Scaling UP! H2O

264 The One About The Legionella Chill Pill

Legionella Awareness Month, Legionella, Legionnaires Disease, Legionella Bacteria, Legionella Pneumophila Serogroup 1, Legionologist, Pneumonia, Dr. Janet E. Stout, Janet Stout, Infectious Disease Microbiologist, Nation, for the 2nd week of this year’s Legionella Awareness Month, I am bringing back Dr. Janet Stout to talk about what we, as Water Treaters, need to know about Legionella, what’s new in Legionella risk management, ASSE-12080 Certification Training, and many more. Buckle your seatbelts because this is going to be one groundbreaking conversation!

Dr. Janet E. Stout is the Executive Vice President and founder of Special Pathogens Laboratory, A Pace laboratory. She is also a research associate professor at the University of Pittsburgh Swanson School of Engineering in the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering. Dr. Stout is a globally-recognized infection disease microbiologist sought out for her seminal discoveries and pioneering research in Legionella. Her expertise includes prevention and control strategies for Legionnaires’ Disease in building water systems.

In more than 30 years that Dr. Stout has been doing research, her research has been published in peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals. She has also authored textbook chapters on Legionella and Legionnaires’ Disease, one of which is the Legionella chapter in the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology (APIC) Text. Dr. Stout also assisted in developing the first Legionella prevention guideline in the United States (published in 1993). It has continued to serve as a framework for future national and global health agencies and organizations. 

Dr. Stout currently serves on the ASHRAE Legionella Standard Committee Guideline 12 and the Committee for ANSI/ ASHRAE Standard 188-2015, Legionellosis: Risk Management for Building Water Systems, which was the first US standard for Legionella risk management. Special Pathogens Laboratory, together with the American Society of Sanitary Engineers (ASSE) and the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials (IAPMO) created the first certification for Legionella risk management, ASSE-12080, and Dr. Stout is the first certified instructor of the ASSE-12080 Legionella Water Safety and Management Specialist Certification Training.

Bottom line: Dr. Janet E. Stout will share with us what water treaters need to know about Legionella. 

Your roadside friend, as you travel from client to client. 




Continuing the celebration of Legionella Awareness Month and other events in Water Treatment [01:29]

Thinking On Water With James [06:02] 

Welcoming back Legionella Expert, Dr. Janet E. Stout [07:40]

Integrating ASHRAE 188 with Public Health Law and how to stay on top of Legislation [11:27]

Helping Water Treaters know what they need to know about Legionella [17:03]

What is the ASSE-12080 Certification process and who should take the class? [24:12]

What is new in Legionella Testing? [27:43]

What do we need to know about  Percent of Positivity and Legionnaires Disease? [32:05]]

Legionella sterilization vs. disinfection  [34:00]

What did we learn when buildings reopened after the COVID shutdown? [39:15]

Helping Organizations through the Entrepreneurial Operating System, Masterminds, and by having an assistant  [41:24]

Say “Hello” to Janet and her team at AWT! [50:30]

Lightning round questions [52:35]


Thinking On Water With James:

In this week’s episode, we’re thinking about corrosion coupons. Do you use corrosion coupons in all of your accounts? Why or why not? Do you use pretreated or pre-stressed coupons? Why or why not? Why should you avoid touching fresh, new coupons with your fingers when installing? Do you consider the orientation of the coupons when installing them? Do you install them so the flat side is vertical or horizontal or have you never thought of this? We’ve previously thought about the order of the coupons but now’s another good time to think about that, too. How many days do you leave them in the system? What would be the impact of removing them sooner rather than later? What can be determined by visually observing the corrosion coupons upon removal? How do you communicate the results? Do you save the old ones for annual reviews, take a picture or scan, or dispose of them? Take this week to think about corrosion coupons and how to most effectively use them. 



“Everyone needs to be aware that ASHRAE Standard 188-2018 and Guideline 12-2020 are in continuous maintenance.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“Standard 514P is a new proposed standard from ASHRAE.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“There is a real need for input from people in Water Treatment to comment on Legionella standards.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“If any facility should be testing for Legionella, it should be healthcare.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“When it comes to Legionella, any gaps in knowledge need to be filled, so I worked to make education standards for Legionella.”  – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“We (Special Pathogens Lab) stepped into the role of one of the first instructors to deliver training so people could sit for the certification exam and get the credential as a Certified Legionella Water Safety and Management Specialist.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“When you are doing Water Management, you’re using testing for Legionella to validate that the plan is working.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

Percent of Positivity: If more than 3 out of 10 faucets or showers are positive for Legionella (in a hospital), we would see a Legionnaires Disease Case.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“You can’t completely eliminate Legionella, whether it’s from a cooling tower or a potable water distribution system. You can knock it down, you can hold it down with water treatment, but you can’t eliminate it.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“Sterilization is impossible when it comes to Legionella. Disinfection will be dependent on the type of system you are treating.” – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“We’re not asking people to get to zero Legionella, we’re asking people to get zero cases of Legionnaires Disease.  – Dr. Janet E. Stout

“It’s not happiness that brings gratitude, it’s gratitude that brings happiness.” – Unknown


Connect with Dr. Janet E. Stout:

Phone: 877-775-7284


LinkedIn: company/special-pathogens-laboratory



Become a Professional Certified Legionella Water Safety & Management Specialist

Puzzled by Legionella Webinars

Buy Special Pathogens Lab’s ​​Puzzled by Legionella Guidebook


Visit our Scaling UP! H2O Legionella Resources Page:

Legionella Resources


Links Mentioned:   

Bill Pearson

Sign up for ASHRAE Standards Actions

Seinfeld (American Sitcom)

Special Pathogens Lab – Legionella Water Safety & Management Specialist Certification

Special Pathogens Lab – Puzzled by Legionella Webinars

Submit a Show Idea

The Rising Tide Mastermind


Check out all future water events on our Scaling UP! Events Calendar

Go to to see our 2022 water events calendar


Events Mentioned: 

One Water Summit 2022 – September 12 to 15 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin 

AWT Business Owners Meeting –  September 20, 2022, in Vancouver, Canada

2022 AWT’s Annual Convention and Exposition – September 21 to 24 in Vancouver, Canada 

International Desalination Association World Congress – October 9 to 13 in Sydney, Australia 


Books Mentioned:

Puzzled by Legionella Guidebook by Janet E. Stout

The Power of Nice: How to Conquer the Business World With Kindness by Linda Kaplan Thaler and Robin Koval

Water Treatment education

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