168 Transcript

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the world’s leading manufacturer and
innovator of water treatment controllers
and metering pumps has just released
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walchem to find out more walchem turning
real water treatment problems into
solutions for you
and your customers
welcome to scaling up h2o the podcast
where we scale up on knowledge so we
don’t scale up
our systems my name is trace blackmore i
get the privilege of
hosting this podcast i get a lot of
privileges with this podcast
we hosted an after hours hang during the
awt convention that i’m going to tell
you a little bit about
because we’re going to do that again but
that’s going to be at the end of the
but i of course get the privilege of
hosting that
as well so so many awesome things
because of this podcast i hope you feel
the same way i hope
you get great information from scaling
up h2o
i hope you feel connected with other
members of the scaling up nation
so you know that you are in a job
of other water treaters that are doing
the same thing that you’re doing so you
feel connected and with things like the
i’m hoping to give you opportunities
so you can meet some of those other
water treaters well today’s show is
airing on friday the 13th
and a lot of us have heard that there is
a superstition about
friday the 13th and several of you might
remember episode
103 that aired on another friday the
i did what water treaters fear so if you
haven’t listened to that or if you
haven’t listened to it in a while maybe
you want to get into the scary water
mood two weeks ago i read edgar allan
poes the raven
on the air that was episode number 167
so all of these things about fear about
friday the 13th
and i thought i’d talk a little bit
about that so
there’s a word out there called uh
which is fear of the number 13.
so hammurabi’s code actually had number
13 omitted from it i’m
sure that you have been in a building
where the floors on the elevator go 10
12 14 for that superstition
and then of course there’s friday
there’s some boat captains that will not
leave on a friday i love the show
on the discovery channel deadliest catch
and if you guys remember
captain phil he would never leave on a
friday he would reschedule
so he was not leaving on a friday
modern day friday the 13th references
can be traced
back to 1907
from a book called friday the 13th
written by a gentleman named thomas
now he had written in his book that a
stock broker did several things to
create a crash in the stock market on
friday the 13th and exactly one
year later the bank panic of 1907
happened now of course all of us
listeners we probably don’t remember
that but maybe we’ve read about it
that is when depositors just did not
believe in the banks
and they wanted to take all their money
out of the banks and of course the
financial economy just
collapsed there and they did some things
to build confidence back up
but the new york times credits friday
the 13th and that
book for being one of the causes so
the new york times has been credited
with being the first
media outlet to really bring friday the
into modern day because of that book
because of that bank crash
and then of course who can forget friday
the 13th
the horror series of course that is what
has brought friday the 13th
into pop culture we all think of jason
voorhees so whatever your connection is
friday the 13th are you scared does
friday the 13th worry you
would you plan to do something on
saturday because
the friday might fall on a 13th
i don’t know i tell you i don’t think
i’ve ever done that and i really don’t
give much
thought about it i did think that that
would be an
interesting thing to talk about on the
where that comes from you know i truly
believe the more prepared you are
the luckier you are and i don’t believe
in a lot of superstition i don’t think i
in any superstition i like to have fun
with it
but the more you prepare the more
you begin with the end in mind and you
think about
all of the various steps that you have
to do in order
to get to that end and you prepare for
the more likely you’re going to create
your own luck and i definitely think
that that is true
when it comes to water treatment think
about when you’re servicing if you
just get in your vehicle and you start
nine times out of ten there’s going to
be something
that you possess that you do not have
with you that you’re going to wish you
had because it would have solved the
but if you didn’t think it through on
the top end you didn’t think to bring it
with you
and now you’ve got to go back so
i truly believe the more prepared you
the luckier that you are during a
that definitely means that you’re going
to have more of the correct repair parts
but it also means that you’re going to
be thinking about the equipment
that you’re servicing and when it comes
to equipment we’ve got different sides
of equipment we’ve got
equipment that we are treating that our
water is running through
that we have to make sure that we
understand that our customer
is relying on us to treat properly but
then we also have the equipment
that feeds our control program
and we’ve got controllers we’ve got
pumps we’ve got valves
we’ve got all of these other things that
allow us to do
what we do so we can properly treat our
customers equipment
well today we’re going to talk about
something that i’m sure you probably
haven’t thought about in a very long
time you just hook it up
you set it and you forget it and if
nothing goes wrong with it you probably
don’t give it a
second thought well today we are going
to bring that guy
out into the spotlight what am i talking
about i’m talking about
our product feed pumps we’re going to
give our feed pumps some
air time today and with the help
of jared gable of grundfast we’re going
to talk
all things pumps
my lab partner today is jared gable of
grundfast how are you jared
i’m doing very well thank you very much
trace well thank you for coming on
scaling up h2o and i think if there’s
undertold story it’s the story of the
chemical feed pump and we’re going to
set that straight today
that’s right so before we do do you mind
telling the scaling up nation a little
bit about yourself
sure my pleasure so i went to uh school
at ku
and uh coming into to school there i was
uh engineering major so
you know growing up as a kid i’m
interested in how things work
that took me into my first career as a
actually an environmental engineer
working for the state of missouri
that’s really where i got my first
education on what a
chemical metering pump really was and so
in the world of water treatment
and then i gravitated left from there to
work for grunt foss in in multiple roles
from application
engineering to product management and
now i’m in a market development role
uh in the water treatment industrial
water treatment market the best market
there is
that’s right so tell us a little bit
about grundfos sure
so grundfast is a company that is really
set out to pioneer solutions to the
