140 Transcript

140 – The One That Helps Us Reopen Building Water Systems

Transcript Disclaimer: This Transcript is provided and copied from YouTube, grammar and mistakes are present.

stay on up nation when was the last time

you thought about your insurance

coverage for me it is not very often but

I know for a fact that you sleep soundly

at night knowing that you have it that

means it’s important and that means you

need to understand what it is that you

have it means you need to understand

where your liability is and you need

someone that you can trust to have that

conversation with several years ago

I met Mike Higham at an AWT convention

of McGowan Insurance Group and at the

time I had our insurance through a local

broker who is an extremely nice guy and

we had had our auto policies with him

for years and when I started my company

I naturally called him and he got us

coverage the thing is he did not

understand the water treatment industry

so he was giving us the best coverage he

knew to get us without understanding the

industry I had a conversation with Mike

at that convention and he asked some

very good questions questions that I

didn’t have the answers to and I’m sure

glad he asked those questions because

folks I did not know to ask them but as

soon as he asked them I knew that I did

not have all the coverages that I need

think of all the coverages out there

property general liability professional

liability workers compensation employee

Practices Liability folks there’s even

insurance for cyber a liability and I

have to tell you I did not know to ask

about that one but Mike did because this

is what he does he serves the water

treatment industry and he knows that

there is a potential liability because

of the remote access that we do with our

controllers not only did he get me the

right coverage with the right company he

was able to give me advice on making

sure that we

proper policies in effect to make sure

that we were protecting ourselves and

our customers a lot of insurers can only

write through one insurance carrier

McGowan Insurance Group represents

dozens of carriers like Donegal

insurance and when we go to renew I

can’t tell you how awesome it is that

they are able to look at multiple

suppliers to make sure that we’re

getting the best coverage but we’re also

getting the best value I know without a

doubt because McGowan Insurance Group

understands the water treatment industry

that we are getting that each and every

time we renew with them they do

liability benefits bonds they are a full

service agency give the fine folks at

McGowan Insurance Group a call today and

tell them that trace ascent you or visit

them on the web at mcg OWA in I NS GRP


welcome to scaling up h2o the podcast

where we’re scaling up on our knowledge

so we don’t scale up our systems

hello scaled up nation Trace Blackmore

here the host for scaling up h2o and

today’s show is special because I wasn’t

going to air it and then I had some

questions so from some customers and I

had some questions from some fellow

water treaters and I thought what a

great opportunity to bring something

that we did on the rising tide master

mind to the scaling up nation now I

think you know way back when the

pandemic first started I did not feel

good about things I felt very hopeless

and decisions were being made for me and

I felt like I couldn’t do anything at

first anyway well then I started

learning everything I could about what

an employer could do during a pandemic

of course there’s no books about that

it’s just getting information where that

information is and of course now it’s a

lot easier to find but in the beginning

it wasn’t so I used a lot of colleagues

that counseled me I read everything I

could I stayed up to date on the CDC

website and it was during that point

that people started asking me what am i

doing so the company could continue

servicing our critical systems and

that’s kind of when it hit me I wanted

to be known during the pandemic for

somebody that was helping other people

for those of you that know who mr.

