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[Music]
welcome to scaling up the podcasts for water treatise by water treaters where
we’re scaling up on knowledge so we don’t scale up our systems everybody trace Blackmore here the host of scaling
up and folks I am so excited today because after dozens of emails from the
scaling up nation he’s finally here yes Marc Lewis CWT is my lab partner
today now given those dozens of emails were from mark Lewis but nevertheless
mark Lewis is on the show today folks mark and I have been friends for years
and if you’re a listener of the show you know we met at an AW tea convention and if it weren’t for the AWT we would have
never met each other and since that first time we met in Palm Springs I
think it was 2005 or some whenever we went to Palm Springs mark and I have
been the best of friends we’ve been the type of friends that can critique each
other and make each other want to be better on today’s show we’re gonna learn
about mark his path to becoming a water treat her and a bunch of things that Mark did for AWT and some of his views
on water treatment so folks I hope you enjoy my interview with Mark Lewis CWT
well I know everybody out and the scaling-up nation is thinking it’s about time because my lab partner today is
none other than Mark Lewis how are you mark with trace I’m doing very well and
you know getting on this show is harder than sailing some pieces of water treatment business so I am thrilled to
be here today well mark it is a delight to finally have you on the show I want to say that you are the second most
mentioned person on scaling up other than myself is that a fact that other than yourself it is a fact and my tally
has Angela Pike mentioned more than you and that’s even counting when you
mention yourself on show so the I’m the third most mentioned person on the show first time on the
show long-term listener first time caller I guess I should say I think we just turned into Larry King or something what
just happened Rush Limbaugh oh sorry okay well moving on from that mark
I know I’ve spoken about you on the show but there are still some listeners out there that may not know who you are so
tell us a little bit about Mark Lewis mark Lewis reaches a milestone a 50
years old this year so kind of exciting but with that in mind my water-treatment
career spans almost 30 years I started in 1988 down in Jacksonville Florida by
accident Kathy I my wife Kathy were visiting some friends that she babysat
for in high school and Steve Robson offered me a job just by meeting and
they needed a trainee in the field and I said you know God I don’t know anything about water treatment he said that’s
fine I’ll teach you so from there six weeks later we packed up and we moved to Jacksonville Florida and that starts my
career from there most of my knowledge has been through learning from working with others being given books to read
and figuring out almost by myself so after 30 years I guess we’ve learned a
little and I’m just here to share it with others I bet the majority of water
treaters out there stumbled on water treatment much like yourself I don’t think anybody’s out there that actually
goes looking for a career in water treatment maybe one or two only only sons and daughters of other water
treaters know about the water treatment field so there you have and my father of
course is the one that dragged me into this industry well mark you and I met because we both served with the
association of Water Technologies yes and I know we talk a lot about the association Water Technologies on this
show how did you get involved with AWT I wanted to be a taker working for a small
water treatment company early my career I said I should join the Education
Committee to be able to receive what the preparing to present to the AWT and kind
of bootleg that information and and what I learned was that in order to receive
you got a give and so by participating I actually learned that I gained not only
knowledge from our discussions but also mentors people that I could call at anytime that would help me out help me
solve issues problems give me things to think about and allowed me to grow in the water treatment fields so what
started out as a as a taking type thought process actually ended up more
to a giving and receiving I get back much more than I ever give but I think
that’s the way the AWT works yeah I know we say that all the time and if you’re not involved you really don’t get that
you have to get involved to see that you do get more than you give and in a lot of it is is just because the friendships
that you you you gain by participating by showing that you’re willing to to go
the extra mile and then you know those relationships just blossom and you’re
only a phone call away and so today because of the things I’ve done and and I think that they’re few
but I have just a plethora of people that are available just by making a
phone call yeah and looking from outside in I know people that are new to the organizations
and they see people walking around whether the convention halls or whatever
AWT function it is and they’re with their friends they think hey this is a very cliquey group but it’s not people
have met people they understand what they do they understand the field of water treatment and they’ve become friends so I think it’s good for people
that are just getting involved to realize that and you and I have spoken at length that we’ve been trying to get
people that are immersed in the association of Water Technologies to try to get other people into their friend
core group of friends so it does seem less clicky to use that word yeah and
one of the things you know a couple years ago back in 2013 the young
professionals group started up and and what was an idea in 2012 at Palm Springs
actually turned in reality in 2013 I think we hosted some
of the first social hours and and so it gives our young people a place to go and
form some relationships and form some bonds and then those groups then can go
and join a committee because it’s very intimidating to go sit in a room with some of the 45 56 year veterans speak
for yourself well there are some old people made every team and so but there’s a lot of
experience and so if we look at these people as as just brains full of knowledge they’re there their heads full
of knowledge that are willing to share and why not share it with me so go in
and sit in some of these meetings when we’re at the convention and we have committee meetings join a committee sit
down see what the AWT is do and see where it’s going I remember in 1997 the convention was in
Washington DC and Chuck bramble who was one of the founders of my first company
I worked for he invited me to go into the long-range planning session and it was on Saturday afternoon at the
convention and I sat in there and seeing where and what the AWT was doing and
where we were going it’s like and I need to put me a part of this and I thought I signed up for a
committee but I missed the 99 convention actually that convention was in 1998 now
mister 99 convinced but in 2000 it was in Hawaii and I said you know I signed up for this committee I’m gonna go in
and sit down and sure enough my name was on the list somehow I just didn’t get invited to the meeting and so from there
by participating in the calls was asked to do a little work did that work ask do
a little more work and then next thing you know I was asked to co-chair a committee and get it to where it needed
to be next so you do have to take that first step and put yourself in a
position to do a little what was the first steps that that you took when you
said okay I’m a member of this organization and now I want to get more
so I’m gonna give a little bit so I’m gonna do what the the first thing was was our
company we had Chuck rambled as our AWT rep he would go to the conference’s he
he did stuff rae WT as members are as employees of the company
we just received what he brought in and so my my first exposure to the AWT was
the we all went down to Orlando in 1994 to take one of the first CWT exams and
if you were lucky enough to take that first exam it’s 350 questions it was all
broken down in segments each section was timed you couldn’t go ahead you couldn’t
go behind it to do things and and it was a nerve-wracking four hours thanks to
Brent channel and you know he’s up there at the front of the room looking at us and and were staring at him because who
could write a an examination like this but that year you know I thought I’d get
pretty good on the exam got my results back I was told better luck next time try again and so I did
and in 97 we went back the Commission was actually in Atlanta at the Marriott
