attorney
would think of I recently went through
49:25.8
49:30.8
this process and he brought things into
the picture that I just wouldn’t have
49:30.8
49:35.5
thought of and then also ways to
calculate the worth of the business yeah
49:35.5
49:41.3
and that has to be part of a buy-sell
agreement is a independent valuation or
49:41.3
49:45.5
you can just agree ahead of time as long
as everybody’s in agreement and you put
49:45.5
49:50.0
in writing we’re gonna value this
business at whatever a certain multiple
49:50.0
49:54.9
of earnings or a dollar-for-dollar or
sales whatever and agreed-upon measure
49:54.9
49:59.2
is you can do that but you have to all
have agreement the flip side of that is
49:59.2
50:01.7
you know to pay evaluator which will
cost more money
50:01.7
50:05.1
but that’s
probably a more independent and probably
50:05.1
50:10.1
objective appraisal the last thing that
you recommended that everybody used
50:10.1
50:15.4
during this process was to get good
resources what are some of the resources
50:15.4
50:20.1
you recommend well I’m gonna say number
one for me it’s kind of get some
50:20.1
50:25.3
advisors around you who you trust it
could be people in the community who are
50:25.3
50:29.4
accessible business owners it could be
could be your accountant it could be a
50:29.4
50:34.4
financial planner it could be a friend
that you trust but open yourself up to
50:34.4
50:39.5
like the wisdom of a group and and be
intentional about that don’t really
50:39.5
50:42.8
think you can figure this out because
it’s a very tête especially you get to
50:42.8
50:47.6
the financial piece of this it’s a very
technical subject so there are a lot of
50:47.6
50:51.3
peer groups that you can be a part of
for me you know I’ve been part of an
50:51.3
50:55.8
advisory group now for five years it’s
been I will say simply life-changing but
50:55.8
51:00.2
one of the areas that they will help
hold me accountable in is you know the
51:00.2
51:04.7
formation of an advisory board somewhere
down the road so that’s the best wisdom
51:04.7
51:10.1
I think for the whole process is to get
some advisors on your team who you trust
51:10.1
51:14.4
there are also a lot of resources
available in the industry I’ve listed a
51:14.4
51:18.3
bunch in the paper but for example
you’ve heard of Patrick Lencioni so he
51:18.3
51:22.7
has a leadership author and he has an
organization called the table group and
51:22.7
51:27.1
they will help set up strategic planning
you know for companies that’s what they
51:27.1
51:29.8
exist to do
we’ve talked what we might talk about
51:29.8
51:34.1
EEO s that’s another system that’s
popular frankly there are a bunch of
51:34.1
51:37.8
them out there but be intentional about
looking informed there are national
51:37.8
51:43.0
resources but there a lot that are local
the other category of resources I ought
51:43.0
51:47.6
to throw in here too is so-so I needed
to get wisdom I needed to get people
51:47.6
51:52.4
that could hold me accountable but then
you know going back to the leadership
51:52.4
51:57.4
development piece look for resources for
your the next generation who needs
51:57.4
52:02.5
development right so like what kind of
mentor do they need what kind of you
52:02.5
52:05.9
know business training do they need is
it at a local university for us in
52:05.9
52:08.9
Chicago
Loyola University’s Graduate School of
52:08.9
52:13.2
Business has a really excellent family
business center I also there are two
52:13.2
52:15.8
different people who mentioned and I’m
not gonna be able to think of the name
52:15.8
52:19.2
of it
goldman sachs it was a goldman sachs
52:19.2
52:23.4
leadership training program and two
people just raved about that so there’s
52:23.4
52:28.2
lots of resources for kind of that
leadership development piece too but you
52:28.2
52:31.5
know don’t assume that you’re gonna
develop your son or daughter because you
52:31.5
52:36.3
know so much there’s a lot of dynamics
there you know get some wisdom around
52:36.3
52:41.2
that and take advantage of that as well
you mentioned Patrick Lencioni I had
52:41.2
52:45.3
somebody from the table group in review
on the show he was actually episode 45
52:45.3
52:50.6
his name was Rick Packer and I was just
so impressed with everything that
52:50.6
52:55.5
Patrick Lencioni would wrote and it’s
it’s amazing because when you we’re
52:55.5
52:59.1
gonna read talk about a OS but when you
look at what Patrick Lencioni rights
52:59.1
53:05.9
versus a Vern Harnish of Scaling UP!