Rogers is and I know I’m probably dating

myself with that but he was he was a

children’s show host on PBS and I

remember just about every day I would

watch him and he would go to the land of

make-believe and there’s a movie about

him so hopefully the the people that

have never seen mr. Rogers have maybe

seen the movie so they know what I’m

talking about

but I remember an interview with Fred

Rogers and he was talking about when he

was a child and he would get scared when

he would see something happen on the

news like an explosion gunfire something

like that and as a little boy he would

get scared and his mom would tell him

look for all the helpers meaning when

something happened there were always

people in there that were helping the

people that were affected and I tell you

that really meant something to me

because there’s those of us that don’t

really help and there’s some of us that

that do help and not that not that one

is better than another cuz I’m sure

everybody has their reasons for doing

what they do but I wanted to be one of

those helpers so with that I started a

weekly webinar series with the

mastermind group the rising tide

mastermind that’s a group of people we

get together every week we talk about

issues that we all have but folks I

gotta tell you we really talked about

this pandemic we talk about what each

other was doing how we could help each

other and then we talked about what I

needed to do as the facilitator to bring

experts on to help educate the people

within the mastermind on how we get

through this pandemic so every week I

had a speaker come on and we talked

about different topics we talked about

insurance risk we’ve had Mike Higham of

McGowan Insurance Group who came on

we’ve had a good friend of mine Austin

cause II talk about how we maintain good

mental health within the pandemic and

also for those of us that have team

members that work with us how to help

them maintain good mental health

we had a CFO Mike Iverson come on of

Trillium Financial and he helped us

understand what was in the cares Act and

for those who applied for the PPP loans

what they needed to know

my business coach Tim Fulton came on to

talk about five ways to effectively

manage your business during this crisis

we had sales expert Adam Shapiro come on

to help us understand how to do sales in

a pandemic we had another CFO Adam lien

come on to talk about what metrics we

should be looking at not only during the

pandemic but also all the time and we

quoted Fred Drucker things that get

measured simply get better because

you’re looking at them communication

crisis expert Cindy Miller came on to

help us craft our messages that we were

giving to our clients HR expert Helene

Grossman came on to talk about HR issues

that we need to talk about during the

pandemic I did a webinar on zoom or

virtual meeting etiquette and what I’m

going to share with you today is one of

those webinars and just like all of

these webinars they came from somebody

asking I need more information about

this and we got them more information

about that with the mastermind well one

of the questions was we have customers

that have shut their buildings down and

now they’re getting back online what do

we need to know about it how do we talk

to the customers about it how do we get

them good information so I reached out

to my friend dr. Janet stout of special

pathogens laboratory and she did a

webinar for us by the way all of those

webinars if you go to our show notes

page scaling-up

h2o comm and then you go to /a Ovid 19

you can also navigate there by going to

our resources page on the website and

then going to the proactive webinar

series you can see all of those so what

I’m going to do today I’m going to play

for you dr. stouts interview with me and

it’s my hope that you can use this and

to get yourself more information so you

can have better conversations with your

clients and I also hope that you take

every opportunity to look for more

information out there so I mentioned

before that one of my goals is to be

prepared by loading up information I

told you I want it to be a helper of

other people well in order to do that I

had to load up on information so I hope

you look at some of the webinars that we

post it on the show notes page or on the


but I do think you will enjoy this

episode with dr. Janet Stout so let’s

listen today’s webinar is brought to you

by the rising tide mastermind the rising

tide mastermind is made up of a group of

individuals that get together regularly

to help each other solve our issues but

mostly to help each other get further

faster in all areas of life whether our

group or another group is the right

group for you I think now more than ever

everybody needs a group of trusted

advisors the rising tide mastermind is

putting on this proactive webinar series

so we can focus on the things we can do

and not simply worry about the things

that we cannot our presenter today is

dr. Janet spell of special pathogens

laboratory Janet’s been a great friend

of the podcast scaling up h2o she shared

some great information with us numerous

occasions on Legionella risk and

awareness today Janet’s going to help us

understand best practices when we start

up water systems that have been dormant

for an extended amount of time welcome

Janet no thank you trace and thank you

for the opportunity to be with your

scale of h2o nation it’s a wonderful day