Marquis downtown sat for the exam again and this time I was successful and the
funny thing about the exam in 98 the passing the exam was that my certificate
number and I know you mentioned this often but my number is 98 but the employees of my current company all we
all have success sequential numbers I think there’s a 97 98 99 100 101 and 102
and so it was just amazing that I passed the exam at the same time with this
group of people and we all submitted applications and you know and very much the same order I guess and so all of our
numbers when you look at our plaques in the office and I don’t get in the office very much because ever I work remotely but all our plaques are there and it’s
just everything is in order so it’s kind of neat and that was in 97 and being a CWT being a smart guy you know is I was
cwt mean smart guy absolutely any time you have letters behind your name and I
don’t care you know PhD CWT they’re all those things you know in these people that have
multiple sets of letters behind your name they spend a lot of money on education now one set of letters is
great when you get multiple set of letters you’re just out of control you know you got to pay more in taxes or
something but well you heard it here folks so but anyway so after receiving my CWT I did Sam one a bit part and I
said help my company by by receiving stuff that the AMT was working on and so that’s when in 2000 I went in and just
became part of the committee and met Bruce Catterick and Bruce has become a dad you know all of us have our families
then we have our water treatment family and so so tres you’re a brother but but
Bruce is a dad and he’s just been amazing oh and in in the fundamental
applications technical training class we talk about finding the mentor Bruce
jay-j farmerie Bill Pearson Brent Chettle all these guys were very
inspirational in my my early development even though you know in 2000 I’m sitting
with 12 years experience you realize how much information you don’t know or you
realize how many gaps there are in what you do know and so having these mentors
allows you to fill in those gaps and I’m a very visual person you can tell me all
day long I still don’t get it when I can paint a picture with my eyes when I can see it that’s where I get it that’s why
in the fundamental applications quest there’s lots of videos you know we looked at that class and say okay I can
read this all day when I see it and I can visualize it then I’ve got it so
that’s why we do what we do in that class so after joining the Education Committee I was asked to co-chair where
the edge of back then certification education was one committing because of our bylaws tickler bylaws changes
separate so we had co-chairs and Jim looka niche was was education coach here
and I was certification coaching and when we had to work hard we had to get the the program accredit
did we had to get people to take the exam and move it forward to to what it is today and I think there’s even been more steps
and more processes have been done to to fully accredited that program that I
worked on in the early 2000s and then from there you know I was asked to chair
I was asked to do what I did in certification on membership and it’s funny Steve McCarthy called and said
mark I need you to chair another committee I need you to do there what you did here and I said anything but
regulatory or membership he said well I want you to membership and you said weren’t you listening you know he’s on
he’s on the left coast of folks don’t listen to us very much but but he asked and I said okay I don’t know what I’ll
do I don’t know what I’ll do different but we’ll do something and I took over a
membership committee gathered some people we put together some benefits for the AWT we with group membership we we
streamlined the process all about the time that our management our current
management comes to MSP took over we had a management change and Angela she was rude she says I was rude but you know
she was very rude to me because because I had work for her to do and I told her do this and and she would complain
because of the the way I asked her to do things she said I told her and yelled at
her and stuff but but we got over that well we have a relationship today that that’s pretty good and she of course is
an avid listener of the show so she will be calling you about this she loves me you know she loves me on the inside she
has to put up a front on the outside but on the inside she loves me and she couldn’t survive a technical training
session or a convention without me so I’ll say that so from membership committee chairperson
several years much like our current AWT president I was on the ballot three
times for the Board of Directors and the first two years were back-to-back that I was unsuccessful and I realized that I
probably wasn’t ready I needed to settle down a little bit learn some more about the organization and so even though initially I
considered it a failure later on I realized that it was really the right thing I wasn’t ready to serve in a capacity as
a board member but in 2007 I was elected so that’s 2008 started my term and I
really enjoyed the time I served on the board and since then after coming off the board I get to work with you now on
the in a fundamental and applications class as a teacher and we we just have a ball we’d love to share what we know and
as much of it as it is teaching the facts it’s more about telling you why
these things happen and the only restriction is because we’re fundamental and applications class we can’t go too
deep but what we want to do is we want to we want to set the stage to create a
desire in you to fill in the gaps mark let’s back up a second and talk about
the fundamentals and application class and how it relates to the technical
training class versus years ago when it was service tech training and the
technical training class well let’s back up even a little further all right okay
so let’s let’s talk about what the original way that the AWT did this early
on the AWT used to have two annual conventions a year one was business-related one was educational and
so the whole training program was built around business sections on one and only
I think that was in the fall and in the spring we had educational sessions and so one was all the East Coast one was on
the west coast and and the bad part about that was if you wanted to send somebody had to be the right time of the
year to get the right information that you wanted to go to so 1998 was the
first year that they said okay we’re going to one convention and some of that was because of the cost of a vendors and
everything else to get to both of them and which one do you miss which ones more importantly they’re all important so we went actually the first year we
had four regional training sessions and then the focus of the AWT was we’ll put
one of the southeast northeast Northwest Southwest and I think that happened one or two years and then they said you know
this is a lot of work we really need to control our costs or either our registration fees are going go through
the and we said we’re gonna have to we’re gonna have one on the East Coast one on the west coast in 2001
I remember going out to San Diego as a reviewer and my job was to sit through
and take notes I wasn’t there to learn I was there to listen and critique and
figure out what we needed to do different now I do want to say this to the scaling-up nation the word critique
a lot of people says oh that’s bringing me down that’s insulting me etc but
pratik there is to point out what you’re doing so you can be better so you can
receive criticism as negative but you should receive criticism as positive so
so my job there was was as a critic and and I sat there and gave some advice and
one of the things that we were learning was that people are attending technical training and we’re losing people early
on and so a couple years later it was determined okay what we need is we need to bring all the newer people the
younger people and when I say younger younger in the field the less experience we need to bring them in set them over
in this other classroom and talk about the basics and then second half of the
first day would merge everybody together and have one session and then that went along for a while and then what we
realized was that you know as bad as we we hate him we need to separate this
again and we need to have those folks who want to expand on their career and
Excel up to the certified water technologist program have a class that kind of teaches all the principles and
the knowledge is this around that but we also need to cover those people who are younger in their careers and talk more