water and climate challenges so anything
that we do going forward from here is to
improve quality of life for people
and and the way we’re doing that is
really through water and digital
so what we do is we fundamentally aim to
be market leaders with innovative
solutions that
really differentiate us from from others
in the market
and we want to do that by bringing
things quicker faster and simpler
so our developments and pro products
like metering pumps
follows that same that path well let’s
talk about the chemical
metering pump i’m sure there’s a lot of
people that are familiar with that
but if somebody’s just tuning in today
they have no idea what we’re talking
about how would you explain that to them
a metering pump is basically a
a piece of equipment that’s taking
chemical from maybe a drum or a tank
and precisely injecting it into a water
line to treat it for whatever the needs
are of that system whether it’s a
cooling tower
a boiler system for anti-scalence
or you’re a drinking water plant to
inject disinfectants into the line
what we know is that when you over under
feed something like that it can either
be very dangerous to health
or it doesn’t you know treat a process
the way it needs to be done
in industrial applications to satisfy
that need
so a metering pump is something that can
inject chemical very precisely over a
period of time
to satisfy the requirements of any
that’s treating water so how has the
metering pump evolved over the years
i think early on metering pumps were
were pumps that were
maybe not as as accurate so you have
plunger style pumps um
things with tubes so peristaltic and
then also as just your motor driven
or hydraulically actuated and those
still exist today in large part so the
mechanical pieces around it
are still used by several manufacturers
and the way that drive
mechanism works the things that are kind
of coming up in
uh in in the market are more around the
processes how the the pumps work as like
little small computers to
write algorithms and control
microcontrollers to
you know solve processes and and the
within the application
around it what we’re seeing is really
not so much a change in the mechanics of
the pump
but more so in the way the pumps are
actuated with a microcontroller or
algorithms that are developed
within the pumps maybe sensors that are
added to them
to really kind of see us the process in
the system around them and start
it the pump starts diagnosing things in
the system
and can then automatically correct for
uh situations that aren’t
aren’t ideal so that’s really where
we’re seeing a lot of the
the advances come today they’re getting
they’re getting much smarter and we and
that’s one of the things we
i wanted to be able to talk about today
is kind of like what i see
going on and what we’re doing is
grundfos to to
to allow others to take advantage of
that intelligent technology
all right and we will definitely get to
that i want to unpack a few things
in a few terms that you just mentioned
you mentioned
different types of drive mechanisms so
you said peristaltic diaphragm
i believe you said piston what what are
the differences between those why would
you choose one over the other
historically what we’re seeing is either
you’re drawing
chemical into the pump from a suction
application where i’m i have to pull it
up several feet into the
into the dosing head or i could also
have a flooded suction application
there are also chemicals that are
readily off gassing like sodium
um and other acids that want to just
they want to be a gas so
anytime you get air inside of the dosing
head or allow that to happen
then we have this situation that allows
you to
vapor lock the pump so different
different ways to
actuate the pump so whether it’s a
piston a peristaltic or diaphragm will
have certain benefits in in that in that
chemistry that’s being
injected or kind of the physical setup
of the the suction conditions whether
it’s flooded suction or
a suction lift another consideration are
materials of construction
when you order these pumps you can order
them with a multitude
of different heads how do you know which
material to choose for the application
that you’re using
you know this is a probably one of the
number one
questions that we get and when i’m
training new people on
on dosing pumps and how to answer that
question within our company
it really comes down to either the
experience of the person
answering that question so for me i have
confidence saying that
sodium hypochlorite or a chemical like
works really well with pvc dosing heads
or viton elastomers and maybe a ceramic
check ball if it’s a
diaphragm pump but if you don’t know
that there’s also some
great guidance out there in the cole
palmer world so there’s a cole palmer
website it has
a compatibility chart to kind of gives
you some guidance and we always use the
word guidance because
it’s hard to know whether the chemical
that’s being used is a proprietary
chemical with
some blend that we don’t really know
about or if it’s actually something
that’s more standard in the water
treatment world like
bisulfites or hydrochloric acids
parasitic acids things like that
and so we can use the charts that exist
in the chemical compatibility charts
that exist
online for us or in other other areas
we we do provide guidance a lot of the
manufacturers for pumps will provide
like a
a guidance sheet for that but i always
tell people
our customers that it’s really good to
have that conversation
with if you can the chemical supplier
the end user and then
involve us and then the three of us
together we can solve that
that problem because you know most of
the chemical suppliers aren’t
making the equipment to inject the
chemistry and vice versa
so if we all kind of have this open
dialogue and i’ve had it in the past
with with chemical suppliers and it’s a
really good one
and they’re appreciative of you asking
it so we we
actually end up in a way um satisfying a
need for the
the customer and ensuring that when they
actually install this equipment it’s
going to work
properly and that’s what it’s all about
that’s right
yeah i’ll make sure to put that cole
palmer uh compatibility sheet on our
show notes page
i know the one you’re referring to that
is a good one and
yeah i can’t help but think of a story
when uh you know i believe it was a pvc
that we had and we were using a
biocide and they did not play along very
well together
we were doing some field testing for a
and they had just let an employee go
and we all thought that he had come into
the mechanical room and hit these pumps
with a baseball bat
i mean it just shattered all the stuff
of course it was it was bad
materials choices so um yeah you
definitely have to know what you’re
using and what’s
what’s the right materials and they’re
and i can tell you in that case that you
just mentioned i would definitely have
do some more research and digging and i
most likely ask to speak to the chemical
and then i can tell them hey this is
what we make our pumps out of i know
this very clearly