and it’s actually a sunny day in

Pittsburgh so lots to celebrate today so

Janet the question came up within the

rising tide mastermind a lot of us are

dealing with systems that have just been

dormant for

maybe well over a month and people are

thinking we’ve got to get back to work

we’ve got to get people in these

buildings and they’re not thinking about

all the things that have happened while

the water has been stagnated of course

us water traders that’s all we think

about so we appreciate your help today

with helping us understand really what

that issue entails and what are some

best practices around that well it’s

gonna be fun actually it’s always fun

when you come to visit so I think what

I’m really asking you listeners to do is

kind of you know get into the shoes of

the microbes in the water a little bit

and that’ll make a little bit more sense

as we kind of go through it and so I’m

talking to you today about the risk of

Legionnaires disease in building water

systems after this unprecedented

shutdown and and as most of your

listeners know I’m an infectious disease

microbiologist and I’m president of

special pathogens laboratory where were

more than a lab we help and support

water treaters all over the United

States and others dealing with Legion L

& waterborne pathogens but the other

thing that really I’d like to share is

the other hat that I wear which is as a

researcher with my affiliation at the

University of Pittsburgh with civil

environmental engineering so that’s the

perspective that I bring to the problem

that your listeners are challenged with

and you know sort of speaking of

challenges yeah like a huge speed bump

for all of our businesses and the

businesses of our clients that really

kind of slow us down in managing this

situation you know we really have to

keep going right even with the

restrictions and you know here I am with

my my my mask on which I encourage

everyone although we are not wearing

masks now because we are alone in our

conference rooms you know please

practice all that safe distancing and

please wear wear the masks and and so

I’m here today to really talk to you

about some of the issues that make it

safer unsafe

with regard to reopening and the you

know this is really affecting pretty

much any kind of building that you can

think of commercial office buildings

certainly hospitals long-term care

senior retirement communities hotels

even casinos you know when he’s when he

starts sort of ticking through the types

of buildings you just go yes yes yes yes

yes and then a touch upon these four

sort of conceptual steps when it comes

to reopening safely and you know most of

you are all familiar with water

management plans but sometimes this

piece of the water management it’s

missed you know so we want to talk about

including these low flow conditions and

changes in occupancy and your water

management plans and what is the role of

testing for Legionella in you know

before you open after you open a party

you know kind of your ongoing

maintenance you want to be prepared and

I love that at the beginning you talked

about being proactive and that’s been

part of my vocabulary for many many

decades you want to be proactive and

respond to the challenge you don’t want

to be reactive and have react under

pressure and having a plan for

disinfection is all part of that and

then I always want to emphasize doesn’t

matter what the situation is document

document document and and the meaning of

that is in part the little lawyer that

always sits on my shoulder but also when

you have water management that’s a key

part of what documentation is so we’re

going to kind of get to you know what

does it mean to be in the shoes of a

microbe why do my friends like a shot

and what have we learned that can be

applied to this situation

so while us humans are experiencing


you know just go to the grocery store

and try to find toilet paper or paper

towels right the bacteria have

everything they’d be in abundance in

these building water systems that have

been shut down so what I say is there’s

a party in the heights you know these

bacteria are loving

in there under these conditions and so

we’ve got the little bacteria in the

pipe there and the party hats and I want

you to think a little bit about who’s at

the party right so this is a partial

list of bacteria that are present and

growing and abundance in those pipes and

water systems that have been shut down

you know some of these I’d love to say

Pseudomonas aeruginosa as the native

actor species or cold area my favorite

next Allegiant alum course is

stenotrophomonas mouth of Philly I love

I love to say instead of easy for you to

say yeah well yeah but it rolls off the

tongue of a microbiologist I guess we

could say and then other organisms like

non-tuberculous mycobacteria but the big

one is that of course Legionella and the

one that for the most part causes the

most concern in terms of human infection

risk your folks that are treating things

like hot tubs and whirlpool spas you

know really need to be worried about

Pseudomonas as well because that’s the

one that causes that folliculitis

problem for them so what happens to

water quality during a shutdown and so I

want you to think of that Tina Turner


what’s Flo got to do what they’ve got to

do with it right okay she said what’s

love got to do with it

so what’s Flo got to do with it so this

is logical but many of your clients are