about the basics and so in 2012 I think took maybe 2011 we created the service
technician program those folks who are out there managing water treatment programs but they don’t design the
program they’re kind of always working under the supervision of someone else and so that’s where the service
technician program came from and as we evolved to the next level we said you
know with what we have to do is we have to our programs and really draw a line down the middle and we’ve got to let our
service technician program cover a to ye or F and then we let our Technical
Training Program go you know go from F to Z because what happens is you got all
this knowledge and what started out as two and a half days now has been three
days now he’s going from 8 o’clock in the morning till 6 o’clock at night you just can’t jam any more stuff into it so
if we can create the fundamentals and applications ok that’s what we do and
why we do it if we can create this program and take some stress off of the technical training program they can
cover more of the stuff they need to cover to get the guys prepared to do what they need to do so that’s what we
did we sat down we had an outline and the hardest thing that I know that you and I went through and we were trying to
develop this course stop that’s too advanced how do we bring them up so far
and then stop and and so what we’ve done is is we did there was a lot of
criticism there we critiqued each other quite a bit and it was I’ve got to tell him this I can’t stop it there but but
what we were able to do is get to a point where we could fully explain something and then we drew the line they
said ok the rest of that’s covered next door and we use the term next door
because most of our training programs is it’s we’re on one side and either across
the hall or or down the hall is the next door it’s it’s where they’re teaching the more advanced course but you
mentioned this on an earlier show both courses are very important because if if
you start off and you know some stuff then you start over in the technical training class you may miss some of the
things that they are building on so in order to get that firm foundation you do need to come through the fundamentals
and applications class to create a a solid foundation in which everything
else is built upon and I think we do a great job there we ask for criticism every time we had some people that
reviewed our programs gave us feedback and and I think the first time out we were probably 75% where we thought we
would have been but uh I know that we have totally changed programs because
after listening to each other and one of the nice things is is I sit through
every session I don’t go in and just teach the classes that I teach I sit through the whole thing and and other
than the times when you’re teaching next door you do the same thing we’re sitting in the room we’re listening and it’s
more it’s important that it flows that there’s no gaps in what we do because that said this is the foundation we’re
forming up the foundation in which to build your water treatment knowledge on and one of the things we talked about in
our wrap-up is what do you do next oK we’ve spent the last three days going
over information going over knowledge putting pieces of the puzzle together and it’s almost like we put together a
hundred piece puzzle but water treatment is a thousand-piece puzzle so that’s
where it’s important that you learn how to do this well then you learn how to put to put together a 500 piece puzzle and then you learn to put that
thousand-piece puzzle together and you constantly are building upon what you’ve learned prior to if water softeners are
ten sessions we may cover three in our class next door then they pick up on two
more but there’s still five sessions we haven’t covered and that’s the interesting thing about the water treatment field you can always dig a
little deeper you can always go into this chapter that no one else has done and so I think the most important thing
that you can do is always ask yourself how does this work why does this work is there anything else to know about
this and so I think that’s that’s the whole premise around the the training
sessions is to fill in those gaps as much as possible but the hard part is the things that that I don’t see as gaps
you may so feedback is always very important we always hand out send out surveys you guys got to fill them out if
you don’t send back your feedback your survey and I don’t care if the chicken
was dry or the fish was cold that’s just gonna happen you know just
it is gonna happen and we care we try to take care of those things but what’s really important is is as much as you
attend to training to be a better water treater we present the training to make
everyone better water treaters and so what has to happen is is we got to tweak our programs and weed out the weak
points if we’ve got weak points in our training if we need to firm up part of
our training we only know that because you’ve told us ivenn water treatment for 30 years now
Treece a while oh wow a while you know all your life and so how many of those
years you count is actual water treatment I don’t know but good number of years and so there’s a lot of things we take for granted I’ll tell this story
you know when I first started in water treatment we would give them a test kit and and a couple of rule of thumbs
conductivity set point of these towers in this city is booked and we never knew
why okay and as we as we aged and moved up and got a little smarter we would
learn okay well you’re gonna get into problem areas if your hardness is above this number in your alkalinity if you
add those two numbers together they’re greater than a thousand you’re gonna scale the system so with Daddy mind okay
I kind of take a set point okay that is good okay now my check and balance is my
total hardness plus my alkalinity under under a thousand I am good this program
is good and the part that it didn’t take him to account was my heat load my pH
you know and that’s just on calcium carbonate he still had systems that had
other issues and so you know one of the things you like to ask mark what’s your
and always said mark there because I’m trying to get mark mentioned as much as I can so I get to raise my number of
times remember you can say Polly if I take the lead so mark what’s what’s your epic failure in water treatment so
you’re now asking the questions this is what’s happening right yeah I’m gonna ask those things because see I’m prepared for the question if you ask
them that I’m not prepared I may stumble but if I ask them then then I’m good to go so mark what’s your
epic failure and I would say that probably my epic failure was was recommending something that the customer
wasn’t prepared to handle and the example of the case I’m gonna give is is
I had a steam plant out in the county where the county came in and dug wells and supplied water and and the problem
was the silica was very high so low hardness low alkalinity the my biggest
limiting factor was silica so I said okay well we need we needed the mineralized on the system so that we can
cycle this thing up save water save fuel because you know we’ve got to deal with all of our water that comes in and we’ll
deal with our water that goes out so let’s conserve and be good stewards of our fuel in our environment what I
didn’t understand are didn’t fully take into account was the people at the plant weren’t prepared to monitor the d-mint
eliezer system and so when they started having issues with it they that just bypass it you know they wouldn’t go in
and figure out what was going on and then eventually they allowed the acid to run out during the regeneration and then
you blew up later we were told that the reason it blew up at over-pressurized because it ran out of acid and something
about the way the the regeneration cycle works it I never seen a fiberglass tank
split until then so after that we went in and rebuilt that unit got it working
again they were still struggled with it and we eventually replaced that unit
with a water softener and even though they ran lower cycles and things like that we had a much better program after
that so biggest failure the product of the point where I’m most proud was we
had a company or an account where I was probably the third or fourth rip on this account and it was had an air compressor
and so the the cooling tower served a small chiller and an air compressor and
the air compressor needed to be cleaned out the heat exchange needed to be cleaned out about every six months and
so they always had problems and so after taking some of the information that I’ve learned in LSI’s and
some calcium phosphate indexes what I learned was we’re dealing with a hundred and you know our programs based upon 125