versus Gino Wichman of traction they’re
53:05.9
53:11.1
so similar they are and so yeah my
experience is they all they all are
53:11.1
53:16.3
focused on the same principles it’s just
if nothing else its own language it’s
53:16.3
53:20.1
you know it’s clear language around
those principles anuncio knees book on
53:20.1
53:23.4
that subject is called the advantage it
sounds like we have a very similar
53:23.4
53:30.0
reading list sounds like I’m curious
when it’s the best time to start talking
53:30.0
53:36.0
about a transition like this yesterday
understood well we brought up a OS so I
53:36.0
53:40.0
want to get straight into that because
you and I immediately connected on a OS
53:40.0
53:46.0
I’ve been doing a OS for a little better
than five years and you guys how long
53:46.0
53:51.8
it’s about us two we started in 2014
okay so for those of you out there and
53:51.8
53:56.0
the Scaling UP! nation that don’t know
what we are talking about we are talking
53:56.0
53:59.4
about the entrepreneurial operating
system and that was from a book that
53:59.4
54:07.2
Jena Whitman wrote called traction and I
just got so much freedom when I read
54:07.2
54:11.4
that book and I would have never heard
of that book had it not been from the
54:11.4
54:16.0
Vistage format that I go to every single
month and I meet with other business
54:16.0
54:20.9
owners and somebody recommended that to
me and while reading that book it gave
54:20.9
54:25.0
me the freedom to realize that I didn’t
have to be good at absolutely everything
54:25.0
54:30.1
that has to happen in the company and
there are other people that
54:30.1
54:35.0
could do that but you have to have a set
of parameters to make sure that
54:35.0
54:38.8
everybody is doing everything that
they’re supposed to be doing we’re all
54:38.8
54:44.2
tracking toward a particular number and
we have a way of knowing where
54:44.2
54:49.3
everything is at any moment in time and
that all boiled down was the
54:49.3
54:54.0
entrepreneurial operating system I’ve
heard several water treatment companies
54:54.0
54:59.5
that use z/os and I’ve heard lots of
other companies that use AOS because cos
54:59.5
55:05.0
does not care what type of business that
you have you just plug in what you do to
55:05.0
55:09.1
it I’ve had a couple of people on the
show to talk about EOS and Tom that’s
55:09.1
55:12.3
one of the great things about having
your own podcast you get these
55:12.3
55:17.7
high-level people like yourself that you
could just get free advice from and two
55:17.7
55:23.1
of those people were Mark Williams he
was on episode 38 and then Mike Payton
55:23.1
55:30.2
who I believe is now the CEO of cos he
was episode 85 so now that the nation
55:30.2
55:37.2
knows what a OS is I’m curious why did
you decide that you needed something
55:37.2
55:42.9
called a OS yeah and it was a
foundational decision and I don’t mean
55:42.9
55:47.1
to make that sound more grand than it
was it was super nothing more important
55:47.1
55:52.8
I would say so I joined a group a group
similar to Vistage called convene back
55:52.8
55:58.4
in 2014 and I would say I joined the
group somewhat a desperation because we
55:58.4
56:04.2
were as large as we had ever been as a
corporation in terms of sales but we
56:04.2
56:07.9
weren’t nearly as profitable as I
thought we should have been culture wise
56:07.9
56:12.2
we weren’t where we wanted to be and so
I was kind of grasping and so I got
56:12.2
56:16.2
invited into this group called convene
and one of the first meetings just like
56:16.2
56:20.5
you exactly like you one of the
presenting company said this is a system
56:20.5
56:25.3
we’re using at our at our business and
I’m like you know that’s what we got to
56:25.3
56:29.2
do you know so I got excited I read the
traction book just like you and I got to
56:29.2
56:34.1
a place in the book where they described
documenting what they call your core
56:34.1
56:37.9
processes and I don’t want to get into
the details but basically he talked
56:37.9
56:41.3
about at the end of this process you’re
going to have a binder that’s going to
56:41.3
56:45.7
be called you know the HOH way
that sold it for me I’m like that’s what