not kind of putting two and two together

so when there’s stagnant or standing

water whatever disinfectant amount was

in there and generally speaking it’s

pretty low whatever was there has

decreased and then with respect to the

hot water side of a potable water

distribution system you know you may

have still the hot water generation set

at 130 or 140 but it’s not recirculating

so in the distribution the temperature

drops because it’s just sitting there

it’s not recirculating anymore and no

one’s using it similarly with cold water

the cold waters not flowing so it’s not

going to be cold because it’s ray

the temperature of that cold water is

going to whatever ambient temperature

there is in those unoccupied floors and

buildings and rooms and most of your

viewers know that the growth range for

Legionella is fairly wide ideal

temperatures near body temperature of

course but the point here is that the

temperature of both the hot water in a

potable water system in the cold water

gets into a growth range that many

bacteria like and will grow in abundance

right so that’s what’s happening in

those water systems and what I wanted to

do is I wanted to give you you know like

a visual depiction of this because it’s

sort of a theoretical thing and so what

is that the stagnant water in also

increases the time or the water age and

so Legionella in this water likes to

hang out with other bacteria right so

that’s called synergy they sort of do

better together as you know compared to

a part of these rapidly growing bacteria

help Legionella to grow and so here’s

the example that I wanted to give you so

imagine this base as the pipe and

imagine in the flowers is the organic

you know material sediment and dirt

that’s normally in pipe well this

example I actually did this experiment

so the water was flowing into the base

and overflowing over a three to four day


well if there’s no water flowing this is

what that water looks like and then we

get a little closer and it really is

looking pretty nasty now you all have

seen this but you’ve never kind of

connected it to that’s what’s going on

inside the pipes and water systems of

the building that just sitting this

experiment shows you that bacteria if

they’re given a nutrient source and

stagnant ambient temperature water what

can happen under those conditions and so

it’s pretty pretty nasty now the can

action here and that synergy with

Legionella is what I want to show you

next so the experiment that we did and

this was back in my early days as a

young microbiologist is what we did was

equally janela in the agar plate and we

left out the essential ingredient for

Legionella to grow in that buffered

charcoal yeast extract auger which is an

amino acid system so it wouldn’t grow on

its own but if we put on top of it this

other bacterium

it secretes into the agar a nutrient

that Legionella needs to grow so you can

see that only the Legionella colonies in

that medium are only present very close

to that other bacteria so that’s the

concept that these other bacteria

growing in abundance are producing

nutrients that help Legionella to grow

as well and Legionella certainly is

growing there too well there are other

microbes most of you are aware of this

in all of the water systems that we use

and that’s a unicellular organism called

amoeba so in a no flow or low flow

situation you know the amoeba is sort of

grazing the law and then they go oh

here’s some bacteria I’m going to eat

them up well that’s what happens in a

low flow condition it’s more likely that

those of you are going to come in

contact with Legionella and then when it

does eat Legionella it thinks it’s just

having another bacterial hamburger so to

speak a meal but Legionella grows inside

instead of being destroyed and that’s

depicted in this video from the center

biofilm engineering where Legionella

that’s spinning you know kind of

activity inside there that’s the amoeba

and Legionella inside and at about one

o’clock on the spinning growing

intracellular organisms of Legionella

and that one o’clock on the cell is

where bursts open you see there and all

of the Legionella that had multiplied

into the

hundreds are now spewed out into the

water distribution system so that helps

you understand just not only the

relationship of Legionella with other

bacteria that are growing and funded lee

in water but also amoeba or protozoa

that are in that water so we want to

talk also about other changes that occur

in these stagnant water systems and

particularly when they are repressurized

so they’ve been laying there dormant you

know whatever is going on with the scale

and material that’s inside the pipe all

of a sudden changes because of refresh

or zation so this is sort of one of the

visual pictures I want you to have in

mind and then the other is this one

where you see all the scale and material

that’s on the sides of the pipe and then

in a dormant situation some of that

comes off and then when re

pressurization occurs you get brown

water events and I just want to also

tell you that it’s not just when you see

brown water you know that’s sort of the

most extreme situation but even we know

that even in a glass of water that looks

clear there’s bacteria there as well so

the this association with Legionella

growth and spread and changes in water

quality and delayed occupancy it was

first noted by a infectious disease

physician named Leonard Rimmel and he’s