what i don’t know is what all the
attributes are of that chemistry that
you’re using
so we have to work together to solve
that well you specifically brought up
sodium hypochlorite one of my
favorite biocides for treating cooling
and you’re right it is a gasser so
i remember in the early 90s i would
hours trying to prime pumps pumps have
so much better since then what are some
of the things that pumps do
now that make it so we don’t have to
spend an hour priming these things
i’m glad you brought that up one of the
number one reasons why where we see
issues and basically where we have a lot
of success and
helping our our customers overcome that
what you find is that if you
if you remember there’s there’s some
ways to set the feed rate on the pump
and one of them is the frequency of
of strokes so the on a diaphragm pump
there’s a
piston in there that moves back and
forth to give it that reciprocating
and it will uh either speed up or slow
or happen at different frequencies so
most of the conventional type pumps will
have a
suction and discharge phase that happens
and then it waits a while
and then so every time it goes through a
suction and discharge phase
it’s basically pulling in pushing out
and then every time you have a waiting
period if you have to go and inject a
feed rate that’s one way to set that so
i can either control the frequency of
of those pulses or i can in the
conventional dosing world you can
set the the stroke length and so that
really takes it from a com
a full sweepable volume of that
diaphragm through the the dosing head
and cuts it down by a percentage so
usually you can set it to like
50 20 um suction stroke or like a 50 20
uh frequency and then you multiply those
two percentages together and that’s your
feed rate
of the maximum capacity of that pump
so what we’ve noticed is that when you
start injecting a chemical that’s like
sodium hypochlorite and wants to off gas
it basically if you don’t use a 100
sweepable volume or
100 of stroke length you’re basically
taking that
air bubble that gets trapped in there
and just making it bigger and smaller
and bigger and smaller and not actually
moving chemistry
so we’re just taking a a bubble and and
expanding and contracting it
but if you have a pump that’s able to
always use a 100
stroke length then we can push those
bubbles out
and and then there’s a thing that uh
i’ll say it again the sweepable volume
what that is is when the diaphragm moves
from the back
position all the way to the front
position to move out as much of that
volume that’s possible in that dosing
which then clears and mitigates that
issue of vapor locking which if that
happens you have to go and
re-prime the pump is it safe to say if
using a gassing chemistry you really
don’t need to
to set the stroke for anything less than
a hundred percent
um and i yes and i bet that’s really for
the the pumps that we we make at
there’s a we all we’re doing is
controlling the speed now
we adjust the speed and we can do that
independent of the of the stroke setting
so or the
the where the stroke is at in in the
travel so i can
take a suction stroke in very quickly
and then i can push it out very slowly
to then
dial it down through the turndown ratio
or get the sweet spot that i need on my
my feed rate but all the while i’m still
pushing out the chemistry at 100 stroke
a length to get that entire volume
displaced in the dosing head
and that really helps us to keep uh keep
the pump from
vapor locking and requiring multiple
priming frequencies
that’s a great tip i’m sure we’ve helped
a couple of people out there that are
troubleshooting that problem as we speak
you know people will buy the same pump
for just about any product
they have on any system that they have
and of course we need to size those
what advice do you have to make sure
that we’re sizing them properly so if we
x amount of product fed over whatever
length of time
is there a sweet spot that we should say
it should do no less than this
or no more than that how should we be
sizing these pumps
what you really want to do is first
decide what
kind of accuracies there are you know
normally you find a pump that meets
exactly what you need
uh or you build in some factor of safety
if you’re going through a plant
expansion later down the line
so well when we’re asking our customers
what size pump they need we’re asking
for the maximum flow rate that they
could need
just like any other pump and the maximum
discharge pressure
if you look at a centrifugal pump versus
a diaphragm pump or a
dosing pump the curve is much different
i don’t i always kind of laugh when
somebody asks me for the dosing pump
curve because i’m like well that’s
really not going to tell you a whole lot
of information it’s just a square on the
so we’re not trying to meet like a a
duty point
with a fluctuating pressure
it’s just the pump can always pump
whatever that maximum pressure is
regardless of the the feed rate
or the flow rate so i always start there
and then it’s a matter of a question on
compatibility like we just talked about
and one of the other things is how do
you want to control the pump are you
going to be
setting it and forgetting it because
it’s just rocking in at a constant feed
rate and that’s
you’ve got it dialed in with the your
process the water quality never changes
or could it be that there is a need to
adjust based on flow so
most of the time i’m seeing
installations and applications where
the dosing pump is actually flow paced
off of like a main process flow
and so then you have a flow meter that
can send a signal to either directly to
the pump
or through some kind of a plc to to
change that signal and then send a
analog signal onto the pump or pull
so those are three of them the main
things that will get me to
uh basically the ballpark of what what
pump needs to be
used for that’s that application now one
of the things that we’ve done recently
uh created like this uh wizard approach
to selection
so we we ask you certain questions that
are just common like what flow and
pressure do you need
and then also how you want to control it
without really exploiting the fact that
are talking about our specific products
and and you know
proprietary part numbers and and names
of pumps
but more asking the general questions
that uh folks would really know about
their application
so that they don’t have to be experts in
dosing pumps they don’t have to
worry about that piece it’s it’s
something that we’ve tried trying to do
to make this a much easier process in
for folks because i have realized that
there’s a certain level of
demystification that has to happen
when you start talking about metering
pumps and i’m
i’m excited to help when that comes
awesome there are other manufacturers
will have a great outline i believe
20 percent uh on their stroke and
basically they’re saying that
we can’t say for the accuracy anything
below this
is it safe to say that if you’re in that
you probably need to get a smaller pump
yeah i think
when you look at those those types of
pumps that say that then
