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0:08.0
0:12.8
welcome to Scaling UP! H2O the podcast
for water treatise by water treaters
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where we’re Scaling UP! on knowledge so
we don’t Scaling UP! our systems
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hello Scaling UP! Nation Trace Blackboard
here your host for Scaling UP! H2O and
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0:32.1
folks I have received so many questions
around this one topic that I thought it
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0:38.2
would be a good idea to do an entire
show on this topic now I know what
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0:41.9
you’re thinking what the heck is this
topic so I’m going to relieve the
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0:47.7
suspense I have received so many
questions around corrosion coupons
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0:52.5
corrosion coupons are one of those
things that we kind of use because
0:52.5
0:57.3
people say we have to use them but many
of us don’t understand what corrosion
0:57.3
1:02.8
coupons are the importance of them and
especially what to do with them when you
1:02.8
1:10.5
get the results folks I know this
because I live this many many years ago
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1:16.1
I remember I was told to use corrosion
coupons by my father and I really didn’t
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1:22.3
know why I just put them in the system
and we got some results and he did
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1:27.7
something with them and I really didn’t
know so I started asking and because I
1:27.7
1:34.0
started asking these questions
I learned that corrosion coupons are one
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1:41.7
of the most cost effective easy tools
for us water treatment folk to use that
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1:48.8
gives us so much information allowing us
to make the system that we are treating
1:48.8
1:55.6
better so I’m going to try to share with
you what I’ve learned over the past 20
1:55.6
2:00.5
plus years about corrosion coupons and
the experiences that I’ve had with
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2:07.0
corrosion coupons so you too will see
that they are a valuable tool now
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2:11.7
several years ago when I started
Blackmore Enterprises I was using
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2:15.7
corrosion coupons because I was taught
to use corrosion coupons and I was
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2:20.6
sending them off to a lab and then I
would get a number
2:20.6
2:25.8
and folks that number it told me
something but there’s so much more in
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2:31.5
the corrosion coupon analysis that can
really tell the professional water
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2:36.3
treater how they can make that system
better and a number just doesn’t do that
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2:42.7
so it was at that point that I decided
that I wanted my own metallurgical lab
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2:48.7
so we could start analyzing corrosion
coupons and when we did that we were
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2:55.1
then able to see firsthand the corrosion
coupons and start developing why things
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3:00.5
happen so we could now take the
corrosion coupon data and immediately
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3:06.1
apply that to the system so I’m gonna
try to share some of that with you today
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3:11.3
but if you’re listening to this show and
you’re wondering what the heck is a
3:11.3
3:15.8
corrosion coupon and you’re a Water
Treaty I want to bring you along through
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3:20.5
this story because you need to be using
corrosion coupons too so quite simply
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3:26.7
corrosion coupons are little pieces of
metal and they can be any metal I did
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3:29.9
have a question come up are the only
types of metals you can get and
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3:34.2
corrosion coupons mild steel and copper
no there are literally thousands of
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3:40.5
alloys that you can get corrosion
coupons out of if they build a piece of
3:40.5
3:45.6
equipment out of a certain type of metal
I promise you can find that same alloy
3:45.6
3:51.4
in a corrosion coupon so quite simply
corrosion coupons are these little slips
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3:58.9
of metal that we put into a system and
they mimic the same type of metal that
3:58.9
4:04.8
we have within the system now the
premise is that if we put the same type
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4:10.5
of metal that the system has in the
system to analyze we can figure out what
4:10.5
4:17.0
the corrosion rates are and then we can
compare that to see if we are doing or
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4:24.0
if the system is doing acceptable or not
acceptable as far as corrosion rates now
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4:31.1
do you use corrosion coupons in all
systems well if you can why not so some
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4:35.7
people will ask you know I’ve got a
schiller I’ve got this expensive piece
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4:39.4
of equipment and I’m using corrosion
coupons and that but then in a
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4:44.3