at Rhode Island Hospital and he

published this paper in 1995 and the

water quality changes that he was

reporting were associated with

construction and each time those water

quality changes occurred there were

outbreaks of Legionnaires disease so the

analogy is you know we have an analogous

situation here with these dormant

unopened water systems and these were

his recommendations in that 1995 paper

culture the water system before during

and after these shutdowns and

repressurization of the water supply

culture for Legionella should be carried

out especially if any of those areas are

used by people that would be in

high-risk so of the buildings that we

noted before you know you know every

time I walk through a casino it’s like

there’s old people with oxygen and

smoking you know that’s a high-risk

group senior retirement communities for

sure also hospitals of course have

immunocompromised people so we have lots

of people that can be at risk of

Legionella in these building water

systems and in terms of when to sample

for Legionella in a in a situation where

there’s a shutdown you want to sample

two to three weeks prior to occupancy

and this actually is also true with

construction and that two to three week

period of time allows the the culture

results to come back discussion to be

had with you and your client and perhaps

even their water management team and

then an action to occur in response to

those results and so if they’re negative

on you go nope no problem but if they’re

positive then you’d have an opportunity

to orchestrate a disinfection procedure

if that’s necessary and then he also

went on to say you know certainly if

there’s any discolored colorization of

the water brown water events should be

reported obviously to maintenance

personnel and you should be aware and

let your clients know what does that

brown water me because I don’t think

they would put two and two together that

it means there’s potential there for

increased risk of Legionella so you know

what we’re really all about here is

preventing Legionnaires disease and so

know the risk when you see it don’t

ignore it so I think for your viewers if

you are building operators and managers

this webinar helps you understand where

the risk is and what you need to be

doing about that risk and if you’re the

water treatment professional then it

behooves you to help educate your

clients about those risks so that you

can help them avoid those cases of

Legionnaires disease after reopening so

there’s lots of resources for water

management and and guidance for shutdown

and startup procedures whether it’s a

potable water system a cooling tower

ice machines all of that is out there

for you to access and so lots and lots

of material out there the 2000 national

a guideline New York City and New York

State have guidance for cooling towers

and health care facilities the ASHRAE

standard 188 certainly the AWT 2019 a

guidance document the newly minted

cooling technologies to guideline 159 if

it’s a health care facility you know you

want to make sure that your clients are

aware that there’s requirements for a

risk assessment and water management for

health care facilities and then just

published this month the ASHRAE

guideline Update now called 2020 so all

of these are available to you to help

you with the details and we are not

together long enough to go through all

of that today but I will touch upon a

couple of things and a couple of these

documents and certainly ASHRAE standard

188 is really the industry standard in

terms of water management risk

assessment water safety plans but we

really want to focus on risk mitigation

and decontamination which are touched

upon in the ASHRAE standard but you know

you’ve probably heard people talk about

this standard it doesn’t it tells you

what to do it’s a pretty high level

guidance document in terms of a standard

not necessarily what to do and there’s

more information on the what how in the

ASHRAE guideline of 2020 and so I said

it was newly minted May 1st it became

available for purchase so you can go to

the ASHRAE bookstore and by managing the

risk of legionellosis associated with

building water systems and and some good

bedtime reading for you and then also

I’d say some very good bedtime reading

is is the Cooley Technology Institute

guideline 159 i sat on both of these

committees legionellosis guideline

practices to reduce the risk of

legionellosis from evaporative heat

projection equipments and the guideline

159 is a lot of detail and is very

specific to cooling tower operation of

maintenance so lots of great information

on start-up and shutdown of cooling

towers in the CTI guideline 159 things I

like it by-god language a nine it’s

really performance-based approach and it

emphasizes microbial control as part of

an effective water management program to

control the risk for Legionnaires


what about controlling so you’ve gone

through this process you’ve cultured for

Legionella and maybe you finally janela

has had a party in your pipes you know

what do you do and typically it’s shock

disinfection the one thing I want to

tell people and they want to do flushing

and there’s nothing wrong with flushing

the outlets meaning moving fresh water

through the building at a periodic pace

but I want to say it’s not disinfection

so it may increase overall water hygiene

but it doesn’t disinfect or remove

Legionella from the water distribution