of course you want to make sure accuracy
is a very key thing because
uh your end users and your customers
that are using these are
really paying for the chemical and the
uh are over time that operating expenses
and the capital expenses just
pay for themselves with the chemistry so
it’s really important to get
a pump that’s very accurate you know
you’re looking at
plus or minus one percent plus or minus
two percent is
generally where you’re going to be
depending on the application
one of the things that we look at though
is that steady state
accuracy so steady state accuracy
basically it’s like where is the
accuracy based on my set point and when
you’re looking at different accuracies
of different manufacturers
key in on the fact that they’re stating
that what do they mean by
their accuracy is it plus or minus one
percent of
the maximum allowable flow rate
or are you talking about accuracy of
the set point that you select because
those are going to differ quite a bit
so that’s one thing to really pay
attention to we have a pump that’s plus
or minus one percent through
every set point so and we’re able to do
that because we incorporate a sensor in
there and it can
really dial in on things that are
fluctuating in the system so
if you’re really key in on accuracy
because you have a
neat chemistry and you have a very
sensitive process then
finding that most accurate pump
throughout the throughout the entire set
point range
that’s allowable with that pump is is a
good idea
when do you need to calibrate a pump and
what is that procedure
well calibration is done once the pump
is installed in the environment where
it’s going to
operate so if i if i were to let’s say
for example
calibrate a pump on my desktop and then
ship it to you
and then you install in a pressure
that’s much different so the back
pressure that i’ve tested against is
different than yours maybe like 20 or 40
psi then the calibration is going to be
all out of whack by the time you get it
install it so install it get the pump
to feel the back pressure that it needs
to pump against and then calibrate it
and what we always say is calibrate it
on the suction sides so that means
do a draw down not fill up into the
calibration column
this ensures that yeah the pump is
moving chemistry and it’s it’s
independent of
of the of the back pressure um
in the system at that point it’s always
what is going through it on the suction
side so you that’s the best way to
calibrate a pump
as far as what goes into it it really
depends on the the manufacturer’s
process one of the things that we do in
our pumps is
we have a calibration setting so it goes
through a series of strokes
and it counts it so up to maybe 100 or
200 strokes depending on the models
and once that’s done you basically read
the draw down level of your calibration
physically and the pump will say i think
you just displaced
100 milliliters and then you read your
calibration column and it says
actually i’ve displaced 120 milliliters
so then
we would just go in and input that value
into the dosing pump
and select okay and then it’s calibrated
it had historically been kind of a
complex process where you had to
multiply the maximum capacity of the
pump you had to
do a bunch of other calculations to get
there the pumps have gotten smarter like
we said earlier
and that is not so much the case anymore
i think it’s worth knowing that
calibration is an easy thing these days
and it’s a it should be a one-time
one-time deal
in the startup or anytime we have a
fluctuating back pressure on the system
it’s a good idea to recalibrate the pump
at that phase
and i will say that again the talking
about smarter technologies
pumps that are able to automatically
adapt to
fluctuating back pressure is is then
even more hands-off when it comes to
calibrating so
you don’t really have to calibrate pumps
that can sense the
system around it and then when you put
in your target feed rate
it’s just going to go to that speed that
it needs to be
based on that pressure that it’s sensing
so i mean
you can you can make it as complex i
guess as you want today or as simple as
you want depending on the technologies
you choose when it comes to calibration
jared what do you think the average life
expectancy is of a metering
pump that that is a good question so
i think depending on the the environment
you’re in
you should you should have a pump that
should last
10 20 years and the reason i say that is
there’s really only a couple things that
you’re you’re managing on this uh you
following the the instructions of the
manufacturer’s um
ambient temperature conditions around
the pump because again we talk about
them as uh nowadays being these
little computers um but as long as we’re
updating the check files
diagrams or any of the the wet ends
pieces that are
the uh change out parts and you’re
keeping them up
up to date and maintained the pump
should last a long time
jared let’s get into the part that i
know you’re excited to talk about
what should we expect now with all the
changes in technology with metering
yes this is the exciting piece so
pumps metering pumps any processes
that use this type of equipment it’s all
about connectivity these days it’s
it’s how do we step into the next
industrial revolution
in the the world of digital enabled
products right
so that’s the same case with metering
pumps we already know that metering
pumps can tell us a lot of information
the system especially when we add things
like sensors to them
or specific algorithms that can that can
control things like a stepper motor for
example so
i think what we’re seeing now is that i
want to be able to remotely
get into that pump get into that
application use the inputs and outputs
and the signals that it’s
picking up around the system to then
make good decisions
on how i can go about scheduling
or just getting information for
reporting ensuring that the chemical
that’s being
pumped is the right chemistry that’s
being filled in the tank
because the pumps really don’t care what
it’s pumping but we do
and so having that feedback either
remotely and consistently
is important especially in today’s day
we’re all kind of
we’re all kind of stuck at home so
imagine being able to
tap into a site where your assets are
and see what exactly what’s being pumped
see if there’s any alarm codes see if i
need to deploy a service
tech out there in the field to to go
address that
and this really gets away from like the
the normal
way of going about and servicing
equipment which is like a
monthly schedule or annual schedule and
it’s really about working
smarter using the smart technologies
that we have available today
so i think connectivity and our ability
to get in
and really exploit the intelligence
built into this equipment
is the next thing that it’s already
happening it’s something we’re we’re
doing in
grundfos and i’m really excited to start
letting people know how this works and
providing this option in this
in this service to really change
business models that exist today some