56:45.7
56:50.2
I’ve wanted for a long time I want to
codify what I think is the HOH way like
56:50.2
56:54.4
what makes us different in the industry
you know and and that had been
56:54.4
56:58.5
particularly elusive but now here was a
system there really if you just followed
56:58.5
57:03.7
it was going to allow you to get to that
place so we started that process and
57:03.7
57:08.0
it’s just kind of like with this whole
subject today I guess we can say you
57:08.0
57:11.5
know it’s it’s simple but it’s
definitely not easy and you know our
57:11.5
57:16.3
leadership team has you know it’s about
a hundred percent turnover I mean
57:16.3
57:20.0
there’s one person on a leadership team
who was there when we started in 2014
57:20.0
57:24.2
one of the big pieces Trace and you know
this is like kind of an accountability
57:24.2
57:29.0
chart and if you’re going to do this
well you have to deal with okay do I
57:29.0
57:32.5
have the right people in the right seats
and that can involve even in the
57:32.5
57:35.6
leadership of the company and that’s
where you need the accountability to say
57:35.6
57:39.3
oK you’ve identified that you know you
might have the right person high
57:39.3
57:43.5
character but they’re just in the wrong
seat and you got to make a change and a
57:43.5
57:47.7
lot of what we’ve done started with that
but it’s really transformed how we do
57:47.7
57:52.1
things and like I say I might die it’s
just key to how we operate these days I
57:52.1
57:59.1
will tell you that when we first started
us we had some pushback and we later
57:59.1
58:04.5
found that those people weren’t
necessarily the right people for our
58:04.5
58:10.4
company and they ended up leaving
because of the things that us laid out
58:10.4
58:15.5
and today I still keep in contact with
some of them they’re so much happier
58:15.5
58:20.5
working in another field and now we
found somebody that is the right person
58:20.5
58:27.3
and they are just doing amazing work had
it not been for us we wouldn’t have
58:27.3
58:32.5
found the right person for that see but
even worse there would be a person in
58:32.5
58:36.9
that seat that wasn’t happy coming to
work every day the u.s. is just amazing
58:36.9
58:40.6
the accountability chart and all the
different things if you’re curious about
58:40.6
58:47.7
that we talked about all those tools on
episodes 38 and 85 but I’m curious I
58:47.7
58:52.4
shared a little bit about my experience
what happened when you guys started us
58:52.4
58:57.8
was everybody for it no because it was
uncomfortable I mean
58:57.8
59:03.1
you go through the the work and I mean
number one there’s the regular habit of
59:03.1
59:08.0
meetings and no one likes meetings but
meetings are the lifeblood of an
59:08.0
59:11.0
organization it’s not that you don’t
need meetings you just need productive
59:11.0
59:14.8
efficient meetings so we had to get in
the rhythm of meetings and we started
59:14.8
59:17.6
holding people more accountable because
if you’re gonna follow the system
59:17.6
59:22.1
accountability is part of it not just
for financial targets but it’s just you
59:22.1
59:25.2
know do what you say you’re gonna do
people didn’t like that I would say
59:25.2
59:30.5
there was pushback for that we had a
sales force and the sales force leader
59:30.5
59:35.0
was not implementing it to our entire
sales force so half of our company
59:35.0
59:40.0
wasn’t involved in the process so yeah
there was I would say a lot of pushback
59:40.0
59:44.6
it does start though with you know with
you and it starts with the leadership
59:44.6
59:50.4
team and so you know for us it was a
process of getting on the same page as a
59:50.4
59:54.4
leadership team because then the phrases
you can cascade what needs to be
59:54.4
59:57.3
communicated down throughout the
organization and trusted it’s going to
59:57.3
1:00:01.3
happen whenever you’re dealing with
change and whenever you’re dealing with
1:00:01.3
1:00:05.1
like restructuring an organization you
know there’s always going to be pushback
1:00:05.1
1:00:10.3
what are some differences that you see
today that came directly from using the
1:00:10.3
1:00:14.0