closed-loop system I don’t use corrosion
coupons n well folks if you are treating
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4:50.0
the water within a system that has metal
in it I’m pretty sure that’s every
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4:55.9
system if you’re not using corrosion
coupons your default is whatever that
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5:00.2
expensive piece of equipment is that
you’re treating that now has become your
5:00.2
5:05.9
corrosion coupon so when that develops a
problem that’s your alert that there is
5:05.9
5:12.1
a problem in the system otherwise you
could use a corrosion coupon and a
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5:16.3
corrosion coupon is a lot cheaper than
that expensive piece of equipment that
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5:22.4
you are treating and on a more proactive
basis you can now see what the corrosion
5:22.4
5:28.2
rates are within the system and again
like I said see if those are acceptable
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5:33.6
or not acceptable the great things about
corrosion coupons is there a shorter
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5:38.6
interval than whenever that equipment
inspection is so you can make slight
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5:44.2
adjustments to your program and see if
your increasing or decreasing the
5:44.2
5:49.4
effectiveness of the system corrosion
coupons are very simple they are pre
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5:55.0
weighed to the ten thousand of a gram
folks if you’re wondering that is four
5:55.0
6:01.3
places after the decimal so we really
want to zero down on exactly what the
6:01.3
6:08.4
weight is when we start we then let that
stay in the system for a certain amount
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6:11.9
of time we’re going to talk about that
in a moment and then we clean them up
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6:16.9
and then we weigh them and then based on
what the results are we’re going to
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6:21.2
change our program or we’re going to
keep doing the exact same program
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6:25.4
because now we have data from the
corrosion coupons so for those of you
6:25.4
6:30.2
that just started listening have no idea
what a corrosion coupon is I hope now
6:30.2
6:36.3
you can see that it is the most
economical way that you can monitor
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6:42.8
corrosion rates within the system so you
can proactively adjust your program
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6:48.1
based on the results of those corrosion
coupons corrosion coupons come in so
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6:54.8
many different shapes sizes alloys you
name it you can find a corrosion coupon
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6:58.7
out there in fact I’m looking at a
catalog where I get most of my corrosion
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7:04.8
coupons and it’s almost an inch thick
and all it is is just a listing of all
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7:09.0
the different corrosion coupons that are
available out there and I am sure that
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7:14.0
that is an abbreviated version now
chances are if you’re a water treaty
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7:19.3
like I am you probably have a couple of
go to corrosion coupons that your
7:19.3
7:23.6
company already has established they
already have inventoried and you can
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7:29.2
just simply ask for them and put them in
your customer systems so you’re gonna
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7:33.8
have basically two primary metals that
you are going to use but if there is a
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7:38.8
different metal in the system that is
what you need to measure we’ll get into
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7:44.5
identifying the different types of
corrosion coupons as we move forward but
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7:48.3
when the coupon is weighed and
everything is said and done it is
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7:55.1
measured in a unit called mils per year
mils per year quite simply put is 1,000
7:55.1
8:01.3
of an inch so if you want to think of
that in these terms a heat exchanger
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8:07.0
let’s say the metal and the heat
exchanger is one tenth of an inch thick
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8:13.7
if you have a corrosion rate of 10 mils
per year it’s gonna take 10 years to
8:13.7
8:19.0
penetrate the walls of that heat
exchanger now that’s not exactly true
8:19.0
8:23.3
and I can throw a bunch of things in
there to say whether that’s will work or
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8:28.4
not but for our definition that’s how
we’re going to look at that so it’s the
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8:33.5
removal of the metal that we are trying
to protect in the system and it’s the
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8:38.8
rate in which it is being removed when
you get a corrosion coupon it is going
8:38.8
8:43.2
to come in an envelope
probably a brown paper envelope and
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8:46.4
you’re gonna look at this you’re going
to say there is nothing special about
8:46.4
8:53.1
this envelope but actually there is one
it houses your corrosion coupon it’s got
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8:58.1
some data on it but it’s also a treated
piece of paper the envelope is treated