take it away from something that might
be outdated now into the future and
and really use the technologies that we
have available in your opinion what’s
the biggest advantage to the metering
pump when it first hit the market to the
metering pump we have
today metering pumps today are
actually more than just a pump they’re
able to
see things around the system they can
detect system
changes with sensors and all the smart
technologies we we put in it like micro
controllers the way we program them per
pump to identify
what the pump can actually feed as far
as feed rate
so what we do is we can start
implementing things like these
algorithms and and and uh calculations
combined with a stepper motor technology
and the reason
we use step promoter is because we can
we can very precisely
control the movement of these stepper
motors there’s 200 steps between
rotational angles and these are very
small angles like 1.8 degrees
and then if we start stepping them down
even farther we can chop that up into
smaller chunks and get really precise
movement of that stepper motor
and one of the cool things is when you
actually tell the pump to speed up or
slow down
we can do that on the different suction
and discharge phases because of the
stepper motor
so we can we can say all right when you
go through a suction phase
let’s bring it back quickly because we
want to get back to putting chemical in
the process
and then when you take advantage of the
turndown ratio
we can start putting that in very slowly
which actually
reduces the need to install things like
variable speed
drives or static inline mixers
or pulsation dampeners because we’re now
reducing all the needs for those things
that we would normally
have to install them so we’re already
using a drive now because the pump we’re
able to take the speed of that motor and
adjust it depending on the suction and
discharge phase
and we don’t necessarily need a static
mixer because
we’re blending it we’re always injecting
chemistry in
instead of pulsing it in and then
waiting and slug feeding so
anytime you have a slug feeding
application where it’s just injecting
with a suction discharge
then waiting at a period of time then
you’re not getting a really good blend
but if you’re using a pump that can
push that chemistry into the line over
time then we’re constantly feeding the
and then we quickly retract to get to
the next discharge phase
that’s something that’s unique and and a
stepper motor allows us to do that
with these pumps these days pulsations
are reduced so pulsation dampers are
actually quite expensive
pieces of uh of a system and if you’re
able to
uh on small levels i would say maybe
eight gallons or below eight gallons an
hour then
you might consider not actually needing
a pulsation dampener because
it’s not hitting the system really
really hard on a on that small of a
um and the accuracy is still really
great with the pumps at that level and
you can again we’re getting the nice
um reducing the shock of of chemistry
going into the system
uh because of the slow consistent feed
rate that is offered
using a stepper motor type technology i
think that
when metering pumps first hit the market
it was more or less
a need to just move the chemical into
from point a to point b and now we’re
seeing it as more of a
a tool that can operate more pieces of
the process
it can not only move the chemistry but
can do it much more accurately
it can do it more reliably it can ensure
that there’s
safety measures in place to keep people
ensure proper chemistry is happening and
then give feedbacks
alarms warnings it can tell us things
that’s happening around
the system so we can start to see this
working as almost a
on-site systems diagnostics expert which
i think is
really cool and then being able to tap
into that remotely and get that
and push information bi-directionally
it’s now allowing us to
remove pieces like plc’s and other
panels that would historically have had
to be used
and condense our our system into a
smaller footprint we’re able to use
the technology and intelligence in our
pumps to
have faster integration faster startup
integration into systems so in a way
we’re putting a lot of effort on the
front end to develop these products now
and by doing that it’s become much
simpler and faster for the end users to
so if you haven’t upgraded your pump in
the past 40 years you might want to take
a look
i think that’s a very wise decision
let’s talk about installation because we
can have the best
metering pump in the world but if it’s
not installed properly it’s not going to
work properly and then of course that’s
going to give
us problems which means we’re going to
call you and give you problems so you
now have the entire scaling up nation
listening what are some considerations
that we need
to make to make sure that we’re
these devices properly yes so the the
biggest thing
and one of the weirdest things i’ve seen
is has to do with on the installation of
the suction
line coming into the pump
i’ve seen and you’re probably familiar
with not just the dosing pumps but this
like a
complete dosing system so there’s uh
basically it could be two pumps or three
pumps on a skid and then
a control panel or valves and such so
what i’ve seen in the past is as a
problem is
you’ll have like a a pump that requires
and this will come from the manufacturer
by the way they’ll say that their
requirement on the suction
and the discharges may be an inch pipe
or a three quarters of inch pipe
but if you have a header on the suction
side feeding
multiple systems that both require that
that that
naturally would mean you would have to
increase the size of that suction header
so that way you don’t starve the the two
and what they have what can happen is
the two uh different systems or multiple
pumps on the same header can start
battling each other because remember
they’re reciprocating they’re going
through a suction discharge phase
and if one’s going through a suction
phase while the other pump’s going
through their discharge phase
that’s a conflict so you can either
damage the pumps by
ripping out the diaphragms or something
else can happen in the system to
allow basically the the feed rate will
will not be what you want it to be so
the process is not getting treated
and one of the weird things i’ve seen
where there’s been a a tank like in a
above then you have the downstairs level
where the the skids are
you’ll have i i saw where there’s like a
three-quarter inch pipe coming down to
feed two
large skid systems so these are pumps
that require like one inch to one and a
quarter inch suction on each pump
but there is this three quarter inch
pipe coming down and then teed off to
both the skids
i had one skid on and running and then i
heard this other the other
dosing skid and the pumps i heard the
check valves
chattering so that means it was actually
hydraulically impacting the skid that
was off and that was
uh just not a good scenario so
always be mindful of of your your
suction piping
especially maybe you have to add a