degrees and what we’re actually ending up with is about a hundred and
eighty-five degrees and so our LSI when you calculate your your calcium phosphate index we were exceeding all
ability indexes SCI bility indexes and we should be scaling so we made an
adjustment to the program we made an adjustment to the setpoint and they went for about three years
without no problems with that heat exchanger so would that be in the case you know I feel like that’s from when my
greatest accomplishments was walking in after someone else and solving a problem that should have been pretty simple but
we do forget about some of these these systems that are attached to the cooling tower and so now you know it’s one of
those things what’s my worst case I look at my worst case scenario where’s my problem where’s my hot spot where’s my
flow issue and I treat for the worst case one of my favorite things that you
do in the fundamentals and application classes is you give everybody the water
analysis for a particular plant and then you ask them where do they take the
temperature from talk a little bit about that that’s actually my tricks of the trade and we give some some makeup water
we get some cycled up water I use a laser temperature gun and I shoot the
the cooling tower supply the cooling tower return the exiting of the heat
exchanger from the the heat exchanger and where the water leaves and where the water comes in and I say which temperature do
you use in this and enter your LSI calculation and whether you use LSI RSI
doesn’t matter it’s going to get the same results so with that being in my case I I’m at LSI guy trace as an RSI
guy it’s just who we are well it’s what we got brought up with absolutely and and and they’re both gonna tell you
basically the same information so but the numbers range from 1.5 to 2.8 just
by using temperature so of the five components of scale and calcium carbonate
calcium alkalinity temperature dissolve solids and pH you know the only one that
changed was temperature but yet 1.5 to 2.8 huge huge difference mark if I were
to ask you the question what the number one issue you see with new water treaties you would probably answer it
just the way you did that people aren’t taking temperatures at the right spot so I want to take that answer away from you
so folks out there make sure you understand your hottest your most stressed area because that’s where
you’re going to have issues but other than that mark what is the number one thing you see new water treaty
they just don’t quite understand or something they can do a little bit better probably the biggest thing and
it’s not just with new water treatise is it’s it’s well if Jim told me to do this
do it this way then that’s the way I’m doing it they don’t question themselves they don’t question the program that’s
in place and that’s everything from set points to by side additions to go back
to verification if you’ve got a system that set up the feed a pint a by side
two times a week and you come back in a month you know and you’ve only used a half a gallon a
product you say well is that right yes no well should feed a quart a week and
it’s only feeding a half a gallon quart a gallon a week and and so well the pump
set right when I do the calculation the pump is right you know it should right it should feed for 15 minutes at this
pump setting I should feed my pint and so the you assume everything else is
going right but a lot of times we take our calculation sheet we use that to set up our program and then we set it aside we never look back at it and so trust
but verify we trust our settings but then we need to verify what we’re what we’re actually doing and it’s the same
thing whether you if you take water meter readings and you should wind up when available don’t just take a water
meter reading and do nothing with it go ahead and determine okay what’s my gallons per day and that’s total makeup
okay well most of our inhibiter fee is based upon you can either do a total makeup and /
cycles or you can do your blowdown and you know depends on how your programs are set up and say okay if I’m if I’m
using ten thousand gallons a day and I’m running three cycles and I should be
using three thousand gals they blow down then okay I should be using three pounds
of product today times 30 it’s 90 are you using you know nine ten
gallons a month you got to know those things you got to put those those facts together because your tests tell you one
thing your machine tells you something else but then your your data is gonna
tell you another thing so my water analysis are good I’ve logged my machine my machine looks good I have verified my
inventory because with one mistake what upset your machine may not tell you
anything wrong but several upsets then your machine tells you something wrong
then you have a problem that may not be easily corrected so that’s why I say you
know make sure your numbers look good make sure your machine looks good and then make sure your your you’ve fed the
products that you think you should feed great answer and for those that are looking for more information to be able
to think through the process just like you did the technical training that you were just talking about is a great way
to start with that one of the things we do in fundamental application is like I said earlier we use a lot of videos and
and I’ve taken I’ve taken my camera and I’ve shot videos of of what the chiller
faceplate looks like what numbers you can see there where to get those numbers from and then how do we use those
numbers to verify something’s going on I had a chiller that was showing a
saturation temperature and that’s the refrigerant temperature coming out of the condenser barrel going back to the
the economizers in a chiller and and it was saying that it was 97 degrees okay
and can’t be you know we stick a gun it’s 85 so there was a sensor wrong and
believe it or not the service company came in and be scaled this machine thinking that the Machine wasn’t
transferring the heat they did need to descale this machine they needed to change a sensor and so when in doubt
blame the water treaters I got that goes yeah you know and that’s easy to blame your water tree but you know when you
can come in and say you’ve got a problem with your you don’t get good data and so
you got to go back in the poor rascal that was logged in this chiller he’s logging you know inland now at water
temperatures and then he’s logging this other number and he doesn’t know what they mean and so there again fundamental
applications we talk about all those numbers what why do we log that number what do we see it you know what are we
looking for and even though numbers are going to change from this machine to that machine
from this refrigerant to that refrigerant you get a pretty good understanding of where those numbers
should be or at least when you’re logging those numbers if you’ve got any history that you can compare back when
we used to do paper reports you know it was it was you you carried a folder into every account and your last service
report was on the left-hand side and you’re writing the report on the right-hand side and you could look back to see where your numbers were and it
was a good indication of where your numbers have normally been and so now you’re checking where your numbers are
today today a lot of people do computer generated reports now some people they they have those numbers right with them
some programs don’t show those you know where your numbers were in the past but part of your water treatment reporting
should always be review where you were now your view where you are is anything out of whack because looking at today’s
report okay this isn’t too bad but when you go back and compare it to where you were in the past are you developing that
problem and you only know that by comparing your data that’s a great point mark you talk about chillers and you do
a you do a fantastic job in the fundamentals an application class with that in fact I believe I’m on record on
this show calling you a chiller whisperer yes I’ve heard it is the my absolute favorite thing that you do you
understand how the chiller works what the issues are how you can find out
there’s an issue before it become a major issue if there is one reason to
for somebody to sit in the fundamentals an application class it is to find out
more about chillers you just do a phenomenal job with that well I’ll tell you that that all came from my former
company premier water energy technology you know where for Tom brand fo for 17 years and and one of the things he did
was brought in trained and we all attended a training about chillers and