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9:02.9
with what we call VC
volatilizing corrosion inhibitors and
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9:07.0
what their purpose is and why they treat
this envelope with these corrosion
9:07.0
9:11.1
inhibitors is we don’t want the
corrosion coupon to start corroding in
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9:14.6
transit we don’t want it to start
corroding when it’s sitting on the Shelf
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9:19.5
getting ready to be used we only want it
to start corroding when we put it in the
9:19.5
9:25.6
system so if you do not have these types
of envelopes please realize that your
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9:30.9
corrosion coupons will start corroding
before they’re in the system
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9:37.2
now the coupons will become marked and
it will have a serial number on them
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9:42.9
they’re stamped right into the corrosion
coupon and then the envelope also has
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9:50.2
that same serial number along with the
envelope has the original weight now
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9:55.5
think about that if we put a corrosion
coupon in the system and it wasn’t
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9:59.1
identified and then we bring it back to
the lab and we’ve got a hundred coupons
9:59.1
10:04.4
that we’ve got to try to identify we
have to use the serial number in order
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10:08.2
to identify them so we have to have the
serial number and then we have to have
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10:13.2
the starting weight other water treaters
have sent corrosion coupons to me
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10:19.4
without the starting weight and then
they get upset that I can’t weigh them
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10:22.8
well I can give you a final weight but
if I don’t know what the starting weight
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10:29.6
is I can’t tell you how much metal lost
between a and B there were and I can’t
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10:33.5
do my math then and I can’t get you a
number so you have to make sure when you
10:33.5
10:39.0
have these envelopes that you take care
of them you store them properly and what
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10:43.9
I mean by that is you do not lose them
we will also have the alloy number and
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10:47.8
there are different types of alloys as I
mentioned so this will have a specific
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10:53.2
alloy that’s there and then it will have
the part number itself and by the part
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10:58.3
number like I said earlier you’re gonna
have a specific length and width and
10:58.3
11:03.3
depth of the coupon you’re gonna have a
specific hole size all of that is
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11:11.2
realized in that part number so once you
know which part number that you need you
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11:15.1
can then simply just keep ordering
those over and over and over again from
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11:20.5
your favorite supplier most of these
envelopes are stamped with information
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11:25.8
that the more information that you put
on that envelope the better somebody
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11:30.1
like me who’s analyzing these coupons
can help you with and they want to know
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11:34.0
the type of chemicals that you’re using
in the system they want to know the date
11:34.0
11:39.3
in and the date out I can’t tell you how
many times I have received corrosion
11:39.3
11:44.0
coupons that did not have this mark
folks corrosion coupons have a couple of
11:44.0
11:49.4
things that we measure one it’s the
weight over a specific amount of time so
11:49.4
11:54.5
how much metal is lost from the
beginning date to the ending date if we
11:54.5
11:59.1
don’t have the starting weight and we
don’t have the date that that coupon was
11:59.1
12:02.7
put into the system and the date that
that coupon was taken out of the system
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12:07.5
we simply can’t measure the coupon I can
tell you how much the coupon weighs
12:07.5
12:13.3
because that is our final step in the
lab but that’s all I can tell you and
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12:17.1
that’s not enough data and that is a
useless coupon so if there is
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12:22.0
information that they’re asking for on
that corrosion coupon envelope the more
12:22.0
12:27.5
that you can fill out the better that
somebody like myself can help you folks
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12:32.7
there are standards that tell us what to
do with corrosion coupons and
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12:39.5
specifically there are two standards
ASTM G 1 and G 4 now G 4 tells us how to
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12:43.2
actually test corrosion coupons in the
field what to do with them how to
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12:49.9
install them all of that stuff the G 1
tells the lab what to do when they get
12:49.9
12:54.1
those back so if you’re interested in
that I’m sure you can find those online
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12:59.3
and NACE even has some practice
procedures there are a couple of other
12:59.3
13:05.4