system so you may temporarily reduce

Legionella at that fixture but

Legionella is throughout the water

distribution system it’s there it’s

within and throughout so don’t kid

yourself that you’ve controlled

Legionella risk by just flushing the

water so flushing alone does not

eliminate that risk so when do you

consider disinfection and what are is

the guidance there and so in the

guideline 2020 there’s two

recommendations here about when to

consider disinfection that I thought was


so here’s in Section five point three

point to consider disinfection where

facilities where hot and cold water

temperatures that are recommended for

Legionella control can’t be maintained

through the entire system hmm that

applies to shut down doesn’t it and then

facilities where there’s not a

consistent measureable disinfectant

residual in all hot and cold water taps

well first of all you’re almost never

going to have a residual of the

disinfectant that comes into your

building in your hot water because it

dissipates with heat but you know people

think that if we’ve got a disinfectant

residual at the cold water tab

we’re good and most of you know that the

amount of chlorine or monochloramine

that comes into the building is pretty

low by the time it gets there and

there’s you know not much of a

requirement in terms of code or

regulatory requirement for in that

residual to be very high so the point I

want to make by these two things that

are in Section five point three point

two in the ASHRAE 2020 guideline is this

describes a shutdown situation you know

where there’s low or no flow so you want

to consider disinfection now I mentioned

to you that we can’t kind of go through

all that we want to touch upon today in

terms of specific guidance but I didn’t

want to leave you lacking and so what

we’ve done here in special pathogens

laboratories we’ve written a white paper

which we will deliver to you

electronically all right that talks

about operation of potable water systems

during this low occupancy or low flow

situation if specific guidance about

reopening the buildings after the

shutdown help you it also helps you to

address specific things that need to be

in the water safety management program

and plan and to address the shutdown

when and where to test because this is

not routine circumstances by any stretch

of the imagination and with regard to

sampling for Legionella this is a

special circumstance so what you might

be doing in terms of sampling for

Legionella on a routine basis whether

it’s a cooling tower or a potable water

system this is different and so you need

a special sampling plan specific for

this circumstance you you know some some

details in the white paper about

disinfection as a corrective action and

that’s the vernacular for water

management safety plans and then some

highlights on documentation you know you

want to make sure that whatever you’re

doing you document thoroughly not only

for your protection but also protection

of the building owner you know because

part of this is really exercising due

diligence and early on in our talk here

I talked about the little lawyer on my

shoulder which is always there kind of

whispering in my ear for the benefit of

our clients you know you may

be called upon to produce some evidence

of why you’ve done you’ve done how

effective it is and that you’ve done it

properly and what I also tell people is

that these disinfection shock treatments

for example with chlorine are not simple

exercises they’re extremely complicated

lots of documentation that’s needed to

document tag out a fixtures a measured

concentration of disinfectant at each

fixture so there’s a lot to it and I

think it’s important for your clients

and for you to understand the complexity

of that no simple task so in terms of

the road that we’re on in preventing

building associated Legionnaires disease

you know this says are we there yet are

we there yet we there yet we have come a

long way and what I usually say is you

know my experience over many many

decades now of preventing Legionnaires

disease in building water systems I like

to say I’m not old I’m experienced and

someday you can you’ll get to that point

Trace and you’ll be able to use that

phrase I just had a birthday I don’t

feel that I’m far from it now you’re

only as old as you that’s right that’s

right and so we’ll be forever young but

you know I think I have an optimistic

and most of you the know mean on the

glass half-full person and there’s lots

to be hopeful about in terms of our

ability to correctly generis disease and

one of the things that gives me hope is

that we’re talking about it as we have

come out of these buildings shut down so

that means to me that the risk of

legionellosis associated with shut down

buildings and low occupancy is better

understood today than ever before we’ve

got lots of outbreaks that have occurred

after construction shutdowns that help

us understand that this is a real risk

and then the other thing that gives me

hope is this publication that just came

out last month and this is the assc

professional qualification standard for


safety and management personnel and you

can buy this from a SSC now and what it

is is it’s really important to set a

minimum standard for knowledge about

Legionella for people that are doing

Legionella water management service

services and so this sets a minimum

criteria for those folks and provides a

certification so what that means is you