how they work and what’s going on and they you just have a workbook that you could get and and go through and fill
out the workbook and and a lot of my pictures that are in my training came from from that workbook and and such and
and it just it paints that picture you know when you’re talking about liquid refrigerant sitting in an evaporator
barrel and you don’t normally think about refrigerant ball in at 45 or 50
degrees but but it does okay and then you got to take that at or you can
reject 50 degree heat outside where’s 100 degrees and so that why question why
how does this work is what inspired me to go through and dig deeper and deeper and deeper so it’s
it’s those kind of questions that teeth that allow you to learn a little bit more it allows you to teach yourself or
allows you to ask that question so you know you take that the refrigerant how
do you take it from 50 degrees to 100 degrees because your condenser water temperature is 85 to 95 degrees and so
we got to take we’re making 42 or 45 degree water using 85 95 degree air so
our water that’s going from the tower and then you know then then the other question is well how do you cool and
make water this 85 degrees when it’s a hundred and two degrees outside
no no mark Bermuda may not understand this up in Edmonton Canada but tres and
I we’re doing here in Georgia and the Carolinas and we get 100 and 100 and 203 degrees in and it’s hot so then you
understand how evaporation works and why water evaporates you know for years I thought that fan was to cool the water
but how does 102 degree air cool water at 82 degrees 85 degrees and so when you
understand those principles you know because I’ve got a marketing degree I don’t have a chemical degree I don’t
have a mechanical degree you answer those questions and say ok and I understand that and so we’ve taken all
those principles that we put them in this class and that’s how people learn and we show you know we we paint that
picture so that everyone can understand it mark I get people that ask me all the
time or are they just make the statement you know I’m a CWT or I’m on the CW T tracks so I don’t need to go to the
fundamentals an application class but in the technical side we’re not talking about stuff like that there is so much
about the chillers the hands on I can’t think of a better troubleshooting
presentation and hands-on demonstration that we have with the controllers we have three controller manufacturers that
come in tom tinny woofer to the show he was on the show he’s actually showing you how to put a multimeter across a
probe and how you can tell all these different things that are going on there you’re not getting that over in the technical training class so they truly
do build well there’s a lot of people with a lot of education that are stupid I don’t know where you’re going with
this what I’m saying is just because you have education don’t mean you have common sense or you don’t have the
knowledge you have the book knowledge but do you have the practical knowledge have you been exposed to it have you been exposed to it has someone explain
to you what’s going on here and I think that’s really you know as a lot of what we were we were looking at because a
Jung water treaters there’s no way we can teach what you need to know in three
days sure there’s no way that if you come to the fundamentals and applications and you come to the
technical training class in the same year go to West Coast go to East Coast back to back there’s no way you know
everything you need to know so what we have to do is we have to expose you and
create a drive in your mind that allows you to go back and do some reading on your own the test to send scaling up
some questions so that they can answer them on the air or you don’t get that mentor that we talked about and have
some time with that one of the things we talk about is is when you get back from training put on a
little training session for you for your company so take the topic that you learn while you were there because you know
when you hear something you retain so much of it then when you read something
you retain a little bit more and then when you actually say something you’ve
know you know even more about that topic so so learn something enhance your knowledge and then presented teach
somebody else because all of us are in the shoes that you are today we’ve been
there and so with that in mind where we all need to learn a couple of years ago
I had a business owner and AWT member call me up I’m not gonna say which one and when we were going to Vegas for
technical training he said quite frankly he did not trust his people to remain in
the seats at technical training he thought that they were going to be out on the strip somewhere and he wanted me
to take in attendance every single day to make sure that they were there and I didn’t think that was the right way to
handle that so I gave him the advice of exactly what you said make them responsible for the information that
you’re sending them to go receive let them know as soon as they come back they’re going to be teaching the entire
organization about three topics that they learned well those folks were in the seats every single day and then
later I heard exactly what you said that what they decided to teach on they knew
that stuff better than anything else that was talked about during that technical training that just explains
exactly what you know what we’re trying to do we’re trying to to teach something
and then require you to go learn a little bit more about that information
that we teach so that you can become an expert on the topic well mark we can definitely spend the entire show talking
about technical training and fundamentals and applications and it would be a great show if we did but I know the audience wants to learn more
about you so I’m going to put some information on technical training and fundamentals and applications on my show
notes page folks out there if you want to link directly to the registration page it will be scary
h2o calm /tt 2018 and like I said we
could talk about this all day but I want the audience to get to know Mark Lewis so if I can ask you what is your
funniest water treatment story funniest and water treatment story probably it’s
not really water treatment but it’s it’s I guess it is water treatment we used to do Monday morning trainings and Chuck
Rambow was then sitting next to men and and it was my job to teach you know and
I don’t know why they made me do it but chop that up and if you know Chuck bramble he got up in his huffy puffy
voice and he said something and he was as he stood up and I’m sitting in the chair I reached over and I grabbed his
pants right by his hips and a sugar trying to get his attention and his pants ripped down the side oh
and so but does eat Chuck would would rip pants on you know come to work and
have me go home and change clothes it was it didn’t sound funny then but you had to be there because tom has his son
and everyone else couldn’t believe that somebody had done something to Chuck like that actually all of my times I
work with Chuck are pretty funny when I started in 1988 you know one of the
things we did was when you did something bad you had arrived with Chuck and so this was I guess this was 1990 and I had
to ride with Chuck and it was December right before Christmas and Chuck was driving in 1979 mercedes-benz and so we
always got onto them you’re driving a car that’s three decades old it’s built in the 70s and we’re in the 90s and
we’re heading up to the Brunswick Georgia and it was December and and you know we had a cold spell that’s probably
in the low 20s know now being from Florida the 20s are cold if I have to
put on a jacket it’s cold and we didn’t get 20 miles up to up the interstate and
Chuck’s heater stopped and we spent the next three days begging for heat any way
we could get it except spooning we didn’t know there wait wait but we were we were wearing our jackets
in the car we rub it and I was complaining and when we get back I guess I’d complain to my wife so much
we got back the day of our Christmas party and my wife went up to chuck grab
hold and said Chuck Mart will never ride with you again so it was it was kind of
funny I guess mark I’m not sure if we mentioned this earlier to the scaling-up nation but chuck was the founder the
first president of the Association of Water Technologies he was and that could probably be a
story on its own you know lucky for me I mean I worked with Chuck and so I heard a lot of stories and I
was able to ask him a lot of questions so there’s probably a ton that goes back
that if there was ever a historian of the AWT I could probably tell you a lot