ASTM guidelines that you can use if
you’re out using a specific type of
13:05.4
13:11.5
coupon and a specific type of industry
but the – I mentioned the g1 and the g4
13:11.5
13:17.4
ASTM are the ones that we water traders
use most in the corrosion coupons that
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13:22.8
we use when you install the corrosion
coupon ideally you want to put these in
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13:28.3
a rack that is specifically designed for
the corrosion coupon and when you look
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13:32.7
up the standards that I just mentioned
it says the order in which the coupons
13:32.7
13:38.1
need to go in it says the orientation
that the coupons need to go in it says
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13:42.5
the amount of flow all of that
information is from those documents but
13:42.5
13:46.9
I do realize that many of us have not
read those documents so I’m gonna try to
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13:53.6
explain a real general approach to what
those documents say so as far as the
13:53.6
13:58.1
corrosion coupons I’m not going to get
into how far apart the corrosion coupons
13:58.1
14:03.6
need to be and the thickness of the
diameter of pipe and then how far the
14:03.6
14:08.2
corrosion coupon needs to be mounted
within that pipe like I said work with a
14:08.2
14:14.0
manufacturer that you’re getting a lot
of your pumps and controllers with now I
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14:18.4
am sure that they have corrosion coupons
holders but when what they’ve done
14:18.4
14:24.3
they’ve manufactured these so you will
get the same results as we were just
14:24.3
14:28.6
referring to in the g4 so things that
they’re gonna be doing is they’re gonna
14:28.6
14:33.3
make sure that we have flow between
three to five feet per second and then
14:33.3
14:37.6
that we have a corrosion coupon rack
that is attacked from the bottom folks
14:37.6
14:43.0
I’ve seen so many orientations of
corrosion coupon holders and just
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14:46.9
realize will you get a result if you
don’t put a corrosion coupon holder
14:46.9
14:52.0
incorrectly or if you don’t even use a
corrosion coupon holder yes you will get
14:52.0
14:58.2
a result but the closer that you can get
to these standards the more variables
14:58.2
15:01.7
you’re going to be taking out of the
equation and we already have so many
15:01.7
15:07.1
variables in our systems that if we can
eliminate one or two or three or four
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15:12.1
we’re going to be that much better with
the data that we are collecting so what
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15:15.8
we want to do is we want to make sure
that the water comes up from the bottom
15:15.8
15:21.3
and out through the top so when you’re
orienting your corrosion coupon holder
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15:24.8
that’s how you want to do that and if
you think about that that makes a lot of
15:24.8
15:29.6
sense because the reason we do that is
we want to purge all the air out of it
15:29.6
15:36.2
then the corrosion coupon is put on a
holder and folks I have seen holders
15:36.2
15:39.6
made out of metal just think about that
if we have a metal coupon
15:39.6
15:44.5
and a dissimilar metal holder well folks
we’ve got electrolysis going on right
15:44.5
15:49.9
there that is not acceptable
so corrosion coupon holders are normally
15:49.9
15:54.4
made out of plastic
definitely the little screw and nut that
15:54.4
15:59.4
holds them in should always be plastic
but like I said I’ve seen corrosion
15:59.4
16:05.0
coupon holder come in it was all PVC the
holder was the rack was and then the nut
16:05.0
16:09.9
and the bolt was actually a galvanized
piece of metal folks you can’t do that
16:09.9
16:15.2
so just just use common sense with that
so when you put them into the system you
16:15.2
16:20.8
want to make sure that they are aligned
properly if they are not perfectly
16:20.8
16:27.4
straight they can touch the side of the
pipes and I gotta tell you when I see a
16:27.4
16:32.6
weird corrosion pattern a weird wear
pattern when they come into the lab I
16:32.6
16:36.9
can tell that those corrosion coupons
were set up against the sidewall of that
16:36.9
16:41.3
pipe and it doesn’t allow for a good
result so make sure you get those
16:41.3
16:47.4
perfectly square and those coupons need
to be oriented perfectly straight up and
16:47.4
16:51.5
down not on the side and if you think
about that that makes sense too because
16:51.5
16:57.8
if we lose flow in the system and we
have a flat side where things can settle
16:57.8
17:02.4
on that can change our corrosion rate so
we want to make sure that those are
17:02.4
17:06.3
straight up and down now there’s a lot
of confusion with corrosion coupons
17:06.3
17:13.5
about what corrosion coupon to put first
and here is the way you should put four
17:13.5
17:18.0
different metals in a corrosion coupon
starting from the bottom and again flows
17:18.0
17:22.1
coming from the bottom going through the
corrosion coupon rack exiting through
17:22.1
17:27.1
the top so you would start with aluminum
you would start with mild steel you
17:27.1
17:31.0
would then put your copper in and then
finally you would put your stainless
17:31.0
17:35.9
steel now for most of you that’s all you
needed to know and you’re probably just
17:35.9
17:39.9
going to be using mild steel and then
copper so you would put the mild steel
17:39.9
17:44.6
in first the flow would hit that go up
hit the copper and then it would go out
17:44.6
17:50.4
of the system and you’re probably happy
just knowing that information now me I
17:50.4
17:56.1
like to know more
information about that and if you were
17:56.1
17:59.4
going to take the certified water
technologist examination this is