dampener on the suction side and off
on also on the discharge side because we
want to make sure
there’s a scenario where if you don’t
have enough back pressure on the on the
discharge side of the pump you can start
siphoning and
just dumping chemical when it’s
completely off so the pumps
they don’t have a a stop inside the
that doesn’t allow the chemistry to push
through it so it always wants to go in
one direction but if the the flow is
positive on the suction side it’s just
going to push right up
as in if there’s not enough back
pressure on the on the discharge side to
keep it from doing that
so be mindful of scenarios where you
could siphon
or just dump your tank overnight because
that’s never a fun scenario when you
have an
especially if you like have an inspector
coming out the next day
and you’ve just dumped your entire batch
of sodium bisulfite into a tank
you don’t want to do that yeah
unfortunately that always seems to
on the most expensive product that you
have on a contract account
right after you’ve filled the tank up i
don’t know how the pump knows to do that
uh well let me ask what are some
things that we need to know as far as
troubleshooting so are there common
of replacement parts that we need to
keep with us
are there certain tasks that we have to
what to do that we should be versed in
what to do before
we’re calling the manufacturer asking
for help yeah absolutely there’s
um again i’ll point to the the dosing
head and the wet end of the pump
so this is where a lot of the
troubleshooting comes
sometimes it’s that my pump isn’t
actually a moving chemical this could be
due to
some kind of air coming into the head
whether or it’s
or it’s not seeding at the the check
if this happens there’s some things that
you can do so you need to know
how to take the dosing head apart and
those are usually in the ino or
maintenance instructions
for a dosing pump it’s usually a pretty
process so you’re removing four to six
head bolts and then you can basically
see everything that’s happening
and then usually the check valves will
something that you can just unscrew and
i always talk about
using like hand tightening or using your
hands to do this because a lot of times
these pumps are plastic
and you start getting a wrench on there
and what we see is a lot of times people
will over tighten their strip it out or
they use a wrench and
it just ends up destroying the pump so
hand tighten
is is always the best or get some kind
of a cloth around the
jaws of your channel locks to make sure
that you’re not really ripping it
so it’s they’re sensitive they’re
plastic it’s pvdf kynar
for example it’s kind of a a softer
pvc can just and p uh polypropylene for
example could be more brittle and they
could just crack
so be aware of that and then um
always make sure you have any if you if
you’re actually not getting chemistry to
flow through it
it could be that your check ball has
maybe a piece of debris in it
or it’s it’s not been wetted properly
yet to be started
and so we want to make sure that we can
create that seal every time on the on
the seat
and anytime that doesn’t get done you’re
not going to be able to
move chemistry or because it’s basically
like a diaphragm and check
the check valve have to work in unison
to actually move the chemical through it
so those are those are probably the
major and most common
the things that happen upon like a
startup or even if it’s been running
over time let’s say they
maybe move the system around and
something gets dislodged or
and finds its way in between the check
ball and that seat
you’re going to have to clear it out
before it actually works properly
at what point should we call the
manufacturer and ask
for help so this is going to be more on
i would say the electronic side if and a
lot of times the pumps will have some
kind of a warning that says
something that uh to the fact that it’s
maybe the the motor is not
working correctly or or if you’re if
you’re noticing that it’s just
pumping without a signal for example
just the weird stuff
like let’s say you have a 4 to 20
milliamp signal coming in
and and it’s not reacting to that for
some reason
there could be something on the pcb side
of things that
nobody in the field is going to be able
to know what to do so anytime you get
the pump and it’s just doing something
completely strange electronically that’s
when i would normally
directly go to the manufacturer because
if you try to start opening up
the body of those pumps you can risk
things like avoiding the warranties and
it just takes any of the control out of
our ability to
identify the problem later and then give
you know credit back to the to you
as a customer so don’t don’t be opening
the uh
the brains of the pump i guess say if
you’re not a if you’re not a brain
there you go that’s a great way to put
it what’s the one
thing that you see people doing that you
just want them to stop doing it
i i have to laugh at this because
it’s maybe more of a pet peeve of mine
but um
i know that it’s very common to just
power pumps on and power pumps off
i know that i get it but the pumps have
these days
the ability to take signals and there’s
a lot of signals that we send it from
plcs like
like i said earlier a 4 to 20 milliamp
signal and you can
you can basically stop the pump by
sending it 0 or 4 milliamps
but there’s also in in most of the pumps
nowadays you can just say hey i want to
give it a discrete
contact closure to start or remotely
stop the pump
all i would say is just let’s take
advantage of that technology
where you can just use a simple relay to
start and stop the pump with a command
one of the reasons i like this as
opposed to just applying power and
turning it off because
like i said earlier these metering pumps
these days are they’re smart they’re
they’ve got
computers built into them so if you
start cycling power on and off and on
and off
that’s that’s not a good recipe for a
product that you want to last a long
so take advantage of the remote on off
type of
scenario instead of powering it on and
to me that’s just a that old school way
doing it when the pumps are much smarter
now to be able to use
just a simple contact closures potential
free signal
what do you want the bottom line of
today’s interview to be what do you want
people to
leave listening to you and i have in
this conversation what do you want them
to take home
that’s a great question i would just say
that be open to the new
technologies that are out there i want
to encourage anyone that relies on
chemical feed equipment
or other process equipment to use those
built-in features that come with the
today use it to propel them into the
revolution and the world of digital
enabled products that
we see coming down the line you know
pumps can now
sense things that are not well in a
system so they can sense faults they can
sense failures and they can
automatically adjust to
to hit the target performance that the
end users and our customers are
looking to get we can use this
communication and cellular connectivity