entrepreneur operating system well you
know my employees when they listen to
1:00:14.0
1:00:18.1
this they’ll think this is funny but our
communication has gotten better if
1:00:18.1
1:00:20.8
people were gonna say you know what’s
our single biggest challenge today
1:00:20.8
1:00:23.4
they’re probably going to say it’s
communication so we have a lot of work
1:00:23.4
1:00:29.8
to do but it is so much better and it’s
better because of the rhythm of Eos they
1:00:29.8
1:00:33.8
have you know weekly meetings and
quarterly off-site meetings and so our
1:00:33.8
1:00:38.8
communication is better I think that our
accountability is better than it’s ever
1:00:38.8
1:00:43.3
been in our history again that makes
some people uncomfortable and it forces
1:00:43.3
1:00:48.0
some hard decisions but everybody wants
everyone else be held accountable you
1:00:48.0
1:00:53.2
know and and so it’s a really healthy
thing so I think the accountability
1:00:53.2
1:00:57.3
piece has been good I would say at this
point trace maybe the single biggest
1:00:57.3
1:01:02.7
thing today versus when we started in
2014 is I have a leadership team we’re
1:01:02.7
1:01:06.6
all engaged we all are in the same
mission whereas when I started there was
1:01:06.6
1:01:10.9
even pushback on the leadership team now
it doesn’t mean we always agree and
1:01:10.9
1:01:13.8
we’ve had
we have heat exchanges you know fairly
1:01:13.8
1:01:18.6
regularly in our Monday morning meetings
but probably the biggest change is I
1:01:18.6
1:01:23.6
think the leadership team of HOH now is
as strong as it’s ever been and it has a
1:01:23.6
1:01:29.0
whole lot to do with the structure of us
you’ve been using EOS for five years
1:01:29.0
1:01:33.5
what do you know now that you wish you
knew when you were implementing the
1:01:33.5
1:01:39.1
process I don’t know what comes to mind
is I wished I knew then how hard it was
1:01:39.1
1:01:43.9
going to be especially regarding people
but on the other hand if I really knew
1:01:43.9
1:01:48.1
how hard it was going to be regarding
you know people decisions you know some
1:01:48.1
1:01:52.2
you know I didn’t want to make I might
not have made them you know so I think
1:01:52.2
1:01:56.7
that when you know the thing about EOS
is they give you a really simple formula
1:01:56.7
1:02:00.8
and they don’t sugarcoat that it’s going
to be hard but sometimes they just don’t
1:02:00.8
1:02:04.0
communicate hard it is much like this
whole idea of you know
1:02:04.0
1:02:06.8
multi-generational planning right you’re
glad when you’ve gone through the
1:02:06.8
1:02:11.3
process point when you’re in the middle
of it though it’s not fun maybe a heads
1:02:11.3
1:02:14.2
up would have been nice well they
probably wouldn’t have sold as many
1:02:14.2
1:02:19.5
books if they did that exactly yeah last
year you spoke at the association of
1:02:19.5
1:02:24.2
Water Technologies business owners
conference specifically on AOS what kind
1:02:24.2
1:02:29.3
of questions was the audience asking you
I remember the questions for me regarded
1:02:29.3
1:02:33.8
the organizational changes that I try to
be transparent about so let me get back
1:02:33.8
1:02:38.5
to the accountability piece for us as an
organization vos has been an important
1:02:38.5
1:02:42.8
part probably an even more important
part is this advisory group called
1:02:42.8
1:02:47.3
convened that I’m in because what
happens is if I’m not held accountable
1:02:47.3
1:02:53.8
to make hard decisions the data that iOS
provides you is useless right and so
1:02:53.8
1:02:59.3
what I shared a little bit last year was
you know this you know major changeover
1:02:59.3
1:03:03.1
of our leadership team and that got
people’s attention because I’ll tell you
1:03:03.1
1:03:07.2
trace like in every organization
unfortunately well it’s just human
1:03:07.2
1:03:11.5
nature right you’re gonna have us uses
this term I’ll explain for people the
1:03:11.5
1:03:15.5
right person in the right seat so the
right person is defined as the
1:03:15.5
1:03:20.8
individual who lives to your core values
we have four core values and so we’ve
1:03:20.8
1:03:24.4
got a lot of right people in our
organization I’m a huge percentage very