17:59.4
18:05.5
something that you need to know one you
need to know that there is a thing out
18:05.5
18:11.8
there called the galvanic series and the
galvanic series tells us how metal will
18:11.8
18:17.8
corrode now the lower down in the
galvanic series it says it’s more noble
18:17.8
18:24.9
meaning that it is not as likely to
corrode as a metal that is above it now
18:24.9
18:31.9
the term we give to the metals on top as
we say that it’s less noble or more
18:31.9
18:36.6
active so hopefully that makes sense the
higher the metal is the more active it
18:36.6
18:41.4
is and we call that less noble the
metals that are on the bottom below the
18:41.4
18:47.1
metals we just talked about those are
going to be more noble or less active
18:47.1
18:52.4
now the way I like to remember this is
Game of Thrones and Game of Thrones is
18:52.4
18:58.2
probably the most talked about show on
this show so many people said that they
18:58.2
19:02.2
watched it when I’ve interviewed them
and definitely I watch it as well well
19:02.2
19:06.1
if you look at it and you look at
nobility all the people that are noble
19:06.1
19:11.0
the Royals all that sort of stuff
they’re not doing any of the work they
19:11.0
19:17.7
are sending their people out there to do
the work so I remember that as more
19:17.7
19:23.2
noble means less active because the more
noble you are you’re probably going to
19:23.2
19:26.8
get somebody that works under you of
course I’m thinking Game of Thrones
19:26.8
19:31.0
contexts to go out and do the work so
the person that comes to mind with this
19:31.0
19:36.5
is Darius Targaryen can you just imagine
her business card now she’s the blonde
19:36.5
19:40.8
that’s on the show and she has the
dragons and all that stuff so I want to
19:40.8
19:43.7
try to get this right and for those of
you that don’t watch the show I’m sure
19:43.7
19:48.1
this is totally useless for you but I’m
gonna try to do this for the fans out
19:48.1
19:53.0
there so here’s her complete title a
Stormborn of the House of Targaryen
19:53.0
19:59.8
first of her name the unburnt queen of
the Andals and first of men Khaleesi of
19:59.8
20:05.3
the great grass sea breaker of chains
and mother of dragons how would you want
20:05.3
20:07.9
that
on your business card well folks if you
20:07.9
20:12.9
just think about nobility and nobility
probably has other things or other
20:12.9
20:18.5
people working for them that’s how I
remember more noble less work lease
20:18.5
20:24.6
noble more work all that said to say is
that’s how we put the corrosion coupons
20:24.6
20:32.5
in the system however we do it in the
line of flow so it’s kind of reversed so
20:32.5
20:37.5
that’s where a lot of people make
mistakes now if you put a copper coupon
20:37.5
20:42.3
in front of a mild steel coupon what
will happen is it will look like you
20:42.3
20:48.7
have two copper coupons when you take
them out of that duration so in order to
20:48.7
20:55.4
prevent that you want to put the most
noble metal last because again it’s
20:55.4
21:00.4
through the line of flow which flips the
whole thing upside down I don’t know if
21:00.4
21:04.5
I kept everybody up with that so but
that’s how I remember it and that’s why
21:04.5
21:08.5
they’re organized another question I get
quite a bit is how long should I keep
21:08.5
21:13.5
corrosion coupons in the system and
folks this is really up to you you can
21:13.5
21:18.9
keep corrosion coupons in as long or as
short of a time as you want but you need
21:18.9
21:24.4
to realize this the longer the corrosion
coupons are in the system the more that
21:24.4
21:29.6
they are going to mimic the system now
here’s what I mean by that the shorter
21:29.6
21:34.3
the corrosion coupons are in the system
the more aggressive that system water is
21:34.3
21:39.4
going to be to that corrosion coupon
because think about it our job is to
21:39.4
21:45.8
corrode the metal in a way where we slow
down the corrosion of that metal we call
21:45.8
21:52.4
that process passivation if we put a
brand new raw corrosion coupon in that
21:52.4
21:58.6
system it does not have the benefit of
having that passive coating on that that
21:58.6
22:04.1
passivation so we are going to get a
more rapid corrosion rate in the first
22:04.1
22:09.2
couple of days of that coupon now if we
only have that coupon in there for 30
22:09.2
22:15.8
days a lot of those 30 days is going to
be indicative of that higher corrosion
22:15.8
22:18.8
rate so if you are only using 30-day
coupons
22:18.8
22:22.0
your corrosion race to be a little bit
higher than they actually are in the
22:22.0
22:27.7
system so how long can you leave
corrosion coupons in the system well
22:27.7
22:32.7
folks you can leave them in as long as
you want to you just have to make sure
22:32.7
22:36.1
that you know the original date that you
put those in there and we can run that
22:36.1
22:41.1
calculation again the longer that they
are in there the more indicative they’re
22:41.1
22:44.9
going to be to the system that you’re
trying to gauge the corrosion rates for
22:44.9
22:51.3
now typically will see timelines of
thirty sixty ninety a hundred and twenty
22:51.3
22:56.6
yearly coupons things such as that and
we’re talking about corrosion coupons
22:56.6
23:00.7
and anything that we’re trying to
improve a program the more data sets
23:00.7
23:07.1
that we have the more opportunities we
have to change the program so here’s
23:07.1
23:11.5
what I like to do I like to do corrosion
coupon racks that will allow me to put
23:11.5
23:16.7
two of the same types of metal in there
so let’s say I’m just doing mild steel
23:16.7
23:22.3
and copper I will have two mild Steel’s
two coppers and on the very first time
23:22.3
23:26.3
that I install those in the system I’m
gonna put two mobsteel’s and two coppers
23:26.3
23:31.4
in that corrosion coupon rack I’m then
gonna come back in 30 days and I’m gonna
23:31.4
23:39.3
remove one mild steel and one copper and