have the standard asse and i atmo will

have a training and a tensley and you

will be certified as having that basic

knowledge so this will go a long way to

providing that sort of baseline help in

educating people about Legionella

prevention so I’m very very excited

about that and of course the key to

prevention of Legionnaires disease as we

say here at special pathogens

laboratories you must test to protect

there is no way to know about Legionella

risk indirectly you know you can’t use

heterotrimeric clanking out you can’t

use pH you can’t use pouring levels or

temperature unless you were running your

system at 150 degrees which none of them

do so you really have to test for

Legionella I’m just really excited to be

working together to end Legionnaires

disease and that’s really the only way

we can do it is together so thank you so

much and of course stay safe and thank

you so much for listening to my

presentation well Janet thank you so

much for sharing that I know we’ve

helped a lot of people you’ve given us a

lot of great advice but a couple of

questions have popped up since you’ve

been talking and one is in a perfect

world of course we would test at least

two weeks prior to a building opening up

we’re all working with building owners

and managers that have not been into

their buildings for several weeks the

owners are now pushing the managers to

get occupancy up and going and they’re

thinking about things on how they’re

going to keep people out of their

conference room or to people only in an

elevator and they’re just not thinking

about their water systems what is your

recommendation on how somebody like


can get them to start thinking about

that when they have so many other things

on their plate that they think are more

urgent so this is what I think about and

I talked about this in our last

newsletter as you know Co bid is bad

enough you know Kovan affects countries

legionella affects you affects your

staff your employees your clients that

come into your building and then if

there’s a Legionnaire problem it will

compound your economic recovery you know

it’s incumbent upon us and my mother

used to say this know you’re in history

right and the history teaches us that if

you ignore the risk of Legionella in an

unoccupied space you may pay a very very

big price so we you can share with them

you know these outbreaks that have

occurred out there whether it’s a

shutdown of cooling tower

it’s a shutdown of a hotel or healthcare

we know what can happen and the best way

to prepare and to avoid bad outcomes is

to do things proactively as you said at

the beginning so that you know whether

there’s a problem nobody that runs a

building doesn’t want to know that

there’s a problem with their mechanicals

they don’t want to start up a cooling

foam I hope not that maybe you can tell

me differently but you know you don’t

want to start up a cooling tower and the

fan isn’t working or there’s it’s bent

or broken you know so the analogy is the

same you don’t want to start up a water

system without really doing some due

diligence in terms of maintenance start

up and then check to make sure that what

you’ve done is effective in mitigating

the risk of Legionnaires disease so

that’s the reason that you want to do it

is you want to have peace of mind you

want to avoid what can be disastrous and

maybe maybe talking about the costs of

outbreaks even

case you know the health department

comms shuts you down you know water

restrictions hyper chlorination events

the dollars escalate to hundreds of

thousands of dollars in a few weeks and

so this is a movie that I’ve seen many

many times and it’s not like guardians

of the galaxy like I want to watch that

over and over again it’s a movie I don’t

want to see over and over again and so

those are the things that you can

communicate and you you might even think

about you know some water treaters you

know sort of provide a document to the

people that says you know I’ve talked to

you about Legionella testing and and

educated you about it and then you sign

you’ve acknowledged that I’ve talked

with you about it because you it’s two

things you’re protecting yourselves and

your clients right so you know if

something bad happens you know you’re

gonna get blamed and you’re gonna be

dragged into court and I know about that

because I’ve helped many of the large

readers like that get into that

situation not because they’ve done

something wrong but because everybody

gets sued when there’s a lawsuit now you

have to defend yourself so if you’ve got

some documentation you know that proves

that you’ve done some counseling about

this risk and and what your

recommendations are that will protect

you and it also makes that person take

pause they’re like no I’m I’m

responsible for this and you’re

reminding me that I’m responsible for

this and now I feel a little

uncomfortable saying no and you’re just

doing it for their own good

and you can say that you know I you know

this is often an uncomfortable

conversation but I my job is to look out

for you and this is what needs to happen

in order for you to be safest and the

people in your building to be safe well

let’s say we’ve done all that or maybe

they’ve started up the building before

we’ve had a chance to talk to them and

now we’ve got a stagnating system that’s

gone back online what do you advise we

do with that well you still need to know

whether the risk is there right so you