like a narrow band iot for example that
can penetrate deep into
to rooms and concrete walls with
all since all we’re doing is really
transferring low amounts of data that’s
all we would need
and then we can get that feedback
remotely so being able to do this
get all this input do it remotely i
think it means that
business models and the way that we’ve
been doing things with routine service
is is getting kind of tired and outdated
and we have we have things that we can
spend our time doing that’s more
proactive now
by seeing this information that the
pumps and this technology is actually
giving us
so you know now that our pump technology
is smarter and more efficient
i think that we should start acting the
same way if somebody wants to learn
more about the things that you were
talking about today
where can they go we have a grundfast
technical institute
it’s a it’s a website that allows you to
go on and learn
different things about pumps and systems
i would point
anyone to that space within grenfos we
things on stepper motor technology we
have thing
uh information on our metering pumps
as well as just some basic courses uh
what a metering pump is
and there’s even a systems course so
that takes
all the pieces of a of the system around
the pump and
tells you what they’re used for and why
you would would need to use them in a
dosing application well i have a few
more questions
for you these are the lightning round
questions so are you ready for those
let’s do it all right so you can now go
back in time
and speak to your former self on your
very first day as an
engineer what advice would you give
i would just tell myself to be ready to
have your eyes truly opened
because uh you know i
i think we would take for granted all
that goes inside
like these inconspicuous water plants
and booster houses that we see
our water towers but with my experiences
now uh
coming from the state of missouri as a
regulator and then in my
equipment provider role here with
it’s uh quite eye-opening now now i
think about things like
where did that water come from what was
uh what was it actually before it hit
the first treatment plant
you know what should i be thinking about
before i go take a hot shower in a hotel
concerning things like legionella so i
think about all these things now and
i really didn’t think about any of that
before yeah ignorance is bliss right
i kind of was it’s like hey count
yourself lucky i guess is what i would
tell myself but uh
get ready get ready for a uh get ready
for a ride here
what are the last few books that you’ve
read oh yeah
it’s it’s been a little while but i i
read a book called the challenger sale
which is kind of
more of a sales approach that’s a great
one i think it was
it was a really cool book um kind of
showed me like
what kind of conversations you would
should expect to have with
customers to make sure you hit their
actual needs
which that’s kind of in a nutshell what
it did but uh it was a great great
guidance book
i read another one called leadership and
self-deception so that was more like an
book how people how you should treat
people like people and things like that
but it went through a really nice
narrative between a boss and a new
employee and a manager
and kind of how they were seen through
an organization to flip the mentality of
everyone from the secretary to
the ceo how they’re all aligned on the
same page as far as their mindset just
treat everyone like a person know their
and i thought that was a really great
book and then i’m a sucker for some kind
sometimes the the fantasy stuff so i
read mrs peregrine’s home for a
particular children
and before i saw the movie this time
which i think for me is a big
i didn’t read the book but i did see the
movie with my wife and she said the book
was so much better
it always is isn’t it that’s that’s what
they say and
and i think they’re right so uh well
speaking of movies when they make one
about you
who plays you this uh i would think
i’m gonna say paul rudd and there’s a
couple reasons
so i’m a kc guy i live in kansas city
and i went to ku
so right there it kind of already kind
of ties me into him right he’s kind of
goofy i tend to be a little bit on the
goofy side
i think we’re both comfortable on stage
i play in bands i’ve played in
i don’t know in and out of 10 different
bands throughout my career and
uh that’s one thing i continue to do but
you know he can also play the role of a
quiet nerd science lover type guy and a
superhero all in one i think i feel like
that that really embodies what
what i would like to betrayed as a great
now my final question if you could speak
with anybody throughout history who
would it be with and why
well you know i’m not much of a history
or anything but i think since i have
ties to music
i select john lennon
i think he had a lot of important things
to say socially and
about the world that he lived in and i
would i would be curious to
kind of pick his brain to see what
motivated him
to to speak on the things he spoke on
and what inspired him to write the type
of music he made because it really
a lot of bands and and artists even now
to make the kind of music they’re making
it also seems like
i think he’d be interested to learn
about water treatment you know he seems
like he’d be a good listener
now you didn’t mention when you
introduced yourself about music tell us
about that
yeah so music i guess is a it’s a part
of me it’s like
i have arms legs a head and then i have
music as another appendage
if i were to think about that way i
can’t seem to break out of that world
and i’m not apologetic about it but it’s
been a
lot of fun these these past few years
it’s kind of how i met my wife so
through friends my music brought her
friends to
our shows back in college and and i met
her so we started hanging out
and i have a wife and two kids now two
um i still play music i play in a green
tribute band uh so i don’t know if you
like green day or not but absolutely
i i tend to be able to sing his
stuff pretty well and so it’s a fun show
we have a lot of fun we do a good job
meeting the band
of portraying the green day band but i
enjoyed i also enjoy country music i
toured in a country a nashville country
band for
four years uh before this and i kind of
get into whatever
feels right you know well cool if uh do
you guys have any cds out
there’s no cds anymore is there anything
that anybody can download um i
don’t have anything it’s been like all
cover stuff i don’t own the intellectual
property so i can’t
do that but um i think there’s some uh
facebook stuff out there you guys can
you guys can take a look at
um now the band’s name is i don’t know
if it’s gonna be something that’s
politically incorrect but we just took
it from a green day album
so that’s my disclaimer our band’s name
is american idiots
like the album gotcha so that’s our
that’s our facebook handle well we might
go out there and see what we can find
and put on our show notes page and when
when we are ready for the scaling up
band we’re definitely giving you guys a