that now is a 30 day exposure I’m going
23:39.3
23:44.5
to replace those two that I just took
out with again mild steel and copper and
23:44.5
23:50.8
then the next 30 days I’m going to come
and I’m going to remove that set that I
23:50.8
23:55.5
put in originally but now it’s been in
the system for 60 days and replace those
23:55.5
24:02.4
and now every 30 days
I now have 60 day results so that gets
24:02.4
24:07.2
me a little bit more accurate and I get
a whole bunch of data points with that
24:07.2
24:11.5
again the more data points that we get
that are accurate within the system the
24:11.5
24:16.5
better we can use these corrosion
coupons to change our program and make
24:16.5
24:21.2
our Elise verify that our program is
working properly now let’s say it’s been
24:21.2
24:26.2
60 days or 30 days or whatever how many
days you want to leave the corrosion
24:26.2
24:31.6
coupons in the system and now it’s time
to take them out and I didn’t mention
24:31.6
24:34.8
this before but
you handle a corrosion coupon you want
24:34.8
24:38.9
to make sure you’re gloved just the
small amount of oils that are on your
24:38.9
24:44.9
fingers will change how that corrosion
coupon will interface with that water
24:44.9
24:48.7
and I can’t tell you how many corrosion
coupons that I’ve received from water
24:48.7
24:54.1
treaters in my lab that I can see your
perfect thumbprint on there well folks
24:54.1
24:59.4
that’s not a good exposure to the water
on the entire corrosion coupon surface
24:59.4
25:04.4
so those aren’t good coupons and the
reason that those happen is because they
25:04.4
25:09.9
did not glove themselves and those oils
transferred from their thumb to the
25:09.9
25:14.1
corrosion coupon so when you take the
corrosion coupon out you also want to
25:14.1
25:19.1
make sure that’s your glove now here’s a
step that a lot of people miss that I
25:19.1
25:23.5
can tell when I get those back in my lab
but there’s nothing I can do about a lot
25:23.5
25:29.4
of people put wet corrosion coupons in
that VCI envelope that brown envelope
25:29.4
25:33.7
that the corrosion coupons came in
originally don’t do this because all
25:33.7
25:38.5
that moisture will continue to corrode
the coupon even though it’s out of the
25:38.5
25:43.3
system and when we get it back at the
lab we can’t tell if that corrosion took
25:43.3
25:48.2
place in the system or when it was in
the envelope so real simple you can take
25:48.2
25:53.8
a paper towel and you simply just dry it
off and only put dry coupons in that
25:53.8
25:58.6
envelope now that you have that dry
coupon that you did not touch in the
25:58.6
26:05.2
envelope take a piece of scotch tape and
seal up the entire back side of that
26:05.2
26:11.2
envelope and that will mean that there
is no air exposure specifically no moist
26:11.2
26:16.1
air exposure that can get into that
envelope or it will continue to corrode
26:16.1
26:21.1
that corrosion coupon that’s been a big
issue of late and what a lot of the
26:21.1
26:25.3
manufacturers have started doing because
we would get corrosion coupons that we
26:25.3
26:29.9
just bought straight from the factory
and it would have signs of corrosion on
26:29.9
26:34.4
them they’re actually now starting to
wrap the corrosion coupons in special
26:34.4
26:39.2
VCI paper and then putting those into
the envelopes that are impregnated with
26:39.2
26:45.5
the volatile corrosion inhibitor the VCI
compound now if you did not fill out all
26:45.5
26:48.8
of the
information on the envelope now is your
26:48.8
26:54.2
opportunity to do that again I need to
know or whoever’s analyzing it needs to
26:54.2
26:59.6
know what the install date was of that
corrosion coupon and what the date was
26:59.6
27:04.2
that you took that out that has to be on
there we have to have the initial
27:04.2
27:09.1
starting weight and then anything else
that you want to share on that envelope
27:09.1
27:15.0
that will give us more information to
analyze that corrosion coupon after the
27:15.0
27:18.6
exposure period is done with the
corrosion coupons that means you put
27:18.6
27:21.6
them in the system you label the
envelope you’ve taken them out the
27:21.6
27:26.0
system you finish labeling the envelope
and now you send them off to a lab and
27:26.0
27:33.8
somebody like me gets them here’s what
happens when they go into a lab so when
27:33.8
27:37.5
we get them we catalog everything so
whatever you send us we make sure that
27:37.5
27:43.1
we take good notes on and we note that
if they are urgent or just regular
27:43.1
27:46.2
coupon runs and if their urgent it means
we’re gonna put those ahead of
27:46.2
27:50.6
everything that we do if they’re just
regular coupon runs then we’re gonna run
27:50.6
27:56.3
those that next time we run all the
coupons in our lab so when we start to
27:56.3
28:01.5
run the coupons that procedure is we
photograph everything so we photograph
28:01.5
28:05.4
the front and the back of the envelopes
they came in if you sent any paperwork
28:05.4
28:11.9
in we go ahead and copy that and then we
take pictures of the corrosion coupons
28:11.9
28:17.9
themselves front and back before they’re
cleaned all the same types of metals
28:17.9
28:22.9
then go into a cleaning process so all
the coppers go through the same batch
28:22.9
28:28.1
together all the mild Steel’s go through
the same process together so we separate
28:28.1
28:33.0
those out and then there’s a two-step
cleaning process that we do when we’ve
28:33.0
28:38.0
got to get all the organics off first
now the g1 standard that I mentioned
28:38.0
28:42.3
earlier tells you how to do all this so
we get all the organics off by putting a
28:42.3
28:46.5
cleaner in to the flask that we’re used
and we put that into an ultrasonic
28:46.5
28:50.9
cleaner and we add a certain amount of
heat to it based on that standard for a
28:50.9
28:56.9
certain amount of time based on that
standard and then we rinse those off and
28:56.9
29:00.0