can always take some corrective action

so now you’re maybe

saying okay in in again the vernacular

of water safety management when there is

a change the plan tells you to talk

about what that change means and what

should we do to make sure that the

system is safe and part of that is

obviously testing for Legionella so so

you okay well all right we’re up and

going let’s make sure the cooling tower

now that’s up and going and it’s got its

normal concentration and biocide that

Legionella is under control check

decorative water features test them

check and certainly your hot water

distribution system check so this is

part of good water management / ASHRAE

188 for general buildings and then CMS

and CDC for health care so when we’re

looking at testing a stagnated system

what are the best places to test since

the waters not circulating well it’s not

that much different than your what we

would recommend for routine monitoring

with the exception that you know it’s

under these circumstances so cooling

towers we always recommend every cell if

it’s a multi cell operation be tested

even though you know you might be only

using one of the cells you want to know

is the disinfectant being distributed to

the other cells is there risk there you

know because we’ve seen that movie

before and then in water distribution

systems you would pick representative

locations you’re sampling the hot water

immediate draw the ice machines and

things like that that may have been

offline and brought back online

you’re usually checking those and then

of course you know water features for

example if it’s a casino they have lots

of those you want to make sure that

those are checked off as having been

checked for Legionella which any you’ve

mentioned the little lawyer on your

shoulder numerous times I’m curious does

he or she have a name I’d be happy to

take suggestions there we go those

directly I can’t tell you that they’re

very well dressed of course of course

yeah thank you so much for sharing this

information I know you’re gonna join the

mastermind group in just a few days

where they’re gonna ask their questions

directly to you you’re doing so much to

educate the community on Legionella and

things that we can do so people don’t

have to suffer at Legionnaires disease

so thanks for all of that and thanks for

everything that you do for us water

treaters no thank you and it’s just

great to be with you and thanks for the

opportunity to trace and especially

great to be with you because you made my

day a sunny day just because thank you

so much scale donation I hope you got

some great information from that

interview with dr. stout and here is the

cold hard fact the country is starting

to open up I know that’s become a

political issue on one side or another

well folks we’re water treaters we need

to put the political stuff aside and we

need to realize that we need to get out

there and help our customers make better

decisions so I think loaded with the

information that you just heard from my

interview with Janet style you can have

some good clear conversations with your

customers now they’re not thinking about

a lot of these things they’re just

thinking they’ve got to get their

buildings up and running they’ve got to

get their facilities up and running

they’re not thinking about what is in

their pipes it’s up to you to help them

think that way and give them some

potential solutions so they’re not

negligent and just simply flipping the

switch and bringing people back in

sedation next week we’re going to hear

from my friend Mark Lewis CWT we’re

actually supposed to hear from mark

Lewis today but I know we all needed the

information on getting our buildings

back up and running so that’s why Janet

stout snuck in here to our productions

schedule folks I would love it if you

could share this information with as

many water treaters as you know and any

of those webinars that I mentioned at

the top end of the show that you would

help you please go to scaling up h2o

comm go to resources and then go to the

proactive webinar series and you know

share those webinars with whoever you

like watch those webinars it’s my hope

that during this entire time we look at

what we can affect we look at being

proactive hence the name the proactive

webinar series because the human body

the human mind doesn’t easily go there

we have to force ourselves to see what

we’re in control of I think by default

we just think about what we don’t have

control of and folks that is a spiral

down to not being very productive at

anything so folks please help yourselves

to all this information if this sounds

good to you this all came from the

rising tide mastermind so if you would

like to join the rising tide mastermind

or at least just find out what it is you

can go to scaling up h2o com forward

slash mastermind and I got to tell you I

would not be in the position that I am

right now

had I not have been a member of the

rising tide mastermind the the people in

the rising tide mastermind really pushed

me to find new information to share that

with them and because of that my company

myself got a lot of great information

out of that that we were able to share

heck we were able to use it folks please

take care of each other out there and I

will come with another brand new episode

next week with a Marc Lewis episode that

was supposed to air today and I will

talk to you later how the great week