hey we got you covered don’t you even
worry about that trace
jared thank you so much for for sharing
so much information
about the metering pump yeah my pleasure
thanks a lot for having me on the show
maybe we can do this again sometime
nation i can’t tell you how many other
water treatment companies that i’ve
consulted with
that just use one pump now i’m not
talking about just one manufacturer
i’m talking about just one pump model
and normally it’s because they only want
to stock one pump they only want to have
repair parts for one pump
but i will tell you from experience
that it does not make things easier now
maybe it does you don’t have to stock a
lot of things you don’t have to bring in
a lot of repair parts
that might be easier but the day-to-day
operation when you have to hone in when
you have to get
precisely the right amount of product
your system i really think that that is
almost impossible
if you did not do your homework up front
size the proper pump now for those of
you that have been
to my math class you know that i talk a
lot about
using math up front so more time up
to save us time on the back end
i think that’s a good segue from our
introduction that we did earlier
we create our own luck in the field by
the preparation
that we do before we start
installing all of our equipment so
what’s the system volume
what is the output that that pump needs
to do
every day every hour every minute
and now we can get very close to
what needs to be fed and find the proper
pump to feed that product
now normally we give a little bit of
leeway so we can
do a little bit less we can do a little
bit more but
if we’ve calculated that that is a
great choice and we can now dial in the
dosage amount so we are feeding the
properly and folks i’m willing to
bet that if you spend the extra time up
doing some of those calculations you
are confident enough in your selection
of a pump that you would even set it
on 13 on friday no less
folks one of my favorite things that i
during the awt conference
was i got the privilege of hosting the
after hours hangs
many of you in the scaling up nation
and many of you have asked me to bring
that back you said it was
great to have networking with other
water treaters with
other suppliers that way you can get
your name out
you can learn new people you can figure
out a new network of people that you
might be able to call and ask questions
well folks i heard you and so did
everybody at awt
so we are going to do that very thing we
bringing back the hang and that
is going to be on december 10th at 6 00
so if you will mark your calendars for
december 10th
at 6 00 pm and you might be asking i
attend the hang i have no idea what you
were talking about
trace what is this hang well i’m glad
you asked
and simply what it is it is a
zoom call but it’s not like a regular
zoom call what we’re going to do is
we’ll start out in the
main zoom room i’m going to try to
entertain you for a few moments
and then i’m going to place you into
separate breakout rooms
that means you’re going to go from a
room of hundreds of people
into a room of about five people
now you are going to then get a few
leading questions from
me on how to get the conversation
started and you’re going to begin to
new people there might be some other
water traders there might be some
suppliers so
all types of water treatment
professionals are going to be
in that room and it’s going to give you
the opportunity to meet people that you
would not have had the opportunity to
meet for
sounds awesome right well we will then
bring you
back from that breakout room and then
send you into another breakout room
where you’re going to meet
five other people after that’s all said
and done
i’ll bring you back in the main room
i’ll give you some more entertaining
maybe ask a couple of questions from
some of the groups
and then at exactly one hour’s time we
will say goodbye
and i’ll let you know when the next hang
will be
so many people attended when we did this
during awt
and it was a great success and i know
it will be a success again on december
10th at 6 pm
if you are there so please mark your
calendars but don’t just do that
go to scalinguph2o.com forward slash
hang h-a-n-g so you can register
and get that in your calendar so you
are ready for it now folks you can use a
mobile component of this you can use
your phone
you can use your laptop you don’t have
to be in your office
in order to experience this hang so the
only thing you have to do
is just log in be there and be ready to
introduce yourself
and talk to some other water treaters
and probably the best part it is
absolutely free and how many things in
are free this allows you to meet other
scaling up nation members
and who knows you might meet somebody
that has the answer to
that question that you’ve been burning
to know
what the answer is there’s no doubt
about it our
job can be a lonely job we’re driving
from account to account
it’s great when we’re in front of the
customer but then when we’re on the road
going to the next account
a lot of times we are wishing that we
had somebody else to talk to i know
that’s why this podcast is so successful
but folks that’s also why these hangs
are successful you don’t know who you
don’t know
so meet some new people on december 10th
at 6 00 p.m again go to scalinguph2o.com
forward slash hang so you can register
and you
can be there i look forward to being
on the hang with you i also look forward
next friday where i will bring you a
brand new episode
of scaling up h2o in the meantime i hope
you are safe and have
a great week folks
nation one of the things the rising tide
mastermind tries to do
is teach us new lessons here is michelle
farmery explaining some of the lessons
she’s learned
as she’s been a member of the rising
tide mastermind
it teaches you to approach your goals in
a different light
you’re reading different books so a it’s
cutting down your screen time and
increasing your
knowledge because you’re putting
yourself outside of your comfort zone
one thing that i think is awesome is
that it teaches you to actively listen
i think all too often as adults whether
young adults or older
we were so focused on hearing what we
think somebody is saying and not
actually hearing
what’s being said and it it’s nice to
kind of take that step back
and actually listen to someone and hear
what they need and not what we think
they need and and so that you know i
love that benefit of it of
changing the way that you you listen and
think michelle thanks for that there’s
no doubt about it
we don’t know what we don’t know and
we can get together with peers we can
those blind spots and help point them
out to
each other if we’re not learning
something new
each and every day you’ve heard me say
it on this show before
we are not doing our jobs correctly
well the rising tide mastermind helps
all of that and the bottom line is we
try to make
each other better each and every time
we get together to find out if the
rising tide mastermind is right for you
go to scaling up h2o.com forward slash