then we put those coupons now that we’ve
got all the organics
29:00.0
29:05.5
off of them in an inhibited acid what
that inhibited acid is meant to do is to
29:05.5
29:10.9
clean off all the corrosion byproducts
during the exposure period that took
29:10.9
29:15.3
place on that coupon so now we’ve
removed all the byproducts and we just
29:15.3
29:19.3
have bare metal on those coupons now
it’s very specific and how we do that
29:19.3
29:23.4
because we don’t want to remove more
metal than we have to we just want to
29:23.4
29:29.8
get the byproducts off once we get it to
that stage we then dry them I set them
29:29.8
29:35.0
all out flat on our bench and then we
have to use the envelopes that you gave
29:35.0
29:42.2
us to identify the serial number to the
coupon and then we start weighing each
29:42.2
29:49.6
coupon again down to the ten thousandth
of a gram that’s very very specific and
29:49.6
29:54.0
of course that’s not your ordinary scale
these are special metallurgical scales
29:54.0
29:59.2
and then once that’s done we take a
final picture of what that coupon looks
29:59.2
30:05.0
like front and back after it’s cleaned
and then we start doing math we do the
30:05.0
30:10.7
equation to figure out how many mils per
year was lost during that exposure time
30:10.7
30:16.5
and again mils per year is one
thousandth of one inch and then we go
30:16.5
30:22.6
ahead and write our reports and if it’s
a regular HVAC cooling tower or a
30:22.6
30:26.9
process cooling tower chiller or
closed-loop system something like that
30:26.9
30:33.5
the Association of Water Technologies
has a standard guideline that they have
30:33.5
30:38.6
put into the market place to say this is
what is acceptable for mild steel and
30:38.6
30:44.4
copper and I will make sure to have that
on my show notes page so you can see
30:44.4
30:49.3
exactly what that is but I do want to
explain a little bit about how the
30:49.3
30:56.5
analysis works so I’ll tell you what I’m
gonna go into one of the items on the
30:56.5
31:00.3
acceptable non acceptable list those
standards that I was talking about so
31:00.3
31:06.0
let’s talk about mild steel in an
evaporative water type system so
31:06.0
31:12.2
anything less than one mil for is
considered excellent anything that’s
31:12.2
31:16.0
less than three but greater than one
of course would be considered very good
31:16.0
31:21.8
and that goes all the way up to anything
that’s greater than 10 mils per year is
31:21.8
31:26.8
unacceptable and there’s a good range of
fair range and a poor range in between
31:26.8
31:31.1
that so a lot of times I will weigh a
corrosion coupon and let’s say it will
31:31.1
31:37.2
come back as good and that would be a
3.1 mils per year
31:37.2
31:43.8
well now let’s say that corrosion coupon
is pitted well even though it weighed to
31:43.8
31:48.6
where it said it was good pitting is
never good pitting is never acceptable
31:48.6
31:55.5
so when you look at the rates on what is
acceptable and what is not you have to
31:55.5
31:59.9
remember that pitting is never
acceptable now here’s what pitting is
31:59.9
32:04.7
here’s how I like to define pitting to
go back what general corrosion is it’s
32:04.7
32:09.7
the only acceptable corrosion that we
can have within our systems and what
32:09.7
32:14.6
that means is that all of the corrosion
is taking place evenly over the entire
32:14.6
32:22.3
metal surface that’s what these
standards are referring to a pit means a
32:22.3
32:27.9
localized point on that piece of metal
where the entire potential for that
32:27.9
32:33.7
entire surface is taking place in that
one little pin point and that’s called
32:33.7
32:40.7
pitting if you see pitting of any kind
it is not acceptable and typically there
32:40.7
32:45.6
is a reason for pitting it might be how
the coupon has been installed it could
32:45.6
32:50.9
be a flow issue it could be a water
treatment issue but pitting is a sign
32:50.9
32:54.3
that something is going on in the system
and I want to make sure that the Scaling UP!
32:54.3
32:58.8
Nation realizes that even though you
might get back a report that says a
32:58.8
33:06.1
corrosion coupon is good or better it is
never good or better if it has a pit and
33:06.1
33:12.0
it a pit is always a fail so once all
that is done in the lab the person that
33:12.0
33:17.4
sent it in will receive a report and now
you’ve got to take that to the customer
33:17.4
33:23.4
and explain to them what you now know
about corrosion coupons now the first
33:23.4
33:27.1
thing that people want to assume is that
whatever
33:27.1
33:32.1
corrosion has taken place on that
corrosion coupon is uniform through the
33:32.1
33:38.2
entire system and folks what I said at
the top of the show that is not true the
33:38.2
33:43.0
corrosion you are measuring is the
corrosion on that coupon so that’s why
33:43.0
33:48.6
you want to try to mimic that g4
standard as much as you possibly can and
33:48.6
33:53.5
the easiest way to do that is to buy a
pre manufactured corrosion coupon holder
33:53.5
33:59.7
and use it and install it properly just
buying that and utilizing that properly
33:59.7
34:05.2
alone will eliminate five variables that
could play havoc with your corrosion
34:05.2
34:10.3
coupons so now you have to look at
things where is it a issue with the
34:10.3
34:16.0
operation of the system or is it an
issue with my actual water treatment
34:16.0
34:21.3
program or both and then you need to
talk with a customer and if there’s
34:21.3
34:24.8
never any flow on a particular system
now we have all these systems here in
34:24.8
34:29.8
Atlanta where they build out all these
redundancies and they just run one
34:29.8
34:34.3
chiller and then they’ll open up a
chiller and they’ll say this chiller
34:34.3
34:39.4
looks horrible your products are not
working properly to keep the corrosion
34:39.4
34:42.2
down within this chiller and I’ll look
at them and I’ll say you’re exactly
34:42.2
34:45.0
right
we don’t have magic products mr.