now no there’s there’s some people that’s been there since our since our beginnings that could probably fill in some little more details but you know
for something that started in 1985 as a thought because of a problem you know
there’s and it started out because of insurance and when you’ve got seven or eight guys meeting at a table at the
back of CTI trying to figure out how we’re gonna survive how our company’s gonna survive and bringing all the right
people together and I think that’s one of the things that those original founders did they brought the right
people together with the right skill sets now none of them had all the skill sets but each individual brought
something to the table that when they all got put together it was quite amazing so when you look at the vision
that they had in 1985 in 1986 and then finally in 1987 form the AWT it’s really
amazing to see what those guys went through to build the integrity to what
it is today yeah and Chuck passed away a couple of years ago he did the brambles are
special people to me because and I worked with him for 17 years and when we
moved away we moved from Georgia down to Florida did had no family down there so
so the brambles were kind of like family and I spoke to Chuck in June about some
things the a deputy was going through and I’ve heard that he was having some throat problems and things and I didn’t
realize that he was as sick as he was and then when I got the news Tommy called me and I think I was past
president of the AWT at the time but Tommy called me and asked me to share it and I don’t know if you’ve ever been put
into a position to share that kind of news to folks but it was it was
difficult and so I’m you know I’m working I’m service in a cooling tower and and you get a phone call and as hard
as it was for time to make that phone call it was it was it was hard for me to draft an email because I thought the
first thing we need to do is contact the past presidents and then and then share that with the group as well and yeah we
did that and a couple days later we attended the memorial service actually you went you and I went together and we
had some discussions on that trip oh no it’s it’s from Atlanta it was about a five-hour ride and so we got to we got
to talk and that’s what I really realized that without the AWT I wouldn’t
have the friends that I have today I’d wouldn’t you wouldn’t be in my friend I have we have nothing in common other
than the industry but really the AWT because there’s a lot of folks in the
water treatment industry I know they’re there I just don’t know who they are I don’t know what they do but the AWT brought us together so got one of my
best friends now because of the AWT and it’s because people like Chuck and J and
Britt gel and Bruce Catterick and and in art Friedman who’s no longer with us that that you know really paved the road
to where we are so how can we honor those people by leaving the industry in a better position tomorrow than it was
today and so why do we do what we do we do it because we want to honor those who have
come before us out standing up I can’t imagine that being said any better mark
a lot of people ask how do you sell water treatment and I’ve spoken a little
bit about it on the show but how do you mark Lewis go after a new account and
how do you bring that to actually making that I am probably one of the worst salesmen
from a knock on door knock knock knock on doors I knock on doors but I sell
with integrity I’m not gonna lie I’m not gonna over sell I’m not gonna push I’m
not going to put people put it in an uncomfortable position to where oh here’s mark again I have fun and and I
have no problem in developing a relationship and saying if your current
vendor is taking care of you and you feel like you’re you’re paying what you believe to be a fair price you need to
stay with them if you’ve got a relationship that you trust you you need to stay with that person
with the same mind because I want the same to be said about me when people are
trying to sell against me now I know that’s not always the case but I’m not gonna lie I’m not gonna promise things
that I can’t deliver you know under sail over service give the customer more than
what they expect surprising yeah you mentioned lying and you know sometimes
it is lying but I think it’s very easy to over exaggerate in this business
because we understand so much more than the end user the person that owns the
equipment that we’re servicing they know they need water treatment but they hardly know what water treatment is and
I find that more often than not when some people go after business they
exploit that issue I’ll say this most productive day I’ve ever had was was I
had a rep with us that was just he was he was servicing accounts and so it was time for him to move in and see if he
wanted to play in the sales field or something and and so he went with me and we made three cold calls and on that day
got asked to do surveys that day and ended up picking up the business and I
told him I said this is not what you do now and what I would say is when advise
you not to hope things move that fast and the reason for that is is by walking
in to an account at one time writing up a proposal and things like that
you’re gonna miss things you don’t fully understand the system even if it’s
something as simple as a cooling tower and a chiller and a closed loop you’ve
got to have a little history of the account you got to have a little history of the systems what are the the closed
loops tight are they you know what kind of make up race do they have what are
the issues if you’re gonna go in and solve problems if you’re gonna go in and
prepare a program better than what they have you don’t need to go in there and say oh they’re feeding by side three
times week program feed by sides three times a week they’re feeding you know the inhibitor like this or they’re
blowing down from here you don’t assume that everything they’re doing is the right way take your time and tell folks
that you know you want to be their vendor but there’s no way you can learn their system quickly you’d rather
develop a relationship you’d rather learn what’s going on learn why they’re doing things because the
worst thing you want to do is to go in there and make a promise of changing something because it’s the right way to
do things but learn their system won’t let you do it that way great point
earlier this week I was looking at a new piece of business and in doing exactly
what you just described I was making the system talk to me and prove to me that it was hooked up in the right fashion
and I found that in the line of flow we were putting product back in the system
and then about a foot away we were bleeding so we were bleeding concentrated product right out of the
system it was a cooling tower and I pointed that out to him and the engineer stood back and he looked at me and he goes it’s been like that for 20 years
and you’re the first person that ever pointed that out we do a survey to look at how things are plumbed what things
are done you know how things are done the condition of the system and you know one of the things we talked about in
fundamental and applications is is God gave you five senses use them all touch
things just because a temperature gay says this and this is there really that
much of a difference use a temperature gun cheat the difference look around looking things how are things installed
how are things operating listen listen to pumps and not only your chemical
pumps listen to the recirculating pumps when you can tell a customer he’s got a bearing going bad because you hear it
moaning they’re in the plant every day what becomes normal to them may be odd
to you pressure gauges if you’ve got a cooling tower sitting higher than a pump
and you’ve got a negative pressure on your your suction side of your pump you
got a screen clogged so when you can look and see what’s going on then you
become one of them and in you know as AWT as a committee member as a board
member you’re always to take your company hat off and put your AWT hat on okay when you walk into an account take your
company hat off and put your customers hat on and you’ve got to be an extension of their staff and and the other way you
can do that is if you know what you’re looking for what you’re listening to and know what’s going on mark I would
definitely say that there’s a lot of people out there that aren’t using their powers of observation but I also think
there’s a confidence level that maybe they don’t have and they’re falsely putting that in the person that came
before him well the person before me was a 20 year veteran so surely he had this
system hooked up right so I’m just going to assume that it’s hooked up right do you think that’s going on how can that