1:03:24.4
1:03:26.8
proud of that
and then are they in the right seat ie
1:03:26.8
1:03:30.7
are they in the right job do they do
they get the job do they actually want
1:03:30.7
1:03:34.9
the job do they have the ability to do
it so we do this right person right seat
1:03:34.9
1:03:38.6
analysis and you’re talking about
messing with people who you’re probably
1:03:38.6
1:03:43.9
friends with long-term employees who you
care deeply about and you recognize that
1:03:43.9
1:03:48.3
there may be really not the right person
more often in our case they weren’t in
1:03:48.3
1:03:52.2
the right seat and so I think the
reaction I got at the owners meeting was
1:03:52.2
1:03:55.8
some people were just thinking to
themselves you know I’ve got I’ve got 1
1:03:55.8
1:03:59.8
or 2 people for my organization that I
feel that way about and so they asked a
1:03:59.8
1:04:05.0
lot about how that was I think that it’s
always the people so gos you know gives
1:04:05.0
1:04:09.2
you metrics and there are six different
pieces to the system but there’s a
1:04:09.2
1:04:13.5
people component and without a doubt
it’s always it’s always people so that’s
1:04:13.5
1:04:19.0
I remember from that is just they’re
looking to me sincerely saying how do I
1:04:19.0
1:04:23.7
do this with my team I remember having
conversations with other Association of
1:04:23.7
1:04:29.3
Water Technologies members and I would
talk to them about a OS and a lot of
1:04:29.3
1:04:32.2
them would say oh we already do that we
already do that and when you really talk
1:04:32.2
1:04:36.0
to them about what they’re doing they’re
not doing anywhere near that so I was
1:04:36.0
1:04:41.0
just curious if that came up at all in
New Orleans it did not but I see that a
1:04:41.0
1:04:45.4
lot in in kind of a OS community that
I’m in again I think that’s human nature
1:04:45.4
1:04:51.2
this is gonna sound like a bizarre
analogy but I deal a lot in in kind of
1:04:51.2
1:04:55.2
the recovery world and so in so picture
an addict who knows he needs to stop
1:04:55.2
1:05:00.1
drinking and he says he stopped drinking
but really on the side he still is you
1:05:00.1
1:05:04.5
know he’s not really embraced the
program right and so you have people who
1:05:04.5
1:05:08.3
were kind of and we would use the phrase
he’s working at recovery but he’s not
1:05:08.3
1:05:12.2
really in recovery so the same thing
applies to EOS and a variety of other
1:05:12.2
1:05:16.1
disciplines you know you’re kind of
working at AOS but you haven’t really
1:05:16.1
1:05:23.0
you know bought into the system and it
shows it shows in the frustration that
1:05:23.0
1:05:27.6
comes out in terms of lack of results
and a lack of focus and stuff earlier
1:05:27.6
1:05:34.7
you spoke about level 10 meetings and
that is how a oh s really redefines the
1:05:34.7
1:05:40.2
meeting most meetings that we sit
grew outside of Eos could have been done
1:05:40.2
1:05:45.7
in an email level ten meetings are
exactly what they need to be and there
1:05:45.7
1:05:50.3
are actually really great meetings one
of the things that I’ll do is I’ll sit
1:05:50.3
1:05:54.6
in on level 10 meetings of other
businesses and they’ll do the same thing
1:05:54.6
1:06:00.0
with me and I’ll just critique what’s
going on and they’ll do the same and I
1:06:00.0
1:06:04.7
remember I was sitting in at one company
and they had about seven people on their
1:06:04.7
1:06:07.6
leadership team which I thought was a
bit much but they didn’t ask me about
1:06:07.6
1:06:14.5
that but what they did is they everybody
gave the rady a ten and at best I would
1:06:14.5
1:06:21.8
have given it a four so I’m curious when
you are developing a OS do you feel that
1:06:21.8
1:06:28.3
it is of worth to find someone else
that’s going through a OS and I’m
1:06:28.3
1:06:32.1
wondering if you’ve done that probably
haven’t talked to other water treatment
1:06:32.1
1:06:36.1
companies doing EOS but we paid a lot of
attention to I think they’re called
1:06:36.1
1:06:38.9
facilitators you know that the
consultants who really helped set it up
1:06:38.9
1:06:43.3
you know a piece of advice would be if
people are kind of playing this you know
1:06:43.3