34:45.0
34:49.5
customer they’re not going to go into a
system that’s not running you have to
34:49.5
34:54.3
run the system in order for our products
to actually go in there and by the way
34:54.3
35:00.3
we get a lot of calls from customers
that don’t understand that so you want
35:00.3
35:04.2
to make sure that the systems are
running because it is impossible to
35:04.2
35:08.6
treat a system that is not but you’re
looking at all these things and now
35:08.6
35:13.9
you’re going to apply the data that you
got from that corrosion coupon to your
35:13.9
35:19.9
system making a change and then in your
next exposure rate on your next series
35:19.9
35:25.6
of corrosion coupons you will be able to
see what type of an effect you had on
35:25.6
35:33.8
that system again I look at corrosion
coupons as a very inexpensive proactive
35:33.8
35:40.7
approach for us to get more data about
the system that we are treating
35:40.7
35:46.5
I will urge each and every water treater
out there that if you are not using
35:46.5
35:53.2
corrosion coupons to please consider to
start using that because again the only
35:53.2
35:58.7
way you are going to know that a problem
is coming is once a problem is there
35:58.7
36:02.9
there’s no proactivity if you’re not
periodically looking at what your
36:02.9
36:07.5
corrosion rates are now a lot of people
ask me do I prefer corrosion coupons or
36:07.5
36:14.1
do I prefer the electronic corrosion
coupon monitors and of course the more
36:14.1
36:19.8
data sets that you get the better it is
but those are expensive and the only
36:19.8
36:24.5
name I can think of is Kor Reiter that’s
a name brand and the actual systems
36:24.5
36:29.1
itself have a generic name and and I’m
sure I’m gonna get a bunch of calls and
36:29.1
36:31.4
write-ins because I can’t think of it
right now
36:31.4
36:35.8
but whatever that is what it does it
every so many seconds it takes a reading
36:35.8
36:41.4
and calculates that into mils per year
so you can see hundreds if not thousands
36:41.4
36:47.7
of data sets over a day’s time so a lot
of times those could be overkill in a
36:47.7
36:53.2
system that’s working well where I
really like to use that is where we can
36:53.2
36:56.6
do something with it so maybe we’re
trying a new inhibitor or maybe we’re
36:56.6
37:01.3
trying a new biocide and every time that
feeds we can now get real-time data to
37:01.3
37:08.4
what happens on that metal tip based on
that feed so I love to use those for
37:08.4
37:13.0
that and then we have customers that
have very specific pieces of equipment
37:13.0
37:17.3
and they want to know all that data but
I’m going to tell you a secret
37:17.3
37:23.2
I run corrosion coupons even if I have
those core raters and again that’s the
37:23.2
37:27.9
name brand I can’t think of the other
thing in the system because that allows
37:27.9
37:34.4
me to utilize both sets of data to get
more information about the system folks
37:34.4
37:41.6
I hope that this episode has made you
think more about corrosion coupons it is
37:41.6
37:49.6
such an easy tool to use now you know
the entire life of a corrosion coupon so
37:49.6
37:53.4
it’s my hope that you’re gonna start
using these better if you’re not using
37:53.4
37:58.0
you are gonna start using them and when
you send them in to either your lab or
37:58.0
38:04.4
my lab or anybody like me you are going
to get better results because you now
38:04.4
38:08.7
know why we need all that information
and the information that we give you is
38:08.7
38:13.3
now going to make a little bit more
sense now the last question I’ll answer
38:13.3
38:17.0
is what’s the difference between all the
different labs out there that you can
38:17.0
38:20.5
send corrosion coupons to and I’m going
to tell you all the labs out there are
38:20.5
38:27.4
extremely good but my preference is that
I want a water treat on the other end
38:27.4
38:33.8
who understands what to look for in
corrosion coupons so when a corrosion
38:33.8
38:38.3
coupon comes back pitted or has
something else on it there’s some sort
38:38.3
38:43.8
of accelerated corrosion on it we can
ask questions of each other and you can
38:43.8
38:50.9
get good data and good answers to your
questions so you can now do something to
38:50.9
38:57.7
effect that I will tell you that nine
times out of ten installation issues are
38:57.7
39:02.9
what I see when corrosion coupon data
does not come back proper and I already
39:02.9
39:07.3
mentioned it’s not being installed in
the system properly it’s not being the
39:07.3
39:13.4
right order in the system or not handled
properly either when you install them or
39:13.4
39:17.3
when you take them out of the system so
if you can do all of that and then work
39:17.3
39:23.0
with somebody who you can get more than
just a number from that corrosion coupon
39:23.0
39:28.1
from I know that corrosion coupons are
going to make you a better water treater
39:28.1
39:32.1
because you’re gonna have more data
about that system folks I hope you
39:32.1
39:37.7
enjoyed this special corrosion coupon
pinks and blues and the reason that I
39:37.7
39:41.9
did this is I’ve received so many
questions and when I do shows like this
39:41.9
39:47.9
I really get excited because that means
I know I’m talking about what the
39:47.9
39:52.8
Scaling UP! Nation wants me to talk about
and the only way I know that is when you
39:52.8
39:59.5
send in your thoughts and ideas if you
have a thought and idea or a guest for
39:59.5
40:05.9
Scaling UP! H2O please go to Scaling UP! H2O dot com and you can
40:05.9
40:13.9
me a show note idea or if you want a
t-shirt go to Scaling UP! H2O dot com click
40:13.9
40:19.7
on the send voicemail button on the
right side of the page and record your
40:19.7
40:24.0
question if I use your question on the
air I will send you the most awesome
40:24.0
40:28.8
Scaling UP! t-shirt and you can wear that
around your friends and they will of
40:28.8
40:33.1
course say wow what an awesome t-shirt
how did you get that and you can say
40:33.1
40:39.4
well I was on Scaling UP! H2O and that’s
how I got this t-shirt folks keep those
40:39.4
40:44.6
questions and ideas coming and of course
keep listening to Scaling UP! H2O and
40:44.6
40:52.7
I’ll talk to you next week on Scaling UP! H2O