new guy tell that 20 year veteran that they were doing something wrong but I also say that sometimes you do what you
know and just because something is done like something in the past doesn’t mean
it’s there’s not a better way to do it and whether it’s for years people
brought bought product and they took the product and they mixed it on a 55-gallon drum and they fill it up full of water
and they pump that solution into the cooling system into the boiler and they
make any now we now worth everyone feeds neat who’s the guy that made that change
from hey let’s make this dilution to less feed neat so so things and me is feeding directly out of the
package feeding ya directly out of your shipping container or out of a permanent place dual containment system and as
things change systems change it may be that they were bleeding there only
because that was the only port that was available and so well if you’re talking
about my case no they could have just swapped the two and it would have worked fine so I don’t know what that excuse
was how many times do you make a recommendation and the customer doesn’t follow it so somebody goes in and they
make this recommendation oh you need to swap those two Oh Mike let me ask you so that’s a super easy fix so why wouldn’t
the person who has the business it was PVC why wouldn’t they just make the fix themselves southeastern laboratories my
company says I can’t do plumbing okay because if a PVC fitting comes unglued and floods the basement because I glued
it I’m held accountable so that company might not have been able to do work like
that I might not be able to do that now and in what I tell my customers I’m more than willing to help you you just assume
responsibility for what I do I will move it but it’s under your guidance and your
responsibility you know you know you cleaner and I’ll use glue and I’ll let it set up and all this other stuff but I
can’t be held accountable if something fails so you know my company has gone the way that says we’re not plumbers
we’re not licensed aplomb were not insured to plum and the etcetera etcetera we’re not gonna assume that risk so what has happened is is the is
even your previous guy the year 20 year bitterness said we need to change those around and the customer never did it
okay well then my job is to take it one step further and say you know those are those are Swift so if we were to switch
them we’re gonna save some product and and so now what you’ve done is you’ve
created an environment that oh there’s some savings to be had so so now where
it was just oh you need to do this there’s a reason for me to do it so don’t just make the recommendation sell
the recommendation any time you give a recommendation and I don’t care what it is tell them tell them what the
recommendation is and tell them why to make the recommend I tell my customers if I tell you to do
anything differently than you’re doing today ask me why and if my explanation
doesn’t make sense don’t do it so if I can’t prove to you that you need to make that change then don’t do it
mark what is the best advice you can give our listeners to when they lose
business and I’ve got a piece of business right now that I’ve had is my very first piece of business for selling
with southeastern and and I was told 1st of December that corporate has decided
to go in a corporate contract so I’ve had this piece of business for 11 years
now and everyone loves me however corporate from the offices down
the street no one in in the facility that I’m in they made a decision to
change so my deal with my comment with him was I understand what can I do to
make this transition as smooth as possible you know I could have picked up my my stuff and left and went away but
if I ever want the opportunity to get that piece of business back I’ve got to go out with dignity I’ve got to go out
as a helper got to go out as a problem solver now could have been a piece of business that went away the 1st of
December I still have that business and it’s still decent as February rolls around I’ll still have that business now
no one that is going away I’m gonna treat them as a customer until I’m no
longer their vendor and then they become a prospect you’re always going to go back and make sure they’re being taken
care of and they know you’re there they know I’m there they know that for the last 11 years they haven’t had issues
they have had problems and I do things I don’t just say hey you need to do this I
do what I can do to fix things so that when I leave they’re fixed other vendors
haven’t done that for them mark that’s one of the biggest issues that we have as a company I would say 90% of the
business we get is because somebody’s called us in because there’s a problem and then we solve that problem we have
that piece of business for years and the customer forgets they ever that problem and now they go looking for
price again what advice would you give me and my company to not have to go
through that first I need your billing address so that I can send you an invoice for consulting work fair enough
the one thing that that you can always do and whether it makes a difference or
not it depends upon your customer we’re built on relationships and it is a matter of remembering where you were and
remember where you are sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t you know it’s almost like servicing your
AC unit at the house you know if if you service it every quarter it maintained
or twice a year it maintains the proper operating efficiency if you don’t
service it it drops off a little bit a little bit a little bit more than people what they don’t realize is by
maintaining the efficient system you’re gonna pay less money it’s and no one
looks at what they paid a power company no one looks at what they pay the water company everybody looks at what they pay
the water to be a vendor because that’s a monthly billing you know I see that every month my electrical house is what
my electrical costs because it’s hot outside my water toast is because that’s
what we used everybody forgets that when that machine operates efficiently it’s
gonna be cheaper to operate and when you look at the utilities budget you know when you look at what your power
consumption is what your water consumption and what your water treatment cost are you know something
that runs 70% of your budget compared to 2% of your your budget your electrical
cost your water cost person is 1 or 2 percent of your water treatment cost you’re gonna save ten dollars here and
risk spending thousands of dollars over here so you know it’s so it is a matter
is it’s continued education remember where you are and and even you know it’s a long term they probably won’t care but
you know what you’ve done for them I will tell you looking at some of the accounts that we’ve lost a while ago we
have again because those problems kept back up and I gotta tell you I love it when that happens and I I took your
advice we left gracefully made sure that they knew if they ever had any issues or
any questions we were just a phone call away and sure enough when their chiller wasn’t able to get the load handled like
it was going through before we came and started doing that again they gave us a call and we were able to fix it good
deal well mark I’ve got so many questions to ask you I’m gonna invite you back we’ll have you on another
scaling-up show but I was hoping that I can ask you some lightning round questions okay so and as you know these
are similar questions that I ask all of my guests and we get to play along to see how similar and how different that
they are so if you could go back in time and talk to yourself on your first day
as a water Trier what advice would you give yourself proper to remain humble
are you able to do them you know believe it or not it’s a struggle but but there
there’s in your in your life you have these ups and downs and what you remember is when you’re up you’re up but
someone else may be down so so when you’re up you’re the way that you speak and believe it or not you’re talking
very confidently and you’re probably talking other people down and so remain humble remain appreciative even if it’s
appreciative for the the opportunity to look at a piece of business where the opportunity to learn something so I
guess that’s what I’m gonna say is there as always remain who you are on the inside not just what you are on the
outside no I can pay attention dollars around you absolutely mark what are the last few books that you’ve read last few
books probably it’s how you play the
game it’s a it’s a it’s a book that my Pastor David Chadwick wrote about Dean
Smith coach Dean Smith from the UNC Tar Heels and my pastor actually played for