1:06:47.7
take your advisors advice seriously so
we talked about working at EOS versus
1:06:47.7
1:06:51.6
embracing it one way to embrace is to do
what your advisor tells you don’t
1:06:51.6
1:06:55.7
overthink it don’t reinvent the wheel we
don’t hit use an advisor now we’re on
1:06:55.7
1:06:59.4
our own but for the first two years we
really tried to follow exactly what they
1:06:59.4
1:07:04.0
told us to do without overthinking it
and I think that was huge and again for
1:07:04.0
1:07:08.6
me I’m just gonna say as president the
company I need a board or I need some
1:07:08.6
1:07:11.9
people who can hold me accountable to
actually do what I’m saying I’m gonna do
1:07:11.9
1:07:16.6
again and and that’s a that’s a really
surefire way to know if the the
1:07:16.6
1:07:21.6
program’s getting implemented I’ll talk
to my CEO s you know the guy who set us
1:07:21.6
1:07:24.2
up originally and I’ll tell him where
we’re at kind of the things we’ve been
1:07:24.2
1:07:28.5
doing and he’s always very positive
because he knows our history and he’s
1:07:28.5
1:07:32.5
like wow you’ve really followed through
on stuff and that’s always encouraging
1:07:32.5
1:07:36.3
for me to hear we did bring up the
association of Water Technologies
1:07:36.3
1:07:42.4
business owners conference you not only
went there last year you spoke last year
1:07:42.4
1:07:46.9
so for the listeners out there and the
Scaling UP! nation if they were to go to
1:07:46.9
1:07:52.2
that what can they expect
I think the value for me has been you
1:07:52.2
1:07:56.1
know it’s a focused group of people who
have kind of the same mission right so
1:07:56.1
1:07:59.7
you know if you go to the AWT convention
you’ve got three tracks could be
1:07:59.7
1:08:03.6
technical could be you know sales
development and it could be an ownership
1:08:03.6
1:08:06.8
track but you know the the ownership
meetings that I’ve been at have been
1:08:06.8
1:08:10.2
good because you’re just with other
owners so you’re dealing with the issues
1:08:10.2
1:08:14.3
that you probably most often deal with
on a day-to-day basis and I think the
1:08:14.3
1:08:18.2
committee’s done a good job of providing
resources to address those specific
1:08:18.2
1:08:22.8
issues so it won’t be you won’t be
talking about you know a technical
1:08:22.8
1:08:27.3
problem or a new product innovation
you’re gonna be talking about you know
1:08:27.3
1:08:32.2
legal issues and you know State Planning
issues you know whatever owners have to
1:08:32.2
1:08:36.1
deal with you know when they’re not
doing the business of water treatment so
1:08:36.1
1:08:39.4
it’s a good you know it’s always good to
get away from the business the phrases
1:08:39.4
1:08:44.6
and on the eos invented this but you
want to be working on your business as
1:08:44.6
1:08:48.5
opposed to in it right so when you’re in
it it gets back that we said originally
1:08:48.5
1:08:52.0
when you’re in it you’re you’re you’re
doing water treatment but when you’re
1:08:52.0
1:08:55.8
working on the business you’re thinking
about why you do water treatment and so
1:08:55.8
1:08:59.6
if you can get out of the office for a
few days and go talk to a bunch of
1:08:59.6
1:09:02.3
people who are in the same situation
that’s you that’s always going to be a
1:09:02.3
1:09:09.0
healthy thing to do and that’s coming up
February 10th through 11th on 2020
1:09:09.0
1:09:13.7
that’s gonna be Clearwater Florida I
believe right well Tom I know I could
1:09:13.7
1:09:18.2
probably ask you a thousand other
questions but I know you have some other
1:09:18.2
1:09:22.0
things that you have planned today so
I’m gonna go straight to the lightning
1:09:22.0
1:09:27.4
route if you’re ready for that
sure all right so now if you can go back
1:09:27.4
1:09:33.6
in time and visit yourself on your very
first day as a water treat or what
1:09:33.6
1:09:38.1
advice would you give yourself learn and
be patient what are the last three books
1:09:38.1
1:09:46.0
that you’ve read I have read Norwegian
mythology interesting I have read a book
1:09:46.0
1:09:52.1
on prayer a couple books related to
estate planning I’m curious what’s one
1:09:52.1
1:09:57.6
of your favorite water treatment