Dean Smith when he was in college and so he he wrote a book and was asked to
update it when when Dean spent passed away a few years ago and we actually used those principles
and we have a small group that the men get together and we went through the book and discussed those principles and
how they affect us on a day to day basis and then probably from that book called
soul keepers and I forget the author but you know one of the things I do is is
I’m always looking Who am I I know who I am here and there and but
why do I think this away why do I want I do these things you know visit me the book soul keepers is is a book that as I
read and it’s a self-help book and then probably the last book is face book
okay I gained a lot of knowledge and most of it is is laughter you know it’s
funny how we play but even though you learned so much from from what people do
and then what people comment what they complain about what they rejoice about and so and I know face book really in
the book but I’m not I’m more of an article reader reader than I am a book reader to sit down with a book and read
it that’s not me I will say that the I tried audiobooks because we spend a lot
of time in the car absolutely yeah that’s why I listen to the podcast it’s not for anything else it’s just you nobody enjoys it they just have nothing
else to do it’s just the time killer but you know in in the book was I want to
say it was called night flight but I’ve looked it up since I gave my version away it was like 9 CD discs or so it was
a huge book it was like 20-something hours I found myself sitting in the car with it still running and when I should
be in service and it counts but it was it was all about flight TWA 800 when it
got shot down crashed or whatever it did as leaving for New York and it went
through the investigation of an individual who did all these things and then at the very end of the book I won’t
spill the beans but all these people are coming together when another event happened and it’s like no you can’t in
here so to sit down and read I couldn’t do but to listen I loved it I loved it so but just one
other thing if anyone hasn’t listened to Randy Pausch is the last lecture i would
i would recommend googling it and the last lecture randy pausch talks about life and it’s a great book
I’ve used a lot of his quotes and so I’ve actually read the book but I and
I’ve also listened to the lecture so Tim Fulton who came on earlier he threw our
Vistage group he had us do an exercise where we had to write our last lecture
and that was a tremendous exercise I think you did something like that when you were on the AWT board did I did I
did I did all right Marc last question if you could have a conversation with anybody throughout history who would it
be with and why you know I’ve heard this question asked so many times the during
the lightning round and and you know I’ve got my jokes that I would always say but probably I would write I wanted
to talk to some of the writers of the Constitution a document that was written
225 years ago 230 years ago I can’t do the math to 13 or 32 years ago at this
point with the insight that they have knowing what the country needed putting
all those things together in one document and to be amended 26 times from
that it’s just amazing so how do you think what were you thinking how did
these things come up to need to be addressed so understanding what they were going through and still it’s very
applicable today folks I gotta tell you it’s lonely being a water treat or we
spend a lot of time by ourselves servicing accounts and trying to figure
out what’s the best thing to do to make those accounts better to have a friend in the industry that you can trust and
one that challenges you to be better or just one that you can talk to and get
more information on is invaluable in this industry and Mark Lewis is that
kind of friend to me since I met mark I’ve had a person that I could use as a sounding board to help me understand
things just roleplay on how am I going to explain something to a customer I
even talked to him about this Podcast and i talked to him about some of the show topics that i’m thinking
about doing and how they will be perceived in the water treatment industries mark and i have looked over
each other’s proposals for errors it’s just great to have somebody in the
industry that you can trust and somebody that has your best interest in mind so I
hope all of you out there in the scaling-up nation have somebody like
that that is helping you become a better water treater and if you don’t I hope
that you are doing things you were setting yourself up so you can meet people like that as you know the AWT was
the catalyst that allowed mark and I to meet so I hope that you’re involved in an organization like the AWT if not the
AWT so that way you have every opportunity to meet people that
understand what you are going through day today speaking of the AWT for those
of you in the scaling-up nation that live around the Washington DC area
the AWT stem task force needs your help and for those of you that don’t know
stem stands for science technology engineering and math and the charge of
the AWT stem task force is to educate the water treatment sector to future
water treaters so who knows that there is actually a water treatment industry
out there when they’re in high school or even younger so their job is to help promote that so for those of you in the
DC area you might want to get involved with this opportunity the AWT via the
stem task force is doing a demonstration set up they are going to have a booth at
the USA science and engineering festival this is taking place April 7th and 8th
at the Walter E Washington Center in Washington DC so if you live near there
it might be a great excuse for you to bring your kids and show them all the really cool things that they have at
this festival and maybe volunteer a little bit with the stem task force I am
gonna have information about the task force what they are doing and also the
show last year they had over 350,000
attendees with over 3,000 displays and and folks like Lockheed Martin are there
and NASA and they’ve got flight simulators and and all that cool stuff so if you’ve got kids and you’re in that
area definitely bring them by I think you’ll enjoy it and it will give you a great opportunity to work with the stem
task force if you are interested in that go to my show notes page I’ll have some information for you and if you want to
contact AWT please contact Sarah wood at s wood at AWT dot org I also want to
remind you that we have the AWT technical seminars coming up you really don’t want to miss that as you know it’s
the favorite thing that I do each and every year I hope that I see multiple
people out in the scaling-up nation in attendance there I can’t wait to meet you in person
you have two opportunities to do this you’ve got Las Vegas which is February 28th through March 4th and then again in
Cleveland March 21st through March 25th I really hope to see you there and if
you need some information about that go to my show notes page the direct link will be scaling up h2o comm /tt 2018
that TT stands for technical training 2018 I can’t think of any other thing
that you can do in the water treatment industry that will help jumpstart your knowledge in this incredible career I’ve
been getting some great feedback on the pH meter segment that I did on show 30
for those of you that haven’t listened to that that’s scaling up h2o comm
forward slash 30 and the consensus is that most of us that have been having
issues with our pH meters holding calibration it wasn’t a meter issue at
all it was an operator issue we were not cleaning them I’ve had numerous people
said that they were not cleaning their meters the way they should they didn’t have a regular interval where they were
calibrating their meters so they weren’t sure if they were in and out of calibration and I had numerous people
say that they weren’t storing them correctly I got to tell you folks I love it when you contact me and you say a bit
of information that I gave you made you a better water treater so I am so glad for that information I’m
also so glad that somebody wrote in that question actually that show there were
several questions that all came together into that pH meter section I wouldn’t have been able to do that if you did not
send in your question so please continue to do that as I’ve mentioned before a
rising tide lifts all boats and thanks so much for those of you that are letting me know that this show is
ushering in that tide that we’re hoping that it will I want to thank everybody for listening to this episode and I look
forward to speaking with you next time on scaling up you
you
you