reference books well for me old school
1:09:57.6
1:10:02.2
will be the best handbook is that still
in print I don’t know I don’t know but I
1:10:02.2
1:10:04.7
you
did all the time the other thing that
1:10:04.7
1:10:07.9
might not still be in print that I use
all the time I don’t you would remember
1:10:07.9
1:10:12.3
this called the perm unit handbook I’ve
never heard of that perm unit was I
1:10:12.3
1:10:16.7
believe a resin manufacturer back in the
day but they had just a super helpful
1:10:16.7
1:10:22.2
handbook with a bunch of tables and
conversion factors and a lot of you know
1:10:22.2
1:10:27.3
ion exchange and resin technology
information so for me the resources were
1:10:27.3
1:10:31.8
in the dark ages the Betts handbook and
the per mutant handbook I interviewed
1:10:31.8
1:10:35.9
Jay farmer II not too terribly long ago
and he turned me on to a book and I
1:10:35.9
1:10:40.3
don’t remember the title but the author
was Leo Pincus does that ring any bells
1:10:40.3
1:10:46.4
it does yeah I can’t think of the title
either that book is fantastic yeah it’s
1:10:46.4
1:10:52.3
not in print anymore and I found it used
but I did find it and it is a very
1:10:52.3
1:10:58.4
helpful resource eventually Hollywood is
going to learn about your life story
1:10:58.4
1:11:05.1
when they do who plays you let’s see I
should have an answer to that I’m
1:11:05.1
1:11:08.6
getting older if he wasn’t already older
than me I would want Sean Connery to
1:11:08.6
1:11:14.3
play me there you go
so more of a James Bond type approach
1:11:14.3
1:11:19.4
today yeah I mean I think Sean Connery
is is still very very cool and then my
1:11:19.4
1:11:24.1
final question if you could talk to
anybody throughout history who would it
1:11:24.1
1:11:29.4
be with and why it would be Jesus
because he’s the most important figure
1:11:29.4
1:11:34.4
in history and I’d have a whole lot of
questions for him well Tom I had a whole
1:11:34.4
1:11:39.4
bunch of questions for you and I have a
whole bunch more so I really want to
1:11:39.4
1:11:45.1
thank you for coming on Scaling UP! h2o
and it is not out of the realm of
1:11:45.1
1:11:47.9
possibility that I invite you back be my
pleasure
1:11:47.9
1:11:53.3
Tracy enjoyed it well Tom I thought you
did a great job at the association of
1:11:53.3
1:11:58.6
Water Technologies convention you have
brought all of that and more to this
1:11:58.6
1:12:03.7
Scaling UP! nation and thank you for that
so you know I got to tell you every time
1:12:03.7
1:12:10.7
I think about generations I get confused
I interviewed a gentleman last year his
1:12:10.7
1:12:16.8
name was Jeff Butler and what he does is
he tries to educate people on
1:12:16.8
1:12:22.2
generations I think he had some of the
most simplistic and easy-to-understand
1:12:22.2
1:12:27.0
definitions that I’ve heard so if you
want to check out episode 104 if you
1:12:27.0
1:12:32.5
haven’t already that might be a great
compliment to what you just heard now
1:12:32.5
1:12:39.0
the thing I really learned from Tom’s
data is that you know he talked to so
1:12:39.0
1:12:46.1
many water treatment company owners and
sons and fathers and all that was based
1:12:46.1
1:12:52.7
on was really preparing for the next
step what is the next step and I think
1:12:52.7
1:12:56.6
about that all the time on this show
heck in a couple moments I’m going to
1:12:56.6
1:13:02.2
plead to you to give me some ideas so I
can fill in that next step but I can’t
1:13:02.2
1:13:06.5
help but think there are some water
treaters out there listening there are
1:13:06.5
1:13:09.5
some individuals out there listening and
they’re thinking I don’t own my own
1:13:09.5
1:13:15.4
company so did I just waste the last few
minutes listening to this episode and I
1:13:15.4
1:13:21.1
don’t think you did I think you learned
a lot more you just might not know where
1:13:21.1
1:13:26.7
to apply it
think about everything we do there’s
1:13:26.7
1:13:34.8
always a next step so are we actively
thinking about what the next step is or
1:13:34.8
1:13:41.7
are we just simply doing what we do day
in and day out and we’re letting the
1:13:41.7
1:13:47.5
next step happen by default folks if we
are not proactively thinking about the
1:13:47.5
1:13:54.7
next step we might not like what
naturally occurs so I think we can all
1:13:54.7
1:14:00.4
take a moment and just think about where
are we going and is that destination
1:14:00.4
1:14:06.4
where we want to end up and it might
just take a little change and might just
1:14:06.4
1:14:12.7
take a small tweak to a habit that we
have what are we doing how is it
1:14:12.7
1:14:18.4
affecting us and where are we going to
end up if we don’t like that we need to
1:14:18.4
1:14:23.9
change something and the good news is we
just realized it we can affect it and we
1:14:23.9
1:14:29.6
can take the destination to wherever we
want to go what I told you is coming I
1:14:29.6
1:14:35.4
am looking for more show ideas people
asked me here in Seattle Washington
1:14:35.4
1:14:41.3
where do I get ideas from this show and
anything that interests me I think is
1:14:41.3
1:14:46.4
good fodder for the show I’ve got some
good ideas from people that came up to
1:14:46.4
1:14:51.2
me here in Seattle Washington you all
know that I try to read a lot so I can
1:14:51.2
1:14:57.4
share that information with you on
Scaling UP! h2o and the truth is I
1:14:57.4
1:15:02.5
I do read books and and I do that I know
how to read but I don’t have time to
1:15:02.5
1:15:09.1
read what I do have time for is to take
advantage of being in the car so I turn
1:15:09.1
1:15:14.1
windshield time into learning time and
when I’m not listening to a podcast I am
1:15:14.1
1:15:20.8
listening to audible there are so many
book titles on audible and now I am able
1:15:20.8
1:15:27.0
to listen to them when I have time to do
so now if you haven’t tried audible I
1:15:27.0
1:15:31.9
really think you will enjoy the service
and I can get you a free book and a free
1:15:31.9
1:15:36.1
month by going to https://scalinguph2o.com/audible
1:15:36.1
1:15:42.5
let me know what you think and
folks you can even change the speed in
1:15:42.5
1:15:48.4
which you listen to the books so there’s
all sorts of tools on our table you can
1:15:48.4
1:15:54.2
make notes on audible you can mark it as
you’re driving even in a safe way so you
1:15:54.2
1:15:59.2
don’t have to worry about taking your
attention off the road they’ve got a car
1:15:59.2
1:16:03.9
app that helps you with that folks
audible is a great service and I know if
1:16:03.9
1:16:10.1
you’re not using it you can use it to
start reading again and as I said it is
1:16:10.1
1:16:15.9
one of the ways that I get information
for the topics on this podcast but the
1:16:15.9
1:16:23.6
number one way I get information for
this podcast is from you so if you have
1:16:23.6
1:16:29.6
not done so heck even if you’ve done so
do it again go to Scaling UP! h2o com
1:16:29.6
1:16:35.8
and send me a request for a show note
just go to the show notes portion on the
1:16:35.8
1:16:42.1
menu fill that in I will get it we’ll
get that on the air or better yet you
1:16:42.1
1:16:47.2
can click on the send a voicemail button
I will get a recording of your voice
1:16:47.2
1:16:53.1
asking your question I will play that on
the air and then we will answer that
1:16:53.1
1:16:59.5
very question
so nation please help me help you make
1:16:59.5
1:17:06.1
this show into your own private learning
studio and I just got to say thank you
1:17:06.1
1:17:13.8
so much for listening and I will talk to
you next week on Scaling UP! h2o
1:17:16.2
1:17:21.4
nation there’s no doubt about it it is
lonely out there but it doesn’t have to
1:17:21.4
1:17:27.5
be there are groups that exist to help
us help each other get to where we need
1:17:27.5
1:17:33.6
to go faster than we can on our own one
of those groups is the rising tide
1:17:33.6
1:17:39.1
mastermind the rising tide mastermind is
a group where we come together each and
1:17:39.1
1:17:44.5
every week to make sure we’re holding
each other accountable to make it to the
1:17:44.5
1:17:49.7
next level we also read books together
we attend a live event together and
1:17:49.7
1:17:55.6
members enjoy quarterly one-to-ones
with me to find out if the rising tide
1:17:55.6
1:18:01.2
master mind is right for you go to
1:18:01.2
1:18:05.2
to learn more